Obama might ought to get rid of daylight saving time
President-elect Obama wants to get rid of daylight saving time in the United States to conserve energy.
Turns out, according to two academics on the NYT Op-Ed page, there is little scientific proof that this reduces energy consumption. It also turns out that this practice could be wasteful, a bit annoying, and a lot of people, including Obama, want to get rid of it.I hate DST. It throws me and my kids out of whack for a couple of days. I hope Obama gets rid of it. too.A study in Indiana, a state that recently started DST, showed an overall increase of 1 percent in residential electricity use with occasional increases of 2 to 4 percent in late spring and early fall. So much for conserving energy.
UPDATE: Travis Cole says:
Your post is missleading since it suggests Obama want's to get rid of DST. I wish he would, but I can't find anyi reference to him saying that.Obama Looks to Axe Daylight TimeUnfortunately your source didn't read the original NY Times article very carefully, but they have now updated it to better reflect reality.
The Op-Ed only said Obama *should* axe DST since that fits his goal of saving energy.
the latest
latest episodes
I don't use while configuring our servers (I'm in Central America) but would mean quite a chore for you people up there.
Oh, please! Oh, please! I hate DST. One of my grudges against Bush is that he expanded it by months. I never understood how forcing working people to get up an hour before sunrise saved energy.
DST sucks donkey dick. I so hope Obama can fix it.
I propose we change the Earth's orbit/tilt so we receive the same amount of daylight every day of the year making DST moot.
I suppose it made sense 200 years ago before cheap indoor lighting. Now it's just arbitrary.
I like it, but I think it should start on the Vernal Equinox (or nearest Sunday, for convenience) and end on the Autumnal Equinox (same). That way it would go from the beginning of Spring to the end of Summer and be much more sensible.
YES
YES
YES
YES
YES
PLEASE!
i hate dst with a passion.
I agree it needs to go, but the kid in my always likes that in fall I get an extra hour of sleep once a year.
I hate doing DST but I like the extra hour of light during the summer, let's me do lots of outside work. I've often wished we could keep the hour in the wintertime, that way I could get out of work when it was still light out.
Nooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll give up Daylight Savings Time when they pry it from my cold dead eyeballs. I *LOVE* having more daylight after work as spring changes to summer. Don't take that away!
I love it! i'm not a big fan of darkness especially in the summer time. If he does I will be forced to start the impeachment process.Nope don't you dare touch it BAMA.GRRRRRRRR!!!
To paraphrase Kramer: "[DST] is the biggest scam perpetrated on the American public since One Hour Martinizing."
That would be AWESOME! DST might be one of the most useless and troublesome things in the world. Hope he really does it, and the rest of the world follows suit.
Oh - if only canada follows suit! (I'm from Sask - which has the sense not to use DST)
You all realize that you don't actually get any extra light, don't you?
Yay!
I'm in Arizona where we get enough daylight and don't do DST. It's _great_ not to have to mess with clocks, and I really enjoy the radical changes in sunrise/sunset that come with the seasons - closer to nature, etc.
The only problem with this has been remembering that the rest of the country does change and adjusting my external interactions accordingly. I'd love it if I didn't have to worry about that.
Oh thank God! I hate the time change with a grand and ever increasing passion...
Having grown up in Arizona, changing the clock around has been the hardest thing to comprehend about the rest of the country.
There is nothing worse than the "Fall Back" when suddenly a whole chunk of the night sky begins falling on your head an hour earlier. I'd rather ease into it the way some people ease into obesity or baldness. Obama Yay!
The New York Times article states only that the idea of eliminating daylight saving time matches Obama's stated goal of saving energy. I can't find anything that mentions Obama's direct support of the idea. Am I missing a link, or did Green Daily read too much into the Op-Ed piece?
yes please. I've lived where they don't do it and lived where they do. I think it is an unnecessary pain in the butt. Extra work, another chance for things to get messed up. I work for one of those big chip manufacturing companies, and it is quite the effort to make sure that all the automation works properly. If A is supose to occur before process B, and if the time change occurs then? kill it with a big stick.
Blaphemous! Next thing you'll tell me they're moving election day to the weekend so I'll have to alter my harvest/to-market cycles so I can vote.
Tyranny this would be!
For the love of gods...get rid of DST.
That would be loverly. kthxby
Why all the hate for DST? Without DST the sun would be rising before 4am at the summer solstice and would set an hour earlier than what you're used to. I still maintain that the economic losses summer businesses would face due to having an hour less of daylight during business hours would be far more impactful than the negligible amount of energy that studies allegedly show that DST wastes.
@antinous: It wasn't extended by months, it was extended by A month. It starts 2 weeks earlier and ends 2 weeks later.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't need the sun to be up when I'm on my way to work (and unless you get up at 4 or 5 am, that's only the case for a very short period of time every year anyway), I'd rather have the sun be up AFTER work when I can actually enjoy it.
Do it!
Do it now!
I never understood how reducing the amount of daylight hours AFTER WORK would save electricity. It just seems to me that offices and homes have to turn on their lights on an hour earlier. The amount of people who are actually up in the morning to enjoy that extra hour of daylight then is far outnumbered by the amount of people who have to commute home in the dark.
Kill it!
(Even if Daylight Savings did inspire a rather brilliant episode of Pete & Pete.)
It didn't even make sense 200 years ago - if the natural lighting cycle changed and you needed to do things an hour earlier, just do them an hour earlier! There's no need to change everyone else's clocks.
It's called "Summer Schedule"...
If I had actually needed just one more reason to vote for Obama, this one would have sealed the deal. :o)
They don't have "Summer Time" in the far east, and my friends from China and Japan consider it utterly pointless. Get rid of it, please. The funniest comment was from my mum who really believes it actually creates from daylight. ... Er, mum ?!?
Few things would make me happier than an end to daylight savings time. Living in Arizona, I'm not overly affected by it, but it is a giant pain in the ass to remember that my time-difference from everyone else changes twice a year.
The problem with DST is that it's backwards. We should add hours of afternoon daylight in Winter, not Summer.
It is not summer w/o DST. What is wrong with you people? Did you not have childhoods outdoors after dinner? I am shocked and disappointed. If Obama does this, it's to the mattresses.
I will use the MythBusters' foolproof 100% scientific method (as seen on TV) to prove that this crazy boinger idea that "DST should go" is a myth.
Historical Fact: DST was implemented because Benjamin Franklin proved mathematically that it would save candles and thus improve the economy (for everyone except candlemakers, presumably).
Mythbusters Experimental Proof: Whilst wearing a lab coat and eye protection, look up how many candles were burnt in the USA this year. And now, look up how many candles were burnt in 1700 before DST was imposed. Aha! See? See?
Case Closed: MYTH - BUSTED!!!
DST RULES!!!
--Charlie
@#29 I agree. Writing from the PNW, there is more light coming from my monitor than from my window and it is only 3:30 PM! It will be totally dark in one hour, and I'll start switching on lights around the house. Also I noticed that when DST came into effect most of my colleagues turned a shade paler, and started speaking a bit softer.
I think the most surprising part of this is everyone's reaction! I don't like DST, but I never give it any thought outside of the two times I have to change the clock.
I wonder if I've missed all this time (DST or otherwise) to feel really passionately about this. Maybe President Obama can instead turn back time, so I can give this more thought...
I went to Paris in March a few years ago and I couldn't figure out why it wasn't light until 8 in the morning. It was nice to have what felt like a longer day. It's starting to get dark at 4:30 now.
The Summer of Our DiSconTent
We should add hours of afternoon daylight in Winter, not Summer.
