From GOOD: "The remarkable similarity between the arcs of U.S. oil production and songs in Rolling Stone's "500 Greatest Songs of All Time" by year is staggering." (Graph created by Overthinkingit.com)... More.
I always celebrate when a new Terry Pratchett novel hits the stands -- doubly so now that health problems are slowing him down from his normal superhuman output to a merely impressive one. But I confess I was a little less excited to learn that the newest Pratchett Discworld book, Unseen Academica... More.
Joe sez, "The McDonald's franchise at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba is looking for an assistant manager. The ideal candidate will have previous restaurant management experience, a valid U.S. passport and a willingness to relocate to Cuba. Apparently, no special security clearance is requir... More.
Iowa State University researchers developed a system to converts common 2D MRI and CAT medical scans into 3D visualizations, enabling physicians to fly through the body using an Xbox controller. Apparently, their software is much simpler to use, and the visualizations easier to explore, than existin... More.
A reader writes, "The Catena wall clock harkens back to traditional mechanical clocks. Copper digits mounted onto a bicycle chain place emphasis on the cyclical nature of time. This clock is a striking clock, literally and figuratively."
Well, not literally. But figuratively. And man, was this t... More.
RSS Feed
In Sierra Leone, she'd be a general in the army by her age.
I say, let her go.
Let's say the worst happens, and she gets caught in a storm and dies at sea somewhere along the way. At that point, she's already lived a more eventful life than most of the rest of us, and Lifetime has a new movie to make.
I think the government certainly has a right to use proof of really awful parenting to relieve people of their children. Say if a mother was smoking crack while she breastfed her infant.
And the government clearly DOESN'T have a right to do so when they merely disagree with parenting choices; say, when a smoker raises a child, or when a mother lets her 6 year old watch rated R movies.
The question is, does letting your daughter sail her boat around the world cross that line? I suspect not- any kid who's confident enough to try this probably has plenty of experience, and with today's satellite radios and GPS kits, there are plenty of safety nets you can build in. Of course, a journey like this isn't TRULY safe, but is it so far over the line that you can just take their kid?
Naw. This is a bureaucrat who was defied, and said "Oh yeah? I can TOO stop you!"
So, she only has 3 years of solo experience, and she wants to sail around the world alone?
Real smart.
Kids: It's okay to bomb them, but we must protect them from truly living.
If I were her parents, I would see her off and go to jail for it, because it's the right thing to do.
Usually, when someone does a "solo" journey, they have a support vessel following them, just in case. The article was unclear on this point.
This is just the typical illogic of governmental intervention:
"You might screw up your life doing X (smoking pot, smoking crack, sailing around the world at age 13) so, in order to save you, we are going to definitely screw up your life."
She doesn't just want "to learn about the world and to live freely." She wants to break the age record. And she says so in the article.
I don't think the government should get involved. But 13 is a little young to be sailing around the world solo.
Then again, I've never understood the whole "break a record" motivation. Probably because I'm not singularly good enough at any activity that has records to be broken.
Unless the girl can prove that she is mentally and physically able to withstand the perils of the sea, she shouldn't be allowed to take this journey.
"Since I was 10 years old, I've known that I would like to sail around the world"
I think this quote says it all. Allllll the way back when she was ten (read: three years ago), she's wanted to sail around the world. That's fine, but you need to prep yourself for a journey of this magnitude. Sure, there are many technological advances that makes it safer than it was before, this is still an extremely dangerous trip. As they state in the article, what could a 13 year old girl do with a broken mast in heavy seas in the middle of nowhere?
I don't think the government should have to get involved, the parents should know better than to allow this in the first place.
Also, how would you feel if you were one of the parents that let her go and something horrible did happen?
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
Aye, she be a good pirate lass.
I thought I knew everything when I was 13. I am not saying the government has the right to step in, but at the same time, this is a feat accomplished by only a handful of people and unthinkable to generations as recent as a century ago on back. I'm not into overprotecting and sheltering kids from living, or telling youngsters what they are and are not capable of, but it does seem like she might not know exactly when she might be in for. The Capes are damn hard sailing. Follow her with an entourage of press and I'd say let her give it a whirl, but simply letting her go alone seems foolhardy imo, for the parents. Give her 4 or 5 more years and if she still has the dream, then there'd be no stopping her.
This does come after the fact about that teen that sailed around the world. Course, he live on the coast and has been handling sailboats for at least 10 years with his family. And he was 17. Might be the difference.
That or Cali is too hippie to hold people back.
Robin Graham didn't have a support vessel. Neither did Zac Sunderland.
Thirteen is awfully young. But there's a 16 year old girl who plans to leave Australia soon on her own solo circumnavigation. And Zac Sunderland's younger sister wants to do it right after her 16th birthday.
People get hurt and die while sailing. They also get hurt and die while playing football. They get hurt and die while walking to the store. They get hurt and die working on the family farm.
I wouldn't let my own son do it at 16, much less 13. But we don't second guess parents who allow their kids to participate in football, or make them work in the fields.
Man, the lengths some parents will go to just to get their kid out of the house.
One of the arguments used against her plan to sail across the world, is that, as a dutch child, she is legaly obligated to participate in a formal educational program untill the age of 16.
Now, personally, I'm all for her to go and do this trip. She'll learn one hell of a lot more about life sailing solo across the world than she could ever do sitting in a bench in a class somewhere. But from a dutch legal point of view, this creates a dangerous precedent, in a sense that any kid who gets it into its head that he/she would rather sit in their treehouse for the next two years instead of going to school should also have the opportunity to do so.
And actually, I'd be all for that as well, but you know, that's not a view shared by those trying to maintain existing structures.
Come on now.
Of course a thirteen year old girl should not sail around the world solo.
The Dutch government is quite reasonable on a number of scores and seems quite reasonable in this case.
Please read the Wikipedia entry for Jessica Dubroff -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Dubroff. Everybody thought it was pretty cool for her to try to fly across America, and this was with one parent and a pilot in tow.
How many of the people responding in favor of this child's self-aggrandizing fantasy are parents?
She's only 13 - which means, legally her parents' responsibility. If she gets injured or dies, her parents can face (in addition to the grief involved) court for criminal neglect.
She shouldn't do this. When she's legally an adult, she can go as she pleases, but until then she can't. This isn't a matter of drama, there will be no epic music on the background, this isn't a matter of "siding with the underdog", and she really doesn't need to prove anything. She can wait, practice and learn in the meantime. The world won't end, and the sea won't dry up.
The government has every right to step in and prevent her from driving the family car around the block - even if she had her parent's consent. So why not in this case? I don't care how mature she is for her age, a 13 year old is not physically or emotionally prepared to deal with the hazards she would face in the open ocean. Hazards, I dare say, she has not encountered in the seven odd years since she's been engaged in recreational sailing.
I agree with Amsterdam @9. The government shouldn't have to get involved but since the parents apparently don't know any better someone's got to step up and be the grownup.
Um, didn't viking boys head off for their first tastes of rapine and pillage at about 13?
By prohibiting this the government is telling its people that they are neither as strong nor as resourceful as their ancestors. If it is a matter of her being female, well then, that is just sexist.
I'm not sure why this is especially news. I'm unaware of any First World country where this wouldn't happen.
