Murky Coffee's owner responds to espresso-over-ice kerfuffle
Here's an excerpt from lengthy and interesting response from Nick Cho, the owner of Murky Coffee:
The customer in question, when told that it's our policy NOT to offer "espresso over ice," got angry right away. Regardless of how you feel about the merits of our policy, the fact that he got angry (in my opinion) is the crux of the matter. There are things in life to get angry about. There are matters that demand an elevated heart rate. This is not one of them.BY the way, Nick runs a great coffee podcast, called The Portafilter. Murky Coffee Follow UpThe other thing that's worth mentioning is that David, the barista in question, contrary to what many seem to believe, was NOT voicing his objection to the espresso over ice per se. He was admonishing him for his poor behavior toward the barista at the register, and toward our policy. Many have written me saying, "Once it's in the customer's hands, it's out of your hands." That's absolutely true. David was telling the customer that it wasn't okay that he'd act-out to the staff the way he was. As in the guy's own blog-recounting of the incident, David was interrupted before he could finish, and Mr. Simmermon proceeded to mock David, then following it up with the infamous dollar-bill.
The guy admitted on his own blog that he "acted like a total dick here." He also writes, "But it's not like I didn't have probable cause." I'd hope that something like a coffeeshop policy about what we do or don't offer doesn't constitute "probable cause" for this sort of behavior.
the latest
latest episodes
I have to agree with the owner here. After hearing both sides of the story, it seems like the customer was out of line. As a former barista, I know how crazy customers can get when they discover you don't serve frappuccinos or whatever.
Sounds like murky is trying to spin it so they dont look like elitist @$$holes. C'mon, really..."I know how you want your coffee better than you do"? That's pretty arrogant.
I just want to point out that Murky Coffee is pretty damn rad. If you have the misfortune of being in the DC area, it certainly is worth checking out.
~~~
Of course, the owner's suppliers would seem to strongly disagree with Nick's "knowledge" about iced espresso ruining the drink.
So he's pretentious AND doesn't know what he's talking about? Hell, if he at least was CORRECT it wouldn't be quite so stupid.
http://www.counterculturecoffee.com/docs/Imbibe_icedcoffee_2008.pdf
There are matters that demand an elevated heart rate. This is not one of them.
I thought that for most people caffeine does demand an elevated heart rate.
If someone tells me they won't serve me something because it "ruins the flavor" to do it that way, I tell them to fuck right off too. Generally I don't give them my money thereafter, but I can see the problem with there not being another coffee shop around.
If they think it ruins the flavor, that's fine, but maybe I don't. Maybe I have a different set of taste buds that respond to flavors differently than theirs. If they think it'll taste bad, they can warn me and I'll take my chances.
If I go into a burger joint and want my burger without onions, I've never had a problem getting it that way. The proprietor of the joint may believe that onions enhance the flavor of his burgers, and he may not like that I don't enjoy the taste, but he keeps his opinions to himself.
The more I think about this, and the more I read about both sides of the story, the more I start to believe that this wasn't such a case of being concerned for the flavor of their coffee, or their customers' overall satisfaction with their products. It has to do with the barista probably thinking he was trying to make a ghetto iced latte, then realizing he wasn't but not admitting to it, then the whole thing got out of hand. Nick Cho said himself that he always stands behind his employees. That's cool for his employees, but sometimes you have to be able to see the whole situation for what it is, not just what your employee says happened. That's the mark of a good manager.
From the original ranter (seems quite accurate too): "You know, I was pretty much over this. For real. Then somebody emailed me a link to the owner of Murky Coffee’s public response. All I’m saying is, if you were wondering where this barista’s attitude came from, wonder no longer. It looks like it’s learned behavior from the top down."
What ever happened to the shit-eating grin as a tool for peace and harmony? What next? A surge and a staged withdrawal from Murky Coffee?
The fact is, if it's store policy not to do something, even if the reason for the policy is insipid, then you really don't have any call for getting pissed at the coffee jerk for following policy.
At least get mad at the person who made the policy.
"Murky Coffee: Telling you what you're allowed to drink, and how you're allowed to feel about it since 2002."
Should the coffee joint have given him the drink as he asked? Probably. Should the customer have been an asshole? most definitely not. Hells bells could he have just ordered a 3 espresso and a cup of ice? Then performed the operation himself?
why do we even have coffee shops? Are there not vending machines?
There are matters that deserve coverage. This is not one of them.
Anything about coffee is worth covering, even nitwits fighting over it.
they a have a programme for people like you you know
Caffeine Addiction Is a Mental Disorder, Doctors Say
George Studeville
for National Geographic Magazine
January 19, 2005
I just read the coverage in the Washington Post, and am thinking the owner of Murky is a bit of a control freak..
"He also said some customers have the audacity to order an espresso over ice, then fill the glass with milk at the dairy bar -- creating their own iced latte, at a significant saving."
"No modifications to the Classic Cappuccino. No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it). No espresso in a to-go cup. No espresso over ice. These are our policies. We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them."
Dude.
Caffeine Causes Calls To Poison Control
Doctors Point To Energy Drinks, Caffeine Added To Unexpected Products
POSTED: 4:17 pm CDT July 11, 2008
Regardless of whether the barista was speaking about Simmermon's attitude or his impending impending espresso violation, I'm not a fan of lectures from my barista.
Moral of the story? If you're dealing with a customer who's a dick, it's not going to help anything by trying to teach him manners.
@Ceronomus - actually, the document you link talks about the fragility of making coffee over ice right. Although, I think they advocate making it straight over ice.
However, I don't really see why everyone is so damn uppity about this. Murky Coffee is a place run by fanatics. They keep track of the specific region their coffee is coming from. They put way more care into their product than just about any coffee shop I've been to.
If they want to be a bit crazy about how they will or won't serve their coffee, that's OK with me if it's the tradeoff between fantastic coffee and the ordinary swill that we deal with.
Of course, I'm also biased because I've had nothing but pleasant experiences at Murky.
~~~
The real cost of coffee
Updated 01 May 2003, 17.08
Coffee beans
Demand for cheap coffee threatens rhinos, elephants and tigers according to the Wildlife Conservation Society .
"Wednesday, March 09, 2005
On Slavery and Coffee
I came across this excellent though horrifying article in The Economist on the slavery that still exists in the world today. No, I don't mean "economic slavery" or "social slavery" or any other form of unfortunate position that relativistic academics and social activists try to equate with slavery. I mean the real thing - as in bondage, work without any pay. "
Rule #1 there is never a good reason for being a dick over a cup of coffee. If your that high and mighty a consumer, then don't be a coward, turn around and walk out. Don't be a cowardly dick and still give these people money, ruining your day and ruining theirs.
