Schulz's Jazz age violence and mystery
Sympathy for the lamprey
I became interested in the Masons after reading Robert Anton Wilson's books. I also thought Masonic pocket watches were cool looking. When I told my friend's father that the Masons intrigued me, he revealed that he was a member and invited me to join ("To be one, ask one"). I joined about 6 or 7 years ago, but have been inactive ever since my second daughter was born. (I'm just a Fellowcraft at this point; I need to complete my 2nd degree proficiency!)
A lot of histories of Freemasonry have been written over the years. I tried reading a few, but they seemed fake and/or boring. The book Born in Blood, by John Robinson (linking the Knights Templar to the Masons) was the only one that was interesting, but according to Jay Kinney, author of a new, terrific book called The Masonic Myth, the claims in the Robinson's book (and most other Freemason histories) are unsubstantiated.
I've known Jay for many years. He was the publisher of the late, great Gnosis Magazine, the author of several books on Western esoteric and occult traditions, and the author of The Masonic Enigma, "a journey of discovery into the real facts (and mysteries) of Masonry's history and symbols." He's also an amazingly talented cartoonist, and contributed to The Whole Earth Review. (His 1987 WER article, "If Software Companies Ran the Country," where he compares Al Capp's Shmoos to infinitely-copyable software, remains as fresh and powerful today as it did 22 years ago).
In the introduction to The Mason Myth, Kinney (a Mason himself) wrote that he wanted his book to be an antidote to both the "imaginative speculations of 'alternative historians,'" and to those Masonic histories that "succumb to the tyranny of minutiae, where a never-ending stream of names, dates, jargon, and organizational details numb the brains of all but the most dedicated reader." In my opinion, he succeeds in both counts, having written a book that's both highly-readable and down-to-earth. Backed up by much scholarly research, Kinney methodically examines, and then busts common myths about Masons (the dollar bill design, links to satanism and the occult, conspiracy to take over the world), replacing the phony facts with the real story.
Jay's latest book comes out at the same time as Dan Brown's new novel The Lost Symbol, which reportedly distorts the history of the Masons. (I plan to read Brown's new book, anyway. My friends heap scorn and ridicule on me for the fact that I enjoy Brown's novels. Is it my fault they have no taste?)
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My childhood best friend is a Mason, Scottish Rite. He became one in college. He did some one day seminar/class thing and was a third degree at the end of it. His description of the lodge he belonged to sticks with me "Some very nice older gentlemen who all wanted to hear about the fun I was having at school."
That sounds about right! 95% of Masons are senior citizens.
I have always wanted to ask a real live Mason who wasn't afraid of all sorts of dark repercussions from talking, how on earth they could sign up to a secret society without any idea what they were signing up for. I don't know what this book says, but it seems likely that mot were 17/18th century inventions... they are set up so that the lowliest applicant has no idea what may lie in wait by the time they progress through the degrees. What if the true masons at the end of the process are satanists/racists/ardent folk dancers/whatever? How can you in all conscience sign up to an organisation when you have no idea what that might require you to do?
In the UK there have been rumours for years relating to the fact that certain masonic lodges are associated with particular professions, and so there is a suspicion that some draw together people in the legal profession, courts and police in a way which is not necessarily conducive to the fair operation of the court system.
Sometimes the organisation is presented as though it were simply a charitable and benign organisation set up to do goodworks... but it seems to me that an organisation which has woven secrecy into its rituals; mostly excludes women (although that may be changing, not sure) and requires loyalty from people before they know what they are being loyal to, may have quite a negative moral influence.
Some people join and seem unchanged; my late father in law joined the masons, and it scared the living daylights out of him. He refused to talk about it but advised everyone close to him to have nothing to do with them, ever. He would not beak the vows he had taken to maintain secrecy and so always refused to explain why, but his strong view was that it had been a mistake, and one which he wished to prevent his sons from making.
That explains the funny caps and little cars.
Old boy, don't you know, what.
an interesting book about the Masons is "The Hermetic Code"
it talks about how there is a theory that the legislature building in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada is a huge masonic temple.
The cap and car guys are Shriners. They're like the Delta House of Freemasons, aren't they?
Are they still bitter enemies of the Dixons? Wait. I'm thinking of the Hatfields and McCoys.
several years ago, though, i lived in alexandria, va and each day walked down the hill to the king street metro station. people familiar with the area will know that the masonic library complex is at that intersection and i must admit, i always had the feeling of that all seeing eye looking down on me each morning from atop the library's tower. if you have an interest in all things masonic and find yourself in DC with a few hours to kill, there are definitely worse ways to spend your time than taking the library tour.
alas. i am "gender challenged" when it comes to being a mason, but i always found it fascinating. OES seemed to be the place to park the women while the men went to do "important things," so i'm not terribly interested in that.
so my interests in such things wandered a bit, and i happened across another good book, "Inside a Magical Lodge" by J.M. Greer. the author is the head of the ancient order of druids in america, so you probably get a narrative that's a little more mystical with this book. still.. also a good read.
The truth or fiction of any group is often questioned. As for WHY? Well,....
That's a thing needing some evaluation. Part centers on Xenophobia. Another is a seemingly legit concern of "Why would a group risk mistrust etc when mere transparency would banish the fears."
And then? there's a path less thought of in our modern world.
Some thing are valued for the method of their having been earned or learned. And possession of them unearned is literally worthless. To have that "less thought of path" explained further? That may involve some evenings spent with others working at understanding...