Mind you, in my ideal society, there'd be a good chance she'd be allowed to. But in this non-ideal world, this seems no more remarkable than the authorities stepping in to prevent me from trying to fly off the Brooklyn Bridge with plastic wings.
Recall a certain 7 year old who died trying to break a flying record? (Jessica Dubroff) Recall movie studios getting a certain 14 year old hooked on amphetamines AND barbiturates to get her to finish movies on time (Judy Garland)?
Sometimes the state needs to step in.
I have to wonder how many of these "Let her go, let her live" posters actually have children.
I'm all for letting people follow their dreams but just because a 13 year old wants to do something doesn't mean a responsible parent lets them. (Can you imagine a world in which 13 year olds WERE allowed to follow whatever dream-de-jour took their fancy?)
I have a feeling this is more about fame-lust on both the part of the girl and the parents (how much you want to bet they'll be selling their "story" to the highest bidder whether their daughter dies, disappears or succeeds.)
There's plenty of time to "have a full life" when you're grown up enough to handle it.
Anyone remember the dead little girl who was going to fly across the USA? Wonder how her parents feel about this...
@12: "Also, how would you feel if you were one of the parents that let her go and something horrible did happen?" That's really for her parents to figure out, isn't it? Why does my emotional reaction count?
@19: "The government has every right to step in and prevent her from driving the family car around the block - even if she had her parent's consent."
Yes -- because it's illegal to drive a car without a license (which can only attained at a certain age) or without a licensed supervisor. Is it *illegal* for a 13-year-old to sail? It doesn't say in the article, but if it is, then *that'd* be solid ground to stop her.
In the case of the car as well, there's the issue of public safety because many roads are regularly used by others. I don't see how a girl sailing in the ocean endangers any significant portion of the general population.
Did being a newborn stop Moses from navigating the Nile? No!
In the US, kids are only required to attend school into the 8th grade. I was 13 in the 8th grade, so she could do it if she were a US citizen.
I shutter to think what could happen. Large boats full of adults are captured by pirates routinely on the open ocean.
What chance would a 13 year old girl have?
What this news paragraph doesn't mention is that she'd be gone for 2 years on this sailing adventure. In the Netherlands it's illegal for someone of her age to miss school for that long.
Also, Laura has 3 passports (Dutch, German and New Zealand) - so if the Dutch gov't comes back with a definite neeeee on Friday, she's stated her intention to shop around for a new home.
@#9: This isn't about people screwing up their own lives, this is about people screwing up OTHER people's lives. Parents aren't allowed to make decisions for their children that put them in serious danger.
If a parent let their 13 year old kid leave the house with the family SUV, I'd want the authorities to intervene. 13 is not old enough to drive a car alone.
A 13 year old taking a ship around the world solo, with no support vessel? All my sailing has been on the Great Lakes, and even there I'd be scared for my life sailing solo in a truly big storm. Nighttime, no visibility, 80 mph winds, and 30 foot swells and driving rain? If that's not child endangerment, IDK WTF is. Solo sailors disappear ALL THE TIME.
Imagine a 13 year old murdered someone. IMO, the argument against sending them to jail for life would be that they're too young to make a decision with life-long consequences rationally. They're certainly not old enough to really comprehend mortality. That's part of why they have guardians.
I don't think the kid should be taken away, but for fuck's sake, the government should keep her from going.
Coming soon: John Krakaur's "Into the Ocean"...
They idea of not letting her go seems so anti-darwinian. How will we ever evolve into gilled man-fish with this kind of government intervention in natural selection?
If the Dutch government doesn't already have a law in place that prohibits minors under 16 to operate a boat by themselves (i.e. without any supervision at all), then well, I'd say they fucked up.
Solo sailing circumnavigation of the planet at age 13?
Now that's a free-range kid!
@#19 SOMEGUY
13 is plenty old for this sort of thing. 13 year olds ride horses and dirt bikes. they handle firearms and operate farm machinery. 13 year olds are generally as intelligent as they'll ever be for the rest of their lives. sure, they lack the experience of adult society, but that's not really germane to the issue at hand.
treating 13 year olds like completely helpless children is a big mistake. tell someone they're helpless long enough and they'll start to believe it.
sad thing is, if she was 16, the gov't would likely make the same move. and seriously - are 16 year old girls really any more mature or intelligent than 13 year old girls?
There are some very obviously misinformed people commenting on this topic. Solo sailors don't have support vessels following them. She almost certainly wouldn't do this trip via Cape Horn or the Cape of Good Hope. Recreational sailors, even off the coast of Somalia, are rarely assaulted by pirates.
I'm not trying to say the trip is safe, just that the commenters on this post obviously do not sail, do not follow sailing, and for the most part, do not know what they're talking about.
This is a terrible idea and the kid probably has no idea what is in store. Want to see the world -- great!! Why the rush? Wait till you are older and capable of understanding and appreciating new cultures.
This made me think of that Italian artist who was killed by an unstable man while hitchhiking across Europe in a wedding dress-- she died just a few weeks into her trip.
Death is certain but to knowingly send a kid to certain death is madness.
Interesting "homeschooling" angle here. Germany I know makes homeschooling illegal for reasons of cultural homogeneity. I guess the Netherlands too.
Phikus - The capes may be hard sailing, but I'm pretty sure they put in some canals a while back that make them optional.
@#26
"If a parent let their 13 year old kid leave the house with the family SUV, I'd want the authorities to intervene. 13 is not old enough to drive a car alone."
while i agree that our driving age of 15 for a permit is completely reasonable, in reality 13 year olds have been driving pretty much since cars were invented.
what's dangerous is someone with little or no experience/instruction regarding driving a car, not someones absolute age. a 13 year old whos been driving since he was 11 is a hell of a lot safer than a 23 year old on his first learners permit.
Gloria @22
I thought of the driving as danger to others argument when I was writing my comment and I agree with your point about her sailing not being an immediate danger to others but there are plenty of instances where government regulates or forbids self destructive behavior. And many more instances where laws require that parents make a reasonable effort to provide for the safety of their children - and in my book, a 13 year old is still a child.
@26: Yes, but that's not a hard rule. They *do* make exceptions -- if extremely rarely -- if they consider the guilty party to have demonstrated clear intent and awareness of their actions.
Case in point: A girl here was recently convicted for first-degree murder as an adult (and her crime wasn't the murder act itself, but blackmailing her boyfriend to murder another girl). She's 17 now but was 15 at the time.
as for being legally obligated to attend school until she is 16 - that's a bunch of horseshit, government-mandated-indoctrination-and-obedience-training. i think we'd all be a lot more well rounded and worldly and insightful if we had all taken a few years off school in our teens to pursue our passions, and returned for higher education later.
I suspect while they waste time on this case concerning a very competent and well-raised 13 yr old that some very endangered 13 yr will go without the rescue they need
Some 13 year-olds could do this. Not me when I was that age, but nonetheless It is inappropriate for a government to intervene in something like this. We don't need government to be our mommies. Sometimes people take risks, such as the parents in this case. Perhaps their child will reap the benefits of that risk. Perhaps the parents will suffer the consequences.
Personally, I think this is monumentally stupid. But a stupid feat that all involved should have all right to undertake.
Re: the 7-year-old pilot:
I hadn't heard of this case, so I actually *read* the Wiki entry, which says the National Transportation Safety Board concluded that the accident was caused by the pilot -- the of-age instructor -- taking off in improper conditions.
