Scouts training to fight immigrants and terrorists
Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More"United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!" screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued...
The Explorers program, a coeducational affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence -- an intense ratcheting up of one of the group's longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters...
Their hearts pounding, Explorers moved down alleys where there were hidden paper targets of people pointing guns, and made split-second decisions about when to shoot. In rescuing hostages from a bus taken over by terrorists, a baby-faced young girl screamed, "Separate your feet!" as she moved to handcuff her suspect.
In a competition in Arizona that he did not oversee, Deputy Lowenthal said, one role-player wore traditional Arab dress. "If we're looking at 9/11 and what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like," he said, "then maybe your role-player would look like that. I don't know, would you call that politically incorrect?"
(Image: Todd Krainin for The New York Times)
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The first scouting organization was founded in 1907 by a British general, a veteran of the Boer wars, a proto-fascist pedophile who made no secret of the paramilitary visions he had of his boy scouts. not too much has changed
Fuck the Boy Scouts anyway. Buncha intolerant bastards.
uh.... what the fuck, over?
No. It would just be politically incorrect if they mentioned that they're also training kids to target Mexicans, Jews and gays...
...because I'd bet my left arm that that's part of it, too.
Yeah, but a lot of gay kids still end up in the scouts - it's sort of like the military in more ways than one apparently.
Me, I was doing mainframe programming as a kid in the Explorers (an IT focused chapter) in the days when mainframes still beat the pants off of anything you could get in a home computer.
OMG
Training of 13/14-year olds
"which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting"
combined with
"The law enforcement programs are highly decentralized, and each post is run in a way that reflects the culture of its sponsoring agency and region"
Liberia, Nazi Germany, anyone?
Why does this bring the Hitler Youth to mind?
Next, they're sending bus full of Scouts to conquer Mexico.
I'm posting this on behalf of my daughter, a UK explorer scout, who would want you to know there's no paramilitary angle in UK scouting and no intolerance of gay people either.
Griff
As long as they keep the gays and the brown people out, the terrorists haven't won!
No, I was just joshin'. I was a boy scout and our leader, a fantastic guy who gave up all of his personal time to work with the troop, was as gay as...well you can fill that in.
Can anyone explain to me why the BSA are still able to use public buildings?
#3, I second that, especially with the photo (which I'm sure was chosen for that).
In a competition in Arizona that he did not oversee, Deputy Lowenthal said, one role-player wore traditional Arab dress. "If we're looking at 9/11 and what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like," he said, "then maybe your role-player would look like that. I don't know, would you call that politically incorrect?" In a competition in Arizona that he did not oversee, Deputy Lowenthal said, one role-player wore traditional Arab dress. "If we're looking at 9/11 and what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like," he said, "then maybe your role-player would look like that. I don't know, would you call that politically incorrect?"
I call that, "No Arab kids allowed," which would most decidedly be RACIST.
Can we please retire the phrase "politically correct" already? Nobody who uses it as an argument wants to do anything other than use it as an excuse to be an asshole.
The obnoxious thing about all this is that Explorer Scouts will let adults run job training in a bunch of different fields. But only wackos seem to want to volunteer their time with poor/underprivileged/rural youth.
It's too bad normal people seem to have better things to do than helping the youth of America get job training skills. It's also too bad that the story doesn't focus on medical training or fire fighting Explorer posts, which might show how valuable such hands on training is.
When I was 14 my mom and I (I'm a girl fwiw) looked into starting a post and there were sort of guidelines you could get from them for filmmaking (equipment was too expensive), archeology, environmentalism and a bunch of other more "normal" activities.
The people in this article are crazies and they are using an established inroad to make more crazies like them. But that doesn't mean the whole program is messed up, which is really how the article reads. Job training or the military is really the only way out or the only jobs available for many kids in this country, and that's just sad.
