Hmm. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea after all.
Susannah Breslin is a guestblogger on Boing Boing. She is a freelance journalist who blogs at Reverse Cowgirl and is at work on a novel set in the adult movie industry.
UFC fighter Frank Mir exhibits the unfortunate consequences of what happens when you step into the ring with six-foot-three, 265-pound human monster Brock Lesnar after last night's UFC 100 heavyweight bout.
If UFC 100 represents mainstream, the world has changed.
Brock Lesnar, the former World Wrestling Entertainment fighter and current UFC heavyweight champion, battered Frank Mir in a second-round knockout to set aside a festering year of bitterness.
With a likely million more watching on pay-per-view, Lesnar gave the 11,000-plus a doubly obscene hand gesture and stood firm as the disdain continued.
"Lesnar, St-Pierre claim victories at UFC 100." (Image credit: John Locher/Associated Press.)
the latest
latest episodes
wonderful, i gotta say, susan!
Okay, there's the circus; now, where's the bread?
The problem is that 'Ultimate' fighting isn't ultimate at all.
Set up an island somewhere/anywhere for anyone to disembark at any moment and try to take sole possession of it, for as long as they can win over any other challenger and for no other prize, using absolutely any means they can imagine, without any interference nor from some regulatory commission or from the mafia: then we, maybe, can begin to talk about ultimate. Lives must be put on the line and the obsession/paranoia must be absolute.
Or stay away, try to live as well and as peacefully as you can if you prefer a bigger challenge.
Mir tried a knee that got Brock P.O.ed.
Getting in the cage with Brock is a bad idea.
Getting in a cage with pre-existing hard feelings with Brock is a REALLY bad idea.
BTW iaminnocent, is napalming the island before you arrive allowed?
Yes?
I win the ugly burned up island.
@ #2
We already have the bread...McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, Pizza Hut...
If it were government bread it would be SOCIALISM and, y'know, we can't have any of that.
SPQR
Mixed martial arts is nothing more than bar fights without the beer bottles.
It's Jerry Springer on steroids. Let's watch white idiots beat the crap out of each other.
I win the ugly burned up island.
LOL
Enjoy!
I thought animal fighting was illegal in the US??
Isn't the heel supposed to lose? Are they setting him up for a big fall later?
@#6
Ignorant and racist! AWESOME!
I'm a "traditional" martial artist, and I take my fair share of crap from the MMA dudes, but I can respect that it is far from white idiots beating the crap out of each other.
Japan's MMA started it, with the Gracie family from Brazil unifying it.
It's even got it's own nerds (see Joe Lauzon, a network admin who has made it into the big time)
"I win the ugly burned up island."
Great. Now you must occupy it.. while I prime my barrage (and build a mobile nuke-proof bunker).
Man with no neck always win over man with neck.
I don't really understand the point of this story are you saying that UFC is bad or just this particular bout was too brutal. As someone who has studied martial arts for most of my life I find UFC uninteresting because it has either too many rules compared to things like Pride fighting, which mostly pitted experts of distinct styles against each other, or too few rules compared to boxing or kickboxing, which forced fighters to prevail under very specific rules
UFC. Rex-Kwan-do for idiots.
part of the fun is that most people dont get it.
i understand that it looks weird, somewhat homo erotic at times and brutal.. but it nothing more than a mixture of martial arts that are practiced all over the world.
the thin gloves cause more blood
the tits and tats crowd makes it look dumb
the fashion is boring and contains only skelettons and chains.
i still love the sport though and stayed up until 4am to see it live.
because it is unpredicable and "real".
#3 - Sounds like you're describing geopolitics for some values of politics (and of course Your Island May Vary).
#6: Among the top tier fighters in MMA are countless Olympic gold medalists and world champions in a variety of martial arts, including Judo, Jujitsu, Muay Thai, Karate, Sambo, Wrestling and others. But what's more, these best-in-class fighters can't make it in MMA without rounding their skills with technique's not native to their background style. For instance, if a champion jūdōka wishes to become a champion mixed martial artist, he or she must become a top-level striker and improve his or her Judo-honed athletics to that of a super-athlete.
Mixed martial artists are among the best athletes and fighters in the world. Long gone are the days when it was an unregulated, rule-less sport taken up by the occasional self-proclaimed bar fighter.
Also, there's absolutely no reason to bring race into the issue, but your use of race shows your ignorance, as MMA is one of the most racially diverse sports I can think of.
they really shouldn't call it "ultimate".
re: 'Mixed martial arts is nothing more than bar fights without the beer bottles.'
thats an ignorant view in several ways.
firstly on a very nerdy practical level, they they do in a ring cannot be done in a bar/on the streets unless people in the bars you go to dress very unconventionally
secondly the athleticism and conditioning pro mma artists need is phenominal, they are among the fittest athletes on the planet. also they are very skilled, if you think they are just raging beserkers you are gravely mistaken, what they do takes years and years of training. if you cant appretiate that fine but learn something about it before you make stupid comments like that
and thirdly it may seem more brutal, but is in fact far safer than boxing, because when fighters are ko'd they are not counted back in, in boxing this allows boxers to keep fighting and having their head and brain pummelled.
i couldnt care less about seeing blood or mindless violence, as someone who practices muay thai (and one day will give mma a go) i like the sport of mma. its a sport in which you truly have to out think your opponent, as pure strength will win nothing.
