IKEA sends breastfeeder to the toilets
So much for the much-vaunted Swedish progressivism: the IKEA store in Redhook, New York, sent Sarah Miller to the toilets to breastfeed her baby, then, when she gave up on waiting for the toilets to be free and tried to leave the store, the same security guards who'd banished her to the shitter held her up again to check her receipts.
On Wednesday I was in Ikea Redhook in the middle of breastfeeding, fully covered, when I was told I had to stop doing "that" and go to the nearby family bathroom. The Ikea employee and security guards were extremely rude to us. I was hustled off to the bathroom and then had to wait because someone else was using it. I was humiliated, my daughter was upset from being interrupted in the middle of her feed. When eventually I gave up and headed for the car to finish feeding, the security guards who had seen the entire event insisted on checking my receipts. I'm putting together a formal complaint to IKEA. I was wondering if this has happened to anyone else?IKEA Redhook breastfeeding incident (via Consumerist)
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I am a member of Citizens Against Breastfeeding, as well as SINA, and proud of it.
I can't speak for other countries, but at least here in Norway, IKEAs main demographic group is young families. And I believe they have taken the consequences of that; most IKEAs I have been to have fairly good accommodations for parents/children.
And that whole "check the receipts at the exit" business...must be a result of a paranoid society (or a society of thieves). I've never had to show my receipt in ANY store, and in IKEA I use the self-serve register, and never even see a cashier.
Go figure.
I have never understood the extremely common American prudishness about breastfeeding. Where i'm from, woman just won't put their tits away, they're so busy whipping them out for a snack for Jr. No-one pays any attention, because we're not screwed-up, ignorant, immature, sexless wonders like the 99% of Americans who either tssk tssk disapproviingly or stare slack-jawed at the merest hint of the human form. What a messed-up sexuality America has - porn is bleedin' EVERYWHERE, but a woman can't do Item #2 on the Most Natural Things Of All Time.
This country is developmentally like a 12 year old boy.
This JUST happened here at the local Wally World:
Victoria, BC, Canada
Nursing mom told 'You can't be here' in Langford Wal-Mart
http://www.timescolonist.com/life/Nursing+told+here+Langford+Mart/1804581/story.html
Some Americans are too fond of paranoia and intolerance, let alone bodily functions. Companies should explain their policies to all the staff in writing, especially the guards.
The behavior of New York resident security guards has nothing at all to do with the presence or absence of "Swedish progressivism" in an international business organization. One twat at the lowest rung you can inhabit within a company really, truly does not reflect upon the organization in entirety.
Credit where credit is due, and blame only where blame is due.
also, is the redhook IKEA, you cant ask that much from BRK
This has nothing to do with Ikea and everything to do with a screwed up prudish American society. In France in Ikea the restaurant is full of breast-feeding women and the same in the UK. The US needs laws that enshrine the right of a woman to breast feed her child wherever she likes. It is frankly insane that this, the most natural of actions, should be banned or controlled at all.
To also breake a lance for IKEA:
It's more of an issue that the store is in the US than that's IKEA. In Germany you can breastfeed your child right in the restaurant (of course beeing discreet in a avarage way).
Of course I have no idea what happens if a woman would fully pop out her boobies right in the queue in front of the cashiers.. My guess: The hardest aktion would be, that you are polietely asked the be a bit more discreet towards the other customers.
Maybe my wife and me should test it... ;-)
In a sense, you could say that in the U.S. there is this ingrained sense within people that they are entitled to the right to tell their peers what to do, if they feel what is being done currently isn't "right". "not right" can merely be a matter of being mildly abrasive to personal opinions.
"I don't like what you're doing. I am going to force you to stop."
It's a sickly and dangerous social norm to have in a democracy but it has been commonplace here for a very, very long time.
If that had happened when my wife was still breast-feeding, we would have had a dozen women with babies at that store in a couple of hours.
My wife was a militant breast-feeder, she would have sat there until they called the cops.
Headline: Police Arrest Breast-Feeding Mother in Ikea Store.
News at eleven: Dozens of Breast-feeding Mothers Descend On Local Ikea Store
This seems more like local attitudes, but IKEA now needs to move quickly to state that this is not company policy and instruct the managers of their other stores about how letting a PR mishap like this happen again will get them in trouble.
The worst aspect of the Bush years, though, has been an explosion of tiny dictators: clerks and security guards bullying anyone who doesn't give them the deference they feel they deserve. Sure, over here in Germany everyone can be rudely blunt (they think it's just being honest), but back home in the States it's now jarring to me because we Americans still have the saccharine politeness as well.
when this kind of filth happens there should be a public campaign to expose the deviates and see to it they are criminally prosecuted and put on a sex offenders registry. What could be more sickening then trying to sexualize a mother feeding her baby?
