Bill O'Reilly recently invited a couple of pert blond Republican strategists to frighten Fox viewers about Amsterdam's lax pot laws, which have made the city a "mess," and "cesspool of corruption."
The video above was made by a citizen of Amsterdam who used real statistics about drug use in his city compared with drug use in the US.
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That was all obviously staged and those statistics, puh, euros cant do math.
Fox news is a cesspool itself. I really can't tell if I learn more from so-called news stations or those found on comedy central.
The Netherlands is actually in the proces of closing prisons, since there isn't enough crime to fill them.
http://www.nrc.nl/international/article2246821.ece/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals
"Facts." "Statistics." Feh!
Bill O'Reilly has truthiness on his side.
If you visit Amsterdam what will strike you is just how pretty and civilized the town is, and how relatively marginal the Pot aspect is. At least, you really don't get the feeling that the City is "about" the pot or the red district: Those are merely the more prurient aspects that Americans focus on because of the mind-boggling concept of FREEDOM.
The Amsterdam Department of Tourism should buy this ad and broadcast it!
I'm pretty suspicious of the claim that only 22.6% of people in Amsterdam have used cannabis, though. This study says that 38% of people in Amsterdam had used cannabis, and that was in 2001. The study had found it had been increasing over the preceding 10 years, so I'd expect it to have increased further, not rapidly declined.
Does Fox News have the right to use the word "News" in their name? Sure, they DO report some news, but so much of their air time is dedicated to opinion shows, to say nothing of purely invented BS like this.
I don't see how you can have the opinion that Amsterdam has descended into anarchy, unless perhaps you are completely schizophrenic.
Did she say "free drugs"? Wow, so you don't even have to pay for them anymore?
If the FDA can come down on Airborne or Cheerios for making unproven claims about their products, can't the FCC require Fox News to remove "News" from their name? Oh, but that would just be more proof of Obama's tyrannical aims.
Fits right in with their claims that millions of Canadians are dying every day as a result of Canada's universal health care.
What?! Bill O'Reilly relating a story with a slant, political agenda and without absolute sterling honesty!? OMG! /sarcasm
Seriously, great job by the Amster..donian, Amsterdamite, um, that person from Amsterdam. Let the facts speak for themselves. Too bad their YouTube vid won't get the coverage that Bill gets.
Samsam@5: "I'm pretty suspicious of the claim that only 22.6% of people in Amsterdam have used cannabis"
The video compared the Netherlands to the US, not Amsterdam in specific.
I would not be surprised to find large cities typically have a higher use than the nations they are in.
I'm always suspicious of the use of statistics, when one number is placed against another number, but it's not clear if both numbers are measuring the same thing, or are from the same source.
In my experience, the author could be cherry picking a report with a high US numbers for drug related deaths, but a separate report with a low number for drug related deaths in Amsterdam.
There are several sources cited at the end, but again it's not clear what number is from where.
That being said, it's at least more thought provoking than the conjecture and opinion of the Fox news anchors that's shown, but then again, I didn't see that entire broadcast and they may have had statistics in their broadcast as well.
If your sole measure of the lawlessness of a city is the rate of bicycle thefts, then maybe you could paint Amsterdam as the great wild west compared with a peaceful paradise like Los Angeles.
Sigh.
I should have kept ParisBusinessReview.com
Oh, well.
To be fair, Coffeshops are being closed in Amsterdam and the government is citing corruption as the reason. Mainly that organized crime is using the coffeeshops to launder money.
I have a theory about this. It is not legal to cultivate pot in the Netherlands, but it is tolerated. This is a gray market in which there really is no accountability. The pot just magically appears in the coffeeshops where it is legal to sell. This just calls out for money laundering if you ask me. The cultivators aren't showing where the money comes from to the government, but everything is fine once it reaches the retailer and they report income and expenses. Of course criminals with illegally acquired money will see this as an opportunity. I think they would be better off completely legalizing it and licensing the cultivators so that the cultivation market would be above ground and able to be monitored. This would make it much more difficult for criminals to launder money through these operations.
But the comments from O'Reilly and company are pretty laughable. (says the man who had his passport stolen in Amsterdam)
Are they bicycle "thefts"? Remember the Provos? They were an early 60s group of people who placed public use bicycles around Amsterdam. I think they painted them white, signifying free. At one time there were hundreds of them.
I have no idea how accurate any of the statistical data are (yes, "data" is plural in this case), but I do know that a great deal of irresponsible behavior results from a combination of poor education and a desire to rebel against "the system." As I often explain to my students, most bullies continue to bully as long as their victims react. Likewise, a lot of rebellious teen behavior is precisely that: they do risky things because Mom, Dad, the law, etc. tell them not to, and not so much because of any overwhelming desire to do said activity.
Some Americans I've known went to the Netherlands specifically to get "legal" drugs & prostitution. While they probably enjoyed themselves, they found that basically the main differences between there and an American city were: 1. In Amsterdam, they didn't have to look over their shoulder the whole time, and 2. They were the only ones acting all goofy about the drugs & sex.
And I'm sure there are a lot of Netherlanders who, like myself, would not care to take drugs and who would keep the sex within one's marriage. To each his own.
I wonder how long Bill O'Reilly has been pushing this line on Amsterdam.
My mother is, shamefully, a fan of his. A couple years ago, she actually opted to skip a trip to Europe with some friends because she would have had to fly into Amsterdam on her own and travel from there to meet up with them.
She was convinced that Amsterdam was a terrifying, lawless, drug-fueled hell hole and was completely astonished (although, to her credit, convinced) when I told her that it was actually the nicest, cleanest, safest feeling city I'd visited in Europe.