MMA dudes are people who can't make any money competing in their chosen discipline and so are forced (I guess) to learn some boxing moves and step into the octagon to earn some scratch. This doesn't instantly make them "among the best athletes". I'm 37, out of shape and haven't had a fight since my teens, but I could defeat Brock Lesner easily by simply pushing him into the deep end of a pool.
No, it literally is 'ultimate.' When UFC is finished, all fighting everywhere will be done. Forever.
Frank's only real mistake was handing Lesnar a defeat in his MMA premier last year. Brock has been chomping at the bit for revenge ever since.
Anyone who saw the first fight could easily see that Mir (while a highly skilled competitor) got lucky and took advantage of an unseasoned Lesnar to eke out a quick win. That didn't happen last night. Mir never stood a chance.
Brock Lesnar is a freak of nature; bigger, stronger, and faster than the average man. You'd have to be nuts to get into the ring with him.
Mixed martial artists are among the best athletes and fighters in the world.
I disagree. Put real gloves on them and apply boxing rules and none of them (under 150lbs.) could go more than 3 rounds with Manny Pacquiao. If they could hack it, MMA brawlers would be boxing which pays out 10 to 1000 times more per fight than MMA. Put Pacquiao in a MMA ring and he would last as long as he could keep from being grappled which would be pretty damn long and probably result in him KOing his opponent given his speed. Having just seen the Tyson doc., it's pretty obvious to me that none of these MMA guys could have lasted beyond a round with Mike in his prime.
There are some top MMA fighters who have top steroid regimens and probably make a bit of money selling action figure dolls, but the vast majority of MMA fights are sluggish boring one-sided fights.
There is something to be said for the lower level of repeat brain trauma experienced by MMA fighters, as compared to boxing, but I'm sure in 20 years there will be a bumper crop of former MMAers in wheelchairs.
I'll likely be in the minority on this, but I certainly don't consider this a "wonderful thing." What next, bb? Boxing match live-casts?
can we keep WWF, "ultimate fighting" off boingboing, and all sports off boingboing. I hate most sport and especially sports where taking steroids is required.
you're right about that Locobot. Just because you can take the punishment today doesn't mean the price won't be paid. They're like ballerinas that way.
Allium,
I see that you've been in Metaphoria too. :)
Seattle Pete @ 9:04 AM: Brock Lesnar was the NCAA wrestling champion in 2000, and runner-up in 1999. There's not a whole lot of money in "real" wrestling. He weighs around 270#; could you really push him into a pool?
#16: Your argument doesn't follow, but regardless, It was a sport-medicine physician who has worked with athletes from every sport that famously said sometime last year "MMA fighters are the best athletes in the world". It's hyperbolic, sure, and who knows what his motives were, but it's hard to argue that top-tier MMA fighters are not up there with the best athletes. Whether or not you could push them into a pool, well, that's for another discussion.
#19: That doesn't really make sense. By your same argument, you could put a boxer in a wrestling competition and watch them get pinned in a few seconds. That doesn't take anything from the boxer's ability to fight in his genre, which is what makes him a great fighter. Is Usain Bolt not one of the fastest people in the world because he can't beat Michael Phelps in the pool?
Re: your last point, there's a lot of unknowns with regard to how MMA fighter's brains will stand up to repeated trauma, but the amount of strikes they take to their head pales in comparison to boxers. Boxers spend a lifetime taking thousands of trained punches to their heads while mixed martial artists might take a few dozen a year. I've also read that repeated consecutive trauma (being KO'd consecutively in a short period) is worse for the brain than being KO'd once. Boxers are allowed to effectively be TKO'd 3 times in the U.S. and an unlimited number of times in some jurisdictions, where as in MMA, one they're out, the fight's over, even if the fighter can stand up immediately.
Look, I think MMA is a freak-show, as much as a lot of people, but I don't have to perpetuate wrong-headed stereotypes and misunderstandings to see that it's an absurd sport on many levels.
I saw this fight. Lesnar acted with very poor sportsmanship, he didn't even give Mir the respect of 'knocking gloves' before the match. Then Lesner proceeded to kick the crap out of Mir. Finally the coup de gras was pummeling him into one of the sides of the octagon. Here he gave repeated blows until it looked like he was punching him in the back of the head (which is very very bad). So it broken up and he was declared winner. Finally, he got up to much of the fans booing, and sounded like he was happy they were pissed. Then he flicked off the crowd, and said something about he was going to go home and drink a different brand of beer cause they wouldn't sponsor him. Finally, he said "Hell, I might even get on top of my wife tonight."
