Chemistry student wrongly busted for meth and bombs
Over at i09, Annalee Newitz blogs about Lewis Casey, a Saskatchewan college student who built a home chemistry lab and was arrested by police who thought he was brewing meth. A few days later, the police realized that the chemistry major wasn't manufacturing drugs but kept him in the clink anyway because the lab could allegedly be used for making bombs. From i09:
On December 24, Casey was finally released into his parents' custody, pending a trial to determine whether he was building what police called "improvised explosive devices." Yesterday Casey's lawyer told local journalists:"Teen with Home Chemistry Lab Arrested for Meth, Bombs"
My client is a very intelligent young man . . . he's very keen in chemistry, a very curious young person and very capable, very knowledgeable in the area and he was always curious with regard to chemistry, chemical compounds, chemical reactions, that kind of thing. So from my client's point of view, it's completely innocent insofar as he had no intention of creating any explosives or explosive devices. As people probably know, anything in your house can constitute or be used in chemical or explosive devices, including sugar and cleaning compounds, Mr. Clean, bleach, detergents, all those sorts of things.
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well, at least we can say it wasn't racial profiling.
*sarcastic*
The only problem with being so smart is that other people get paranoid about their own sense of inferiority. If they don't undrstand you AND you don't kiss ass, then you must be working against them.
Yes kids. Always hide your cleverness from your fellows. That way they won't suspect you, and you can safely plan and build your island base with which TO CRAFT THEIR FIERY DOOM!
Remember, blow up the Eiffel tower live to show them your awesome destructive power, and kill the secret agent BEFORE the monologue where you explain your plan to take over the world.
Now go my pretty ones, make daddy proud.
Curiosity, resourcefulness and any interest in science beyond the text book MUST be punished.
God, I'm going to miss you, Neo-Cons.
@3: NEVER explain your plan! that will make you mysterious AND dangerous!
I think MDH got it right about people's paranoia about others with high intelligence.
how sad... but look what happened to Galileo.
The defense is dead-on -- if you can't improvise a bomb from stuff laying around any given house you've had an inadequate education in the basic sciences.
So... he is/was being held pending a trial to determine if they can press charges of bomb making? Did I miss something here? What the hell happened to innocent until proven guilty?
That oughtta teach kids to be good at science.
Apparently The Gallileo thing was all a misunderstanding.
damn kids! get that chemlab offa my lawn!
I think you're making it too complicated. The student's intelligence isn't what triggered this. They're just assuming that anyone with a chemistry lab must either be making drugs or explosives.
What this suggests to me is that the only time they've been around lab equipment was when they were taught to recognize drug-related equipment. The appropriate penalty is obvious: they should have to take, and pass, a couple of full-scale chemistry classes.
In the meantime, someone should tell them that manufacturing explosives in any quantity is probably going to look more like construction work than like Mad Scientist antics in a lab.
I can't wait until they find a book with big words in it that they can't understand, and assume it's some secret Taliban code.
That's the spirit. Disguise your grasp of the language like that and they'll never suspect.
The last 10 years of my life have been an example of what happens when the jocks take over the school.
Oh my!
I better hide my applied thermodynamics book, the physics book, the design of thermal systems book, the pharmaceutical process book...
You get the drift.
@4: as a matter of principle I am a conservative voter, but I find no fault on your comment. it is very true; less enlightened individuals will see interest beyond the text as something wrong. It is a sad day for scientists, chemists, engineers, and others all around the world.
Reminds me of when the police caught me hammering at my front porch, thinking I was vandalizing a house. Then when I proved it was my house, they kept me in prison because the hammer "could be used to hit somebody over the head".
Okay - that didn't really happen, but it's the same thing.
Crap.
*runs and hides chemistry set*
I am a chemist. You would marvel at how often the guido's of the world ask me if i've ever made - you guessed it - bombs or drugs. And no i have not. Tyvm.
If Edison was a kid growing up in today's world, he would be doing 25 years to life.
I just got a copy of The Dangerous Book for Boys. It shows me how to make a bomb timer with an old wind up alarm clock, set up trip-wires, and how to make pressure plate detonators to place under a carpet. I guess I should be worried.
