The Right to Bear Pocket Knives
We hereby petition the incoming Obama administration for a modest change, an immediate change that would signal a new direction for air travelers, a new freedom for frequent fliers. Here it is: recognize the need of Americans in the friendly skies to bear tools that fit in their pocket, by which we mean the ever-so useful pocket knife, also known by its brand names, the Swiss Army Knife and the Leatherman Multi-tool.
Ever since 9/11, pocket knives and their owners have been separated at airport security checkpoints everywhere, never to be reunited. According to the TSA, knives are prohibited, except "for plastic or round bladed butter knives." Who carries a butter knife in his or her pocket or purse? The TSA's unhelpful "Summer Travel Tips" says: "Pocket knives, self-defense sprays and other potential weapons are also prohibited." What a huge misunderstanding! Pocket knives are tools. If you consider them to be weapons, certainly they are Weapons of minimal Destruction (WmD).
Talk about sweating the small stuff, missing the forest for the trees, looking for love in all the wrong places. If pocket knifes are prohibited, why are nail clippers and corkscrews allowed? Why not allow an all-in-one pocket knife, which best prepares a person for any emergency? Especially, what with emergencies on the rise!
We can bring screwdrivers, wrenches and pliers under seven inches on planes but not 3-inch pocket knives. Hammers and saws are not allowed, nor are cattle prods but none of these fit in your pocket. We don't seek permission to bring an entire toolchest but we need to go places with all the tools that a good pocket knife provides. Scissors and knitting needles were once confiscated but they are now permitted. The TSA could re-classify any of these humble items as potential weapons or as useful, personal tools.
So, on behalf of readers of Make magazine, I submit this petition with high hopes that the new administration will hear our plea. Many of us have been carrying Make's imposing Warranty Voider, a branded Leatherman Squirt, and we're losing them to the TSA. The prohibition seems absurd. We should be well-equipped when we travel.
On a recent trip, I had to buy safety razor blades and batteries, and back in my hotel room I found myself in a struggle with clamshell packaging that would not submit to fingernails and teeth. I regretted not having my pocket knife handy. No, I was mad that my pocket knife was unable to join me on my trip. Then, I had a flashback to when I went through airport security, where an elderly man was pulled aside by the TSA because attached to his keychain was a small pocket knife. Obviously, he had not reviewed the list of prohibited items. The poor man was upset at first; he did not understand that he had to remove the pocket knife from his keychain. This was hard enough for him to do but he couldn't believe that he also had to turn the pocket knife over to the TSA -- for keeps -- when he finished the task. He asked the TSA why they needed his pocket knife and the uninformed officer was unable to give him a satisfying answer. I thought to myself, pitifully, that I was glad I had not accidently brought along my pitiful pocket knife. In my hotel room, I felt bad that I had not responded with more empathy to my fellow travelers plight. Maybe I should spoken up then and there.
All I could think of was that another confiscated penknife was destined for Ebay, an abundance of utility without a home. How sad! You'd think the TSA would have the good sense to re-distribute the pocket knives to the truly needy.
The TSA prides itself on trapping innocent people. Here's a story found on the TSA site from April of this year.
On the morning of April 16, security officers in Wisconsin discovered a 4.5-inch knife hidden inside a Barbie doll box in a passenger's carry-on bag. When the passenger was questioned, he said that he forgot which Barbie doll box he put the knife in and thought the box with the knife was in his checked luggage.Should we be proud of the TSA for exposing a Wisconsin man's Barbie doll fetish and making him "surrender" his knife? I mean, the guy's from Wisconsin and he's surrendering. President-elect Obama should be sensitive to the idea that Americans shouldn't be surrendering to other Americans. We are not our own enemy.The passenger surrendered the knife, but had to re=book on another flight.
It's too bad Inauguration Day doesn't come earlier so that we could get this change in place for the busy holiday travel season. There's also another item on the list of prohibited items that's going to bring huge disappointment for the holidays: would you believe, Santa, that the TSA won't allow Americans to travel with snow globes in their carry-ons?
Another point to be made, although not as sharp as the others, is that many people have successfully carried pocket knifes through security without detection. Most of the time it is unintentional but they are surprised to find that the TSA didn't notice. A lot of prohibited items are not caught. I hear people bragging that water bottles go through just fine in the pockets of cargo pants. I now know that I can forget pulling out my personal toiletries, even those over 3 oz., because they go through in my carry-on without detection. I've come to rely on it. The TSA doesn't seem to notice. It's only when you're honest and declare that -- oops -- you've discovered a pocket knife on your person or in your carry-on, only then do you lose it. That's not a way to keep people honest.
So, if this tiny change is too much to ask, if we haven't made the case that pocket knives are safe and essential everyday personal items, indeed tools just like combs and toothbrushes, or like cellphones, consider quietly crafting a compromise whereby the TSA agrees that when a pocket knife passes through, the uninformed officers intentionally ignore it. Let's apply a "don't tell, don't ask" policy. I won't tell a TSA officer that I have brought my pocket knife with me and an officer won't ask me if I have one.
The new president won't even have to make this policy public but he can let us know. President Obama can give us a "wink-wink" when he names the new head of the TSA and we'll know that old policy is on its way out with Michael Chertoff and Kip Hawley. The AST thanks you in advance.
the latest
latest episodes
THREE WORDS: Duty-free Molotov Cocktails
Okay, a few more..
Why is it that you can go into any airport in the world and buy tax-free flammable alcohol at a duty-free shop and essentially set the entire interior of a plane afire with the vodka you just bought withing their "secured" area??
While I agree that airport security measures have gotten ridiculous to the point of inanity, I don't think there is any rule agaist having a knife in your checked baggage. If not, argument over.