Well, I happened to visit a local (Rome, Italy) IKEA not more than 3 days ago and I saw a woman breastfeeding her baby without problems. Cannnot say about other cities or countries.
What puzzled me, though, was seeing something attached to a guard belt that resembled a taser. That would be the first time I see one owned by an IKEA guard.
I agree with those saying that this is a US problem rather than a specifically IKEA problem.
As anyone knows who has visited an IKEA store here in Norway IKEA has no problem allowing women to breastfeed their babies.
Just visit IKEA Slependen (just outside Oslo) on a Saturday and go to the restaurant. You will see loads of young families and women with babies. A lot of them will feed the babies and unless you are paying attention you probably won't even notice. After all it isn't as though they strip to the waist to do it, the most you are likely to see is rather less skin than most women reveal anyway.
What you will also see is that no one is paying the breastfeeding mothers any attention at all.
I'm glad we brought up our children in Norway and didn't have to put up with this crap (except when visiting our home country the UK).
That doesn't sound like Ikea. The Ikea here in Seattle has a nice, quiet baby care room next to the restaurant with changing tables and comfy chairs for moms to nurse their babies.
They want families with babies to shop there! Even if a mother did want to breastfeed out in the restaurant area, I have a hard time believing that anyone would hassle them about it.
I wonder what Ingvar Kamprad thinks about this?
As a swede, I'm going to have to say that this is definetely an American problem. While I'm not going to jump on the Lady-Liberty-Is-A-Prude bandwagon ( can a country that produces that much porn and sex-related products really be called prudish?), I feel that this aversion to the idea of breastfeeding is just completely alien.
How can it be considered offensive? its not sexual, its not even particularly private. Its a necessary biological function, and if you look closer at it, its the act of nourishing the next generation. Hell, from a biological point of view, its downright awesome.
Does anyone know where this aversion came from?
Last time I was in an Ikea I noticed a section in the restaurant with comfortable chairs which had high arm rests and a sign saying this was for breast feeding mothers.
Takuan hit the nail on the head! As the proverb goes, "To the wicked man, everything is wicked." Since there is nothing inherently bad about nursing a baby, anyone who sees it as shameful or inappropriate is screwed up in the head. They may protest this label, but as yet none of these people has been able to provide a valid counter-argument to support their anti-nursing stance.
I live in New York state, and I remember about 15 years ago, a mother sued a local mall for stopping her from feeding her infant in the food court. If I'm not mistaken, the mall lost the case. I suspect that the Ikea manager ignored the law.
In NY, I see women breastfeeding their babies in public every so often. From what I've seen, no one complains, or if they do, the mother isn't told to stop by the businesses. Hopefully, this was an atypical situation.
It is actually illegal to stop a woman breastfeeding in public in the US, also. Just an unbelievable amount of tiny dictators in retail have no clue about the law.
And as for "nice comfy room with chairs and such for breastfeeding." That IS the family toilet area. There's a room, and then built into it, through a door is the toilet. This woman chose not to use that area. I suspect that the ignorant manager believed that, because there is that room, that is the only place you can do it. So, they told the woman to go there.
I've worked in retail. It is, really and truly, simply chock full of people who are completely ignorant of the law. Not a lot of people who are intelligent WANT to work in retail with how poorly they are paid and how little respect they get. Therefore this is what happens.
I have to say that this story makes no sense to me - all of the Ikeas I have been to (including the one here in Houston many, many times) have a shielded seating area in the dining room for mothers to breastfeed.
I live in Sweden and we have never seen anyone beeing treated like that. Here it is not something to be ashamed of. Some prefer to breastfeed "under a blanket" but others do it in public.. anyone who doesn´t approve can just turn their head.
no biggie - it´s just food :) //Anna
Don't blame ikea for having to hire new yorkers as security guards.
I was in the Ikea in College Park, Maryland a few months ago and watched for around 45 minutes as the Wackenhut security guards only stopped African Americans to check their receipts.
The Redhook Ikea is particularly odd. I was told, in a recent attempt to return merchandise, that they do not accept returns from other states because of the difference in taxes. When I pointed out that the Long Island Ikea where I had originally bought it was not in a different state she begrudgingly called a manager who told me that they, unlike other stores, try to discourage returns.
I am appalled that anyone would think that a room in which people shit is an appropriate place to feed a baby with a developing immune system.
Ikea should reprimand this guy and issue an apology.
Anyone offended by breastfeeding really needs to take a long hard look at themselves
@FoetusNail #9
>If that had happened when my wife was still
>breast-feeding, we would have had a dozen women
>with babies at that store in a couple of hours.