Rule #2 There are two sides to a story and both of them are usually wrong... see any Consumerist post. Never let facts get in the way of making you the hero of a story where you, in a daring act of bravery, told off baristas... Oh gasp what next? Telling the 7-Eleven guy how to make a Slurpee correctly?
Evil Coffee
is the scourge of modern womanhood says
Ezra Franklin Stockley, M.D.
Click here if you haven't read the shocking introduction to this horrific pamplet!
The modern evil of coffee drinking is the root cause of all the terrible woes that threaten the very foundations of all that we hold most dear. Once upon a time, families would come together every day to exchange news and pleasantries over a refreshing cup of tea, or to toast a muffin or two in cook's oven, while the master of the house instructed the female servants in the finer points of oral diction. They would talk to one another about their day at the schoolhouse, the office, and for the ladies of the family, how they had cleaned and tended the house that day. Nowadays however, such stimulating and refined intercourse has all but disappeared from our Great Nation. Instead we have broody young girls skulking in their rooms, drinking coffee behind closed doors.
I don't like the rudeness to the staff. I do like iced coffee.
The thing about iced coffee is, it doesn't ruin the flavor for the next customer. I am a bit of a coffee elitist. I don't frequent coffee shops that sell a lot of flavored-bean coffee. That stuff is very smelly and coffee absorbs odors with all the gusto of that box of baking soda in the back of your fridge.
In fact, my long-standing rule of thumb for selecting coffee shops is this: if the selection of coffees reads like an ice cream parlor flavor list, beat feet! If it reads like the departure destinations at in international airport, stick around and try the brew.
But using ice doesn't contaminate the next customers drink, so even if it is not listed on the menu, to refuse the customer request is a silly pretension.
Rudeness is NOT cool, not kind, nor is arrogance. Stupidity is frustrating though. And some days when you've had to deal with a dozen different kinds of stupidity, and you just want an iced coffee to cool off and soothe your pounding head, this sort of thing could push you over the edge a little bit.
if the selection of coffees reads like an ice cream parlor flavor list, beat feet!
Bars work the same way. There's nothing worse than a martini that tastes like the shaker had Kahlua in it last round.
Angry person = uncool person. That's all anyone needs to know.
Let it die, please. This is absurd.
Barista acts like dick, customer acts like dick, owner acts like dick, threatens dick punching.
/end
BELISLE @19 hit the nail on the head. In my experiences working in customer service (especially tech support for Apple Computer, not coffee, mind you, but you have the same sort of high-end very particular customers. There is a reason pundits throw around "latte-swilling" as undeniable proof of elite-ness, even if it may be demographically untrue) nothing is gained by being a dick to a dick. They obviously believe at Murky that the customer is only right when he/she parrots what they dictate. If they want to be "soup nazis" about their coffee, that is literally their business, but I would not give them any more of my money if they denied me something so simple and easy to fulfill. I don't believe they sell "lecturing about manners" on the menu.
''We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them."
Bend over, grab your ankles, and shout your reasons up...
Sounds like backpedaling to me. Assuming the customer's recall is correct, the barista said "What you are about to do is Not Cool". The customer had already already berated the barista (which was INDEED not cool), so what else could he have been referring to but the supposed coffee armageddon that would have somehow resulted from the combination of espresso and ice?
For the record, my opinion, let me show you it:
Murky Coffee: Pretentious dicks.
Customer: Regular dick.
Now can we all go home?
in the coffee producing country where i live, the traditional method of making coffee is to grind it rough, put it into a fabric "sock" and pour hot water or milk through it. only recently have american style coffee shops started to exist, there has been italian coffee preparation available in restaurants for a long time.
the coffee growers would have no idea what you were talking about if you presented them with an argument about coffee integrity. they would just be totally shocked that anyone pays so much for coffee since they are picking it all by hand for a few dollars a day.
i think anyone, customer or barista, who makes much fuss about coffee needs to cut down.
Brilliant idea: if a store or restaurant doesn't offer a product you want, go somewhere else. Don't yell at the workers. I don't know where people get this idea that "the customer is always right" and that retail/service employees are supposed to be their indentured servants or something.
How about both sides are wrong?
Yeah, the guy was probably a dick. And, yeah, their policy is idiotic. They deserve each other.
I don't mean to cause a tiff, or a spat or a brouhaha, but can we see a little less of the word kerfuffle for while? It's a great word, don't get me wrong. I just don't want us all to get tired of it.
#33 The store does offer what the customer ordered, they have espresso and they have ice and in fact they serve "americanos" which is espresso over ice.
Great. Just great. Start a brouhaha about kerfuffle.
How about fracas?
Maybe a to-do?
I think the most interesting thing about this is the Rashomon aspect. You've got the customer retelling a version on his blog that, per someone who witnessed it (referenced in the original thread), seems to have been largely in the customer's mind.
It's like that time I told off that employee at Starbucks, and that beautiful woman in line behind me whispered in my ear, "You are making me so hot right now!"
Then we made our way to the backseat of her car in the parking lot, and, well, there was an unfortunate incident with two spilled cups of scalding hot coffee...
walla-walla?
the really bizarre thing about all this is the fact that the coffee shop refuses to serve a drink that is an italian tradition.. maybe over in the US you dont have too many actual italian cafes but here in Melbourne they are everywhere. Want a great iced coffee ? Walk into any cafe here and order a caffe freddo. you'll get a shot of espresso, a glass of ice and a small jug of milk. Any cafe that has some kind of idiot policy about no espresso over ice clearly has no clue about good italian coffee & should be avoided at all costs..
here's something even more bizarre about this incident:
from Wash Post:
"Murky Coffee, according to the tax office, owes more than $427,000 in sales and franchise taxes. A lien filed against the business shows that Cho paid sales tax to the government in only three of the 24 months from November 2004 to October 2006. Officials with the tax office said Cho missed payments in 2007 and 2008 as well."
yikes!
Beggars CAN be choosy....
For a single, owner-run store that plays up staff involvement to hide behind "policy" is the purest bullshit, and I'm amazed at the number of people here and elsewhere who have swallowed it.
The people at Murky are legally entitled to do as they please for any reason, or no reason at all. But hiding their reasoning in a black box called "policy" doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their actions. It especially doesn't entitle them to act in an arbitrary, capricious, or condescending manner and then get treated like they're being friendly and sensible.
Their expectation that they could is what set off Jeff Simmermon, the iced-espresso buyer. At least he could admit in retrospect that he behaved poorly, but Murky's Nick Cho seems determined that he'll learn exactly nothing from this.
Until this important issue is settled once and for all, I want to hear nothing (you hear me? NOTHING) about Iraq, the credit crisis, global warming, nuclear proliferation or the rising price of rice OR oil. Keep it to yourself. I am trying to concentrate on THIS.