It was entertaining, but I'm glad I didn't spend the $50 on the pay-per-view.
Takuan: Lol. Good point. Think of all the knee surgeries downhill skiers have! Those savages!
NT wndrfl thng.
"...coup de gras..."
You just said that the fight ended with Lesner pummeling Mir with a piece of lard... which is almost non-metaphoric.
"Mixed martial arts is nothing more than bar fights without the beer bottles.
It's Jerry Springer on steroids. Let's watch white idiots beat the crap out of each other."
To say that MMA is nothing more than bar fights without the bottles is completely ridiculous. I'm not even really sure how you could arrive at that conclusion if you had made any effort to look into the deep history of this sport from its vale tudo origins to its highly regulated present form. You're just wrong, really.
That is actually one of the more ignorant comments I have ever read on BB. MMA is extremely diverse, from american hispanics to brazilian japanese to french africans and everything in between.
"MMA dudes are people who can't make any money competing in their chosen discipline and so are forced (I guess) to learn some boxing moves and step into the octagon to earn some scratch"
This is also completely untrue. Many MMA fighters actually have careers outside of MMA, some are nurses some are teachers some are fisherman and some are carpenters. These are not just fighters who couldnt make it their chosen disciple, these are fighters a lot of times who HAVE made it in their chosen disciple but have decided to progress to something else in their lives. Whether that be for personal reasons, financial reasons, or just for the pure physical challenge of it, it is not fair to generalize that MMA fighters are subpar single discipline fighters. Many of them have a broad range of skills and always have, and now they have a mainstream platform to display that diversity.
"I'll likely be in the minority on this, but I certainly don't consider this a "wonderful thing." What next, bb? Boxing match live-casts?"
You may be taking this single MMA post a little too seriously. ;P
I actually was glad to see BB post this and I have no misconceptions about future posts, this may be the first and last MMA post on BB, who knows. This is not a sports site I grant you that but I can respect BB for acknowledging that last night a sport which has struggled to be respected, celebrated its 100th main event, to a huge worldwide audience and BB gave a little tip of that hat. Nothing more. I can dig it.
"can we keep WWF, "ultimate fighting" off boingboing, and all sports off boingboing. I hate most sport and especially sports where taking steroids is required."
Really? Really? If the winner of the fight got a Steampunk Vaio W and a hand-crocheted little big planet figure would it be ok? Maybe they can hold the the next UFC event at the san fran makers faire? Come on. Just because you may not like something, you should still be able to objectively appreciate its merits. And come on, BB makes one MMA post and its the end of the world.
And for what its worth, I work as a sous chef, went to school for finishing carpentry, am a qualified luthier, frequent surfer in the pacific northwest, steampunk accessories maker, and oh yeah, MMA enthusiast. And we can still be friends. :)
how about if they were tied hand and foot and greased up and left to roll around in the pen just using teeth?
#25: I hate most liberal politics, so I think BB shouldn't talk about that.
Sounds stupid, right? The posters talk about what they want, and you read what interests you.
MMA is extremely repetitive, simple and violent. It is not a sport for thinkers. It is a coping mechanism for men who feel inadequate and are not equipped to vent those feelings into something productive.
That said, I do think it qualifies as a sport. But then, so does pit bull fighting and greyhound racing. Just because it's competitive doesn't mean it's right.
But if it keeps those violent idiots off the streets and keeps the rest of us from having to buy more pepper spray, stun guns and ammunition to fend them off, then I suppose it has its place. Indeed, the fighting should move on to all-out gladiatorial combat. Let the morons butcher each other for the amusement of other morons, if that's what they all want to do. Anything to keep them away from the rest of us.
n smpl qstn...
WTF s ths pst dng n Bng Bng?
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, one of the most dominant fighting styles in MMA today is essentially based on non-violent submissions of your opponent. Heavily developed by the several families in Brazil including the Gracies, BJJ and GJJ are fighting styles originally created for smaller men to defend themselves against larger and tougher opponents. It is more akin to wrestling or Judo then to Boxing. Granted their are some fighters who prefer a more 'confrontational' style, and some fights to play out on the rougher side of things but is not fair to generalize that all MMA fighters are dangerous, or that it is a sport not for 'thinkers'.
To properly execute a technically demanding move in a technically demanding style such as BJJ requires a lot of thought in fact. Watch a Gracie fight and most of the time he doesnt even throw any strikes. He analyzes his oppenents style, finds an opening, and the fight ends before any blood is shed.
If the pitbulls could tap, throw in the towel, get paid, have top end doctors, personal nutritionists and trainers, or lock in submissions then yes it would be the same. But they cant, so its not.
Yes it can be bloody, yes it can be rough. But not always. The bloody picture of Frank Mir is perhaps not the best introduction to MMA for the average BB reader. Nor is what you see in a lot of media. Always the ugly side. Simply not a fair representation.