I'm no friend of the overly-strict aspects of the TSA's policies, having had a 3-inch long hex wrench I used to adjust my amateur telesope confiscated from my wallet during an airport search. But c'mon, as much as a pocket knife (or even pen knife) is a tool, it's also a potential weapon. Check it in your bag, if you really need it at your destination. Airline safety is not an exact science (some of the permitted items are also capable of being used as weapons), but prohibiting knives as carry-ons is within the realm of reason. And will we have to hear this same victimy argument about kitchen knives, or switchblades, or...?
Too late, those greasy thugs already took mine!
"While I agree that airport security measures have gotten ridiculous to the point of inanity, I don't think there is any rule agaist having a knife in your checked baggage. If not, argument over."
...except that many travelers never check bags unless they're traveling for long periods.
Is this person actually suggesting that the public be permitted to carry pocket knives onto a plane? Perhaps I'm misreading this, but why would we want someone walking onto a plane with a folding tactical knife? And yes, those are pocket knives, typically with blade lengths between 3 and 4 inches. As for Leatherman tools and Swiss Army type knives, a blade is a blade. Someone with a bit of training can do enormous damage with a 2 inch blade. All such things should remain restricted to checked baggage.
Check out the artwork of Michelle Pred who uses all those knives to make American flags among other things.
http://michelepred.com/section/10467.html
We should go back to the anything with a blade under four inches rule that was in place prior to 9/11. While I still got hassled for carrying my Buck 110 (? been a while, that might not be right), and especially hassled for every Spyderco knife I ever carried with me (Endura, Police, or Bob Lum tanto), they were legal and I was always able to bring them on the plane with me, as well as my Leatherman or Swiss Army knife. How has confiscating/prohibiting my knives made us all safer?
They're not. At least, not on international flights.
Oh, and while I check my knives/tools in my checked luggage now, I have had my luggage lost for several days, which is no fun, and I have had stuff just disappear from my bags, which is even less fun, so I try to take everything valuable/useful with me in my carry on. It would be nice if I could go back to putting my leatherman, small screwdriver kit, and pocketknife in my carry on.
As stated in posts #2 and #3, one can always check a pocket knife in with one's bag.
Having said that, people that fly a lot for work tend to only have carry-on luggage as it speeds up the already tedious process of boarding and getting off planes.
I can understand these people being annoyed at having to hand in their tools. Specially if you consider the fact that you can just purchase a new Leatherman from a duty-free shop or indeed, buy the ingredients for a molotov cocktail as stated in post #1 - I'd go with perfume though. Shame to waste the vodka :)
Crap, first a scrip for Bifocals, now this! I AM getting OLD
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE AFRAID OF KNIVES!
In the Boy Scouts, we were taught to "be prepared" and part of that is having a knife with you at all times.
yes, knives can be used as weapons. So can the bifocals on my face. I can break the earpiece arm off, jab it into your jugular, and bleed you as dry as had I used a knife.
If you do truly buy into "knives kill people" then bury your head in the sand, stay home on your couch, and live in fear.
As an Eagle Scout from the old school? I feel naked when I leave the house without a pocketknife.
Lets ASSUME the plane crashes. And we survive. And we make it to an island. Where do you want my knife? in my luggage, in the plane, on the bottom of the ocean? Or in my pocket, ready to help us build a shelter, cut food, build tools? Survive longer?
Why WHY WHY are so many of this generation terrified of knives?
If I WAS on your flight, and a terrorist decided to make attempts? an armed public is better equipped to deal with it than a bunch of sheep.
TSA is Security Theater, and every stinking one of you that buys into it, and allows your rights to be given up for safety deserves what you get.
Sheep!
Crimeshark, that same person with that training could do just as much damage with a sharp flake of flint or obsidian, or even a ground piece of glass or plastic, none of which show up when you go through the metal detector. Hell, I've seen people walk through airport security with arrowhead necklaces, some of them quite ornate and with several arrowheads, each of which could be used in a terrible fashion. Oh noes! Should we ban jewelery now? Or perhaps just tacky touristy jewelery? :)
swiss army should start making swiss army knives without the knives but everything else (you can use the file to cut open packaging). Would that still be a problem?
the could call it the "American Model".
sure you want that?
P.E. Obama's about to upgrade to one of the biggest private planes in the world and never have to deal with the TSA again.
That said, I agree that I used to take a multitool on most of my BUSINESS TRIPS but that I will never consider buying them now because the only time I need them are when I'm traveling. When I'm home I have access to plenty of full sized specialist tools, and don't need the multitool.
Okay Mr. Smartypantses, how exactly are you going to ignite your Molotovodka Cocktail with your lighter having recently being confiscated at the gate? ;)
What is this - year 7 of Medieval Air Travel? I'm tired of it, but I think the current regulations have probably prevented some ugly stuff. I have to think that since flying is such a pain in the ass.
I doubt we'll ever go back to being allowed knives on planes - when a man can be beheaded merely riding a Greyhound, I'm afraid the writing is on the wall.
The bigger issue is that if knives and such are going to be banned, the measures to prevent them should be effective. To me that implies you should be searched WHEN YOU GET ON THE PLANE.
As it is, you pass through security and then wander in a mini-shopping mall at your leisure before boarding, without benefit of a further search.
What's to stop an evil-doer obtaining a bread-knife (for example) from an accomplice at a coffee shop? One swift move and it's up the sleeve and on the plane.
As an aside - I once found a box-cutter by the sink in the washroom at a major international airport, on the "safe" side of security. I went to tell security about it and it took the guy ten minutes to come and deal with it.
Hardly reassuring.
I want the TSA disbanded completely. There's no workable solution short of that.
