The US Presidential Election: Open Thread
Yes, We Can. And Yes We Did. What an amazing and historic night. Never have I witnessed so many people, all over the country, expressing such hope, optimism, and pride all at the same moment. If this mood tonight in America is a sign of what's to come, the future might -- in spite of everything -- be better than the last eight years.
What an incredible night to be an American. As I type this in a hotel in San Francisco, I can still hear people screaming and honking car horns out in the streets. I just left a diner with friends, and periodically the joint erupted in spontaneous cheering. Never in my life have I seen anything like this.
Above, flag photo by Siege. Tweeted Warren Ellis: "And that's it. Nice work, America. You got your country back."
Lessig to the FCC. Schneier to Homeland Security. Let the fantasy football cabinet appointment riffing begin.
Here's an open thread. Please discuss.
In related news, Ape Lad says the "H in sunrays" will no longer appear in the Laugh Out Loud Cats.
the latest
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Well, I'm glad. I think he may just have what it takes to bring you guys back from the edge. I especially enjoyed the (subtle) references in the election commentary to both Franklin Delano Roosevelt and to Martin Luther King - I think Obama has the temperament and charisma of Dr. King, and may well have the capacity to make monumental and positive changes to the country in the way of FDR.
Time will tell, however.
Also, I recently spoke to my brother over gchat (he's in Zanzibar, and recently came from Kenya), and he was saying there'll be some serious parties tonight, and that in Kenya the pro-Obama sentiment was everywhere.
yes, we have.
Thank you Dr. Dean.
Lol - Xeni, what are you doing still up at this hour? (Oh wait - PST FTW!)
I cried tears of joy until I had completely surrounded myself with mascara-streaked Kleenexes.
Now that it looks like Prop 8 is going to pass here in California, it looks like I'll be crying for a different reason.
my five year old son woke up around 9:45. I took him back to bed, and told him we have elected a new president, and that I hope mommy and daddy made the right decision for the man who will lead our country. He asked who? I said Barack Obama. He said, "Thank you, I like Obama".
We've never discussed politics in front of him. It was awesome.
Hooray Obama!
Fellow Californians: what's up with Prop 8? (Going to bed and hoping for a miracle).
Just got back from the White House. Tens of thousands of people. It's the most jubilant scene I've ever seen. I met some very nice ladies from Melbourne, Australia. They gave us cupcakes. They were delicious. I'm calling off work tomorrow. Keeping fingers crossed for Darcy Burner and Al Franken. For all the great things that happened tonight, California turned back the clock with Prop. 8. Everything else is bittersweet. Despite that, I'm finally proud of my country.
The common refrain in downtown D.C. isn't "yes we can." It's now "yes we did." Yes we did.
Good night.
Now that he's won, we need to re-frame the love and get serious.
While I'd like to fall for the dreams and honor restored storyline as much as anybody else, we need to remember that winners of the Presidency are backed by powerful interests who are not so wrapped up in the shallow idealism.
I hope the Big O can "keep it real" and stand up to those powers, but it may help him if we take off the rose colored glasses and hold him to the high standard of expectations that we think we've won tonight.
In other words, let's see the "Change" promised, BE the "Change"
This Aussie was crying at her desk this afternoon when the beatiful Obama family took the stage, and when Obama made that incredible speech.
McCain was classy in defeat, too.
I know it doesn't directly involve me, but in many ways US policy affects the rest of the world, and I've been following this, swept up in it, for months. I can only imagine what it must be like to be there right now. Congratulations, America.
As excited as I thought people would be here (Boulder, CO), I didn't expect literal dancing in the streets, but it was there. Also, to continue with clichéd-but-true, tonight will be something to tell Grandkids about. :)
Freshyill (comment 7), it came full circle. A friend of mine was watching the results on the megascreen in Martin Place, Sydney, and some Pennsylvanians showed up and started squealing in delight at the results ;-)
California turned back the clock with Prop. 8.
It's not over yet! I donated money, I volunteered at a phone bank, and now I am praying to a god I don't believe in to come through with a miracle for a group of people he's supposed to hate. There's nothing more I can do, but I don't want to give up.
Yes you could. Thanks USA, and I'm just sorry that you had to go through the pain of thinking for even a moment that you couldn't.
Hearty thanks from a New Zealander who has two nephews growing up in your country.
you did It America, congratulation for the better choice. And good bye to wild-west politics.