"this not a wonderful thing" comments aside. That particular picture, of a man battered in a sport where the goal is to inflict violence and damage on another person does seem... i guess... particularly out of place here.
it's all up to the bloggers of course and there are things that feel somewhat out of place on a daily basis. this one just feels... i don't know...
I, for one, welcome our big, sweaty, bloody, muscular, nearly naked overlords. I welcome them with open, er, arms. If you don't like it, scroll past it.
It is a coping mechanism for men who feel inadequate and are not equipped to vent those feelings into something productive.
Boxers, MMAs, etc. are, with a few exceptions, the most polite, well-behaved people in the sports world. Although Mike Tyson breaks enough laws for any hundred other people, it's quite rare to see boxers or MMAs in court or in the tabloids, compared to football or basketball players. Martial arts require discipline.
To #37. Brazilian ju-jitsu, the basis of most groundfighting you'll see in the UFC, is EXTREMELY technical, even nerdy in its own way. It looks boring not because its unsophisticated, but because the uninitiated can't recognize what's going on. In short, it's not simple, you are.
#37: That is probably the same stance you take on most contact sports, correct? These sports are not for the intellectual elite. They are for the lower class, the mouth breathers, the knuckle draggers.
Demonizing makes it easier to dismiss something that you do not understand or enjoy. It also lumps all those who do enjoy it into an easily marginalized group; a very shallow approach, very closed-minded.
Majority of athletes are never in court and well behaved, think of how many baseball players out there, and how many are in court. How many MMA players are out there now? Just numbers.
The same guys who were obsessively into poker a few years ago are now into MMA. I can't stand the people who watch that shit. And it is absolute shit.
And what is so wonderful about MMA? Just doesn't belong here.
Strongly agree with above.
@ #20 Lesnar is one of the best athletes in the world. Having won NCAA wrestling championships, wrestling in the WWE (yes it takes skill), playing NFL football (preseason, but to make it that far is amazing for even the best college players) and now MMA. He has more balance in his pinky toe then you (or I), so I doubt you'd be pushing him an inch!
@ #25 What's wrong with sports? nerds can enjoy them and are actually starting to have huge impacts (see stats guys and baseball).
Also, St-Pierre is an artist!
Just doesn't belong here.
Maybe you'd have a better time here.
http://www.maxim.com/
Many UFC fights are very entertaining, many are snooze-inducing.
Something else that's very entertaining is watching/listening to self-righteous people who aren't familiar with MMA techniques talk about how it's simply a shelter league for fading or second-rate fighters. HILARIOUS.
UFC is simply the American-based league of MMA competition that's been going on in other countries for a long time.
While I agree that some of the marketing of the sport is almost indistinguishable from tough-guy antics of WWF, many of the ranked fighters are in a class all their own. Anyone who steps in here and starts saying how MMA fighters wouldn't be able to survive in "real fighting competitions" like boxing don't get it. MMA fighters begin with a base style of fighting like boxing, wrestling, jujitsu, etc - and then build up basic defenses in styles unfamiliar to them to boost their defensive and offensive skills. In past years, the UFC has proven just the opposite, actually - boxers or other fighters who simply rely on only one discipline don't last long.
It's not just a bunch of guys throwing wild punches - some of the techniques on display are the result of 10 years or more of cross-training. Sometimes the techniques inspire amazing energetic fights, sometimes it means two guys exchanging wrestling holds and some elbows on the ground.
too bad one of the most-promoted fights in the league just so happened to be one of the more boring fights this year, which won't do much to being in new fans.
but the armchair quarterbacks here are pretty hilarious to listen to.
I sometimes wish the "Directory of Wonderful Things" tag would just disappear as I'm quickly growing tired of all the "this is not wonderful" posts. It's getting as redundant as "1st!" posts used to be on less moderated boards. "A Directory of Things" would be more entertaining as its hard to argue that "This is not a thing!"
As for MMA and the bloody fights from last night: I'm a big fan of MMA, but I think what most people fail to understand is how technical the sport can be. I think the most exciting fights are when two fighters are grappling, positioning for submissions, and trying to make the other fighter tap out. But unfortunately, most people would say that's a boring fight, even those on here that say it's too bloody when they resort to strikes and elbows.
Hence the paradox of MMA: the most technical fights are seen as the most boring to the unfamiliar, and the rarer bloody fights produce the most outrage and dismissal of the sport.