Putting it in your checked baggage is no good, because they'll steal it. Yes, I mean the TSA. I know more than one person who has had things (even non-prohibited things) vanish from his or her luggage. (Even military uniforms. Conscienceless bastards.)
Of course, if you carry on anything they want, they'll take that too.
Death to the Thieving Scumbags Administration!* Death, I say!
*The organization, not the people. THEY should just go to jail. Preferably one with a GED program so they can get a respectable job when they get out.
Hear hear.
I recently went to Six Flags in San Antonio in my usual attire, which included my multitool (a small one similar to the 'Make'-branded one pictured above) in my pocket. I wasn't permitted to take it into the park.
The irony is, the blade on my multitool is incredibly dull-- I'd have a better weapon by breaking one of the hard plastic cups and using one of the shards!
I find it both odd and disconcerting that the same people who would ordinarily have the common sense to argue against carrying concealed pistols on a public airline have somehow convinced themselves that having a folding knife on their person is some sort of civil right. It is nothing of the kind. If you can't carry such a thing into a Courthouse or any other secure building, why in God's name should you be permitted to carry it onto a plane? This is an issue of public safety, and the arguments posted above for carrying edged weapons onto a plane are, at best, specious.
I had no idea that checking baggage was cause of so much travail. If you men all feel so deeply aggrieved by the temporary deprivation of your pointy toys, perhaps you should consider alternative transportation. Like driving.
My husband has to check his wallet chain, his pocket knife, and his razor. I get to carry on all the yarn and crochet hooks and small scissors I want. Apparently the TSA doesn't know how crazy the crafty people can be...
Obama would be a fool to waste the opportunity. As that Huffpo item noted; Americans feel like they are coming our of a foreign occupation of their country - what better timing to make soon-to-be-badly-needed political capital out of giving back what was wrongfully taken. In less than a year,things will be so bad from the economic catastrophe that Obama will need every scrap of goodwill he can scrape up. I hope his team has already scripted a careful schedule of reversals of stupid imperial edicts that can keep his hands free to work. Pocketknives would be a good starting token and cost nothing at any level. He can throw open the marijuana dungeons when the going gets really rough.
Perhaps we should help out by composing a lengthy list of the circus part of the perennial bread pairing. Think hard, what Cheney Administration
abominations could Obama use?
I crossed 2 international borders yesterday. Going into Canada they want to know about tools, knives, pepper spray (considered an offensive weapon in Cn and forbidden). Coming into MI from Ont. they just asked how big the blade on the Leatherman Mini was. Sounds reasonable.
I've also flown a great deal. I don't want to be on a plane with people who have knives. Make that anything that can make a serious cut when wielded with moderate pressure. You don't need it there. Check it. If you don't want to check a bag, leave it home. It's a plane, not a hobby shop, and letting your tools out of your sight for a little while is a price, but a small one to pay to keep weapons out of the hands of actual violent criminals in that vulnerable environment.
The bladeless Swiss Army knife is a very good idea.
Note to CSTATMAN: don't be a disingenuous fool. We've seen that maneuver.
knife bans protect you from total amateurs and loonies, not pros. Amateurs aren't much of threat. Loonies are unpredictable, anyone seen any pros lately?
EH wrote:
"Okay Mr. Smartypantses, how exactly are you going to ignite your Molotovodka Cocktail with your lighter having recently being confiscated at the gate? ;)"
Rules changed my friend, lighters are allowed again.
Explosives can be used as tools too, can I bring some on the plane?
I think a better question is why you NEED to have your pocket knife and tools inside the plane cabin with you. Put it in your checked luggage! This is nothing like the ban on liquids.
been around nearly fifty years now;
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/nfk.htm
#2,3 and 10
These days, checking baggage is for suckers. I won't do it unless I have no other choice. Most recently TSA/whoever stole my partner's $100 Sailor's Knife with Marlinspike - key safety equipment when you do bondage performances for a living as we do. This one also was engraved and had sentimental value.
I wouldn't mind checking stuff, but we travel a lot and are already close to $1000 dollars worth of gear stolen in this year alone.
@crimeshark:
You're designating a Swiss Army Knife a 'Folding Tactical Knife'?
Please.
#16: strike-anywhere matches sewn into the hem of your shirt? just a thought...
^m^
I managed to travel from Copenhagen to Malaga with my Leatherman - unwittingly - at the bottom of my carry-on rucksack. I was more than slightly surprised to find it there when I got to Spain - I thought I'd emptied the rucksack! I put it in the check-in baggage on the way home, figuring I didn't want to tempt fate twice - I'm very fond of my Leatherman. Or maybe it has a s3cR3t "stealth" mode that neither I nor Copenhagen airport security are aware of? Anyone know how to activate it?
Think about it, how much help is a 4" pocket knife going to be in getting control of a plane when there's a *solid* door between the passengers and the pilots.
The biggest security improvement was putting more secure doors between the controls and us passengers. If need be, you could even secure it more by putting in a manlock, a door setup so that only one person can go through at a time. Takes up more valuable floor space though, so designers and operators are loathe to put them in.
And yes, some smart elec will talk about midgets standing on shoulders, contortionists, etc. The goal is not *perfect* security, it's *improved* security.
And the training on the parts of the pilots that if there is a hostage situation, for them to just land the plane as quickly as possible. The sheep (passengers) in the back will either have to be sacrificed, or they will take care of the issue themselves.
As for the fool who asked why we need tools with us, or that we can just check them into baggage, wake up! When I travel now for work, I take one carry on bag and my laptop. I may or may not have the tools I need at the site I goto, so having my swiss army knife is a big big help.
Even on vacation, I would try not to check luggage if I could. Now with two small kids, it's not nearly as easy, but once they're older, I'm sure we'll move back to the single overnight bag each instead.
