Woman sues over child's toys landing in her yard
You might remember delightful Edna Jester, 89, of Blue Ash, Ohio who was arrested in October for refusing to return a neighbor kids' football that fell in her yard. According to the Associated Press, Jester is suing the young man's parents "claiming she has suffered emotional distress because footballs and other playthings belonging to her next-door neighbors keep landing in her yard." "89-year-old arrested for keeping ball sues family"
the latest
latest episodes
If those toys include lawn darts then she may have a point. Otherwise she's just giving cranky old people a bad name.
Don't get me wrong — I look forward to being an old coot who yells at the neighborhood kids to get the hell off my lawn — but this woman is taking this way too far, and I hope the parents sue her for the amount of their lawyer fees after this frivolous lawsuit is dismissed.
They better do it soon, though — she's 89.
we have a lady down the street that is like that and she isn't OLD LOL... the kids can't even ride their bikes past her house on the road without her flipping out on them...
we need a new term, something to name those who uphold the Rule of Law and support justice in society. "lawyers" is so befouled it should be left behind for those exemplified by whatever took this case for the plaintiff. I reckon of the approximately million law-trade workers in the USA, there must be about twelve or so "non-lawyers". They deserve a clean title.
Grand Torino. ; )
I'd venture that arresting an eighty-nine year old woman for refusing to return a football is taking it way too far, but as they've already crossed that threshold, all bets are off.
What do you expect her to do when you call the cops on her and have her arrested?
Can I sue my jerk of a neighbour who rides up and down the street 25 times in 15 minutes on his LOUD motorbike grinning because he knows it annoys? I'd rather have more kids throwing stuff.
seriously, how do cases like this NOT get thrown out?
Can this be true: an 89 year old woman was ARRESTED for not returning a football that landed in her yard? Arrested. 89 years old. I for one am glad that America is now such a safe place that the jack-booted officers of law enforcement have nothing better to do other than throwing octogenarians into the slammer when they refuse to pacify foul-mouthed hooligans.
Good thing Mr. Burns got 'the hounds' in the divorce settlement.
Jeezus, Pilcrow.
Do you have a hidden stash of balls in your basement, too?
If you read the OTHER FA (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081020/NEWS01/310200028), you'll see that this isn't just some sweet little old lady being victimised by overprotective parents.
This is the nasty foul old biddy down the street who terrorises the entire neighborhood.
They have been to her house repeatedly, TRIED to give her a citation (but she wouldn't sign for it), and threatened to arrest her if she didn't give back the damned ball, but she continued to be a bitch.
Being old gives you some rights, but not the right to be an asshole.
She and the french-fry witch from Florida deserve to be roommates.
When I was growing up, our local cranky old lady called the cops because we were playing with cap guns, complaining that they sounded just like the real thing.
As to her claims of distress caused by toys... she's 89. At that point, being hit by a nerf football could be fatal. And there is a distinct subset of old people who get inordinately stressed out by things - which can be a legitimate health risk. So, silly as it sounds, she may be able to make a good case for it.
#8 - I rather doubt anyone was thrown into jail, handcuffed, or even saw the inside of a police cruiser. About the only thing a cop has to do to arrest you is read you your rights.
Well, she's learned her lesson, as taught to her by her neighbors and the police, and she's learned it well: when you have a problem, use legal means to resolve them. While this is arguably a frivolous lawsuit, it's been demonstrated that simpler methods of resolving the conflict, i.e. not returning the football, are not acceptable. What alternatives does she have?
The neighbors brought this on themselves by bringing in the police when they could have left well enough alone. If, because of expenses related to the lawsuit, the neighbors can no longer afford to keep their five kids supplied with footballs, the problem will have been solved for once and for all.
(Yes, I have unresolved issues with jocks, dating back to my childhood.)
Notice the family next door has FIVE kids. If I lived next door, I'd demand to be arrested periodically if only for some peace and quiet down at the jail.
#11 anonymous. You still can't have your frisbee back until you learn proper manners and apologize.
I sympathize with Janet's point above. My girlfriend just moved away from living next door to a church day-care center (20+ kids). It drove us crazy, too!
@Dameon
You know, the article itself mentions whether or not Edna was taken to the police station. Why not read it?
At any rate, I suspect what is happening here is a reoccurring problem. At this point, footballs and other toys are probably "accidentally" going over the fence just to get a rise out of Edna. I mean, how many times did you lose *multiple* toys over a fence when you were young?
It doesn't sound like either party has handled things particularly well to get this point.
Edna's probably grumpy, the neighbors don't control their kids, it sounds all this could have been prevented if both parties were more friendly, reasonable, neighbors. Why not let the kids get their own damn ball?
Isn't there a community ombudsman or something? People (even the cranky ones) need some recourse when they feel violated. Without an objective mediator, people with a bone to pick just get crazier and crazier.