It was an amusingly deadpan article, but I'm sure they knew people would be creeped out by it. I am. Kids being trained and indoctrinated like soldiers (not that the youngest soldiers aren't basically kids, themselves), to fight the axis of evil of illegal immigration, marijuana, and that great, vague menace, "terrorism." Neat!
On the other hand, I won't deny that I would have found that fun as a teenage boy. But I guess that's part of what makes it unnerving.
Yeah! Finally, someone is going to give kids guns and tell them to shoot people who dress in traditional Arabic dress.
That'll stop those dang terrorists.
I've seen them hanging around near my house with cameras. They've been photographing things - and we all know what that leads to. Dope smoking, heroin, crack cocaine, child prostitution and voting for conservatives (check out Iran!).
Have I missed anything?
They need an anthem, I suggest Tomorrow Belongs the Me.
In that clip, take a good look at the uniform he's wearing. The HJ appropriated much from the Boy Scouts.
"what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like"
Have any of these douches even left their county, much less their country? How do they know what a Middle Eastern terrorist would be like? Many Arabs are very light-skinned (and don't exactly walk around the US or their own countries in dishdashes, dashikis and turbans) but we brown-skinned Indians are the ones who get called Osama or Terrorist.
And, the odds are higher of one of their own shooting up a Unitarian church in the name of god, unborn babies and apple pie.
Then again, a couple of my friends are troop leaders and very much against crap like this.
From TFA: “I like shooting them,” Cathy said. “I like the sound they make. It gets me excited.”
Never before has the sound of an ACLU lawyer's head hitting his desk been captured with greater clarity.
First a Christian Evangelical military. Now a Christian Evangelical Hitler youth program. Great. How much does it cost to move to Sweden?
This was one of the things I hated about the Explorers. I have no idea why they are associated with Scouting, but they are.
Not that I don't have issues with Scouting...I had an atheist friend who was removed because he didn't like the Duty To God part of the oath. I didn't like the fact that my family was threatened with lawsuits as opposed to getting rid of the pedo scout master. I can't stand the fact that small minded bigots don't understand the difference between gay and pedophile and thus restrict otherwise great people to their ranks. And I didn't like getting my Eagle taken away because I stood up against one of those bigots during my Eagle project when the disabled 'patriot' we were helping (at his request) started making racist comments about a Puerto Rican scout.
But other than that, I *LOVED* the scouts! When I have kids, they will be in this organization, and I hope I teach them well enough to get kicked out the same as I did!
I was a boy scout for most of my youth, from a tiger cub on through high school. By the time I left for college I was a a junior assistant scout master and a member of the Order of the Arrow service society. I enjoyed getting outdoors more than anything, and being in the scouts gave me a lot of skills I wouldn't otherwise have.
But I think most of what you get out of it has little to do with what you put in, but rather the environment of the troop. I grew up in an affluent, liberal area. Yeah, we had a few leaders who liked to punish bad behavior with enforced pushups or laps or whatever, but the other adult leaders quickly took care of those folks, often forcing them to leave. I know the troop I was in has changed leadership since I was in it, but I hope nothing like this ever happens in it.
I can't say this story surprises me though. The Scouts have fallen increasingly under the conservative Church of Latter Day Saints these days, and the national organization is something I wouldn't touch with a ten foot long pole.
When I have a son or a daughter, I'll look for somewhere else to foster the skills that I find so valuable.
I was a Scout for eight years. My father earned his Eagle when he was 15, and is still involved with my former troop as an Assistant Scoutmaster. I had nothing but positive experiences with Scouting, but this kind of blind ignorance on the part of the BSA, not to mention their ongoing issues with gay Scouts and leaders, makes me sick to my stomach. These weren't issues I was conscious of as a teenager, but now I can't see how I could allow my future kids to participate in Scouts in good conscience. The fact that BSA leadership doesn't recognize the parallels with the HJ, etc., and thinks it's acceptable to indoctrinate impressionable kids in this fashion, is mind-boggling. Then again, I don't suppose it's any more outlandish than what goes in many schools and fundamentalist Christian summer camps.
