A group of college students were unhappy with the poor service they received, so when the bill came, they didn't pay the tip. The restaurant called the cops and the students were arrested.
College students arrested for not tipping
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College students arrested for not tipping
A group of college students were unhappy with the poor service they received, so when the bill came, they didn't pay the tip. The restaurant called the cops and the students were arrested.... More.
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I can only imagine that they were a large enough group that there was a tip automatically added?
Check out all the new reviews on Yelp: http://www.yelp.com/biz/lehigh-pub-bethlehem
tipping is a strange concept to a New Zealander in a country that's never heard of tipping
As far as I'm concerned, the tip isn't optional- it's the cost of the service provided. That said, I can't really approve of this. We have a custom of tipping in the US that allows you to withhold all or a portion of the tip for any reason, and whether this is right or not, you can't arrest people for following the custom. Otherwise the charge should be printed and displayed prominently in the establishment.
In other countries/businesses the service is included as a fee, charge, or incorporated into the prices. Sometimes I wish the American tipping custom would be superceded by these means- for the benefit of the employees mainly, but also for the benefit of the consumer and to stem the tide of tip inflation. (IIRC, 15% used to be standard)
Restaurants, like other businesses here, have to simply pay their staff a living wage.
"The menu clearly states, "18 percent gratuity added to check of parties of 6 of more," and a similar message is printed on receipts, a pub employee said this morning."
If you don't like that policy (lack of control over tip), don't eat there with more than 6 people. They should pay.
If I ordered a bottle of wine and it never came, I wouldn't pay for it--would you? It sounds as if "service" was billed for, but never showed up at the table. If they're going to bill for something, it seems legit to not pay if it doesn't show up.
Twice I've had a restaurant try to add a mandatory tip to my bill. Both times, I would have tipped, and tipped more, if the bill had been presented normally (without tip added). Both times I raised a stink and had the tip removed. The meaning of the word "tip" is in the process of changing - from "a sum of money added to the bill to reward and encourage good service" to "a surcharge the restaurant expects you to pay in addition to the prices posted." Resist!
Make sure that you read the linked-to article. In this case, the menu said in writing that for a large party the tip was mandatory. That means they owed the money. Now, a decent restaurant will usually make some accommodation, like taking something off the bill, if the diners had a bad experience and they raised a complaint.
This is infuriating. A gratuity cannot be mandatory. If the court upholds the charge, the judge should be thrown out. The students should be compensated by the restaurant for this idiotic treatment.
Gratuity (from dictionary.com):
1. a gift of money, over and above payment due for service, as to a waiter or bellhop; tip.
2. something given without claim or demand.
I seem to recall something about larger groups of people being worse tippers, on average, than smaller groups. If this has been the restaurant's experience (or is their belief) than I can see why they might institute a mandatory gratuity for larger groups.
They shouldn't, though.
Eating out is an endeavour that involves some risk. You're not sure about the quality of either the service or the food. Tipping accomplishes two interrelated things: first, it reduces the risk of getting a bad meal or bad service by making a certain percentage of the bill dependent on the server's (and kitchen's) performance. Second, it transfers the risk to the server, giving them a reason to provide good service.
Mandatory tipping removes that control from the customer by putting 100% of the bill under the restaurant's control. The server has no incentive to perform well (as evidenced by the customers' report in the article), and therefore the customer adopts all of the risk. It's not fair play, and if I ran into it, I wouldn't go back (but I'd pay the bill, 'cause I'm a wimp).
(This analysis was simplified and stolen from: Holland, Steven (2009) Tipping as risk sharing. Journal of Socio-Economics, Vol 38(4): 641-7.)
Unfortunately it's a terribly gray situation. As a former waiter, I understand the need for a certainly level of "security" as far as tipping is concerned. There are certain people who insist on coming into a restaurant 2 minutes before close, sending their order back three times just for kicks, sitting for three hours until nearly the break of dawn, and then not leaving a tip. However if I were to buy a brand new television only to arrive home and find it broken in the box, I would expect not to have to pay for it. In this case the service - as a billed product in the receipt - was broken as well. Unfortunately whereas a television is obviously broken when it does not turn on, broken service is subjective.
I find this one difficult. One one hand, they don't earn a descent living wage, making up for it in tips. Those tips should be based on individual performance, and not dictated by management. This is more about groups of 6 or more. Groups often require more attention. More so if they want separate bills. I would not have a problem at all if they charged a small fee (maybe 5%) for groups of 6 or more (still going to wait staff) and THEN a tip on top of that. You'll still get a-holes and bad tippers and non tippers and the like, but, jerks are everywhere.
First of all, the title of the article is inaccurate. The students were arrested for not paying their bill, not for failure to tip. The policy of the restaurant was to add a service charge to all parties of a certain size, they refused to pay it. You are not entitled to a money-back guarantee when you go to a restaurant any more than you are when you buy a box of kleenex, a pair of shoes or an airplane ticket. You have to pay all the fees agreed to.
Secondly, restaurants and bars in the US in most states can and often do pay their servers as little as $2.13 an hour and often tax them for a certain percentage of their sales and require them to "tip out" bussers and bartenders. For example, when I worked at a large chain restaurant as a cocktail waitress I was paid $2.13 an hour, was required to report 10% of my sales as income for tax purposes, and was required to give 3% of my sales in cash to my manager at the end of every shift to be distributed between the food runners and the bartenders. This was all perfectly legal. So if you were to come sit at my table, use my services and not tip me, I would be paying for the privilege of waiting on you. An automatic gratuity for large parties is one way of making sure servers don't starve and restaurants get to keep this sweet deal going.