I think the people are getting what they deserve. They had an old (and maybe crazy) lady arrested over a football. It what? A $20 item? Maybe this will teach them not to ever bring the gobberment into their lives over trite bullshit ever again. You never know what is going to happen when you call the police. These people could have been signing her death warrant; the police are not above tazering an old woman over a football. Seriously, I have no sympathy for these people and hope the law suit seriously hurts them. Hey johnny, what did you get for xmas? Nothing, my parents had to pay for legal bills because I was too much of an asshat to avoid an obviously crazy old woman and keep off her lawn!
To the guy who thinks she wasnt arrested... she was placed in the back of a cop car after refusing to sign a ticket and taken to the police station and booked. What if she, this crazy 89 year old woman, would have resisted?
I think she has a good case... being arrested over bullshit is seriously traumatic. How most people dont shit their pants when it happens is beyond me. And people say 'well they should have done this' or 'well they should have done that'... Who the hell is taught how to deal with irrational asshats who have the authority to ruin your life? Its pretty natural to react in ones defense when you are about to be unjustly screwed over or attacked.
Insert carlins rant about micky mouse and a chedder cheese log right here...
-Pyster
@#18: Desprez, you are the voice of reason. I think you totally nailed it. Seems to me that both sides could have handled this thing a lot better.
Sorry, Takuan. It is easy to blame lawyers. But if people acted more civilly to each other, and didn't have a knee-jerk reaction of wanting to sue each other, then there wouldn't be a host of bottom-feeding lawyers willing to bring their petty lawsuits.
There are senior communities for people who are too crabby to live in company with reminders of their own long-departed youths.
This really squicks the authoritarians here doesn't it? She probably has some form of dementia. She clearly isn't rational.
Perception is a bitch.
...Y knw, whn n ld prsn gts *ths* crnky, t's tm t pt thm n th ld flks' hm. Th fmly gttng sd nds t cntrs nd xprssly stt tht thy'r skng th jdg t cmmt th ld bt fr bvs snl dmnt.
Being old gives you some rights, but not the right to be an asshole.
Nope, that's what the internet is for!
(not @ you, anonymous at #11)
It's not a question of how many toys actualy hit the old lady.
It's the constant *threat* of a toy hitting her that leads to a climate of fear which she can't survive.
How many old ladies should be hurt before the old lady responded? One hundred? One thousand? Six million?
It's a question of human rights.
>"plc r nt bv tzrng n ld wmn vr ftbll"
...nd f ths hppns, hr's hpng n ths cs w gt lts f nc dsh cmr ftg, bcs ths wld b rr cs f whr nt nly r th cps jstfd, th ld bddy brght t n hrslf.
#11 s rght. Bng ld ds *NT* tmtclly bstw pn y th rght t b crnky ld btch.
#27: We have a winner!
Sworm, that's very, very good. I dread Greg's entry into this conversation!
I think she's entitled to defend herself. She should be allowed to drop planeloads of toys on THEIR yard in retaliation.
Come to think of it...I'm not sure they'd mind.
#4: Lawyers don't sue people. People with lawyers sue people.
I'm amazed at the number of cranky old people who apparently read Boing Boing. I don't care how often the kids accidentally let a ball or a frisbee end up in her yard, she doesn't have the right to keep it.
What if her fancy Sunday hat blew into their yard? If they kept that and refused to give it back, that would be theft, and they should be arrested. Just because she's old and the owners are kids doesn't mean they should have their property taken. She's older, she should know better and not be acting like a child. "It came over the fence, it's mine now, you can't have it!"
Her name is Edna (you may hear it on the wind - EDNA-aaaa - JESTER!!! It's too precious. D'ya think kids are lobbing their toys into her garden to get a re-action - 't-all???
Growing up, we had a neighbour who always refused to return any ball that landed in his garden not only from our play but any other kids as well. The fact that my parents and us kids always lobbed balls back from our garden to theirs when needed seemed to have escaped this very idiotic stupid man's notice.
I learned two great things from this experience - the neighbour was and still is a fucking eejit and my Dad teaching me the importance of saying 'I'm sorry'.
My Dad upon arguing with demented neighbour one day about the confiscated balls said 'I am sorry about this. What more can I say?' Idiotic man's response was 'Well, that's not good enough!'. My Dad said 'What is good enough?' The eejit man had no response and walked back into his house. My Dad turned around to us and immediately said 'sorry is always good enough'.
I respected my Dad so much for that; well, amongst other things
This lady should join the nunnery. She's obviously overwhelmed by the presence of balls!
I'm actually, to a certain extent, going to agree with the old lady here. She's under no obligation to retrieve their ball that has landed in her yard. I've lost things before where they weren't readily retrievable or where I was not allowed to go in order to retrieve them, and that was that.