Now you can be a full member of the European Community if you like ;o)
Yes, you did! And obviously it's not just you, Americans who are happy about that! All the best to you - and to us, the rest of the world! :D
CNN is guesstimating a surprise Prop 8 win. I don't see it yet in the votes.
Al Franken pulled ahead in Minnesota with 2% left, with most of the precincts still out in counties that lean Democratic. One other Senate seat and the Democrats have 58 and 2 kinda friendly independents (Sanders and, um, Lieberman).
"Tubes" Stevens is winning in Alaska, by the way. Nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
I wish I could be more jubilant, instead I'm just relieved. Now the hope is coming around. The rest of the world can begin hating us a little less right..................NOW.
Air Pimp One!
A truly Wonderful Thing.
Fireworks launched in celebration from atop the roof of a locally-owned, small business in Iowa City, Iowa. Full-scale celebration.
I'm afraid Obama will be far more like FDR than anyone would like -- watching over the country in the midst of a great depression, lengthening and worsening it in his misguided attempts to improve things, and looking so damn good in the process that no one has the heart to blame him.
Congratulations America! Seriously, I was almost in tears watching that victory speech. American foreign policy means so much to the rest of the world and it looks like this president you have just elected isn't out to scare us all to death, literally.
I just hope he can deliver the goods.. :)
Lots of talk about the End of the World and Devil stuff around here. I'm keeping an optimistic outlook on things and am curious about what the next 4 years will bring.
Over dinner, my coworkers and I were discussing the election and I mentioned that I'd rather Obama win by a landslide than to have McCain win by a very small margin or by the the electoral college and not the popular vote. There was a stunned silence in the room. I mentioned that one of the largest problems in the country is everyone has an, "us against them," attitude. An overwhelming victory by either side is the only thing that will begin to solve this problem. They didn't have much of a response to that either.
I think Obama won by enough of a margin that hopefully, many Republicans will realize that America got what it wanted, a change. Of course this wont change the minds of people that are convinced he is the Antichrist or something, but for less evangelical Republicans, hopefully Obama's decisive win will show that we needed something other than a likely continuation of how the country has been ran for the last eight years.
Of course, Obama/Biden's opponents being McCain/Palin didn't help matters much for my party either. What the hell were we thinking?
#18: Citation needed.
If you're going to make a claim like that (that FDR lengthened and worsened the great depression in the United States), you will have to come with a reference or a strong argument. I have yet to see a reputable historical source that makes such an argument. You're welcome to educate me.
In my place of employment here in London, I was on the elevator yesterday watching the little TV they have above the buttons. And up came a clip of MkKane saying that he "looked into Putin's eyes and saw three letters: K, G, B". I hung my head and shook it in disgust.
As I did one of the local dudes (obviously not realizing I'm American) said: "Knowing the Americans they'll probably elect him"...I shook my head again and told him that, as a New Yorker, we couldn't understand the results of the last election and that it was not inconceivable that they would elect McCain.
And although the electoral vote gap was huge, the popular vote differential was far smaller. So I feel like we dodged a bullet.
On the other hand, I find my pessimism held in check right now simply because so many people that have felt like they were being held hostage by this reactionary 'majority' are celebrating like crazy and there seems to be a real sense of hope, even from the formely cynical.
So even if Barack Obama isn't much more than a symbol right now, that Hope alone seems somehow to mean something more than the merely symbolic.
So maybe, just maybe, America's flirtation with a quasi-fascist hard-right philosophy is at the beginning of the end. We got burned, bad, and maybe that's enough for us to learn our lesson and move on to something better.
... and Andrew, Jim Powell's "Folly: How Roosevelt and His New Deal Prolonged the Great Depression" does not look like a reputable historical source. I cannot find any evidence that the man has been recognised by any academic body as an expert in historical research (i.e. has been awarded a Ph.D.), or that he has published a single peer-reviewed article of any form.
I've been following the polling numbers pretty closely these last few weeks, and I was therefore fully expecting Obama to win. However, I was completely unprepared for how emotional this victory would make me. I literally cried through his speech (and being your standard, white, macho guy, I don't cry easy). I feel so proud of my fellow Americans for being able to surmount their petty paranoias like racism, xenophobia, etc, and actually embrace this man for his message and what he stands for. For the first time in a very long while, I'm actually proud of ordinary humanity acting as an aggregate mass. Also, at least for the time being, I feel like dignity has returned to the American political process, and to the office of the president.