They did that during the energy crisis of the early 70s. The sun rose during second period when I was in high school. I waited for the school bus two hours before sunrise.
People are actually defending DST? I'm shocked and appalled.
...And I still haven't changed one of my clocks.
Mark -- nowhere in the NYT article does it say Obama is even considering getting rid of daylight saving time.
Instead of getting rid of it lets make it permanent and year round. That way those who hate changing their clocks will be satisfied and those who like the extra light in the evening will be as well.
GOOOOOOOOBAMA!!!!
There worst part of DST is when we lose an hour.
I must agree with Teller. An extra hour of Summer light for running amok in the evening is the big payoff.
(Only works if you have learned how to let your kids go outside and play. Meaning without you eyeballing them all the time.)
"Obama Looks to Axe Daylight Time"
What's he gonna axe it?
sorry
I could go with 38 / Lakelady's suggestion. It is the change back into darkness that I hate. I'm a late sleeper (8:30-9:00am) and "Fall Back" deprives me of much needed vitamin D.
I love it in Paris when, in the summer, it seems like the sun doesn't go down until 11:30 at night!
That said, I lived for my entire childhood in Arizona and I never remember feeling that I didn't get to go back outside and play in the light after dinner in the summer...it still seemed like the summer days went on forever...
We need more DST, not less. I hate wasting daylight on working hours. We should set it up so dawn is at 3pm in midwinter and we can have light evenings all year round.
the older i get, the harder it is to remember how to change all the clocks. Sadly, I really REALLY do have devices with black electrical tape covering up the clock display......
YAY no DST
@Tomas - DST hasn't even been around for 100 years yet. Doing things an hour earlier doesn't really fit in with the 9-5 world we live in. The alternative would be that during the summer months everyone would go to work an hour earlier. So if you normally worked 9-5, instead you'll work 8-4.
Without DST, by the time people get home from work and have dinner, they've got maybe 2-2.5 hours of sunlight for leisure. Having that extra hour makes a big difference. Most people don't need the sun to be up at 4 in the morning. THAT was the point of DST as it was originally conceived, not conserving energy. I'll be super-pissed at Obama if he does away with DST under the auspices of conserving energy.
@Guy - The reasoning is that in the winter people tend to stay inside anyway, so the extra hour of sunlight would be a waste. If DST worked the way you're suggesting, civil twilight (i.e. when it is dark) would be at ~7:30p.m. around the summer solstice and ~6:30p.m. at the winter solstice.
In other words, there'd be hardly any sunlight in the evening hours all year round instead of just in the winter.
NO.
They should simply make DST all year, or if you prefer, shift our time zone by one (1) hour, such that the sun ALWAYS sets later.
There is no reason for the sun to rise as early as it does. Zero. I love it in the Summer that I get light until like 9:30, and I hate it in the winter when it's getting dark in the city by 4PM!
It's the SHIFT twice a year that is unnecessary and annoying: everyone loves the extra daylight in the evening!
Just pick one and don't change it. Ever.
I would enjoy not being kicked in the circadians twice a year, myself.
I agree with #39 above. Or, to put it another way, let's get rid of DST and concurrently shift all time zones one to the left (or the land under them one zone to the right, if you prefer). In addition to the advantage of longer daylight after work, think of the fun of San Diego and L.A. in "Mountain Time," while Dallas and Chicago get to be in "Eastern Time."
And Leap Day should be an international holiday "out of time," as well. Without a name, just "Leap Day," stuck between whatever two days it falls in. A free day. That adjustment alone could secure programmers, mathematicians, calendar makers, and philosophers with full employment through the current economic downturn.
Paradigm change you can believe in!
I like DST!!! Keep it!!!
I suspect that a comparison of energy usage between DST and no DST would be a wash. But that's not why we should do keep doing it.
I live in the Pacific NW and long ago accepted that it's just dark, dark, dark all the time in the winter. This makes it even more critical to get all the daylight you can the rest of the year... I soak up as much as possible when I can, knowing that I'm going to need its effects (or the memory of them) in but a few months. You should see it around here when we finally get a day of sun and warmth in early spring... humans sunning themselves like lizards on rocks (me most certainly included).
If you work business hours and your schedule doesn't change over the year, having that extra light in the evening to do things outside is golden and savored.
I suspect that those of us along the 45th parallel or higher likely appreciate the effects of DST a bit more than those in more southern areas.
I think the earlier mention of having DST begin at spring equinox and end at fall equinox is a great idea. Simple, easy to remember, stays the same every year. Stretching DST out to November is a bit too much and abuses the concept, though.
@AllJelly
The reason they don't do that is because the sun wouldn't rise until after 8am in the winter (and it'd still be pretty dark until close to 9am) and would only postpone sunset until 5:30p.m.
The problem is that kids would be going to school in the dark for a period of a few months (as opposed to the couple weeks in the fall before DST ends) and people don't generally want their kids out on the streets in the dark as the risk of them getting hit by a car is much greater.
@randomcat #42:
I see what you did there. ;)
As a resident of Obama's 'hood who commutes an hour downtown, absolutely not. In summer, with DST at the eastern edge of the Central Time Zone, by the time I (and other office slaves) get home, I'm lucky to get an hour and a half, maybe two hours of daylight during the longest days of the year, less as summer ends. It's the only chance we get to see the natural light of day (except for those allowed to get out for a brief lunch). It would be cruel. If he'd like to extend the Eastern Time Zone over Chicago, that would be a different story.
Surely there's a solution. It's not the energy; it's the sanity-giving natural daylight.
Bah. We all ought to just use GMT regardless of where on the planet we are.
"Local sunrise for today will be at 14:54, sunset at 00:54"
It screws up my body's rhythms for WEEKS. I would love to not have to mess with clocks anymore. (I don't particlularly care when the daylight is, I just need it to not make a sudden change. It always comes at exactly the wrong time in the fall semester.)
Here in the UK there's quite a lobby to ~extend~ BST (British Summer Time = daylight savings time) throughought the year. I'm old enough, and was notherly enough, to remember walking to school in the pitch-dark when they experimented with extending BST year-round in 1969-70. Unfortunately the bulk of the populace, and certainly the weight of political influence in the UK lies in the south-east, where extending BST seems like a good, and indeed harmless, idea.
Mecca Time is the new GMT.
#52 posted by skullivan, this is where parental responsibility come in. People should should teach their children to walk on the sidewalks.
I LOVE DST. What I hate is STANDARD time. I love that its light out until 9pm or so in the summer. Its like getting a whole day off after work every day. Its plenty of time for a stroll or a game in the park. I hate it when we switch back in the winter and the early sunsets become even earlier. It seems like its always night. I could care less about my mornings being darker since I get up before dawn all year round anyway and I'm always inside my office until at least noon. If it didn't get light until 11am, I'd never even notice.
Kids going to school in the dark during winter, I understand, but PLEASE don't take my DST away.
People should should teach their children to walk on the sidewalks.
That's city slicker talk. We didn't have sidewalks where I grew up.
Skullivan: I think you're mistaken. At least where I am, Civil Twilight on July 20, 2008 was a few minutes after 9:30 pm. There's no need for that.
the rest of ya: I dunno about all you people complaining about going to school in the dark - Here in the midwest, everyone but elementary school children go to school in the dark 3 months of the year anyway.
It will stop the curtains fading.
Is this for real? I would be thrilled. DST is a racket! Let me seasons free! I hate DSM. this is the the best easter egg of the whole Obama thing.
The obvious solution is to alter time every day so that the sun always comes up at 7 or maybe 8 am.
