Rumsfeld's decision a "direct cause" for POW abuse, says bipartisan Senate report
A bipartisan Senate report concluded that decisions by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld were a "direct cause" of inhumane treatment of POWs.
Of course, the only thing that will happen as a result of this report is that President Bush will give Rummy a medal.The report, endorsed by Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee, is the most forceful denunciation to date of the role that Rumsfeld and other top officials played in the prisoner abuse scandals of the last five years.
The document also challenges assertions by senior Bush administration officials that the most egregious cases of prisoner mistreatment were isolated incidents of appalling conduct by U.S. troops.
"The abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own," the report says.
Instead, the document says, a series of high-level decisions in the Bush administration "conveyed the message that physical pressures and degradation were appropriate treatment for detainees in U.S. military custody."
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natural justice demands Rummy (and the rest) swing for war crimes. Up til now, that just don't happen.
Take heart in the chaos you find yourself in, after it's had another year to ripen, all the old "agreements" will be void. I think there is an excellent chance that the others will hand them over.
Does the report actually refer to the victims as POWs rather than detainees or some other "we are going to pretend this is a grey area? term? If so that is a really, really huge change in language.
In response to this article, I think I speak for all of BoingBoing when I say:
"Well, duh."
When you say "direct cause", do you mean "proximate cause." Because I've seen enough episodes of Law and Order to know where that's headed.
We won't see any accountability under Nancy Pelosi's House or Harry Reid's Senate.
There's plenty of evidence to support this from the last 4 years.
You can call your Rep. and tell them you do not have confidence in the Speaker. I did.
Any bets on Bush making a broadbrush preemptive pardon to cover these people?
That said, I wouldn't be shocked to find Rummy Rummy and some of the others getting grabbed overseas for war crimes trial like Pinochet.
What AMGUN said in #3.
Any bets on Bush making a broadbrush preemptive pardon to cover these people?
I'd be surprised if he didn't. But the next administration will probably still pardon them. The first administration that doesn't grant a pardon will likely be the second administration that doesn't receive a pardon. It's a powerful incentive to continue the tradition.
when the second administration has a homeless, jobless mob with pitchforks outside the White House, the first administration will make history.
"inhuman treatment of POWs"
The terms "human" and "humane" are so similar, leading to ironic mis-spellings like this.
I'm now impressed by the foresight shown by the Conservatives in refusing to sign the international war crimes agreements and their criticism of Clinton for doing so without guarantees that it wouldn't apply to US officials and military.
Ian @10, it wasn't foresight. They're all acquainted with Henry Kissinger.
I'm impressed by my foresight in refusing to sign speeding limits, parking regulations, and anything else. Even with guarantees that laws in those areas wouldn't apply to me or my buddies.
Thing with International Law: you don't get to say "Yeah, doesn't apply to me!" when convenient. You break the law, you broke the law.
Of course, the refusal of the US to allow an International Court of Justice is a willful example of disrespect for the rule of law, human rights, et al.
No US President will ever be accused of war crimes, thus is one of the perks of being a superpower.
Now, if you're a small European or Middle-Eastern country, on the other hand...
more I think about it, it's inevitable. They committed the crimes while in the process of lining their pockets. The torture and mass murder by proxy of a phony war were incidental to them since the idea was to loot the national treasury first and foremost. I guess they genuinely thought their supreme wealth would shield them if they couldn't steal a third term, but stupid as evil is, they honestly couldn't seen the depths of the economic damage they wrought. When the hunger bites and the cops can't handle the jobless workers without full-on military support, of course they will feed the actual architects of the ruin to the enraged people. It will be unavoidable. It will be necessary. It will be just.
Funny how things sometimes work out.
Thing with International Law: you don't get to say "Yeah, doesn't apply to me!" when convenient.
Actually, that pretty much sums up the entirety of international relations. Well, that and closed-door deals.
Takuan envisions a "French Revolution". My reading of Dickens tells me that such a thing doesn't result in justice done to the wicked alone.
That said, a truly just world would see the current administration's necks in a noose 'til breath surcease.
It won't happen. The U.S. will face severe hard times, but is not at the cliff edge yet. I think the power will bleed away, not be taken in a sudden collapse. Only when a collapse happens do the all powerful and evil suffer.
Still Tak, I admire your enthusiasm.
revolution? hell no! Business as Usual! Think it through; no one really wants the total chaos of revolution, they want hope and revenge. Executing the Cheney Mob will prove the rule of laws still applies, satisfy the anger by punishing the guilty, give meaning to the survival struggle commencing and make Obama's administration look good. Everybody wants this except a handful of criminals. How is doing what everyone wants to do "revolution"? The people want it, the legitimate government wants it. Hell,vote on it,even the terminally moronic two-time Bush voters will be on board after six months with no work.
I don't think Bush will pardon Rumsfeld or that many others. I think he genuinely believes they've done nothing wrong. Anyway, can you preemptive pardon? If Rummy or Gonzales or esp. Yoo have not been charged with a crime how can they be pardoned?
You give the two-timers too much credit. They are and will remain committed. That's 25% that will not support you and yours (mine?) come what may. That leaves another 50 % to waffle. And so, the remaining 25% will split apart amid interpretation and reinterpretation. You're 20 years too early.
didn't I post something a few months ago about Bush had already pre-pardoned himself at least?
Antinous -- Direct cause, no intervening cause(s) between the act and the effect under discussion. Proximate cause, law recognizes that once you get past simple mechanics, the why of things is infinite, but a good jury can usually sort out one or more reasonably causative cause(s). Former establishes liability; latter is more a scope of liability thing.
Where is that headed when it's on Law and Order?