Weirdly enough, I feel this overwhelming reaction even though I wasn't a huge Obama supporter during his campaign (I did vote for him, though). His congressional voting record leaves a lot to be desired (eg: telcom immunity), some of his campaigning points troubled me, and he faces problems that he will be very hard for him (or anyone) to solve. I emphatically don't think things will suddenly get better under an Obama presidency. Nor do I think his win means that racism is somehow "over" in America.
However I can't shake the feeling that something truly profound has happened. The word "dignity" keeps coming back to me. This doesn't mean the end of politics-as-usual, but there I feel a restored dignity in the political process. This doesn't mean the end of racism in America, but this election has truly imparted a meaningful and irrevocable dignity to every person of color in this country. Humans (especially in big groups) are still generally paranoid, superstitious retards, but this election has restored a sense of dignity to humanity en mass. At least for me. And, frankly, it's wonderful to realize that homo sapiens as a group are something to be proud of!
Sorry for the rambling nature of this post. I'm overcome with emotion, and wanted to express. :P
Big sigh of relief over here in Spain. I watched CNN live until I fell asleep at 2 am. My mom called me at 5:30 in the morning when McCain was giving his concession speech, and I still can't believe it. It has been hell living here in Europe and having to explain day in day out that my country isn't full of imbeciles like Bush. All the stations are broadcasting the election results, and in general, everybody is relieved. It's like the world woke up from a collective nightmare.
Hey, somebody won the presidency. That's shocking. Everything's going to be different now. My relation to capital will no longer be so mediated. My life will be be different in a qualitative way. Democracy really works!
Please ignore any conversation that is not framed in this manner.
Epic win.
I am in the hippy bastion of Eugene, OR, and watched the results with the community at a place called Cosmic Pizza, where I also watched the debates. It was funny. We didn't know what to do. We had no flags, all the songs have been taken from us. We just cheered. It was lovely.
I went downtown and joined in with dancing to an impromptu jam session where a couple of drummers played and we shouted "OBAMA" and "YEAH YEAH YEAH" and "SI SE PUEDE" and the like and it was awesome. I love Albuquerque.
A great, great moment. Well done America - and welcome back to the world, we've missed you. Be proud of what you've done and now treasure what you've got.
Fantastic news, for sure - but did anyone notice the First Lady Elect's wardrobe malfunction at the Acceptance Speech?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redback_spider
Sca-ree.....not the sort of image I would imagine that she would want to project over the coming months and years :¬(
K
I just want to say thank you to all the Obama Volunteers. Without you this couldn't have happened.
I really can't wait to see the powers that Bush granted himself in the hands of good people. I hope that bastard gets hoisted on his own petard.
*Whew*
It is so incredibly good to see you back on the right track. We need you.
Thanks for an awesome morning. Looking forward to what's to come very much.
Love from Germany.
"What an incredible night to be an American."
Nous sommes tous Américains, maintenant.
Thanks from the UK.
"You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."
Winston Churchill
acx99: I really can't wait to see the powers that Bush granted himself in the hands of good people.
Actually, I hope for the opposite. Obama made me very uncomfortable when he reassured voters that he "would not use" the admittedly excessive powers that Bush assumed for the presidency. It was a little too Animal Farm for my taste. I'd love to see Obama's first act to be a revocation of those (his) powers.
Thanks Americans.
You could have buggered this one right up, but I, and a goodly proportion of the rest of the global community is breathing a deep sigh of relief.
Well done.
Love, the rest of the world.
Congrats Americans! Nice vote! You guys are completely redeemed of the image that (re)electing GWB have bought upon you, at least for me.
I just hope that Obama reads BoingBoing now :)
#24-- Almost exactly how I felt upon finding out that Obama won. "America has regained her dignity" is an impeccable way of phrasing it, I could not have said it any better.
I only hope that Prop 8 doesn't pass in California (where I currently reside). If Prop 8 were struck down, then everything I could have wanted from this election will have come true. The poll results so far don't look very promising...
Until all Americans are treated equal, there's very little to celebrate. As a Canadian, I congratulate you on electing your first visible minority, something we have yet to do. Hopefully it won't take as long to give homosexuals equal rights. It's not okay to be pro black but anti gay.