One afternoon, back when I was in grad school, a friend of mine called me up and said, "Hay, you want to go have drinks with the Masons, they're buying." I said, "Yes, Yes I do."
My friend was applying to join and part of the process was that they wanted to interview character references (of which I was one, apparently). So, I went to a bar in China Town (In Washington DC) and the Masons got me drunk. Then they took us to Tapas. It was a lovely evening.
I always thought it odd that a secret society could be so lousy at keeping secrets!
we need a clique of young people to take over a masonic lodge from the inside and turn it into a real, Old One worshipping death cult.
I was invited to join our local lodge in Scotland at the age of 18, mostly due to my great grandfather having founded the lodge and gifted the premises; my great grandmother also founded the local Eastern Star which tends to be thought of as the female masons.
I’ve since left, only because my atheism did not square for me with the need to believe in a supreme creator. Some points...
1. Most of what is said about the masons is pish, particularly if said by a mason.
2. They do represent a fairly wide cross
section of (male) society and as such have some very nice and wonderful people and some complete bastards.
3. If you want to find out more approach your local lodge and ask, most now have listed email addresses and many have websites.
"Dan Brown's new novel The Lost Symbol, which reportedly distorts the history of the Masons."
Dan Brown's made more money off distortion than Leo Fender.
Mark, nowadays the old guy percentage might be something closer to 80-85% and dropping - partly because of older members dying off, but also because a lot of younger guys are joining. As you read newer fluff articles about the Masons, you'll notice that "dwindling numbers due to aging members" is old and busted, and "Renewed interest due to National Treasure and The Da Vinci Code" is the new hotness.
Anyone who's interested and reasonably capable at using Google can learn just about as much as they want to know about Freemasonry. Most if not all Grand Lodges have libraries open to the public with Masonic research materials dating back hundreds of years. Of course, the paranoid will simply claim "Only what they want you to be able to find out!" but come on... an organization that's been around for however many hundreds of years and has had however many millions of members has somehow managed to maintain absolute secrecy about their "true motives"? (Cue all the people who knew a friend of a friend whose dad was a "high-ranking" Mason and how they found a book with all kinds of terrible dark secrets in it but for some reason they can't name the book or any of the terrible dark secrets in it but any Mason who contradicts them is a liar.)
Fee, I don't know what might have upset your father-in-law, but lots of people join and never came back for all kinds of reasons. One guy joined my lodge and left immediately, having decided that Freemasonry was incompatible with his fundamental view of Christianity (basically because Masonry acknowledges the validity of other religions than his.)
The secrets and obligations of Freemasonry are all about being true to yourself and others... outside the context of a Masonic lodge room they're just words. (Which have been published many times over since the Grand Lodge of England formed in 1717.)
Oh Mark... I do enjoy reading what you've written, but "95% of Masons are senior citizens."? LOL! While I do agree that you'll find your share of the elderly in Freemasonry, the median age is trending downward, sharply.
I currently belong to 2 lodges (I'm a 32nd degree M:.M:.) in one lodge the median age is somewhere around 45. I'm the youngster of the lodge. In the other lodge, the median age is 32... I'm the old man of the lodge! According to an article on Masonic Information.com, the median age for the Craft in the 21st century is hovering around 37. In 1963 it was 58.
The truth is that Freemasonry is more popular now with you youngsters (sorry, couldn't resist) than it has been since the end of WWII, and that is why the perception is that we're all rickety old men with walkers. = )
And I'm glad that your friend wrote yet... Another... Tell all... Book... About... Freemasonry... The exciting truth is that you can find 100% of our accurate (unabridged, un-boring, unimaginative) history online, for free. Here you go. It's only 46 pages, so you might want to pick up "The Masonic Myth" if you want a full night of reading.
http://www.freemasoninformation.com/2009/09/what-is-freemasonry-free-ebook/
The absolute truth about Freemasonry is that there is no single absolute truth about freemasonry. There are those that have never entered the Craft that claim to know everything, while there are those in the highest echelons of our leadership that will tell you, flat out, there are some aspects that there is simply no written history to back up.
And as far as stereotypes go, well, I'm a Buddhist Master Mason in Norman, Oklahoma. I'm a member of the Grand Lodge for the state, and the Chaplain for a new 'old school' Veritas Lodge. The absolute truth is that, while I'm sure you could easily find trends in the Craft, the multitude of exceptions simple preclude any stereotypes out there.
Through my lodges I have met Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Rastafarians (technically a Judeo-Christian offshoot, though neither group claims the other), Jews, B'Hai, and Hindus. We may have differences outside the doors of the lodge, but when we meet inside we are brothers. There's no secret to it.
And no, we do not practice 'tolerance'... We see tolerance as a BS term coined by religious extremists to explain why God allows 'other' religions. No, what we practice is acceptance. We accept the fact that our brethren will have differing views, and that it is their God-given right to do so.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking your post. I'm off to order the book now. I hope it's better than the other 16 that have come out this year. = )
Peace!
@#14. RWY ~ Spot on, Brother.
Wonder if it deals with Mormonism. Joseph Smith, The founder of Mormonism was a mason and alot of the rituals for mormonism that they closely guard are stolen mason rituals.
@ Takuan.
There are already more allegiances than there are members and I think the new money already beat you to it with the current crappy mainstream culture.
They did build this 'temple' doncherknow.
Good luck though.
here's an example of mormon/masonic comparison
http://people.usd.edu/~theaton/mormon/mason.html
Tangent:
I get a kick out of seeing old Masonic meeting halls.