That's exactly what Jessica Mills suggests in "My Mother Wears Combat Boots" (Cory reviewed and liked it, so I bought the book and liked it too).
Personally I find going to Ikea amongst the most unpleasant experiences possible. No staff or rude off-hand staff. I guess they're toey because they have to be off at their customer service seminars....
Boing boing please help inform your readers that most states protect breastfeeding mothers. Here is a link that gives a rundown on the laws:
http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/BreastfeedingLaws/tabid/14389/Default.aspx
New York is in the "second tier" which exempts a breastfeeding mother from the public indecency laws. Breastfeeding advocacy organizations have often responded to this type of behavior on the part of a business or retailer by staging a "nurse in" on the store property. I would love to see this happen at the Redhook Ikea.
I want to say that I breastfed my son for four years in the heart of the midwest and never had a single negative comment--and that includes in restaurants, stores, wherever I was at the time of need. This incident does not reflect on the culture so much as it reflects on one dirty minded individual.
Ikea in the UK have special breastfeeding areas in the restaurant.
I have a feeling this is not the store policy, but one employees sensitivities getting in the way of their better judgement.
I am also a breast-feeding Mom, and find this sad that someone in today's society could not be open and accepting to one of the most natural acts in the world!
I hope she kicks some butt, and gets an apology.
@18:
"Anyone offended by breastfeeding really needs to take a long hard look"
There fixed that for you.
@polychrome
Breast feeding laws actually vary by state, although this site confirms that in NYS, women are allowed to breastfeed in any public OR private location, and breastfeeding is exempt from indecent exposure laws.
http://www.ncsl.org/IssuesResearch/Health/BreastfeedingLaws/tabid/14389/Default.aspx
@#7 As already noted most of the US already has this law. In NYC in specific the law is so broad that it allows any Woman to go topless virtually anywhere, regardless of whether they're breast feeding. And that's to say nothing of the legal precedent from decades of law suits.
As for everyone shitting on the US, 99% of the time no one cares if a breast feeding mother whips it out in public. The actions of a few power tripping security guards and prudish church ladies aren't representative.
N.Y. Civil Rights Law § 79-e (1994) permits a mother to breastfeed her child in any public or private location. (SB 3999)
The security guard broke the law. This is a civil rights offence.
My wife breastfed our spawn in public all the time. I almost think she would have liked for someone to have a problem with it, just so she could go batshit ninja insane on them. Never even got a dirty look though, and this is in the South. Maybe she just gave off a "don't even think about it" vibe?
"So much for the much-vaunted Swedish progressivism"
Why Blame the poor Swedes when the store is in Redhook NY with presumably american employees and managers. It kinda makes the article pointless if you actually think about it.. lots of breastfeeders get the shaft at lots of american stores.
The thing is, this isn't really a matter of opinion. It's not up to the store to decide whether they want to allow breastfeeding or not. A mother's right to breastfeed wherever she damn well pleases is protected by law - certainly by New York law, and I'm pretty sure by national law as well.
Virginia has a law to protect women at the Woodbridge IKEA and elsewhere. I'm surprised NY does not.
Breastfeeding is taboo, and yet it's ok for our kids to watch all manner of murders on TV.
Wardrobe malfunction? FINES! JAIL TIME! FORBIDDEN!
Disemboweling? Beheading? no problem.
Sometimes I wish there was a better place to move to.
I live in Texas and I have breastfed my children in IKEA with no problems. I would just pick a Poang and settle in...never had any negative feedback. I agree that the mother in question should get together a group of other moms (and supportive dads) and help to *educate* the store in question about the error of their ways. But it is equally important to send the store affirming messages when they apologize and change their policy/attitude.
I've been to the Red Hook Ikea (in passing they offer an amazing FREE water taxi service from the Pier on Wall Street to Ikea and from Ikea back to Wall Street) quite a few times. Relative to checking receipts, that appears to be a fairly new policy. I'm guessing that it didn't arise out of a vacuum but probably in response to theft issues.
Well, New York does have a law, even better that Virginia's, and the IKEA store had no authority to command she breastfeed in the bathrooms.
N.Y. Civil Rights Law § 79-e (1994) permits a mother to breastfeed her child in any public or private location. (SB 3999)
Most IKEAs in the US that I've been to have a babycare room that is not attached to restrooms. Is this not the case in the Red Hook store?
Well, where was she doing it? Was she in one of the bedroom displays? Was she on a chair display someone might have wanted to purchase? Was she hunkered down in the middle of an aisle? I am an American and have no problem with public breastfeeding; however, there are some details missing from this story, enough that I cannot condemn either party.