It's a messed up system.
At the end of the day, I see this as a case of a restaurant setting out their policies and fees clearly and a customer refusing to pay. They took the uncommon but totally kosher route of taking legal action.
Pretty much every restaurant in the US has a paragraph at the bottom of the menu that says that a 15% gratuity will be added for parties of five or more. It's utterly and completely standard. Your waiter gets paid $3 per hour if you don't tip. A waiter with a big party might not have any other tables. It's not your waiter's fault if the kitchen is slow, and big parties slow down the kitchen.
Can I come to your job and tell your boss to cut your pay in half for the day because you didn't fulfill my expectations?
Two points. First, if parties of six or more are obliged to tip, then waitstaff are largely relieved of any incentive to provide service to parties of six or more. That seems to have been at work here. Second, the restaurant risks the Streisand Effect. Broadcast to the general public that you're going go provide lousy service to large parties and haul your customers to court, *AA style, and don't be surprised if your restaurant doesn't get so many large parties in the future. The intent may be to convince customers to pony up in the future; the effect will be to send customers elsewhere.
Then don't call it a "gratuity", it's oxymoronic.
That's just bad judgment on the part of the students, and sensationalism on the part of the reporter. They agreed to a contract, and then didn't uphold their end of it. The restaurant probably over reacted, but it was in the scope of the law. I've been in a big party and received appalling service. We spoke to the manager and told him that the service was appalling, could he please remove the tip, and he did. We left $4 instead of $14.37 because we felt that's what the service we got was worth. In my experience, however, Americans are very good with tips (as opposed to people from countries where tipping is less common or rooted into the social structure). You get the occasional asshole who doesn't tip, but generally, people do. At least I think so.
At least three times in recent memory, when dining with a large group, the waiter (herein used as a gender neutral term) has made a point of informing the group that the stated policy of adding 15% to the check for large groups had NOT been applied. In every such case, the waiter earned considerably more than 15% for leaving the choice of gratuity to the party. The fact that waiters in my neck of the woods can choose to apply (or not) the policy stated on the menu tells me that the policy is optional.
@#6: It states that a gratuity was added. The word "mandatory" was not included. If it is mandatory, it should be called a "service fee," as is common in many restaurants. The official definition of gratuity implies something given by choice, and most people share this view as well.
@mechko: The establishment could be said to be breaking its end of the contract as well. Adding a mandatory service fee comes with the burden of providing good service. It the service was inadequate, then their part of the contract has not been met.
Sorry, I don't think I was clear. My comment was somewhat muddy and that's my fault. Remember I said that tipping is pretty much required in my first sentence, but I'm not responsible for the fact that "pretty much" isn't "definitely", I didn't set up the pay-structure that allows patrons the power to stiff. I'm well aware that they make below minimum wage and I'm simply saying that the current tipping system may not be ideal. We should pay them more (automatic mandatory service charge on the check) and institute a pure gratuity system, where a tip is given for exceptional service.
I also meant to add "DNRTFA" to my comment, but totally forgot. After RTFAing I realize it was explicitly printed policy. In which case, not paying and getting outraged over being arrested is douchebagtastic. That said the article is unclear on whether the police gave the patrons the opportunity to pay the charge and avoid arrest.
Wow, they seem to have decimated their Yelp rating even more completely than I would have predicted. Woe to the business that incurs the wrath of the internets.
it comes down to this. pay with a credit card and charge back. tell them thats what you will do and state so on the recipe. they get zero
Does anyone know of any studies (with decent methodology) that look into what percentage of the population actually obeys the social norm of tipping? It'd be interesting to know whether the practice works.
I hear stories of people not tipping all the time, but anecdotal evidence doesn't hold much water.
Only in America...
In other countries, waitstaff are paid hourly, dictated by minimum wage laws which ensure they're paid fairly for their time. If I'm not mistaken, the US is the only country in the world where waitstaff are allowed to be paid in tips only... I suppose it goes along with the fundamental capitalist idea of "every man for himself", but in the end, unless people are generous, it amounts to slave labor. In civilized free countries, tips are considered optional, only given when the waitstaff has performed exemplary service worthy of reward. Tips in my country are completely optional, and if I've been treated like shit at a restaurant you'd better believe I'm leaving no tip.
I suppose in a lot of ways this sort of prevalent attitude in the US explains why so many are opposed to "socialized" health care...
@Boondocker
I think a lot of it might be the availability heuristic. You tend to remember extraordinary situations much more than the ordinary. By that I don't mean that there are only a few non-tippers, but almost definitely less than you would believe from listening to stories from waiters (gender neutral). Not to say that the waiters are lying or misrepresenting either. It is just more memorable when someone leaves $0 than when someone leaves 15% (you do the type conversion in your head :D)
@anonymous
I'm not disputing that the restaurant didn't meet its end of the contract, but I think it's important to take all legal avenues (or have sufficient proof of the futility of such an action) before one makes an extra-legal maneuver. After all, what we want is for the system to work fairly, not be destroyed.
Well, regardless of whether or not this was justified, the Lehigh Pub now has a nationwide reputation for poor service and arresting its customers.
Pretty remarkable when you think about it.
"You are not entitled to a money-back guarantee when you go to a restaurant any more than you are when you buy a box of kleenex, a pair of shoes or an airplane ticket."