Some are huge and fancy, like the one in downtown Portland. It's many stories tall, masonry, and ornate. You can imagine a maze of rooms in the basement, perhaps including the chamber for the secret goat deflowering ritual. I read that some of these old halls had hotel rooms built in.
On Saturday I drove through a rural area of the Willamette valley, and saw some really bare-bones meeting halls. Wood frame, painted with fading green paint.
"replacing the phony facts with the real story. "
That's what they want you to think.
"I became interested in the Masons after reading Robert Anton Wilson's books."
That's what you want them to think.
The rituals of Freemasonry seem like they could be fun; especially the direction they took in the US in the early 20th century, where it seemed to be less about mystical mumbo-jumbo than about ingenious japes and pranks (witness, for example, the DeMoulin Bros. Masonic Novelty Catalogue). Perhaps there's scope for overlap between Makers and Masons?
Having said that, I have one issue with Freemasonry: the need to profess belief in a supreme being, which excludes atheists and rationalists. Making a non-religious club exclusive to believers in supernatural worldviews seems, to me, unfairly discriminatory, and an embodiment of the old prejudice that only religious people can be genuinely moral/virtuous.
Thanks for the post, Brother. Sounds like an interesting book.
There is so much misinformation out there. It's great that more authors are attempting to correct this. I had a number of misconceptions when I entered the craft. I was pleasantly surprised that the surface spookiness and cloak-and-dagger type stuff not only doesn't exist, but the fraternity is actually quite open and friendly.
There are always a few crusty old men, but they're the minority. And lots of young guys are joining up. Lots of men are fed up with our commercial materialistic culture and enjoy being with like-minded individuals - or whatever their reason is for joining, since it varies for every person. It's hard to describe how great it is to meet a stranger as your brother, and know the guy is probably really decent. It definitely drops a lot of the barriers you'd normally have since it's kind of like a 'no douchebags allowed' club.
mgfarrelly, as for the one day initiation, that's not how it's done everywhere in the world. In Canada, there more of a progression through them and can take from a couple months to a year to complete. I hear this practice is common in the US, since they often conduct regular lodge business in the third degree, whereas we do ours in the first. I'm sure it also varies from state to state. Not a right or wrong way, just the minor deviation you'd expect after a couple hundred years. Since there is no global Masonic governing body, despite what conspiracy folks say, there tends to be some variation between jurisdictions.
Lots of great responses from other Freemasons!
@TAKUAN ... didn't the temple of set take over one of the seattle area lodges using exactly this technique?
The Philly masons were all painters and plasterers, not actual stonemasons, so they built a truly magnificent faux-stone lodge. Well worth visiting - you will find it hard to believe that it really isn't the most fantastic example of stone-cutting in the country.
The Grand Opera House in Wilmington DE was also built by the Freemasons and incorporated a lodge. The entrance to the theatre has one of those infinitely-reflecting mirrored hallways, which is pretty cool.
Knowing nothing more than the typical popular myths and Alan Moore concoctions about the Masons, my question is simply- why would anyone want to join a secret club? Sounds very 10-year-old-boyish, no matter how much you pile on top of it. Do members take it seriously? Or is it all with tongue planted in cheek?
And am I going to wake up tomorrow tied to a dead moose carcass now for asking so?
checking (so many operatives, I never know what they get up to)
There is a very well written book explaining "Why Catholics cannot be Masons" this is the name of the book it is well worth reading for elusive answers.I am an adult Christian and the book that tells me why one cannot be a Christian and a Mason is the "Bible" If you profess to be a Christ follower and then join into the brotherhood of Freemasons you are only deceiving yourself...there is only one Master and is name is Jesus Christ....He is the way,the truth,and the life...the door to the kingdom of God....there is no "divine lodge" awaiting Masons....my father was a 32 degree master Mason...I felt sorry for him because the oath he took to freemasonary blinded him from coming to the real truth......he died without the salvation grace of the Lord Jesus.....we must pray for the true light of Christ to shine into the hearts of those that are searching in all the wrong places for peace and eternal salvation.......
The art theatre 'round the corner from my place used to be a masonic lodge. I don't know why it isn't any more. After that it was an adult movie theatre.
Why do I mention this? Some TRUTHS need to be exposed, man! Open your eyes!
sugarmama - i'm pretty sure the masons aren't in the eternal salvation business. Sorry to hear you're still mad at your father.
This makes me more passionate about being Atheist.
Not sure if it was mentioned, but part of being a Mason is believing in some higher power.
So that whole crap about "acceptance" is utter hypocrisy. You don't accept me for I do not believe in a higher power.
Sorry. I don't mean to step on toes.
Thank the noodley one for freemasons, otherwise we'd have to pay for them. XD
Wow, a volunteer piñata at #29.
It's great to read about so many Masons on BB! In the UK Masonry is really going through something of a renaissance at the moment, with more young people involved than for a very long time indeed. As others have said, this is partly because of Dan Brown etc, but also, I think because UK masonry (I can't speak for elsewhere) has done a lot to clean up its act and be genuinely accepting of non-traditional cultures, religions and backgrounds. I also think that charity, which is at the heart of freemasonry is a big draw.
For me, to be able to go to lodge and have a great time with our members who are WWII veterans, to meet masons from all over the world and to enjoy good company and good cheer, are the biggest draws. Because of freemasonry I've met some fascinating people from all walks of life - and that's something I've enjoyed immensely.