I was in the Netherlands many years ago (over 10) and not in Amsterdam, but in Nijmegan. A local was showing us around the city one night and he turned to take a shortcut down a very dark winding alley. We hesitated for a minute and he told us, "Your chance of being mugged or attacked here is pretty much zero. You might get your wallet stolen in a crowd or if you set your camera down and look away, someone might grab it, but no one is going to pull a knife or gun on you or bash you in the head to steal your wallet."
I wish the same could be said for similar looking areas in U.S. cities.
Facts have a liberal bias. O'Reilly is a faith-based reporter.
#13, I always wondered about the cultivation laws and why there was such an obvious loophole. I didn't know about it until I read Botany of Desire by Michael Pollan.
@buddy66
I've never heard of the Provos, but in the 90s Portland had a "Yellow Bike" project that did the same thing, leaving free bikes for people to use.
Some tv news show--i think it was 20/20--did a story on the Yellow Bikes, and decided to see what happened if they took some Yellow Bikes to NYC. Some of the people took the bike, used it and left it for others. One guy took the bike, ran errands on it, then locked it up. When asked by the newscrew he insisted it was his bike and he'd had it for years.
But to get back OT: O'Reilly is an ass.
Bill O'Reilly is the very dangerous drug of choice for vast legions of anti-progressive, intolerant, racist, obese, intellectually lazy Americans who need frequent doses of bullshit to maintain the integrity of their absurd world-view.
That said, there is something entertaining, and even admirable, I think, about the man. He stands by his convictions (what could be more admirable than that?), and he is passionate.
All in all, though I hate just about all of his ideas more than I am really able to express, I would prefer watching him any night over some mealy mouthed, feckless liberal.
So where is the counterpoint in our society to such scourges as Bill O'Reilly and his ilk? The American Liberal has become distracted, it seems, by comic books, careerism, steam-punk doodads, etc., and no longer has time for meaningful social protest (gay marriage, and abortion being two possible exceptions).
Meanwhile, entire tracts of American men have been removed from our society as a result of our INSANE drug laws. Most of our cities look terrible, the prevailing ethos of consumerism leaves an aching void, and we seem to be willing to do everything within our power to expand the underclass -- rife with so-called drug "criminals" as it is. I can't imagine Holland as any thing other than a kind of paradise compared to what we are forced to endure.
Lest I seem too much like a self-hating liberal, I would also say that we may not deserve all the blame. Maybe we indulge ourselves in our diversions when we come to accept the reality of the impossibility of doing anything meaningful. Maybe we're just in a certain cycle of history that has to run it's course. Nothing to be done about it. May as well bake a cake or make a potato cannon. I know I'm at a loss. We can't even get Joe Arpaio deposed. So sad.
Unfortunately, there's no good example of a country with lax drug laws and anarchy. Portugal decriminalized marijuana, cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine, and experienced a dramatic drop in drug use and and a rise in addicts getting treatment.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Ill Lich @7, not only does Fox "News" have the right to call itself that, but they've also won a court case establishing that they've got the legal right to tell deliberate lies and call it news.
Born and raised in Amsterdam, son of liberal parents, and child of the Flower Power era I have never used cannabis in any form. Yes, it's easily available but that takes away any hint of secrecy and desire. I've never had to resort to prostitutes for my sexual desires, though I've lived literally around the corner from them. I've worked for a while in the Red Light district and have spoken with many working girls; each friendlier than the other once you speak with them outside "office hours".
The only people who are really worrying about or interested in the soft drugs and prostitution business are tourists and politicians. Tourists because Amsterdam is the only place they'll ever see cannabis or prostitutes up close without consequence. Politicians because worrying about what nobody cares about is what they're job is all about. Legalize cannabis and prositution (which in name it is but in fact is not when the revenue office just slaps on a tax assessment based on guestimates and when banks won't let prostitutes open bank accounts) and criminals all of a sudden loose interest in these lines of business. Remember Prohibition?
I've spent a lot of time in both Amsterdam and Florida. I know where I felt safer.
The only annoying and possibly dangerous thing I have run into in Amsterdam are drunken English louts.
No offense, non-lout English types, but the weekend booze and smoke-up by English tourists is the worst part of living in or visiting Amsterdam. I recommend Amsterdam and the surrounds for a vacation, but try to plan your trip around any major influx of young British (and to a lesser extent, German and French) tourists.
I blame cheap air-fare, and the inability of many young English travellers to not automatically binge-drink until they go blind.
Plainly put, American drug-related problems are an issue with America and Americans, not the drugs.
Isn't O'Reilly the guy that got caught trafficking in prescription meds?
@ Gatonegro #25:
O'Reilly viewers never travel outside the U.S. It would be unpatriotic.
As a lifelong resident of Amsterdam let me give my impressions:
SKR is on the money. Cannabis production is illegal, whereas selling it is more or less legal. This has indeed been a boon for organised crime. The solution of course is to bring the entire process from seed to smoke under legal scrutiny, not to push sales and use back into the underworld.
And yes, Buddy66 bicycle theft is rampant. So much so that most people don't even report it anymore (it's a lot of hassle and chances of recovery are exactly zero) If you park your bike outside it will get stolen sooner or later. If you don't use at least two locks (one to fix the front wheel to the frame and one to fix the frame to a huge piece of metal that is bolted down) your bike or a large chunk of it will be gone within an hour in some parts.