Also, the receipt-checking thing is just something that Red Hook Ikea does. Same with the Brooklyn Lowe's in Park Slope. Same with the Home Depot. I wouldn't blame the Swedish. It is a failure of Brooklyn big-box stores that are heavily trafficked. If the bosses tell the security guards to check customer's receipts on the way out, the security guards are left to do it. In my experience they don't even read the receipts, just swipe them with a highlighter.
Whether Ikea has a babycare room or not, mothers should not be obliged to go there to breastfeed their kids.
I'm familiar with that particular store, and I find this incident kind of surprising. In general it's a clean and friendly store.
The baby room I suspect they sent her to is a family changing room, which is a largish room with bathroom facilities as well, which are not in a stall. It's nicer than your usual toilet, but still.
I'm surprised they managed to pick her out of the crowd at all, usually it's very busy. I suspect it's the work of the guards, who may even be a private firm contracted to work there, rather than Ikea policy in general. What makes it even more surprising is that this store is in close proximity to Park Slope, Brooklyn, where I live, which is almost offensive in its baby-centricness.
I would hardly call it an american thing, in britain and ireland, few people want to see a woman's trubid breasts hanging out, especially if a child is attached to one. Whilst I would agree it's a perfectly natural thing to do, so is taking a dump or having sex, both things I'd request were done in private.
She should file a suit - because that is the appropriate remedy for these sorts of things.
For the person trying to absolve Ikea corporate - they empowered the security guard and they have to take responsibility for educating him on the law and his scope of authority.
well then pimp, might I suggest a burka for you? With no holes?
@26:
Babies want to be fed with no regard to time & place. Asking mothers to "go away" to feed a baby is like saying "I really wish you'd go to the restroom when you need to sneeze."
Timely and somewhat related to American attitudes towards breastfeeding.
We watched most of the season finale of "16 and Pregnant" last night on MTV where they collected all of the featured moms and had a discussion while also recapping the season. The subject of breastfeeding came up and I think it got an incredibly one-sided treatment. NONE of the teenage mothers continued with breastfeeding for more than a week or two. Dr. Drew reiterated with the moms that it's not an easy thing to do. This is true, but they failed to point out all of the benefits and why it's worth it to brave through the difficulties of the first few weeks.
Boo to MTV and Dr. Drew at failing to give a balanced view on breastfeeding.
I'm sure the formula companies are happy though. We just had our third child and were dismayed to find the "breastfeeding kit" offered from the doctor's office included a pamphlet on breastfeeding and a rather large formula sample. What do they give the moms who aren't going to breastfeed? A vat?
"It is actually illegal to stop a woman breastfeeding in public in the US, also. Just an unbelievable amount of tiny dictators in retail have no clue about the law."
I didn't know that actually, but was going to point out that it is most definitely the case in Canada. The incident in BC could very easily have led to a rather large lawsuit, as number in Ontario have. Yay for Federal criminal law.
@Mindpimp: "[F]ewpeople want to see a woman's trubid breasts hanging out, especially if a child is attached to one."
*Especially* if a child is attached to one? Could you clarify?
Since I'm an unmarried guy and therefore don't have direct involvement in the whole breastfeeding controversy, and since "where you sit is where you stand", I'm more P.O.ed by the insult added to the injury of checking her receipts on the way out. This whole practice has always seemed very dodgy to me. Yet I've never heard a definitive statement as to the legal basis for it, or the consequences of militantly refusing.
I wonder if anyone's ever been detained, then won a false imprisonment lawsuit? I'd have to assume it varies state by state.
ecobore @7 The US needs laws that enshrine the right of a woman to breast feed her child wherever she likes.
Actually, most states do have laws specifically allowing women to breastfeed anywhere they are legally allowed to be. It's just that there are a lot of ill-informed idiots out there.
From LLL's page about New York's breastfeeding legislation:
Moms, know your rights!
Bunch of rednecks up there in Red Hook, whaddya' expect? Still a goodly number of farmers and 4H'ers, so you'd think they'd be in tune with natural functions, but people are funny, huh?
Maybe if they prosecuted the babies, as the ones who cause the demand, this illicit activity would 'dry up'? Take a page from the drug war strategy, I say!
@ Mindpimp (!) 'trubid' ?
I'm aligned pretty strongly with Boingers on most things, but I have to say that I disagree with some of the comments made here. First, turning the inconsiderateness and stupidity of one (or a few) individuals into an indictment of U.S. culture and people is patently ridiculous. Every society, no matter how progressive, has its nuts and jerks. The people in the IKEA store were clearly messing with this woman in every way they could, and jerks are jerks no matter what language they speak.
Second, the knee-jerk "breastfeeding is great so GTFO," reaction is also silly. As Mindpimp pointed out, most societies demand that the vast majority of bodily functions be performed in private. The woman in the story says she was fully covered, which seems reasonable to me, but are we unable entertain a discussion as to when breastfeeding is or isn't appropriate?