And while you are at it, get in the kitchen and make me an espresso.
jeez,you tell someone they can't have ice in their drink and now your tax records are published world wide.....hmmmmm....I have a use for this power......
What is needed is a glamorous musical-style production about a coffee shop where people get over themselves and stop being miserable asshats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUTEd3OmIK0
thank the gods!!
Britney Spears reaches custody agreement with ex-husband
Singer will get increased access to her sons
* Jul 19, 2008
There have to be some colorful, out-of-date, senseless synonyms for kerfuffle. How about dust-up in the interim?
Sounds like they've had a history with customers who order "iced espresso" and then add huge amounts of (free) milk, effectively creating an iced latte on the cheap. They don't want to ration the milk, but they don't want people to rip them off, either, and this is their current solution.
That certainly explains the "what you're about to do is not cool" reaction much better than assuming the barista really hates iced espresso.
The Other Matt #42:
You might be interested in this excellent article on the history of coffee in NZ & Oz. Basically, the modern espresso machine, not mass produced until after WW2, came to Australasia with the Italian migrants post the war. By then, in America, the normal Italian coffee had been established as the brewed/filter sort; the espresso took a lot longer to gain acceptance.
I had heard that there were accounts of American visitors to Sydney during the Olympics who complained of being unable to buy a decent coffee - they were not used to the stuff produced by espresso machines. Which is also apparently why Starbucks took off; you could get decent* coffee there.
*For given values of 'decent'. Disclaimer: I'm repeating hearsay so could be completely wrong about some or all of the above.
I still like rumpus
hurly burly hugger mugger to-do?
I call shenanigans on this entire "ghetto latte" customer self service milk abuse argument. I seriously doubt people are conniving to save money by getting an espresso and adding their own milk. Personally I like more milk and or cream than coffee shops ever include in my drinks and I always have to ask for it to be redone or for the cup to come 2 inches short so I can add the amount I like. I definitely think the entire concept of calling the drink a "ghetto latte" is proof positive that these folks re just being elitist. They also like to compare themselves to sommeliers which is just way over the top.
MArtha @ 43, he's also getting sued by his landlord for not paying his rent for several months.
For someone who knows so much about running a business, you'd think he'd know he needs to pay his taxes AND his rent.
I don't see how a business that's in that kind of trouble (because if there's someone you don't want on your back, it's the tax man) would turn away any business. Customer wants his espresso over ice? Sure thing, that'll be an extra $0.75 to cover cup and ice. Ghetto lattes are a problem? Move the milk to the counter or switch to small packages that can easily be dispensed by the staff. You go out of your way to make as many sales as you can, and screw your coffee snobbery.
The one thing not to do is to come off like the Coffee Nazi and discourage any customers from wanting to come into your store. Sure plenty of people will cheer him on for sticking it to crazy caffeine starved yuppie (who knows how many will actually go buy his coffee though), but I suspect that are some folks who won't want to bother with his store for fear of feeling like idiots if they offend his delicate coffee sensibilities. Better to suck it up and go to Starbucks where they can get their drink however they want it without it turning into an internet brouhaha.
and I think we better draw the line here. What next? His medical records?
I just feel that there's got to be an expression like Circassian two-step or Walla Walla wienie roast.
ah! an "Italian Wedding"!
What about a good old ballyhoo?
Pertinent rundown:
Customer: "I want that one"
Barista: "I don't like it"
Internets: "Wha' a kerfuffle"
foofaraw perhaps?
Oh, I love to see this spread far and wide. While I've got an appreciation for dedication to quality, I have a bigger appreciation for Not Being a Douchebag. So that puts Nick Cho and his tax cheating ass squarely on the wrong side of me. If there's such thing as justice, his Arlington location (Douchebaggery HQ) will get shut down and sold off to pay his DC taxes. I live all of three blocks away, and would gladly welcome back the crappy old junk store that used to occupy that location.
Is foofaraw a word? Cuz that would be the winner. We could officially deprecate kerfuffle, which by the way, has been getting on my nerves, too.
foo·fa·raw (ff-rô)
n.
1. Excessive or flashy ornamentation.
2. A fuss over a trifling matter.
1933 N.Y. Times Bk. Rev. 26 Mar. 7/1 A kinship born..of a common humor, and a common liking for the kind of theatrical display which Andy contemptuously calls ‘foofaraw’.
1935 N.Y. Times 5 Aug. 14/5 This august assemblage of the powers of earth, with its pomp and circumstance, its foofaraw and medicine-making.
1954 Time 1 Mar. 88/2 The Vatican's recent decision..set off a foofaraw of petion-drafting [read petition-drafting], letter-signing, and complaining.
1989 G. ANDERSON in New Q. Mag. Spring 34 The food isn't what you'd think, in spite of all the foofara about Greek cooking.
2004 Vanity Fair Nov. 316/1, I have no idea how the later-summer foofaraw caused by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth played out.
Pogo. Pogo used it, it's a word.
Word.
I always thought a kerfuffle was a type of German desert, sort of like a soufflé, heavy on the chocolate, best served warm.
If that were the definition, we'd be asking for more.
~~~
flap-doodle?
Hullabaloo.
No, no, no. A kerfuffle is a trifle served with German cherry brandy poured over it.
Violalabloo?
kirsch kerfuffle?
kirschfuffle?
Shanghai shivaree?
Scottish cocktail party?
Wrong thread, 404. This is the murkabaloo thread. Or perhaps murkdoodle.
hey! what's all the hubbub, bub?
And I have a friend who keeps getting confused and calling 'auflauf', which is a food item, 'einlauf', which is an enema.
antinous, which was he trying to get?
kerfuffleupagus
could be dangerous in some restaurants
'cuz either sounds just yummy!
einlauf = murkdoodle ?
kerfuffleupagus FTW!
big bird would be proud :)
clem
Oooh, I knew it... all I had to do is throw in one tiny comment about kerfuffle and get all these great words in exchange. You guys rock. Ark, foofaraw is great, I'd heard it before but it could see wider use, IMO. Also digging fracas, hubbub, dust-up, ballyhoo and rumpus. Flapdoodle also rocks, but I've always though of it more as meaning nonsense or crapola (that's what I learned from Wooster/Wodehouse anyway).
mitt ein tuben
Scottish cocktail party
I will definitely use that until Hassan-i-Sabbah forces me to stop. My name is Campbell, so I should be able to get away with it.
Until some MacDonald shows up and brings up Glencoe.
Einlauf more equals doodlemurk.
Go to Java Shack instead. It's about 5 blocks east.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/13/AR2008071301463.html
i would've thought that einlauf would clear up the doodlemurk.