"Reid [the instructor] was legally the pilot in command for all her flights and was apparently manipulating the controls during this particular flight segment."
Seriously, I personally would not let my 13-year-old do a solo sailing mission, but some of the arguments used here are rather faulty.
@#37 nutbastard
"are 16 year old girls really any more mature or intelligent than 13 year old girls?"
are 13 year old girls really any more mature or intelligent than 10 year old girls
The parents' hands are hardly clean. I have it on good authority that when she was nine they repeatedly refused her strongly expressed desire to eat ice cream for dinner, something which is even less dangerous than sailing solo around the world as a 13-year-old.
And there are other troubling rumors, too, of instances where they unilaterally imposed their will on her, arbitrarily and capriciously denying her things she wanted, even when to do so was conclusively shown to be totally unfair.
How dare they? Never mind what gives the state the right to interfere--what gives them the right? What gives anyone the right to say "no" to a child? Are we supposed to believe that the Dutch government is doing this for any other reason than that they are totally mean and unfair and that they hate this girl and probably wish she had never been born?
The correct link to the Wikipedia article on Jessica Dubroff. And, BTW-
(her flight instructor Joe) "Reid was legally the pilot in command for all her flights and was apparently manipulating the controls during this particular flight segment. The National Transportation Safety Board investigation concluded that the accident was caused by pilot in command Joe Reid's "improper decision to take off into deteriorating weather conditions..."
@#43
"but there are plenty of instances where government regulates or forbids self destructive behavior."
you say it like she's doomed from the start to fail and/or die. sailing around the globe isn't 'self destructive behavior'. risky? yeah, it is, but that's risky at any age, just like dirt biking or using firearms - both things that 13 year olds do all the time.
@#48
there's a lot of mental growth between the ages of 9 and 13. i'd even argue that the majority of cognitive aptitude manifests in this period. so i would say, yes, there's a significant difference between a 10 yo and a 13 yo.
@43: The problem with "reasonable effort" is that it's quite open to interpretation. I don't disagree with your basic opinion, but I'm interested in a structured argument that can be used in court, not gut feeling.
"there are plenty of instances where government regulates or forbids self destructive behavior." I have no argument on the regulation bit, but my question here is whether the government *does* regulate underage sailing.
I'm less sure about the idea of self-destructive behaviour. Such as? I can think of other instances where the government can arrest people for certain offenses, but they are often on grounds other than personal harm. For example, drunkenness = public disorder, or climbing high buildings = trespassing of private property. But they can't stop you from getting dangerously shitfaced at home or climbing Mt. Everest.
I grew up sailing - it takes a not inconsiderable amount of strength to sail a boat out on the open ocean. It is lonely and dangerous and not something you would want for a girl about to hit a major growth period in her life.
Should she be allowed go? No, I don't think so. The whole point of being a parent is to raise and educate your child and to try ensure they live long and happy lives.
This activity could mean a short, frightening, horrific death. But let us assume she makes it - she will start aged 14(ish) and finish aged 16/17. She will have spent her teenage years alone on the open ocean in a confined space with a poor supply of food, little sleep and continuous heavy work. She will probably have no further education until after she gets back.
@#55
"She will have spent her teenage years alone on the open ocean in a confined space with a poor supply of food, little sleep and continuous heavy work. She will probably have no further education until after she gets back."
im sure she'll have plenty of time to kill, and last i checked, books work on the ocean too.
Regarding age, I fail to see how sum total of endured solar orbits equates to a person's capability. The assumption that once you reach a certain age, you magically become capable to drive a car, join the army, give your vote, have sex, or any other act is simply bogus.
I've met forty five year old children, and I've met ten year old sages. Personally, I think people should be allowed to make their own mistakes, so long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. So, for example, a parent should be required to wear a seatbelt because they have a child they are responsible for, but if the average Joe wants to ride without, they are free to risk it. (Assuming their corpse flying through the windshield of their vehicle will not be overly likely to hurt someone else.)
The modern age is a sad shadow of the recent past. My own father lived in a time when he could easily hitch-hike across the continent with little to no money, in a time when chemistry sets could cause explosions, in a time when the front steps of a oublic library weren't watched over by warning signs telling you not to ride your bicycle down them. He lived in a time when people were held accountable for their actions. When people were responsible. In a time when fear didn't paralyze us and keep us from enjoying taking risks and making mistakes.
~D. Walker
16 seems to be about the right age for this since (in the states)you can drive, get a job, join the dep for drafting for war, and be tried as an adult depending on the severity of a crime.
Just some info related to the topic:
The USCG requires that a Master with an Inland License have at least 180 days of sailing experience since their 15th birthday.
A Master with a Near Coastal License wishing to seek their Sailing Endorsement requires at least 360 days of sailing experience since their 15th birthday to qualify for this endorsement 90 of those days within the past three years.
Sailing & Boating in Germany
Information on the rules on boat licences and sailing permits and more.
The Sportseeschifferschein allows sailors to sail yachts (both motor and sailed) in coastal waters up to 30 sea miles from land. For applicants to qualify for this license, they must:
* Be over 16 years old
* Be in possession of a maritime SBF
* Have sailed on yachts as captain in coastal waters for over 1,000 sea miles (with proof from sailing club)
The theoretical exam consists of written and oral tests in:
* Navigation
* Seamanship
* Shipping law
* Weather patterns
The practical exam tests the theoretical aspects in a practical setting as well as life-saving, radar and advanced sailing maneuvers
Could a well-trained thirteen year-old girl survive a solo sailing trip around the world? Perhaps it is not unthinkable. But it strains my credulity to imagine that allowing and encouraging a child to do this fits under any definition of responsible parenting.
This is not a question of going hiking alone or crossing the street alone. Spending many contiguous months at sea without any human contact, in an extremely harsh environment, helps a child in "learning about the world and living freely" to the same degree that becoming an underage prostitute helps in "learning about relationships and expressing yourself."
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
well, thank God the Dutch government has decided to disillusion her about that little aspiration early on. want to live freely? ha ha, get in line, please, behind the rest of us - we were here first.
If she has her international yachtmaster's certificate then she should be allowed to try it.
If not I think she has to take someone with her anyway.
"This activity could mean a short, frightening, horrific death."
The only thing worse than dying is being disallowed to live.
Nutbastard @43
"you say it like she's doomed from the start to fail and/or die. sailing around the globe......yeah, it is, but that's risky at any age, just like dirt biking or using firearms - both things that 13 year olds do all the time."
Kids who go dirt biking or use firearms without direct adult supervision do so outside of the law thereby exposing their parents to legal consequences.
And I've experienced gale-force winds while on a Coast Guard cutter so yes, I sort of do think the probability that the kid is doomed from the get-go is pretty likely.
As far as the schooling until 16 requirement goes... do people in the Netherlands not homeschool at all? I stopped going to school and studied on my own from the age of 13 on. My family did a cross-country trip for half a year and it was great, so I didn't feel the need to return. It seems like a kid today could do all the required schoolwork on a computer. It would lengthen her trip, but mitigate that concern.
I do have to agree that her age and relative inexperience make the journey seem rather risky. They could consider postponing a year or two (still with time to break that oh-so-dear record) and take on a shorter trip of moderate difficulty, to be sure she's ready.