Au contraire! There are consumer protection laws in place in most states, and you are in fact entitled to a money back guarantee on any purchase, including kleenexes, shoes, or an airline ticket. Even contracts are required to have "cooling off" periods of 48-72 hours in most states. New car purchases can also be cancelled within that period, even if you've put miles on the previously brand new car.
And that's with the product meeting all the expected levels of functionality or fitness of purpose. You have even more rights if the product does not meet reasonable standards.
Now, whether or not that applies to a service is another issue entirely. But your claim about no entitlement was just plain incorrect.
Honestly, though, this seems like a case of both sides being assholes - I'm sure they could have come to an agreement.
Serving a large table (6+) is a far more difficult task than serving 2-4 people. You must accomodate six different people, where they sit at the table, and who ordered what food and drink. Service may seem slower, and if they got a bill, Im assuming they consumed what was on the bill. They should have asked management to lower the auto gratuity with their explanation, but someone got them drunk/fed and probably was left a gigantic mess as a slap in the face. If you don't want to tip someone for basically being your dinner servant, stay home and do it yourself.
@#2
A couple interesting things about their Yelp page...
First, obviously they have a ton of negative reviews. However take a look at any regular restaurant in your area...notice how there is a graph of the distribution of ratings on the main page? Not so for this place. Yelp seems to be trying to hide the MASSIVE number of negative reviews by only making that graph accessible by clicking the very generically named "Rating Details" link near the top next to where it says they have one star and 312 reviews.
Second, be sure to check out all the pics of the restaurant. Lets just say people have gotten a little creative with the images that were submitted.
Isn't tipping kinda.... outdated? In other countries people actually get paid for their work and shouldn't rely on gifts from others.
Has anyone commenting on this article ever actually worked in a restaurant? Because I'm sorry, but YOU people try waiting on half a dozen 6tops on a busy night - for practically nothing an hour. Most waiters don't make shit, and damn well deserve a mandatory gratuity when that much extra work is required, especially from college students who, generally speaking, will tip as little as they can possibly get away with - not infrequently nothing at all - regardless of the quality of the service.
The self-righteous upper-middle-class "God forbid a servant earn more than a pittance an hour if the wine isn't on time" attitude makes me sick. Try looking at it from the other person's point of view.
I can understand the restaurant's position - but in this day and age (and given the yelp-rage they are now getting) you'd think that they'd have just let it go (whether they were right or not) instead of creating the PR disaster they have.
Yelp has gone down.
Coincidence?
Anonymous | #29:
Isn't this what pads of paper are for? Most of the places I've been to don't bother remembering who ordered what, they just ask (I don't mind).
I really can't see how serving 6 people at 6 tables is any easier than 6 people at one.
Either it's a gratuity or it's a service charge.
If it's a gratuity, then they have the option to not pay it.
If it's a service charge, then the restaurant is obligated to deliver the service. If they didn't, they don't get paid.
Either way, I don't see this ending well for the restaurant. Google says this has happened before, and the restaurants involved have lost in court.
Why does the number of people sitting together matter? The restaurant is licensed for a fixed number of guests. What difference does it make if 6 enter as a group or three pairs enter at the same time? If the level of service changes its due to the way the waiters are managed.
As a rule I do not tip as I believe that the practice results in the owners not paying their staff enough and encouraging tax fiddle by the employees. I have also herd of managers taking the tips themselves.
I did tip recently in a cafe in Hebden Bridge, I was the only customer and the service was excellent, so I am a hypocrite (but I don't mind).
It is universally understood (but often it seems like the US is in a universe of its own) that a tip is a gift added on top of your bill in order to compliment the staff for a good service.
I don't fucking care if you as a waiter have to work your socks off to serve a big party. That is not my problem. Neither it is if you get paid a pittance.
If you are being exploited, don't take the job, or join an union, or start one, or do whatever you need to do to get properly paid, but don't tell me it is an obligation for me to give you a *gratuity*.
Restaurants could of course have different menus with different prices (groups of 6 or more? pass the expensive menu around, groups of 5 or less, given them the one with cheaper prices).
Angry post about your attitude mostly deleted. Two things remain:
1) Some people still tip, every time, regardless of class or income. You are overgeneralizing, and it makes you look stupid.
2) You want better wages? Address the fact that it's your employer who's screwing you first and most consistently.
@GraemeM: The reason why a single large party is harder than the same number of people in smaller groups should be obvious: scale. More meals that have to be ready at the same time, more stuff that needs to get to the table at once. And even if the vast majority of orders are right, prepared correctly, done at the same time as the others in their party, etc., the larger the party, the larger the probability that something will go wrong.
That said, I think the way these students were treated is terrible. The pub should have offered them a concession, and if they didn't accept that, they should have taken no "gratuity" at all. Acting the way they did will only cause them bad publicity.
@GraemeM: "I really can't see how serving 6 people at 6 tables is any easier than 6 people at one."
Timing. Part of service is ensuring that everyone in a party enjoys their meals at a similar pace. It is quite unacceptable, for example, for one person to given his meal before all others. The more people in a party, the more things they order, the longer it takes to prepare everything, but you still have to ensure that their things arrive within a reasonable time.
Re: semantics, "gratuity" is just an accepted term for the traditional addition to a bill for service, though usually at the patron's discretion. I agree it's not as accurate as "service fee" but we all know what it's supposed to refer to.