Mr. Protocol: The legality is you if you don't show your receipt they cannot detain you, but they can tell you that you are no longer welcome there, and if you come back to the store, you could get charged with trespassing.
I will show my receipt if there's no line to do so, or if (like at CostCo) I've pre-agreed to do so. Fry's Electronics is notorious for making people queue up for a receipt inspection. If there's a line, I just skip it. They sometimes ask me to get in line, and I either ignore them, or politely tell them "no, thanks". I haven't had a problem yet with this policy.
If retail employees detain you, they better have you bang on for a shoplifting (or other criminal) charge, or they are in deep doo-doo.
Mindpimp, if you equate breastfeeding with having sex and taking a dump you are seriously blocked. Also, turbid does not exist in my dictionary. Definition please?
mindpimp @26 I would hardly call it an american thing, in britain and ireland, few people want to see a woman's trubid breasts hanging out, especially if a child is attached to one.
Then don't look.
Whilst I would agree it's a perfectly natural thing to do, so is taking a dump or having sex, both things I'd request were done in private.
Breastfeeding is eating, not excretion, not sex. I realize it can sometimes be unpleasant to watch other people eat, but we usually don't ask them to go eat in the bathroom.
Bathrooms are really germy places. About the last place you'd want to feed a child. (Don't poop where you eat? Hello?)
http://www.nowpublic.com/health/breastfeeders-protest-vancouver-h-m
calling all breastfeeding moms !!!
protest en masse, claim your space in the world.
Too bad there isn't a breastmilk industry that could stand-up and fight for these poor poor women.
Well luckly there is a baby formula industry that can protect the rights of formula fed babies.
---
The receipt issue is simple. The receipt is your private property and they might as well be asking you for any document they choose as a requirement to leave the store. Walking out while saying no thanks is the simpliest solution.
However, to incite a false imprisonment claim simple ask if you are free to leave the store. If you reasonally beleive there no answer and are reasonably intimdated from exiting. Welcome to Tort law.
The receipt is my property look at it when you own it.
robot mistake
Not everyone wants to see mothers breast-feed. I had one friend who breast-fed her infant without a cover, while we ate meals out. I started making excuses not to go out to eat with her. As a woman, I have nothing against BF and I believe breastmilk is far better than formula. But there is a time and place for everything and the middle of IKEA is not where I expect to see nipple-sucking.
While breastfeeding in public is legal and natural, that doesn't make it polite or welcome. Yes, she has the right to whip out her breast and feed the baby wherever she wants to, but she should recognize that she also has the obligation to maintain a higher degree of respect for the other shoppers than to make them uncomfortable.
Yes, many Americans are prudish. Nursing a baby isn't a sexy act. But whether it should be considered indecent or not, it's not acceptable in American culture in most places. So mothers should refrain from doing things that are unacceptable in polite American society. Just because something feels natural and acceptable for you doesn't mean you should just do it in places where you know it isn't the norm. Letting loud smelly farts is legal and perfectly natural, but most normal polite people would make their best effort to not just walk around the store passing loud smelly gas. You shouldn't have to be bound by law to be decent and well-behaved in public.
As for the receipt check, I agree receipt checks are very rude. Stores shouldn't treat their customers like thieves. If she didn't do anything else that made them suspicious that she was stealing, they should not have treated her so disrespectfully.
Both the woman and the store need to learn some manners. I wish a judge would intervene and send them both to etiquette classes.
So redstar, should every human being in the US be forced to sit in closed curtain booths so no one can see anyone eat? It is minds like yours that make this fallacy of "not acceptable in American society" to be true. I am as child free as they come (both my wife and I are surgically "fixed") but when breastfeeding a baby is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Fist of all I can'y even believe that there are poeple who have time to join an organization called Citizens Against Breastfeeding. Secondly, what's the big deal about women just wanting to feed their babies when they're hungry. As far as American cultre goes thepoeple determine the culture the more women who breasfeed their babies the more it will become part of culture. I don't understand why it's ok for women to be practically naked in underwear ads and billboards that my 7 year old son has to see and it's not ok for women to breastfeed in public.
Define "American Culture." I guaranty there is nothing you can write that will accurately and consistently describe more than a tiny fraction of us.
There are over 300 million of us from every part of the world. Some of us came here recently, some of us came here centuries ago, some of us thousands of years. Some of us came from your particular country of origin. We are all vastly different people with vastly different beliefs, and it is a struggle to make it work.
The ardently anti-American comments betray a world-view not nearly as progressive or open-minded as those writers may think.
well the good thing about a breastfeeding debate is it gets all the perverts out in the open so we can watch them.