1) The girl is 13 years old. i don't care how mature she is a ten year old should not be aloud to travel the world alone. If the girl wanted to travel the world on an airplane would we all say "let her go"?
2)Sailing Around The World means crossing the two major oceans. I hope she plans on getting an escort because there are lots of interesting people out there no matter where you cross. Think modern-day pirates, then think 13 year old girl.
This is not a good idea.
"Kids who go dirt biking or use firearms without direct adult supervision do so outside of the law thereby exposing their parents to legal consequences."
You're confusing the concept of 'illegal' with the concept of 'wrong'.
I wish people would look to their principles rather than their governments for ultimate guidance.
this is an unfortunately popular sentiment in society, and it's just as bad in the US. there's been lots of posts on BB about parents who trust their kids, and who are seen as pariahs because they dared to let their 3rd grader, wait for it, walk five blocks to soccer practice alone!!!!>
a child performs under-par, and theres a billion dollar industry of medication, therapy, classes and excuses for it... theres no parity for those who excell, cases like this where the government and society steps in an tells you how to raise your wunderkind...
(that is unless you live in the US and your wunderkind/prodigy is a sports phenom, like tiger woods, kobe, lebron, freddy adu, williams sisters, mike tyson, because we can't get enough of parents trying to live vicariously through kids)
Government intervention?
No doubt, if she sets sail, various governments around the world will need to intervene when she encounters trouble. With Coast Guard and various rescue services and very probably Navy resources.
We regularly need to provide such assistance here in Australia to supposedly "adult" solo sailers who embark upon these fanciful odysseys.
Let her go. It's probably only marginally more dangerous than spending the same time in car, and no one bats an eye at that.
That's my rule of thumb: if driving (or riding) in a car to the place where you'll do X is more dangerous than actually doing X, then X is safe enough for me.
Aside from the age and physical requirements of sailing solo around the world, can the young woman pass the oral and written requirements for a master's license in her country? If she is otherwise competent and can demonstrate seamanship, let her take the standard tests and show she is capable. If she had attempted the tests and failed, and that was why her government was saying 'no', I'd find the automatic denial more reasonable.
What the hell? Really letting a 13 year old girl solo around the world in a boat is a good idea? Saying no will ruin her life?
WTF is wrong with this? This is why parents need to take a test on whether they they should be allowed to have children, in fact this should be one of the questions (hint answer yes = Epic Fail).
She'll need to keep a look out for this:
http://invader-zero.deviantart.com/art/Pirate-PedoBear-61539494
Make her read this first, then let her go:
http://www.amazon.com/Maiden-Voyage-Tania-Aebi/dp/0345410122
A bit more information in this article.
Mike Perham crossed the Atlantic solo at 14 and did the globe at 16.
Mike Perham did the Atlantic (known for Pirates of the Caribbean), at 14, globe at 16. Let her spend the next three years sailing and learning how to defend herself with the use of firearms, then maybe. But really are the kids parents "supporting" her or looking to be the parents of a world record holder?
The government has no right to stop a 13 year old from driving the family pickup around the family farm. And they don't. All across the country, unlicensed minors operate motor vehicles on private property.
You don't need a license to drive. You need a license to drive on public roads.
I find it incredibly frightening that anyone here thinks they or the Dutch government should have anything to say about this.
Serious question: how many of you that would stop Laura are pro-choice?
(Note to forestall the inevitable accusations of conservatardery: I am pro-choice.)
It is simply amazing to me the number of commenters here who just flat out assume these are bad parents, that they are glory hounds or something worse.
Read up on the girl. (http://trueslant.com/bartbrouwers/2009/08/22/should-she-stay-or-should-she-go-13-year-old-wants-to-sail-the-world-solo/) (http://trueslant.com/bartbrouwers/2009/08/25/she-goes-laura-dekker-drops-dutch-citizenship-to-sail-the-world/)
She was born on a boat in a middle of a 7 year world trip. She's had her own yacht since she was six. This girl probably knows more about boats than I know about masturbating.
Also, since, at least the mother was present at the birth of Ms. Dekker, AT SEA, I'm wagering the parents also know a fair deal about maritime pursuits. I would venture to say they are pretty damn well qualified to say whether or not she could make the trip.
Also, I'm not a parent, but I know plenty of them, and I have never once seen one say, "Hey, daughter of mine, give it a shot. It may kill you, but at least you'll be famous."
@ 37 - I suppose you haven't grown up any since the age of 13, but between the ages of 13 and 16, I grew up a HELLUVA lot, as do most of the general populace, I'd bet.
I'm not a parent, and I decry the tendency of people to hover over their children like so many surveillance balloons, but this is ridiculous.
And to whoever said that you're only required to stay in school until 8th grade in the U.S.: that varies by state. In Texas, students are required to attend school until they reach the age of 18 unless they are being home-schooled by an adult.
let her go
yes, people should take responsibility for their actions.
no the gummint should not intervene
no, i would not let MY kid do it, but he is only 3
why does everyone insist dirtbikes and handguns are dangerous, 2 of my favorite things
if gummint stops people from doing stuff, eventually we are all couch potatoes who live nice safe flabby boring lives, and get nothing really done.
http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical+Resources/Archives/Reference+Desk/Speeches/JFK/003POF03NationalNeeds05251961.htm
we would not have made it to the moon in less than 10 years if we did not take risk.
OH, wait, we are not taking risk NOW, and? oh, we can't seem to get back to the freakin moon!
at some point the risk aversion must make way for progress and innovation
13 yr old wants to go? let her! woo hoo!
Serious answer to Roku @77:
I'm pro-choice and don't think she should be allowed to go.
It's a very risky proposition and I doubt she's mature enough to handle it... much as having babies is a risky proposition that requires a certain amount of maturity and security, and having a back-alley abortion is very dangerous.
Allowing a person to say "yes I want an abortion to avoid social stigma/financial hardship/medical complications" is something like allowing them to say "no I don't want to risk life and limb sailing around the world," not the inverse.
Granted I don't think abortions should ever be forced, either, but having a baby is a little different than sailing around the world for fun. And having sex at 13 is way more common than having a yacht at 13.
If I were a social worker or a judge I'd be very wary of a parent who said to their 13-year-old kid, "go ahead and have a baby if you want, worry about high school later."
She's a minor, barely above the age of criminal responsibility, too young to drink, too young to drive, too young to be out of school. For her parents to let her go -- alone -- would be, I'd say, criminal neglect... on par with (to stretch the metaphor way too far) failing to explain contraception.
I am probably being way hyperbolic. (Honestly I can't judge the situation on the given information. How alone is "alone"? Is she making stops along the way? What's the route? Will she be in or out of contact?) Maybe government intervention IS going too far, but her parents really should think twice. I'm all for free-ranging, but letting a minor go without supervision in an inherently dangerous environment for months at a time is another story.
Cyberwolf @58
I am profoundly confused by this:
So, to obtain a license to sail a yacht in coastal waters, the applicant must already have sailed a yacht in coastal waters, without a license.
As far as I can see, that comes down to two possibilities:
1) Obtaining the license requires confessing to a crime and providing evidence of one's own guilt
2) The license is basically a vanity certificate for framing on your yacht cabin, as it is legal to sail a yacht in coastal waters without one anyway.