Noen, Bush pardons to protect himself. Look at Scooter Libby. Patrick Fitzgerald's favorite bargaining season is between conviction and sentencing, when the perp knows he isn't going to get out of this one. Libby was pardoned almost as soon as he was declared guilty.
It's easy to issue pardons if you don't care about justice or the law. I'm sure that if Bush could issue blank pardons -- essentially, secular indulgences -- he'd do it.
Where is that headed when it's on Law and Order?
When someone utters the words 'proximate cause', the next scene is probably going to be the arraignment.
i am still waiting for the false flag op that will make it necessary to institute martial law. i mean, they got alla those fima camps just sittin there, empty. a grievous waste of taxpayer dough. plus, i think there are, like, $14.00 left in the treasury that hasn't been pillaged, yet. shameful.
well, they'll feed the army first so they can control the hordes of starving civilians. Wonder how long til the money for the army's food runs out?
Bush's pardon would have no effect on an International War Crimes Tribunal. Rummy and the Gang will have to be careful where they travel internationally. (I hear Argentina is safe, though).
There's a lot of speculation as to who Bush will give presidential pardons to, and lets face it he doesn't need to worry about the effect it will have on the voters.
In terms of what's going to happen, the Bush administration had better pray the world goes into recession deeper than the US, otherwise the 'super' will be gone from the power and the US will be a common or garden world power. At which point the Bush cabal'll be facing international trials.
I think these would cover the crimes commited
“Crimes against peace” - planning an aggressive war. Preparing for war financially, physically, or ideologically.
“War Crimes” - violations of the law of war.
“Crimes against Humanities” - violations of human rights.
The above being the crimes the Nazis were actually charged with at Nuremberg. Kinda makes you think.
Picture Rummy making office furniture in a prison sweatshop. Or wearing an orange work release jumpsuit and picking up condoms, pampers, and broken bottles from the side of a highway. Or using an overpriced pay phone to beg his former friends to send money so he could buy a new toothbrush from the canteen.
Try it. Great mood lifter.
if they were kidnapped in Argentina and taken to an applicable jurisdiction, a tradition would be observed.
@Stefan
I prefer to visualise Rummy being treated as an enemy combatitant, extraordinarily rendered to a (or several) sympathetic third world country(/ies) where he'd be duly processed for information about the rest of his neo-con terror cell, to finally end up in a prison camp in Iraq, where he'd be forced to re-enact every single one of the images from Abu Gairab including the ones they didn't publish in the news papers.
The actual news here is that this comes from the Senate. Armed Services Committee. Finally, with only five weeks of the Cheney presidency to go.
And now for the crucial paragraphs:
You know when you're looking at a picture of a really cool new gadget, and then you read the caption saying it's just a concept. That always pisses me off. I'm like, "Show me the damn thing once it's finished and real!". But most probably, it'll get stuck in design phase.
I kinda have that same emotion about these stories indicating that some people responsible for the policies of the Bush-administration will be held accountable.
Nice concept.
Please, don't use "Rummy". It physically hurts...
Rumsfeld's a guilty flunky - Bush is the Mastermind, he's the "decider", the buck stops there...but actually he was selected by the Republican Party. Sic 'em. The Repub Party is apparently a criminal organization facilitating the use of US Gov assets to commit horrible crimes. The directing minds of the Repub party are guilt of conspiracy to commit these crimes.
Go after the bosses, as well as the hands-on guys. All the way up the chain...
It could be these same "minds" have something to do with the Democratic party...seem to share SecDefs....maybe this is why, other than being used US domestic political fodder for the 'chattering classes', these crimes will never be prosecuted.
Control both sides of the Aisle, as "insurance".
Oh sorry I meant:
To ensure a that a consistent bi-partisan foreign policy is followed in the interests of the Nation.
Not to ensure legal impunity for advocating policies leading directly to the torturing and slaughtering foreign nationals on their own soil. That could not be what I meant.
When things start getting really shitty for the U.S as a result of the financial situation, more and more people will start thinking very hard how and why they got there.
The money pissed away on the war(s) is a significant factor, and the men and women who planned and executed the was(s) are now phenominally rich as a result.
Bush and his administration deserve to hang for what they have done to the U.S and the world.
UGLY CANUCK: "Bush is the mastermind"
Now come on, you really can't expect us to take that remark seriously.
Teehee, mastermind he said.
Sorry Marcel, Bush is the Master mind, just ask Schrodinger's cat...
there will be trials
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/24991066/bushs_final_fu/print
Isn't he cute?
http://www.rummybear.com/
Takuan "Hell,vote on it,even the terminally moronic two-time Bush voters will be on board after six months with no work."
Actually, if Kansas is any indication, if anything it will make them even more Republican. Remember, after eight years of BushCo (six with them controlling everything but the SCotUS), John "the Maverick" McCain and Sarah "also the Maverick" Palin still got almost half of the vote, and the Right only lost eight seats in the Senate and twenty in the House. You know whose fault it is that jobs are keep moving offshore? Liberals. Also, something about abortion and "Darwinism".
My question at this point is can the Dems do any better? 10.6 trillion dollars is a mighty big hole, and it ain't getting any shallower.
"well, they'll feed the army first so they can control the hordes of starving civilians. Wonder how long til the money for the army's food runs out?"
Like North Korea, but with Dear Leader in an expensive suit instead of Dr. Noish khakis?
I think you mean charged with war crimes. U.S. Presidents are accused of them all the time, just not by anybody who can or will do anything about it.
http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/saddam-rumsfeld.jpg
http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/index.html?siteSect=105&sid=1648385
It's essentially a case of "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?". Is Vegas running a line on the pardons?