Can anyone explain why the Masonic pyramid/eye also appears is Catholic imagery in association with Jesus Christ? For example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnyo/3868227143/sizes/o/
(JHS is the greek acronym for Jesus Christ)
@33... The fact that you don't meet the requirements to be in the fraternity doesn't mean that you're 'unacceptable' to Masons; you're just not a Mason. The Craft is based on a belief in and a focus on a supreme being. That you are an Atheist certainly doesn't mean that we value you any less as a person, it just means that you're not into the same stuff we are. I doubt you can disagree with that.
I have no more problem accepting you as an Atheist than I do accepting the fact that my wonderful Wife is also an Atheist.
The fact that you referred to my beliefs as 'crap' and 'hypocrisy' means that you are actually (proactively, while knowing next to nothing about me) far less accepting of me than I am of you. That's a little sad, but it's 100% your decision to make.
speak not of the Noodley Mysteries!
We need a masonic-like organization for atheists and agnostics and those who believe in the flying spaghetti monster.
@33... Sorry. I meant @32... XD
@37
We do. It's called the Church of the Subgenius. Give me slack or KILL ME!
@37... http://www.venganza.org/
So it's a wonderful welcoming place of interest and curiosity where all are equal...except if you're female? No one is valued any less unless...they're female?
@ 35 Madfist
It's hypocritical to describe your organization as one that promotes "acceptance" when you discriminate and leave a certain demographic out. You furthered your hypocrisy and self-delusion by sputtering out that you accept me as a person, but not into your club, and that somehow still means you're an accepting person. You were talking a lot about absolutes and so am I.
Your beliefs aren't crap. Your belief and delusion of "acceptance" is what I was referring to. I try to not weigh in on what people believe, as I would not appreciate it if someone judged me on my beliefs.
Let us pray: It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sappho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
mmmm, you kinky boy! While the juices of Sappho tempt indeed, sapho is just root squeeezins. A-yep.
"Dan Brown's new novel The Lost Symbol, which reportedly distorts the history of the Masons."
If Dan Brown wrote a book of perfectly accurate information about the Masons, or anything else for that matter, he would be a reference author instead of a novelist. He had to write a made up story, that's what a novel is.
And Madfist, I'm judging you by your association. Not you as a person. You seem nice enough and like you are an accepting person. I'm speaking to you as though you represent the Masons. Since you are a member, this is not unreasonable.
@ohhsnap, so you don't believe in any women only organizations, Catholic organizations, Black or Hispanic organizations, etc? You're asserting that people cannot voluntarily form a private club and then choose with whom to associate? Or is it only that masonry is stereotyped as a bunch of white guys that makes it unacceptable?
@infinity, it wasn't the Temple of Set in Seattle. It was the Ordo Templi Orientis. They didn't "take over" the lodge (my own mother lodge). What happened is the local OTO lodge rented space in the masonic lodge's building and, over time, many of the men in the same OTO lodge became more interested in masonry and wound up joining the masonic lodge that was their host. That was what happened in my case and I maintained my membership until I moved to California.
As to John Michael's book, he wrote that years before he was involved in the fraternal druidic order that he now heads. He and I were in the Odd Fellows together (and he later became a mason as well) and that was our fraternal experience before we founded a small fraternal order (meeting in the Odd Fellows' hall, just as the OTO rented from the Freemasons). That book was written out of that work founding a group and because John Michael wanted to teach others the value of fraternal organizations (which is ironic consider some of his later personal history and what happened to the group we founded, the Companions of the Stone).
there seems to be an underlying wanking theme...
It's hypocritical to describe your organization as one that promotes "acceptance" when you discriminate and leave a certain demographic out.
Well, not really. Masonic ritual and practice is based around a belief in a higher power of some sort -whatever you chose to call it, him, her, them etc. As such, it makes no real sense to join as an atheist...
There is also a strong tradition of womens' freemasonry, at least in the UK - with historic links to womens suffrage etc. I suspect many female masons would take ubrage at the suggestion made by some that the are "excluded"
Gichin-broad, but delightful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTVsH1PJY1c&feature=related
George H. W. Bush is a 32nd degree mason you know...
@ Hongaku
Perhaps my reading comprehension isn't at the level I believed it to be... I thought this post was about the Freemasons.
Don't get me started on organized religion. Just don't.
The right to organize and exclude is one that mankind has enjoyed for a very, very, very long time. Frankly, it's detrimental to our progression. The desire to be "different" and set yourself apart is never going to be fulfilled by joining a fraternity. It's a personal journey, one that no organization can be a part of. When others are involved with your self-reflections, then they aren't purely yours. It's a form of thought control.
But uh, back to what I started with, this is specifically about the Freemasons. Not Blacks, not Hispanics, not anyone else.
So, Freemasons can't create a private organization that is restricted to men but a women's organization could ethically create one restricted to women or, for example, Hispanics could create one limited to Hispanics?
You really think that it is entirely unethical and therefore somehow shady for a group of men to get together and create an organization for men but that this also doesn't apply to any other group?
Your hypocrisy is showing.
Personally, I suppose the free right of any group to self-select and form private groups to meet to enjoy each others' company, have discussions, etc. as long as they aren't breaking any laws or working to harm anyone else. That's part of the whole idea of free assembly after all.
It's only unethical and illegal when the government gets into the act or when it causes harm (directly or otherwise) to other people. A bunch of guys meeting in a lodge building to practice 300 year old rituals, discuss philosophy and eat rather mediocre food is not going to harm anyone.