That and the fact that I'm a software developer for an engineering company and the prototypes I work on could possibly be described as IEDs (improvised electronic devices, yes cops have used that acronym in that manner before).
Who knew that knowledge was a crime...
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewan/story/2008/12/23/saskatoon-police.html
Ths s bll, f plc fnd tngr wth n dvncd hm chmstry lb nd nknwn chmcls, thy'd bttr ssm ts smthng bd frst, dtn th kd, slt th xprmnt, cll n th bmb sqd r n xprt n chmstry ntl t hs bn prvn sf.
Mst plc ffcrs r trnd t rcgnz mth lbs, s tht shldn't hv bn n ss, bt ths dy ny plc dpt. wld b stpd f thy ddn't hv stndng rdr t tk ctn whn fcd wth th crcmstncs dscrbd n th rtcl.
'm sr tht mst ppl wld b vry ngry f th ffcrs hd wlkd wy wtht frthr nvstgtn nd th kd ltr blw p bldng, lk dycr r wrs, n brtn clnc!
http://www.vancouversun.com/Saskatoon+home+wasn+meth+used+only+produce+explosives+Police/1100289/story.html
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081218.wscocstone1218/BNStory/National/home
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Stonechild
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Stickney+retires+from+Saskatoon+Police+Service/1057503/story.html
http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Sask+tops+number+police/1070846/story.html
A coworker's kid was busted because he had a crowbar - which could potentially be used for a break-in - in the toolbox of his pickup truck.
I feel sorry for kids today... by the time they grow up, the world will be totally insane.
The other thing I see at work here is a typical police reaction to screwing up the first time, which is to keep at it until you find something that sticks, no matter how improbable. As a criminal defense attorney, I have noticed that there are a lot of cops and prosecutors (note, not all. . .) who just won't give things up. Ever.
a waste of time no doubt, but you could try educating them:
http://www.police.saskatoon.sk.ca/index.php?page_id=cnt&loc=contact.php
If you think this is bad, try being an amateur pyrotech. All the chemicals we use for pretty colors, smoke and noise can be considered bomb making materials. Having a state Pyrotechnic Display Operators license or a library full of quality pyrotechnic books doesn't factor when they want to prosecute you for having sulfur and potassium nitrate. Two of the most common chemicals used in fireworks among other things.
There are very few (2-3+) fireworks manufacturers in US anymore. Mostly from pressure due to imports but a lot has to do with insurance and legislative reasons. Soon we won't have access to fireworks to celebrate our freedoms with.
thnk mst f y nd rlty chck. Remember all the articles and comments on Wired News about how Hans Reiser was being misunderstood and wrongly prosecuted by the authorities? Oops, he confessed to murder and all the armchair lawyers that formed an opinion without access to the facts were dead wrong.
Maybe this kid is totally innocent, maybe he was stuffing hand grenades with explosive. None of us have enough information to know one way or the other.
The police are obviously working with Captain Hammer
http://www.myspace.com/darkhorsepresents?issuenum=12&storynum=2
Question,,,
I make armour in my garage using a coal fired forge a few hammers and a couple of anvils,,, Is that too high tech and foreign for cops to understand? Should I switch to sowing American flags and baking pies?
Tom Hale @23, do you remember that bit in the moderation policy about how "[m]aking supercilious and unpleasant remarks in a civil liberties thread about how the victim had it coming" is forbidden? Don't be that guy.
Diluded000 @33, while it's always wise to suspect that one might be lacking vital information, it's rude to tell most of us that we "need a reality check". You don't know any more about this case than the rest of us. (Unless you're actually involved in this case, or know somebody who is. And if so, hey, share some of that sweet insider info!)
Cauldrons of bubbling potions
With evenings of chemical mixing
Will propel the cops through their motions
To find out what you are fixing.
Up next: 50% of the population to be charged with "being able to commit rape".
