Couple finds $10 mil in their bank account, take it and run
A couple in New Zealand found an extra NZ10,000,000 in their bank account, so they transferred it offshore and split:
New Zealand couple flee after finding £4m in their bank accountThe pair, named in media reports as Leo Gao and Cara Young, could hardly believe their luck when they checked their account at Westpac bank on 5 May, hoping to find their request for a NZ$10,900 (£4,000) overdraft had been accepted.
Instead, the bank had deposited 1,000 times that amount: NZ$10m, or around £4m. With so many borrowers around the world constantly being told "no" by their creditors, here, finally, was a bank that liked to say "yes".
Last night the accidental millionaires from Rotorua, a tourist city on the north island overlooking, appropriately enough, the Bay of Plenty, are on an Interpol wanted list after fleeing with the bulk of their windfall two weeks ago.
the latest
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best of luck to them!
Could not resist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFGZufk4HFs
Kiwis cutting loose, eh?
Wanted by Interpol?! That's some shit isn't it. It's the banks fault and yet they are the criminal because they kept the money.
Yeah you can argue the money technically isn't theirs, but at the same time it's similar to losing cash. If you find it, it's not yours either...
And at the same time isn't this one of the reasons banks have insurance? (Not like FDIC, but private insurance for themselves.)
If they want ultimate Chuck Norris win, they should donate it all to charity and let the bank handle getting it back...
Serious question...how far and what would be the best way to get away with this? Isin't money that big really on a CC only...not like you see people walking around with a million in cash all the time...
It's nice to see a bank's stupid behavior benefitting a costumer for a change.
Technically, most jurisdictions have laws against keeping found cash too. I have heard that in NYC, there have actually been police stings on this: the cops leave a few twenties lying around and bust you if you don't turn it in to them.
What a commie law.
I worked at an operations department at a US bank before and moved thousands of dollars around. Once I moved $7000 in the wrong account. I was told that they could keep the money by law so I had better fix it fast, which I did.
The money is not theirs: show me any case, from any where, where a Court of Law let people in similar circumstances keep the money. If the Bank had discovered their mistake, and sucked the money out of their account again, could they complain about the "theft"? No.
Nope, they gotta run!
The cops in NYC don't leave twenties around. They do have a lot of undercover officers in taxis, etc. and they have had undercover officers pretend to be passed out drunk at night on the subway to see if someone would rob them.
They also left purses to be found it the subway system to see if the finder would turn them in. They caught innocent people that way though and it the practice was stopped.
http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/subjects/d/decoys/index.html
Yes, the police here frequently go too far and infringe on civil rights in an official way as well as the rogue cops breaking the law.
boy, that's a mistake that bank won't forget anytime soon.
Hey, they charge us huge fees when we make errors... as far as I'm concerned, this is their fee for their error.
"boy, that's a mistake that bank won't forget anytime soon."
Sure they will. Just as soon as they pick someone to be the scapegoat and fire him/her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAdeBb48Rz0
An inside job?
Retchdog - you're misusing communism as an insult. In a communist country, the cops would just pocket the money and arrest people who look Jewish.
Marcel - Yeah, this mistake probably will benefit a costumer. Probably a hairdresser, a fake-ID fixer, and a plastic surgeon too. The question is whether the customer/fugitives will have much of it left by the time they pay all those people
Uh, why do some people think that stealing the money is OK, and the bank being upset is wrong? What if you accidentally deposited your money into someone else's account? Would you just let it go- oops! My bad! Keep the change!
No, I don't think so.
The law here in NZ is interesting - if money like this shows up and you spend it in good faith it's yours (suppose you were expecting an inheritance and suddenly a large amount shows up in your account and you hold a big party). In this case they were expecting $10k and got $10m so they have to give it back.
Sounds like the bank has gotten $4M of the $10M back the rest is still missing along with the couple who are thought to be somewhere in China
Good for them! At very least there's a "feel good" film script in this.
