Book on the current Secession movement (and Sarah Palin)
Adam Parfrey publisher of Feral House Press says: Know how Sarah Palin is accused of being a Secessionist, as part of the Alaskan Independence Party?
Secession: How Vermont and All the Other States Can Save Themselves from the EmpireFeral House recently published the primary (and only) book of the current Secession movement, Thomas A. Naylor and Kirkpatrick Sale's Secession: How Vermont and All the Other States Can Save Themselves from the Empire.
Naylor is the founder of the Second Vermont Republic.
Kirk Sale is founder of the Middlebury Institute. Also see this YouTube vid.
Lynette Clark, Chairman of AIP, and her husband, Dexter Clark, say that Sarah Palin was a Secessionist in the mid-90s, and attendee to meetings and such, and that her husband was an ongoing member until 2002. The McCain people protest that Sarah Palin was never really a full-flredged member of AIP, but just the past few months made a vid supporting AIP ...
Thomas Naylor's part of the Secession movement is a leftist concept, and other states hold libertarian, and sometimes rightist ideas, such as the Alaskans. The idea of the movement is an anti-Globalist, anti-Empire "Divided We Stand"...
the latest
latest episodes
What America (and the whole world) needs is a re-invigorated Texan secession movement. I'm sure millions around the world would love to contribute.
This and the above comment are actually from dragonfrog - I didn't notice AGF was logged in.
In re: the reference to Sarah Palin:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
More clarity is seriously needed on this woman.
I'm really fed up with seeing election politics on BoingBoing. I don't come here for politics; There are tons of sites that do that many orders of magnitude better.
BoingBoing is great at neat, cool, and quirky oddities, with a little bit of pop culture bits thrown in. Keep that up, you're doing great.
Spare me the ad nauseum "Obama forgot to tie his shoelaces" and "McCain doesn't know how many toilets he has."
I'd rather see more articles of substance than just parroting every bit of information that crops up about Obama,McCain,Biden and Palin.
The vintage boombox with a built-in organ was awesome. I like seeing stuff like that. I filtered out all election politics from my Digg viewing selection because every other article on the front page was election politics or smear; If you're going to continue dumping election articles on your front page, please give me the option to ignore them. Lifehacker does a good job with this by allowing you to ignore certain tags.
Who knows, maybe I'll write a GreaseMonkey script to just hide all of the articles that have election content in them.
@#3 HereticGestalt
+1 point of win.
Yeesh! That factcheck link is as weaselly as anything else I've read. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is unbiased these days.
Regarding politics on BoingBoing: Sorry. Politics and technology go hand in hand these days. If you don't like it, I'd recommend something blander. Try Gizmodo.
@#7:
BoingBoing isn't a Tech blog, Tommy.
Lightning,
my guess is that BB is posting the politics in order to create a dialogue within its community-a positive gesture. I understand how people get sore over politics and religion; those are two topics getting a lot of time here right now, and no one totally agrees on anything in those areas. Personally, I have issues with the way some folks defend their views. However, as stated, I think this is an attempt to bring about discourse, and possibly further define the community. I notice that all of your comment history is negative except for one, which has a barb within. What's up with that?
LightningCrash:
"Sensitivity is for wireless equipment."
Lightning just gots self-pwn3d!!! Nice, MDH!
#9 Anthony,
I wholeheartedly agree with LightningCrash's opinion that Politics don't do well here on BB, but beyond that, I am astounded by two points:
1. Whether or not I agree with LC's position, I alwas thought that BB was one of the more free places on the tubes, and I would always welcome such coherent and thoughtful comments
2. You seem to disagree with Lightning (which is fine), but then you go on to accuse LC of negativity within the SAME SENTENCE as your claim that BB is an attempt to "bring about discourse". In short, you attack the messenger while staying pious to the ideal of an open discussion. What's up with that?
(yes, I realize the irony of doing the same myself. Hypocracy-flavoured ice cream for everyone!)