There is a puritanical backlash going on at the moment mostly by the socialist/christian coalition in charge of the nation. (which of the two groups is the more socially conservative remains to be seen) Abortion has become a contested topic again after three decades of liberal laws. Gays feel less safe on the street. Nasty demagogues are decrying "Islamisation" when in fact muslims in the Netherlands are leaving their mosques at about the same rate as the christians are leaving their churches. (down from 47% to 35% over the last decade according to the paper today)
Oh well, another recession and another round of the politics of fear. Within a decade we're in another bubble and nobody will give a damn.
I'm very happy this has been posted. I'm actually moving to the Netherlands very soon for graduate work, I've never been there, and for the last 10 years I've lived in New York City - variously in Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, Flatbush, Bushwick, Williamsburgh, Sunnyside, Long Island City, Astoria, UWS and Hell's Kitchen. I'm going to forward this video to all my friends to make them jealous enough to come and visit. Thanks!
@Pyros.
Wow! Well perhaps you have a recommendation for action or a model liberal in mind? The way I understand it "potato-cannon liberals" don't have a countervailing propagandist force because it is not the way many liberals think.
The conservative model I think looks something like this (correct me if I am wrong): Have a policy or goal in mind (ie political or financial advancement), look to think tanks and professional advisors for a way to make the political system produce those results (ie spin as hard as your political base can accept, play political games/loopholes, all the cleverness that money can buy.. etc).
Now the liberal model is more like this: Consider the context of the domain within which you make your policies, some policies are coming from academia (science, social studies, economics, etc) and others are in reaction to policies that conservatives have already, or plan to, introduce. In the case of academia sourced policies they have to build awareness and consensus. Some causes collect critical mass whereas others do not. There is never a shortage causes and there is always a possibility of too many choices preventing a leading cause/political identity. There is a true democratic effect to how the political identity of liberalism is defined. In the case of reaction to conservative policy or politics, there is a network of debunking. A good example is the website BoingBoing where potato-cannon liberals go to find some debunking such as the post that this comment is located in. Other examples are The Daily Show and Colbert, and many many social networks on the web.
As an Amsterdammer, formerly from New Jersey, I have to laugh about the "cesspool of corruption." Seriously, I'd rather raise my kids here than there and made that choice.
It's clear from the commentary that O'Reilly and the wing nuts he represents are still angry about the hippies. The way that those Republican talking heads used the words "free love" like it was a curse makes one realize that they are desperate to prove that Woodstock was a communist plot and they could have won Viet Nam were it not for those damn beatniks.
Meanwhile, Amsterdam continues to descend into a nightmarish hellhole of poffertjes, bicycles, 17th century painting and Indonesian food.
Back in 1993 I participated in an independent documentary made in the Netherlands by American film makers called 'Sex, Drugs and Democracy'
(Red Hat Productions).
It turned out great, and really makes the case for legalization of marijuana and prostitution.
Although made over 15 years ago, the facts raised remain relevant, and the positive outcomes can't have changed much.
(and I did enjoy taking my clothes off for little filler sequence!)
Prurience sells, and the FOX audience eats it up like Fried Anything on a Stick. I think propaganda like this is actually a good thing to keep the mouthbreathing yokels away. I say this for my own city, San Francisco, ie. Sodom and Gomorrah rolled together on a gay bender with illegal immigrants...according to O'Reilly and his ilk.
Good riddance, afaic.
'Rlly s lwys gd fr BB rghtsnss rchrg, cnsdrng hw mch ws wstd dfndng Skp Gts.
@Teller:
Something tells me you're not entirely happy here. Have you considered perusing any of the other fine blogs on the interscape?
Wow, listen to the disdain in their voices when they say, "teaching their children to have safe sex" and "social tolerance." Yes, clearly any problems with Amsterdam stem from that most evil of all philosophies, social tolerance.
I used to work for a company that has half in Holland. A friend who moved there was told by the move coordinator that they should steel their first bike, as they wouldn't feel so bad when their bike was stolen.
Now, on the other hand the safest place to be in Amsterdam was the red light district. Theft might be a problem, but as far as "dangerous" nope, I never felt uncomfortable wandering around in the "bad" parts. Drugs, yes they were around (I don't believe the low usage rate, I was there for Queen's day) But if you could buy it legally, why buy from a criminal?
Thanks, my friend. I appreciate your concern. But my mission on Earth is to tell the truth as I see it - which means two things: it may not actually be the truth and it may chafe the sensitive.
ROTFLMAO
You might get you 'bike' stolen? That proves liberal drugs laws failed in Holland? Dude! Go visit NY for a week. If you think Holland is "more dangerous" than 'tough on crime' NY, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Atlanta, etc, etc, etc, then you're freaken nuts!
Republicans have no sense of reality. They don't believe in evolution. The earth is 6,000 years old. And an invisible being floating in the sky tells them gays can't get married. Facts are NOT their strong suite. Logic and reality will never win you an argument with this crowd. Just nod politely and back away from the crazy people.
Amsterdam was an amazing city when I visited last Winter. Even as an American I was treated with nothing but kindness and hospitality by everyone I met. Plus the city is beautiful (in contrast to our blighted crumbling cities).
Best example:
Two girls in square in front of our hostel with a sign that said "Free Hugs".
I lul'ed a bit when i saw it, but you get the point.
I wish O'reilly would stop talking about Europe. Leave us alone.
WOW! After seeing that, perhaps that show should be renamed the "O RLY? Factor" (Cue in white owl)
Well.. doh.. the US has SOOO many more people then the Netherlands so obviously Drug-Related-Deaths will be higher.
O'Reilly explained his math quite clearly:
http://tpmtv.talkingpointsmemo.com/?id=3060320
We just forget about the 'per million inhabitants', only elitist geeks concern them selfs with such minor details.