The police should not have arrested her for failing to return an item that was put into her secured property without her consent. But, as others have said, since they did, she isn't out of line to sue the neighbors.
And yes, as far as I'm concerned, is generally entitled to one's state of demeanor, even if it is cranky. Others have the ability to avoid dealing with this person, and if the kids hadn't thrown the items over the fence to make them her problem then they wouldn't be dealing with her in the first place.
What she should have done: Left it where it fell and then called the police on THEM for trespassing if they tried to get it. Why should she be responsible for returning what she didn't put there in the first place?
I'm frankly disgusted that this headline has such a bias, it should read: "86 year old woman arrested for keeping football that landed on her property" That's the crime, here.
Anyway, I hope she wins, honestly.
"and if the kids hadn't thrown the items over the fence to make them her problem then they wouldn't be dealing with her in the first place."
...And here's the other mistake some posters here are making: they're assuming that the kids threw their toys onto the old bat's property *deliberately*. If this were the case, then the fssl would have a legal *and* moral leg to stand on. But this was a result of normal play, and her keeping those toys is clearly theft, and she needs to be prosecuted and punished for it.
OM,
Stop trolling or we'll sic Greg London or MouthyB on your ass.
A child's football landing on your property is a crime? Wow, talk about taking internet wankery to new levels... maybe there should be a prize?
I certainly hope none of the commenters that believe she was in the right have children. Honestly, they're outside and getting exercise. That should be applauded and encouraged!
In addition, I had this terrible habit of watching that television show "Cops" and you'd be surprised the number of incidents in which the police were called by the old ladies. Heck, one old lady demanded that the children no be permitted to play basketball. It wasn't even her property they were playing on!
I agree with OM.
#16: Frisbee is a registered trademark of the Wham-O corporation.
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081020/NEWS01/310200028
Ms. Jester admitted to keeping three balls. That's petty theft. Also, the family didn't ask for her to be arrested; they just wanted the ball back because their son payed for it himself. The cops are the ones who arrested her. And, it's her own fault she was arrested for being stubborn and not complying with the officers' demands. If she's to sue anyone, it should be the police, and if she were to sue them, I would still hope she loses. She's the only one who has done anything wrong.
Read the whole damn story before you start flaming.
Frankly, I dislike vile-tempered old people only marginally less than I dislike screeching, thumpingly loud children - anyone inconsiderate enough to be subjecting their neighbours to FIVE of those things at once needs to pay some sort of a penalty, imo. In other words, I think both parties in of this idiot fight deserve anything that happens to them, the only winners are going to be the lawyers :-P
Here's the part that gets me:
"Tanis said his son and some of his cousins and friends were playing football in the street Thursday when the ball landed in Jester’s yard, where she was gardening. He said Jester picked up the football, refused to give it back and told him to call the police."
She was standing right there when the ball landed in her yard. Didn't even give the kids a chance to ask for it back (The Mister Moofoo Speculate-O-Meter is on).
Maybe it's just that old people annoy me more than kids, but I'm siding with the kids on this one.
And as such, I propose a solution:
Long-crowing roosters.
Tag-team match!
OM and the Anonymous Grump
vs.
Noen and Pyster
Return your corners and come out fighting sans vowels. (Although maybe not; our mod seems to favor segregating old people in, um, communities.)
"Stop trolling or we'll sic Greg London or MouthyB on your ass."
...Two responses:
1) If I were "trolling", Teresa would have already spanked me. Ergo, your claim is false.
2) thr wy, brng bth ths PC FL xmpls n.
Down with mean old ladies! And that's my final word on the subject.
Unless someone says something I have to respond to, of course. :-)
"If I were "trolling", Teresa would have already spanked me."
Ya know, for some that's a feature. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Your honor, defense would like to submit Exhibit A. Plaintiff has a history of emotional instability and general nuttiness.
Good fences make good neighbors.
:B
Noen, I watched that video. Her approach to them was really obnoxious and offensive, but as to her point she was absolutely right, and if she'd approached it differently she might have saved some lives.
Um...you're not seriously suggesting that that was Edna Jester, right? All old ladies aren't equally crazy, you know. (Besides, if that lady was 89, I'm 14.)
OM: If I were "trolling", Teresa would have already spanked me.
Does this look like Teresa to you?:
#22, posted by Antinous:
There are senior communities for people who are too crabby to live in company with reminders of their own long-departed youths.
I don't think the vigilant de-voweler is on duty tonight. She wouldn't let old people be categorically insulted, as you and others have been doing on this thread.
I think this should be settled with naked tapioca wrestling.
OK, OK, not naked tapioca wrestling. How about mah-jonng?
No time limit, no substitutions. No chowing, and no wimpy limit hands (like Heavenly Twins), but the first competitor to get Heavenly Gates automatically wins, and gets to decide whether You Kids Get Offa My Lawn or Down With Mean Old Ladies is the Word of the Day.