If you find that seeing breastfeeding mothers offends you, there's a simple remedy available from the most referenced authority in American culture and politics:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&verse=9&version=9&context=verse
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=9&verse=47&version=9&context=verse
"So redstar, should every human being in the US be forced to sit in closed curtain booths so no one can see anyone eat?"
Yes! And as for you young ladies, your dresses are still showing way too much ankle.
Seriously, I was at the Atlanta Zoo about a week ago, where I saw a female gorilla breastfeeding her baby. I overheard a man next to me trying to explain it to his son, going out of his way, it seemed, not to mention breastfeeding. He even said something like "he's probably just eating some of that food his mother was eating a while ago."
It made me wonder what he would have told his son if they'd seen a human mother breastfeeding her child in public. Probably would have just quickly left.
HAHA! Takuan, just what I was thinking. (#71)
i love judging strangers.
"You shouldn't have to be bound by law to be decent and well-behaved in public."
Actually, I quite agree. I find it *entirely* absurd states need to pass laws to allow mothers to breastfeed in public without harassment or censure.
So we're comparing women's, no, *mothers'* breasts to smelly farts now as well as stinky turds? Duly noted.
Akbar56, I'm child-free,too, and with you that breastfeeding shouldn't be seen as something gross. It would be okay with me personally if mothers wanted to feed in public. But lots of people don't feel that way about it. It makes many people uncomfortable.
Seeing adult humans with normal table manners eating isn't something that makes most people uncomfortable, so no, everyone should not eat behind a curtain. But if it was the norm in our culture to not see others eating or to not let others see you eating, yes, it would be best to do it in private. Breastfeeding in public is one of those issues where people should sacrifice their individual comfort and set aside their personal views on what is or is not decent to preserve the comfort of the majority.
My mother breastfed all three of her children and never once needed to do it in public view. She was always polite enough to excuse herself and do it in the car or in a back room or an empty office or someplace else. A bathroom was a last resort (because it's dirty and generally a fairly unpleasant place to sit as long as it often takes to feed a baby), but still it was better to be uncomfortable than make everyone else uneasy.
@57: I'm not sure how expectation enters into this. I *expect* screaming, running children running all over the place and crashing into things and stepping on my feet while their parents check out cheap tea towels in the middle of IKEA, but I wouldn't call them welcome or polite.
A mother quietly feeding her infant child, really, is a welcome (and polite!) reprieve.
I think you meant to say "it was better to be uncomfortable than to give a bunch of warped and self-righteous prudes a valid reason to reconsider their unreasonable prejudices".
Well-behaved women rarely make history, somebody once said.
"But lots of people don't feel that way about it. It makes many people uncomfortable."
Then to that redstar I must say, the problem lies with those who have issue with it. Not with a mother giving nourishment to their newborn.
Brooklyn does not handle these kinds of stores correctly. Whatever you expect from shopping at a chain store in the suburbs is inverted in Brooklyn. The experience is universally wretched from understocked shelves, rude employees, and throngs of pushy customers. I would indeed complain too and I hope this is resolved in a way that makes the store friendlier to mothers in the future.
However, the receipt thing is just complaining for the sake of complaining. I have made it a point of refusing to show my receipt and what it creates is a situation where a quick trip to Lowe's results in speaking to a security guard because I don't want to share my receipt. There are worse violations of privacy -- not being able to board a subway unless the police can check your bags -- but if the apparent geniuses here can offer a painless way to avoid the receipt situation, I would welcome it. Until then I will continue showing my receipt to speed my exit and hope that democracy does not crumble because of it.
Not sure about New York, but here in California retail personnel may not detain you to view your receipts if you do not wish to cooperate. They MAY detail you for suspicion of stealing, but then they would need to call the police and they may not search you. That's a job for the police. None of this applies for 'club' type businesses like Costco and Sam's Club. You agree to let them check your receipts when you join the club.
Most business will not force the issue.
please, I do not judge strangers. Condemn and summarily execute perhaps, but judge?
http://images.askmen.com/blogs/women/is-public-breastfeeding-offensive.jpg
http://www.dsf.health.state.pa.us/health/lib/health/familyhealth/isaiah_and_mom_breastfeeding_baby.jpg
http://www.celebsevolution.com/wp-content/celebs/2007/06/maggie-gyllenhaal-breast-feeding-01.jpg
http://theinspirationroom.com/daily/print/2006/11/benetton_breastfeeding_baby.jpg
http://www.motheringfromtheheart.com/lance.JPG
@anonymous 81
Unless you sign a contract (ie a membership at Costco) there is no law that I know of requiring you to show your receipt after you have purchased.
Any invasion of privacy is an invasion. It doesn't matter how small it is.