Houston Bay Area Data Processing Explorer Post 9225 Reprazent! Massive overlap with the gang I played Dungeons and Dragons with. At play among the PDP-11s and honking big disk drives.
I remember there was a Law Enforcement Explorer Post but that didn't seem as much fun.
Someone really needs to rethink this, though. They're stressing the fun, gun-waving, terrorist-waterboarding aspect and not the mind-numbingly boring part of making sure you're chasing the right guy and not some victim of a grudge or a glitch.
For the education of Grahamers2002 Sweden like Germany has a largish, rather public, and active Nazi community with elected political representation. Swedish society in general continues it's love-fest with the more mundane aspects of solid fascism although it's very rarely called that these days as a part of just about every "civilized" nation. They fell in love with that even before being a partial de facto ally to Germany in WWII.
Just saying you might want to rethink your destination, not that you wouldn't suffer from a massive culture shock anyway unless hiding in a bubble of your choice.
Usually the grass only looks greener because the red and blue wavelengths are obscured by ignorance.
@7: Shows how ignorant they are. The general garb Mideastern men are wearing is a button down shirt and trousers/jeans (polo shirt and T-shirt for younger people). And I really doubt terrorists would run around in a caftan or djellaba doing evil terrorist things in the USA. I doubt they would run around in a caftan or djellaba.
Anyway the whole thing sounds as dumb as the Communist scare of the last century.
Can I just point out that, in most of the rest of the world, the Scouting movement is a really positive opportunity for young people? In UK Scouting it's fine to be a scout or leader and gay - I found this on the UK scouting site:
It's OK to be an adult in Scouting and be gay!Throughout the Association there are adults in Scouting who are gay, lesbian or bisexual. Some are open about their sexual orientation others not,either way it is a personal choice which is totally acceptable. A leader’s sexual orientation has no bearing on their suitability to fulfil a role in Scouting.
Keep in mind that the age for Explorers is from 14 to 20.
Explorer posts are different than Boy Scout Troops. There is a completely different mentality and they are geared toward whatever speciality that Post is. These kids appear to be Police Explorers.
I'm not sure I would describe what is essentially a vo-tech program for late teens and young adults wanting to be be police officers as "Hitler Youth"
But what would I know? I was just an Eagle Scout.
Word verification: diseased who
Wow, what a lot of really chilling things in this article, from the more-realistic-than-they-need-to-be tac vests the kids are wearing to this:
Baden-Powell created the Scouting program for boys as an alternative to their using the manual for real army scouts that he'd published. Is this what it's come around to? Also, of course, HomophobiaFail and the sexual harassment/exploitation of female Explorers. Not encouraging.
What is this? This is strange. I mean...
I really don't know what to say.
Really?
Sorry, but you're reading way too much into this.
The fact is, most members of Al-Queda are Arab Muslims.
And a terrorist is far-and-away most likely to be an Arab.
Let me say that again -- if you were to take a random sampling of a "terrorist" (Let's agree that a terrorist is someone who does evil shit for vaguely ideological reasons, like blowing up schools, mosques, ramming buses into orphanages, and generally being a major-league asshole)
Well, that person would be a darker-skinned Arab Muslim!
Reality can't be racist!
Reality just is, and you can live in your own PC fantasy world but it wont change a damn thing.
Just like most KKK members are likely to be Caucasian.
What if there was a looming threat from a KKK-based terrorist group?
Would you suspect black people equally?
Something tells me the Caucasian Anglos are far more likely to be members...
If you really want someone to focus your rage-ray at, perhaps you should be angry at some Arabs for perpetuating negative racial stereotypes!
Or maybe you can join in the protest against this guy:
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38968
I live in Bed-Stuy, and I see racist stereotypes every day.
