Robert Fisk writes: "As in Vietnam - where Saigon was a lonely kingdom of brutal power totally isolated from the rest of the country - Karzai is going to rule over an equally tiny island of corruption, protected by US mercenaries while the Americans perform their familiar role of propping up a dictator." [Independent, via Ned Sublette]
Fisk on USA's role in Karzai's re-election: Vietnam 2.0
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Why yes, let's avoid propping up Karzai and let either the Taliban or an assortment of misogynist warlords take the place over. Clearly a better situation all around.
There's no side of the angels over there as far as I can tell-- you just pick the devil who is willing to work with you for the moment.
Baby steps, people. Baby steps.
Ahhh yes. The horrible dictatorship of Saigon opposed by the wonderful and glorious paradise of Ho Chi Minh and Ton Duc Thang. I don't know why our troops bother when they could just go with option two, Taliban rule, or option three, anarchy!
The USA did the same thing in Indonesia (Pres. Soeharto), as well as various other Asian, South American, and African states - and in each case it has just given rise to the birth of oppressive dictatorships.
I royally screwed that blockquote up. My response is the lower of the two quotes.
Blech. No one likes the sitch, but what are the options?
Pull everyone out and let the Afghans deal with it? Yeah right. Pakistan is struggling with the taliban. This is despite its comparatively stable political landscape, its infrastructure, police, military and intelligence agency (albeit filled with taliban informants/fighters). If the Pakistanis are struggling, then how do you expect the Afghanis to fix their issues?
THEIR COUNTRY SUPPLIES 92% OF THE WORLD HEROIN SUPPLY.
With that kind of bank roll for the 'bad' guys, there is little that any other group in the country can do to improve the situation short of asking for international assistance.
I dont like it anymore than you, but we should be asking ourselves - how can we improve safety for regular Afghans who get caught up in the shit caused by our countries playing god. This is problem number 1.
I dont give a flying f if the talib/police/govt get injured/killed - they know what the risks are and they are being paid accordingly. I dont *want* them to get hurt.... its just that they know what they signed up for.
Interestingly, Pakistan claims to have just found a big cache of Indian arms and ammo in a raid on a Taliban stronghold. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8341580.stm
Neither vietnam nor Afghanistan are the U.S's problem. It isn't a question of where are the angels, but why do you bother to look?
Vietnams colonial oppressors were kicked out by Japanese invasion, and the U.S was Vietnams ally in defeating the Japanese. It ought have continued to be an ally of the vietnamese and told the returning French colonials to get lost.
The then independent, wheeling and dealing Vietnamese wold have been willing allies of the U.S going forward.
Likewise if the U.S hadn't cooperated with the elderly corrupt colonial Britsh Empire and sided with democratic Iran instead of aiding in it's destruction by installing a dictator Iran would now be the U.S's staunchest ally in the Middle-east.
If the U.S had the courage to keep faith with democracy and not continually play stupid games with others liberty it's own situation would be immensely improved.
Staying in Afghanistan where the U.S is propping up a corrupt sharia law governing sectarian government by siding with it in an ancient ethnic battle that destabilises every country whose border it crosses is just stupid.
Staying in Afghanistan is solely about salving egos, and nothing will be served by hoping that if the U.S keeps killing people this time it'll work, this time.
Most of the world understood chasing Osama into Afghanistan, but the battle was maintained solely as a fig-leaf for the conquest of Iraq. It no longer serves any purpose.
There is no serious conspirarcy to destroy the west in Muslim countries, there is a battle for control of Islam that finds it expedient to attack and invite retribution from the west as policies to strengthen internal positions between Muslims.
Don't feed it. It may not be possible to avoid need for discrete responses to assualts but occupation of countries should not be considered an option or part of policy in dealing with 'terrorist' dangers.
The U.S has more dangerous domestic enemies undermining it's civil society and economic stability than it has any foreign enemies.
There is no point in the US involvement in Vietnam where you can say "It was useful up to here and a disaster after." It was a disaster waiting to happen from the beginning; all the US did was delay reunification at great cost in blood and treasure of both sides.
Ditto for Afghanistan. When the US leaves, the Taliban will take over again. It doesn't matter if the US sticks it out for 1 day more or 20 years, the Taliban live there, it is their country, and they will take over when the US leaves.
Sure it hurts to lose face. But if you are going to lose face one way or the other, you may as well get it over with rather than prolong the suffering and increase the ill will generated by sticking it out.
Fun fact: The Heroin actually funds the supposed "good guys".
Argh. Robert Fisk, the reason I stopped reading the Independent. There was only so many times, having decided myself that the Iraq war was bad, that I could take being told about why it was so bad in his special way.
Shame, it used to be a fairly pleasant paper.
Why don't we just buy all the poppy crops and destroy them, year after year? I bet it wouldn't cost any more than what we already spend over there.
Robert Fisk, now there's someone who gives great, fairminded and in-no-way pie-in-the-sky politically untenable insight into foreign policy!
Everything Robert Fisk has ever written: "People in power suck."
If the U.S. and the E.U. legalized heroin the price would drop precipitously and the bottom would fall out of the market. Growing poppies would be only a little more profitable than growing food and probably not worth the effort of smuggling it out of landlocked Afghanistan through countries where it still was illegal. The Taliban's main source of funds would disappear. We could do the same with cocaine to stop the FARC in Colombia.
I like how some people keep saying "but what if the warlords take over" when in fact Karzai has the support and backing of practically all the warlords in Afghanistan.
I like even more how people complain they don't want to read Fisk because what he writes is true.
Anon:
Fun fact: The Heroin actually funds the supposed "good guys".
"Alleged fun fact" would be more apt... Whilst Karzai's bro is a shifty guy (as are MANY of his supporters) there is no conclusive evidence of his involvement in the drug trade.
It is an undenyable fact that opium is the main source of cash for the taliban. The coalition is continually finding secret stashes of arms, explosives and literally tons of drugs.
Whilst heroin is in no doubt funding some of the "good guys" - I would be more concerned about the "good guys" being on the CIA payroll as is currently the case. Surely funelling taxpayer's $$$ to them is worse than letting them deal drugs which will likely get them killed (people involved in drug trafficing are now classed as enemy combatants and can legally be targeted by the millitary) in the long run.
[sorry for the doublepost]
If the U.S. and the E.U. legalized heroin the price would drop precipitously and the bottom would fall out of the market.
Yeah, sweet! Peace in the Afghanistan at the cost of a heavily addicted population throughout the westerm world... seems like a fair trade.