Until some MacDonald shows up and brings up Glencoe.
What if they bring up Glen Campbell?
A storm in a coffee place might be a "garboil."
Definition:
\Gar"boil\, n. [OF. garbouil; cf. Sp. garbullo, It.
garbuglio; of uncertain origin; the last part is perh. fr. L.
bullire to boil, E. boil.]
Tumult; disturbance; disorder. [Obs.] --Shak.
imbroglio?
imbrewglio?
and once discovering the happiest thread in the world, they all lived happily ever after...
This is all just a tempest in a teapot.
mmmmmm, tea.
Tell me it's not too late for branglement.
It's never too late for new language.
Then how about "Spurchumigus"?
Branglement is a word, you know. It's a word that forces one to sound like Tom Hanks when pronouncing it. That's why no one uses it anymore.
I take a day off of BB to host a party and THIS is what you all get up to?
Such a hurly burly over nothing.
Kerfuffleupagus gets my vote. I'm going to repeat it to myself for a while now...
Nice one Jake, I'm a foofaraw man m'self :)
Nick Cho, FTW!
Murky's policy is infuriating, as is the owner's response. To paraphrase him: there are things that demand having a policy (like paying your taxes, so your Eastern Market store doesn't get shut down). Refusing to put your mediocre coffee on ice is not one of them.
Nick Cho \Nik"Choh\n.
an amusing quarrel brought about by churlish behavior on the part of all parties involved.
NO COFFEE FOR YOU! Come back, one year.
I sincerely hope Nick Cho wears a beret.
If I were selling coffee and a potential loyal
customer wanted it with ice, I'd let him have
it with ice. Why not?
If I were in this guy's place and were refused
iced espresso, I would have ordered the espresso,
gone back and asked for a glass of ice, poured
the espresso in the ice, and smirked.
Two things here everyone should know about retail:
1) If you don't get what you want or don't like the service of a place, just leave. Yeah, you might suffer the stink-eye (at least) from a server/proprietor, but in 10 minutes it's all over and nobody cares. Especially when it comes to coffee shops. I don't care where in the U.S. you are, there is always choice in coffee shops. So be an active consumer.
2) In the world of retail, if you're under the age of 50 and speak out against a customer, you'll suffer. People don't like young owners sassing back. But post-50? You can be a 100% opinionated jerk and people find it charming! Check out any "famous" old establishment and that's always the case. Here in NYC there are more than a few "wonderful" old timey places with cantankerous coots and people love it! Even if the food/product is mediocre.
Also, while I haven't had coffee in over 8 years, I find iced coffee fiends to be some of the most obnoxious folks around. Somehow the idea that you're having something 1% better than a bottle of cola goes to the heads of iced coffee folks.
#52 soon lee
thanks for that link! i didnt know that connection between the timing of the birth of the espresso machine & the italian migration to melbourne.. interesting stuff!! (ok, yes, i am a coffee nerd, guilty as charged)
i just got back from my first trip to europe actually (for sonar music festival in barcelona), was interesting to observe a bit of euro coffee culture.. a latte in barca is a caffe con leche (coffee with milk), but they have a great tiny latte number called a caffe cortado (a "cut" coffee)
..but generally they dont seem to have a really strong coffee culture, they prefer to drink beer (it was summer tho i guess).. in paris the closest they have to that is a cafe noisette (which is stronger, more like a macciato).
JACK,
Thanks for articulating this overlooked curiosity; it's something we've all noticed but maybe never mention. You're the first I've heard state it. A surly, nasty-tempered old merchant in my town was beloved in spite of his being insulting. His sons finally dragged him off the premises, snapping and anarling, at the age of ninety and into retirement; he was/is now giving his nurses hell. Of course he has a multitude of generationally stacked grandchilren, upon which he predictably dotes. I guess that's part of a lovable old fart's m.o. This is also true, I suspect, of a type of high school varsity coach, who is adored by his players to the degree that he reviles them.
Note that this nick guy is apparently also not a big fan of paying his taxes. All in all, it doesn't sound like a very good business, and it's certainly the antithesis of what a coffeeshop should be, i.e. a place to kick it.
It would've been more pertinent to post the response that Nick posted originally, where he threatens to punch the customer in the dick.
http://www.murkycoffee.com/2008/07/open-letter-to-jeff-simmermon.html
-SH.
i think i have to quote the joker on this one.
"Why so serious?" i mean come on does this really matter?
What ever happened to "The customer is always right". This whole thing is stupid. The barista should have said, "Yes sir". Given the guy his coffee and then talked behind his back to coworkers about how stupid the guy was to ask for ice.
I'm fed up with businesses who feel it is their right to argue with customers over services and products. The correct answer is, "The customer is always right."
Bill B.
I read Nick's whole answer, and then the second answer in the comments where he refused to let anyone comment on his post.
The way I see this is the customer ordered his coffee the way he wanted it, and the "barista" (has there ever been a more arrogant and stupid name for a counter-person?) withheld it from him after payment solely in order to make a snide comment.
Customer ordered the shots and a separate cup of ice and paid for it. "Barista" made it, called customer over to get it, then withheld the product while arrogantly lecturing the customer. Customer finally gets product he paid for.
Nick's right that the customer shouldn't have gotten mad, but he's totally wrong in absolving himself and his employee's arrogant abuse of their position.
#51 -- Except that the customer wanted to drink it black.
#112: I don't care where in the U.S. you are, there is always choice in coffee shops.
You should get out more. There are TONS of places in the US that don't have multiple coffee shops. I live in one.
Back to the whole "barista" name stupidity -- how is it that someone who works in a diner and can make 250 or more different dishes with any adjustments a customer wants is called a "short order cook" but some pimple faces dweeb who pours pre-made shots of coffee into plastic cups is called a "barista"?
How is it that a guy who has to know 300 different alcoholic drinks and combinations is called a "bartender" but a arrogant yutz who pours pre-measured shots of sugary syrup into a glass of milk is a "barista"?
There's a reason we don't call diner cooks "culinists" and bartenders "mixologists" -- it'd be stupid, but still not as stupid as barista.
They're counter workers.
Another epic thread. I've been to Murky several times. The coffee's decent, not exceptional. All this P.R. Kerstufflefluff amounts to is: no iced espresso = stupid. Customer = douchebag. Owner = equally douched-out bag of ineffectual snottiness.
Peet's coffee is every bit as good, and they're a corporation. All in all, though, I have to say that I like Peet's more, for two reasons. First off, they are required to give away a certain amount of coffee for free, which is a terrific policy, especially if you're a regular. (Seriously, I haven't paid for coffee in more than a year.) And second, they'll make you any damned coffee drink you can think of, including—gasp!—iced espresso, which, as mentioned here, is a deliciously popular drink the world over.