"I might even lay on top of my wife tonight!"
i agree. mma definitely has an appeal, but really, on bb? i understand everyone snipes each other for even SUGGESTING topic segregation, but please.
and why all the disemvowelling? i saw nothing over the line...
take all the aggression and bedazzled affliction shirts over to with leather
#25 UFC fighters do not take steroids, well if they do they are banned from fighting.
the commission for fighting tests fighters for roids, drugs, etc and if they are caught with them they are banned and Dana White (UFC's owner) is pretty adamant about running a clean sport.
and it was probably blogged about because it was a big event, it was the 100th UFC Event, and if you haven't noticed UFC is a big deal now and its basically killed off any demand for boxing (which was struggling anyway)
and this fight in particular was a rematch from Brock's first fight in the UFC where he lost to Frank Mir (the guy who's picture is above)
I am a UFC fan and have been for a long time. However, I liked it so much better back in the Gracie days. Fighters bowed to each other before matches and hugged after the fights. Respect and honor were paramount. But that didn't sell well enough so they brought in the gloves so we could see some blood. The sport has degenerated since. Take away the gloves and you have real sport. Only a fool will risk breaking his hands punching a human skull. Thus the return of skill to the forefront.
Meanwhile, Lesnar rules and the world's leading martial arts remains good old American amateur style wrestling, Lesnar's specialty.
how about a real fight? No rules. Last man standing walks out with the money. How do you think it would go? A big guy could win in the clinch, a fast, small one could blind and then kill at leisure. They'd have to be naked of course, no possible unfair advantages. That would mean a change in basic technique since having genitals torn off would be a bit of a liability. Biting throats and snapping small bones would figure. Cupped hand ear strikes can't be shrugged off since the spike of compressed air shatters the delicate inner ear. Elbow strikes at the base of the neck eliminates lunging for the legs as is so popular now. Knee strike to throat and the good old muay thai elbow/knee skull cracker would be match enders. Biting off ears and noses, tearing off ears and lips, real submission tactics like grinding a broken elbow joint in slow circles. the jumping stamp kick on the head of the fallen... oh yeah, I'd pay to see that.
Then you could call it Real Ultimate Fighting.
Looks like it was a bad time to give up hamster style.
Oddly enough, in the very multicultural state I live in, Hawaii, MMA appears to occupy the place traditionally held by boxing.
Young men likely to be 'at-risk' either due to socioeconomic class or propensity for violence get steered towards first Gracie, then MMA to teach them discipline and get them away from drugs and gangs. This is possibly due to our high Filipino and Japanese populations, both cultures that very often instruct their children in martial arts from a very early age.
eideal852
In UFC, merciless snap disemvowelling is allowed.
Unicorn Farting Championship chaser requested!
Takuan,
Most of those tactics don't work unless you have dominant positioning in the first place.
Biting and nudity aside, those techniques were all legal in early UFCs and many promotions in other countries. They don't work too well compared to high-percentage boring things like punching and grappling.
Okaaay... WELL then, let me elaborate...
You can go on and on about the skill involved and how nice most of these people are, etc, etc. But this is just brawling. Skilled brawling is still brawling.
Maybe there is some merit to MMA as some sort of "sport". But really, aren't we better than this? Aren't we capable of enjoying sports that are more varied and graceful than two guys beating the snot out of eachother? Have we come that far from Roman gladiators?
I've been in a bar that while they were showing the UFC championship, and I have to say, it was difficult to see past the mob of people screaming for violence while two guys in a cage beat eachother senseless.
UFC is going mainstream, and that saddens me. Being a living, breathing Human allows us so many opportunities: art, literature, music, blogging, making love, cooking, eating great food, drinking great drinks, enjoying nature in all its forms, debating, imagining, philosophizing... there's so much to BEING Human. But somehow, we can't get away from that biggest thing that makes the Human condition entirely miserable: violence. Not only do we not try to escape it, but we are REVELLING in it.
And that is WHY it's not wonderful.
Bottom line here is that the top MMA fighters make 200-300 thousand per fight while the UFC rakes in hundreds of millions in pay-per-view revenues. Top boxers make 10-50 million and they get a cut of the pay-per-view. If these guys were actually "top athletes" with such untouchable skills they would step up to the plate and play a sport with sensible pay. C'mon this Lesnar guy couldn't make it off an NFL practice squad...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJXZLnMPiQ4
@35 - "how about if they were tied hand and foot and greased up and left to roll around in the pen just using teeth?"
They could tie them up, put them in a sausage casing, and call it 'Ultimate Biting Sausage'. They could change the octagon to a giant frying pan to motivate them a little.
Brock Lesnar has had a lot of training.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDmdf46JZZ0
now yer talkin!
#62 LOCOBOT: Are you actually some AI bot that can complete sentences but not make attempts at logical argument without non sequitur?
In spite of what you say, there's nto a 1:1 correlation between pay and athleticism, and again, MMA is no boxing, so an MMA fighter's inability to win a belt in the boxing ring has nothing to do with his or her athleticism.
Again, by your argument, top level rowers are not athletes because they make pennies (at best) and could not hack it in the boxing ring. Do you see how silly a thing to say this is?
The guy who Lesner lost to in the NCAA wrestling is playing for the Patriots now. Guess who's better?
primates are primates. Rhesus monkeys or UFC fighters, when they really are fighting for their lives they act the same. And a single lab monkey is more than a match for a full grown, adult human.