This is Germany we're talking about, so if forced to guess, I'd go with (1) as the correct answer.
As a girl I spent many (disobedient) years before the age of 13 riding my horse in the Arizona desert, away from any adult supervision, away from almost everyone (rarely seeing another human being or building). When I did see someone way out in the desert, it usually involved being shot at by teenage boys who were goofing around, being trampled by my spooked horse, being chased by guys on dirtbikes, tracked by packs of feral dogs, chased by drunk men in cars, etc. I already killed 2 rattlesnakes. I knew all the survival skills to get food and water in the desert if something happened. If something broke I knew how to set it. If I needed a tool I could figure out how to make it. Looking back, with 20/20 hindsight, I can honestly say that, had I known how to sail, I could have circumnavigated the globe.
The average age of Napoleon's "Savants" in Egypt was 17. That was the "average" age. They'd already lived through the French Revolution and graduated from French polytechnical institutes many of them went on to found or head the major scientific foundations of France.
I just think that we really underestimate kids.
Funny to see how some Americans assume that what goes for the US also goes for the rest of the world. In the Netherlands, every child has to go to school until the age of 16. Home-schooling is allowed, provided you have a solid schooling plan. You cannot obtain a driver's license until you are 18. You can take driving lessons by the age of 17, though. Driving without a driver's license is illegal everywhere, even on private property.
But apart from all the legal stuff — young adolescents are in a phase where they really need their peer groups. Being out at sea means being alone for 99% of the time. E-mail is just not the same as having friends to hang out with. Also, a thirteen year old needs her energy as well as her sleep to grow up. She either risks damaging her health or damaging her sailing capacities by doing this.
I'm sure the kid is smart for her age, and I'm happy to believe she's a sublime sailer. But she's 13, and that's the age for being a young adolescent, not for setting world records.
Anon@~38 & Dragonfrog@~41: So you're gonna be bold enough to say you can sail around the world and then take those pussy canals across? You think either would let a solo 13-year-old girl through without incident?
Shanealeslie@~22: The pillaging Vikings of which you speak never sailed solo, and never went without experienced sailors on board apprenticing them.
Also of interest - many have said that the kid doesn't have enough sailing experience.
Vasco da Gama had less sailing experience than her when he took command of a 170-man, 4-ship fleet and headed out into the unknown. He grew up inland, first touched a ship in 1492, and by 1497 was off on his first expedition.
Not the same as sailing solo, no. But still, 7 years' experience is a lot.
Roku et al.,
Stick to the topic, please.
"As they state in the article, what could a 13 year old girl do with a broken mast in heavy seas in the middle of nowhere?"
Um... what would my 38 year old @$$ do with a broken mast in heavy seas in the middle of nowhere for that matter? Die, almost certainly. I can swim, I _might_ be able to remember how to sail, kind of.
If they can provide one or more support ships, I say go for it. Maybe even just her parents sailing along with her, there but separate from her. I'd be okay with that. (Thinking of my own daughters here, one of whom is 13.)
Well, I wouldn't let my daughter do this, but she's -1 months old.
I'm guessing that she'd only get as far as Newfoundland before she gets sick of being alone. Remember that this is a 13 year old girl we are talking about.
"Miss Dekker, who was reportedly born on a yacht off the coast of New Zealand during a seven-year world trip, plans to break that record."
Sounds like a sailing family. She's no rookie at this: she's sailed her entire life, and her parents have monitored her development the entire time.
One of my daughters has been driving off-road trucks for 2 years, since she was 9. Many adults who ride with her admit that she's a better driver than they are. Would I allow her out on the interstate? No, of course not. But as several posters have pointed out, sailing is different than driving on a public road.
Does it invalidate the record if there is a support vessel following her? I mean, as long as there is no help given except in extreme emergency, at which point the attempt is forfeited anyway.
With a support vessel, I would say "go for it!" Truly alone...as a mom myself, I couldn't handle a child of mine doing it. But I don't know this girl, and I don't know her family.
@~83: I think you need to change your handle to THE SECRET LIFE OF KIDS. ;D
Phikus @85:
I'm not saying the kid should be allowed to sail, or that she shouldn't - I've never met her, and anyway I'm not a sailor. I'm saying that the Cape of Good Hope has been optional for well over a century, and Cape Horn for over 30 years.
What sort of incident do you anticipate a 13-14 year old yacht captain would encounter in the canals?
Jeez!... what's the matter with these kids nowadays?
Dragonfrog@~92: "What sort of incident do you anticipate a 13-14 year old yacht captain would encounter in the canals?"
Diplomatic ones for starters. For instance, how does a 13-year-old girl negotiate getting through the panama canal locks in a small craft? Do we assume someone there speaks Dutch? Do they just let anyone through the Suez? I found this quote about the Suez: "The canal may be used in time of war as in time of peace, by every vessel of commerce or of war, without distinction of flag." Sailing to set a record or for pleasure does not fall into either category.
I stand by what I said in my first comment. If there is a support ship and lots of people working to smooth her way diplomatically or otherwise (to make sure she isn't a victim of pirates etc.) then go for it. Totally solo: Are you insane? =D
#26 posted by Anonymous Anyone remember the dead little girl who was going to fly across the USA?
Reports indicated she was alive at the time of her death.
The Children! Who will look out for THE CHILDREN?!
#94 PHIKUS
She has three passports and has been sailing her entire life. I don't imagine that she is restricted to one language.
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely.
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
Uh. Pull out her satphone and call for help just like every other person?
I can't think of anything that I could do on a modern boat that a 13 year old couldn't. There are no physical requirements with modern winches. Learning enough about boat maintenance to do a circumnavigation doesn't take that long as long as you allow yourself to go into port for repairs. It is a rare time where anything requires split-second decisions.
I'm not terribly worried about her missing some sort of formidable period of her life. There are plenty of teenagers who wish they could skip their early teenage years and many others who are complete loners. Really my only concerned is that she'll be a little messed up after. Solo circumnavigators tend to be a little off.
People who have comments about solo sailing might like to read http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE54L5YA20090522
Consider the physical long term effects on a 13 year old girl of months where she is awake in storms for days at a time, eating badly, wearing damp or wet clothes and stressed out, even assuming she doesn't face pirates, broken spars and injury.
Sunderland has yet to finish high school. Even with her family nearby in another vessel do you really think a 13 year old will get much school work done? Nor, BTW has Zac Sunderland achieved a record - his trip was unmonitored and did not comply with the definition of 'Around the World'.
And it seems her mother is not happy about the trip. But of course if you think it is fine for a 13 year old to handle guns, drink, have sex etc - then pay no mind to me.
Guns, drink, sex.. what are you talking about?
As a general principal, me and John Stuart Mill don't think governments should intervene in any action by an individual that does not directly harm others.
As long as that individual is a consenting adult who is fully capable of making the decision.
So how do we determine who is an adult, capable of consenting to undertake great personal risk? With an arbitrary law. Not the best measure, but the only practical one.
She is not old enough to give consent, and it does not automatically follow that her parents can give consent in her stead. In fact the state position that her parents consent is reckless is well justified.
Argue all you want about the capabilities of 13 year olds, we need social mechanisms to safeguard the wellbeing of minors, and the Dutch government is on safe ground with this kind of action.