Naked.
In the warm tapioca.
Buddy, I don't see that comment by Antinous as insulting old people. It's insulting to CRABBY old people who can't stand young people. Most old people like having young people around. I know I do! I'm not as old as Edna Jester, but when I am I sure hope I'm not as mean as she is.
Well ... I was a competitive wrestler in my youth, but I'm too ... wait! Tapioca, you say?
I might be able to handle a Mean Old Lady.
If my mean old lady will let me.
I think the old lady was a bit extreme, and everyone is taking one side or another, but I have a question. She has the right to be angry about the equipment landing on her property, so how does she deal with it? Does she set up a video camera, and file trespassing charges every time someone comes to get something back ? She has a right to "You kids stay off my lawn". The D.A. probably won't go ahead with the charges, so what should she do ? Shoot the kids when they do it at night ?
I didn't say Antinous was insulting old people. I am suggesting that snarky and insulting remarks about them are getting by him, maybe because it's not an issue high on his list of concerns. I was addressing the obnoxious OM, something I try to avoid because of my aversion to trolls.
OK. See, when you quoted Antinous and then said "[Teresa] wouldn't let old people be categorically insulted, as you and others have been doing on this thread," I got confused and thought you were saying he was doing it personally.
Reading more carefully, I now understand that you meant that Antinous and the other mods were letting old people be categorically insulted, not that they were doing it themselves. Sorry for my confusion.
Revenge is a dish best served old.
Five kids living next door, I am betting there is more to this story than just a "mean little old lady." Maybe she is just mad as hell, and does not want to take it anymore and this is one way to get a little attention.
you're not seriously suggesting that that was Edna Jester, right?
Ah no, it was just a joke, trying to lighten things up a bit. I tried to find one where they didn't actually hit each other. Do you know how many hits you get for "crazy old lady" on YouTube? Wow. Now the hits you get for "chav gets beat", that would be the kids here, that's also pretty funny.
Way back @ #15 I LOL'd for a couple of minutes. It's FTW on this thread.
Reminds me of the time my sister ran away from home for a few days to get away from her three adolescent children. She grabbed her overnight case and her favorite pillow and went a few blocks away to our mother's house. After 48 hours the kids came to negotiate, at their father's urging, and they worked out a contract about the domestic issues that led to their mother "abandoning them." Thirty years later it's one of their favorite family stories.
This isnt about young or old in my mind, it is about calling in the police to resolve trite unimportant issues. Law enforcement is notorious for escalating situations to unreasonable levels, they arent known for defusing situations. By involving the police these people put this woman's well being in danger; and the put the lives of REAL victims in danger by subverting resources to deal with this nonsense.
Was she right to keep the football? Ofcourse not. It was a total bitch move. Old people are like that, and you will be old and cranky one day too. Life is like that. But at some point you have to be the bigger person and just let go. Think of it as a $20 lesson and move on. Would have been allot cheaper than being sued.
I wonder what lesson the kid will learn as the family is forced to share plain eggo waffles and warm water at diner time for the next year.
F those ppl.
Pyster
My being away proves nothing.
Never doubt that Antinous and Avram control the horizontal, the vertical, the vowels, and the trap door that's under your feet.
Greg London is his own man, not a public utility. I'll grant that he can be an indefatigable arguer. Some arguments need one of those. Any of you who want to take his place, and do the considerable amount of work required in such situations, are welcome to audition.
I remember a joke about a kid tipping over the outhouse. His dad was furious. The kid admitted to doing it. His dad then gave him a hiding, which the kid felt was most unjust. The kid indignantly quoted the story of George Washington and the cherry tree. His dad replied "son, George Washington's father was not in that cherry tree".
I think a salient point here is that the old lady was in the garden when the football landed. Most 89 year olds tend to be frail, and the prospect of being hit by a football would be frightening. In an elderly person it could lead to permanent disability and dependence. That is probably why she stresses out whenever the balls land, because she might be hit.
While I do agree the whole thing has gone to a ridiculous extreme, I also think she has a case.
Just wondered, if she admitted to keeping 3 balls then how many times have these kids kicked a ball into her garden (accidentally or otherwise)? I think she has a case, I'm sure that both neighbours have had something to say over the matter, yet the kids continue to kick balls into her garden. I think I'd have had enough by that point too, although I'd have tossed the balls into the next garden and denied all knowledge of their existence. ;)
ChrisP
Umm...
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081020/NEWS01/310200028
"Tanis said his son and some of his cousins and friends were playing football in the street Thursday when the ball landed in Jester’s yard, where she was gardening. **He said Jester picked up the football, refused to give it back and told him to call the police.**"
Sounds to me like the neighbor lady has been the one advocating the nuclear option of getting authorities involved from the beginning. If somebody TELLS you the only way to get your possessions back is to call the police on them, wouldn't you eventually get sick of arguing and call the police?