I brought up LC's negativity because it impedes constructive dialogue. Criticism is one thing, but complaining or posting derisive attacks is never helpful, no matter the core sentiment. I was neither complaining nor being derisive, only pointing out a pattern of LC's that will hopefully change.
.
DaveJenk1ns @12 - I think politics do well here on BB, but I'm pretty sure this particular ship isn't a democrrratic institution. Fend for yarrrrself matey!
I believe there is a notable US precedent for how to deal with secessionist movements.
I would not care to be in a state which was on the receiving end of it. Marching Through Vermont, anyone?
I was hoping to get a nice discussion about secession in general, not just election politics. Alaska is way too used to soaking federal largess to make it realistic, never mind having such a sparse population, with so much resource abundance right next to Russia. Maybe if they joined Canada. Personally, I'd rather join Switzerland, something to be said for 700+ years of peace(I've always wondered why countries looking to rebuild themselves never look to that model).
Ths s dbnkd. Y gys r gttng wk wth dsprtn. Tk dp brth nd rg th sss -- lk dlts.
@Lightning, Dave Jenkins:
I'm pretty sure BoingBoing is a blog about whatever Cory &co find interesting, important, or worth showing to and talking about with people at the moment. Like Stumble with a "Doctorow filter". If you don't like the output of =BB(Internet); anymore, stop reading.
Exceeding the bounds of the apologetic, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the increasingly political bent of BoingBoing is a very good thing. If it is nothing else, BB is certainly a geek blog. And honestly, the mixed and low-impact geek program of apathy, armchair criticism, flamewars, head-shaking, figuring out a new censorware or DRM workaround, and at best some occasional organized hacktivism, is not particularly impressive or adequate.
As a group, we are smart, multi-talented, well-educated, opinionated, scitech-savvy, and immersed in the cultures of technology and several varieties of social margin. Though argument is frequent and severe, there are hugely important positions and issues that people around here can form a lot of consensus on, not to mention knowledge about.
Basically, anything that acts to realize all that potential power, to influence politics and to make "geek" contributions to the policy environment and public dialogue, is fine with me.
"Exceeding the bounds of the apologetic, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the increasingly political bent of BoingBoing is a very good thing. If it is nothing else, BB is certainly a geek blog."
WHAT! No one told me this was a Geek blog, I thought this was the "Greek" blog.....Spanokopita anyone?
Seriously though, politics affect us all and know no boundaries. It only stands to reason that it would find it's way here. If it didn't, that would mean we all had our heads in the sand.
Troy - citation...?
Are they hoping something happens to McCain?
http://www.cafepress.com/palinprez
I was inducted into the Oddfellows Lodge in Waxahatchie Texas. As part of the ceremony they put a "hoodwink" on you, which is a metaphoric pair of glasses with darkened lenses. When you're almost through with the initiation ritual, the blinded lenses are lifted up so one is able to see, kind of like Plato's Cave.
Personally, I don't care for partisan politicking because the end goal gets in the way of truth.
That said, some form of politics affects everything one does, including playing on the internet, copyright laws, depositing money in the bank, paying taxes, eating food delivered from Costa Rica, purchasing toys made in China, buying gas from the Middle East... all politics. Choosing to ignore politics is also a political choice -- an extreme and ignorant political choice.
Boing Boing gives you a lot of great info about our culture, and does so while opening the hoodwink usually swept under the carpet. Secession is an excellent issue to dive into, as it affects all beliefs and contexts.
Dang, she's a secessionist? & here I thought I was clear against 'er.
Yeah, the blog is for whatever interests the bloggers. Palin information is sufficiently weird to be entertaining.
Now if she was part of the Vienna Secession, that would be cool.
I'd rather join Switzerland, something to be said for 700+ years of peace (I've always wondered why countries looking to rebuild themselves never look to that model)
That's a pretty terrible example, given that Switzerland had its own secession-driven civil war in the 1840s.