This headline troubles me, as it doesn't reference the "NZ$" instead opting for the shorter "$" which is used for other currencies. Technically, the couple got $612,585.04 (NZ$1,000,000.00)
To start with: I'm of the opinion that the Bank has the right to recoup this money, just like I'm of the opinion that I have the right to complain to the bank when they start processing legitimate drafts/credits against my accounts in creative ways that invariably end up in fees benefitting them.
But: If a couple was prepared for a high-stakes caper, I bet they could make a pretty good run at disappearing. It'd be better if you were prepared for it in the sense that you were receiving the money originally under an assumed ID, rather than your real one.
In reality, people thrust into this sort of situation and have and immediate greed-based reaction probably aren't going to have planned through well enough to actually get away with the perfect crime. Disappearing into China is probably as good a start as any, though. You might have a tougher time getting cooperation between the bank owners of the new accounts, and probably fewer extradition worries.
I hope they live happily ever after.
@9: Purses: OK, that's essentially the same thing as a twenty. And they're all innocent afaic; it's a moronic law. If you find something, it's yours. You can return it if you want to be nice.
Let me set the stage... 15+ years ago I worked at a foreign currency exchange processing shop.... essentially customers of big bank X would go to their local branch, and they'd trade in their whatevers for dollars. We'd get back bundles of envelopers with foreign money, and we'd have to make sure everything aligned right (ie money was proper type, amt was correct, rate was correct etc).
One day I had an envelope with the amount of approx $65K on it... way more than usual and very thin. Inside was a single 100K german note for the WWII times. Some bank clerk erroneously paid out $65K to some customer who showed up with a worthless WWII note.
I'm kind of worried how many people think it's OK to keep found stuff, especially large amounts of money or purses, which often contain important IDs, cash, and expensive gadgets. It isn't the "nice" thing to do to return a lost possession; it's the right thing, and you can do it whether you're a jerkwad or a saint.
"Honey, our bailout money is finally here!"
We'd better consult the chart!
I totally agree with #24 about the number of comments of "you find, it's yours"
If I leave my bag at the table in the library while I go to pick up a book and it's gone when I come back, it's been stolen.
It's certainly not been "found".
I would totally love to see how this would have worked out if they'd given it to charity. The question on everyone's minds is "can the banks make themselves look any worse?"
If it were given to charity, the charity would certainly give in back to the bank. They'd "make some it back" via the publicity I would think.
Retchdog: They found this not on the beach, or in a garbage can: they actively withdrew it from a bank account. And it's a bit too much for the dotty-old-aunt-expecting-a-automatic-deposit-so-it's-all-in-good-faith exception.
All of the stuff you find physically, technically, ought to be advertised and declared publicly as being yours, if no-one should claim: and usually, after some period of time has passed with no claimants, it's yours. Rightly so.
It's the holding onto the clearly identifiable property that's found laying around that causes a problem of theft and unjust taking.
Justice demands disgorgement, sez I.
It's wrong and against the law, but... I suspect I might do the same, at least if the sum was larger. I don't think I'd value my life in my home country less than $600,000, if the alternative was to disappear somewhere where I can't be extradited from easily. That and the nerve-wracking life that would be. If I had a crappy life and nothing to lose, maybe...
@ 19
"Technically, the couple got $612,585.04 (NZ$1,000,000.00)"
You have failed by your own standards by failing to say what $ the 612,585.04 is in. Or do you simply not do so because you are talking about USD and assume that USD is the default money option - it certainly isn't for people who don't live in the US such as the people who received the money.
Also you are wrong because the couple receive NZD10,000,000.00, not the amount you state.
It all depends on where you found it, and how you act after you've found it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/573472.stm
There ain't half-been some lucky bastards....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w24CygIx3o
A transfer of that amount would have a pretty solid paper trail and it seems like the bank could just take it back. And if the bank it was sent to refused, they would do so at the peril of losing all connections to any other banks in the world.. I could be wrong, of course.
they merely copied some numbers they found on the internet. from one website to another.
if the bank had sent them an mp3 file you would all be arguing that the bank is evil and they are merely innocent participants in an online drive by.
Extradition treaties!
That's for the U.S.