Of course that means having a heck of a lot more time zones, but we have these fancy calculating devices that can keep everyone synchronized.
I am for perpetual variable time (PVT) where the time is accurate (as defined by the sun being is the middle of the sky at Noon) everywhere. It would of course mean that the time across town (or even in the other room) would be slightly different thatn your local time, and it would also require retooling all the clocks in the world, but it would be far more interesting that DST. I suppose that relativity would also need to taken into account so that the actual passage of time when moving would also be different than when at rest.
Reginald @ 63 - only the nuclear winter will save the curtains.
I remember a farmer in Iowa being quoted in the Des Moines Register and Tribune sometime back in the 1960's that the extra hour of sun was bad for the corn.
A Swedish study shows that losing that hour of sleep in the Spring increases heart attacks significantly. Getting back the hour in the Fall decreases them, but not nearly as much.
http://www.sciam.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=daylight-saving-time-spring-forward-2008-10-29
Unless you like heart attacks, Daylight Savings Time is evil
How funny. I just came in from finally switching the clock in the car (in my defense, we have a new car and it seems the clock cannot be changed except through the complicated navigational system).
No more remembering which clocks have been changed and which haven't? Whether my family and friends the next state over in Indiana are in my time zone or not?
Gobama!
#61 posted by Antinous...ha ha. But really, if you knew where I grew up you'd laugh.
I think my main point is that by the time I was old enough to walk to school by myself, my parents had pretty much instructed me to avoid cars, strangers, packs of wild dogs, bullies, etc.
People seem to assume that children are idiots. There weren't even "children" until the 19th century. Some of the scientists that traveled to Egypt with Napoleon were 15 and 16 years old. Today we are willing to rearrange our whole lives based on the premise that children are stupid and fragile. I know of a person who makes her toddler wear a helmet just to walk around the house.
It will stop the curtains fading.
and the cow's won't be as confused.
DST has not been in use for 200 years. The idea, however, has been around for at least that long. It was only implemented in the U.S. during WWI for seven months and was year-round for 3-1/2 years during WWII. Few if any of you seem to remember the change to DST back in 1974 when Nixon signed the 'Emergency Daylight Saving Time Energy Conservation Act' and DST started on January 6th of that year. It was pitch dark when kids where going to school in the morning. Congress mandated the law be changed, so that the next year DST started on February 23rd, but, that was still weird going to classes when it was dark in the morning.
The changes made to the 'Uniform Time Act' of 1986 in 2005 can be amended by Congress to the 1986 dates if the energy savings prove to be 'insignificant'. The study cited in the NYT Op-Ed piece centered only on Indiana -which has never fully adopted DST statewide until last year- and reveals that the difference year-to-year in electrical usage statewide was $3.29 per household and that effect varied from month-to month. Inconsistent data from such a limited study hardly seems like a valid reason to change or eliminate DST.
For the next 4 years, this is going to be the least of his worries. Or should be. If he gives this 10 seconds of thought in the situation we're in now, my vote is decided in 2012. ITS THE ECONOMY STUPID!
Damn. That man is MY PRESIDENT. And he's moving FAST. Stupidity is in TROUBLE.
OKAY. That seals it. What do I do about getting Obama to come over here and take charge of Australia? I fucking LOATHE Daylight Saving. It serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE and screws up my body clock for months.
Steven Colbert said something to the effect that DST was created to trick farmers into waking up an hour earlier in the winter.
...The problem with Daylight "Savings" Time is that the moral justification behind it no longer exists. When it was proposed, those Congressmen who took time off from their lecherous pursuits made passioned pleas that DST would prevent schoolkids in the farm belt from having to walk to school in the dark each morning during the colder months. Nowadays, with rural bussing, less than one out of every million farmk kids have to walk to school, and as the studies have shown the switchover does nothing to conserve electricity.
If Obama gets rid of it, I'll officially announce my support of the guy. For me that's a major change in policy.
I literally never get used to Daylight Slaving Time. Every year, from the first day those sick, evil bastards inflict their "get up in the dark, workie" cruelty upon me until that happy day far too many months later when they revoke it for the winter, I always suffer a miserable, headachey sleep deficit which reduces my IQ a solid ten points (from "awesome" to merely "super-duper").
I don't want to hear your whining about "but I want more daylight after work!!!" either. Why in the world would any sane person want that? Don't you know? The night time is the right time.
Mark, I've never found the right place to say this before, but this post is it - you are one weird human being.
WKIERMAN: Well said. Absolutely nailed it. Who the hell wants to drag themselves miserably out of bed when the stars are still out just for another piddling hour of sunlight at the end of the day when there already hours of the bloody stuff anyway? It's cruel, and it's got to be bad for your health.
you are one weird human being
Wait till we roll out BB Poultry next month.
DST - gets people either too late or too early to work twice a year - someone has to stop this madness.
I've always wondered, when we Fall back, what happens with TV shows? DO they just show the same show over again? And when we Spring forward - is a TV show skipped?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Willett
I love DST. I wish we had it all year 'round.
There is nothing more depressing than the sun going down before you go home from work, or knowing that it has been up 2 hours before you got up.
But...but...Obama didn't say anything about DST! Just the person who wrote that piece did and then tacked on that Obama might like the idea, too.
Let's think up other things that Obama might like and spread the word that he is going to act on them!
Let's think up other things that Obama might like and spread the word that he is going to act on them!
I heard that Obama wants to outlaw all LoLCat images and make people that use lolcat words serve 1 month community service.
I am for DST all year round, but not standard time. I hate it when it gets dark early. hate hate hate it.
Looks like I am going to have to start a grassroots effort for Day Light Savings time all year round. If the pro daylighters wait any longer we will be on the defensive.
that was Palin and you know it!
I heard that Tom Hale is Obama's seekrit muslim adviser.
Takuan - no, I'm sure Palin loves all things cuddly and adorable. Just like anyone with the mind of a 10 year old girl.
MB - Do Not Want!
Get rid of DST and make the workday symmetrical with regards to noon (i.e. 8-4 year round). That would give most places 3-5 hours of after work daylight in the summer, and 0-2 hours in the winter.
Palin likes cute and cuddly things she can shoot.
Off topic - During the Bush administration, most of the media (and of course on the internet) began what was first considered bad form. They referred to the President as Bush, instead of President Bush. I believe that after Obama is sworn in, we should start referring to him as appropriate - President Obama.
All agreed? Any opposed?
Even here in flyover country, America in the 21st Century is a 24-hour society.
Waht's gonna happen if we lose DST~ um, wreck sales of the evening newspaper? Anger the milkman? Inconvenience the lamplighter crew?
/calling BS on nostalgia trips
huh, I guess even the idea of DST really is only 100 years old. Cool. Let's call it a failed experiment, for the sake of about 10 days, twice a year.
I like DST. I'm a light sleeper and something of an insomniac as well, and the last thing I need after it's taken me until 2:30 AM to fall asleep is for the sun to rise at 4:00 AM when I don't have to get up until 6:30 AM. Sunrise brings light into my bedroom window and wakes me up, or at least makes me sleep so lightly that it's more of a mild doze. Sunrise causes birds to start chirping madly outside my bedroom window, which also wakes me up. And I can't use earplugs to prevent that, because then I don't hear my alarm clock when it is time for me to actually wake up. All getting rid of DST would do would be to make me slog through summer in a severe sleep deficit, trying to get by on two to four hours worth of sleep a night. No thank you. I'll keep the time change hassle gladly in order to avoid having to drive, work and generally function like a zombie all summer.
Anger the milkman?
But that could lower the birthrate.