Also, molotov cocktails and matches (who needs a stinking lighter?) aren't hard to get on the plane. Not sure how much damage a molotov is going to do though... plane fabrics and furnishing are already designed to not be too flamable if at all possible.
And againm, if the door is closed to the controls, does it really matter? The entire goal of TSA should be to limit the chances of another buzz bomb into a building first, then the chances of a random murder/hostage situation.
Fundamentally, if you wish to deprive others of their tools and weapons when they have never harmed or explicitly threatened you, you are a pitiable and disgusting coward. Own it! Nobody gets out of here alive; you WILL die, and taking away someone's leatherman won't prevent that. Willingness to oppress others to salve a childish fear of harm is frankly despicable.
The modern elevation of cowardice into acceptable behaviour truly nauseates and saddens me. We used to treat cowardice as an unfortunate failing, something to be triumphed over if one is to be a better person. You could not be a coward and still be respected by anyone. Rude children would mock you, and well-bred parents would shush them.
How have we fallen so low? Why is honor and courage no longer considered achievable by the common man? Why isn't cowardice viewed with social disapprobation (like we still have towards paedophilia and alcoholism) anymore?
--Charlie
#32, you seem to assume that the only thing security is trying to prevent is people taking over the plane.
Personally, I'm much more afraid of the guy next to me having an air rage incident because my foot touched his, and turning around and stabbing me in the throat.
And I'm willing to live without my SAK for a little while to make him feel more secure about me, too.
Kdn: dd n sch thng. nd nly n ss wld rg h hd rght t crry fldng knf n pln, rgrdlss f typ r bld lngth. t's lk sggstd y gys lv yr rprdctv rgns t hm r chck thm thrgh n yr bggg.
Wht s ll ths bryng rlly ll bt? r y mn tht nscr? Why d y nd t crry cncld knf n pln fll f wmn nd chldrn? jst dn't gt t. Ths hs t b sm srt f wrd gy thng.
crimeshark,
Stop trying to pick a fight.
I can't speak with any authority for the TSA's motives (probably neither can they), but the emphasis since 2003 has seemed to on banning tools of all sorts rather than on instruments with small cutting edges (tiny knives, folding scissors). They've relaxed in many areas (e.g., matches), but they've stuck with the tool ban.
So, presumably there's some scenario where a person with knowledge and a multi-tool could rapidly cause a bad situation.
In our post-9/11 world, there will be no cooperationg with people with any kind of a weapon. I do not believe that a person could take over a plane now even with a full blown samurai sword. After all, when Richard Reed was trying to ignite the bomb in his shoes, all the stewardess said was "get him!" and passengers were flying over the seats to comply. I think 10 or 11 people helped take Reed out. It's just pure common sense.
Forgive me, crimeshark... you actually designated a pocketknife as a 'folding tactical knife'.
Once again...
Please.
crimeshark it is as simple as this.
Carrying a pocket knife is a perfectly legal thing to do and they have any number of legitimate uses. I sit at a desk all day and I guarantee I used my knife at least 2-3 times a day.
Forcing us to check a bag (and at sometimes and additional charge) when we can survive just fine with a carry-on is ridiculous. Waste of my time and the airline personnel who have to deal with my bag.
This has nothing to do with being insecure. This is about the right to carry something legitimate in our pockets. You don't want it concealed? Fine, I will hang it on a lanyard around my neck. Alot of the fussiness over this is the fact that so many other items are allowed through (crocheting needles, scissors, etc) yet a simple pocket knife is not. Double standard there that is ridiculous.
And you did accuse all knives (regardless of size) as a tactical knife.
"Someone with a bit of training can do enormous damage with a 2 inch blade"
And with a pen or an iPod. Knife fighting ain't that easy.
I'm in.
You see, we were all allowed to carry knives on planes be3fore a handful of monsters f'd it up for us.
Indeed, the skies would be safer if we could go back to that.
We weren't used to that kind of action. We, under the threat of hostage taking, were expecting to end up on a nice beach somewhere while the hostage takers got off.
Not what we got.
Now we know the score. If we were allowed knives THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANOTHER 9/11. NEVER.
Unless you're the coward that would just sit there with a knife in your pocket while the plane slams into a building.
Rather, I would like to think that now, even unarmed, the monster in charge of the horror would be liable to shit his pants at the sight of the whole plane standing up and coming at them.
We know now that even if there is a bomb, it's better than the alternative.
Personally, I would like to have the mechanical advantage in that situation.
My stop gap solution, since customer service went to shit at the airport, has been to drive.
The airlines will not get one more penny of my money.
Also, has anyone flown to New Orleans recently? You are a complete slo-mo if you think you won't be needing some kind of tool while you're there.
For those you aren't afraid of triangles but would still like to be prepared, try the new flashlights that are out there. (If you're afraid of basic geometry I really don't know what you need)
I'm partial to Surefire's E2D Executive Defender with the LED. Sturdy light there, if you follow me.
Anonymous for Fifth Amendment reasons...
While I wholeheartedly support working towards a reasonable policy on tools and the like, as an interim step, may I suggest the Swiss+Tech "Utili-Key"? It's a tool of last resort, but for those who like the comfort of knowing that they'll always have a small blade and screwdriver it's great to snap on your key chain and forget about.
I've both tossed my keys in my laptop bag and in the little plastic cup, and have yet to be questioned about it. It gives me enough of a blade to cut open packages, or slice a seat belt in an emergency, it travels nicely, and it only costs about ten bucks.
Sorry I meant #34 @John in my comment above.
#38, You hypothesize that, since the TSA has stuck with the tool ban, there must be a logical reason for it. Yeah, always love that argument when the PTB do something oppressive and that seems moronic, that "Oh they must know something we don't know. So it must be for our own good."