Oh and of course, groups generally take longer to vacate the premises, which means the tables can't be freed up as soon as smaller parties.
These students really need to see Reservoir Dogs.
Bad argument. Why in christ's name waitstaff constantly complain about bad tippers instead of fighting against a system that compels them to work for less than minimum wage is beyond me.
It's a completely absurd situation, and if it had been tried in an industry with more solidarity it would've been shut down in a heartbeat.
My boss doesn't get to pay me half my salary and tell people who use my software "Don't forget to tip your programmer!" It's fucking outrageous.
Direct your anger where it belongs.
I tip 10% even when i have terrible, surly, incompetent service and 20+ most of the time, because I know this shitty system exists, but I shouldn't have to, and waiters shouldn't have to put up with being paid slave wages.
I was in a similar situation with a group of diners once. Service was terrible (long wait for food, they forgot about our appetizers completely, restaurant was out of rolls, etc) and when the bill came we explained that we weren't comfortable with the 15% gratuity being automatically added to the bill. They asked why, we explained, and the management waived the mandatory tip. We left a 10% tip anyway because they were gracious enough to apologize for the bad service.
That's how any reasonable restaurant would have reacted to this situation- act like a mature adult and things tend to work out for the better. Act like an asshole and the world will treat you like one.
I think looking at the mandatory 18% on large parties makes sense, IF the waitstaff holds up their end of the deal.
What if you bought shingles from a hardware store and paid a percentage of that cost to have them installed. Then, your service was delayed two weeks and when the installation was finally complete, half the shingles were at a wonky angle. Tell me you wouldn't expect the hardware store to either remove the service charge entirely or at least discount it. You would be within your right to receive that since the hardware store didn't hold up their end of the bargain.
The situation should have been handled like this: the management should have stepped in and apologized for the inconvenience. The restaurant should have removed the tip entirely from the bill, comped the appetizers, and sent the kids on their way. Sounds like the management at this place sucks more than the waitress did, in my opinion, especially if the place was understaffed because of mismanagement.
Should people be able to skip a tip for a large group because they don't feel like paying for service they received? NO. But no one should have to pay for a service not rendered or done so poorly? Absolutely not.
Word UP. Preach it!
I agree the low-wage/tip combination for US restaurant staff is broken, but the way to correct that is NOT for restaurant owners to extort more money from their customers.
I wonder if there is a legal definition of "gratuity" and "service charge".
I believe that a gratuity is voluntary, and as such can be adjusted by the customer. A service charge, once accepted, cannot be declined, as it is now part of the contract for service.
If it's labeled a gratuity, the customers should be able to adjust it. It is, after all, a completely voluntary reward for services rendered, and therefore at the customer's discretion.trai
Tips are a scam. If you want to sell something to me, you make a big sign, an you write on it the amount i have to pay.
I dont fucking care how many percents taxes and service and whatnot are. You do the adding, you tell me the total price, and i tell you if i buy.
If you cant even tell me how much money i have to give in exchange for your product, you obviously suck at selling it, and your product probably is no good either.
@Gloria 41 - Seriously "We don't all know" it's the internet after all, where I'm from tips are given for exemplary service they aren't mandatory/expected. Percentages added to the bill of large parties are called service charges and at good employers go directly to the wait staff who handled the large party. You can't have a mandatory gratuity it's nonsensical.
However saying that the students are from the area they were eating in and "should" know what's expected by their cultural norms. Also they read it before they ordered. Therefore I believe they are in the wrong. Restaurant still shouldn't have called it a gratuity though and unless this is a deliberate attempt to chase off large parties of diners in preference to small ones I think they're seriously dumb.
As a rule I do not tip as I believe that the practice results in the owners not paying their staff enough and encouraging tax fiddle by the employees.
As a rule, I don't feed my slaves because I disagree with slavery. Seriously, dude, stay home. If you're hungry, just yell up the cellar stairs for Mom to bring you a hot pocket.
"the establishment tacked what it called a mandatory 18 percent gratuity onto the bill"
Gratuities are of necessity gratuitous, unnecessary, optional.
If it's mandatory, it's a charge, not a gratuity. And if it's a charge, then it's for a good or service, and if the good or service is not delivered or not of acceptable quality, the charge for it may legitimately be disputed.
I'll just throw in that I live in Canada, where waiters do get paid better than I understand they do in the States. A tip here really is a tip (not that anyone worth knowing would refrain from tipping unless service was so bad as to be essentially nonexistent or even worse than nothing).
The US system where, as I understand it, restaurants grossly underpay or in some cases don't pay their waiters at all, seems horrible to me. Restaurants that are too cheap to pay waiters should just fess up and not have waiters. Restaurants with table service are more expensive, and if that extra cost isn't because of the expense of hiring waiters, then it seems like basically a fraud.
We can have the Reservoir Dogs argument all day long- but the facts are pretty simple. A tip is voluntary, not mandatory. If a restaurant adds it to the bill, that does not constitute a legal contract between anyone- it's simply a policy someone started that lots of restaurant owners jumped on. A tip, by definition, is an EXTRA, VOLUNTARY amount given because you, the customer, want to reward their service. Or give it for whatever reason you want, or don't give it at all- it's certainly not the law's business, or anyone else's.