Hey, how about letting them empty their bladder and bowels in a clinch to help slip out of the opponents grasp?
@ #54
The addition of gloves was to comply with the rules of the athletic commission in order to be recognized as an officially sanctioned sport.
Also, most fighters do have deep respect for their opponents. There were many indications of this on several of the undercard fights last night. Lesner is just a goon and not the best representative of the sport.
@Bascule:
How about filters for those annoying, ignorant, whiners instead?
Re: The money, viz boxing.
The money in boxing is really impressive on paper, but Mike Tyson is broke.
How does that work? Starts with D, ends with G.
mmm, "dog"?
Maybe Susannah was trying for a meta reference to the opposite of pr0n? Instead of two (or more) people trying to explore each other's bodies, MMA is two people trying their best to deconstruct each others bodies. Both can use the adjective pounding to equal effect as well...
@#41 (11:11 EST)
I heartily agree. I've never met someone like Johnny from Kobra Kai, but I have met plenty of D-bags who played other sports that require less individual discipline (notably basketball).
While I'm not personally an MMA fan, I can appreciate that its much more tactical than I ever anticipated before living with a fan for 2 years. I think most folks are taking the debate over the top. It was a clever title for a striking image. That's half the reason I frequent blogs like BB in the first place, for a quick jolt of something I wouldn't find in my own search history. In that regard, that fits the bill perfectly.
@ Mark Temporis #72:
Don King isn't looking out for the interests of people like Tyson, but the real reason Mike is broke is because he thought a white tiger and an expensive mansion and a bunch of tacky gold-plated shit was more important to have than an accountant.
Plus he's kinda, you know, criminally insane. That can run up the legal bills pretty quick.
I'm not really sure why MMA stuff was posted to BoingBoing... But please, keep doing it -- there's nothing more hilarious than self-righteous digerati making ignorant fools of themselves in their commentary, desperately grasping at straws to convince themselves that they're somehow superior to a hillbilly straw man that they've concocted. Too funny.
You are closest to correctest, THERAPTSCALLION (#74).
More "twinner" than "opposite," though. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_The_Dark_Tower
Ultimate fighting is barbaric and should be banned.
And not to say they shouldn't be posted just because of my preferences or anything, but I personally prefer not to look, even briefly, at pictures of people who have been beaten bloody, unless it's to raise my political consciousness or something.
When they've been beaten bloody for the entertainment of stupid barbaric assholes, I really see no reason I should have to look.
martial arts deserve the title of art for the discretion with which they are utilized as much or more than the skills they pass along.
Xopher, please see Shannon's comment at #76.
Also, how self-centered, solipsistic and generally selfish do all the name-callers have to be to say things like "I think this sport is barbaric and I do not like it, therefore it should be banned."
I can't stand baseball. I think it's boring and ruled, at times, by performance enhancing drugs and moneyed thugs. But so what? I don't watch it, but I certainly don't demonize everyone who does watch it and I don't pretend to understand all the nuances of the sport and its history. I don't go online and trash the sport, and I would NEVER presume that because I do not like it, it should be banned from the face of the earth, let alone a blog like Boing Boing.
It's bizarre, to me, how so many people are so quick to wish censorship on something they don't like or understand. Even weirder to see them in such numbers on Boing Boing, a blog that seems to hate censorship as much as any. Do you would-be censors read the first chapters of 1984 and think, "man, that's the kind of world I could live in!"
Fedor Emelianenko would kill Brock Lesnar.
To all those people who say "This shouldn't be here" are you part of the editorial board here?
By coming to this site we are implicitly agreeing to subject ourselves to what our hosts and their invited guest bloggers put forth.
I don't agree I would call wonderful, everything that gets posted on this site but I recognize that I can always scroll past it.
To heap obloquy on what rubs us wrong is desperately intolerant. A lot of the "regulars" seem to have an over proprietary interest in being threadchair editors and determining the content themselves (knowing full well their own efforts at internet stardom wouldn't get anywhere near the popularity). For a site that celebrates the DIY, live and let live, libertarian ethos there sure are a lot of people telling the editors what to do.
#19 - don't get your knickers in a knot.... it is just glorified bar fights. You can try to compare it against boxing, but in the end of the day they are all sports for those with less brains - both the participants and the viewers.
I accept the comment about Pride being a more true pursuit of excellence - pitting various styles against others is in a way scientific, as it suggests a search for the optimal martial-arts discipline.
I don't care if the guys in MMA used to be professional athletes... all that makes them is has-been wash-ups. Athletes, my ass. Stupid sport for stupid people. MMA/Boxing is to sport as Action Movies are to film.
#3 said it right - "try to live as well and as peacefully as you can if you prefer a bigger challenge."
To all those people who say "This shouldn't be here" are you part of the editorial board here?