But then, they've continued to ban some toddlers from flying because they have the same names as people on the do-not-fly lists. Yeah.
As for why they might have hung on to the tool rule, how about ego and stupidity?
@Rezpect
Correct, there is nothing preventing you from putting a knife in your checked baggage. In fact, you are perfectly allowed to transport firearms (no ammo though) in your checked bags as long as you declare it and can lock the bag.
ego and stupidty? don't forget laziness, corruption and bureaucratic inertia.
again to anonymous at 46.
Why should we have to check a bag for a small item?
Especially when we may have to pay for that extra bag as some airlines are doing?
At this point, we're all aware that you can have a knife in a checked bag. Now can we all be aware that that's not the issue under discussion?
Around 2002, I had my Leatherman Micra confiscated at PDX when I forgot it was on my keyring. I'm sure they thought I was a terrorist with a 1.5" blade.
In 2003, I was in Japan on business for two weeks and had packed my full-sized Leatherman Wave in my checked bag. I was stopped by security in Narita airport in Tokyo after I'd forgotten I'd put it into my laptop backpack sometime during the trip. They apologized for the inconvenience and put it into an envelope. I figured it was a goner. Instead, they said that it would be available for pickup at baggage handling at my destination -- and it was!
Quite a difference, huh?
First, crimeshark et al have that "slippery slope" mentality that I deeply dislike. "If we permit keychain pocketknives, then what's to prevent someone bringing a 12 inch Ka-bar onboard?" There are any number of ways of limiting permitted knives, not least of which is the obvious blade length restriction. What is a safe blade length? I dunno. I suspect it's more than 2, less than 4.
If I were a terrorist, I'd snatch babies or small children and threaten them with my bare hands. I'd think that would be much more likely to get people to do what I want than threatening stewardesses with a 4 inch knife.
Last, why hasn't the market come up with a non-knife utility tool? Screwdrivers, bottle opener, mini-scissors, nail file, maybe a pliers. Just no straight blade.
How many millions of people flew prior to 9/11? And how many of them carried pocketknives of some sort in their carry on or in their pockets? And how many of them caused problems? Were you afraid of your fellow passengers wigging out and killing you with a knife prior to 9/11? I'm overreacting? Aren't y'all overreacting just because 19 dudes killed a few people? Oh wait, didn't the US government really cause 9/11, so why are we banning knives? We should be banning government agents :)
I have posted this here before, but here is my solution...
Fly with a gun. Even an old replica percussion-cap revolver will work, or even just the frame without the cylinder. Then, you get your bag checked right in front of you, you get to lock it with any lock you want (even a giant Master padlock), and you keep the key.
The down side is that your check-in may take longer, since you have to be present for the inspection of your bags. You also HAVE to use a hard-sided locking case.
The advantage is that nothing will get stolen, unless the TSA goon decides to cut open your luggage with a bolt cutter or saw -- which is pretty hard to do without getting caught.
Still not a perfect solution, but will still help those people who do not check luggage for fear of theft. This still does nothing to keep your luggage from being lost entirely, and will obviously not be ideal if your airline charges for checked luggage.
@#6 posted by crimeshark
Any thing with a non-locking blade and/or non-serrated blade under three inches is worthless as a knife.
Still even in regards to big knifes, they are just a fool. I see no reason one should not be able to carry large ones around.
On another note, I despise the term tactical knife.
@#12 posted by cstatman
Aye. I second that. Here in Chicago, it is 100% impossible to have a useful knife that is legal here in Chicago as the blade has to be under
@#13 posted by gandalf23
Large chunks of silver will to through as well. I discovered that by accident when I walked through the metal detector once wearing a heavy silver bolo tie.
@#14 posted by aix
That would just be pathetic. I personally don't buy their products as they are non-locking and thus dangerous to use.
@#19 posted by David Newland
Dangerous move these days, not ignoring it.
@#28 posted by Jarvik7
It is no different. Why should I have to? Why should I have to check a bag and give bag handlers and security another potential item to steal.
@#35 posted by David Newland
Not trying to be insulting or etc, but that honestly comes across as paranoid. If that is true, why just on the plane? Why should any one ever be allowed to have a knife? You mean the people around you are some how more dangerous now that you are now on a plane?
@#40 posted by akbar56
I honestly as see this as being more than about knives on planes. I see use as going in the direction that the UK has gone. Or atleast here in Chicago.
@#43 posted by Anonymous
You are scary. Reasonable is never a good word. It means what I don't like or like... or etc. It is a word used for escaping from saying what one really things on the subject out of fear of disagreement or for trying to get agreement from people who one knows will disagree.
/me feels the same about the phrase 'common sense' as well.
@#50 posted by dacker
Nice.
@#51 posted by Swampdog
There is no point in carrying a knife with a blade less than three inches. I honestly don't see what good one could possibly be outside of a weapon as they are more than fairly worthless as a tool and are easy to palm till you are close to the target.
In regards to carrying a large KA-BAR, I honestly see no problem with that. The blades is far from long enough to make them any sort of useful short bladed weapon. On another note they are to large to be usefully concealable as well.
@#52 posted by gandalf23
Hehe, my dad says similar things about the time they band guns on planes.