I'll leave your opinions of spirituality, journeys, etc. aside, as wrong as they are anyway.
hongaku,
Chill or be chilled.
@Ohhhsnap: Would you call the AARP "hypocritical" if they said that they were open-minded and respected young people, but didn't what them in their association?
I'm not a Freemason or religious (far from it), but I have no problem with Freemasons being "accepting" of everyone but having a belief in some God as a requisite to being a member. What do you expect, it's no different from the Catholic Church requiring you to be a Catholic to join -- it's a core part of the idea. Except that Freemasons never waged crusades against unbelievers or burned people at the stake.
I don't understand why, as an atheist, you would want to join an organization whose core ideology revolves around a belief in a Supreme Being.
The American Athiests is probably a very open and "accepting" organization, but I bet it's hard to become a member if you're an outspoken Christian fundamentalist.
I had no idea that Masonry was experiencing a comeback - interesting.
My great-grandfather is a Mason. There was a time around here (eastern canada) when you couldn't be a successful business man unless you were a Mason. But it isn't nearly as popular here today.
Once I was with an older friend of mine who was highly critical of the Masons when a couple threatened to kill him and take all his money/business. I've been a little leery since then...
yes, yes....the fools... all according to plan...
Please bring back Gnosis magazine!!!!!!!!!!
That is all.
K, thanks, bye.
@55 ~ None of the Bush clan are Masons. Shrub (the younger offender) is a 'Bonesman' or member of Skull and Bones; a Yale-specific fraternity based on the 'Right of Privilege'.
President Obama is also not a member, though that rumor floated for a while also when the political Right thought it could hurt him. Gerald Ford was the last Freemason to rise to the level of President.
Not saying that we'd deny the Bushes as a group, but they would feel wholly uncomfortable in almost any lodge I've ever visited.
Now, are there bastards and wankers in the Craft? To be sure. That said, I've been lucky enough to avoid or overlook most of them.
I think the most surprising thing, in these comments and those of the previous Mason thread, is the complete absence of Simpson's references. Personally, I think the signs point directly to moderator conspiracy. Not much else could explain it.
The first rule of freemasonry is you don't talk about freemasonry.
watch it there BBuddy, else ye seek the Passage of the Swollen Ass.
Inaudible @48, there are plenty of novelists who are capable of writing fiction based on facts and accurate history.
Tak: One extra keystroke and I've folded space to new world. Lucky me!
Great comments everyone. I was especially surprised to learn (1) how easy it is to join and (2) that the age of the average mason is decreasing. Personally, I'm into the symbolism and whenever I see a car with one of the compass symbols on the back, I immediately think of the all-seeing eye. In Brooklyn, the Fort Greene Masonic temple hosted this year's Throbbing Gristle show. Unfortuantely, the acoustics were terrible and the temple itself was showing signs of decay. Brooklyn's Temple would probably be ripe for overthrow... now if they could only raise the money to bring the place back to its original splendor.
yep, them islanders.
There are Masonic-based women's organizations, although from what I understand they're a little lower on the cool ritual scale and in some ways a little like the ladies' auxillaries of old. I was a Job's Daughter for a couple of years in high school; Mom was in Eastern Star (which is a mixed organization). Job's Daughters did get cool "Grecian" robes, and the Honoured Queen and Princesses got tiaras and purple capes. However, the de Molay guys got swords and medieval-y stuff. I was jealous.
"When I told my friend's father that the Masons intrigued me, he revealed that he was a member and invited me to join ("To be one, ask one")."
Really? Awesome! I want to be a Mason. I keep finding Masons and asking them, and I keep getting a runaround. Something about being on their Most Grand and Worshipful List of Inherently and Irredeemably Incompetent, Dishonest, and Dishonorable People.
Not for my beliefs or actions, either. According to the Masons I've talked to, I can't be a Mason because I can't be trusted, and I can't be trusted because I'm a woman.
E Clampus Vitus
Credo Quia Absurdum
My father is a mason. We both live in Canada.
A few things the idiots should know when they gab their noise holes about hypocrisy:
Masonic influence extends to charity and the original tenets of the american constitution. nothing more.
Masonry is a 'secret' society, yes. It's like the 400 year old equivalent of a boys only club with stupid and complicated rituals. And a lot of the masons who have joined within the last 15 years are geeks.
When asked any mason about the rituals, any mason without their head shoved up their ass will all tell you the same answer, "Because it's cool!"
Catholics can become masons. Catholics generally don't become mason's because they are generally taught to hate masons. Catholicism hates masonry cause it accepts other religions.
The masons Accept everyone. EVERYONE. No matter what faith, or lack of faith you may have.
Got it? Good. The higher power nonsense is like a fucking age gate on a damn movie trailer.
It's just a fucking rule/formality they have to follow when they interview you. It's not meant to keep people out or be inherently exclusive. If you can't catch on to that, you're an idiot.
The whole process is boiled down to.
"Do you believe in the POSSIBILITY of a higher power."
"Yes."
"You're in! Let silly rituals and the flowing of beer commence."
You don't have to fucking believe in it, just yes, god damn it!
And if you're too stupid to say yes. then you're too stupid to be a mason!
Its rituals are based around really obscure and strange biblical shit and various crap about geometry and divinity. No one's expected to actually believe in it. And I guess in the very least, hardcore athiests may be offended.