Though really, I'm a bit stunned that people bring up the American Civil War in the context of modern-day discussions of secession. Seriously, if a state voted democratically to leave the United States in the year 2009, and called on the federal government to open negotiations leading to independence, armed force would be on the agenda?
Think the US has a low rating in the world now? I shudder to think what it would be if the army in were sent in, or even if the federales set unreasonable terms for the state to leave. About the only way it would run otherwise would be for the putative country to make the same mistake as the Confederate States: declare unilateral independence effective immediately, and threaten to back it up with war and/or disorder.
Reminds me of my college days, when I was foreign minister of the People's Republic of 1319 S. Newberry St.
Just logged in to say I just left Vermont a couple days ago, from Saint Albans down through Brattleboro.
It is a breathtaking, beautiful state; mountains all over, fine, clear air. You can actually smell the forest at times, and maybe see the occasional eagle floating overhead. Moose and bear are relatively common, and they seem to have achieved something as close to peace with the intrusive humans as any animals could be expected.
Yes, I bought syrup during my visit, as well.
When one experiences such soul-calming splendor, it's easy to see why some people there would want to protect it by seceding from the union. But I just can't see how it would help Vermont. There aren't really enough people there to pay for all the public facilities maintenance, are there? What about military issues? What about trade with the US and Canada? Monitoring the borders becomes a big issue when you're a sovereign link between two huge consumers of illicit drugs and such.
I think it's best if Vermont stays with us for awhile.
True, Vermont wouldn't be as good a police state as the Disunited States of America.
#5, it's pretty ironic that you call for only pop culture articles and more articles like the boombox-organ instead of political articles and claim that we need more substance. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy our wonderful things(™/CC) as much as anyone else here, but I think it's the political articles that would normally be considered substance, not the shiny objects.
Easy answer: Vermont petitions to become a part of Canada.
It would divide the Anglosphere by pitting the USA against Commonwealth countries. The "global media" (NewsCorp, CNN, BBC) would no longer act as an echo-chamber for Washington and world-opinion shaper to the extent it does now. Perhaps Spanish or Chinese news services could fill some of that void.
Could even help bring down NAFTA...
Thanks for posting this Mark. As someone who has lived in states that had a secessionist party presence, I have always been curious how they propose being independent, specifically when it comes to the economy and infrastructure (though admittedly not so much that I have gone out to research it yet). I look forward to reading this.
Actaully I'm sure Canwest would love to fill that communications "void"...
I wonder if the west coast could get some of that Canadian action; WA, OR, and CA? It would be like Canada was hung like a horse! A big, extremely profitable, left-leaning penis. Oh, Canada!
Vermont petitions to become a part of Canada.
The name is already French! Perhaps the Quebecois would be interested in a zhoint venschure?
"The name is already French! Perhaps the Quebecois would be interested in a zhoint venschure?"
But what if Quebec secedes? Would Vermont become a detached province like...Alaska?!?!
Damn, I missed some obvious facts! I could have sworn I'd checked them all with the great, always true Wikipedia years ago! And yet, there it is less than a third of the way down the page.
@25- Bear with me now, and see how this goes-- first, US legal precedent does say that once a state joins up, they're essentially stuck forever as part of the US.
Now, if Vermont votes otherwise, good on 'em...until they try and do something about it. At which point chances are it'll just be the FBI who go in and arrest the governor and whatever members of the legislature seem to be in violation of the law. How much things escalate from there depends on how much resistance is put up to the arrests, I imagine.
Down here in Texas you still see bumper stickers to SECEDE with the Texas flag adorning them, usually on an ol' rusty pick up truck. At least Texas was at one time a republic unto itself, so it almost makes sense, but not quite. Lately I have wanted to see blue Austin secede from the rest of the red state, but that ain't gonna happen 'til we bring back unicorns.