Wow, we are sitting here arguing about something this stupid? The real issue is the fear-mongering our government has been slinging since 9/11. While mostly ( I will throw some of you ostriches a bone) harmless objects are banned from flights and public buildings we ignore the larger issue, which to my mind is the war being conducted against the civilized world by fanatics, both religious and political who will not be happy until every human being thinks "right thoughts". We as a civilized world need to be standing up to the barbarians at the gates. This is indeed a slippery slope we are on, well on the way to a civilization that Orwell predicted, (England leads the way on this) we as citizens need to work to better education and understanding around the world while at the same time standing up for the rights which we all expect. Some of the ways we can do this are evident, free ourselves from non-renewable energy dependence, stop wasting so much, recycle, build actual 'durable' goods not junk, educate not just teach to a test, pay attention to the world, vote, hold people accountable for their actions, and maybe (this one is a stretch) be polite, Some not yet evident.
As for the topic at hand: banning anything is really just an illusion of security, anyone determined enough to do others harm will do so no matter what you do ( that bottle of vodka would be really mean broken off and used as a weapon, your laptop would make a really nasty club etc) let us go back to old times, take your small knife or multitool but check the axe or kitchen knife. And lay off the extra perfume and 6 pre-flight cocktails, for some of you a shower before the flight would be awfully nice.
I couldn't agree more.
What we have here is a regulation against an item that a vast percentage of people carry with them every day as a matter of course.
Some commenters have suggested that a "skilled" or "Trained" individual could do a "Tremendous amount of damage" with a knife. I'm not sure what kind of damage they're thinking of. Certainly you could kill a man, but many people can do that regardless of what they've carried on board. Do passenger airplanes have some particular vulnerability to small knives?
Some commenters have also suggested that the existence of carry-on luggage, or even trains and automobiles somehow solves the issue. This is ridiculous on the face of it, and I can only assume that these people do not have jobs that require them to fly often. It's difficult to explain to these people who have little experience, but the short of it is that for short flights, which are the most common flights, mucking about with your luggage often takes nearly as much time as the flight itself.
I'm not sure why everyone has decided that airplanes are some sort of temples of safety, because it's simply not true. Many devices with cutting surfaces are already on the list of allowed carry-on items.
Sadly, I fear this is a situation where a minority of people (the people who have to use airplanes regularly) will have their freedom curtailed to satisfy the irrational mob mentality of the majority. (the people who don't fly.)
@ #55
You don't actually know anything about knives, tools, or weapons, do you?
@ David Newland
Are you kidding me? If you are that concerned, work out and bulk up.
That way, you can punch the hell out of him if he tries to go postal on you.
Your arguments aren't just specious -- they are ridiculous.
You think it's silly that leatherman are banned? Try spiked collars... Last year I was tremendously surprised to discover that spiked collars and cuffs are banned on canadian flights. Not just in the carry-on - also in baggage.
Interestingly, whips are perfectly fine as carry-on, but restraints aren't.
A pocketknife ban is worthless all one has to do is read about improvised weapons and one will learn how to turn the soda cans on flights in to weapons with a little tape:)
Now THAT's ridiculous. I have a feeling that's an overzealous (and/or narrowminded) enforcer...or is that a real law? If so, it'd be one of only a handful of laws I know of where Canada is being even stupider than we are!
#33DAEN
"I managed to travel from Copenhagen to Malaga with my Leatherman - unwittingly - at the bottom of my carry-on rucksack."
Apart from the Germans, who do anything however pointless, meticulously, nobody in mainland Europe bothers much about this stuff unless the supervisor is watching.
British airport security resembles the American set up.
I have also accidentally carried a Swiss army knife which is nearly always in my left hand pocket, and which I frequently forget about, from various continental European destinations back to London; but I've only once done the reverse.
If you don't want to lose your knife at security you have the option of going back the way you came, asking for a cardboard box, and checking it in.
I've ended up doing this many times in US, British and German airports (like I said I just forget about the thing but don't want to lose it - I bought it when I was 12)
I don't see what would be so hard about the thing being confiscated, tagged and bagged, sent to the plane to be put in charge of the cabin crew. A similar system operates when you fly out of Europe to make sure your duty free alcohol really leaves Europe.
As to civil liberties, I remember Boston airport refusing to allow me to take a hammer into the cabin in 1987. I don't remember feeling aggrieved until I got to Heathrow and had to wait for it.
Re #11 buying a leatherman airside, citation needed as they say. For a few months early on, yes. Not now.
Let us speak plainly. What occured on 9/11 will never occur again. In fact, it didn't even go according the "plan" on the day itself.
Before 9/11 people assumed hijackers wanted to "take this plane to cuba/palestine/germany/whatever" the assumption was if you played along, kept quiet and did as they said you'd likely survive.
The folks on United 93 realized that was not the case and, from all accounts, fought back knowing what the hijackers had already done in New York.
If some group of knuckleheads tries something on a plane, they're going to be SWARMED by passengers. Notice how all those "air rage" cases from pre-9/11 have seemed to stop? People on planes aren't going to take someone acting a fool or threatening their safety lightly.
So much of the TSA is predicated on false conjecture, fear-mongering and rumor-panic. "I heard terrorists can make liquid bombs!" So we ban liquids. "I heard they can make bombs in shoes" So we take off our shoes and prance. What if we started a rumor that terrorists were hiding bombs in wigs? Would men be forced to de-toupee?
Let people carry pocket knives, stop being afraid and start applying reason. Please.
Unfortunately, airports aren't the only places where security will not let you carry your Swiss Army knife or other similar penknives and tools. I stopped carrying my Swiss Army knife in my purse years ago when I nearly got arrested at the Washington, DC, courthouse for carrying it. At least they gave it back, though mind you, I'd been carrying it in the courthouse for years before that.
On the other hand, it's OK to bring screwdrivers on airplanes, if they're not too long. I discovered this by forgetting I had one in my purse (I had borrowed it and forgot to return it). They pulled it out, measured it, and let me carry it on. I gotta say, someone could probably create at least as much havoc with a screwdriver as with a pocketknife.