I see little black kids stealing from Korean-owned bodegas and getting chased out with brooms.
I see Italian pizza-shop employees acting like macho Italian stereotypes.
The laundromat I drop my laundry off at is run by Chinese immigrants, and there are hilarious engrish signs everywhere "No dry if not wash here" and "If nothing you have to do, no do here", or my very favorite stenciled on the ally behind their building "NO PEE ON WALL"
Are any of these very real observations of mine racist?
As long as I don't pre-judge people or treat people unfairly, I think I'm fine.
But it would be denying reality not to admit that there is often a kernel of truth in stereotypes.
It's called racial profiling. I suggest you look it up. It causes many more incidents of mistaken over-reaction, especially within the country, than bad guys to be caught (except in the movies.) Where would any of us be of the country had not been a nation of immigrants?
prentiz, that's really refreshing. I wish the US Scouts would get that attitude.
dequeued, I think you're falling into a trap there. The media tends to not call white people terrorists when they do bad things because they're white. So it's a circular definition: only Arabs are terrorists because terrorists are Arab. When an Anglo person kills six people at a church, do they call him a terrorist? No. When an Asian person kills 32 people at a university, do they call him a terrorist? No. But when an Arab person kills people it's terrorism.
I hit submit too soon: I did not mean to imply that I agreed with that definition. I do not.
Surely "dib dib dib" means something in Farsi. Probably "Predator overhead, lower your hands or your children will see your guts sprayed across the bazaar".
ffs. This is such a revolting distortion of DBP's original objectives, this creation of stormtroopers. These aren't scouts in any sense of the word. Already the modern-day scout is subject to a more fantastical brain-washing than deserves description, but this is taking the piss. I used to be proud to be a scout, but please, this is such a load of silly wank. Guns! I could barely tie a bowline.
May this band of merry hell-makers be ejected forthwith from the movement. Let them join the army cadets (fine people that they are). But not the scouts.
I smell the presence of Xe. Halliburton. Cheney. And Bush (what a pussy).
Al'Q terrorists don't dress in traditional clothing. They are professional operatives. They blend in.
Anyone know an alternative to the BSA that teaches wilderness orienteering, survival, and leadership skills to children without the right wing political indoctrination?
... No not so much Hitler Youth. Hitler Youth was more along the lines of Nashi (Ours) in Russia today. More along the lines of a teenage sex camp where sex and the state were mixed. ... Nazi meet and greets made a lot of use porn in much the same way we sell soap on TV. For the special forces soldiers there was meth in pill form. But anyway, this is not Hitler Youth
It's much more along the lines of the old Soviet Komsomol and DOSAFF. Komsomol/DOSAFF was a full frontal paramilitary organization where the arms training started ~14. Weapons training, physical fitness and pre-placement into the Soviet military. Amazing how a private organization has become of its own free will a mirror of the Soviet version of the old BSA.
Welcome to the USSA. The United Secure States of America.
-Kilroy-
@dculberson
I agree that anyone who commits an act of terrorism is a terrorist.
And, in-fact, most acts of terrorism in America have not been carried out by Muslims.
(Although, numerically, Muslim terrorists have killed the most Americans with 9/11)
That said, in the whole world, by far, most terrorist and terrorist supporters are Muslim Arabs -- What percentage of the population of Pakistan or Afghanistan would gun you down if given the chance?
I don't want to debate about the underlying causes, as interesting a discussion as that would be, I'm just saying we should acknowledge reality, and not delude ourselves with what we would like reality to be.
Should we profile? No!
But, if you're portraying a terrorist in a training exercise, or a tv show, portraying them as a Muslim Arab is very accurate.
And it isn't some sort of racist statement, it's just realistic.
I love seeing the gymnastics that Hollywood goes through when they dramatize terrorists.
They're almost always neo-nazis, or some other very unlikely group.
@#14 - my mother was my brother's troop leader for a while and she found a great loophole to the Duty to God part - she lied.