Wow. A "mission on Earth" really sounds important. Was it assigned or did you volunteer? If it was assigned, you might be the messiah.
My favorite is Kurt Vonnegut's:
"I tell you we are here on earth to fart around."
"You supply the statistics, I'll supply the drug war."
A lot of Americans unfortunately misinterpret liberty to mean "the freedom to like only the things I like." And whoever said prurience sells was spot on. Since they're prevented from enjoying things they are interested in, they have to vicariously enjoy it through things like this O-Reilly "news" program. Odd, I know. I call things like this and endless reporting about how much more kids these day are enjoying sex "porn for prudes."
I guess at some point you'll just have to come to the conclusion that someone else's perspective is different enough from yours to warrant stating they do not live on the same planet as yours.
So what were dealing with here, basically, is a bleed-through from another dimension.
@#30, PANTOGRAPH:
"White bicycle plan: Initiated by Luud Schimmelpenninck, the white bicycle plan proposed the closing of central Amsterdam to all motorised traffic, including motorbikes, with the intent to improve public transport frequency by more than 40% and to save two millions guilders per year. Taxis were accepted as semi-public transport, but would have to be electrically powered and have a maximum speed of 25 m.p.h. The Provos planned for the municipality to buy 20,000 white bikes per year, which were to be public property and free for everybody to use. After the plans were rejected by the city authorities, the Provos decided to go ahead anyway. They painted 50 bikes white and left them on streets for public use. The police impounded the bikes, as they violated municipal law forbidding citizens to leave bikes without locking them. After the bikes had been returned to the Provos, they equipped them all with combination locks and painted the combinations on the bicycles."
I guess you were born too late.
I agree with Vonnegut wholefartedly.
My initial reaction is that I can't help but feel very insulted by "Americans".
Only to realise it's a biased group of idiots that said this, totally not representative of the entire US population - thank God. And especially not representative of the good people 'round BB.
Still, if I didn't rationalise, who knows what I might think of the USA because of O'Reilly's skewed coverage of the "cesspool", the capital of my homeland and where part of my family's roots lie.
'The way that those Republican talking heads used the words "free love" like it was a curse'
...funny thing is it is the same 'free' that they love to throw around when they talk about 'free markets.' They are economic libertines.
Note:
Posting with your head up your ass makes you an easy target for potato cannons.
I think you're thinking of Rush Limbaugh, but I can see why you'd be confused.
Bill O'Reilly is the one who got accused of sexual harrassment, and is known for the infamous "loofah" tape, among other things.
Teller,
Change your mission on Earth to 'not dragging controversies from one thread to another'.
Ah, Amsterdam. One of civilization's finest collections. I spent a week a few years ago just walking around. No plans, no agenda, just anywhere my legs and tram passes took me.
It is dangerous at night in spots outside of the center, but what modern city isn't? The pot and hash are magnificent, as are the museums and the city scapes. The people are still people, but there are plenty of fine discussions to be had. And they were as helpful and generous towards this fat, middle aged tourist as any place I have been.
It was invigorating to see first-hand the collective attitude of this city. As long as you don't do anything that bothers others, nobody cares what you do. The only social problems I saw (excluding some poverty, urban blight, and other issues common to any urban sprawl) were created by tourists. There are some shady "hard" drug dealers hanging around, but they are easily deterred with a stern "no, thanks". Even the Dutch children were quiet and well-behaved, which was as surprising as the lack of drug issues.
The Dutch may be the most advanced, enlightened people I have seen, and I have been around. It is pitiful so see their politicians screwing up such a forward thinking society.
Oh, and Bill O'Reilly is a pinhead.
Oh Buddy66, I know of the plan, and also of how it failed. The bikes were all "privatized" by less than honest citizens during the '70s.
Many of the bicycle thieves were heroin addicts. Heroin was a huge problem back in the '70s in Amsterdam. Then the much decried coffeeshop system was introduced and the number of junks has been falling ever since. Separation of markets really did destroy the "gateway" effect. Coffeeshop clients didn't feel the need to move on to the hard stuff.
If this isn't chaos, I don't know what is.
One thing I never understood about the bicycle theft problem in Amsterdam is where the profit margin comes in. If theft is half as rampant as it appears to be then the market must be flooded with stolen bikes by now. Does everybody just buy used bikes with the understanding that they were probably stolen?
@24 AVRAM
??? WTF??!!
"On February 14, a Florida Appeals court ruled there is absolutely nothing illegal about lying, concealing or distorting information by a major press organization."
Unbelievable, although I guess that's how Weekly World News operated.
Think of the implications.
If congress brought forward a bill making it illegal to knowingly distort facts in a news report (with exceptions for protecting witnesses, etc.), how could any congressman oppose it and not look crass (assuming the language was sound, and there were no silly riders attached)?
Screw the "Fairness Doctrine"-- fix regular broadcast news before worrying about opinion shows.
Buddy66
In full recognition that anecdotes are not data...
I've spent all of 3 days in Amsterdam, and I'm pretty sure that the one apparent bicycle theft I witnessed there was a bona fide theft (sketchy looking guy with bolt cutters attacking a thick cable lock).
In total, I think I may have witnessed about 3 bicycle thefts in my life and been victim of one, so one of those instances being in my 3 day stay in Amsterdam is suggestive.
I've also spoken to a couple of Dutch people who felt that bike theft was a fairly common problem in the Netherlands. One opinion I heard was that partly it's because so many people ride bikes there that the bike market is large - a large market meaning a lot of opportunity to hide illegal sales. That and bikes are just convenient things to steal generally - people leave them unattended outside, the getaway vehicle is included...