Saint Al @ #97, agreed. I'm of the same opinion.
@#86 Kyle. I agree. DST is fantastic for those of us who get up at 9 or 10 am and like to go do something fun outside after work. Don't take that away from us! 8pm sundowns rule.
Really? US infrastructure, education, health care, and the economy at large are in complete collapse and we're worried about...daylight savings time?
In April last year I suggested that any presidential candidate who promised to abolish daylight saving time would win a landslide victory. Fortunately, McCain didn't realize this. ;)
Wow! I thought I was the only one who hated DST. It doesn't make any sense. I heard someone describe it as cutting off one end of a rope and tying it on to the other and saying you've made it longer. I love long summer evenings....when the sun has gone down and it starts to get cool. That's the time to be out!
Fox, eliminating DST requires very little planning, and would result in universal happiness, so it's silly to not terminate it immediately, even if it isn't the most pressing issue.
It seems like noone really dislikes DST... They dislike changing the clock.
I agree with that, but St. Vincent @ 51 is correct that I bet the people complaining most stridently mostly live farther south. Living in the perpetually grey Seattle area, I need all the daylight that I can get.
I would happily agree to the compromise that others have suggested and just make DST the year round standard, but doing away with DST doesn't work with me.
St. Vincent and Gnoodles, exactly! I'm in Cleveland, and our winters completely blow. Dark in the early morning, dark early at night, cold, windy, and when it isn't snowing it's sleeting or trying to decide whether to snow or sleet. Summertime is when most of us really feel alive and can enjoy living, but if the sun came up too early in the morning and then disappeared only a little while after we get off work, it would make summer a lot harder to enjoy as much. And we need whatever we can get.
I actually like DST.
I don't like the fact that shifting it by weeks / months is considered "good energy saving policy".
Keep it as it was, 8-9pm sundown in summer is great.
DST IS GREAT
The 2007 extension of U.S. DST was the best thing that ever happened to me. It got dark at 10pm. The extension of daytime leisure time was fantastic. Car accidents go down slightly. A lot of out door businesses get a large boost.
I love DST! I love having the sun out until 10PM in the summer. I wish we could stay on DST all year, or even go DST +1 hr in the winter. I have no need for daylight when I'm at school or work during the day, but an extra hour of light in the evening (even if at the cost of spending an extra hour in the dark in the morning) is always welcome!
It is clear from these posts that what really needs to happen is the abolition of work.
#103
You know, he IS allowed to have thoughts about things other than the most important things.
No one has implied it would be a priority.
Actually Saskatchewan is pretty much permently on DST because of he time zoon they are in. I really liked it growing up. I like that I'd have a good feel for what time it was just based on the light. I get really confused when the clocks change.
I like the suggestion of just getting up earlier (or later) depending on the light you need to work by - reminds me of what we called 'indian time' when I canoed. You do things when the time is right for them - sometimes that's earlier, sometimes later.
103 - Really? US infrastructure, education, health care, and the economy at large are in complete collapse and we're worried about...daylight savings time?
If you were even slightly familiar with BB commenters, you'd have realized that we have the major world concerns in mind. We are so good at multitasking that we can talk about these minor concerns without distracting ourselves from major issues. A little frivolity is totally acceptable for most BB members.
You can practice "early to bed, early to rise" if you're so concerned about taking advantage of the sunlight. (I'm typing this at midnight, so I obviously don't care about whether I'm awake mostly during the day time.)
Another option is to either find an employer or start your own business where you can work beginning at daybreak rather than 9-5, if it's really that important.
But no, politicians for the past 100 year have preferred to inconvenience the entire population twice a year, so that businesses who work 9-5 can have more daylight after leaving work. (Studies have shown it doesn't save energy in today's world.)
Of course, I'd be happy to keep DST on one condition...use it year round.
The president of the United States does not have any constitutional authority to interfere with Daylight Time.
I'm slightly incredulous that so many people here seem to accept the concept that the president can interfere in everyday matters that are clearly local, not national. While this may seem trivial, I think it's just another example of the accretion of power around the chief executive. Bush saw himself as an imperial president; I won't be surprised if there's no rollback from that position. Anyone who spends two years fighting to be president obviously wants as much power as possible.
@#106 ...eliminating DST requires very little planning, and would result in universal happiness...
I like your style! Even when the thread contradicts your point, you make it anyway. Cheers!
David Bruce Murray @ 116: You can practice "early to bed, early to rise" if you're so concerned about taking advantage of the sunlight.
Not everybody can do that. Most bosses don't allow their employees to adjust their schedules seasonally. And if you have other responsibilities after work - say, kids or a second job or whatnot, "early to bed" doesn't really work well, either. Besides which, a lot of the things one might do with daylight after the workday are not realistic or even possible pursuits at 5:00 AM.
Another option is to either find an employer or start your own business where you can work beginning at daybreak rather than 9-5, if it's really that important.
Because of course there are so many employers out there who offer that kind of schedule to administrative assistants, accountants, etc.... And starting one's own business is free, easy and a guaranteed success, with no negative trade-offs in benefits, etc. Right. I want to live in your world, wherever that is.
Woah, just woah, I'm sorry but I never knew anyone had issue with DST. I mean I never thought the concept was really... well anything to pay much attention to. I adjust my clock and go on with my day. I haven't been thrown out of whack or anything. I mean most of my electronics adjust on their own. The ones that don't take me a few minutes to fix. I've never felt inconvenienced or anything. If it disappeared then all that would change is I would have to change my clocks... except for the times when they get unplugged or something.
For me this whole thing seems a bit silly but if it changes then it changes.
Of course we should keep moving the clocks forward. We should move them forward an hour every spring, and move them forward an hour every fall. We are a forward thinking people who should always be ready to spring ahead or fall ahead -- whatever it takes, just as long as we ahead! Let's pick up the pace on the future!
I am a die hard republican.
I was very against Obama in this campaign.
If he does this, I will vote for him in the next election.
That is all.
Personally, I hate DST. I know why it was invented, and it had it's reason. But that has past. We have electricity now.
Daylight is nice, but it's a total waste of energy.
Horologically speaking, that is, the nature of time, the sun follows what's called an ANALEMMA through the path of the sky during the year, in relation to the earth's rotation (a shape of an offset figure 8). That's why the sun sets earlier in winter, by TRUE SOLAR TIME.
Ever see or hear of the "equation of time"?
It's the difference between solar & mean time. It can be as much as 16 minutes between the equinoxes. I'm a time freak though.
For me, DST is especially annoying because it goes against the equation of time- on scientific clocks & watches that have a cam to calculate the solar time throughout the year, having to set DST messes that display up completely.
So as someone studying to become a watchmaker, DST sucks. Hard.
I don't get the fuss really... How can you "hate" DST "with a passion?" Minor annoyance at most, because of the hour of sleep you lose once a year. Messing about with the clocks? Come on.
If it turns out to be a bad idea, get rid of it. Stop rallying and lobbying already, will you? I realise this is the internets, but must every topic end up in two opposing camps?
It's too bad people only get passionate about the minor stuff.
I love the extra hour of day light during the summer. I'm not sure what kinda chode would want less day light, less fun, in the summer. And you DO effectively get an extra hour of day light, because the time society has agreed to start the morning has changed. (i know we dont really magically get an extra hour outside of that, we all do)
I have always passionately hated ppl who cried about day light savings time. They tend to be awful people who dont adjust to change well and cant appreciate the quirkiness of things. WAHHH!!! I have trouble adjusting! WAHHH it throws me off. WAHHH WAHHH WAHHH. My kids have goto skewl in the dark... WAH!!! No, you idiot, your kids GET to go to school in the dark. They GET an extra hour of play in the sun in the summer. Anti DST ppl need to stop the QQing and get over it.