But until they do something about the idiotic liquid ban -- Did you know guacamole qualifies as a liquid? -- and let us keep our shoes on, I don't have any hope for pocketknives.
Ah, well, as my Aikido teacher is wont to say, "They never make me check my hands."
At least, not yet.
have to market laptop parts (screen/lid) that are perforated and pre-slit to shatter into foot long sharpened,hard plastic daggers when you smash it over someone's head.
Come on, guys! We're talking about my livelihood here!
TSA, please confiscate as much as you can, because it's paying my mortgage.
Thank you. That is all.
A knife is a knife.
If 9/11 was made possible with boxcutters, what's to stop it from occuring with leathermens?
Put it in your checked baggage...
An aeroplane is an aeroplane.
If 9/11 was made possible with planes, what's to stop it occurring with flying saucers.
Put tin foil round your head and stick your fingers in your ears.
Thank you for writing this! I lost my own Warranty Voider to the TSA; the person who took it off me was very apologetic and said that scissors with longer blades would have been fine, but the tiny knife on my Leatherman Squirt was Not Okay.
Utterly ridiculous. And I still miss my knife + wire strippers. (I need to replace it.)
has anyone marketed a nylon monofilament garrote with embedded diamond chip microblades yet?
No one seems to have mentioned this in #71 posts so far but to me it's always been the most obvious and stupid loophole in the entire world wide security theatre play.
Pretty much all international flights allow you to carry duty free alcohol onto a plane in carry on luggage. If they don't (someone has said something about parts of Europe sending it in boxes??) then they still allow glass of various descriptions. You could for example take a glass sculpture onto a plane without any hassles ("it's fragile I didn't trust it in the checked luggage" would be as far as an excuse you need). Glass can easily be broken pretty much always results in a very sharp edge. Wrap half a sharp piece of glass in a cloth and you have a very effective blade with handle. This of course could easily be done in the toilets (if you think noise is an issue try putting some glass inside an old piece of rag and smashing it, very little sound at all).
Hell some airlines even give you complimentary mini-bottles of wine on flights. So not only do you not have to worry about taking any weapon on board, but the airline staff hand it to you, free, with alcohol inside to take the edge off your nervousness!
My point of course is not that all glass should be banned, because there will always be something else (a cd snapped in half, many types of hard plastic, etc), my point is that it's absurd thinking confiscating thousands of pocket knives has made anyone any safer.
has anyone marketed a nylon monofilament garrote with embedded diamond chip microblades yet?
Why, when I can just use my hair extensions?
"it's absurd thinking confiscating thousands of pocket knives has made anyone any safer."
sure kept everyone from thinking about mortgage lending practices though.
TSA is completely ineffective at its job.
I managed to fly round-trip with mace in my carry-on baggage once without ONCE being stopped by TSA. I didn't even remember that I had the mace in my bag until I returned home and realized what I had done.
I've been reading all this with a mounting sense of disbelief - you're beginning to sound like NRA members, an American's right to bear knives, blah blah. If you really need to take a knife, multitool, whatever with you, put it in the hold! If you've got some cherished piece of kit you don't want to lose, leave it at home. If you REALLY need a knife at the other end, buy a cheap one there and ditch it. If you're defeated by intractable packaging in your hotel room, get the front desk to deal with it. These regulations may be stupid and illogical, but they are part of the general pain-in-the-ass quality of modern travel - just deal with it. And don't distract Obama with such trivia - he's got far more important things to worry about. If he's as smart as he seems, he'll figure it out for himself eventually.
Anonymous for 5th Amendment reasons as well.
The OP has one minor error that is actually one of the most laughable aspects of TSA policy: knitting needles have never been banned on flights. I regularly carry a pair of #13 knitting needles, which are a good twelve inches long, on every flight I take. Mine are aluminum, but I could easily acquire solid steel ones. The points are less sharp than that of a well-worn pencil, but I guarantee you that with the help of a few sheets of folded-over newspaper by way of a handgrip, any fourteen-year-old girl could stab a person quite severely.
I've made some lovely scarves on international flights.
So ironic. This weekend I made a trip on a great little airline I won't name, from LA to Denver. Upon arrival I realized that I had gone through security and flown with a Swiss Army Knife in a mess, outer pocket of my camera bag. It got more ironic, when I decided, now aware of the knife to see if they would catch it on the flight back. I didn't even have to play dumb - me and the knife got through just fine. While the friend I was traveling with had her toothpaste confiscated....
I have a couple of SwissChamp XL's and I always keep one with me (the socketed screwdriver set has saved me more than once). If I decide to travel by air, I just overnight it to where I am going to be.
@#78 Mike P
No.
It's (as you conveniently pointed out) stupid and illogical.
@#80 LeavingHalfway
All air transport security regulations are by definition illogical (if not always stupid) because they cater for the vanishingly unlikely, but for all I know the FBI have already uncovered a snow globe bomb-making factory. Agreed, the TSA do seem to have taken it all to ridiculous lengths, though it seems to be the stupidity/inflexibility/boorishness of the operatives that is complained of as much as the rules themselves.
What interests me as a Brit (and don't start about security cameras etc)is that I don't know anybody over here who carries a knife or a multi-tool as a matter of course, which is why a ban on taking them on airliners seems no more irksome than anything else associated with that particular experience. Is this a cultural thing? A right to bear arms thing? A Huck Finn whittling thing? Or is it just BoingBoing people?
@29
Nice one Tak! now all the terrorists know where to get CIA weapons. jeez....
to all the hero fantasists: what happened to the plane where people tried to stop the 9-11 terrorists?
Right, everybody died.
Nw bck t yr nn lts b hrs rmblngs.