I'm an agnostic leaning towards atheism. If I want to join, I'll just say yes and get it over with.
Damn man! People on the internet are idiots who love cry hypocrisy.
You know what's hypocrisy? You guys opening your mouth before you know what the hell you're talking about.
You don't have to fucking believe in it, just yes, god damn it!
hee hee, masons are liars!
#16 POSTED BY USONIAN, SEPTEMBER 14, 2009 1:52 PM
[cow spits out milk & laughs]
Usonian, the pain still lingers? I didn't mean to hurt you back then. Don't worry, time heals all wounds eventually... especially if you sekretly worship the Cow GAWD in my downstairs attached garage with me by candlelight.
Slight correction to post: Something called The Masonic Enigma is mentioned, but that's not another book, it's just the original title of this one. The publisher decided to change it to The Masonic Myth at the last minute.
hey! ever read Rutherfurd's Sarum?
'The masons Accept everyone. EVERYONE. No matter what faith, or lack of faith you may have.'
It's still looking like a club which professes to do XYZ For The Good of Humanity And Be Awesome And Accepting but if you're female and fit every criteria save for the genitalia you're either not allowed in at all or have to accept a 'lesser' role.
If it were 'We're the men's only organisation the Freemasons' and that's how it was sold, it wouldn't be an issue - most of the women's only or black only or whatever-only organisations don't sell themselves as something else first.
A while back I was working on a design site for them - they offered membership to the design team (hee!), then got all awkward and freaked out when they found out there was a woman on the team. And finally offered some auxiliary Masonic group she could join. They made the costumes for the others. Couldn't engage in high rites or anything, but they had an appropriately feminine role.
It's okay, girls! It's for the good of humanity, and if you behave REALLY well, we'll give you an auxiliary role and you can pretend to be a real member. Sorta. Honestly, we accept everyone, and you're equal. You just can't have high ranks or ever be in charge. But you're equal, yessir!
lovely she was
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd6aXJPppaY
why masons are afraid of women
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK61O6H3E9s
My father's father was a Lutheran minister in the 1880-1920 period. He wrote a memoir of his career and told numerous stories of threats and harrassment from "The Lodges" which I presumed to mean Masons.
I don't know if they threatened him because he preached against them or if he preached against them because they threatened him but the animosity seems to have been gi-normous.
80-plus comments in this thread and not ONE reference to who controls the British Pound, who keeps the metric system down, or for that matter who made Steve Guttenberg a star?
I am disappointed, folks, I really am.
My grandfather was a Mason, and a few of my school friends were in DeMolay. The notion that there's anything in the least bit sinister or conspiratorial about it is pretty hysterical.
After reading this thread, however, I'm considering writing a strongly worded letter to the local chapter recommending that they offer classes in public relations and maintaining one's composure.
Madfist@~64: That's exactly what they'd like you to believe... ;D
BBuddy@~65: If we must...
Zippyspincycle: In the book there's a picture of Homer in his Stonecutter outfit.
I have been a Mason for over 10 years, joined when I was 26, and it has been one of the greatest steps I have taken in my life. The diversity of people I have met is truly astounding! The ritual and symbolism still intrigue me to this day. At its very basic level Freemasonry is a philosophical society with a spiritual foundation that was designed with the intent of promoting self-improvement for service of the Supreme Being and all humanity.
Freemasonry has strict regulation against soliciting members and an individual must seek to join based on their own free will and uninfluenced by other means. Hence the Masonic motto of 2 Be 1 Ask 1.
To become a Freemason you must believe in a Supreme Being, obey the law, and seek moral improvement. Those who fit this criteria and want to join must get in contact with a lodge in their city and express their interest.
i'll throw this into the mix of freemason voodoo
check out one of the architects of world heritage site Bath, Somerset. Some historians think that John Wood (the elder) incorporated freemason symbolism into the design of Queens Square, the Circus and the Royal Crescent, representing the earth, sun and moon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wood,_the_Elder
I'm sort of surprised that the whole atheism-masonry debate never mentioned the Illuminati? Why? Because they were the atheistic variation of the Freemasons. Kind of disappointing that nowadays no-one thought about restarting them. Must be a conspiracy.
Seeing as I'm the wrong gender too, Freemasonry always left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Until I came into contact with the Mixed Masons (Co-freemasonry) such as Le Droit Humain. It was especially enlightening in the way that the members described the athmosphere being different between mixed masonry and solo masonry.
I just don't understand why this organisation is officially not accepted as a 'true' masonionic organisation by other streams within Freemasonry. Maybe that's what's stopping other Masonic organisations to change their policy?
France seems to be a bit more forward thinking. Their official Masonry organ has co-masonry groups among their members (including the visitation rights) and has lodges accepting Atheist members.
ohhhsnap: Well, you're right there. An atheist can't become a Freemason. You ask why you would be excluded. A bigger question is why on earth would an atheist be interested in joining a group that is centred around a common belief in a supreme being? Honestly, I have no idea what an atheist would gain from membership in a spiritual fraternity. It would be a giant waste of your time and money. If you think it's just a matter of a secret handshake and the path to easy street, you're way off the mark.
Also, I should make it clear: someone professing to believe in a supreme being doesn't need to justify what he means at all. In fact, since religion and politics are barred from discussion, no one would even ask. So, if you feel no wonder in the world greater than yourself, that's too bad. But you go on being passionate about believing in nothing.