Yes, if boingboing isn't interested in its readers' reactions they can disable the comments area and become as uninsightful as newspapers and magazines.
Regardless of what you think of MMA -- can you give one reason this photo belongs on boingboing? What would you think if there was a random photo of baseball or from a whitehouse press conference or any of the other million well-covered and well-publicised events in the world?
The point of a directory of wonderful things is to see things that are interesting and unusual -- not random routine photos with no caption saying what's interesting about them. Let alone with an advertisement promoting some blog and a book.
Boxing, UFC, and the like aren't sports - anything that depends on causing enough pain and brain trauma to your opponent that he can't stand up or fight back is simply barbarism. That doesn't mean that these guys aren't strong, tough, and skilled, or that I could last 3 rounds in the ring with Muhammed Ali even in the shape he's in today.
By contrast, wrestling can be a real sport, even though US "professional wrestling" is more bogus theater than sport, compared to college or Olympic wrestling. Most of the martial arts I've seen have been legitimate, though some forms are more about real fighting than real sport.
At least the Romans had lions. (:
Great, a bloody-faced participant in a brutal and violent sport whose last name (Mir) means "peace" in Russian.
"Peace, out."
I'm not saying it shouldn't be here. I'm saying it shouldn't be allowed. Period. I'm saying it's human cockfighting. I don't care if the cocks are willing to fight, and I don't care if the dicks who do ultimate fighting are willing, either. If they're that stupid and/or crazy it's incumbent upon a decent society to recognize them as a danger to themselves and others, and restrain them as necessary.
And I'm quite comfortable with Shannon thinking I'm an ignorant fool, and with Clayton thinking I'm selfish, because I think the same things about them.
Baseball, Clayton, does not involve people ripping each other to bloody shreds for the entertainment of bloodthirsty monsters like you. False parallels are a particularly stupid form of argument, and one particularly well suited to a stupid, barbaric pseudo-"sport" like this one.
Oh, and I think boxing should be banned, too. And baseball bores me silly.
I completely agree with Shannon's post. Even if I weren't an MMA fan, it's priceless to see people that don't get it flail for excuses hate it other than because it's icky, all the while exposing their own ignorances and hang-ups left and right. I wonder how much their world will spin when they hear that women are getting into the sport as well.
It's fascinating to watch the ignorant louts who enjoy watching this human bloodsport talk about decent people "flailing for excuses" when in fact we (or at least I) have made very specific, concrete arguments why it should be banned.
A lot of people in this thread could use the mirror from the Alan Watts thread. They might also benefit from a solid MMA kick to ass to dislodge their heads.
Nvr strt flm-wr wth thck-hdd dts wh njy wtchng ths grbg. t wll nvr nd.
Jst bcs thr mght b ngh rtrds t thr t mk MM pplr, dsnt mn shld hv t s n hmn smshng th fc f nthr. Ths hppns ngh rnd th wrld vry dy, bt ths sshls wnt t s t lv. Pty thy cn't cnsr ths sht, bt thy cn cnsr th wr trcts hppnng ll th tm.
Pt ncnsrd pctrs/vd f th ftrmth f scd bmb ttck n th nws nd wll strt t cnsdr th mthdd rgmnt tht hv t ccpt sng ths thngs wtht cnsnt. Ssnnh Brsln - y r scm. Jst bcs y r ntrstd n ths dsn't mn th wrld wnts t hr bt t. Pst ths crp n n MM frm whr t blngs.
coming soon: gang brawls. Count on it. Two on one to start "to show how tough the champ is", then two on two, finally a pitched melee.
Guest bloggers have the right to post whatever they like. I question SB's judgement in posting it, however, and I question the Boingers' judgement in inviting her as a guest blogger.
hey, how about the winners get to eat the losers?
but only after having sex with them first.
A very modest proposal, Takuan! *high-fives Takuan*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkdOv9DCuUA
No, Takuan, you have the sequence wrong. They have to kill them and partially eat them first, THEN have sex with the bleeding corpses.
Wow, that'd be ratings gold!
I don't understand it therefore it's beneath me.
"but only after having sex with them first."
My guess is that you have recently googled 'ultimate surrender'
Uhhh the ignorance of so many people posting here just really bothers me!
The bad attention Brock Lesnar brings to the UFC
Brock Lesnar is a meat head, he's an asshole. But so many people here have opinions on a sport based on almost no understanding of it. The heavy weight division of the UFC (yes there are divisions, the sport is regulated, there are rules, it's not a glorified "bar fight") is not very talent rich.
The reason Lesnar is the heavy weight champion is because he beat Randy Couture who is very small for his division and had not fought in a long time due to a legal battle with the UFC organization (hence the interim heavy weight belt that Mir had) not to mention the guy is 46.
Now Mir has never really been that good either, he is a skilled BJJ practitioner but until he beat Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira he was not very well respected. Although Nogueira is very skilled he peaked in pride and looked very bad against Mir, he's also been fighting pro for 10 years which is a long time.