You know, if you are walking around in public, with your nursing infant, why wouldn't you have them pressed up against your body in a sling or some such baby-carrier? http://zolowear.com/
You don't have to stop and spread out and make a big deal of it every time the baby needs a drink, you just pull your boob out and pull the sling's fabric up and you are more or less completely covered. Keep walking merrily on your way. It isn't necessary to draw undo attention to yourself. Nor is it good manners to stick your nose down someone's shirt and then taking offense at what you see. Please.
"banished her to the shitter"....best phrase ever written on BB.
I breastfed all three of mine in public, all the time, although when they got to be toddlers I didn't, because they were old enough then to be able to wait a little. Most people don't know that the study with the longest duration currently done on breastfeeding shows that it confers health benefits until the age of two. Duration of the study? Two years. Someone needs to do another study and extend it longer.
The attitude that breastfeeding is somehow sexual or dirty is straight out of 1860.
What I think is dirty is glorifying artificial, fake milk for babies with the name "formula", which somehow makes it sound wonderfully scientific, instead of the overprocessed, nutritionally-limited junk that it is. I would never risk my kids having the lowering of IQ, lowered immunity/higher death rate and jaw/mouth malformations that accompany it. How those who can risk that and put their own convenience or fashionability or prudishness in front of their kids' well-being is hard for me to understand. I actually feel like I'm witnessing something horribly dirty when I see parents bottle-feeding their babies...not when they're breastfeeding. How our culture has flipped this on its ear, lulled by decades of propaganda from the fake milk industry, is truly amazing. Straight out of the Ministry of Magic under Cornelius Fudge.
I do feel very, very sorry for those that wish to breastfeed and can't, and can't find someone to do it for them (usually done by pumping).
I've never seen anyone asked to go hide themselves in order to breastfeed at the West Sacramento IKEA. Staff there have always been very polite and friendly to everyone.
However, what I do know about IKEA- they have the most amazing video surveillance and security program. I once mentioned that someone had left their dog locked in their car in the summer heat, and that I was concerned that they might want to make sure the windows were cracked (where I live, in the summer, its illegal to leave a dog in the car, they'll die in the 100+ F heat). Not only did they find the lady in less than 5 minutes, they knew which car she had been driving and escorted her to it in short order to take care of her pooch.
Its pretty likely that a security setup like that is centrally managed, so it is not in the hands of the local store manager. Additional security guards, however, would be something that the local store manager would be responsible for.
Which means that the mom in question *could* request the security footage of her being illegally detained and harassed by the security guard that the local store had hired. Preventing someone from leaving a store like IKEA on the basis of confirming receipts is unlawful. Egregiously so, since the local manager could have had video confirmation of suspicious activity provided to them in less than 5 minutes from corporate. There was no reason for detaining this woman other than pure maliciousness.
And, from the message thread this story came from, it looks like that store manager has plenty of problems coming his/her way shortly...
Just because "a lot" of people are uncomfortable with breastfeeding doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed in public.
By that argument it would be wrong for two men or two women to hold hands walking down the street because of discomfort with homosexuality. People wouldn't be allowed to dress the way they want because of how many people are uncomfortable with alternative fashion. People of certain faiths wouldn't be allowed to go door to door to talk to their communities about what they believe.
In a society that claims to be tolerant, you let some things happen even if you don't like them, with the understanding that you may do things that others don't agree with.
The "get off my lawn" attitude has led America down a dark road, where the nation doesn't seem to have any sense of pride in its diverse culture. Instead, people are cloistering themselves away in the suburbs and try to get by driving their SUV into a giant bigbox complex so they can hurry home and survive for another X number of weeks without engaging with society at large. It's no wonder people are afraid of and uncomfortable with the differences of others in an environment like that. The culture in America, especially throughout the Bush years, has been "my way or the highway." It comes off as a show of strength, but it's really a weakness.
In short, people need to get over themselves and start accepting their community.
if only these inconsiderate babies would realize that other people's discomfort is MUCH more important than their own hunger. can't they wait? and these irresponsible mothers who can't seem to train their children to eat exactly when they tell them to...why, they shouldn't be allowed to leave the house or be in public ever!
I hope the baby didn't starve on the way out to the parking lot. PROTEST AWAY!
@FUNKADELIC73: You obviously haven't heard about the brain research that shows that protracted screaming causes physical brain changes to babies' brains, making it progressively more likely that they are less and less able to cope with stress. Why would any decent human being put being "comfortable" ahead of the well-being of a baby?
I've had the receipt thing at Best Buy. What irritated me - was there was no one else checking out and the guy asking to see the receipt was standing 3 feet away and saw me being rung up by the clerk.