While it's fairly contentious among staunch traditionalists, I know of one lodge that will let you pick your own book to swear on when you join. Traditionally it's the Bible, but inclusivity is so important to them that anything that *you believe* swearing to create a solemn obligation to a higher power is treated as just as valid. They'll let you swear on a copy of Goedel, Escher, Bach if you want to (and can justify it).
The side degrees are less flexible, but Craft Masonry is wiiide open.
Wow interesting post. The anti Catholic charge is one I’ve heard a few times. Officially masons do not discriminate against Catholics or any other religion and in 99.9% of lodges I would think this is true.
However as I wrote back at post 14 some masons are nice some not. Here in Scotland sometimes the same people are members of the Masonic lodge, Orange lodge and Glasgow Rangers Supporters Club. As such I would not expect a Catholic to be that welcome.
The personality of a lodge depends very much on its members. I’ve been made extremely welcome in lodges in other countries but would not have felt comfortable in one a 100 miles away with a lot of orange types.
Do a search for P2 Lodge and Roberto Calvi just to see how bad it can get but don’t judge all on that example.
My Step dad is a Mason and from my experience they are largely older men from a better age dedicated to helping charities and the widows of former members, a nicer bunch of people it would be harder to imagine. They raise a truly amazing sum of money for charities
Hmm. Well my dad always did say there was a fundamental difference between American and Canadian masons.
Canadian Masons really and all honestly don't really give much of a crap if you truly believe in god or not. Just follow the motions and say yes when you get to it.
I can become a mason as soon as I turn 21 (next year) but I don't have the time. I believe that the universe is too ordered (from a physics/spatial ratios perspective) to be completely the result of chaotic creation, But I don't believe in the concept of 'god' as others see it. I told my dad that the concept of a spiritual being watching in the sky watching us is both laughable and sad because just shows that alot of humans are way too into finding patterns in every thing. He said 'even with that pessimistic a viewpoint, you can still join'
And for all the girls who want to join but can't. It really isn't sexism as you might think. It's really just tradition more than anything else. Because a few women and one seeing eye dog has become masons over its history (they accidentaly walked into meetings and got initiated on principal.)
And then there's eastern star. essentially Lady Masonry. And there's a strict NO BOYS ALLOWED POLICY. So I guess the saying really goes, "If you can't beat em or join em, copy and then exclude them."
A few comments from a Taoist Canadian Mason:
- The concern about belief in a Supreme Being: all the ritual and symbology is predicated on such a belief; an athiest would need to do a fair bit of mental gymnastics to get value from it. If you're athiest, try Le Droit Humaine, it's Masonic and allows athiests.
- Not allowing women as members: many of us agree with you, but that tradition in this sense is somewhat fundamental to most members. If you're a women and want to be a Mason, you have the option of Co-Masonry, it's Masonic and allows Men and Women.
- Why people join: Many reasons, some like the charity work, some like the social aspect, some like ritual, some the esoteric stuff, and some the history. It is many things to many people. Personally, I was drawn to the initiatory experience as a right of passage, however YMMV.
- Acceptance/Tolerance: IMHO, the enduring strength of Masonry is the fact that it features core beliefs that are acceptable to most faiths, wrapped in a Judeo/Christian theme due to its historical beginnings. As a Croatian Canadian Taoist (how do you like them apples?), I do a little mental translation in certain parts of the ritual but otherwise do fine. No one has ever made me feel odd due to my spiritual beliefs, even when I took my obligation on the Chuang Tzu.
- Secrets/Handshakes/Password: The historical reasons for Masonic secrecy should be easy to understand; any organization suggesting equality amongst men and understanding across faiths was going to be secretive. In the last 50 years, most of those reasons have evaporated, and even our GLCPOO has stated that with the exception of methods of recognition (those darn Handshakes and Passwords) everything else is fair game.
- Selective Membership: "To be one, ask one" Anyone can ask to join a lodge, and this online discussion has mentioned a few reasons one might be turned away (athiest, female). The other key reason is the character of the individual; although the investigation of applicants is a formality in some lodges, most take that responsibility very seriously. A man doesn't need to be rich, good looking, white or anything else that folks think; he needs to be honest, trustworthy and of good character. Determining those qualifications is difficult, but a key responsibility of any investigation committee. This kind of 'selectivity' is explicit, and is the only type that is countenanced by a lodge.
Teller is two for two - thanks for making my day.
It is true that Masons do not currently discriminate against Catholics. However, Catholics cannot join the Freemasons under pain of excommunication. There are a number of reasons for the prohibition, from Masonry's Deist origins to its involvement with what, depending on your views, were either enforced secularism or anti-religious policies in formerly Catholic countries like Italy and Mexico in the 19th and 20th centuries, respectively. Historically, it's certainly true that Freemasonry and Catholicism were antagonists, but those conflicts are generally extinguished (and both probably are considerably diminished in influence). So the restriction is on the part of Catholicism, no Freemasonry.
Ladies, here's the thing. Women are awesome, beautiful, and amazing. I think most men will agree with this. However, as much as we love you, sometimes guys need to just be with guys ONLY for a while. It is not some plot to oppress or deny women, we males just need to get away from you once in a while. Really, would you want dudes poking their nose into EVERYTHING you do? Of course not; it would annoy the shit out of you. Admit it!
Just thought I'd add that there are in fact types of freemasonry that do not require belief in a Supreme Being. In 1877 the Grand Orient in France declared that it was not necessary to do so, and in several continental European countries the Masons have functioned almost as freethinkers' assosiations and pressure groups, or defence groups, if you will, for those desiring separation of Church and State (the Church being specifically the Roman Catholic Church).