By God, if there's one thing to get pissed about, it's coffee snobbery. Especially when it comes from a tax-evading yahoo who doesn't pay his rent. I would have freaked out, too, and probably far worse, particularly if I hadn't yet had my morning coffee. Even if the customer was the biggest asshole in the World, I raise my cup.
I just don't get the whole "Ooh, it's totally uncool to get mad, man" attitude. Jeeziz, what a buncha pansies! There's being a dick, and there's righteous indignation. There's being an asshole, and then there's the wrath that every arrogant, pretentious retail worker deserves.
You don't know, maybe the guy was in a hurry. Maybe he wanted to get to work on time or something, and this "barista"'s gonna slow him down with some ridiculous "policy" about how they can serve coffee to their paying customers? So now he's wasted ten minutes with these assclowns. You waste my time for some ridiculous nonsense like this, and I'm gonna get pissed too.
If the "policy" is supposed to stop people from making their own lattes, then: TEH BIZNISS, UR DOIN IT RONG. Either you're charging way too much for lattes, or you don't know how to buy milk wholesale and cover the few moochers with overhead expenses.
Whatever. Murky doesn't sound like its going to be around much longer anyway.
I was in line at the shop on the day in question, and I witnessed this incident, or one strikingly similar to it. If it was indeed the same incident, then the customer is greatly exaggerating his reaction, and his posturing has been at his own expense, as it has drawn criticism and shifted sympathy to the shop. If it was a different incident on the same day, well then, the shop should probably do some soul-searching about their policy. Even if it FEELS right to them, it's a losing battle If it turns off several customers on a daily basis.
I won't get too far into whether the policy is right or wrong. Ultimately it is the shop's prerogative and the customers can do nothing more than exert pressure with their patronage. Where I will pontificate, though, are on the following two points.
First, the shop should do better at filling their niche as a small, local business. We live in an economy where underemployed lackeys are plugged into every job possible. They work for faceless execs whom they feel no obligation to; by proxy, they could also care less for us, the customers. In contrast, the shop is getting something very right by standing behind their barista; on the other hand, they are serving their customers the same lack of regard under the guise of pretension about their product.
Second, the policy is not being executed with any grace whatsoever. In the incident that I witnessed, the barista started off with the same line, "hey man, that's not ok." It was so off-color, I expected him to crack a smile, but he carried through this argument completely without humor until the customer just walked away quietly, leaving his drink on the counter. At one point, the customer had offered to ice the drink out of sight of the barista, but the barista still argued that he was not ALLOWED to, and he kept his hand hovering over the cup, as if he would snatch it away if the customer made a move towards it. The whole scene was a shame to watch, and it really soured me on the shop. I understand they take pride in the product, I understand they may want to SUGGEST a better option, but a shamefest and a threatening posture are totally out of line. Perhaps say it with a smile, perhaps turn your back and just say "man, I can't watch you do that," but take it easy on the customers, guys. They may just like it a different way, or they may have reasons beyond your assumptions, reasons which they should not be obliged to explain every time they place their order.
If the issue over taste is such a big deal, I'd like to know what their policy is on artificial sweeteners or 2%, 1%, or skim milk. If taste and quality are such a big deal that your policy can stop you from making a sale or keep a customer from coming back maybe you are a little too high strung to be in the "service" industry.
I found it really depressing, this never-ending argument about the right way to ruin coffee.
Coffee in the USA is generally un-distinguishable from muddy water anyway. Not only that, but you are using italian-looking (but usually uncorrect) names to label that tanned dog-piss; it is so imperialistic and arrogant, it really drives me crazy.
Now, to make things even worst, you pretend to have a refined taste; clearly cat piss goes well with ice, while dog piss should be always drunk hot.
Isn't barista the feminine form of the word? Shouldn't a man doing said job be called a baristo?
Wackyvorlon, take this in friendly spirit: If only there were a large networked repository of public information where such information was easily indexed for quick reference. Oh wait, there's Google. I don't work there and I'm betting most other readers don't either.
We need a new term for coffee-makers. Somthing that your average coffee mixer wouldent blink twice at, but sends douchebag "baristas" into hissy-fits.
Ah, my favorite kind of insult. The one that only works on the people it needs to.
They're both idiots. There's an old saying: "Never wrestle with a pig, you get dirty and the pig enjoys it." The blogger lost credibility when he said he'd only return to burn down the store. The store owner lost credibility when he responded at the bloggers level. The store owner has the right to run (and ruin) his business any way he likes. The blogger has the right to buy his coffee at an establishment that gives him the type of service he requires. If the blogger had written a report without the threats, he'd be seen as an aggrieved customer with a tale to tell. If the owner had written an intelligent response to the threat of arson, he'd have been seen as the victim of an unwarranted attack. As it is, both appear to be whining children. Neither deserves sympathy.
I'll go for a Donnybrook, please.
Neat. NO ICE!
@ #128:
I had the same question. Barister, maybe?
If it's a bar, aren't you a bartender? What do they call you if you work at Jamba Juice? A fruttista?
how can you people waste your time on this? Coffee?
The only thing worth discussing about beverages is the appalling fact that all American beer is a crime against nature and humanity and reasonable grounds for going to war.
Are you serious Taki?
The big American beers, yes, I agree, but if you're talking about some of the most excellent craft brews, then I'm going to take my chances and fight you on this.
~~~
Storm in a teacup?
Most American beer is dishwater. That's one of the three great things about our northern neighbor; the other two being their Virginia Blonde cigarettes and mothers...
Hi, Mom.
Please, everyone. Let's not get into a huge nickcho over beer preferences.
Klaatu barada nickcho.
*sigh* Stuff like this makes me ashamed of being a serious coffee geek. I love iced coffee drinks, but only drink iced coffee out at Dutch Bros, who makes cold drinks frexsh like they make hot drinks. Most coffee shops make iced drinks out of old coffee from pots about to be tossed or old espresso shots put in a jug placed in the 'fridge. Very few places shot a cold drink fresh over ice and fewer froth the milk over the ice as well. Cold drinks are usually made with old leftovers. Ugh! I use left over coffee to make ice cream, jelly or candies...never cold drinks. And don't get me started on "white" coffee or chaffee or quisir...
well,apart from the micro-brews of course...
yo senor takuan! wha aboot the 'sam adams' oatmeal stout and his ever-so-peaty scot's ale? and the stout from 'anchor steam' ( also a decent i.p.a.)!
yeah, good thing you qualified that, especially as I was about to EXPLODE as any Californian beer lover would at the base calumny you unqualified statement amounts to.