The sad thing is that as police departments and other agencies have become more militarised this is probably now appropriate "preparation" for a career in one of these units.
How long till one of these scouts takes a weapon to high school and picks off the kids who are dressed incorrectly or who speak the wrong language?
I find this creepy also, but to all those making HJ comparisons I will argue that there is one big and vital difference. The government isn't forcing all American children into the program, it is a completely voluntary program.
Reality is:
AQ is a Saudi Arabian movement. Not Arab, but specifically Saudi. So go get yourself some Saudis.
What, you can't? They bought you a long time ago? Go fill up your car again, realist, and fund the real Arab terrorists.
That's accuracy.
Right now, you're shooting the wrong people. Not that you'll notice, being accurate and all.
Do I hear someone whisper "Terror Camps on US soil" ?
How many years in jail did you get for attending one?
I've sent the story along to a former Scouting national board member I happen to be closely related to.
He's career Navy, and HATES this sort of thing.
@ #3
I have been noticing, that alot of things that nazis were working on are slowly surfacing in united states since the war ended. Could it be because majority of the intellect from germany has been migrated to work for us government?
Once again I repeat. We need bigger and better funded programs to get our kids out into the world. By scouting, exchange student programs, whatever. America has an isolationisim problem that we need to break. please send your kids out to see the world its not as dangerous as everyone thinks.
~Y
Late post here but still this is a perversion of the scouts,,,back when I was a scout we met in the basement of the local Library and got high. That is scouting, no guns just bongs!
@11: Even worse: not only to ignoramuses (like #22) go after South Asians because they "look like A-rabs", the bigotted twits especially go after the Sikhs, because of the turbans. As I understand it, the Sikh religion preaches defending against religious intolerance, no matter what who or what religion. In my mind, using intolerance to attack someone whose belief system preaches against intolerance is particularly vile.
Not that the bigotry hurled against Desis is any better.
(I once saw someone from waaaaay southern India get mistaken for African-American by some ignorant Conecticuit WASPs. They ignored his facial features, his accent, and latched onto one thing: skin color. Inappropriate Pattern-Matching, anyone?)
-jpw
Right, I saw that on TV. Kiefer Sutherland said so.
Oh, that's fiction?
Well you must have some more "realistic" source then.
Enumerating every act of violence, against large groups of civilians, carried out for political reasons, in the whole world. And tallying up the names, ethnicities, and religious beliefs of all the alleged perpetrators. And summing up a specific number which is clearly "by far" larger than all the others, and happens to be Arab. And Muslim.
Right.
Where are their brown shirts?
@decius Anyone know an alternative to the BSA that teaches wilderness orienteering, survival, and leadership skills to children without the right wing political indoctrination?
In the UK I would suggest the Woodcraft Folk http://www.woodcraft.org.uk/ if you could cope with it being an offshoot of the cooperative movement and thus rather left-wing. I am not sure if there is any US equivalent.
Gah I went through Scouts from Bobcat to Eagle. My troop was generally more interested in playing spades, basketball, travel, and camping than HOMELAND SECURITY MISSION.
Jeeze, I was lucky to be in a troop run by educators, and not uber-church related. Hell, half of our kids were either children of illegals, or illegals themselves.
We went across the border for enchiladas in Big Bend. You can't do that anymore. Screw this.
By the way, there's nothing wrong with that girl liking guns. I think there are better ways to get into that activity though...
#36 demidan - scouting is too broad to say "no guns". I took shotgun and rifle badges two times each, just for fun. Some troops that don't get out of the city much might not ever mess with guns, but my troop went all over the place, and shooting was definitely a part of it.
Now...we were shooting target practice and clay pigeons, not this para-military crap!
I still really love the idea that the people who threaten the well being of the country (and/or planes) are going to cause a fuss/dress distinctively/draw any attention at all to themselves. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that attention = bad when you're trying to covertly do illegal things. Therefore, we should encourage people to pay more attention to those who are following the rules and never complaining.