I'd say that the low cannabis usage statisci has quite some merit; fact is, smoking cigarettes is dying off in the Netherlands amongst young people (drinking alcohol is up, however, dunno about other drugs).
And if you don't smoke cigarettes, smoking pot is not really feasable (although I do know of some who smoke only pot)... which explains the dramatic falloff in cannabis use.
The statistics about how many people use pot anywhere are completely meaningless if you take into account how harmless pot smoking is.
Who cares? Why is it illegal?
Antinous: Nolo contendere, my liege.
I only meant to offer a postscript to a contentious thread in which the majority of commmenters were insufferably, knee-jerkily, rash. HOWEVER, I am chastised and, as you've suggested, have re-adjusted my future missions to exclude cross-pollination. I exit bowing.
How much more likely am I to get killed by the police in Amsterdam?
Exactly.
I've been to the Netherlands a few times. It is one of the most relaxing and peaceful places I have ever visited. However, the last time is was in Amsterdam I did run into some trouble. While walking along a side street near the Red Light District I was approached by a guy who asked me to give him some money. When I refused, he became very aggressive and told me "Give my your f***king money or I'll take it from you". I carefully walked away, the guy stood for a moment then walked the other direction. The funny thing is, it was another American tourist that made this half-assed attempt at relieving me of my cash.
fact is, smoking cigarettes is dying off in the Netherlands amongst young people (drinking alcohol is up
MMM, fresh Heineken on tap is there any wonder why drinking is up. Seriously, I didn't even recognize it as Heineken the first time I tried it. Lovely on a hot muggy summer day.
Dragonfrog - that was not "full recognition that anecdotes are not data..." you executed just now.
If the thief was wearing a suit would you distrust all men is suits?
If that were your bike in your city, would you lock it up any better? and what does that say about where you lived, and by extention, who you are for having lived there?
Maybe bicycle thievery is so high in Amsterdam because, with drugs and prostitution legal, it's hard to feel naughty. So they are reduced to stealing bicycles for a thrill.
I've lived in the Netherlands for 10 years now and I've never felt safer. Before that I lived in Northern Ireland and England. Every Friday or Saturday night in the UK were fights, stabbings, glassings, people pissing on cars etc - in the city centre. I would only walk on well lit streets etc. Everyone I knew smoked weed which they bought from dealers who frequently ripped them off or tried to sell them acid, speed, coke or whatever.
In the Netherlands I worked in a bar opposite a coffeeshop. None of my coworkers smoked weed, though most of them had tried a few times when they were 17 or 18. They preferred beer and that was that. The coffeeshops don't push you to take other drugs and don't let you get too messed up.
After hours the streets are equally rowdy but without the violence. It's just the way here - live and let live.
In ten years I've never been burgled (UK three times) or mugged (UK twice) or even felt slightly unsafe in a dark alley. An alley is just a small street, not a den of evil. Usually it has doors in it that lead to houses.
I have had two bikes stolen though. I got one back by myself - saw it outside a student (frat)house and stole it back. They clapped.
Dump 10,000 cheap bikes in the city every few years. They'll catch on eventually. The theft problem goes away.
Why is it that Fox News must have the most beautiful anchorwomen, that are at the same time some of the most ignorant women on TV??
#73: They are trying to appeal to people who value style over substance, feeling over thought.
And remember the Subgenius motto:
"Act like a dumbfuck and they'll treat you like an equal."
I spent three weeks in Amsterdam, in July of 2005.
I don't know if it is like this all of the time, but it was cold and rainy, damn near all of the time. I spent quite a bit of time staying at Camp Zeeburg. http://www.campingzeeburg.nl/
Beautiful city, though. I enjoyed my stay there, as 99.99% of the residents I met with are very nice.
As for the other .01%, we ran into one "bad" guy. The three people I went with like to do X. I do not do X, and did not do anything but smoke weed and drink while I was in Amsterdam. That includes not patronizing the prostitutes.
My friend took me along as backup, to buy some X. I stayed back, in the croud, and watched the exchange, like any good backup would.
The dealer tried to rob my friend, actually trying to reach into my friends pocket to take money.
My friend then proceeded to beat the dealer.
With a large crowd around us (you can't go anywhere in Amsterdam without a large crowd being around, it is sort of like New Amsterdam, also called New York City) and at the edges of the crowd, I casually scanned around the crowd, watching for any friends of the dealer to step in.
No one did. No one looked like they were going to do anything. This idiot dealer actually had NO backup. I think this says a lot for the difference between Amsterdam and NYC.
Finally, my friend decided to go, and we left quickly.
Trust me, if my friend had a hard time with the dealer, I would have dealt with the dealer, without any warning.
Overall, Amsterdam is sooo beautiful, and the people are soooooo nice. I hope to go there another day, or few weeks, or even maybe for life.
Heh, I hope I do not get disembowled for being a bold ass =)
MDH
Dragonfrog - that was not "full recognition that anecdotes are not data..." you executed just now.
If the thief was wearing a suit would you distrust all men is suits?
If that were your bike in your city, would you lock it up any better? and what does that say about where you lived, and by extention, who you are for having lived there?
Whut? No, really - I don't get what you're saying.
I have a feeling, backed by my own experience, that most bike thieves don't wear suits. If I saw a guy in a suit hacking away at a bike lock with bolt cutters I would conclude he was stealing the bike, and I'd be surprised that he was doing it in a suit.
In my city, I use a U-lock for my nice bike; I used to use a U-lock for the frame plus a cable lock for the wheels until the cable lock got cut. The cable-cutting incident is the one bike theft I mentioned. Not 20 feet from the main police station, I locked my Winter rust bucket with just the cable lock, and some guy cut it then came back for the bike next to mine. Got to recognize the guy for having guts...
