British hacker Gary McKinnon, tinkerer in U.S. military systems, has all but lost his legal battle to avoid extradition. What's worse? That his real crime was to reveal his supposed victims' criminal incompetence and expose a lopsided extradition treaty, or that the British press will bullshit relentlessly about his likely sentence--and portray Aspergers sufferers as mental and moral infants--just to hype his story? And then there are his laywers, ready with the ultimate moral blackmail: He'll kill himself if forced to face American justice.
McKinnon another step closer to extradition
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I do not understand the hubbub over this. He broke US computer laws--laws that are basically the same in his own country--from a country with an extradition treaty with the US. Of course he's going to be extradited.
This is sort of an aside.
Just ripped this off the slashdot comment thread on this story. Apparently it's a quote from "Dramatica":
"Losers believe that having Asperger's Syndrome excuses all forms of social retardation, attention whoring and shitty self-absorbed bullshit, while also allowing them to lay claim to its supposed symptom of "higher than average levels of intelligence".
For these reasons, Aspers has greatly outstripped ADHD as the chic diagnosis of choice for pretty much every group of fucktards on the internet. It is no wonder then that all people with Assburgers are fugly."
Gotta say, that is kinda cool. And I'm totally ready and willing to recognize the symptoms (both the clinically described and the mercilessly critical above) in myself.
I always felt the extradition treaty part was a bit of a political red herring. The treaty is awful, a War on Terror thing, but extradition would been on the cards here in any case. (The fact that it's stupid to extradite for such a trivial crime notwithstanding)
The part I don't get is not pleading out to what appears to be the minimum sentence that he could get, given that he's confessed. Whatever his lawyers thought they were getting him by not agreeing to that, it turns out they almost certainly have screwed him.
I do not understand the hubbub over this.
1) He may go to prison for sixty years for a crime that did no more damage than embarrassing the US government. There are no 'actual damages'. Vengeance is not justice.
2) The US/UK extradition treaty requires the UK to extradite to the US, but not vice versa. That kind of unilateral treaty is usually reserved for client states and colonies. Given that the US has dragged the UK into its questionable wars and used UK airports as stopovers for secret rendition flights, it appears that the US regards the UK as a service station rather than as a strategic partner.
In the words of Delenn "Absofragginglutely".
Kyle Armbruster said "I do not understand the hubbub over this."
Then you don't understand the issues at hand and the wider implications. Your sophomoric reasoning is about as intelligable as the press reports I've seen on British television this morning.
To Antinous and Loughlin:
Actually, I do understand the issue. It's been crammed down my throat by every blog I read for--what? Seven years now? I've read plenty on it.
I agree that 60 years is a lot for what he did, but regardless of whether the security was tight on the army computers or not, this is pretty much the most serious computer crime you can commit. Breaking into military systems during a war (no matter how unjust)? Yup, that's a big computer crime.
Furthermore, and further to the point, it's not like he's being extradited to North Korea or someplace where he'll be given a fake trial and then sentenced to 60 years' hard labor. He's going to the frickin' United States of America, and as poorly as my home country has behaved in recent years, we do have a pretty fair judicial system (don't "but what about..." me here; there are few places with as fair a system--I live in Japan, a well-thought-of, modern nation, and I hope to god I never have to go before a judge here--you don't come back). Will he get to run and play through strawberry fields the rest of his days? No, but that isn't because the US is a monster state; it's because he committed a serious computer offense.
Moreover, everyone keeps bandying this "60 year" number about. Folks, he hasn't been tried yet. Sentencing is a long way off. He's already wasted 7 years trying not to go to trial.
As for the lopsided extradition treaty, well... Talk to the British government; they signed it. They must have thought it was a good idea at the time. But it's already enacted, so it's way too late to complain about it. Seriously, the way people carry on about the US, you'd think that everywhere they go, they force diplomats' heads down to the table with guns to their temples and make them sign things. It's preposterous. If you're in a bad deal with the US, talk to the people who agreed to it--but you're still bound.