That being said... The savings benefit from DST no longer exists. It was meant to offset the cost of lighting. While now we no longer need to turn on the lights (or burn candles) we now go home and turn on the air conditioning, television, and our other gadgets.
But I wonder if there would be any cost savings to do away with it. I wonder what it would do to the summer economy, having one less hour of daylight after most people get out of work...
NONONO! We don't want to get rid of daylight savings time. We want to make it so that it's ALWAYS daylight savings time. Seriously, in the winter, I hate it that it gets dark before 5 o'clock. If it were always DST, at least it wouldn't get dark until closer to 6.
Most people in this country who still work, work 9-5ish. Before leaving for work, people don't do much besides shower, eat breakfast, commute, etc. We need more daylight hours after work, when people actually DO things.
It should always be DST.
I'm really surprised by (a) the hate for DST and (b) the utter ignorance of some of the commenters here about what DST does.
- it means MORE daylight in the evening, not less.
- it does not throw your body clock out.
- you don't actually lose an hour.
- it's not all about candles.
I moved from a country with DST to a country without it, and I hate summer now. I had to buy extra heavy curtains because the sunrise streams through my bedroom window at 4:30AM. And it's dark by 6:30PM... in mid summer, for gods' sake. Shifting my clock one hour forward would decrease this mid-year misery.
remmelt, please stop insisting this arbitrry adjustment JUST MUST be as easy for every one as it is for you. If you can't understand, what does that say of your compassion?
DST ALL YEAR LONG PLEASE!
Daylight in the morning = meh, just wakes you too early
Daylight in the evening = fun.
Yes! If I want to get an extra hour of "evening" in, I'll just go in and leave an hour early. There's absolutely no reason to tie the time on a wall clock to the position of the sun.
Honestly, I'd rather we go with a planetary-standard of GMT, and throw out the concept of "local time" and timezones too. Just let "12 noon" occur in the middle of the night.
Wait a minute! I like DST, it's standard time in the winter that drives me nuts. I hate it when it's dark at 16h30 at this time of year, I'd much prefer DST all year long.
the only complaint I have with the extended light in summer hours is getting my toddler to go to bed at 9pm when I just want to drinki a bottle of wine in the backyard and smoke a ...
Bow down to GMT and the superiority of us Brits, you ungrateful colonists.
Change all of your clocks to London time!
It's so much of a hassle changing my watch, phone, etc., every time I fly into to the US (almost as much as being locked up for an hour by the TSA, but we don't talk about them).
I was just talking about this at work yesterday with some coworkers. We decided that even if we keep our current time changes twice a year, our work schedule should stay consistent (essentially meaning 8-5 in the summer, and 7-4 in the winter). Not only would we not have to adjust, but we'd avoid rush hour traffic for part of the year.
Either that, or I'd love it if I could compress my work schedule proportionally within the hours of daylight. 8 hours on the summer solstice and... whatever it would be on the winter solstice. (Not willing to do the math right now...)
It would be so awesome to see DST go. The shift didn't bother me when I was a kid, but the older I get, the more it seems to fuck up my sleep cycles and my moods.
"- it does not throw your body clock out."
I'm at a loss to explain how you would know this. Cuz, you know, it's my body. If my sleeping and alertness patterns are screwed up after every clock change, well, the evidence seems to support the hypothesis that's not the null.
Again, it's not the sunlight that bothers me, I have blackout curtains, a white noise machine (well, a fan, but it works) and a sunrise clock. It's the abrupt change in scheduling by an hour that my body hates.
Also, I live in Syracuse and Buffalo, so it's not like I don't understand the huge changes in the amount of daylight (it was twilight yesterday at 430 when I was shoveling).
So, once again the SolarRich want to deprive the rest of us SolarPoor from merely ekeing out an existance.
Shame on you. Let's have latitudinal timezones too! For extra tv scheduling nightmares.. nEST/sEST, nPST/sPST, etc.
I don't know what the issue of it all is in the States, but here in the UK, the daylight savings is just total nonsense. The explanations for its implementation stem back to the industrial revolution and make no sense today - we all live in darkness half the year and end up using more energy overall probably! There is a whole petition going in to the prime minister at the end of the year, hopefully things will change...
It's all gonna be irrelevant anyway. We'll finally poison the earth, or Skynet will come on-line, and we'll be forced to live underground.
"Sorry, you'll have to wait until the weekend, it's dark outside now"
- actual quote from me to my four year old a couple of weeks ago, after the time changed and we were getting home from work in the dark. See, he wanted to go play in the local park, but since it was now getting dark before 6, he was out of luck. Don't take my son's playtime away, he'll end up as a fat kid who doesn't ever go outside.
Let's change the clocks so that it doesn't get dark until 8pm, no matter what time of year it is. No-one cares about driving to work in the dark, but coming home in the dark is a real bummer.
http://www.standardtime.com/
According to the site above, a study conducted 15 years ago concluded that traffic accidents increase by eight percent on the Monday after clocks are moved ahead in the Spring. This is attributed to the loss of one hour of sleep on the overall population.
#199 Summer wrote:
"Right. I want to live in your world, wherever that is."
You dodged the point. I wrote "if it's really that important." Of course, it would inconvenience you to adjust your schedule and enjoy daylight in the morning because your clock says it's 8 EST rather than 9 DST.
Rather than adjusting your life to suit the reality of shifting seasons, you advocate having a government that tells the entire population to adjust theirs.
Another vote for GMT. Make it clear that the clock is arbitrary.
I am for perpetual variable time (PVT) where the time is accurate (as defined by the sun being is the middle of the sky at Noon) everywhere. It would of course mean that the time across town (or even in the other room) would be slightly different thatn your local time, and it would also require retooling all the clocks in the world, but it would be far more interesting that DST. I suppose that relativity would also need to taken into account so that the actual passage of time when moving would also be different than when at rest.
Now try setting up a teleconference with 4 other people in 5 different locations. Let me know how that goes for you.
Whether DST/ST switching bothers you or not depends in part on your personal biochemistry -- how sensitive you are to jet-lag, and how sensitive your system is to using daylight to set your circadian rhythms.
I don't care which time they pick -- I just object to the needless switch-over every six months. It's annoying, it complicates clock and software design, and it doesn't actually seem to be accomplishing anything useful.
I've been known to counter-shift my work and sleep schedule to avoid taking that hit. But not everyone has the freedom to set their own schedule.
Now try setting up a teleconference with 4 other people in 5 different locations. Let me know how that goes for you.
That's easy. Everyone simply schedules things in GMT, but lives in their Local Time just like now. Because everyone shifts the same amount every day, calculating the difference between time zones isn't that hard and if push comes to shove, you simply look at your GMT clock.
For the sake of simplicity, you keep the time zones pretty wide so that the sun rises anywhere between 7:00 am and 7:30 am depending on how far west you are in your time zone.
Because of the way the earth is shaped, the time zones will look a wee bit funny and those way up North will have some difficulties, but really, we can build clocks that adjust by a few minutes every day to keep the time the sun rises relatively constant.
The major benefit to having the sun come up at a fixed time every morning is that everyone will get a significantly larger amount of daylight every day. The slight adjustment of a few minutes every day should be easy on everyone's body too. I doubt you'd notice it.