I loved being a Scout. Learned a lot of useful skills. Got to go on some fun outdoor trips I might never have gone on otherwise. Made it all the way to Eagle.
Many of our leaders were war veterans. The only lessons they taught us about the military were things like: "If you should find yourself in the Army, never volunteer for anything; Be a stealth recruit." or "If it looks like you'll be sent to a war zone, do anything you can to avoid the front lines -- if you're smart enough, you can nearly always find a way to avoid being killed."
This turn of events disturbs me quite a bit.
There should be an "age of consent" for being taught how to gun people down. Somewhat older than 14, I should say.
The trick is to find out who the troop or pack is chartered to - ideally you want "parent chartered" (answers only to its own active members) or some relatively liberal organization whose values you can get behind (such as certain congregations of certain church denominations). I know lots of people involved in scouting (including me, and my sons) who are completely disgusted with the bullshit at the national level, but enthusiastic about scouting. It's a complicated headspace, we worry about enabling the gay-bashing jerks upstream, but many of us adult scouters remember scouting from the days before the headquarters moved to Texas and the great times we had with our own dads, and the useful lessons and habits of personal responsibility we learned. I want that for my sons and I'm not going to let those yahoos upstairs ruin it for us. We might even change it from the inside, and the picture isn't completely bleak for that: you have guys like Scott Oki actively working on social issues in BSA at the national level. The Mormons and right wing gun nuts haven't completely won yet, and scouting is too important to let go without a fight.
That said, I really don't blame folks who look at me like I have three heads when I say my family is in Scouting. I was nervous going in, but the people I know in scouting are completely, totally cool.
@dequeued
You are not good at math. You went directly from asserting that muslim arabs are more likely to be terrorists or terrorist supporters to asserting that Pakistanis/Afghanis are more likely to gun you down.
And what exactly is a "terrorist supporter"?
Setting aside the insanity of inculcating children into anti-terrorist and anti-immigrant paranoia, the relevant practical question should be what would be the likely appearance of terrorists *that these children are likely to encounter*. The answer is that the terrorists these kids are most likely to encounter will be caucasian, right-wing extremists like Tim McVeigh. Or probably their parents.
I have never been to Pakistan or Afghanistan and I suspect neither have you, but I know people from both countries living in the United States and the notion that they are statistically more likely to harm me or anyone else is ridiculous. It is so ridiculous that it boggles my mind that I even feel like I needed to type those words.
You have leaped from the undeniable truth that cultures can have unique identifying characteristics to the conclusion that terrorism is a unique characteristic of muslim arabs.
You also appear to be wholly ignorant that Afghanis and Pakistanis are not generally Arab (though some may be).
Please educate yourself and then rethink your basic assumptions and logic.
@deqeued
That said, in the whole world, by far, most terrorist and terrorist supporters are Muslim Arabs -- What percentage of the population of Pakistan or Afghanistan would gun you down if given the chance?
What percentage of the population of Pakistan or Afghanistan are Arabs?
Answer: Not many.
Jessus, and they ousted my dad as our local scout leader for making an obstacle course.
Careful answering that "politically incorrect" question. For neocons, the question "Do you think that's politically incorrect?" is equal to, "Do you want to take my rights away?"
#26 - This is hardly new. The soviets were concerned about the scouts for years - and modeled their own program based on it.
It was a fair bit more controlled though :)
Doesn't matter who runs it - if you're looking to identify a skilled group of fit youngsters to recruit into the military, a program like this is great - especially if it's run by former soldiers.
That all said, it really makes me wonder why the hell they are playing border idiot.
Godwin be damned.
Nice Nazi Youth program you got there. Baden-Powell might have had some anachronistic views, but there is no way he would have approved of this shit.