What, I was going to take something between the end of the counter and him? I told him not a chance, he looked shocked and started to argue, I think the look on my face dissuaded him.
WRT to the Redhook Ikea and merchandise returns - they're obligated to follow the corporate policy on returns. I'd go to Ikea.com and relate the incident. I'm guessing the store manager is trying to make his numbers, and bonus, by harassing people about returns which are counted against his daily sales totals. I'm also betting this is contrary to Ikea's policy.
For the person observing racial reporting at the Wackenhut Ikea - report it to corporate. Set up a sting and film it - send black and whites through and document the difference in treatment. I don't think corporate Ikea would be happy to discover such blatant racial profiling at one of their stores.
Though, security staff in particular are famously bad at obeying the law. They are occasionally far more dangerous to society than shoplifters.
Anyone remember the case a while back where two Wal-Mart security guards held a man pinned down against scorching hot asphalt until he died?
I think one of the real problems at play here is that, overall... there are very low standards of training and qualification for security staff. They'll hire any moron with a clean criminal record, and then make them think they have authority, when in reality they actually do not. A private citizen in a crappy uniform is still a private citizen, and society at large, especially employers, really need to do a better job of reminding these people that they have no more authority or privilege as guards than they would as an unemployed person asleep on their couch at 3pm.
Collectively, we all really need to put the worst of these people back in their places.
Turning it, by itself, into an indictment of our culture? Yes, ridiculous. However as a part of a larger trend dating back nearly as long as the nation has existed, American culture does firmly believe in revoking any rights that the majority thinks is "wrong" or merely distasteful.
Research the history of the Comstock Act, for example. Afterward, marvel at the fact that it has yet to be repealed.
American culture does truly deserve to be rebuked for its behavior on the overall issue of handling "obscenity". In this regard a large portion of us do have our heads miles up our asses, seated on a high-horse built of out bullshit.
I'd suggest something similar to this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50610-2004Aug8.html
I once noticed a woman at Ikea Amsterdam, trying several chairs and couches while breastfeeding, to see which couch was the most comfortable for the activity. Several mothers-to-be took the advice to do a little research themselves.
In San Francisco, my wife has only been hassled by born again Christians (at the church she used to attend), and flamingly gay men (at Rainbow, of all places (by another customer, not staff) and the Pride Parade).
She's blown them off (heck, I'd expect the staff to give anyone a talking to it they cught them hassling a breastfeeding mom).
I was in the Ikea here in Milano a few weeks ago and I noticed a woman breastfeeding in the restaurant. She was pretty much hangin' out all over town and it didn't seem to be a problem. Italians like breasts!
My wife has breastfed in Ikea in Burbank, CA and New Haven, CT on multiple occasions with out incident.
Redstarr makes us all uncomfortable. Please leave.
A little too much tarring the whole U.S. with the same broad brush going on here. My wife has breastfed our daughter in various public places (library, restaurants, parks, etc) for about a year now with nary a single eyebrow being raised.
It does get my blood pressure up whenever I read about this kind of silliness though.
I breast fed both of my children in public places. If someone would have said something to me about it then I had my handy dandy cell phone and I would have called in every breast feeding mom I know and had them do the same thing and see if they could have handled not just one but many. But, thankfully I never had that issue. I'm in the US and just about everywhere I was never said a thing about me doing so. I think that it happened in Redhook because of one person's sensibilities not store policy or just because it was in the USA.
to anyone that has not been to the redhook ikea, feeding of any person at all in that place should be considered a crime, that this woman attempted to breastfeed there.... at least the bathroom may actually be the most sanitary location in the building.
that place is not like any ikea you have ever been to
IKEA's nursing room is not the restroom. It's a private room, feels like a bedroom or the seating area of a Women's Restroom in Nordstrom. There is usually a chair, quiet. I breastfed all 3 of my kids. But, my personal culture, is to do this in a private setting. I do not want to pop myself out for all to see. That's why IKEA has the nursing room because they have thought of everything.
It's not a room to banish anyone. It's a room 'if that's your preference'. It's not the restroom.
I've seen plenty of moms sitting in their displays feeding their kids.
I am from Canada and the human rights protects our right to breastfeed anywere, anytime. But last may, I was invited by the lifeguard onf a municipal swimming pool to go breastfeed my baby in the changing room, but I refused. I went to the Commission des droits de la personne et de la jeunesse:
(http://www.cdpdj.qc.ca/en/commission/index.asp?noeud1=1&noeud2=1&cle=0
and won. My city has taken position FOR breasfeeding and no one can invite a breastfeeeding woman to leave, to change place or to do it "discreetly".
Go and fight ofr the right to breastfeed anytime, anywere:
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/dca-dea/images/breastfeeding_friendly_logo.jpg