@#101 - look through the comments :
"13 is plenty old for this sort of thing. 13 year olds ride horses and dirt bikes. they handle firearms and operate farm machinery"
"Um, didn't viking boys head off for their first tastes of rapine and pillage at about 13? "
Phikus
Well, Mike Derham used the Panama Canal in a solo yacht at age 17. I wouldn't assume someone there speaks Dutch, though I'm pretty sure that as a 13 year old Dutch girl, she speaks better English than many native English speakers.
As for the Suez canal - per http://www.cruiserlog.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suez_Canal
You will be advised by a yacht club official (or an official of the Canal Authority), on the correct procedure that you should follow. These procedures can take up to three days to complete and can be done by the yacht's skipper who must first visit the Small Craft Department in the main building of the Canal Authority. Here you will be briefed about the various formalities to be carried out as well as the various fees to be paid. The fees include the transiting fee, an insurance policy, ports and lights fee, etc.
The relatively low cost of using an agent to complete these arduous tasks on your behalf is, however, highly recommended.
So, her parents can, presumably, help line up an agent for her, in advance, by telephone. No need of a support craft for that. (Not that I think a support craft is a bad idea, just that that's not a compelling reason for one)
Antiqueight:
Dunno about you, but when I was 13, I was much much better able to deal with lack of sleep, crummy food, and various discomforts than I am now at 31...
As for pirates - everyone keeps bringing up pirates, and I realize that they're a bit of a meme now. But is it really that likely, as long as she goes by Somalia in with a convoy that has a military escort? Are we basically worrying about terrorists here?
I should clarify, by "Are we basically worrying about terrorists here?" I meant "imaginary bogeymen who command much more fear than is rational", not "is piracy a subset of and/or equivalent crime to terrorism"
how did the government become aware of this in the first place? Why were they involved at all? Who told them? Does this sailing have to be public to make a record? That makes it a stunt.
As to a "mere 13 year old girl" not being physically up to marine emergencies: if the sea wants you it doesn't matter if you are three hundred pounds of scarred, malignant and experienced muscle, you're still just a bug to be squashed as if you had never been in the first place. It just depends on your luck.
Parents....hmmmm... Pippi Longstocking was an orphan, wasn't she? I could see sending my child off in a small boat to live or die as the ocean commanded - but only if we were a family in a society that had always lived on and by the sea.
@dragonfrog My point was for her physical development and as for pirates, it seems Zac had some trouble with them though they would not have come to my mind as a problem otherwise.
@Takuan Yes - to be a record it has to be monitored and recorded by the appropriate officials. But I think it was her parents who informed the dutch government, it is in one of the articles (since they are not sailing record officials)
Good night from me - I'll be curious to see where this has gotten in the morning..(later in the morning that is)
107 comments, and only one is necessary.
It's up to her and her parents.
I reckon before anyone tries anything of this magnitude they should watch the videos of Dame Ellen MacArthur whilst she was sailing around the world single-handedly. Didn't look like she was having much fun, and isn't that what childhood should be about?
Oh, first time at trying to use HTML. If it didn't work, apologies.
Sorry but the government does have a legitimate interest in the welfare of children. In most civilized countries, an empty refrigerator and lack of running water in a home are grounds to remove a child. Like it or lump it, it's about parental responsibilities, not rights. This girl can circumnavigate the globe when she's of age. Until then, a two year trip around the world, unsupervised, constitutes parental abandoment--you don't even need the sailing component.
People who think it's a good idea for a 13 year old kid to do this haven't talked at length with a 13 year old lately. They are still kids. Clueless about so many things. Even if she survived, zero social development for those years would be really bad.
Plus, to the guy who has a kid who drives off road at 9 or whatever- just keep that kid off the road and away from my family, thank you very much.
On the internet, there are people who will argue about anything, and I've done my part for the day I guess.
#103 I'm not sure if you're serious.
I don't see the problem with 13 year olds riding horses, skiing down black runs, firing rocket propelled grenades, driving combine harvesters or whatever, if they've been trained to, and provided they're not coerced.
13 year olds drinking small quantities of alcohol occasionally, why not?
Rapine and pillage, no.
#108 Orpheus84
Dame Helen MacArthur was trying to break the speed record, not the age limit.
Ellen MacArthur? Is that the footage of a woman weeping in rank terror in the face of a storm that is killing her?
@109: I've met four year olds with eyes older than yours. Lets us not forget in the blaze of publicity that children are thrown on the garbage heap every day and everywhere without attracting any notice at all.
People of earth,
Stop putting slashes, periods or other punctuation marks at the end of Wikipedia URLs. Thank you.
Ellen MacArthur. (I've no idea where I got 'Helen' from).
Podkayne of Holland. Oh boy. Sarcasm intended and directed at the overwhelmingly dreary number of cheerleaders in this thread.
There are a lot of posters here talking about sailing the open seas as if it's a vast empty space and the only life endangered is her own. However, she will undoubtedly sail in busy shipping lanes, full of ships that endanger and are endangered by her presence. A container ship or tanker will run over her small vessel without knowing it. A collision with a smaller vessel could sink both with great loss of life and property.
The ports are often dirty, unfriendly places full of unscrupulous people. There are pirates not only in Somalia, but also all over South America and the Indian Ocean. And there are all manner of other nasty, opportunistic people.
She will transit all THREE oceans (don't forget the Indian, one of the roughest in the world). Rarely will help be just a phone call away. More often it will be days, weeks, or months away. Or they won't be able to find her at all. Any emergency rescue will risk the lives of her rescuers as well as her own, not to mention the cost to taxpayers if she is rescued by some government entity. And what if her yacht is impounded and she is detained by an unfriendly government?
And another thing-
Why can't she wait a few more years? Someone who dies alone on a sailboat in the middle of a stormy ocean after only 13 years of life has not lived life to the fullest, no matter how fraught with danger the last six months are.
Extreme risk-taking is not the only way to live life to the fullest. What about enjoying a nice beer or taking your daughter to the zoo? Does everything always have to be so extreme?
Eh, boiled down,,,not my child. If she does and makes it good for her. If she does and dies well very sad. This will not affect my life either way, nor any poster here unless they are priming their over indulged children for a record.
I for one welcome our new frustrated moderator overlords.
Simply put, I don't see how this is something the government should even have a say in. It has nothing to do with them.
No crime is being committed and nobody is being forced to do anything against their will. The parents and the kid will be assuming full responsibility for their actions whatever the consequences are. They should be allowed the freedom to do that.
#122: For one thing, her voyage would begin in Dutch waters, full of other Dutch ships and other Dutch people. The Dutch government regulates all those things. And if her voyage goes wrong in that vicinity, it will be Dutch emergency personnel responsible for rescuing her.
Subsequently, she will find herself in the waters of any number of other countries, many of whom will agree that this child's solo trip is an unreasonable risk to physical and financial well-being of their nationals.
the glare of publicity would protect her from two-legged lampreys.
I've Just been listening to NZ national radio where this story was being discussed; there's a slightly different slant here in NZ as the girl is applying for NZ citizenship (having been born in our waters) and would therefore be exempt from sole Dutch authority.