Getting past the bizarre nature of this program and its questionable motives, do they really need to practice search techniques on guys dressed as Arab? I mean, does that really improve their skills? Or does it just subtly mesh the ideas of "Muslim" and "Terrorist" in these young minds?
A twlhd's a twlhd, right?
/self-disemvowelled harsh sarcasm to point out how it's really just thinly veiled racism.
Phikus, I wouldn't call it *thinly veiled*, myself. Just plain racism.
Hey, here's a question for you "Arabs-are-more-likely-to-be-terrorists" folks: if you're in Ireland, is a terrorist more likely to be Arab?
[Actually, he's more likely to be a Member of Parliament.]
The making of the next children's crusade?
Stranger shit keeps happening.
Is this part of Obusma's pledge for a domestic force as well funded as the military?
Is this part of the new "Volunteerism" legislation?
Oh well, I was a Boy Scout and I always thought there was something a bit paramilitary about them.
#67: Is this part of Obusma's pledge for a domestic force as well funded as the military?
NO, Thebes, it isn't.
Misinterpretation about a "domestic" force aside . . . the Boy Scouts are not a government organization.
Forget the terrorist aspect. Every one of those kids is Hispanic and they're training to be junior Border Patrol agents. Does nobody see the irony in the we-got-in-now-slam-the-door philosophy behind that? They're essentially equating braceros with Al-Qaida.
dequeued,
Less than 15% of Muslims are Arabs. It's a fact.
Second biggest terrorist in US history was Timothy McVeigh. Clearly Oklahoma should be detaining New Yorkers at the border.
@dequeued
"That said, in the whole world, by far, most terrorist and terrorist supporters are Muslim Arabs"
See this: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html
Note that all 'terrorist' organizations listed included estimated numbers. Note that for organisations with known number, the largest groups are all non-Mulism, non-Arab groups. Also note that the totals are larger than the totals for all other groups combined. This is from the US State Department.
I find it funny how more than one comment here is so "concerned" about the LDS "taking over scouting".
If it weren't for the LDS church their probably wouldn't be any scouting program at all! (some of you are probably wishing that would happen).
I am an Eagle Scout, LDS member.. and I can tell you, the most you have to worry about from LDS scouts is that they can kick most your asses in Basketball (as this is all they do every time they get together)
I hated basketball and the only reason I stuck with scouting was from working in the Sierra Mountains as a staff member at a BSA summer camp from when I was 12 till I was 18. I learned more about life, life saving, hard work, survival, and the environment than any other time in my life. I also was privy to plenty of other things going on in the BSA from drug use (lots of it), gay leaders (some that were in porno films!) alcoholism.. etc. On top of all this I even learned how to tie knots! YAY!
Most of scouting has been urbanized since the 1970's and the qualifications of some merit badges has become so weak that it is embarrassing. You almost don't even have to go camping to get the camping merit badge!
I find it sad now (as a music teacher) when I go to kids houses and they are sitting in front of a wide screen tv playing halo and talking on their headsets to their friends playing with them who live 3 HOUSES DOWN! I may sound like an old fuddy duddy.. but I am only 30 yrs old.. and seeing kids like that scares the shit out of me. Most of these kids don't even know how to run a lawn mower.. it really is sad.
Point being... there are some really good reasons to support scouting and to get your kids out of the house.
I highly recommend even looking into some of the "traditional scouting" groups:
http://www.inquiry.net/traditional/index.htm
Or just read the dangerous book for boys.. that is more akin to the original Boy scout manual than what the BSA uses now...
Random side note:
My staff member explorer posts would wear rainbow shoulder rings in protest to the council about whatever we felt like protesting.. I still wear them to Courts of Honor and tell people I am a "Gay Scoutmaster".. HAHA.. you should see their faces freak out!... (no, I am not gay)
Ugh. Racial profiling IS racist.