Paris on the Platte in Denver, CO went the fuck OFF tonight!!!! My electoral prediction was pretty fricken' close... har! http://www.boingboing.net/2008/10/28/anil-dash-on-sarah-p.html#comment-318182
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
Now the real work starts, American citizens. It's time for YOU to step up and get involved in YOUR government beyond the ballot. If not for anything else, please just do it as a matter of pride.
All the world is proud of us once again and all the world is watching. Let's rock the fuck out and prove this is no fluke.
This could be the beginning of something very beautiful.
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Not having any trust left for politicians, I was not falling for it again, but then came Palin. Suddenly, fear took over, once again there would be no third party vote. I was worried all day there would be a mysterious upset. Then he won.
When it became apparent he would win, the emotional release was unexpected and overwhelming. Now, after that amazing speech, there is an undeniable glimmer of hope in my cynical heart.
Yes, he will still have to fight members of his own party; yes, we will not get everything we want. I am not expecting everything to suddenly change, but I do expect more honesty from this man than we've seen in a long, long time. The change I want, and believe we will get is honesty. No miracles, just simple honesty.
Treat us like adults, stop the lies, keep hope alive.
Lastly, for the second time in my life I voted for a black man for President. We did it, we helped overcome so much, and it feels great! I posted this last night, and feel compelled to do so now. Congratulations America.
Still I Rise
You may write me down in history
With your bitter, twisted lies,
You may trod me in the very dirt
But still, like dust, I'll rise.
Does my sassiness upset you?
Why are you beset with gloom?
'Cause I walk like I've got oil wells
Pumping in my living room.
Just like moons and like suns,
With the certainty of tides,
Just like hopes springing high,
Still I'll rise.
Did you want to see me broken?
Bowed head and lowered eyes?
Shoulders falling down like teardrops.
Weakened by my soulful cries.
Does my haughtiness offend you?
Don't you take it awful hard
'Cause I laugh like I've got gold mines
Diggin' in my own back yard.
You may shoot me with your words,
You may cut me with your eyes,
You may kill me with your hatefulness,
But still, like air, I'll rise.
Does my sexiness upset you?
Does it come as a surprise
That I dance like I've got diamonds
At the meeting of my thighs?
Out of the huts of history's shame
I rise
Up from a past that's rooted in pain
I rise
I'm a black ocean, leaping and wide,
Welling and swelling I bear in the tide.
Leaving behind nights of terror and fear
I rise
Into a daybreak that's wondrously clear
I rise
Bringing the gifts that my ancestors gave,
I am the dream and the hope of the slave.
I rise
I rise
I rise.
Maya Angelou
"a guy who stood firmly by his core values for his whole life."
Prior to 2004 McCain had been critical of Bush. Shortly before the 2004 election McCain stopped his criticism.
Then I learned that McCain had gotten, and was using Bush's mailing list. Then McCain was working with Bush's campaign advisor.
The neoCons had clearly offered him the crown.
Then McCain went to Iraq. He went to the market. Gunships circled overhead. He was guarded by many heavily armed and armored soldiers. McCain wore a helmet and armor.
He came back and lied to us. He said Baghdad was as safe as any American city.
McCain sold out his true conservative values for the neoCons non-conservative values.
McCain sold his integrity for a chance at the crown.
McCain sold his soul and has been paid.
You know, I think I really want go negative. Please, disemvowel me should you feel the need. I've been putting up with so much crap from righties calling the countries I've lived in effeminate and third-world, and all the other trash Repubs roll out ..
Andrew?
"Authentic" Joe?
Other wingers in the comments?
Ha ha, suck it. You backed the wrong guy. Go ahead and trot out the sour grapes. The rest of the world is moving on.
Thankyou Americans!
- From Busan, South Korea
Fear 0
Hope 1
Delapsus Resurgam - if I fall, I shall rise.
I believe the whole of the free world woke up this morning with a smile on the face. I, for one, have renewed hope for the future, and wish the President Elect success.
OK, this'll probably get disemvoweled, but here goes:
McCain was a pilot who got shot down and captured in Vietnam, in a war fought 7000 miles away against a country that never attacked the US. He then spent 5 years in prison being tortured. The US went on to lose that war, and did the world fall apart because the communists took over there? No.