A woman who is a champion offshore sailor here was asked what she thought of the circumnavigation plan suggested that, if she was mature enough to organise the entire project; sponsorship, navigational planning, supplies etc, then she would probably be up to the journey herself. She was ready to admit that, in her own case, she was asked to ponder on such matters when she wanted to sail the Pacific at 15. She decided to postpone the voyage for a couple of years.
sailing around the world ALONE at the age of 13 is a sure death sentence. i don't like government mindin' my bid-nez, but in this case, they MUST stop the parents. the 13 year old clearly cannot make a sound decision in this case (nor can her id-jit parental units)
I also immediately thought of Jessica Dubroff.
If a 13-year-old makes this trip, what next- a 10-year-old? A 7-year-old? There's a line here somewhere, folks, and we can't depend on "reasonable parents" to draw it, because not all parents are reasonable. Some will put their child in serious danger for a chance at fame and profit- Dubroff being the obvious example.
Can't a 13-year-old make this decision?
Um, no.
A child of exceptional ability? One in a million?
How wonderful for her. NO.
If this girl wants to "live freely", great. She can- when she's of legal age. Until then, if her parents don't moderate her choices/risks, then society should step in.
I'm a belgian who often watch the dutch television (it's the same language we speak) and saw the docu about her. Let me clearify something about this girl. She born in New Sealand and did grow up on sailing boats. She knows the ship inside out and did already do long trips alone with her own boat since 3 years, and with her parents for 13 years, even trough very rough weather.
I don't know if the girl is ready, but she insisted herself to do this trip, and her parents were against it. She could convince her parents and she said on the news she would do it, with or without the permission of the Dutch gouverment. This is no naieve girl, nor forced by her parents.
My ex girlfriend did live alone on the street as stateless gypsy refugee between her 5 and 20 year and did make it. She did run away from the gypsy concentration camps from dictator Chauchesku in Romania in 1989 to germany and ended up in Brussels where she now lives like you and me, but richer... Just to show that children can do a lot, and shouldn't be overprotected. Maybe this girl could do this trip better than 99% of the adults who sail. But i don't know, i don't know that girl. So don't judge her.
Couple of things which haven't been noted here yet:
The girl is 13 now, but will be turning 14 this week.
She intends to take "distance learning" to keep up her education during her voyage, so she is ready to take high school exams upon returning home.
How about this headline for outrage:
"US Government tries to stop 50-year-old person from using marijuana"
Oh right: that makes good sense and good public policy...LOL
I find it interesting that everyone who has spoken so far in support of letting her go has conceded that her parents have a role to play in deciding whether or not she can go. If that's the case, isn't it because she is *not* at the age where she is a fully rational actor and thus needs gaurdians?
And who says her parents are necessarily the best gaurdians? The state certainly has a role to play as well.
Well, I'm going to have to come down on the side of the government in this one.
She can live her life as freely as she wants to-once she's an adult. The oceans will still be there to be sailed, and she will be old enough to make a competent choice.
That her parents are encouraging this is rather scary-she isn't asking to sail to the UK- a rather nice trip in a small boat-but off through some of the hardest sailing to be found. If she is currently capable if pulling this off she will still be able to once she's not a minor. Why the big rush? Is the trip not reason enough, but she must be the youngest person ever?
As for changing citizenship, I would assume that in NZ minors can only immigrate with their parents/guardians. So if she was to apply as an emancipated minor, under what grounds would she need emancipation? That the Dutch government wouldn't let her sail around the world solo? Would that even work?
Ok, I'm with the nay-sayers here. This 13 year old girl shouldn't be allowed to do this, especially with such limited experience at sea. However, what -really- stands out to me as STUPID is the 25 foot boat.
Sailing around the world is tough, sailing around the world in a flipping 25 foot boat is nearly suicidal. No well-seasoned sailor would even consider taking a 25 foot sailboat around the planet, when they -do- take something this small around it's usually a stupid stunt. 25 foot boats are built as coastal cruisers without the necessary safety equipment, build quality (ruggedness), and fuel/water capacity's for a round-the-world trip. Even if she avoids the capes (using the panama/suez canals) any reasonably tough weather is going to put her life in jeapordy. These boats aren't built to Ocean A (able to stand up for an extended period to force 8 winds) standards. Point me to even ONE 25 foot boat (that isn't a one-off built for a stupid sailor stunt) that can make a trip like this safely.
I'm all for her testing the horizon a few short years from now, but I hope she does it in a bigger boat. You know if her parents are so keen on letting her sail why don't they go with her. I've known plenty of family's with children her age and younger that made round-the-world journeys happen. The only thing letting her sail solo gets her is a stupid record written or a stupid obituary. She can be "free" and live life just fine with responsible adults there to help keep her alive.
Bender Sez: "People who think it's a good idea for a 13 year old kid to do this haven't talked at length with a 13 year old lately. They are still kids"
And when you've met every possible 13 year old in the world, I will 100% believe your opinion of them.
But you haven't, so your opinion means squat. Anecdotal evidence, isn't.
To everyone else who wants to boss around other parents, same deal. This is more a parent's right issue in my mind than a should she/shouldn't she issue. I don't want the Nanny State telling me what adventures I can trust my kids on (as long as it doesn't really threaten anyone else's lives, hands off!). Don't want your kid doing it? Fine. Don't want MY kid doing it? Who elected you Grand High Poohbah of Pubescence? Mind your own sodding business, and get out of my family. You don't know MY kid.
"Why the big rush? Is the trip not reason enough, but she must be the youngest person ever?"
Well said, Heydemann3. I blame the parents if they encourage her to do a stunt. Sailing around the world is a challenging and thrilling adventure even if you don't go alone and break world records! Why not go with a crew (including at least an experienced adult, hopefully) so as to be able to have time to keep up on schoolwork while sailing? Not to mention have better chance in the face of storms, collisions, bad encounters, etc.
It's amazing all the people who say "the government shouldn't have anything to say" and forget this is about a 13-year-old citizen of a country where school is mendatory for kids under 16. You may yell "nanny state", but it's not your country.
@ #131 Daedalus-
Last year in my town, police were called to a house filled with dogs, trash, feces on the floor, and small children crawling around in it. I'm not for the government raising my child, but I don't expect them to ignore idiot parenting either.
As someone else said, a line must be drawn somewhere. You can bet IF this young sailing girl was successful, there would be parents willing to let their 10 year old have a whack at it.
Irene Delse Sez: "It's amazing all the people who say "the government shouldn't have anything to say" and forget this is about a 13-year-old citizen of a country where school is mendatory for kids under 16. You may yell "nanny state", but it's not your country."
This is a fair enough point. What makes you think I'm any happier about mandatory public schooling, though? Sailing around the world certainly educates her in mathematics (measurements, angles), basic physics (fluid dynamics), global society (the "learn about the world" stuff), physical education (health, hydration, food, sunlight), even language skills (versus all the other languages she might encounter). With the legal rigamarole, she's getting an education on Dutch civics, to boot. I can't imagine any year I've spent at school that was so productive (though I'm a product of the US school system, so maybe that's just me).
The lack of freedom to give your kids an education that you design and guide is ALSO a problem of the nanny state.
Bender Sez: "Last year in my town, police were called to a house filled with dogs, trash, feces on the floor, and small children crawling around in it. I'm not for the government raising my child, but I don't expect them to ignore idiot parenting either.
As someone else said, a line must be drawn somewhere. You can bet IF this young sailing girl was successful, there would be parents willing to let their 10 year old have a whack at it."