Why is STATE-SPONSORED terrorism kosher for so many people? Just because the U.S. and Israel (via U.S. support) have the most sophisticated weapons from F-16s, Apache helicopter gunships -- including their cancer-causing D.U. projectiles/tanks and illegal white-phosphorus bombs -- does not make their actions any less immoral or heinous! Look at number victims on the'terrorist'side. State-sponsored terrorism has literally murdered more than a few MILLION Arabs.
BTW, the Girl Scouts of America would not let my sister join 25 years ago because of her Arab/Islamic name, despite being half-German and having fair-skin and blue eyes in "liberal" Los Angeles.
Question to #65 "Hey, here's a question for you "Arabs-are-more-likely-to-be-terrorists" folks: if you're in Ireland, is a terrorist more likely to be Arab? [Actually, he's more likely to be a Member of Parliament.]"
WHAT? I don't understand??
But bringing Ireland in, the biggest terrorist supporters during that time were from the USA. That is mostly where the IRA got its (legal) funding.
"For most young Germans, National Socialism did not mean dictatorship, censorship, and repression; it meant freedom and adventure. They saw Nazism as a natural extension of the youth movement, as an antiaging regimen for body and man. By 1935, the twenty- to thirty-year-olds who set the tone for the party rank and file viewed with open contempt those who advocated caution. They considered themselves men of action with no time for petty, individual concerns. 'The philistines may fret,' they mocked, 'but tomorrow belongs to us.'
Götz Aly, Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War and the Nazi Welfare State
sorry - to #64
Scouting in the UK always makes me think of Kevin in Lair of the White Worm.
Given dequed's ignorant response (teh fact that he/she doesn't know that Af/Pak peoples are not Arabs), makes me wonder if he/she wasn't busy after 9/11 looking out for those suspicious turban-wearing Ayrabs, aka Sikhs, who are neither Arab nor Muslim, yet caught much shit, even killed, due to stupidity like this.
#7 nailed it. Say, one of those little goose-steppers could be the next pope!
The best part is the claim that the 9/11 terrorists might have been in traditional arab dress. It's plain old xenophobia, nothing more. Why else would they care about the border with Mexico, where 0 terrorists have come from?
NYT: "Imperial County, in Southern California, is the poorest in the state, and the local economy revolves largely around the criminal justice system."
Yeah, the 'Arab-dress' stuff is funky, but it's basically teens doing something that may get them a job. Don't know why poor kids trying to better themselves - given their situation and location - gives some of you the vapors.
So, let me see if I've got this straight.
Exposure to violent video games will turn kids into serial killers, but training them with weapons and having them practice planning and carrying out armed assaults on people in real life is perfectly okay?
Holy crap, people are overreacting. This isn't HJ stuff, it's one post probably crossing the line.
I was in an Explorer program, in fact, it was the one that caused Explorers to no longer be directly part of the BSA. "Thanks" to this guy. Anyhow, because of that lawsuit, Explorers don't have to pledge to believe in Gd, and supposedly welcomes gay kids and staff.
My post was about learning the stuff that cops do like evidence gathering, not shooting people or blasting hippies with beanbags. Oh, and directing traffic during the town festival. Hardly the paramilitary neo-fascist organisation half you people are making it out to be.
When I think back on being in the bsa I remember it fondly. I have no doubt as a 13 year old I would've been 100% up for something like this. In fact I think that's what disturbs me the most about it.
The extreme right turn the bsa has taken is sad. I was a bisexual, atheist boy scout. I wonder if today's bsa would try and take back my pinewood derby trophy. Over my dead body... my dad worked really hard on that thing!
@ #71 posted by Manooshi
D.U. projectiles are made of depleted uranium. it is not radioactive and only about as toxic as lead. even if it were carcinogenic there is still the fact that being hit with one is deadly and the likelyhood of living long enough to get cancer is almost nil. White phosphorus, while horrific, is not as illegal as you think it is. the Hague convention forbids the firebombing of civilian targets.