I sympathize with waiters. The system is bullshit, and I always leave good tips because I know what it's like and I realize they NEED my money in order to live. This is a completely separate issue from having a bunch of cops arrest you because you didn't do something you have no legal duty to do. How can anyone argue to the contrary? In reference to the arrest, who cares WHY the students didn't tip? who cares HOW MUCH money the waiters are making? It still doesn't justify an arrest! Jesus, is someone seriously arguing the opposite? Maybe the students were broke, as I was, in college. Maybe they're rich, spoiled brats. Maybe waiters there rake in a shitload of money. Maybe they don't. "Maybe maybe maybe" has nothing to do with the abuse of law in this country.
I don't fucking care if you as a waiter have to work your socks off to serve a big party. That is not my problem. Neither it is if you get paid a pittance.
It is not your problem, only as long as you don't encourage the exploitation by patronizing the business.
A more pronounced expression of the same principle:
If you knowingly buy goods made by brutally repressed slave labourers in a third world country, you don't get to say "It's not my problem that slavery exists in these places. Amnesty International should just quit whining to me about fair trade products."
The worst point about morons like Graeme who do not tip is that your taxable income as a server is *assuming* 10-15% tip on your cash revenues. So if someone tips you with a credit card, the system notes that amount as income and reports it for income tax purposes. When you don't get a tip on a cash table, you get fucked both ways - your income from that table is assumed btw 10-15, AND you never got the money from the [cheap table who treats you like a slave / table that your bad service ruined].
If you sit down to a table to eat and get served by someone, tip them. That's called having manners, unless the service is terrible or otherwise something has gone wrong.
If you can't be bothered to tip, go to McDonalds, where the staff gets minimum wage of 4.75 per hour(higher than server wage of 2.67 per hour) and do nothing more than process your payment and hand you a bag of food.
There's no excuse; you are a boor whose parents failed in teaching basic manners. Your clever excuses for taking advantage of a grey area with underpaid staff still makes you a cheap asshole if not a criminal asshole.
Call me cheap, but I agree with "Mr. Pink"-- end all tipping and pay the help more. IF they really do an outstanding job I will gladly slip them something extra under the table.
As of July 24, 2009, wait staff must make the minimum hourly wage ($58/8 hr shift). If tips aren't covering the $5.12 difference per hour, the employer must pay the remainder. Wroughtirony's (former?) employer may be breaking the law if they still force wait staff to fork over 3% of their tip money to other staff, depending on how busy the place is on a given day.
This whole absurdist system could easily be rectified by requiring a single minimum wage to be applied equally to all occupations, and restaurants charging appropriately adjusted prices for food and drinks. We already pay more at a sit-down restaurant due to the additional time that we occupy space to consume food that is prepared at a slower pace. If there's a need to adjust prices a bit further upward to make a uniform minimum wage work, then that's what should happen.
Well, I apologize for that. That said, if you or anyone else were confused by the "gratuity" terminology, it's not only explained in the article and also explicitly stated on the bill as "mandatory."
"Restaurant still shouldn't have called it a gratuity though"
No, I agree restaurants should just be rational about it and call it a service fee. That said, I don't think it's as big a deal as some people are treating it, as if the students should be allowed to deny the charge not because of something justifiable like bad service, but because of the *name.* That's all.
But that said, I think tipping in Canada -- can't speak for the American system -- is pretty much mandatory, out of social expectations, unless the service is atrocious. Unless you were subjected to verbal insults or sat there for three hours with no food, tipping nothing is a fairly extreme statement to make.
@51: Liquour servers -- which is how we define restaurant servers, because fast food workers are not in a traditional tipping situation and are paid the minimum wage -- are still paid less than the standard provincial minimum wage, at least in Ontario. Min. wage is $9.50 for most workers, whereas servers get $8.25 -- which is less than student workers.
Agreed on all points. Don't like the system? Don't go out to eat. Or pick a restaurant that has different employment practises -- there are some.
I've made the argument that if you thought the service was so awful, why not address it directly by either speaking to the server, who may try to rectify the problem, or if they're not helpful, management? And I've gotten the response that it could happen that the restaurant simply fires the server.
First, I find that kind of extreme and unlikely, unless the server was treating you really objectionably -- verbal insult, racism, sexism, etc.
Second, what do you think you're doing by withholding a tip? You're hurting the server's income and livelihood.
Third, if the service was so bad you're willing to take bread away from someone's mouth, you can get up and confront it too.
Fourth, if you don't bring up the server's problems, he/she may go and keep providing terrible service to all customers, which adversely affects the restaurant if people start staying away. And trust me, sometimes all it takes is one bad experience is swear off a place.
Fifth, I find lower tips too ambiguous a criticism. What if they think you're just a cheapskate?
charging "service fees", which are now commonplace in EVERYTHING from tickets to banks, is ridiculous! besides, there is an actual value to the original concept of tipping- a way to show gratitude, a way to acknowledge that this person is doing more than the minimum to improve your experience. Switching to a mandatory service fee is just another symptom of our messed up values, placing profit first and human gratitude and service second. It's not "wow, thanks for that tip," it's "you asshole, I'm ENTITLED to that tip." Add to that the fact that we live in an increasingly multicultural world, and every culture has a different concept of "tipping", and this whole thing becomes even more ridiculous.
The answer is pretty simple, as others have suggested- waiters get paid the same as anyone else in a comparable job. People are then released from this dumb, socially-mandated custom. Foreigners visiting a country are no longer despised by the waitstaff for "being cheap"; college students don't feel embarrassed for being broke, uncle sam gets it's cut, waiters aren't forced to lie about how much they earn in order to make ends meet, and prices reflect the actual cost of everything.