And I really don't see a parallel here. How you damage your crema is your business, angsty baristas aside; it doesn't have the significance that a poorly drawn Foghorn, or inexpertly poured Lost Abbey has. Crimes against beer are serious.
coffee, pah! doesn't even have alcohol innit!
FSKING A!
1. If I need to listen to your podcast just to order coffee, that should be a warning.
2. "Ultimately, it's just coffee," Cho said. Well if it's "just coffe" then why do you need a "policy"?
#128,
In spanish -ista is gender-neutral. It's equivalent to the English -ist, -ite, -er, etc.
ah, "terrorista"
I think all of this is just a load of arglebargle.
#128: Nah, too easily confused with barrister.
Somehow we missed 'tussle'.
Wait for it ... wait for it ... a clusterfuffle.
Kermother Kerfuffle! Bob Sagat!
I could have sworn 'tussle' was up there.
What about "scuffle" or "brawl"?
Would that be a Charlie Fluffer in polite society?
Hardboiled slang:
"chin music"
giving someone "the Broderick"
I'm making a list. (Possible synonyms for kerfuffle, if needed at some later date).
scuffle
tussle
brouhaha
scrape
to-do
arglebargle (or perhaps, argiebargie)
fracas
rumpus
foofaraw
imbroglio
Send more, I will archive them.
Branglement, damn it!
1 definition found
branglement - Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48 :
Branglement \Bran"gle*ment\, n.
Wrangle; brangle. [Obs.]
[1913 Webster]
You don't sound like Tom Hanks if you just read it to yourself!
Someone else posted
ruckus
hubbub
Dammit Anthony, I will add ruckus and hubbub to the list. But give up on brangelment, you can lobby all you want. It's NG, Nobody's ever heard it before, not even in a Bugs Bunny cartoon. Yes, it is a real word, but [obs.], as you noted in your definition.
I could use a cup of coffee right now.
Oh great. A discussion on branglement turns into a Scottish cocktail party. How about if we change it to embranglement?
Once more, and just for fun. ANTHONY, don't make me come after you with some chin music. (ya know, the ol' high inside fastball).
Totally off-topic:
Tkn. Pls. Cntn t t dcnt lvl f psts. Yr cryptc-lm s strtng th stnk ths plc t.
'd nvr thght 'd ctlly ngg wht ws mnt t b jk fltr t rd ths thrds f th trlls, nr dd rlly vw Tkn s trll, bt rlly. mn >rlly.
Ths sms lk gd thrd t vnt my slf-rghts frm pny-rd, s, y'know, all these folks are WAY too uptight about their coffee.
If the customer was rude I'd most probably have an icy (haha) response to him, too. Maybe this should be laid to rest before someone responds to the response and so on and so on.
Argybargy, all of it.
jbang,
Scroll bar. Please.
Pretentious? Moi?
insolent little bugger, innit he?
I think I may have made a new little friend....
did he mean "cryptic lame'... " that sexy, skin-tight fabric of the late 50's? akin to "gold lame' ", only far more mysterious?
Talk, it's only talk
Arguments, agreements, advice, answers,
Articulate announcements
It's only talk
Talk, it's only talk
Babble, burble, banter, bicker bicker bicker
Brouhaha, boulderdash, ballyhoo
It's only talk
Back talk
Talk talk talk, it's only talk
Comments, cliches, commentary, controversy
Chatter, chit-chat, chit-chat, chit-chat,
Conversation, contradiction, criticism
It's only talk
Cheap talk
Talk, talk, it's only talk
Debates, discussions
These are words with a D this time
Dialogue, dualogue, diatribe,
Dissention, declamation
Double talk, double talk
Talk, talk, it's all talk
Too much talk
Small talk
Talk that trash
Expressions, editorials, expugnations, exclamations, enfadulations
It's all talk
Elephant talk, elephant talk, elephant talk
___
King Crimson never made it down to K...
Ok, slightly off subject but funny nonetheless:
True story. File this under Slacker Stories from Austin.
A friend of mine went to apply to become a waiter at a Tex-Mex restaurant called Chuy's. Though they had a stack of apps, and he had no waiting experience, he was a walk-on (getting the job immediately.) I should explain that at the time he resembled a young blonde Elvis and that restaurant has a big love affair with the King, especially on black velvet. So he worked there for a while, and one day this guy comes in and asks him about an item on the menu, the Elvis Platter, and what it was. I guess he was a little tired of working there by then, so he replied: "Well, you eat it, and a few hours later they find you slumped over the toilet..." It turned out the customer was the regional coordinator of the National Elvis Fanclub or somesuch, and my friend was fired just as summarily as he was hired.
So don't be cruel, folks...
#133 and #128:
barista is correct for both male and female, the plural is baristi in the former case and bariste in the latter.
There are a few words in italian behaving this way, all ending in -ista; they are all modern words, often of English origin like "comunista". "Vista" is plain feminine.
BTW being a barista does not imply any coffee-making skill; furthermore coffee-making skills are limited to applying the right pressure to the powder and foaming the milk without making it taste like boiled milk (in Starbucks they usually do both wrong).
Wow what alot of fuss over a cup of coffee, glad to see peoples priorities are in order. I'm not reading the backstory to this or looking up their personal details to post up on teh internets for a personal vendetta against barista's, because one short changed me one time and I don't like their attitude shouldn't they know to worship me for I am more worthy than those peons! I'm just not that interested, they both may have been dicks I just don't care enough.
But all I could think of while reading was that if I owned a video store and a customer wanted to buy Bloodrayne or Johnny Mnemonic, I would insult their taste and ask them to leave for my sanity. For it would be my business and I follow the Gord;
http://www.actsofgord.com/
"No modifications to the Classic Cappuccino. No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate (during the months we offer it). No espresso in a to-go cup. No espresso over ice. These are our policies. We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them."
Sure, they're happy to share their reasons, but apparently not about the $5 Hot Chocolate, since you're not allowed to ask about that.
Weird.
All right JBang, if that is your real name. That tears it. When I start my own blog I'm going to put 'branglement' at the top of the list of obsolete terminology for commotion-where it belongs!
Honestly! Your drumbling on has turned this topic into a cumberground with all your whingling on. A blog post is no place to spuddle, sir! I find it janglesome and wantsome at the same time!
Oh, shoot! I of course meant to aim my comment at the Tanglesome rapscallion who goes by the name "Jake0748".
My apologies mr. Jbang.
Considering that the owner already had to close down the DC site for tax evasion, and probably fraud, I would have to just side with the customer. They always are kind of elitist there, and you should always be weary when a store has a cash only policy!
Ah, Jbang - and here I thought I was the only one.