What does that say about me? I dunno - what does it say about you that you're looking for "what it says about me" how I lock up my bike?
Incidentally - I already distrust all men in sharp black business suits. What's that say about me? What does your answer to that question say about you ?
If you ever find yourself in this most wonderful city, do partake in some Dutch gin. If memory serves its spelled Jenever (pronounced yen-eeever) and tastes SO delicious. I prefer 'old' jenever, served neat in a shot glass. Its smooth and has a nice mouthfeel, with a mellow gin taste. One of those, then a fresh Heineken afterwards. Fantastic.
Definitely check out the falafel place just north of Leidseplein; I ate there four days in a row one trip.
Tot Zeins, Amsterdam!
Chelvis wrote...
"and for the last 10 years I've lived in New York City - variously in Bed-Stuy, Crown Heights, Flatbush, Bushwick, Williamsburgh, Sunnyside, Long Island City, Astoria, UWS and Hell's Kitchen..."
The difference between AMsterdam and Bed Stuy or Crown Heights is on par witht the difference between heaven and hell, crime-wise.
In 1987 I taught HS at Prospect Heights High School. One of my students (Edwina Gooding) was murdered by her boyfriend and her body thrown onto the tracks between stations. Another of my students was "out sick" for a couple of weeks because "some boys cut him". I saw gang fights and borrowed a switchblade once from one of my better students.
Amsterdam, in contrast, is one of the safer and more civilized places I have ever been to. I had the odd feeling that my very presence there as an American was making it less safe.
"I hope I do not get disembowled for being a bold ass =)"
Not what boingers do. Here it's like Amsterdam.
Is this sudden attack on pot a response to the crys for decriminalization spurred on by the current economic conditions where government no longer has the luxury of prosecuting and jailing so many drug users?
It was strange to read the time article from #23, after I just read the following unbalanced panic piece about scary Florida super-pot:
http://www.cnn.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1913401,00.html
I'm pretty sure international law allows for the prosecution of things like Blotchy O'Lielly and Drugs Windbag. It might please America to allow them to play, but the damage they do overseas is real, measurable and subject to retaliation. Imagine if North Korea's little Kimmie fell into Interpol hands. If the Court at the Hague for him, why not for these vandal scumbags? Further, if America's vice-president is allowed a personal assassination squad, why shouldn't other nations be able to punish their slanderers?
jesus, barelyfitz, i just read that time article...what a load of catshit! superpot my pimply ass! first off: human beings can only process so much thc or any cannabinoid. the rest is expelled harmlessly so even if they were growing 100% thc in their herb, you can only get so much effect from it. second: do they think we are so effin stoned that we don't remember the thai stick, or the gainesville green, or the maui wowie, or the myriad other varieties that have been available for as long as i can remember. i had some lambsbread from jah-maica back in 1979 that i still wish i could get a couple ozers of. mmmmm, so tasty with a speedy-sativaish buzz. but i digress, time: blow it out yer unfact-checked sphincters, you propagandist fucks!
I'm sure Bill's focus on other countries has nothing to do with the C Street scandal going on right now.
@32
I really don't have any answers at the moment as it all seems quite hopeless. We all like to think that there is or might be a solution, but it may be just as likely that there isn't one, and our already mean society will become meaner and meaner as time goes by.
What I see as basic common sense seems, even to the liberal mind, to be highly controversial. For example, I don't think that the state has a sufficient warrant to tell people what they can and can't do with their own bodies. If you want to smoke pot, or take opiates, you should be allowed to. Making these things illegal hasn't worked.
I also don't like the fact that the U.S. has created what can only be described as a vast criminal-industrial complex. People go to jail and prison for long periods for smoking pot, crack, whatever. And it's not just that they go to jail. Their lives are severely interrupted as they are required to pay for and attend classes for months. They also suffer the stigma of then being a criminal for the rest of their lives. This makes getting employment difficult, as I can attest. It makes mobility out of the underclass more difficult, and this is probably the point. In past, once your debt to society was paid, it was paid. But no longer.
Do I think that this issue receives the attention it deserves? Not in the least despite the fact that the underclass is rapidly expanding. It doesn't seem to me like the typical liberal cares.
What the typical liberal cares about is "the environment" gay marriage, whatever.
I'm not saying these issues are unimportant. What I'm saying is that having a gulag is the modern day equivalent of slavery (in fact their are many paralells) and it is an issue that should be given top priority. Unfortunately, the poor -- that is, those who are overwhelmingly the victims of our societies drug laws, have little advocacy even among liberals. This is why I excoriate liberals who seem to be asleep at the wheel.
It's fun to read all the good things you lot experienced in Amsterdam. I am from the Netherlands and we are fairly nice, i would like to believe.
It does surprise me what Americans call news, like this Bill O'Reilly guy who (to me) is from the previous president era. (That guy was also a bit against the Dutch People with "The Hague Invasion Act". We now do have one of the best resolution google maps any city has in the world. Which is kinda nice! )
Still this is not news, this is like celebrity gossip, but trashing other countries instead of people. News is something like the "Daily Show w J. Stewart" bit goofy but it has knowledge in there.
btw @80
It kinda feels like that here! :))
There seems to be a correlation between a lot of bike thefts and the presence of a university in european cities, just sayin'. And a lot of the coffee-shops being closed are in border cities due to the flood of belgians, french and germans coming in, some of the criminal variety.
dragonfrog - I'm saying that you did use anecdotal data to back up your gut 'feeling', which is what you specifically said you werent; doing.
if your bike got stolen there AND here... then why - with your ONLY evidence being that your bike was stolen in Amsterdam - would you feel any worse about that place than where you live?