I'm not at all surprised accidents increase on the road right after this horrid "fall back" routine. Everyone has to adjust their eyes to looking at breaklights instead of light from the sky in the course of a day. Just as the days grow shorter as autumn looms, they suddenly snatch away that last little bit. Children need to have a little time to play outside after school or work or nap. I am so glad obama is "stockpiling brains" as David Brooks put it (a little ghoulish, no?) and they can really figure out a good solution.
DST has nothing to do with conserving electricity, or helping out farmers. That is all a smokescreen.
The real reason for DST is that the NYSE wanted to be open at the same time as the European exchange for an extra hour a day. It is strictly business.
Don't let the nice stories about "making trick-or-treaters safer" or helping our humble farmers fool you.
I hate DST. Extra hour sleep my ass. I end up waking up an hour early when it kicks in.
I still don't understand why fans of DST think it so great to have sunlight until 9pm in the summer but don't mind that it's dark at 4:30 in the winter, as it is here in Seattle this week.
Seems all the advantage of more sunlight in the PM hours would apply in winter as well as summer, so I can understand those who argue for year-round DST better than those who like spring forward and falling back.
ZOMG. I spend all this time trying to convince my parents that getting this liberal-socialist-urbanite into office is not The Beginning of the End, and now look what they're going to see. Next thing you know, collective farms!
All I know is, on weekends when I'm (occasionally) hung-over, DST means I lose ALL my daylight-- by the time I get up the sun is going down, and I get so depressed I start drinking. Ahhh. . . circle of life.
"I hate to see that evenin' sun go down" --W.C. Handy
As someone who primarily works afternoons and evenings, I can tell you it's very depressing to watch the sun go down...then start work for the day. You feel like a vampire.
Of course, I also work from home, so I can't complain too much.
Gillagriene,
I live in Cleveland, and have roughly the same daylight situation as you do. However, blackout curtains do me no good when I have to leave them open to get a breeze (my apartment has no air conditioning) in order to sleep at all in the summertime heat, fans actually make enough noise to keep me awake (yes, I'm sound-sensitive, why do you ask?) and no blackout curtain will drown out birdsong anyway. Meanwhile, I take part in evening bike rides in the summer, with an organized group of people whom I doubt are going to make a decision en masse to change their work schedules so they can change their bike schedule just to make you happy.
My guess is that the number of people who are bothered by DST to a significant enough degree to make noise about it is WAY smaller than the number who enjoy extra daylight on summer evenings combined with the number who really don't give a rodent's posterior one way or the other, so my advice would be to just deal.
David Bruce Murray @ 141: No, I didn't dodge anyone's point. It really *is* important to me to get enough sleep year 'round, and I really *don't* have the option of just changing my work schedule to match whatever season it is. If I need enough sleep to function in order to do my job, and I don't have the option of changing my work hours, then I have to be able to sleep, and that doesn't work when the sun rises at 4 or 4:30 AM. And it has nothing to do with enjoying sunlight at 8 AM as opposed to 8 PM, because if I've only had 3 hours of sleep in every 24, I'm not able to enjoy anything, at any time. Besides, if the places I want to go aren't OPEN at 8 AM, then I'm rather screwed, don't you think? Here's a hint: my bicycling club doesn't do 5 AM rides, and the various other summertime activities I'm involved in don't do early morning versions, either. I don't know too many soccer programs, etc. aimed at kids that are doing their games at 5 AM either, for that matter.
Has nothing to do with the government. If it's so important to YOU, then just don't change your clocks. Live an hour out of step for those months of the year if it suits you. It's your choice, after all, since you're the one making the big deal about not liking things the way they are.
Michael Canfield @ 148: Because in northern areas, which are usually quite cold and snowy in the wintertime, most people aren't doing much outdoors after work anyway, so the sunlight doesn't matter as much. Instead, we have to pack an entire year's worth of outdoor activity into the months from May through October. But you seem to want to deny us the opportunity to do even that.
Get rid of standard time instead and always be on DST. Who cares if the sun is at midpoint at 12? I would be in favor of year-round DST.
Hey guys, this entry really needs a correction. Obama has said NOTHING about Daylight Saving Time. The article just SUGGESTS that Obama might do it.
Somehow GreenDaily made the leap to "Obama looks to..." and BB ran with it to "Obama might..."
All we have is an op-ed.
Obama has not said anything one way or the other about DST!
can we call him "Bammers"?
The article just SUGGESTS that Obama might do it.
So does the headline.
> > The article just SUGGESTS that Obama might do
> > it.
> So does the headline.
OK, you're technically right about the headline. Who knows, he might make Swedish the official language of the U.S., too.
But the first line of the post says, "President-elect Obama wants to get rid of daylight saving time in the United States to conserve energy." That is false, or, at least, there's no way for us to know because Obama hasn't said anything about it.
Reading this BB post would lead a great many people astray into thinking that ditching DST is part of Obama's plan. It isn't.
Hope springs eternal. At any rate, it's probably as realistic as expecting any campaign promises to come true, ever.
Hmm, maybe hope doesn't spring eternal.
I'm totally for killing off DST — as long as everyone sincerely promises to never change it again! That shift in the dates by a few weeks that took effect (in 2007, I think?) was a major pain. I don't know if it saved any energy, but it sure burned up some IT time updating machines, and changing software.
Throws you "out of whack" for a couple of days? Man, I've heard all kinds of kvetching about DST, but that's a new one on me. Hope you never have to travel, say, three time zones!
Anyhow, the title of this post is completely misleading. The blogger it links to simply suggests Obama *should* get rid of DST. It's not a news report that Obama might be considering such a move.
Boo to the Digglike misleading headline here.
No meaningful Obama connection to this issue.
MICHAEL CANFIELD @ 148 said:
"I still don't understand why fans of DST think it so great to have sunlight until 9pm in the summer but don't mind that it's dark at 4:30 in the winter, as it is here in Seattle this week."
Umm... Most of us probably do mind that. Unfortunately, it's a bit easier to change the clock twice a year then it is to change the rotation of the earth around the sun.
Or that annoying axial tilt...
CharlesPlatt @ 117 said:
"I'm slightly incredulous that so many people here seem to accept the concept that the president can interfere in everyday matters that are clearly local, not national."
Umm... I find it slightly incredulous that you seem to fail to understand the notion of the bully pulpit. You're right, the President can't eliminate DST, just like the President can't enact a health care reform, cut taxes, or do most of the other things that Obama has said that he will do. But he can set a national agenda that encourages these things to be done.
And while you're right, DST is implemented locally, but it is regulated nationally. Otherwise, how did the US Congress change the dates on which DST was in effect? If the congress were to pass a law eliminating DST, there is nothing ppreventing some states and municipalities from keeping it (just as some places do not use DST now), but it's safe to assume that most localities would eliminate it.
change the headline then: "Obama Vows to Change Earth's Orbit!"
Actually, after a little research, it seems that Senator McCain voted against the bill that extended DST and President Elect Obama voted for it. So it looks like the sun's going to be coming up at noon for the next eight years.
David @ 160: LOL, seriously. For some people, it seems like they'd regard jet lag as a terminal condition.
(oh, crap... I didn't even realize that was going to turn out to be a pun. Oh well.)
Eliminating daylight time would thus accord with President-elect Barack Obama’s stated goals of conserving resources, saving money, promoting energy security and reducing climate change. At the very least, we should abandon the notion that we are saving energy while enjoying the extra hour of sunlight on hot summer evenings. NYT
Gee, let's hope he's against crime too.
Change I can believe in. Do it for the health of the nation.
I like the sun staying up late in the summer. Who died and made him God?
Doh, the NYT article said nothing of the sort. GreenDaily has reworded their article.