Getting arrested is pretty much her own fault if that's what she really said.
With all due respect I wonder if she is really OK living on her own. Her disproportionate responses to these incidents could indicate a little more than her just being "cranky".
Enough assuming she is a frail old lady. She seems to be quite in control of the situation and a crank to boot. She was gardening at the time, not in an oxygen tent.
Let's deal with this as two sets of people in control of their own choices, and not reduce it to 'kids are rude' and 'old people are frail'.
She refused to return the ball, which accidentally landed in her yard in the normal course of neighbourhood activity. She then advised the kid/parent that the police would be required to get the ball back. The police were called.
Now she sues? C R A N K.
I think someone who immediately snags the football, refuses to give it back, and tells the kids they can call the police isn't primarily scared. The word that comes to my mind is "vindictive".
I've got to agree with katybeth, while this woman may be off, and who isn't for that matter, it sounds like those kids have been at the wheel for a long time. There have obviously been some issues in the past, and I would bet the parents are at fault. At this point the kids should be under orders to keep their distance. Stay away from people that don't want you near, especially those that bite. The parents sound like disrespectful assholes. Why should she return a damn thing some unprincipled punk's kids throw in HER yard? If that family wanted to have a good neighbor those kids should be over there helping her with her yard work, instead of throwing shit her way.
because of our love of novelty we often abandon perfectly good descriptive words that have life left in them.
Ornery. This is an ornery old woman.
Buddy66 @57, people are making unwarrantedly snarky remarks about the elderly, but they're also making them about the kids next door, and kids in general. It's the nature of this conversation.
I've seen both sides of the fight. I'm a gardener who's lived in some kid-intensive environments, and I grew up in a rambunctious five-kid family. I've always thrown back balls that landed in my yard. If I were working out there and someone scared me -- say, some of the kids who live on the other side of the block unexpectedly set off firecrackers immediately behind my back fence, not that I'm (*cough*) suggesting that's ever happened -- I'd just tell them to warn me next time.
My sense of things is that an old lady who gardens, lives next door to a family with five kids, and has unilaterally escalated to DEFCON 2, is not afraid of their behavior.
Gardens are fragile things. You can't be watching them at every moment, and you can't prove who snapped the stalks on your lilies or trod on your caladiums. Non-gardeners you call in to witness these atrocities won't see the extent of the damage as clearly as you can, and won't feel it as keenly.
If you've got five kids living right on the other side of your fenceline, and you have no qualms about alienating them or outraging their sense of fairness, you're either stupid as mud, or you're reasonably certain that they're not the kind of kids who'd retaliate.
There's also the issue of the missing intermediate steps: threatening to talk to their parents, and actually talking to them. If you already thought their parents were the kind of bad neighbors who won't take their kids in hand when you complain, you'd also have thought twice before calling the police in on a simple possession-of-football argument, or hitting them with what's obviously a nuisance lawsuit. Next-door neighbors make bad enemies.
Ornery. Just so.
Maybe she just wants to be left alone. And no one seems to be respecting that wish.
When my son says, daddy he hit me. My response is, are you ok? Your right, it is wrong for him to hit you. I also, try to find out if my child is provoking an attack. But the best bit of advice I can give, that will protect them the rest of their life is don't play with people that hit you; stay away from them; leave 'em alone.
It's the parents responsibility, at the first sign of an ornery old lady, or anyone else, to make sure their kids keep their distance.
I've been doing some more thinking about this.
Ms. Jester did tell the kids they could call the police if they wanted their ball back. When they duly called the police, she refused to sign the ticket. That's what got her taken to the police station and booked.
It was the third ball she'd kept. The kid bought it with his own money, which suggests to me that the family doesn't have infinite resources. Now Ms. Jester has filed what is clearly a nuisance lawsuit, claiming damages for her pain and suffering caused by having an occasional ball land in her yard.
The woman lives in suburbia. She can have no reasonable expectation that balls will never land in her yard. It's a common event in that environment, like having your doorbell rung on Halloween, or having all the nearby parking spaces be full if your neighbor holds a big party or advertises a particularly good yard sale.
I'm going to give up on ornery and revert to vindictive.
frisbees go on the roof, balls go into the yard. this is the way of things. when u live in suburbia one must expect these things or one is insane. perhaps a nice padded room would best suit this 'ornery' woman.
Talk about a lack of respect for elders!
I think was would've been a great opportunity for the parents to teach the kids a lesson about responsibility for your actions, i.e. you throw ball on private property, you might lose it, particulary if you don't have a good relationship with the owner of said property. That would entail too much common sense though.
As a fellow misanthrope who has had my share of clueless neighbors I can definitely relate to this woman and support her right to legal recourse. This is what law suits are for, people.