And then, if you really love that waitress, you can give her a little extra. Is that so hard?
I don't really buy that. The way I see it, the standard 15% tip -- fair in Toronto, at least -- IS part of the "real" cost of your meal.
Because if everything you ate at a restaurant went up a little in cost in order to cover a server's wages, is that not something mandatory, for everyone? A required "fee" you have to pay?
The difference now is that fee is left up to the customer's discretion, and guess what, people don't seem to like it anyway. People hate the concept of tipping overall.
And imposing the fee -- tacking it on the bill instead of merely upping all the prices -- clearly sets consumers off. But it's the same if the restaurant passed on higher salary costs. So what's the problem here?
I think the real problem here is that people don't like that the gratuity practise includes judgment of service. They don't like that they have to scrutinize a server, and they don't like being judged for how much of a tip they leave. Logically, I think, they would *like* having it taken out of their hands, and be relieved of the burden, but this comment thread demonstrates people hate the idea of a mandatory service fee too.
I think my view is simple: Anything you pay beyond a universally agreed standard percentage is the true "gratuity." Paying beyond that standard now speaks the same volumes as you tipping in the future when servers are paid a higher wage and tipping is no longer expected.
"Foreigners visiting a country are no longer despised by the waitstaff for "being cheap"; college students don't feel embarrassed for being broke, uncle sam gets it's cut, waiters aren't forced to lie about how much they earn in order to make ends meet, and prices reflect the actual cost of everything."
If you're broke, don't go out and eat. If you can't afford a tip, you can't afford how much a meal would cost if a server was paid a better wage.
When I visit a foreign country and eat out, I make a point of finding out what local practises are.
Three ideas from a waiter/delivery driver:
1) Bad service doesn't deserve a tip, regardless of group size. If I am off enough to provide bad service, I'm probably not expecting the tip anyway. And as a customer, if the service is terrible, I don't want to toss my money (that I earned by being an attentive server) away for nothing. Anyway, I know that the server will make up the money later, when he or she can provide the proper service.
2) I'm guessing large-group mandatory gratuities net less cash than an optional would anyway. I know friends I'm out with sometimes pony up the 15 or whatever percent instead of the four or five bucks they would have otherwise.
3) I agree with the posters who point out that the mandatory gratuity for service not properly rendered is essentially a charge for something that never came. If I forgot to bring out somebody's entree, I wouldn't charge them for it.
Mandatory gratuity = oxymoron.
If you don't leave a tip, you deserve to get arrested. In this country, livable wages for servers depend on customers leaving consistent gratuities. Lots of commenters on here make this out to be the servers' problem, saying they shouldn't have taken the job if they don't like the wages, or that they should form unions.
This stance reeks of privilege and plain ignorance. You admit that the system deprives people of livable wages and, in the same breath, deny that as a consumer you have any complicity in this.
How about this? If you don't intend to leave a fair tip 100% of the time, don't go to a restaurant. Ever.
A tip isn't a gift. It's what you pay for your service. If you stiff the wait person you cheat them out of getting paid for serving you. People who are not willing to pay to get waited on should stick to fast food restaurants or eat at home.
@DonBito:
If you don't intend to leave a fair tip 100% of the time, don't go to a restaurant. Ever.
A fair tip for service like that described in this article is zero. (And I used to work jobs that depended on tips.)
I don't understand what you're saying at all. If prices go up on a menu, which they do, all the time, we now pay higher prices, or stop going to the restaurant. I'm not sure why you're trying to rope tipping into that basic economic model- they're 2 distinct things.
People do not hate tipping at all. I think people hate what tipping has become, which is this hypocritical mandatory / not mandatory thing, because it's so contradictory. It's not mandatory, but the government taxes waiters as if it's a given. Huh? It's not mandatory, except you're a cheapskate if you don't do it. Here in NYC, people LOVE to tip- they take great pride in leaving a good chunk of change for their waiters, because going out to eat is something they do almost daily, and they enjoy the time spent with friends eating, drinking, and talking. I know that's not representative of the entire world, but I wouldn't say people hate tipping- doing anything nice for someone always makes us feel good- the problem is that tipping has now lost this value. If a restaurant adds it to the bill, and now if cops are going to arrest you, it's no longer something nice that you do- it's simply another money-centric practice of our society.
Finally, there is no universally-standard agreement on tipping- that's another reason people "hate tipping". In NYC, 20% is standard. Often, people pay more. In most of the world, 0% is standard, or 0 plus a few coins. In lots of the US, 15% is standard, but many people round down a bit. And since none of this is written down anywhere, how do you get to involve THE LAW, which is all about writing shit down in black-and-white?
I'm not sure why you're not arguing simply for waiters to get paid a real wage, and be done with all this contradictory pseudo-legality we've created. Seems like it would take care of every issue people have brought up in this discussion, including your own. I'm truly puzzled by this entire thread.
I also wanted to make a generalization.
Most college students will go on to make much more money than a waitress.
I think this incident is indicative of our societal class gap; what rich people would call a "small amount of money" might be what a poor waitress might call "some food money".
If you can afford to go to college, you can afford to pay your tip.
I think people are missing something here, in regards to the 'living wage' for the waitstaff, and the actual effect of tipping or not on the part of the customer.
I want to note first that I have been involved in the service industry for quite some time, both in jobs where I needed tips and ones that _never_ get tips.
