Susie Bright: My Little Chat with Playboy Today
Hi Susie,
Our new issue, on newsstands next week, includes a list I compiled of the "55 Most Important People in Sex" of the past 55 years.
I wanted to see if you might like to respond with a letter to the editor that addresses anyone you feel is ranked too high or too low -- and/or argue for anyone who isn't on the list but should be.
We plan to publish responses in the April issue. Thanks for considering it.
Chip Rowe
Senior Editor
Playboy Magazine
Hi Chip,
You should be on the list. So should I!
I'm sure you can guess; your list pissed me off - it has way too many sad pin-up girls, who are only there because of some Svengali in their lives, not because of their own efforts or sexual initiative. There's not a single man of that ilk on the list.
And how about Terry Southern?...
I do like the many scientists you included, because people will be amazed to know their achievements. The real question is, who does one have to sleep with to get on the list?
Susie
(Keep reading -- there's much more after the jump!)
You actually were on the short list, but let's just say I lost some arguments about the final 20.Tell me two or three names of women you would have included!
Chip
Okay... Where is Simone de Beauvoir, Shere Hite, or Pat Califia? Joani Blank, Anais Nin, Pauline Réage?
Then there's gay liberation. How can we imagine sexual revolution without it? Kinsey was bisexual. Dan Savage deserves a place near the top.
S.
Wonderful! In my defense, the list is limited to last 55 years; de Beauvoir's most influential work, The Second Sex, was from 1949- and Nin is best known for her erotic diaries from the 1930s, although they weren't published until the 1960s, so you have me there. Story of O was 1953, although that's certainly close enough. Dan Savage and Southern, those are good.
Chip
Señor,
Okay, I actually chewed over those elder entries! Beavoir almost single-handedly led French feminism in 60s & 70s, w/out being a prude, like Steinem.
And Anais made the decision to release Delta of Venus, et al, on 70s , when they had greatest impact
The best known names are always dead, sadly. I can't wait for my posthumous PB tribute!
SB
Susie,
Good points. Can I add that comment about Beauvoir?
Here's the list:
1 Alfred Kinsey
2 Dr. John Rock
3 Hugh Hefner
4 Alex Comfort
5 Marilyn Monroe
6 Monica Lewinsky
7 The Rolling Stones
8 Timothy Berners-Lee
9 Peter Dunn and Albert Wood
10 Madonna
11 Helen Gurley Brown
12 Charles Ginsburg
13 Ruth Westheimer
14 Elvis Presley
15 Masters and Johnson
16 Howard Stern
17 Ed Meese
18 Brigitte Bardot
19 Estelle Griswold
20 Bo Derek
21 Catharine MacKinnon
22 Vladimir Nabokov
23 Anita Bryant
24 Farrah Fawcett
25 Erica Jong
26 Barney Rosset
27 Germaine Greer
28 Christine Jorgensen
29 Pamela Anderson
30 Frank Sinatra
31 Nancy Friday
32 Jenna Jameson
33 William O. Douglas
34 Philip Roth
35 Charles Keating Jr.
36 Candace Bushnell
37 Dr. Mary Calderone
38 Beverly Whipple
39 Alberto Vargas
40 Potter Stewart
41 Linda Lovelace
42 Mike Nichols
43 Betty Dodson
44 Dr. David Reuben
45 Ian Fleming
46 Lenny Bruce
47 Gloria Steinem
48 Robert Mapplethorpe
49 Danni Ashe
50 J. Edgar Hoover
51 Gay Talese
52 Rock Hudson
53 Bernardo Bertolucci
54 Dell Williams
55 Rudi Gernreich
the latest
latest episodes
I wonder... is this the same Chip Rowe who wrote The Book Of Zines: Readings From The Fringe?
Good call on Patrick Califia - his work has probably informed my own path more than anyone else mentioned.
Where the hell is Bettie Page? (RIP)
Bo Derek? Just because she starred in some overrated 70's film as the object of a stalker's pathetic lust? And what has Farah Fawcett done that is at all important (to other people, of course) regarding sexuality?
You, Susie, should indeed be on the list. And I'd say Nina Hartley is a far more important porn star than Jenna Jameson. And though she's (relatively) new to the pleasure-activist scene, I'd give a shoutout to Tristan Taormino.
@#3 GretaGretchen:
Came here to light that fire as well.
And also to be considered is Xavier Hollander.
Larry Flynt? D.H. Lawrence? Freud? Tiny Tim? Devine?
I also happen to be a very gifted lover although few people know this about me.
how about tom of finland?
Wow. I totally agree there are some asinine choices in there (mostly amongst the gals). I wish I could send a letter and critique the list as well, but I'm afraid I wouldn't have Susie's knowledge to back it up and make as strong a case.
I just can't believe Monica Lewinsky is on there. She's no sex revolutionary; just a dimwit who naively walked into a situation that blew (literally) out of proportions. And if Marilyn is on there (although I'm sure it simply cannot be avoided), Betty Page should rate higher on the list: She was a truly liberated woman who acted out of her own beliefs and confidence. Marilyn was mostly driven by deep-seated issues and vulnerability. Yeah, she was gorgeous and had a tragic story, but she wasn't exactly liberated; mainly lost, sad and needy.