Countries with treaties with NZ are left as an exercise for the reader. Keep this info handy - you never know! :)
Looks like China is the place to be (specifically Hong Kong, as far as I'm concerned). Most places without extradition treaties (with the U.S.) are very much NOT places I'd want to live. After HK, probably the Philippines.
If only New Zealand had The Dark Knight.
I don't like the comparison to found objects, and I don't think this situation is complicated enough to warrant an analogy. It's like a car with two steering wheels.
Finally someone smart enough to realize you either give it all back immediately or take it and run like hell. Those are the only two choices. The morons who spend some or all and then play dumb fail at this life test.
Fly little kiwis!
The analogy to stealing a backpack is not very good at all....
It would be more like this: You and a roommate "share" a backpack. One day you put a $100 bill in it or twentys or some amount of cash. Thinking you be taking it with you later and need the money. However between that time your roommate takes the bag, finds the money and spends some of it. Now in my opinion: Yes he is in the wrong for spending it. No it is not stealing, not in terms of directly taking it from you (perhaps he keeps money in the bag and forgot how much he had?). Should he repay the money, yes.
If you loose your backpack, then it's lost. If it's found by someone else it's not stolen. It's just not being used/owned by you anymore. Similar analogies do not scale well, ie a car/house/credit cards. All of those has trackable features, which makes finding their original owner (or the owner finding it) much, much easier.
In the real world they broke the law. At the same time I'm sure the bank has some type of insurance to cover this type of accident. So it just doesn't loose 10 million NZ...
I find the comparisons between this and returning a purse one finds to be interesting, and rather misguided.
When someone finds a purse, they can be pretty sure that the person who lost their purse was not rich, and probably needs everything in that purse quite badly. It's a numbers game - there's not a lot of rich people in the world. Also, a purse (or wallet, etc.) in most cases contains ID which allows an easy way to track down the original owner. The ethical responsibility here is clear: return the purse.
Now, the bank situation - there are a lot of banks these days that have no ethical claim to all of their money. They have committed so many moral wrongs and have not been held accountable by any government that they've got some karma coming to them. Not *all* banks, mind you - there are good banks, with clear rules and ethical behavior.
However, assuming the case of a nasty bank (like BOA, Citi, Whatever the NZ equivalent might be), if a bank makes a mistake and gives someone some money - well, too f*cking bad. It's right time that bank pay for the crimes for which no one else will have them charged.
Technically, the most ethical thing to do would be to contribute all of the money to charities in a way the bank could not track the money back. However, if someone keeps some off the top - I think I understand.
In closing, I wish this couple the absolute best (assuming this bank deserved to lose the money, which is the probability I'd say - I'm too lazy to research them).
I suppose it's human nature to root for the underdog, but I'm still surprised that so many are in support of this theft and are wishing the thieves well, as if they won the lottery instead of seizing an opportunity to commit a major crime. They didn't give any money to charity. They are living out a selfish fantasy of being rich on borrowed time and stolen funds.
Aside from the spontaneity of it, how is this abandonment of ethics in the face of greed ultimately any different than than the behavior of the American Wall Street executives, loan servicers, and Congressional de-regulators that got us into the financial crisis in the first place?
If the bank can't recover that money, who do you think it's going to affect? People. Corporations make the mistakes, but it is always people who bear the losses.
Enjoy the fantasy while it lasts, folks.
Go on, take the money and run.... Fuck 'em.
“What is the crime of robbing a bank compared with the crime of founding one?” -- Bertolt Brecht
"Enjoy the fantasy while it lasts, folks."
you mean like Wall Street for the last few decades?
I suspect that folks who are cheering for the couple experienced an itsy-bitsy moment of pleasure, imagining themselves in those shoes. There is a certain "stickin-it-to-the-man" gleefulness at work there. I'll admit to a brief enjoyment of that sensation.
Just a note on geography.
Rotorua is 80km inland - not exactly "overlooking" the Bay of Plenty.
But British papers like to show pictures of beaches, I guess.
(Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!)
Rotorua is a tourist town famous for its boiling mud pools, geysers, thermal springs. It sits on the edge of Lake Rotorua and smells strongly of sulphur.