The lawyers I know are pretty powerful in their conflicts with people acting unfairly or stupidly because they can afford to threaten legal action and act on that threat, whereas the typical person is not going to pursue a lawsuit unless they are willing to risk losing a lot of money.
I've had lawyers help me a lot and I hope this woman wins her case and/or a hefty settlement.
Respect for elders? Respect is earned and she hasn't earned any. Living in a retirement area I've learned that people just intensify their basic personalities as they get older. The nice get nicer and the horrible get more horrible. But the horrible ones always seem to live longer. Or maybe it just seems that way.
Old people in their late 80s and 90s, particularly those living alone, can be disproportionately stressed out by ~all~ of life's little challenges. And just feeling that the thronging hordes of children outside their door consider them unworthy of consideration will leave them feeling vulnerable and defensive.
I fear that the relationship between this old woman and her neighbours is quite likely unsalvagable, but I would counsel parents to teach their children to smile at old people, and to ask nicely for permission to retrieve their balls; and I would advise anyone thinking of ~becoming~ an old person, to smile at, and get to know, the young parents and children in your neighbourhood.
p.s. antinous - surely there's a baseline of respect due to all people, unless proven otherwise...
She doesn't have to earn their respect. However, they must respect her privacy and property rights. The parents are the ones at fault. Clearly this is about a lot more than a ball in the yard. The children's actions are only a reflection of the parents. My oldest is almost five and already he understands we do not go onto other people's property for any reason without their permission. Obviously, the parents don't understand how to deal with difficult neighbors and they are not teaching their children to respect personal property or, more importantly, how to avoid confrontation.
"She doesn't have to earn their respect. However, they must respect her privacy and property rights. The parents are the ones at fault. Clearly this is about a lot more than a ball in the yard. The children's actions are only a reflection of the parents. My oldest is almost five and already he understands we do not go onto other people's property for any reason without their permission. Obviously, the parents don't understand how to deal with difficult neighbors and they are not teaching their children to respect personal property or, more importantly, how to avoid confrontation."
...Oh, puh-leez. You're worried about setting examples for the kids, what sort of example are you setting by telling them if anyone drops anything on your property it's yours and you don't have to give it back under any circumstances? I pity your kid.
...What happened here is pretty simple: the kids' ball went into the old biddy's yard - and did *NOT* cause any property damage - and just to be a pain she refused to return it to them. It was an unwarranted confiscation on her part because it was not a case of "finders keepers", as the kids had not lost sight of the ball. Possession is still in their court, so to speak. Such unwarranted confiscations are equivalent to theft, and the cops were in the right to bust her for it. If not a fine, then she should serve jail time for her crime.
Bottom Line: Nobody's saying old people don't have rights, but those rights do not include any sort of right to confiscate property that is not theirs. Theft is theft, and if any example needs to be set its by busting *anyone* who pulls this sort of stunt. If a kid kicks a ball and all it does is land in your yard, give it back. If it breaks a window, then it's a different story, but clearly that didn't happen in this case.
There's a guy living in my dad's rental house. His back-wall neighbors' teenage kids knocked on the door one day wanting to retrieve a ball. He let 'em through the house to the backyard, because the side way was blocked off. 3 days later, his house was robbed by same kids. They were staking out the house. Darn right after that I'm not giving any balls back. Lady can be grumpy if she wants to.
Om, go back and read all of my comments, then don't respond.
curtismayfield, you seem pretty long-winded and ignant for a dead guy.
This sounds like a classic bad-neighbor war, where two families just refuse to back off from their own stupidity.
Since almost everyone is assuming their own version of the story, here's my scenario for the whole thing:
a) Kids start playing street football or whatever on a daily basis.
b) balls start landing in her yard.
c) kids mess up her flowers either by hitting them with the ball or by stepping on them while retrieving ball. Or maybe a ball bounces so close to her it startles her so badly she throws her back out.
d) old lady yells at kids to "get off my damn lawn." etc. Kids leave but don't mention incident to their parents. (this could happen before or after c) above)
e) After a few days kids are on the street again having completely forgotten the incident in their self-centered juvenile way, and lose their ball on her property again, possibly with further damage/startlement.
f) Old lady is completely POed, so she confiscates the ball and tells them to call the cops if they want it back. Her POV is probably that the pesky kids are damaging her property and/or endangering her and should be punished/warned.
g) Old lady is gobsmacked when SHE is the one arrested for not giving the ball back.
h) Suffering from dementia and still clinging to the desire for justice and divine punishment to rain down on those pesky kids, she falls into the clutches of an unscrupulous attorney who suggests this lawsuit.
In this scenario, it's really a confrontation of kids being kids and a cranky old lady being cranky. No one is particularly psychotic, but both sides suffering from feelings of resentment and hurt, are unable to admit their own mistakes or even back off from them.