Demidan, gas powered forges have come a long way; although there are still some advantages to the extra carbon provided by coal when pattern-welding, you can hammer-weld with a modern gas rig. The gas forge is cleaner, cheaper and healthier for you and your immediate family and neighbors.
Off-topic again! Sorry. Um, I have a large collection (50+ pieces) of scientific glassware, and I occasionally use it to home-brew whatever I happen to need, so I guess I'm living on the edge. There, I think I dragged the topic back?
--Charlie
@ Tom Hale #23
'm jst prtndng t b dsmvwld s y dn't fl lnly.
We had a guy arrested for making rocket motors in his garage, but at least our cops had the good sense to release him. Kept his chemicals, though.
I think he's the same guy who made the rocket powered bike.
Poor gardeners/farmers are next. Bag of fertilizer and drum of oil can mean only one thing - they are TERRORISTS!!one!!11
Exactly how did I imply the kid had it coming?
Is this OK? - Any law enforcement agency should (and probably do) have standing orders to detain anyone operating an advanced chemistry lab until the lab can be fully investigated. In detaining the teenage chemist, the police were most likely doing as trained and taking precautions that were in the best interest of the community. In the city I live in, the police would have detained the kid, isolated the lab, and called the Haz Mat team. If there were dangerous chemicals or chemicals commonly used to make explosives, the kid would have been kept in police custody until an investigation proved that he was conducting harmless experiments.
I doubt that the kid knew he was doing something that may look suspicious or illegal to the police. I know I, as well as my kids (under supervision), have conducted a few experiments with explosives and flammable materials that are definitely illegal. Its a shame that these days a kid can't have a little fun and learn some things not taught by our schools without worrying about being seen as a possible menace.
Tom,Perhaps your children should have called the hazmat team,you know, "taking precautions that were in the best interest of the community".
Hey, I never made anything that could blow up something bigger than a bread box. Plus, doing experiments, blowing stuff up, and making messes with everyday household items gets your kids interested in science. Looks like it's paid off, my oldest son wants to major in chemical engineering.
next they will attack bio-hackers. Having a home DNA lab will become "terrorism".
I can't find the exact link I was looking for, about home-sequencing, and the new 'security threat'.
It's a TED talk, and the presenter talks about doing research on the flu virus, and they request a sample from some official body - who tells them to just download it from somewhere and sequence themselves (this gets a laugh). He then goes on to describe how easy these type of things are to do, and how increasingly easy it will be to generate designer viruses etc.
It's very interesting though, I'll keep looking.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081225/ap_on_sc/do_it_yourself_dna
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=x5yPkxCLads
It's already been done. :(
Next they'll come for our strong crypto! and then our computers! and then our guns!
..I found lots of talks suggesting similar ideas, but not the exact one.
Juan Enriquez
Craig Venter 1
Craig Venter 2
Check em out, anyway.
I personally have a similar experience. I like to brew beer. After making a batch of porter, I set some glass carbouys and some hoses and stuff outside the door of a small shed behind the house. The local Constable came by, with a neighbor who doesn't like me, and both of them let themselves in through the unlocked back door of my house. they allege that they were trying to serve some sort of civil warrant to a person who has never lived there and who's very existence is questionable.
I come home to find that my house had been raided by the local meth task force. Their application for the warrant said that there was a flat of pot plants growing beside my front door (it turne out that it was holy basil), and that there was a meth lab in plain view.
Even after finding nothing but a baggie with a few pot seeds in it in a closet, they siexed all sorts of things such as a shoplight (aka grow light), a mortar and pestle (aka pill crusher) and a poster hanging over the stove that was labeled 'edible mushrooms of the world'.
They come and arrest me the next day at work where I am teaching English to migrant children.
Even though they found NOTHING listed on the warrant, they still charged me with conspiracy to manufacture schedule VI drugs. Having a small baggie with maybe 20 or so seeds in a bedroom closet and a shoplight (2 40w 48" fluorescent tubes) in the kitchen closet is enough to get you a felony charge (to justify your 15+ officer raid).
Upon getting bailed out ($1000) and retaining a good lawyer ($5000) and going to court all day for four workdays, the charges were all dropped with prejudice. Still no apology, no retraction in the local small town paper, and no one even got a reprimand.