In Britain knife hysteria has reached such a state that a cook was apprehended for having a kitchen knife in her car, and forget taking a tail-end comb with you on a night out.
Police are now being armed with tasers, so expect a few women with untidy hair to be electrocuted.
ELAL the israeli airline has been handling terrorism threats and tight airport security a lot long than the US. They let you take a swiss army knife on a flight. Instead of borriwing their long employed methods American air security pretty much employs tactics that do not do very much but are supposed to make fliers feel things are being done.
@6
Then why do they allow scissors?
The "restricted" items tend to be confiscated at the whim of whatever security personnel you happen to draw that day.
The entire process is flawed, and has been pointed out numerous times since the inception of the TSA. But as time goes on, you'll see more and more absurdity in rulings from them: just to show how absurd it was to conceive the TSA in the first place.
@ #81
It's likely just the people you know.
I just 'flew' over the comments.
Judging by the ammount of 'pro pocket knife ban' posts and people finaly getting 'used to' the ridiculous rules:
We are doomed and ruled by mindless goons!
The basic point, that a ban of a pocket knife is useless and a waste of time as long as a screwdriver under 7 inches is fine by the TSA finaly doesn't reach the mind of these people anymore.
If I am a terrorist and I want to do harm, I will!
I would drive the screwdriver through the temple of somebody in the seat infront of me.
I could pull the 'thightening cord' from my windbreaker, or shoelaces and strangle some child. This would work better to press the crew into obediance than fumdle around with some tiny picky Swiss Army Knife.
(Uhh ohh... even better, hang the child with a cord at the luggage bins and hold it in your arm. If you fall, it'll go down.)
I'm not trained in medics or combat or anything, but what with a ballpen cartige driven through the eyesocket?
Ban all these? OK, fine, I'll find something else... buy a bottle of liquor at the onboard duty free and simple break the bottom of like in those western movies...
I know, lot of you will find my post disgusting, even think that I'm giving tipps to the bad guys.
If this is so, then your naive...
I'm peacefull as a lamb, but if somebodys mindset is set to 'harm and kill' there is no way of stopping him unless you tie every passenger up before flight.
TZXTLP 83: Everyone in the plane died. That's way ahead of the curve of the other three planes.
If you know you're going to die anyway, as they did, might as well save others. Besides, they did have a chance; if they'd been able to get control of the plane back they might have been talked through a landing. They made the right choice both with the knowledge they had at the time, and with hindsight.
I can only hope I would have the courage to do the same.
I need a knife because I make things. If you don't need a knife it stands to reason that you might not be as serious about making things as myself.
Why are you on a website devoted to the making of awesome things if you are going to complain about the tools that make that necessary.
@92 Grisly: you're right, I might not be as serious about making things as you. On the other hand, I might be more serious about other things than you. Anyway, who's complaining about tools? And it's news to me that I'm on a website devoted to the making of awesome things. What's your point? That you should be allowed to make things on a plane?
OK, I understand why people need knives and that they are tools, not weapons. And that you're too cheap to pay the checked bag fees that the airlines charge. But does anyone remember the main weapon that the 9-11 terrorists actually used? Yeah, boxcutters. With a 1" blade.
So I don't think your grassroots campaign to legalize pocketknives is going to generate much other than fertilizer. Check a bag and put your whole damn toolchest in there. Or at least as much as you can carry without incurring an overweight baggage fee.
Suck it up, people. While there are a shitloads of TSA policies that are pure security theater (the whole no-fly list and how it's maintained comes to mind), banning (potential) weapons from the cabin isn't one of them. No one's going to break down the cabin door with a short-bladed knife, but they don't pay the cabin crew enough to make them willing to risk their lives having to wrestle a knife-wielding maniac/idiot/terrorist to the floor who just wants to do a suicide attack in the cabin.
For those looking to carry a knifeless (read: neutered) multi-tool: Leatherman Knifeless Fuse
Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated to Leatherman in any way besides being a proud owner of a Charge TTi and a Squirt P4. And I fear having to check any of them in every time I fly due to the risk of dishonest luggage handlers. =(
BWCBWC, you're missing or ignoring a couple of points. One is that virtually anything is a potential weapon, and the TSA is focusing on the most obvious ones.
The other is that checking baggage invites THEFT by the TSA goons.
When I have something that I can't carry on or that I think the TSA thieves will want, I ship it ahead. But that may not be possible for people who've just barely scraped together the price of a plane ticket.
why should people HAVE to worry about theft by their government in the first place? Have the bush years really dropped the bar that low?
Crmshrk, qt frnkly, dn't WNT cwrd lk y n ny rpln tht fly n. Snc y nvr knw whn w mght b n th sm rpln, pls stp flyng. t's fr th cmmn gd.
Shsh. Lly-lvrd bstrd, sty th fck ff rplns f y thnk knvs n rplns r scry!
Hv y ntcd tht th cwrds dn't sgn thr rl nms? D w nd t nm/shm thm? RssnDtrt, CrmShrk, MkP, nd BWCBWC. Nw s yr tm t blsh.
Gv m cn (nt bnnd) nd wth my trnng, t's mrtl rts wpn (bnnd). nybdy p fr bnnng cns? nybdy p fr bnnng mrtl rtsts? Fr bnnng m? Why dn't w bn y nstd? "N CWRDS N THS PLN"
Whn y g nt mxmm scrty prsn (dng Qkr vsttn), thr my b sgn syng "N hstgs bynd ths pnt", mnng "f thy tk y hstg, y'r n yr wn." Thr's n rsn (xcpt fr th cwrds, f crs) why rplns cldn't wrk th sm wy.
mind thy intemperate tongue there Russ.
russnelson, anger issues, much?
RussNelson,
Drop Teresa a note if you'd like your account reinstated.