The banks did a bad thing, so doing a bad thing is okay with them?
We mock "two wrongs don't make a right" as childish, but yet so many people still can't grasp the basics.
I consider myself quite the lefty, and have a healthy distaste for exploitative corporations.
It seems however that the qualities I despise in the world of finance (greed, sense of entitlement, lack of empathy, an us-vs-them-take-what-you-can-get attitude) are being typified by many of the commenters on this thread.
Be careful not to become what you hate.
The bank "lost" their money in these people's bank account. They "found" it. I see no crime.
#48: Two wrongs don't make a right, yes, but I don't think many people are feeling terribly sympathetic to banks right now.
The bank made a mistake that cost them a bunch of money. I'm not too broken up about it. Nor am I really in any hurry to catch these people.
@ tyger11:
I dunno... life is fine anywhere, as long as you're a freaking millionaire.
@ #41:
If someone finds a purse, they can be certain that the owner isn't rich how? I don't know about you, but I'm so conscious of my financial situation that I've never lost a wallet, or even misplaced one for more than a few minutes. I'll bet the richer you are, the less concerned you are with keeping an eye on your valuables.
And to everyone suggesting that stealing is stealing, that's just not true. I once found a stylish, tissue-adorned shopping bag on the patio of a hamburger joint. I started to pick it up to take it back inside, and just as I did so an angry male voice proclaimed, "What the fuck do think you're doing?! I'll fucking kill you!"
The asshole went on to identify himself as "a Chicago hitman," and told me I was damned lucky to be alive. After he'd finished eating and left, I went back inside to ask the employees what his deal was. They told me he had stolen a Coca-Cola drink tray on the way out, but they'd gotten the license number of his 1979 Mercury Cougar. It was 2003, I think. Long story short, the next time I find anything, I'm going to destroy the contents, sight unseen.
Sometimes being a good person just gives you a headache. Better to be detachedly evil, and take what you can.
The banks have robbed us. It's time we take something back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQl6mfASDq8
"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."
-Thomas Jefferson, 3rd US President, in a letter to John Taylor in 1816
"These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people's money to settle the quarrel."
-Abraham Lincoln, Speech to Illinois legislature, (January 1837); This is "Lincoln's First Reported Speech", found in the Sangamo Journal (28 January 1837) according to McClure's Magazine (March 1896); also in Lincoln's Complete Works (1905) ed. by Nicolay and Hay, Vol. 1, p. 24.
The way I look at it, it is not like finding a purse or backpack. It is more like you are walking down the street and someone hands you a bag of money and says "Here, this is yours." If they later want it back, too bad, they shouldn't have given it away.
Ain't nuthin' gonna stop them now!
@ #35, tyger11:
I looked at your list of countries you'd not consider living in, and I have to say, I fancied quite a lot of them.
Burkina Faso is particularly nice, for example.
I work for a European bank and these people can't keep the money they 'found' in their account. It's not real money, it's basically an accounting error that has to be corrected. I've seen this happen from time to time. Someone mistypes or a batchjob for some companies salary payouts runs twice, etc. But it's all just 1's and 0's created out of thin air.
That's how you do it!! No questions, no statements, just take the money and GO!! The bank screwed up - oh well, life's a bitch, see ya !!
Good for them! Although I DO agree that they should give SOMETHING to charity.
The real criminals in this case are the banks. The four major trading banks in New Zealand - ANZ, BNZ, National and Westpac - are all foreign owned; and every year, on behalf of these foreign owners, they gouge billions of dollars out of New Zealand's economy.
So if a bank loses our money due to dumb investments and unreasonable bonuses to greedy bankers, it's "the evil bankers robbing us blind and let's hang them all", but if the same bank loses our money due to a typing error and a couple of lowlifes with less integrity than a common politician they're hailed as modern Robin Hoods?
Just checking.
#59, so if a lowlife banker loses my money through incredibly bad investments with problems 'no one could foresee' and then gets a whopping huge bonus and takes it and runs with it, that's okay, right? 'Cause the banker is entitled to the money?