On the topic - the fellow gets to decide what he sells in his own shop. Otherwise, what's the point of having your own shop? Getting shirty because you try to buy something that a shop doesn't sell displays obnoxious levels of self-involvement. And that's before, even, the tantrum with the dollar bill.
The store had two locations, one in DC near eastern market and one in Arlington, VA, which is just outside of DC. The DC store was shut down and the top notch equipment was auctioned off for only a few thousand dollars because of a sales tax deficiency. Allegedly Murky had not paid any of the sales tax that they had been collecting for a few months, and the DC office of tax and revenue (OTR) is way worse than anything Kafka could imagine.
So Nick admitted to "financial mismanagement," but he was unable to remedy it because of the DC OTR's ineptness. The OTR's office likely was less than responsive because they were in damage control mode because of a huge $20-50 million embezzlement scheme that had just hit. (Many articles in the Wa Post on the Harriet Walters scandal). The internal audits and press pressure likely distracted them from working any thign out with Murky.
What gets me though is that Nick Cho seems to be very active in the national coffee circuit, and he hosted a lot of events at the DC murky for the sort of people who take coffee a little too seriously. (Coffee should be taken seriously, but perhaps not as far as they go.) I was always wondering where they got all the money for all these fru-fru barista competitions and events. Right after his DC store was auctioned away from him, he and two other people flew out of town for a barista competition. Anyway, the DC outpost is gone, but the Arlignton one has been largely unaffected by the fallout from the taxation tussle.
i'm a former barista too, and a "ghetto latte" is not actually a latte, since the milk at the dairy bar is cold and the milk in a latte or cappuccino is steamed.
perhaps what he wanted was an iced americano (expresso over ice, sometimes with water added), but he had not heard that name before (some places i have worked do not use names for their beverages).
in this case the employee who took his order should have asked him "oh, you mean an americano? that is what we call that drink" and then the customer probably would have said something like "yeah, whatever, that" because he was having coffee withdrawals and was not feeling like himself.
i've worked in a couple coffee shops and every place (even the privately owned ones) preach endlessly about how you are supposed to treat the customer wonderfully. if you dont normally make something, warn them, maybe charge them a little extra, but do it anyways. at starbucks we didnt heat eggnog past a certain point cause it scrambled the eggs. one customer insisted, and then came back saying "you were right"
if a customer is coming in to buy a product from you, and are somewhat dick-y about it, serve them, and when they leave bitch about them. dont treat them badly or get all defensive. even if you think they are trying to save a dollar. that dollar they saved might have wound up in the tip jar for all you know.
plus "the customer is always right" ALWAYS. cause they have the money. you get paid to serve them. i personally hate that, so i got out of retail.
It's interesting that the owner is not above rewriting events to suit his purposes. He claims that when the barista said "that's not ok", he was admonishing the customer's behaviour, not about pouring espresso over ice. But from the original account, he said this, and launched into an explanation of why, BEFORE the customer ever snapped at him.
Take coffee as seriously as you would anything else that you put in your body, but when you serve food or drink, I think that the customer has a right to consider you a business where hospitality is crucial, and that their desires, no matter how perverse, crass, or tasteless should be the basis of the transaction. If you forget that, then you really have no business serving the public, and I say this as a hospitality industry profession who spends a good portion of my day mocking the poor taste of my clientele BEHIND THEIR BACKS WHILST SMILING EAGERLY TO THEIR FACES AND FULLFILLING THEIR EVERY NEED. Because that's the job. That's what the people are paying for.
I'm so sick of the bullshit about "ghetto iced latte." Sometimes I add a lot of milk to my coffee (usually *hot* coffee, not iced, but the same idea applies), and it's offensive that people might think it's because I'm being "cheap". How much milk I add is directly proportional to how hot the coffee is and how soon I want to drink it. I don't want steamed milk in my drink. I don't like it, and it defeats the purpose of trying to cool down my drink. Similarly, why the hell would I want steamed milk in my iced coffee?
Anthony, I like rapscallions on my pizza. ;)
contretemps? dust-up?
espresso over ice =/= iced coffee, or an iced americano
an iced americano is espresso poured into a tiny bit of water (which saves the shots, which have a shelf life of ~30 seconds otherwise) with ice added as the last step.
iced coffee is not made with espresso.
espresso over ice is filling a cup with ice and pouring the espresso on the ice, which shocks it and changes it and makes it taste awful, blahhh.
i completely understand a coffee shop who is really, truly serious about coffee refusing to serve a drink they think is contradictory to their coffee seriousness. i also completely understand this guy being completely baffled by their refusal. i say to them: offer him a very dry iced americano. he won't know the difference. i say to him: if this is seriously an issue, shimmy down to a corporate coffee chain where they put customer service above making a damn good cup of coffee and they will serve you espresso over ice without blinking, because you, sir, are the customer, and it is their job to serve you. and also they probably don't know any better.
I used to be a barista at a privately owned coffee shop when I was younger. The owner imported estate coffee beans directly from around the world, and roasted them himself with a really nicely restored antique coffee roaster.
He was a stickler about quality, and basically trained us to be sort of coffee Sommeliers. Yes he was a snob. And we knew how to talk to our snob customers about body, tannins, acidity, grind size, etc., so that they were pleased and kept coming back.
HOWEVER: Customer service was always the first priority. We would present the items as we thought they should properly be made, but if the customer asked for something wacky, or something the owner may regard as 'ruining' the coffee, we were taught to smile and happily oblige them. You don't keep customers by belittling them or talking down to them. You don't make people feel foolish or embarrassed. This Cho guy just sounds like a jerk.
Unfortunately, the shop ended up going under after not one, but two Starbucks' opened on the same block - one right across the street. It was a little sad.
Once again, Jakeoughtsevenforty-eight,
You display no sense of evenhood. Your comments are enough to make one girn and gowl, alternately. I am forswunk, forswunk I say!
May you lose your sense of felth so as to no longer torment the innocent.
Anthony my blatherskite friend, you cut me to the quick sir. Begone ye hallanshaker!
JBang, you are not making yourself well beloved. Please consider amending your habits.
pother
spot of bother
I'm really more of a bladderskate, man. My virtue is intact.
My friend told me that "imbroglio" was an Italian dish made with shrimp, pasta, cream, and sand.
Do you think I've been hornswaggled?
I'm late for this party, but c'mon, people! Have we never viewed the mighty "Wayne's World"?
Garth: "We're going to have a rump-ruckus"
'member? 'member? The blue screen, Garth in chaps and a hat?
I thought an Argiebargie was a big flat boat out of Buenos Aires...
could it be a gullywhomper of a barnburner? much ado over a dadblamed bamboozlement?
Soon Lee @184: Dust up -- excellent!