So for one, McCain was at best a victim in an unjust war that the US lost, and for no good reason. Sorry, that's NOT a 'hero'.
But that's not all: More recently, he supported the whole thing all over again in Iraq: A war against a country that never attacked the US. And did he fight against waterboarding and torture? Nope. He supported it.
In other words, MkKane was and remains a hypocritical right wing monster. He was and is a traitor to the very spirit and nature of the US. Him and his supporters are complicit in the crimes perpetrated in Iraq and in Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and the CIA Torture Gulag. How can there be any other reasonable conclusion to his actions?
Well, I said it in Untitled 1, and I'll say it again here:
(whilst violating the repost rule, thankyouverymuch)
WELL DONE AMERICA ! ! ! !
- and thanks.
Really though, well done guys.
YOU DID IT!
Keeper of the Lantern:
You know McCain lost, right?
I happily voted for McCain. I think Obama's got most everything completely ass-backwards. But he's soon to be my President. I hope he proves me completely wrong and he has my earnest prayers for his success.
I saw Lawrence Lessig at a talk a few years ago and he is absolutely the right person to have as an advisor to the FCC. That would truly be Change with a capital C.
It just occurred to me this morning, even though I voted early on Thursday, that my first vote ever cast in the American political system was cast for a black man.
Really, its not something that should be that big of a deal. But the historical significance of the entire matter just dawned on me.
@46 the current tally is:
Hope: 62,443,218
Fear: 55,386,310
Arkizzle:
I do. But I'm sick of hearing how 'honorable' and good and whatever McCain is. How noble and gracious a loser. (During the concession speech McCain said that the reason he lost was because he made mistakes. He still doesn't seem to concede that it is him, his policies and his party that were repudiated. It wasn't a mistake of strategy or execution or because sufficient numbers of Americans didn't understand him or whatever.)
The main gray lining to this silver cloud is that there are still millions of Americans who either didn't know or didn't carde about the damage that McCain and others of his ilk inflicted on the US.
Here's some haiku that I wrote while I was waking up this morning; send it to your friends.
They were prosperous
They became preposterous
And now there is hope.
It's been a brutal and disheartening two years, watching helplessly from afar.
The emotional relief I felt squinting at the Beeb in my browser window as the inevitable actually came to pass was phenomenal.
Now here is hoping that all the cynicism that anxiety temporarily suspended doesn't have a reason to come crashing back to the ground. I'm hardly full of hope, but you can see that the nation is right now and it is exciting, refreshing and even a bit surprising.
I was with Gore Vidal in expecting the GOP to do something to muddy the vote or just outright steal it.
But no: you guys rock, thankyou so much, the rest of the world thanks everyone who voted.
In other, less inspiring, news, 51% of Californians vote against gays. No We Can't! (get married).
...if anyone can find a post of the video of Vidal on BBC's coverage (about 4:45am Uk time) please post a link... it was most entertaining.
Can only find twitters of people equally entertained by his appearance.
Victory is SWEET!
Congratulations America. I think you’ve made the world proud. I hope he can be the giant we all wish him to be.
Keeper: fair enough.
Justin: he was, indeed, very entertaining :)
Things from this election I hope I never hear or see again:
- the phrase "thrown under the bus"
- "in the tank"
- "Joe Sixpack" (some of us don't like beer)
- "Yes We Can" (sorry Obama)
- "Drill, baby, drill!"
- "spread the wealth" (like it was manure or something)
- "Pro-America"
- "Maverick"
- "My friends"
- "Change" (used as a noun, unless it's referring to money)
- "palling around with terrorists"
- Lipstick applied to any animal in any fashion
- Any combination of "Wall Street" and "Main Street", unless dealing with a real intersection
- Any whining about media bias
- Sarah Palin's nasal twang (seriously, it's like it resonates in my sinuses)
- the sun reflected off Joe the Plumber's ball-peen head
- Joe the Plumber scowling like he just burst a hemmorhoid
- Joe the Plumber
- Ted Stevens, unless it's a mug shot
- Michelle Bachman, unless it's in an unemployment line
--Devin Carless
There was also some cheering in the streets up here in Canada when the polls showed their results.
The world celebrates with you.
Like Foetusnail I thought that I was redefining cynicism towards all politicians. Having made a life for myself in Canada I thought that I could watch the acceptance speech of Barack Obama with utter detachment.