What people unfamiliar with the sport missed
Yoshihiro Akiyama vs. Alan Belcher - The fight went 3 rounds, and what happened after this fight? The two opponents hugged, showing there great respect for each other. Do you see this kind of respect in other sports? Not usually.
Georges St-Pierre vs. Thiago Alves - The fight went 5 rounds, it was with top class athletes (I don't think I would put Lesnar or Mir in this category). And what happened after the fight? They Hugged, again showing how most MMA fighters are very respectful of each other.
Jon Fitch vs. Paulo Thiago - This fight consisted mostly of BJJ, was probably the most entertaining (to me at least), and at the end what happens? They shake hands.
MMA is not a "bar fight"
If you compare the UFC fighters stand up skill levels with that of professional boxing or K-1 then yes they are not as good. But the UFC is a Mixed martial arts organization. For example Thiago Alves is probably a much better striker than GSP, but GSP was able to neutralize his striking skills by capitalizing on his greatest skill grappling, and exploiting Thiago's weakness BJJ (which is actually surprisingly good). Also if you consider BJJ, Judo, Wrestling, or Boxing sports then you might be surprised to find out that UFC has some of the most highly decorated practitioners in there given sport and have transitioned to MMA.
#83 Teapot said "I accept the comment about Pride being a more true pursuit of excellence - pitting various styles against others is in a way scientific, as it suggests a search for the optimal martial-arts discipline."
Are you kidding me? Why don't you go watch the first 5 UFC events. There were a joke, it was pitting various styles against each other and do you know what happened most of the fights were "bar fights". And at UFC 1 BJJ was proven to be the best martial-art discipline but over time the sport has evolved to a level at which you can not have only one discipline but many in order to excel.
Bruce Lee emphasized what he called "the style of no style". This consisted of getting rid of a formalized approach which Lee claimed was indicative of traditional styles. Because Lee felt the system he now called Jun Fan Gung Fu was too restrictive, it was developed into a philosophy and martial art he would come to call Jeet Kune Do or the Way of the Intercepting Fist.
So what I am trying to say is that there is no optimal martial-arts discipline, and I think that's why MMA is so popular it emphasizes the strengths of many different martial arts.
The Pride fighting organization was more brutal that the UFC and had many fights with brainless meat heats that pretty much were in glorified bar fights (ever herd of Don Fry? I'm guessing not... Although to his credit he was a very talented wrestler in college). The Pride fighting organization allowed feat stomps! In Pride you could stomp on a guys head until the ref stopped the fight. Yet you find this to be a truer pursuit of excellence... Have you ever seen Anderson Silva or Lyoto Machida fight? Please do me a favor and watch some of there matches. Seriously guys like Lyoto Machida are the future of MMA not idiots like Lesnar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92vV3QGagck&feature=PlayList&p=85D11421F2D9DE14&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10
#67 CLAYTON - I'm sorry you're not able follow basic inductive logic, but let's see if I can slow it down for you.
If UFC and boxing or wrestling are such completely unrelated endeavors why are people listing Lesnar's NCAA success as proof of his elite athleticism? MMA has, for now, a slightly better record for not turning participants into invalids than the NFL or boxing but surely, even you can understand, that in terms of stress placed on the human body these are the two closest corollaries in professional sport. The reason NFL starting offensive linemen (almost always the smartest players on the field) make 3+ million per year is that it significantly reduces their life expectancy. Can you see how being pummeled and ending up looking like the bloody-nosed guy above would place similar stress on the body? At the same time the compensation for MMA brawling is significantly less than sports with similar demands on the athletes. You still following CLAYTON? So why would anyone pursue professional MMA fighting (which is apparently to you completely unrelated to any other sport) for any other reason other than that they are incredibly stupid or 3rd rate athletes?
Also given the UFC's more than permissive attitude toward steroid use I'm not entirely sure it can be considered "sport."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBEP5c-SUEQ&feature=PlayList&p=2ADB5EDD589A5B54&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=23
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CH1Dk-rZ1IE
I'm impressed by how many Boingers watch this stuff. Not positively impressed, but impressed.
Post about UFC? "BURN THE WITCH! THIS IS NOT 'WONDERFUL'! WHO IS THIS GUEST BLOGGER! TO THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!"
Post about a criminal lopping off a digit for not completing a criminal task to his master's expectations? "Ooh, this is so interesting." (Monocles adjusted, snifters stirred, demonstrations of Japanophilia)
A sport is a competitive athletic contest, with rules designed to structure the competition, establish clear victory conditions and prevent injury to the participants. Sports are supposed to be a substitute for violence (even intercity war), not an instance of it.
Ultimate fighting fails to qualify.
GrimC, I objected to that too, on the grounds that by the time I knew I didn't want to look at it, I already had.
Argh! Spoiler alert please!
Complete failure of civility. I'm closing the thread.