Also, the "Asperger's" business just drives me up a wall. Asperger's is just what we used to call "eccentric genius." You know, like Bill Gates, who is a weirdo, and really, really smart. It's not even a real "disease;" it's a made-up psychiatric disease, like ADHD. Maybe I can get a disease named after me. The symptoms are being irritated by whooping and hollering about mundane issues and publicly grousing about it on online discussion threads. I can't help it. I have Armbruster's!
The whole thing is silly, and has not needed to drag on this long.
And finally, who cares if he's going to kill himself if he has to be extradited? That's his choice, just like it was his choice to deliberately infiltrate military computer networks of a nation at war. There's a reason we don't do things like that, and the biggest one is "you might go to prison."
Pfff...
Once again crying crocodile tears for an idiot who confessed to having invaded USG computers yet hoped he could walk away without any punishment. Nope, not gonna happen & you know what? He deserves a harsh punishment now for all the bull he has put everyone through attempting to avoid taking responsibility for his acts.
He was stoned while hacking? So what, If I drive drunk the fact that I was drunk excuses nothing.
He has aspergers? So what, he was still aware of the difference between right & wrong & committed the crimes anyway.
He exposed unprotected computers? He also crashed a number of them trying to cover his tracks which adds to the fact that he knew that he was breaking the law.
At every point in this whole story, when McKinnon was presented with a choice, he chose to dig himself even deeper into a hole.
Ah, and as for that "lopsided" extradition treaty, the UK refuses to extradite more than the US does:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/12/extradition-requests-us-uk-statistics
You had me up until this:
Yeah, like Alzheimer's, which is just what we used to call "people getting old and forgetting shit". Mental retardation? That's just "bein' slow". Dyslexia? "Illiterate moron". And "schizophrenia", hell, that's just what we used to call "possessed by demons".
Like "depression". That's not really a "disease". Ever hear of a "depression virus"? Hah! I thought not! Made up psycho bullshit! And everybody knows there's no such thing as "bipolar disorder". I mean, if it's a real "disease", where is the "vaccine"? Why aren't doctors working on a "bipolar jab"? Hey, it's almost winter: better get your seasonal bipolar shot!
I tell you, man, these psychiatrists and their made-up bullshit "diseases" ... It's almost as if the word "disease" meant something other than what you want it to mean:
"1) He may go to prison for sixty years ... "
60 years is so vanishingly unlikely that to say so without reference to actual sentencing guidelines might generously be described as principled storytelling.
He turned down a few months inside (because he or his lawyers don't trust U.S. judges to honor plea deals, apparently) -- and others in his position don't get more than a few years anyway.
We know Aspergers for some is eccentricity and fashionable diagnosis, but for others is a severe disability. We can accept that both groups exist and that it isn't clear, exactly, where McKinnon is on the spectrum.
These reports don't say how severe his is, unfortunately, which leaves a knowledge gap that's easy to fill with cynical thoughts of how legally convenient it is.
He turned down a few months inside (because he or his lawyers don't trust U.S. judges to honor plea deals, apparently) -- and others in his position don't get more than a few years anyway.
I appreciate the rationale behind plea bargains, but (and I think this is a common British sentiment) I have difficulty understanding how a system that bullies innocent people into declaring their guilt is regarded as justice.
pity.
i was so hoping to read his gleaned data on wikileaks
"I have difficulty understanding how a system that bullies innocent people into declaring their guilt is regarded as justice."
See, that's the weird part: Gary M.'s publicly admitted all the salient claims. So he's pre-emptively screwed at trial, will almost certainly plead guilty at whatever venue he ends up at, but has turned down an unusually light sentence. My suspicion is that he's being manipulated by people upset at the extradition treaty: they're not fighting for him, they're selling a miscarriage of justice and have an interest in one being seen to occur.
is this a tea party ?
pitchforks at the back ?
what about the possibility that exogenic energy harvesters are being suppressed ?
anyway hes from glasgow so just yous try and come and get him ?
Just cos yous can extradite english doesn't mean yous can mess around with Scotland. A lot of people from here are dying in wars it seems the US started.