The people who compiled that list clearly don't read enough books (the ones without big, glossy pictures).
Glad to see MacKinnon on there. But what about Sue Johanson?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue_Johanson
Hell, she even got the Order of Canada for her impact on sexual health and education in this country.
who needs to see to find the g-spot ?
Maurice Girodias. John C. Holmes. Allen Ginsberg. Norman Mailer. Al Goldstein. Raquel Welch. Jacqueline de Bouvoir Kennedy Onassis. Sophia Loren. Marilyn Chambers Andrea Dworkin. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Bring it on, Bright! Buddy66, a list of names doesn't cut it. You have to make your case. I'd like to hear the one for Jackie O. My argument for Monica Lewinsky? Without her, Gore wins the election, and no Iraq war. I also would say that while Patrick is definitely on a slightly longer list, he has not had the influence on the popular culture as that simple poster of Farrah Fawcett.Most of the people who have written letters in response so far have been convincing, although I'll never admit that.
I always need to see to find the g-spot. That's why I keep an endoscope by the bed.
Sekino - It's not the most awesome people, it's the most important, and for whatever reason, Monica was the center of the biggest sexual debate of the 90s.
As for Bettie Page, she's right on the border of 55 years, so maybe that accounts for the glaring omission. However, regarding Bettie vs. Marilyn, I recently read an article about Marilyn (in Parade, so take that for what it is) suggesting her public image as a tragic, childlike figure is romanticized; she really was more self-made and clever than she is given credit for. So maybe there's room for both of them.
Susie, you should definitely be there.
And what about Annie Sprinkle?
And John Cameron Mitchell?
Jackie O was the first sexy and glamorous First Lady. Can you imagine Warhol appropriating Bess Truman's image? Jackie was stalked by paparazzi, photographed topless — imagine a topless Eleanor Roosevelt! — and had one of the sexiest voices ever. You're too young to have been turned on by Jackie, but I can assure you...
I guess you had to be there.
If my list is not self-explanatory, you weren't there.
Wow, I had no idea Chip Rowe had become the Playboy Advisor... When I was 14 I saw him, Tristan Taormino, Pagan Kennedy and some other '90's zine celebrities do a talk about selling out at the Printer's Row bookfair in Chicago. Who knew they would all become so damn successful!
I have to say, I doubt this list is dumb because the people that write it aren't literate enough. It's because the people that READ it aren't, they (for the most part) won't know who a lot of the missing names other commentors have mentioned are.
"You weren't there so you wouldn't know"? I can make a list of hundreds of important people in sex since 1955 -- the task is to decide who are in the top 55. That's the case you have to make. I don't think you can for Jackie O, or just say "etc. etc."
The reason Marilyn Monroe is important, besides her status as an enduring global sex star, is that when the nudes of her taken in 1949 came out in 1952 after she had achieved stardom, she didn't shrink away in disgrace but embraced them as works of art. That's when the famous "nothing on but the radio" line appeared in the celebrity press. And rather than being shunned as a "fallen woman," she became even more popular.
Jackie O was the first sexy and glamorous First Lady.
Are you saying you wouldn't want to tap this?
no john holmes or seka? seriously, porn doesn't count?
If you're going to inflate the numbers with a whole group like the Stones, I suggest The New York Dolls as well. And how about the other Marilyn, Mr. Manson.
NickeyRobo, that wasn't a criterion I used, whether a reader would have heard of someone. There are a number of "obscure" names on the list. The list is not "dumb." Some entries may be dumb, and we can debate rankings, but I'd have a hard time believing anyone would disagree with more than 50 percent of them. So at best it's only half dumb.
Bettie Page should have most certainly been on that list!!!
http://www.bettiepage.com/obit/obit.html
Are you serious Laamish? Marilyn Manson? The Dolls? Jackie O would be No. 1 on that list.
Porn is well represented by Linda Lovelace and Jenna Jameson. No porn performer has had more influence than Jenna Jameson. She crossed over.
Ted Haggard?
Glad they thought of Mapplethorpe. Agreed that Nin and de Beauvoir need to be on the list, and in the top half at that. They're at least as important as Nabokov.
Ernest Angely, Tom Jones, The lead singer for The Darkness, Peter Berlin, Golda Meir, Mata Hari, Jenny Lind,
It's not a dumb list at all. But it will be if you exclude Jackie O. I made my case, but I'll repeat: Jackie O was the first sexy and glamorous First Lady.
No, Antinous, I'm not turned on by Mary Todd. I married two crazy ladies (my weakness) and am of an age that lunacy no longer appeals to me.
Being free of sexual desire is, to almost quote Socrates, like being freed from servitude to a cruel and insane master.
Sekino - It's not the most awesome people, it's the most important, and for whatever reason, Monica was the center of the biggest sexual debate of the 90s.
Yes, it involved sex, but Bill Clinton's position as president created the debate more than Monica herself. She could have been anyone (and I'm sure hundreds of girls have been giving head to presidents). So, no: Monica wasn't important, Bill Clinton was. Otherwise, we'd never, ever have even heard of her.