And finally, if she wants to keep the kids and their balls of her lawn, what can she do? She already tried the nuclear option and it backfired. IANAL, but it seems like if she had a good lawyer, she probably would have filed for a restraining order rather than damages for emotional distress. Or perhaps the lawsuit is a necessary pre-req for getting a restraining order in her jurisdiction?
The kids are guilty of persistent and malicious trespass against this lady. She wants to be left alone and they won't leave her alone.
"Om, go back and read all of my comments, then don't respond."
...And what gives *you* the right to tell -me- not to respond? I'll respond as I see fit, deal with it.
...Wth tht n mnd, 'v rd yr rpls, nd my ssssmnt stnds frm: pty yr kd grwng p wth y s prnt.
[shks hd n ttr dsmy]
as you see fit? Within civility you mean? Right?
Tea(tempest)pot.
Reminds me of ongoing feuds in academia...where the battles are so bitter because the stakes are so very low.
Like Wikipedia Talk pages: the length and fury of the discussion is in inverse proportion to the importance of the article.
...Fascinating. Everyone else can respond negatively to me, and not get disemvowelled, and yet I try to keep it somewhat civil, and find myself censored. It would be at least fair for whoever seems to get their rocks off censoring me to at least show they possess said by a) admitting they've done so, and b) justifying *why* they've done so.
"as you see fit? Within civility you mean? Right?"
...If my comment was considered enough of a "snark" to be disemvowelled, then this one should have been outright purged.
A little fairness, people. There's far more biting commentary than mine that's been left intact.
[shakes head at a certain moderator's cowardice]
OM,
You always have the option to flag comments for moderation. Your comments are regularly flagged by other commenters. If other people find your comments offensive rather than humorous, I suggest that you work on your writing style.
m, y r gttng brng.
"Om, you are getting boring."
...Complaint filed as suggested.
Antinous @78:
Agreed.
You can respect your elders all you want, but it doesn't guarantee that all the elders in your vicinity will be good people. Like Antinous, I've lived near large retirement communities. Some elderly retirees are lovely people. Some just want to be left alone. And some of them can be as spiteful, selfish, and vindictive as anyone you'll ever meet.
I think we can all agree that there are plenty of people out there who have neither conscience nor compassion. Guess what? They get old too. They resent their dwindling power over others, and seize on all opportunities to exercise whatever power they still have, no matter how inappropriate it is.
FoetusNail @80 said, "Clearly, this conflict between neighbors is about more than a ball landing in someone's yard." Granted. But recognizing that it has to be about something more doesn't mean it's necessarily about something reasonable. It can be about nothing more than plain old malice.
Let me remind those who've been imagining scenarios: when the police came, they ticketed the old lady, and when she refused to sign the ticket, they took her down to the station. Those things don't generally happen to frightened old ladies who can't cope with flying objects, or to reasonable old ladies who just want to be left alone. Ticketing her says that in the officers' judgement, she was in the wrong. Notice how badly she reacted to being told that.
The moral here, believe it or not, is that we should all cultivate the copybook virtues while we're still young. When age or illness diminish our faculties, what we're left with are our longstanding habits. Being pleasant to others is survival-positive. If we've cultivated the habits of kindness, candor, generosity, modesty, forbearance, and a benevolent interest in others, we're much, much less likely to wind up isolated and ignored, and die alone and unregretted.
I always though she was the model for Mrs.Soprano.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNyFAa_nAPI
"The moral here, believe it or not, is that we should all cultivate the copybook virtues while we're still young."
Now you tell me!
youth is relative, Buddy. Still own a nib pen?
A little fairness, people. There's far more biting commentary than mine that's been left intact.
it's not that it's biting, it's that it bites. Mondo.
Copybook? Is that like Netbook? We should all strive to be small, cheap, and underpowered?
Teh youngsters is confused.
ah the delights of the copybook, the school masters hardwood rule cracking down edgewise on the knuckles of the untidy, the endless loops of the cursive exercises, the pathetic blotting of ink stipples in useless, furtive effort in a vain attempt to avoid detection, the bland platitudes repeated endless by rote in the dingy, chalk-dust smelling schoolroom....
We had ink wells and Civil War graffiti on our desks.
luxury! We had to excrete our own ink AND keep the schoolmaster's jug filled with molten brimstone every morning, twice!
If as everyone says, and the evidence seems to point this out, that this woman is nothing more than "spiteful, selfish, and vindictive", then all the more reason to make sure your children stay away from her. Because the best thing to do with someone like that is to let your kids throw shit in their yard. In other words, never give her any reason or opportunity to engage with you or your family.
Would you also tell your children it is ok to go down to the local MC bar and call everyone bitches and their old ladies ugly, because hitting people that call you names is against the law?
A good rule of thumb is unless you're having sex, don't fuck with assholes.
p'raps they would have burnt her a century or three hence.
I actually brought pickled limes to school, but at least I never had to dump them out the window to be scavenged by urchins. My grammar school did have a Louisa May Alcott sort of feel to it.
not Mr. Wackford Squeers?