You might have a point to make by offering the anecdotal data point, but your argument following that anecdote fails to make that point - like, at all, dude.
Perhaps that blond woman is related to former U.S. Drug Czar Barry McCaffrey, who lied his way through Europe with comments so boorish that some Dutch government leaders considered not permitting him to enter the Holland.
To be fair... the City of Amsterdam is indeed closing some of its coffeeshops, largely due to the influence and involvement of criminal gangs: The connection between Amsterdam’s coffeeshops and organized crime.
Yet the situation here (I live in Amsterdam) is nothing like the O'Reilly report describes. He and that blond woman must be smoking something very strong indeed to come up with that kind of misinformation.
There mostly is a strong correlation between bike theft and the number of bikes on the street.
@22:
"That said, there is something entertaining, and even admirable, I think, about the man. He stands by his convictions (what could be more admirable than that?), and he is passionate."
I believe, as some of our framers actually did, though I don't reference that in a "drape-thyself-in-the-flag" sort of way, that it is not standing by ones own convictions but a willingness to adapt and evolve them that makes a person truly admirable.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1913401,00.html?cnn=yes
Am I the only one who thinks that Amsterdam IS a cesspool?
The entire area around Centraal is just a writeoff. And as much as I hate to admit it, the problem is the coffeeshops and the Red Light Discrict and the obnoxious tourists from Britain and Canada and America and everywhere else that swarm all over them.
Bicycles want to be free.
They hate their locks and chains.
Pretty blonde.
Bicycles.
Legalized pot.
Amsterdam.
Bashing O'Reilly.
Wow, this piece has everything going for it.
Thank you, thank you...
"if you don't smoke cigarettes, smoking pot is not really feasable" -Anonymous
...Whaaat?
Don't know where you live and are seeing that, but around here- while there is an overlap between the sets of cigarette smokers and pot smokers the overall correlation is negative.
"smoking something very strong indeed to come up with that kind of misinformation."
People in the US don't smoke. They pop prescription pills like M&M's.
@42 - I wholeheartedly agree. It's fun to point and be annoyed and even try to reason, but really, in the end, you just have to let them be stupid and crazy. They'll get it out of their system eventually.
I just hope it doesn't take another two thousand years!
Lantern @5: True! We were in Amsterdam for ten days this spring, but we didn't pay much attention to the Red Light district. We stayed in Oostzaan, rode bicycles through t'Twiske, and bicycled or took mass transit into the central city. Amsterdam is my husband's favorite European city so far: safe, tidy, compressed, walkable, has interesting stuff around every corner, the beer is good, and it's bicycle heaven. Also, people there seem to understand that liberty and order are a natural combination. It's great being in a country where civic life is a cooperative enterprise.
Of course Amsterdam has a high per-capita rate of bicycle theft; everyone's a bicyclist. There are bicycles everywhere. Even the people who are driving are bicyclists who happen to be taking a car this trip.
Crowded tourist districts are sleazy no matter where you go. I did observe a few people misbehaving, but almost none of them were speaking Dutch.
Chelvis @31, I've lived in NYC for nearly half my life. You're going to love Amsterdam. Make sure you check out the intercity trains.
Boba Fett Diop @34:
And Lauren O @39:What you have to understand is that when Republicans snarl about "free love", they don't mean "free" as in "untrammeled". Year in, year out, they make it clear that they think chastity and fidelity are for the little guys. When they say "free love", they mean the kind you don't charge for. It wrecks everything.The whole point of low wages and no security for most people, and money and privilege for a few, is that the few get all the cool toys and get laid more often. Low wages and menial jobs for women, and no recourse in case of accidental pregnancy, gives them a lot more incentive to marry, and to compete to marry well-to-do men. In fact, just about all the "traditional" social patterns whose passing the right bemoans functioned to give those guys an edge in business, keep wages low and workers scared, and pressure women into competing to sell themselves to men.
Free love completely upends that system. It means men can get laid just because they appeal to their partners. Women can have sex just because they want to, without feeling obliged to enforce a graduated scale of commitment and long-term financial responsibility. Relations between men and women become somewhat less fraught because sex isn't seen so much as an artificially scarce commodity which women are willfully withholding from the market, and which men are wrongly trying to get for free. Access to birth control and abortion means an unmarried women isn't constantly in danger of being caught short without someone to support her and her child, and a woman with a career isn't constantly threatened with having her career derailed by an unwanted pregnancy. It also means fewer men wind up being trapped in some godawful exploitive job because they unexpectedly have a wife and kid to support.
I'm serious. Next time there's a national election, listen to the on-the-street reporting from around the convention center. What you always hear is that hookers turn up in shoals for Republican conventions, but they're thin on the ground when the Democrats are convening. Republicans aren't the party of family values; they're the party of paying for sex.
Teller @41, thank you for that line. I have incorporated it into a wiki I've been compiling.
Sebas van den Brink @52, I apologize. Our laws keep us from shutting him up. I don't think he knows anything about your country. What he knows is that his stupid viewers equate "Amsterdam" with "sex and drugs," so he fakes up scandalous news stories about it. His very stupid viewers are the only people who believe what he says. The good part is, this way, you don't have to meet them.