Then you see the dubya sticker on the same truck. Most of these same folks seem to value the 2nd amendment over the 1st, which shows you their sense of priorities. I've got an idea. Maybe we should bring back the Constitution and restore the Bill of Rights in its entirety? -It being the true framework that binds us. I find it ironic that the people in power who fucked up the country we had seem to be the folks that want to split away the most. (The people that want little government have embiggened it to cromulent proportions.) 'Tis a shameful paradox.
#25 "Seriously, if a state voted democratically to leave the United States in the year 2009, and called on the federal government to open negotiations leading to independence, armed force would be on the agenda?"
In a heartbeat.
Just dropped in to note that people considering secession should take a note from the awesome Scottish National Party, which is currently in government here in Scotland, and of which I am a proud member.
It takes
1) lots of popular support
2) a workable economic plan (lots of smart folks working on that)
3) way to support yourself (oil is a big help here)
@#MDH:
Ah, yes, MDH. A person even more bitter than myself. The dark side is strong within this one.
Texas' state constitution IIRC allows them to secede, or at least contemplates such a step, and the terms upon which it joined the United States may also allow for such, again, IIRC. Texas is weird, constitutionally.
After Washington's thumbs-up to Kosovo's succession I do not think they could now use force if a majority of a State votes to secede. The recog of K's independence was an awful precedent IMO, and will come back to bite you in the ass...eg Abkhazia, South Ossetia...looks like the neo-cons as always want it both ways, like eg torture. (IE We can do it but for you it's the death penalty).
As to the chorus from the right about BB becoming too "political", what did they think all the Copyfight stuff is? Recreational? No, it's as political as it gets.
Also, IIRC long ago one of the BB'ers got the old "Tell us who your friends are" from the TSA.
I think the US neo-con government is getting too "fine-grained" as to individual people's politics, if you ask me.
Of course Bob Woodward says they have some tech to find track and kill insurgents, wonder if parts of that very secret program could be politically useful in the domestic sphere. Not the kill but the intel part.
And BB's politics are open, not secretly inserted into TV sitcom/drama scripts, like your government has done in the recent past.
What would Abraham Lincoln Do?
As to the chorus from the right about BB becoming too "political", what did they think all the Copyfight stuff is? Recreational?
----
I always thought it was lobbying for the Consumer Electronics Association.
@33, the name is FAKE French. If Vermont wanted to join Canada, it would have to change its name to the grammatically correct "Le mont vert".
Oh, Kay.
Hmm, I think the post fits BB when it allows us a glimpse into a possible US where Palin, wearing a republican disguise, undermines the union and helps the secession of half the country.
As the Ugly person above said, copyrights and security stuff are political, but we might as well argue about steampunk and so on...
If replying to this post use the following format:
I do not concour but I fear you.
Alaska is part of Russia and this has been foretold in Red Dawn:
Col. Andy Tanner: Or maybe somebody just forget what it was like.
Jed Eckert: ...Well, who *is* on our side?
Col. Andy Tanner: Six hundred million screaming Chinamen.
Darryl Bates: Last I heard, there were a billion screaming Chinamen.
Col. Andy Tanner: There *were*.
[he throws whiskey on the fire; it ignites violently, suggesting a nuclear explosion]
What exactly is wrong with secession?
Shouldn't participation in a union be voluntary?
Why are secessionist beliefs, in the USA, portrayed as a bunch of nutters?
There's a strong inclination among "the Left" and mass-media to want to portray Palin as, essentially, "a bad person" -- character assassination -- for a variety of reasons. Now, of course, I think her proposed policies are complete garbage, but the focus on her as a person demonstrates a strong desire to enter the "silly season" of politics in the USA Presidential election process.
p.s. What's up with that GOP ad against Obama saying "him and other out of touch politicians" showing the face of Senator Chris Dodd? (You know, the only guy to stand up against amnesty for telecoms -- something even Obama was too chickenshit to do.)
She is a member of the AIP.....have you seen the video?