Some low-hanging fruit: Tomfoolery; Shenanigans; Goings on; Barruccaba; Throw down; Tiff; Skirmish; Fray; Velitation; Tilt.
The trouble with Java Shack is that you have to pay for internet by the hour. Which, after living in Austin, just offends me. And it's slow and sometimes it's out for days. They are perfectly nice to their customers though. On the other hand, I don't even drink coffee and Murky's managed to irk the hell out of me with the same sort of bullshit.
But what are you gonna do, go to the awful (and perpetually internetless) Cosi above the Courthouse metro? There are actually some nice places to go out in Arlington but it is very much lacking in satisfactory coffee shops. In the end, I decided I'd rather have slower internet and pay for it than put up with being lectured on what a philistine I am.
Seriously? A blog sparring against a podcast. The future is now... and it makes me want to kill myself.
I really couldn't believe this thread the first time around nevermind it got resurrected. And now I really can't believe I'm contributing to it but -
Having lived in Italy for many years I can see a certain aspect of the attitude Italians display for their own coffee over that of other nations (often referred to as "dirty water") prevailing.
And I have to say that in a few cases the attitude was entirely merited. That said I personally witnessed and Italian walk into an Italian bar during summer ask for ,and was given without a comment, a doppio ristretto (the true coffee gourmet's tipple)with ice and a slice of lemon.
Whatever the origins of "Murky", unless they predate the founding of Starbucks, they are simply latching on to a trend. People working in establishments selling Italian styled drinks, called barrista in the US - quite probably wouldn't be able to work in an Italian bar - they don't do anything but sell coffee based products and are entirely unable to make or advise on the consumption of any of the vast range of cocktails, aperitifs and digestives on sale in an average Italian bar. By calling them barrista, the US companies change the customer's expectations of what the product will be. Freeing themselves to make it anything they want. Hence why the Starbucks range sticks to Italian names even if it's something as trivial as calling a 20 ounce cup a "venti".
yay, 200!!! and i dont even drink coffee!
#199:
I couldn't have said it better myself. The only thing you forgot to point out is the absolute absurdity of using Italian words like "venti" in the context of coffee as 20 ounces of real coffee would probably kill someone. Simply another way in justifying a $4+ product which is 99% water. Seriously, gasoline is still cheaper!
Ends rant, goes downstairs to bar for un bel cafe scecherato...
caffeinated contrempts
Antinous @89:
That would be my godfather.Antinous 89: Wow. Antinous Campbell. Sounds like a Heinlein character to me!
I always wanted to have a "blood feud" event, back when I was in the SCA. Participants would be randomly assigned to the Campbells or the MacDonalds, and given the appropriate badges: per fess gules and argent, a rondel or and gules, two arches or respectively. You could switch sides if your lady/lord was on the other, but then your former team would get extra points for vanquishing you.
I forget what tournament structure I was going to use. But as usual for such events, everyone would feast together afterwards (though not on the obvious iconic foods).
(Yes, I know the Campbell-MacDonald feud is not period. But this was for an event called Celtic Silliness, so I don't see why that should matter.)
heraldry hmmmm? "Spermatophores d'Or Rampant on field azure"?
Takuan, there's a canonical order to these things. One always mentions the field first (thus no need to mention that it IS the field). And the color or metal is mentioned AFTER the object it applies to. Position descriptors go after the name of the object but before the color, which is always mentioned last. And if you have more than one of something, you need to say how many (let's say 17). So your description would be blazoned azure, seventeen spermatophores rampant or.
I will leave the question of whether spermatophores can be rampant up to those who enjoy arguing such things. Ordinarily 'rampant' is applied only to four-legged creatures.
Oh, I forgot to mention that if the field is divided, you mention the division first, then the colors and metals in the parts of the field. In the example in 204, the field is divided per fess, a fess being a horizontal "bar" across the middle. There's no such actual figure in per fess, which is just a way of describing the division. In a division per fess, the top color, in this case gules, is mentioned first, and then the lower color.
hey Xoph! Guess who is best suited as BB Herald? Lucky us,unlucky you, now get to work! Never ceases to amaze me the variety and scope of talents here! You have to at least do the Boingers. Which would open up an artist's opportunity to render your formal descriptions. (Cory's HAS to have brass somewhere)
LOL Takuan, I'll think about it. Cory's definitely has to feature a cape gules and goggles sable, too!
yeah!
@ fewerwords:
I actually like espresso over ice. Some people are amazed and disgusted that I'll eat anything cold, as if eating cold pizza is any different from eating cold hamburgers. I understand their aversion, but it doesn't take a genius to know that taste is subjective.
That said, many so-called wine "experts" can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive wines, even though they claim to be able to do just that. I recently read an article that demonstrated that many "audiophiles" can't tell the difference between an MP3 recorded from vinyl and the real thing. Forensic analysts have been wrong thousands of times, leading to convictions for many innocent people.
So, say what you want about iced espresso. I know plenty of people, myself included, who prefer it to an Americano. I take mine with a pinch of cinnamon and cold whole milk, thanks.
Trouserslacks #198:
A blog sparring against a podcast.
That would be Celebrity Deathmatch Web2.0 style.
"No questions will be answered about the $5 Hot Chocolate...We have our reasons, and we're happy to share them."
ORLY?
Re: #163
Antinous (164): I totally douched out. Generally my two finger scroll is more than adequate and requires far less energy. No proud that I contributed something worthy of disemvowelment
Takuan: Yar, you do give me the irrits sometimes. Totally aware it's my issue and I'm totally working through it. Sorry to vent it publicly and in a trollesque fashion.
#189: I wasn't aware that my behaviour or ettiquete was habitually poor here on BoingBoing.
I certainly don't make a habit of pointing out that people shit me or that their opinion or contribution is not of merit, even when I feel it is the case (as my opinion is hardly of merit, etc, unto itself). And I certainly don't plan on doing so in the future.
I love BB, and the attitudes and culture it fosters. I had a poopy day and engaged in some frivolous, mean spirited scuttlebutt - after months of being genuinely (and ultimately meaninglessly) irked by said individual. But please! don't acuse me of engaging in such behaviour habitually.
...and suddenly i'm one of those over-explainy forum...justifcator-ers. Or something.
Murky's owner now admits the policy is NOT about the coffee.
In a discussion with me in the forums on CoffeeGeek, Nick Cho admitted that the main objective of the "no icing espresso" policy was not "Mostly for quality reasons" (the coffee), as he originally claimed, but to discourage the abuse of complimentary dairy products.
Setting policies for stuff like this just prevents your employees from using and developing their own good judgment and communication skills. Coffee and customer are both important; choosing one at the expense of the other is foolish and unnecessary.