Spiralbrain @73:
I tend to think of that as a self-answering question. It explains Sarah Palin, too.Yes, as mentioned elsewhere, crime has fallen so hugely in Holland that they are now faced with either closing prisons or importing prisoners from Belgium. All this largely through decriminalizing a lot of drug use. Studies have shown time and time again that re-legalizing drug use and just using a FRACTION of the sums that were used on attempting to control dealing and importing on education and aiding addicts is incredibly successful. And of course there is the sideline benefit of hugely reducing organised crime! But don't forget, most prisons in the US are hugely profitable privately run corporations. Perhaps it is time that ALL politicians should be forced to disclose their investments. It is hardly right that a decision maker who has a vested interest in keeping prisons full should decide who does and who doesn't go to jail!!!
Oh, sure, they've got their legal pot and hookers, which means they've got their thriving tourism and personal freedom and empty prisons and all that jazz. Good for the Dutch.
But they're missing out on all the fun of doing something illicit! That's the whole point of pot, at least. How the hell do their high school age kids know who's cool if anyone can smoke up?! What do they make their coming-of-age movies about if teenage boys can easily lose their virginities for the price of a few days' work at the Bruges Mickey D's?
I go to Amsterdam every year for a trade show and find it to be one of the nicest, safest and most interesting places I have the privilege to visit. I did try the 'cafes' once, just for fun, but mostly enjoy the great food and bars. Perhaps Bill O should go get free bicycle bell himself!
Whenever I read of some fascist mouthpiece spewing propaganda, I always wonder who's paying him(her) and just how much.
The most profound objection to the Bill O'Reillys, Oral Robertses, Rush Limbaughs, Ann Coulters, Pat Robertsons, and their ilk is that are complete hypocrites who say what they say only because it brings them money and power.
What they actually believe is anybody's guess.
We can exempt Sarah Palin from this criticism because she's proven herself to be a dimwit.
Who the hell were those two bints? I have worked in politics for 15 years and I have never heard of them. I guess they live in Newt Gingrich's basement of something...
I have been to Amsterdam numerous times and found the city to be charming in some areas and disgusting in others. Sex and drug tourists seemed to be everywhere at certain times of day and although we did not feel unsafe I definitely wanted to get our baby back to the hotel ASAP. If they do away with the red light district and the smoke shops I will go back to complete the tour of the city I started 5 years ago... hopefully without the stoned, vomit covered beggars this time.
South Norway
@ Teresa Nielsen Hayden #100:
Holy cow, that's the best analysis I've ever seen on conservatives and "free love".
Seriously, I'd never thought of it quite that way before, and I'm blown away. It made the comments on this thread worth reading.
I'd love to see these thoughts extended into an article with wider distribution. ;)
I'm from Holland and these stats are skewed. Just like New York is not America, Amsterdam is not Holland. Compare city numbers to city numbers. My sister moved out of Amsterdam because it is so bad. Show pictures of all the muslims that now run the city. Show the cafes, show the red light district. I did enjoy the bakfiets and other images, but they are a dream world -- were they shot for a commercial. The last time I was in Amsterdam, it was dirty and about half the people were foreigners. I grew up outside Amsterdam and there people don't smoke pot, but I know lots of Americans who went to Amsterdam for the gay lifestyle and to smoke pot.
I live in the US and grew up in the Netherlands. I don't know anyone personally in the US that was ever murdered. I do know someone -- a Dutch citizen -- personally in A'dam that was killed in Vondel Park with a knife. Ofcourse, I live in the Midwest of America, where it is relatively safe: People don't smoke; don't carry guns; don't do drugs; Like their beer. Much like the small town I lived in Holland, except for the smoking part. People in Holland smoke like chimneys. Went on a girl trip with 14 girls last spring -- half of which were Dutch. All the Dutch women smoked. I was among the only four who didn't -- all were American.
Great city, nice people. Much more there than brothels and coffee shops.
I've been there many times, will go back many times, and wouldn't mind living there.
The whole O'Reilly thing is ludicrous. Just like him. Why do we continue to take Radio and TV personalities seriously? They're showmen...performing on the airwaves instead of vaudeville stages.
Hmmm. All this has me thinking I want to visit Amsterdam again. I think I will.
Fox News, O'Reilly especially, never let a fact get in the way of their 'news stories'
Its not fair they were counting with the metric system, skewing the results. Clearly drugs are bad, Fox News said so!
It is not really accurate to compare one city to a whole country.
As an American who has lived and worked in the Netherlands, I can vouch that the overall level of crime is much lower in what is, as a matter of fact, the most densely populated country in Europe. I highly recommend that people from all countries travel more and see what the rest of the world is like. The more you do, the more you will come to realize that each and every culture has distinct pros and cons, many of which are subtle and can only be experienced first hand. The more you learn about how the rest of the world lives, the more you will come to appreciate those things in the U.S. that work well, and also those things that do not. For all the fear mongering of Bill O’Reilly (and the ONDCP, etc.), it should be noticed that the liberal drug policies in the Netherlands have not caused the pillars of democracy to come crashing down. Quite the contrary : the Netherlands is a peaceful and safe country with a well established social welfare system and is a particularly lucrative destination country for immigrants.
Free drugs? Where?
I'm a female expat currently living in Amsterdam, I find walking the streets of the Red Light District pretty mild and safe, which I can't say for walking the streets in other cities where prostitution is located and not legalised.
I have travelled quite a lot and Amsterdam to me ranks as the most fantastic city I have ever been to, people are friendly and laid back, it is exceptionally beautiful, and there is a common sense approach that actually works. Best of all, although it's densely populated the city hasn't lost it's small town feel which makes socialising and being a part of the community here so easy and so rewarding.
Bill O'Reilly is an idiot, but it's hard to argue or reason with the lunatic fringe, and unfortunately for us they will always have an audience... disturbingly larger than one living in reality would hope.