Even though I Still had about $2500 I could spend, none of the 50+ lawyers were willing to take such a clear cut civil rights case. The ACLU flatly refuses to involve themselves in ANY drug related cases, and every other lawyer had an excuse as well. They ranged from the fact that there are very few civil rights attorneys to the fact(?) that if they had ever represented the local police departments involved that representing me in a case where they could potentially be held liable was a conflict of interest.
It is said that a good lawyer knows the law but a great lawyer knows the judge. In a small town, you really don't want to get into a fight with people you will see everyday in the courtroom for the next 10 years.
They had a checklist for spotting meth labs, It involved things like coffee filters, colanders, coleman camp fuel, and many other things an average house may have. It seems to me that any well equipped kitchen could be repurposed to make a variety of illicit things. The most crazy ones on the list were "doesn't seem to have a regular job/ keeps strange hours" tied with "goes outside to smoke"
Sooo the lesson is: If you have a hobby that your knuckle-dragging moron neighbors/ Irish cops don't understand.....beware and hide and pretend you aren't reading this!
,,,,,,,,;'''''...?!
as please be for to inserting the above punctuation where needed to repel grammar nazi's . I teach english good job;
get a country place. Keep pigs. Own a backhoe. The cars take a little imagination. (NB: GPS is common these days so a tarp sized chunk of fine copper mesh gives you time to find them.
BuckSnort, what has the 'Irish' to do with the 'cops'?
If they aren't Gardaà SÃochána, I'm gonna be pissed.
If you have ever visited some of our finer cities like Chicago or Boston or even New York, you will find that there are some 4th or 5th generation Irish cops who have risen in their ranks not due to even mere competence, but rather through nepotism.
Being of mostly Irish ancestry myself, I cannot state firmly, because of innate biases, that all diasporates from this beloved isle are either as dense or drunken as myself. This perception (true or not) was the thing being poked fun at, perhaps next time I will try to find some better way to indicate my sarcasm despite my dislike of emoticons.
Everyone knows that the only racial group one can hate with impunity is the Dutch. Those damned gouda-munching tulip benders are the bane of any decent mans existence and caused all the real problems in American history. New Amsterdam my ass ye clog carvin' windmill burners. Don't even get me started about all those dykes.
you can always tell a Dutchman. But you can't tell him much.
Jokes aside, I'm gonna be clear on this. If you live in America, for five generations, you are American. Or at the very least Irish-American. You are certainly not plain old Irish - and you don't get to go around lashing slurs like we're all on the same team in jokey spirit.
We are not, and we have taken enough shit from all corners to leave that kind of profiling to someone with even less love for us than you. I understand the idea of 'institutional Irish', but it is by definition institutional, not personal.
I also understand wanting to call Irish-American cops 'Irish', because of course the 'American' is redundant for you.. but if that leads you to a normalised view of these cops being 'Irish', or behaving in an 'Irish' way, then you are doing us both a disservice.
Also, funny as it may be, my Dutch family will kick your ass for that other shit.
"like we are all on the same team"
We are on the same team!
In case it wasn't made clear by my previous post I am poking fun by demonstrating the absurdity of race-baiting. I am, by going a wee bit over the top with some humor which borders on bad taste in order to show how outmoded thinking of people in the 'us vs. them' paradigm is.
It is this very dehumanizing paradigm, reducing whole categories of men to mere stereotypes, which leads to groups of armed, masked, jackbooted men going overboard to protect us from them.
I was trying to dispel some tension by bringing some humor in.
I do think if you live in a community where people still speak some Irish Gaelic and where you can buy Irish cigs in the stores and where the local bars have tip jar style collections for the 'patriots' in the IRA back home, then you can still make some claim to having some sort of Celtic identity. If you know all the words to 'Kevin Barry' or 'The Rising of the Moon', a tattoo from the 'Book of Kells' and have a candle burning in front of a picture of the pope visible from your front door, it is obvious that you are asserting some sort of claim of connection to those back in the counties. The fact that cops whose families are of the Irish extraction are viewed askew, no matter what their merit, is not my creation. I did make up the part in which the Celts are known for their appreciation of fine spirits.