Looks like another case of "x is a smart idea, Obama is smart, ∴ Obama is in favor of x!"
@all the AZ residents who've posted: Believe me, it's just as confusing for those of us coming *into* the state. In a single day several years ago, my daughter and I drove from New Mexico (which does observe DST) into Arizona (which does not observe DST), onto the Navaho reservation (which does observe DST) from the east, through the Hopi reservation (which does not observe DST), back into the Navaho reservation (which does observe DST), then out of the Navaho reservation on the west side back into Arizona state (which does not observe DST), and finally into Utah (which does observe DST). Yup—pretty darn confusing.
skullivan @23 Why all the hate for DST? Without DST the sun would be rising before 4am at the summer solstice and would set an hour earlier than what you're used to.
I live in southern Finland. Without DST, the sun would rise at 2:54 and set at 21:50 on the summer solstice (civil twilight would start at 1:01 and end at 23:42). DST is largely irrelevant when the day is already nearly 19 hours long. A little farther north, it is totally irrelevant, as the sun simply does not set at all.
I've heard some people suggest that rather than forcing everyone to switch their clocks twice a year, businesses could optionally switch to "summer hours" where the workday starts and ends an hour later than the rest of the year.
What about keeping DST all year long? I think it's better to have more light in the evening, there's no need to have light at 5 in the morning
Jackie, most of us don't live that far north and we never get a 19-hour day. Now, I'd be willing to go with DST all year round; I'm not a fan of getting up in the dark in midwinter, but since I already do that, I suppose don't much care whether the sun rises an hour or two hours after I'm up. It beats hell out of having it set in midsummer only three hours after I get off work. I mean, if I'm only going to get five or six months at most to enjoy safe, comfortable outdoor bike rides in the evenings (meaning, no ice or snow on the trail, warm enough for comfort, not pouring our typical autumn rain), I want to make the most of them. We make such a big deal about American couch potatoes who really ought to get out and exercise, but has anyone given thought to those of us who actually try to do so?
And as for businesses "optionally switching to summer hours", the key word there is OPTIONALLY. All that would do would be to create a patchwork in which business hours would be mismatched between company and client, as well as probably between people in any given group including family units. (More mismatched than they already often are, that is.)
Let me ask everyone who is advocating a seasonal (and therefore, one would assume, twice-yearly) switch in business hours as opposed to having DST: how the hell is it any LESS of a hassle to change your personal sleep and wake schedule and your work schedule due to the requirements of your job than it is to change it due to DST? Seems to me that at best it would be a wash, and more likely it would be even more confusing and annoying as people would have things happening along the lines of, "I work 8 to 5, oops, now it's March (or whatever month) and my employer switched hours already, so I work 7 to 4 starting tomorrow. Gotta remember that. Oh wait, my kids' school doesn't change its hours for three more weeks, so I now have to leave for work an hour before the school bus comes. I know my kids aren't old enough to get themselves ready and on the bus unsupervised, so I either have to go to work an hour late every day for three weeks or leave my kids alone when I know they're not old enough to be left..." To me, that's far worse than, "Oh, damn, I have to reset six clocks and I'm going to gain/lose an hour of sleep for one night. And then in six months I'll have to do it all over again, oh woe is me!"
? I was basically just adding a anecdote about hating the switching and then I got pissed off because someone told they know what my body does better then I. I'm not nearly as invested in my position about DST then I am about me knowing my frigging body, and I'm a little confused as to why it warrented a 2 paragraph smackdown (or, well, that's what it became when you told me to sit down and shut up. I was interested in your POV until then.) Because I was under the impression this thread was about various people's POV about DST. I was a geo and anthro major. I like that kind of stuff.
And, in fact, if more people are for switching time twice a year then not, well, I shall continue to deal, shalln't I? Like all things in life that aren't calibrated to my particular tastes. Obviously.
Gillagriene, I didn't tell you to "sit down and shut up." I advised the general (small) group of people who are making a major deal out of having to adjust to a time change to "deal". My post stopped being directed personally at you after the first paragraph. I apologize for not making that clearer.
Having carefully read each comment, it's my conclusion that those who oppose DST are vampires.
I'm sorry for misunderstanding. I knew I shouldn't have hit post. I'm terrible at reading tone and delivery without body language.
And while I have to disagree that my body not functioning as well for weeks afterward is making a major deal, I concede that's not the point most people against DST are making (many of whom seem to live in areas that are not solar poor) nor does it seem to be any kind widespread phenomenon. *shrugs* It's not like I can eradicate certain plant species because they makes me miserable in late August/September (which is basically what I understand to be your point, [and I agree] forgive me if I'm mistaken again.)
way to go Teller. Guess who better lock his bedroom window tonight.
Oh that's never a problem at Atascadero.
Gillagriene, you have my sympathy on the allergies (at least, that sounds like what you're describing). I've got that problem too, and there are certain portions of the summer that I just couldn't survive without my Allegra and can barely survive even with it. In fact, just thinking about it makes me... makes me... aCHOO!!!
*sniff* *honk*
Sorry 'bout that, everyone.
Never saw the point in DST. People are going to turn their lights on indoors whether that bright thing in the sky goes dark at five o'clock or six o'clock. We save energy by turning on fewer lights & using energy efficient bulbs & such.
I love later sun, I could care less if I'm at work or school when its dark. I prefer the maximum amount of sun when work is over, so DST all the time for me!
Or you can ditch it and move all clocks back for standard time. Unfortunately my work will not change core hours, its much easier for me to see the sun during DST.
Long live DST!
I think we should stay on DST and not switch in the sprint and fall. I like it being lighter in the evening ALL YEAR AROUND.
Oh, and Barack Obama agrees with me, though I have no proof of this.
Kids that walk to school need the light in the morning, and people in the North Country need DST as well. I like the change in my schedule.
This is great news. I have been anti-daylight savings time for decades. In 1976, I started developing the idea that we should just declare "daylight" from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. and adjust our sense of time accordingly. Seriously, time is pretty relative, as are the myriad ways that we spend, waste, and kill it. Of course, in 1976, there was no World Wide Web and The Internet was busy spewing out searches from Chem Abstracts, but now someone should be able to deal with the programming challenges. I like the idea of working a little faster in the winter, a little slower in the summer. I do that anyway. Of course, when we factor in longitude and latitude, the synch gets a little more complex, but WTF - we're talking about T I M E here, not reality.
To #186 as somebody who did it in 1976 (and even in 1986) Chem. abs. searches involved real tombs and required physical strength as some volumes where so large they resembled cubes.
To clear up some confusion the "miserable dark at 4pm" is standard time not DST.
Why not come to live on the equator the main problem is the elliptic orbit of the earth (its getting dark at 5:45 pm due to the approaching perihellion).
Can someone change the headline for this post? It's entirely inaccurate. Obama himself has not said anything about changing DST.
Best. President. Ever
Hey, you want to take my kids to school in the dark in the winter? Cancel daylight savings time and be at my house at 7:35 a.m. Thanks!
Get rid of it!! Heart problems go up 5% in the spring and down 5% in the Fall.
I work in a business that schedules work 24 hours a day, 365 days a year (most of it being work for TV stations, actually) and the daylight savings change is always, without fail, a mess. Fall is the worst, when we repeat the 1am hour. You literally have to look at the schedule in a time zone other than the one where the work is being done in order to figure out when it's supposed to happen. What a waste of effort for, apparently, little or no gain.
My Plan A - let's just shift the clock half an hour the next time a daylight savings change comes around and then leave it alone from then on. Splitting the difference seems reasonable, no?