1) When you go to work, or even apply for work, as waitstaff, one might expect you know that part of your income will be derived from tips. Part of your mindset has to be 'I must excel at my job to make good money.'
2) If you can't make a living providing a service, it is your own fault. My tips ran about 15% of my sales always, even factoring in non-tippers, because there really are people who will tip extra for better service. I even had people request tables in my section, because they knew I'd work to earn that extra bit.
3) In this specific instance, the restaurant was actually claiming that the server deserved (apparently) about 10 bucks an hour, even though the customers were not pleased. That's quite a bit over minimum wage, and if the server worked at McDonald's and was caught smoking out back instead of working the counter when the customers were there, I would expect the manager to put up the old 'help wanted' sign.
This last point really is the most irritating: that server might be the worst in the restaurant, but got guaranteed money just because the "large" party was seated where they were. If there had been a better waiter (like you all, I'll say 'gender neutral', but I think that's a little too much PC awkwardness), serving a smaller party or none at all, that person would be righteously pissed about 'rewarding' poor service.
And for you waitstaff you whine and moan about tables of six, instead of thinking how nice it is to have all those customers (AKA: potential income) at once, you need to find another job. I can tell you horror stories about tables of two, and have had (but not always) wonderful experiences with huge dinner parties - just because the party is large doesn't make it a burden, but it certainly will be if that's your expectation.
I am finding the level of idiocy in this conversation hilarious.
One half of the conversation appears to be summed up by: "If they didn't leave a tip, they deserve to be arrested" (*Arrested*, for an action that is perfectly legal). Because you don't like it.
Using that argument, I can say "People posting stupid things in online forums should be arrested for it". It's (obviously) perfectly legal for people to post stupid things in online forums, and they don't, in fact, get arrested for it*. It's a moronic argument, no matter who makes it.
The other seems to be "Waitstaff is a sucky occupation that doesn't pay well, so anyone who uses a restaurant with waitstaff is responsible for making the waitstaff's life better by giving them extra $, whether they do their job well or not".
Um, no. First, some states have laws governing servers that differ from the federal, and in fact get paid the same minimum wage that anyone else would. I think it's the exception, at this point, rather than the rule, but the people who think waitstaff should be paid more should be lobbying for that sort of law in their state, instead of expecting that people will *ever*, universally, voluntarily give extra money for service.
That expectation in this circumstance is as laughable as John Mackey's insistence that poor people's health care can, reasonably, be covered by charity organizations and there is no reason to make other arrangements.
Secondly, it's not my responsibility to make everyone's life better, and even if it were, there are better ways to go about it (see above).
Finally, I have to say that the number of boingers who think that the words "Mandatory Gratuity" on the menu constitutes a legally binding agreement is stunning me.
I'm surprised that more people don't realize that it's just as nuts as the idea that some of stupid EULAs so often featured here are legally binding. If they don't have actual LAWS to back them up, they aren't legally binding. Period.
I remember reading somewhere** that those signs that say "No Shirt- No Shoes- No Service- By Order of the Health Department" is completely bogus - created by business owners, not any health department. I suspect that this "mandatory gratuity" trend is along the same lines.
@Gloria- by the looks of the other two similar cases I found (IN & NY), courts think that the actual name of this added charge is important (as do I). A gratuity is *by definition* (I use the Merriam-Webster standard for this statement) optional. Both restaurants in both states lost their cases because they used the word "gratuity" to try to charge extra. I expect (and hope) that this one will too.
That a sort of generalized ignorance and fear of the voice of authority is causing some people to believe that "gratuity" means something it doesn't *does not change the meaning of the word*. We may currently be in the early stages of that meaning changing universally, but until it does, the meaning stands.
*I should probably note that I recognize that stupid can cross the line into criminal, and that where that happens, certainly, people get arrested.
**Ah, here it is: http://barefootmichael.blogspot.com/2009/11/origin-of-no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service.html
Did you consider that self=righteous douchebagfs who don;t tip OCCASIONALLY get treated lke self-righeous douchebags by waitstaff with self-respect?
So far I hear ONLY the customers viewpoint. And they're not always right.
"So far I hear ONLY the customers viewpoint."
Well, I'm see plenty of posts from the waitstaff persective...so I must wonder if you have some sort of reading disability? I'm not sure how I might help you with that, but please let me know if I can.
I think wikipedia sums this up nicely:
"A tip (also called a gratuity) is a voluntary extra payment made to certain service sector workers in addition to the advertised price of the transaction."
What this restaurants charged was a tax not a tip. If they need more money in order to pay their staff a decent wage why don't they, I don't know, charge more for their food?
Raaven, douche much?
@das memsen: My main point is that if you paid 18% more all your food during a meal, it's the same as if the restaurant imposed a 18% service fee. That's all I'm saying.
I wasn't clear -- I meant "universally agreed" as in that city or area. Everyone is aware that it varies from city to city. Of course there is no "universal" agreement. I should have explained how some universes are smaller than others ...
I don't argue for a higher wage because it's nowhere close to becoming a reality. I work for the Ministry of Labour in Ontario, and in recent memory (five years), it hasn't been an issue raised by any interest groups or political parties. In fact, the only organization I've heard of on this topic argues for a *freeze* on liquor server wages, because the industry is hurting in a slowed economy -- but nobody is paying any attention to them either. There's no traction on the issue at all.