Slippery slope arguments don't carry a whole lot of weight with me, I'm afraid. In this case, it is clearly wrong for the state to step in. Perhaps in others it is not so clear, but we'll debate the merits of that when those issues come up. In this case, nothing like either of those examples you put up was attempted. This isn't about living in squallor or sending a toddler up in a zeppelin. This is about a 13 year old girl who clearly knows how to sail being stopped by people who clearly don't know that girl.
She's not dying of cancer or in need of some other make-a-wish excursion, so I can't see why this has to happen at 13. She's not old enough to drive a car, vote, serve in the military, or drink--so why would this be any different.
Why doesn't a parent or trained adult just go with her?
Dragonfrog: I see. Assume everyone speaks English and everything's gonna be hunky dory. -FAIL!
Why not go with a crew
Are you paying for the crew? She's gotten sponsorships on the basis of doing it solo and being the youngest.
As a parent I encourage her parents to assess the safety and risks involved, her skills, and make the decision they feel best for her. She was born on a boat and both her and her parents have a tremendous amount of sailing experience, so they know the risks and are fully capable of making an informed choice. I encourage the government and other people to stay out of their business unless it seems like reckless endangerment, which this obviously is not.
I think the point is missed here... She can undoubtedly sail, perhaps even around the world, but for the love of god don't let her do this on a 25 foot boat.
Even old salt wouldn't do something so stupid. I wouldn't hit real blue water in anything shy of 32 feet (and that 32 footer better be a real ocean passage making vessel, most sailboats smaller are simply not designed for true ocean travel).
Her parents are experienced enough to know this, even if they aren't showing the best overall judgment in this case. Letting her sail around the world alone at 13 is dubious, letting her do it in a 25 foot production-line coastal cruiser is borderline criminal.
Look, ships from all over the world, captained by people who speak all the languages of the world, somehow manage to get through the canals. What do you think the international language of commerce and shipping is, anyway, ancient Aramaic?
I'm not assuming everyone will speak any particular language - I'm assuming the kid has probably done her homework, given that she has at least convinced her parents and cleared sponsorship, presumably from someone who doesn't part with that kind of money lightly. I guess alternately I could take your approach and assume the fact that she and her whole family pretty much live on the ocean means that they never plan more than ten minutes in advance, and everything will be full of doom and disaster before the milk in the boat's kitchen sours. But then my life would suck.
I am an experienced sailor and age is only one issue. Sailing and provisioning a boat that is only 25 feet for a circumnavigation is extremely difficult for the most experienced sailor. Also a good point is that there are very few 25 foot boats worthy of blue water sailing.
I am all about personal freedom but this just seems negligent to me. Risk is fine and even for a 13 year old but to me the parents should not be allowing this to happen. The fact that they are is evidence that they may not have the judgement necessary to be parents.
On the other hand there are too many people in the world so my Darwinist side says allow it to happen. The world can use another sailing record or survive with one less 13 year old.
Dragonfrog: You assume much, about the littlest sailor and about me. I am not full of doom and gloom and have posted a pretty moderate stance here, relatively speaking. All I have been saying is that, despite how gifted she clearly must be, she probably has no concept of the kinds of difficulties she would encounter if she were to do this completely alone and without accompaniment of any kind. As others have pointed out above, just to break a record is hardly a good reason to risk one's life in such a foolhardy venture when a few more years could give her the experience that could save her life and ensure her success. ;D
@ Antinous #142: I meant, why not try to *join* a crew when one wants to sail. Or find other young people with the same passion and join forces (and budgets). I was thinking about something like the sports/school programs for young athletes. I don't know about the possibilities in the Nederlands, but IIRC, there are "sailboat schools" programs in France for teenagers.
BTW, shame on the sponsors too for supporting this stunt... The parents are not the only ones irresponsible, here.
@141: The operators of both the Panama and Suez canals speak English. This should not be surprising as they were built by the US and England, respectively.
This reeks of government over stepping its bounds. She should have every right to do as she damn well pleases; given here parents permission (she is only 13 remember). I am sick and tired of idiot government officals trying to protect us from ourselves. That is NOT their flippin jobs and has never been their job.
"I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."
Well no, I'm afraid we can't let you do that. Freedom is very dangerous, you see, and we just want to make sure you're protected from it. We're here to help.
Thirteen is older than it sounds. Many primitive societies consider teenagers to be adults.
Nevertheless, in the U.S. this would get shut down in a heartbeat just because it reminds everybody of a similar situation, just about the worst outcome possible, and with a seven-year-old.
Dead kids offer zero heartwarming human-interest value to readers and advertisers.
http://www.sfgate.com/special/jessica/
Wanna roll the dice, Boing Boing?
You mean the same Jessica who wasn't flying the plane when it crashed? And who didn't make the decision to fly in a storm? The Jessica who happened to be killed when her adult flight instructor was flying?
#133, #144, #146 thank you for adding logic and reason to this. You all obviously know more about this than the girl or her parents do. It's doubtful any greatly seasoned sailor could sail a 25 ft. craft around the world and for a 13 year old girl it's clearly suicide. Absolutely the government has the right to protect her from a life threatening decision she isn't capable of making wisely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yR7ONpWlIE
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/age-record-set-by-british-sailor/article1266438/
focus.
focus again
good post, thanks.
@2 posted by TJ S
What is eventful about sailing around the world?
No life is worth so little, there are many things to do, many far more important and interesting, during a lifetime, sailing for a few months would be only one very small aspect of a fulfiled life.
Dear god - I totally missed the size of the boat, well spotted.
@#38 (Anonymous) - I would hope that, being Dutch, she knows better than to challenge the Cape of Good Hope, esp. during a storm. The last Dutchman who tried that wound up doomed to sail endlessly, playing an interminable game of chess with the Devil (or searching for a woman who would be true, depending on which sailor's tellin' the tale...) Bon Voyage, young Laura, and pack a few CDs for those lonely nights at sea. I recommend some Wagner...
The father sounds like a complete fool. Perhaps the Dutch court should grant the girl permission on one condition: if she dies at sea the father goes to jail for life.
Update:
Laura Dekker has been taken into care by the Utrecht Youth Care agency; case to be reviewed in two months.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8226196.stm
It's truly sad and frightening to see BoingBoing denizens support children in theory:
-freerangekids.org
-Daniel Pinkwater is awesome
-Little Brother is awesome
but when it comes time to actually back the efforts of children to live independently, you side with the authority you claim to despise and oppose.
Um, I did that in 1995.
I don't think things have changed as much as you think.
@166:
You seem to be making a slippery slope argument. You have to understand that letting a 6-year-old take a bus across town is in NO WAY EQUIVALENT to a 13-year-old performing a solo circumnavigation.
I think Laura should be able to go. True, she is a bit young, and she only has three years of experience under her belt, but in the TFK magazine (Time for kids) Laura states that adults always think that kids are too young to do anything. I want to prove that kids can do anything that they set they're minds to.
It is true, because adults never let kids do anything, and she could prove that girls can be better at boys at times, (yeah, that's right, BOYS! The girls are back and gonna get you!) and she can prove girls aren't weak at all. We can be gentle, kind, loving, and tough at the same time, can't we?
So I honestly support Laura in her desicion. GO LAURA!!