Why is secession from the US assumed to be ultra rightist? There is a low intensity movement in the Pacific Northwest for secessin into the nation of Cascadia that is mostly a idealist leftist and libertarian movement, I assumed that the Alaska movement was more of the same. Unfortunately a libertarian is often attacked by the X-wingers from both sides of the political spectrum for being from the enemy camp.
In the US it is assumed to be far right because of the racists in the South. Also, this Palin chick has roots in northern Idaho, a bastion of White Supremacy.
Secession? Do people actually want another shooting war which will inevitably lead to more oppression and laws regarding interstate travel which make it even harder for us to live our daily lives?
Washington is the problem. The answer is not for the states to run away, but for us to all band together and march on Washington and overthrow the government.
Or we could just sit here and let them push us around some more. Whatever. Can it wait until Apple's special iPod event though?
sirspocksalot:
Washington is the problem. The answer is ... for us to all band together and march on Washington and overthrow the government.
At last, a GREAT idea on BB. I'll lock and load for both of us if you'll push my wheelchair when the batteries run down.
As a New Mexican, my thoughts on secession have always been mixed. I think the US could do with less Texas, but I'm not sure if my state would be able to repeat our success at Glorietta pass again. On the other hand, if New Mexico were to leave the US we'd have the third largest nuclear stockpile in the world, and without delivery systems we'd really just make our way by selling nukes to the highest bidders.
Really, though, my state only has political significance because of the massive amount of federal money that has been poured into the labs here, and because of the military bases that bolster both population and economy. Without either, we'd more or less collapse.
Quoth Mojave @51, "this Palin chick has roots in northern Idaho, a bastion of White Supremacy."
Even though I'm not particularly in love with the red state I've lived in since 2000, and although I'd rather kiss a wookiee than vote for McCain/Palin, I do feel compelled to point out that the racist nutters who infested northern Idaho in the 80s and 90s were largely from elsewhere; they came to Idaho because they hoped to create a white supremacist (and eventually secessionist) zone in the Pacific northwest. True, they came to Idaho because its population was mostly white at the time, but they were vigorously opposed by most of the locals. This is not to say that Idaho is a land of Kubayah-singing Unitarians (though we have delightful pockets of such folk, too), but the barking-mad organized racists were not homegrown.
Now, if you don't mind, I need to go check the barbed wire fence around my compound...
"p.s. What's up with that GOP ad against Obama saying "him and other out of touch politicians" showing the face of Senator Chris Dodd? (You know, the only guy to stand up against amnesty for telecoms -- something even Obama was too chickenshit to do.)"
It's called the whitewashing of American opinion. Another word for it is brainwashing. They feel that since they control the media, they can tell us what to think, and therefore who is in our out of touch. Take a look at this obscenity, coming soon to a theater near you. Have a bag ready to vomit in.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
#7 posted by Tommy:
Yeesh! That factcheck link is as weaselly as anything else I've read. Nothing, absolutely nothing, is unbiased these days.
You're right, that factcheck information was extremely weaselly. They say things like "no books were actually banned" - implying that Palin never asked for books to be banned. In the story I heard, she asked for them to be banned, and the librarian flatly refused. In other words, no books were banned *because* the librarian refused to comply with Palin's request (and was subsequently fired because of it and rehired after a community backlash against Palin). They are obviously stringing together some of the facts and then constructing a fake narrative that makes Palin sound completely innocent.
I guess any organization that has any power to report the facts to the people will become a target for take-over by the organizations they're reporting on. I remember Scientology doing the same with with the Cult Awareness Network - suing them into bankruptcy, buying their name afterwards, and and then reporting favorably about Scientology under the CAN label.
Thought I'd bring back this from the last election:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/b/b7/Jesusland6.gif/300px-Jesusland6.gif
Buddy: sounds good. Oh, and welcome to the government's no-fly list. ;)
I would like Texas to secede as well:
http://www.anus.com/etc/texas
We're pulling hard for it.