Nowhere have I said I'm against a higher wage. I'm simply trying to what sense there is the current practise, even if it isn't ideal or dependable. Right now, gratuities or service fees gets money to servers. You help them directly by tipping them; if you feel your tip has been devalued because it isn't a nice thing to do, well, if the server is getting it, why isn't it still nice?
I don't even get why people think we should be rewarding/punishing servers with tips. Do I get to cut a few bucks from a clerk's salary if I'm stiffed at a bookstore? No. They get their wages regardless of how they treat me. So why do I get to judge a server that way? That's why I pay the gratuity every time unless it was truly, truly atrocious.
@raaven: My discussion of the word doesn't really concern the legal implications. Yes, it's an oxymoron, but we know what the restaurant *intended* for it to mean -- a service fee. We get it! The restaurant was lazy about its usage; it's clearly not a smart establishment anyway. I mean that we don't need to harp on it forever because it's not really that relevant. I mean, it's interesting to know that is a possible way of throwing out the case, but it's a frivolous case all around anyway.
I *love* talking about semantics, but this one obsession is totally flying over my head. Restaurants charge mandatory service fees (and call them such) all the time, but this one time a pub calls it a gratuity, people flip.
Here in Japan, if it says ¥1000 on the menu, it says ¥1000 on the bill. Tax, paying the waitstaff, all of that is in the damned price.
When I first came to Japan, I was surprised by the high menu prices, but the last few times we've been back to the states, my wife and I have kept track of comparative restaurant spending.
The US, with its hidden sales tax and tip, is more expensive, for exactly the same experience (i.e. sometimes good, sometimes bad).
Tipping is the devil.
Wow! That was unexpected, and if I may say so, a bit over the top.
Now I'm completely puzzled.
Did you have an objection to something specific I wrote, or are you just trying to tell me you don't like me?
Arkizzle, your reply to Raaven was kinda brief--what was that about? I don't see the "douchery".
@Gloria I hear you, and I'll try not to belabor the point much further.
I think my itch with this particular thing is that lots of restaurants use that terminology, and they understand what it means, and if a customer complains about it they take it off the bill, as is appropriate.
Now I'm completely puzzled.
I must wonder if you have some sort of reading disability? I'm not sure how I might help you with that, but please let me know if I can.
Always a possibility. I wonder, though, how my being puzzled by an unexplained & vague attack by a mod = reading disability.
I think I already noted that an explanation of what in my posts was so offensive would be something you (or arkizzle) could help with.
I think I already noted that an explanation of what in my posts was so offensive would be something you (or arkizzle) could help with.
My comment is an italicized quote from you followed by an un-italicized quote from you.
Okay.
I don't understand *why* this is offensive; nonetheless I apologize for having offended and thank you for explaining.
I would guess that GraemeM is speaking from the UK, and from the northern bit, where people are careful with their money.
Until recently in Britain ten percent was considered a perfectly reasonable tip in restaurants. I'd say twelve and a half these days. It's often added to the bill because the likes of GraemeM don't bother. Sometimes this is so subtly done you can end up tipping twice.
In Italy I have observed parties of Italians leaving less than one euro in spare change on the table, although I have never dared do this myself.
In the UK you don't tip in pubs and bars. In cafes where the furniture is fixed to the floor and extra baked beans are featured on the menu, you can tip if you want, but you might be the only person who does that day. There may be a jar by the till.
The American 20% or dollar per drink took me a while to get used to on my first visits. I was followed out of a restaurant in Palm Beach by an irate manager having left what I thought was an adequate tip.
I guess the discrepancy here is that you really believe that tips/service fees/whatever are some kind of mandatory thing, which they're not. Though I wasn't born in the US, perhaps the country has rubbed off on me enough that I definitely resent any business or government telling me what to do in areas they have no business telling me. I give a tip because i WANT to, not because i HAVE to. If I choose to pay 18% more, that's my choice, not anyone else's. This is not just a semantic difference- it's a philosophical one, and one that remains extremely important. Perhaps this is where you perceive people are hating tipping.
What's so enraging about this article is the restaurant's audacious presumption that just because they print a policy on a menu, it somehow constitutes a legal contract. There are enough hidden charges in modern life- for this dishonest practice to bleed into something that was fundamentally a good, generous act is definitely something worth speaking out against.
i always thought you gave the tip because you wanted to and not because it is mandatory. what if the service is poor,do i still tip? you can not add tips to my bill. the bill is for the service of the establishment. the tip should only come if i want it to. if the establishment paid a livable wage this would not be a big issue.
Banquet Manager? You think being a banquet manager is glamorous? You try dealing with cranky chefs and bitchy waiters all day - and that's without the nasty customers. Visit my blog and see what it's REALLY like in this crazy profession.
I work in a restaurant, we charge 10% service charge for a party of over 10 people. We did have a customer complaining about the service charge itself and had to refund it to her. But other than that we don't really expect to have tips, it's the customers' choice. Tips just reflects on the good service the customer receives.
If the service is excellent, it's a comparable tip. If the service is passable, it's about 15% standard for the wife and I. If the service is poor it drops to about 10%. If the service really sucks then we pay cash TO THE PENNY. No tip. I have been to restaurants where a gratuity was added for large groups of my friends and I and if we didn't feel that the 18% was appropriate we simply didn't pay it. We didn't not pay the check, that's stupid. The customer decides what the gratuity is, not the business.
yes this is true--but then they also need to raise prices to reflect that living wage. And many waitrons wouldn't like it that way because they tend to hide tips payed in cash so as not to pay taxes!!