So just back off our Gary right!
... will almost certainly plead guilty at whatever venue he ends up at, but has turned down an unusually light sentence ... he's being manipulated by people upset at the extradition treaty
I think you're right, but I think that the British / US disconnect might explain some of the weirdness. The idea that the sentence for a guilty plea could depend on whether you've made a deal beforehand is a really foreign concept to someone who is only familiar with the British system. It's possible that he actually has good faith in the US courts and finds it hard to understand how his sentencing could depend on anything other than history, character and the facts of the case.
The extradition and charge of damages are laughable, to say the least. If someone with as much free time on their hands as Mr. McKinnon had gotten into a U.S. military computer system without social engineering, etc. I shudder at who could have done the same and beyond what McKinnon did. From what I gather it seems to be an amateur opening up a remote session and guessing passwords manually.
This isn't justice, this is vengeance. The U.S. military is trying to save face for their horrible compsec practices.
He doesn't have to understand how plea deals and sentencing works in the U.S. That's why he has lawyers.
Your crack at the British press for their portrayal of Asperger's Sufferers - is itself kind of unfortunate. It reinforces a frame that's been set by the opposition.
While some may truly suffer from having that condition, others are fighting to have it simply be a condition that may or may not cause suffering.
Neurodiversity can be abused, but it's not bullshit. If there are homosexuals who never do anything else wrong, except violate the taboo against homosexuality, can't there be people with an Asperger's condition who are OK to be left as they are?
He turned down a few months inside (because he or his lawyers don't trust U.S. judges to honor plea deals, apparently)
Actually, it's a pretty predictable decision for someone with Asperger. Things are generally black and white, on or off. His plea status may be as much a part of his mental state as a psychotic defendant pleading not guilty on the grounds of being Cleopatra.
All your Hacz0rs are belong to US.
Why even bother with the extradition? Just send in the seals and 'extradite' him in a hessain sack. HOO-AH!
Maybe the USA is planning ahead. I guess if they ever run out of minorities they can start to populate their prisons with aliens.
And with a 56k modem too! TEAM MCKINNON; GO!!!
Just read (for the first time) a few dozen articles on this case, and here's a few observations:
Better a British UFO-conspiracy nut expose blank and default passwords. After all, what's the alternative? The financial assessment of their 'fix' was necessary work, not on his head.
Here's how America does treaties: they write something up, get everyone to sign it, and then maybe it becomes law later if their senate and congress ever gets around to it. Even after that all happens, it is frequently ignored whenever it might be slightly inconvenient to American interests (see: Canadian softwood lumber, which should be protected by NAFTA but mysteriously isn't)
Seriously who would trust the US justice system when it comes to charges involving National Security? When judges have to get themselves re-elected they're much more likely to be biased against individuals accused of this sort of crime so that they can keep their job at the next election.
A video interview with Gary by a UFO blog convinced me that he earnestly believed that the United States had extraterrestrial officers and that he had stumbled onto something big and interplanetary.
The Girl from the interview asks at the end if what you believe you saw is correct you must be very afraid for yourself.
To which he replied yes.
Meet him for yourself here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fNsah-0vpY
Anyway leave him alone.
He may or may not be a nut but hes our bloody nut, right.
@"during a war" - stop calling the Bandar Bush Saudi Quagmire a war.
I think there is not a citizen of the UK is glad about the ONE WAY ONLY extradition treaty.
Oh yeh and the kidnap and rendition and torture and internment in Gauntanamo of UK citizens eventually released uncharged - all that too.
That aside Gary should just get a hacking fine as he would under UK law.
Stop treating us like crap - we have lost many being your allies in your bushite wars.
Obama should pardon this man.
This is a case about a single man and his life.
Use your human judgement.
ooh, good point anonymous.
no. not that one!
It's OT but I see your point.
I'm beginning to wonder anonymous comments are generally allowed on BB at all. It's one thing when someone wants to admit to something where discretion may be called for but just to make old-fashioned standard salient comments? What's the point? It just confuses people at a certain point.