Shit, I would never take the money 'cause I know the law and all the cops are on the side of the power & money crowd, but I would speak with a lawyer about keeping as much of it as I could.
So you walk into a jewellery store to pick up a diamond ring you've already paid for. It's worth $10,900. You want to see it before you take it from the store, to make sure it's what you wanted. The employee of the store goes to get your ring, but accidentally hands you a ring worth $10,000,000 and doesn't notice the error. You know perfectly well it isn't the ring you paid for, but you take it anyway and leave, and in fact leave the country so as not to get caught. The store is now out a huge amount of money, which will have to come from somewhere--you if you get caught, the other customers (through the raising of prices) if you don't. The person who made a simple, honest mistake will be severely punished for it because of your dishonesty.
Now tell me how in any meaningful way this is different from what the New Zealand couple did.
@Forkboy:
They can't keep the money by law because the banks pretty much made the law.
The money in my account is mine. If the bank puts money in there then I can take it out. The couple didn't steal or find anything, the money had their name on it.
The banks obviously would disagree in ways the rest of us probably won't understand. They probably think of accounts as something other than the digital equivilant of a hole in the wall with money in it. But they believe what's convenient for them.
@Pyramus:
I beg along with the poster above, no more metaphors!
Also, saying a company taking a loss will result in higher prices is only true in a monopoly. You think a business can just increase its prices, saying 'oh we made a mistake and lost some money recently', and its customers will still buy from them?
@ Forkboy:
"I work for a European bank and these people can't keep the money they 'found' in their account. It's not real money, it's basically an accounting error that has to be corrected."
I wonder why they're wanted by Interpol, then. If a huge sum of money shows up in my account, and I decide to funnel the money offshore, to a bank that refuses to cooperate with the originating bank, it's real money. Sorry.
I really, really hope they get away and have wonderful, cash-filled lives. China is as good a place as any. And it's not cheering for the underdog, either. These guys are winning so far, and being that they've fled to China, they're the obvious pick. Go team!
Read the words
On my ATM slip, it said
We’re all mutha uckas
And we’re uckin’ with your shi-
Rotorua doesn't overlook the Bay of Plenty - it is inland and sits on Lake Rotorua. It does overlook some awesome mud pits.
I wish them well and if I ran into them I'd help them out if I was able. May they live long, happy, joyous lives on their free money.
Reminds me of that guy who signed the back of one of those promotional 'non-negotiable' checks for $50K for a lark.. and it got credited to his bank account. Basically after a month or so, he consulted a lawyer, and then drew a cashier's check for the exact amount and put it in a safety deposit at the bank.
Legally at that point the money was his, but once he got the letter of apology or something he let them have the check, and thusly resolving the error.
Now he makes more telling his tale to a stage audience. No such happy ending here predicted..
You can debate the morals and the wrongs and the rights all day long, the fact of the matter is stealing is wrong under and circumstance.
However I do offer a counter point, imagine if the scenario was reversed, where the bank received a 'bonus' 10 million dollars by human error. How likely is the bank to give it back without some kind of court forcing them to? How likely is the bank to even report it unless someone complains? I understand the idea that we're supposed to be better than them, but to ask for any sympathy towards banks is laughable. Face it, if you got 10 million extra dollars into your account and you knew how the system worked you'd take the money and run too, because that's exactly what capitalism encourages you to do. Never again would I have to sit at a desk for 8 hours just to provide a roof over my head and food for my stomach, who cares if you're in a country like cuba where you might not have the rights to free speech, you have enough money to buy your rights back. Money talks, and I'm not blaming the couple for at least trying, worst case scenario you get locked in a prison for a few years (which in New Zeland is like a walk in a park for non-violent offenders), they provide all the basic necessities for you, and you don't have to go to work anymore. :D
stealing is taking that which is not freely given. Or earned. On behalf of my share of that which has been taken from me by the banking industry, I hereby give my blessing to these people.
On the anniversary of the day Bonnie and Clyde were shot down, I can only say...
Go, kids, Go, Go Go!