No matter what ethnic flavor you bring, you are always welcome at my table where what makes us different is celebrated as much as that we hold in common. If we cannot laugh at ourselves then we are doomed.
Buck, I'll take your words here at face value (positively), but also point out that neither of your two previous posts did any dispelling of stereotypes - sarcastically or otherwise - to my ear.
All the things you described are, indeed, indicative of an Irish heritage, but it is just that, heritage.
I wasn't trying to create a further 'us and them', we don't need it, but I was pointing out that the habits of Irish Americans, are not necessarily those of the Irish, and it would be foolish to think they were. For a lot of Irish people, the things we see in the diaspora feel like vague caricatures of who we are, or things from 50 years ago that we have left behind - but which others choose to hang on to.
Like the IRA tip jars. They are quite a source of anger and shame to many in Ireland, beyond whether you agree with a 32 county Ireland, or not.
I'm definitely not saying either is 'realer' or anything so elitist, just that you should own the Irish-American identity, because it isn't strictly Irish - it's its own thing. Nor do I think you made up the Irish-cop thing, it's well known, but in mostly negative/corrupt ways. Sadly, probably better known than the thousands of Irish people who fought in the civil war, or built the east coast infrastructure - railroads, canals, sewers etc., and died doing so.
Genuinely, I'm happy to laugh at myself and my culture, and happy for friends to join in. But sometimes it's wise to find out whether a stranger doing the poking is doing it for the right reasons.
Not jackbooted, but maybe over a pint.. sure I can always kill you after :)
Also, thanks for the invitation, consider it appreciated and returned.
oh dear...i suppose i should be in jail. when i was little growing up in the 60's my parents bought me the gilbert chemistry sets (back when they actually came stocked with chemicals that were *dangerous* if used *kaff* "correctly"}. heck one of my first "experiments" was making and setting upom my family a working chlorine gas generator which made our house unlivable for a few hours.
yeah, i caught heck for it from my dad but he let me keep the set. 20 years later i got a masters in chemistry and one in physics too.
i can say *most* people with such degrees easily have the training to:
1) make home growm gunpowder, explosives, stink bombs, thermite, smoke bombs
2) build devices like cutting lasers
3) could *easily* synthesize/extract many, many illegal/legal drugs, such as meth, synthetic thc, dmt, stp, and and lsd as a synthesis if they're clever or an extraction if they're lazy.
my point is the police/homeland security are wasting their time arresting this kid for mere knowledge and academic curiosity.
they might s well round up every chemist/professor/pharmacist/physicist in the u.s. for learning and practicing/having fun with their trades.
i've seen what passes for a chem set nowadays: they suck, you couldn't do a thing exciting with them. no wonder fewer children are growing up interested in the sciences today. watered down/censored equipment, paranoid harassment from authorities, political interferance/suppression of scientific research...phooey.
heh...i've got a *great* recipie for synthetic phlegm. great for laughs at halloween...makes buckets. haul me away, i've been a baaaad girl.
ummm OK, can we... ah... spank you for awhile first?
Spankings? ..I ran as quick as I could!
As a neighbour of this boy, I can assure you that this is a nice kid who is a chemistry keener and he's not remotely sinister. A little naive perhaps but given his age, understandable. The police have clearly overreacted and have jumped to conclusions without having the expertise to properly assess the situation. Meth? Absolutely not. The whole situation as it currently stands is absurd.
And while I'm glad to know that the police are actively investigating suspicious chemistry enthusiasts to save us from people who might potentially blow up the neighbourhood, an appropriate preliminary investigation would have prevented this from escalating to actual charges. What this poor family has had to endure since early December is a crime for which they are unlikely to get an apology, though there has been some clear back-pedaling via the local paper. I would hope that the family will eventually get some satisfaction through court mandated compensation.
Meanwhile, would someone please offer this enthusiastic kid a scholarship or a summer internship and put his enthusiasm and self-taught knowledge to good use?