My Plan B - let's all just start using GMT. Just think of how much easier it would be to schedule a meeting with someone on the opposite coast or on another continent. Clearly, that would be worth any transition jitters.
Obama should also do away with Mondays.
just bad cat comic strips
This is the best thread ever because half the commenters have absolutely no idea what Daylight Saving Time is.
I LOVE daylight savings time. Why waste all that summer sunlight in the morning when you are asleep, when you can enjoy it much more in the evening after work?
Hmm, I'm a little conflicted on this. I hate springing forward, but I love falling back!
I hate coming into the conversation this late, but....
I think this is partly a city/country conflict. I live 50 miles from Boston (moose on the lawn, the occasional bear).
DST gives me a lot more light in the evening to do stuff outside when I get home. I'm a SW engineer, not a farmer; I have no intention of getting up at 4 or 5 AM to use the morning light instead.
Switching back to ST in the fall allows my kid to walk to the schoolbus in daylight, instead of total darkness (streetlights? you jest - this is the country).
You city mice with streetlights and tiny or non-existant yards don't need DST, but its a boon for those of us who live out where the Sun is still in important source of light.
pgt
Yes, please, yes!
Let's start the petition here.
The problem here is that people are upset when their kids have to get up in the dark, AND upset when it's dark after supper.
Therefore, I propose Daylight Flex Time. In this scheme, there are precisely 12 hours, by definition, of daylight each day. I propose that those twelve hours start at 7:00 in the morning and end at 7:00 at night, although the precise timing is tangential to the proposal (perhaps 7:12?)
7:00 AM and 7:00 PM are being defined as local civic daybreak and twilight in a single location per time zone to minimize travel-induced "time shifts" as much as possible. I volunteer my house as the location of record for Pacific Time one; we'll need volunteers in the other time zones to step forward as well.
The hours between 7:00 AM and 7:00 PM will be divided evenly on a constant time scale for simplicity. This has the notable side effect of 6:59-7:00 being a drastically different duration than 7:00-7:01 nearest the solstices, but, again, the time rate shifts here are minimized.
The main place where this breaks down is during duration timing. It just won't do to have microwave dinners get burnt to a crisp in the summer and left cold in the middle in winter (likely giving rise to an urban legend that things just always burn in the summer because it's hotter outside and the Earth being so close to the Sun causes microwaves to be more powerful). So, we'll introduce "Scientific Time" to be used by people interested in measuring things, like scientists. To distinguish a "Scientific Second" from a "Common Second", the former will be denoted by the subscript "sci" (the same will hold true for derived measures of time such as scientific hours and minutes; scientific days and common days, as well as larger time measures, will remain consistent).
There. Now, wouldn't that be much easier? You still go to school from 8-3 (or whatever the local custom is ... btw, we should make that consistent, but that's Phase II) and work from 9-5, still leave in the daylight and get home with plenty of daylight left. No need to juggle complex time calculations in your head like, "I'm hungry; is it lunch time yet?" or "Will there be sunlight after I get home tonight?" or "What time will the July 4th fireworks start?". High noon is always at noon. Whatever you do at 7:30 will always be just after dark. Fireworks will always start promptly at 8:00 and end by 9:00 so honest hard-working people can get a good night's rest before getting up the next morning.
Granted, there may be minor psychological side effects from lack of sleep in the summer months and oversleep in the winter months, but this is a small price to pay for the ability to live shackled to the time clock!
Our day oscillates between longer and shorter every few days. All imposed time schemes are irrelevant when you live next to an 11,000 foot mountain. Sunset is determined by the height of the stretch of mountain that the sun sets behind on any given day. Sunset will be at about 3:30 today.
I'm surprised to see BoingBoing sensationalize this story like they did. The BoingBoing text specifically says "President-elect Obama wants to get rid of daylight saving time", whereas the linked article says only that the author believes he should get rid of it. That's a pretty significant difference. There's nothing in the article to suggest that Obama is actually considering this. This strikes me as bad reporting.
Vorteks,
Were you looking for this website?
Masterfully using Youtube and Facebook during the Campaign, this will not be easy. But what is better, is the sense of that "Time" with has a new ally, as Obama respects it.
PGT, I'm city dweller who grew up in the country. In both places I've found DST to be extremely helpful. I'm just more likely to be riding a bicycle along a trail in the local nature preserve after work than mowing a lawn, but either way, I hear ya on needing that sunlight!
Tom @ #92:
Hey! How dare you disrespect 10 year old girls?
I have a 10 year old daughter. She could argue circles around Palin on virtually any subject, ESPECIALLY geography and international affairs. OK, she still sleeps with a teddy bear, but that's about as cuddly as she gets.
She awaits your cyber groveling.
With all of the other great things Obama wants to do, this is just icing on the cake. As politically disappointed as I am in my home state of Arizona, I am glad for one thing: we do not subscribe to this Daylight-Savings bullshit. We have enough of it, thanks.
Thanks for finally correcting this.
Daylight savings time year round + PNW = not much difference and here is the reasons why.
Winter Version:
Normally it gets dark around 4:00pm so lets say it's light till 5pm and guess what?
YOU STILL COMMUTE IN THE FRIGGIN DARK! LOL! Not to mention it's usually too cold/rainy to do anything ouside anyways.
In the mornings you'll go to school in the dark and it wont' get light until second period so for us it will use MORE energy for DLS to be used year round as the schools will suck energy like crazy with all the electronics.
Summer version:
Most stores close at 5pm and on DLS here in the northern states the sun sets at 9pm. THAT'S RIGHT! 9PM .
If we got rid of it it would still be light until 8 looooooooooooooooooooooooog after most people come home and when we have our rare-heatwaves it will allow things to cool off faster to BBQ.
It will still be light outside to 8:30 anyways to see without artifical light.
If you can't handle that lost hour then you obviously need a better sleep pattern and quiet whining about how getting rid of DLST is the worse thing for our country as we have more things to worry about.
It doesn't matter if it's 8 or 9 we lose daylight it's still late in the evening regardless.
I work and farm i don't care Daylight savings time or go buy it when the rooster crows it's time to get up get rid of Daylight savings time or get and rooster get up and start off go to work then
Half the people on this list are confused and half don't understand the ramifications. Losing daylight savings time means it is darker an hour earlier in the summer. I think Skullivan phrased it well and out of the first 100 posts I read, that's the only one that makes sense.
Many of us don't want to get rid of Daylight Savings Time, which extends sunlight later at night in the summer (which we like). We just want "later" sun in the winter. That means, get rid of "Standard Time" and keep "Daylight time" year round. That way, there would be less driving home from work in the dark in the winter.
And the idea behind savings electricity isn't for mornings, it's for the evenings when the whole family is home. If we had daylight savings time year round, then the first thing you do in the winter when you get home may not be turn on the lights. THAT's why Bush made daylight savings time start earlier in the spring and end later in the fall. So even Bush accepted that daylight savings time is more attractive than standard time. Down with standard time I say.
(By the way, I'm not going to argue the "savings" in electricity, just think people are happier getting some sun at night, year round daylight savings is a better way to do that).
Instead of pretending that the sun is not at its highest at noon, why don't we just change people's work schedules. Did Galileo spend ten years under arrest for nothing?
Please get rid of DST. Living on the California coast means "June gloom," or weeks and weeks of fog and low clouds May through July. During this time the sun may come out at 1 pm if we're lucky. DST exacerbates the effect of this, particularly for a morning person, in that it is really dark for hours and hours in the morning after "sunrise" which we don't see. I have to have my lights on for hours in the morning.
Besides that, the change from PST to DST is like jet lag. It takes at least a month to catch up.