I do not know if an American atheist would have any luck locating this kind of freemasonry in the US. I've seen some sources referring to that parts of Mexican freemasony has been influence by this kind of thinking, however.
"And for all the girls who want to join but can't. It really isn't sexism as you might think. It's really just tradition more than anything else."
Bugsport, your choice to use the word "girls" instead of "women" reveals your prejudice. The word choice itself IS sexist in the given context.
To say it's "just tradition" to exlude women is completely disingenuous. Just say it out loud - Mason's don't believe that women are equal. Feel better? You should. The first step to healing is to acknowledge that you have a problem.
The above applies to all the Masons responding here who continue to insist that their little club accepts EVERYONE.
The comment that 95% of Masons are senior citizens is incorrect. The trend in at least the last decade of younger men joing the fraternity disproves this statement. I would say that this is not only a national trend but possibly a world wide trend for the Masonic fraternity.
I am not a senior citizen and have not been in my 21 years of active membership with the fraternity.
Regards,
Zack Swan P.M.
#96 is spot on - and identifies the main reason for catholic antagonism. With English/Scottish derived masonry, there is more of a religious element and certainly less anti-clericalism than in European masonry. Indeed I know a catholic Mason who had written permission from his bishop to join, as long as he promised to quit if anything contrary to his faith occured...
There is a very active American Co-Masonic movement. Here in San Francisco, a lodge opened up within the last few years (Pharos Lodge). Members follow one of the standard masonic forms and are both men and women. They also tend to be a very different sort of crowd than what you find at the mainstream (or male) Masonic lodges.
http://www.co-masonry.org/Site/English/
Of course, they still require the belief in some sort of higher power. Honestly, masonic ritual doesn't make much sense, ritually, if you don't believe in anything spiritual.
@anonymous,
Masons certainly believe women are equal. My wife doesn't think that I believe she's less than equal to me and fully supported my involvement in Masonry. She couldn't care less that it is a male only organization.
You know, my mother was a Dianic Witch in the 1980s and was involved in a "Womyn" only coven. No men allowed, not even children over the age of eight or so. Does that mean my mom thinks that men aren't equal to women or did it simply mean that a group of women wanted a space to get together, as women, and worship and do ritual?
If you want to be a mason that badly, join the Co-masons, who accept both men and women. It's a much smaller organization but very active and growing. See the link I posted above. Unfortunately for you, mainstream masonry has a tradition, going back nearly 400 years, of being a men's organization. It isn't going to change after centuries. That doesn't mean the organization is trying to oppress women.
@Fee, every Mason will answer differently, but I think one common answer would be that we saw the men who were in the Lodge, found them to be trustworthy and the sort of men we would like to call "brother," and figured, if this is something that they were willing to go through and found worthwhile enough to impart onto others, then it is worth taking that chance. Going through the degrees is an adventure and, like all adventures, you don't know what's going to happen ahead of time. There is a risk involved, but you remind yourself, every one of these men went through the same thing, and they survived, so how bad could it be? As a wise rabbi once said, "by their fruits ye shall know them."
I'm sorry your father-in-law had such a bad experience. Clearly neither he nor the Lodge he joined did their due diligence in investigating one another. Either he was grossly unsuitable for Masonry or he found a terrible Lodge. Either way, that should never have happened.
I am a master mason. I find all of the books and television programs out there to be hilarious. There was an earlier post (#32 I think) that said that the lodge blinded their father to the saving grace of Jesus Christ. I will tell you that is not true, I am a Christian and a Mason. Most masons I know are Christians. As far as some women complaining that they are not allowed, it's a fraternal order, get over it. There is the Order of the Eastern Star (OES) that permits wives and daughters of masons join, and no it's not a parking place there is some very important work done from the OES. The one that completely blows my mind though is there are many people out there that believe we are an evil organization, BUT ask them about the Shrine circus and the Shriner's Hospital and they say what a wonderful organization they are. Here's a little secret for you from the Masons, All Shriners are Masons. :) My lodge wants me to join the Shriners as a clown but it requires that I appear clean shaven for the first year and I've only shaved my mustache off three times since I was thirteen and I'm not doing it again. As far as the real secrets are concerned you'll just have to join to find out what they are. It's not that I'm in fear of the repercushions (sp) of revealing the secrets, it's that I gave my word that I would not and one of the fundamental pricipals of the masons is that truthfulness and honor in all dealings is neccesary (masonic or otherwise). As such you can be sure that when I tell you something (other than a good fish story) that it's the truth and if I promise to do something for you, it will be done if at all possible.
Mark, get your proficiency done and get raised! Good luck.
RJS
Odenton #209
i feel the the consensus seems to be in most "religions" that god has a male form. this could explain the idea that women are not allowed in masonry in most cases. until the idea that god could not possibly have a gender is excepted world, then this will remain the case
in order to become a mason, you have to memorize and repeat some text and actions that relate to god. if you do not believe in god, why would you want to work on such activity? the issue is, you are not told this until you pay your fee and it is too late
First an all day ritual is just for special times
normally it takes more than a month. it depends on different factors, It used to be a lot longer then they dropped the one letter key.If you ask at a lodge they will explain one letter key,And the guy that wouldn't go back .probably was known by some there and wasn't liked. so he was voted out ,(Refused entrance)just didn't want to tell that he was black balled out.It doe's happen