And BTW yes: Sorry for the hatin' on Marilyn. I just feel she has already secured the ubiquitous sex-symbol of the century award and it's nice to hear of less-celebrated but equally important people sometimes.
That's why I said it was probably unavoidable to have her on the list, but my instant reaction was 'Of course. Next!'
I admit my threshold of boredom is very low ;)
Susie's right, Terry Southern is essential.
"Candy" may be more obscure today than "Lolita" and "Naked Lunch," but was published by the same smut peddler in Paris in the late-fifties and after its initial legal limbo, finally released in the states in the mid-sixties— catapulting into an international bestseller that was credited as being a major cultural touchstone of the emerging sexual revolution.
Combined with his contributions to "Barbarella" and "Easy Rider," the publication of "Blue Movie" and convincing Stanley Kubrick to direct "A Clockwork Orange," Southern has to be somewhere on that list.
Sekino,
you're right. And Clinton could have fixed it.
If he was more of an American and less of a self-serving son of a bitch, he would have done the decent thing and resigned, thus locking Al Gore in place as the sitting president and almost guaranteeing Bush's challenge. The Oval Office is a bully pulpit.
So Clinton elected Bush, not Lewinsky.
Sorry...
almost guranteeing Bush's DEFEAT...
Buddy66@31: You lived through the Kennedy administration and you think Clinton ought to have resigned for getting a BJ? Kennedy was sleeping with mobsters' mistresses. Roosevelt had a live-in lover, even Bush Sr. had an affair. Sexual shenanigans in the White House are par for the course.
Thalia,
Sure they are, but the press didn't touch that stuff. All we heard were rumors, if anything. The media stayed away. The Gary Hart challenge changed all that. Clinton was the first president to get fingered for sexual shenanigans.
No, I don't think Clinton should have resigned over a blowjob; he should have resigned to keep Bush out of the presidency. I don't give a damn about the sex lives of the rich and famous, any more than I do about the poor and unknown.
Forgive me for contributing to the digression...
If Bill Clinton had simply said, "I *did* have sex with that woman", he could have saved us all a lot of grief.
As Nixon taught us, sometimes it's not the crime, it's the cover-up.
Actually, if President Clinton had said, "STFU. It's none of your business" he would have set a nice precedent for keeping government out of people's sex lives.
Agreed, Antinous.
Thinking back, I remember wishing Monica had realized Kenneth Starr was a creepy old perv asking for an *ahem* blow-by-blow account of her sex life.
And wishing Clinton said, "A gentleman doesn't talk about such things and a decent human being doesn't ask about them."
I never understood how the question was asked in the first place.
Elvis "The Pelvis" Presley I can see. His blatant on-stage sexiness, his short-of-orgasmic facial expressions and his notorious hip gyrations put some serious cracks into the pack ice that had formed over American sexuality in the 1950's. But as good as the Stones were back in the day, I cannot recall any significant sexual ground that they broke.
@#39,
I'm sure the first thing cited would be their 1967 hit "Let's Spend the Night Together," but if it were me telling you about that, and not just me breaking the "The Stones actually did some stuff" ice, I'd also have to relate Bowie's Prince-defining cover of the song in 1973, Prince's being one of the many descendants of James Brown, James Brown, and, when I finally got down to it, Little Richard and his first hit, "Tutti Fruitti," which makes the 1955 cut exactly, not to mention is as good of an original root of rock'n'roll (you know, the most popular of all "it originally meant 'have sex'" genres) as you can come up with.
I ask with no snottiness or sarcasm, but rather honest curiosity/confusion: Why Pamela Anderson?
I don't see John Waters on the list. I'm not a big fan of his work, but he's certainly been influential in bringing sexual sub-cultures onto the big screen.
Wow! Sex is interesting!
There are some idiotic selections (Monica Lewinsky? please!) and some blatant omissions, but I'm willing to forgive a lot to a list of the "most important people in sex" that includes Catherine MacKinnon. I bet she's furious.
Please pardon my ignorance, but Charles Keating? Is that the same dude as from the S&L bullshit back in the 80's? What's his sex link?
BTW my 2 cents is a big NO on Monica Lewinsky, but a YEAH on Marilyn Monroe.
@41, I am 21, so my generation was mire in the stage of making fun of Pamela Anderson, but I hear tell that she was the fantasy of many (nearly every?) a man in the United States?
Papeirmeister:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Keating
Look at section 4: Anti-pornography crusading.
Most of the folks I know with sex positive attitudes love, read, and learn from Susie Bright.
Most of the educators I know around sex and the erotic love, read, and learn from Susie Bright.
I'm a learner and a teacher, and I read Susie (over and over!).
She belongs on the list!
(and for consideration: Annie Sprinkle is not on the list, and, tho it is difficult to admit but true, Larry Flint has had vast importance around our national view of sex, power, and freedom.)
Susie Bright belongs on the list absolutely!
Love on,
Robert Allen
www.roguetantra.com
Dan Savage, Dan Savage, Dan Savage!!!