They would have lived a mile apart and the damn kids would have been to tired from throwing hay all day to walk to her place and throw away something so precious as their only store bought toy.
I'm glad I made the coffee strong this morning. That withering blast of Alcott prose would otherwise have sent me back to bed. Ye gods, what tedious stuff! Huck and Tom had much more fun than those poor girls. Sucking on pickled limes ?
Ridl @101:
Roughly speaking, "copybook virtues" refers to all those abstract virtues that are defined by their names: honesty, loyalty, thrift, charity, kindness, endurance, integrity, courage, thoughtfulness, cleanliness, unselfishness, helpfulness, industry, punctuality, et cetera.The phrase tends to have a slightly archaic feel to it, no matter what year it's being used. IMO, this is probably because so many speakers can't resist going on to describe the copybook virtues as the values of a bygone era.
You can, if you wish, take that perennial view as proof that cultivating good habits increases your chances of maintaining social ties when you get old: the geezers people know tend to be the ones who have those virtues.
(Footnote: copybook maxims are much like copybook virtues, only longer.)
My upbringing was much more March than Finn, as one might expect in a small town in Eastern Massachusetts.
I would like to point out that not all geezers lose their vitality. There's an old geezer I know about at Yellowstone National Park that goes off every twenty minutes!
OW!
OW!
I think they drop little blue pills into it every now and then.
I think this escalated far out of control, but I can also see both sides of the story - particularly because kids can be little shits at times. I have a tangentially related tale of my own.
One side of our backyard runs along an alleyway. Both ourselves and our upstairs neighbours have largish dogs who enjoy free run of our fenced-in yard for a good portion of the day.
About a year ago, a group of neighbourhood kids decided their new favourite game was throwing random stuff over our fence from the alleyway at the dogs (who until this point never even barked at the kids walking by). When I say random stuff, I mean everything from garbage to pieces of plastic and metal. Things that posed a real danger to the animals.
We didn't know where the kids lived, but we tried talking to them, and when that didn't work, we tried being sterner with them and explaining the risks involved in what they were doing. But that didn't work either. Eventually I crossed paths with some neighbourhood cops and mentioned what was going on, they promised to patrol past the alleyway more regularly and voila! the stupidity finally stopped (guess they must have caught the kids in the act one day). But this was after weeks of tearing our hair out.
I think one should be able to enjoy their own yard in relative safety. Accidents and mis-thrown balls do occasionally happen, but when it becomes an almost constant nuisance, it can drive even non-elderly people to their wits end.
That said, when I was growing up, I was taught to be careful of where/how I played and to stay off private property. If someone else's property got damaged due to my rowdy play, I had to use my allowance to pay for the damage. This taught me respect for those things that belong to others - it seems these children were never taught anything similar.
It's worth noting that if I had lost a ball over a grumpy neighbour's fence and they had refused to give it back, my dad's response would have been, "Too bad, so sad. Maybe next time you'll find a more appropriate place to play or be more careful with your belongings." He'd simply have considered it a valuable lesson learned.
I think large portions of this thread have had far more to do with the commenters' own past experiences, and not all that much to do with the original story as reported.
Foetusnail, there's a recent point of yours I can agree with wholeheartedly: if you've got a malign neighbor, the best thing you can teach your kids is to give them a wide berth.
"Let me remind those who've been imagining scenarios: when the police came, they ticketed the old lady, and when she refused to sign the ticket, they took her down to the station. Those things don't generally happen to frightened old ladies who can't cope with flying objects, or to reasonable old ladies who just want to be left alone. Ticketing her says that in the officers' judgement, she was in the wrong. Notice how badly she reacted to being told that."
...Two points:
1) The fact that she got ticketed and the cops thought she was in the wrong will no doubt go against her attempts to sue the kids and their parents. In fact, according to a couple of my OMBloggers who are lawyers who've been following this case, unless a window got broken - which didn't happen, obviously - or some property damage in excess of $100.00 USD occurred, the odds are *VERY* strong that the judge will toss the case out after hearing the first motion by the old bat's lawyers.
2) The problem, those same two lawyers admit, is that the parents are cash-strapped as we all are these days, and probably can't afford a lawyer. They could try to represent themselves if this goes to a small claims court, but if the old biddy is pushing for an excessive damage payout, then they need a lawyer even if the judge is going to toss her and her case out on her ass. There is one saving grace, tho - as much publicity as this case is getting, there'll be at least one pro bono lawyer who'll take the case gratis just to help set an example to all the cranky old fossils out there. Were I a lawyer, I'd volunteer to take this case as such on those grounds.
I think we need barratry laws in the US. If we have any at all, they're clearly inadequate.
(No, I'm not arguing for "tort reform," which is designed to take access to the courts away from the little guy.)