And it was right then, while I was holding that stance, that I got kicked the hardest I've been as I noticed that I was crying, for minutes already.
Arkizzle, I think everyone who posted last night should repost; the Stan Rogers lyrics Takuan posted; Shakespear from Antinous; the quote from digg posted by Agent 86; the link to Billy Bragg from Sammich; all the expressions of unbridled joy and hope.
I feel like someone who has had their heart broken over and over, who has finally found the bravery to give hope another chance.
Welcome back to the world, America.
I survived the Reign of Error!
Justin France @ 58 - He turns up at 1hr 24mins here -http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00fqx72/US_Elections_2008_Part_3/
- you can force the cursor, I don't know if you can view it from outside the uk.
So proud of my American friends today. I'm walking around the centre of Manchester, UK, and even at this distance it feels like a huge weight has lifted. Thank you guys, and congratulations.
Well done to McCain for being admirably gracious in defeat, and well done to everybody who voted for being one of the ones that made a historic difference last night.
I'm cautiously optimistic about the future for the first time in ages. As somebody else said earlier, welcome back America.
I for one welcome our new Democrat overlords.
That is all.
Ron Paul 2012.
I'm so beyond jaded, having seen my friends killed and locked up by the very institutions and corporate interests that have now chosen Obama as their new leader. But, I must say, even I got a good feeling last night. Bittersweet no doubt, but sweeter than I expected it would be. I found the acceptance speech quite weak actually, but I could feel the empowerment radiating out of the people screaming in the streets below my window.
Now that everyone's gotten a bit of sleep, let's put it on this new administration-elect... every day, let's not stop. Protests, direct action, petitions, letters, calls, strikes, creative sabotage, whatever it takes. Let him, and everyone else that has power over your lives, know that they will be held accountable and taken to the wall until the troops come home to their families, the bombs stop dropping, the torture stops at home and abroad, the jails are emptied, we have health care, free and unfettered access to information, media and education, etc etc etc Fuck hope, I want FREEDOM. Some justice for once would be nice too. Perp walk those fuckers to the Hague please...
We'll see how it all plays out.
For those who requested it: Gore Vidal, clearly past his bedtime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2L8iUHZ2sY
Foetusnail @ 64 - I'll gladly repost the link -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wOxE6gxwz7o&feature=related
Billy Bragg - The World Turned Upside Down, written by Leon Rosselson.
All of you at bb have been as much a part of this sea change as anyone else. congratulations!
xoxoxo susie
This is exciting! But the most exciting thing to me is to see so many people all over the country (and the world) take such an energetic and positive approach towards politics. Also, the genuine, uncynical faith in limitless possibilities for our political future (like Lessig for the FCC) and the actual willingness to work for it is awesome and badly needed.
Unfortunately, Obama will not (cannot, really) bring the changes we've been led to believe he will. But after seeing this incredible grassroots movement spring up to support and celebrate his campaign, I'm really hoping for a "Wizard of OZ" moment, where we all realize that it was never really about Obama himself, it was us. Like he himself says, we're the power, we're the hope, we're the potential for change. By believing wholeheartedly in our own ability to change the country and getting seriously organized and active, ordinary people really did manifest their power in this country.
This victory, in addition to everything else it symbolizes, is a huge symbol of people power. I hope that we can go on to manifest that power again and again, not just for political candidates but for all the issues like war, economic justice, civil liberties and global warming that are so vital today. Let this be just the beginning of the (small-d) democratic movement that transforms America from the bottom up.
For the many Americans than haven't been abroad, I think it would be impossible to imagine how highly the world used to regard your country and society, and quite how far your standing fell in the last 8 years in the eyes of people from every country in the world.
As someone who has visited and loved America (and Americans) it was devastating to see your great country on an incomprehensible mission of self destruction that was going to bring the whole world down with it.
It will take a lot to renew the world's faith, but I speak as one of the billions of world citizens who are now daring to hold onto some hope now that you will re establish your reputation as one of (real) decency, (real) honour and (real) freedom.
All who helped elect Obama should be truly proud of yourselves, it's now up to you to make sure you hold true to his magnificent speech tonight. Great work folks, welcome back into the (real) world we all missed you!
Timing.
He who is first and loudest now will have advantage.
Reality and daily distraction are inevitable and soon. Momentum matters.
regarding CA Prop 8, if it passes (and unfortunately it looks like it will):
- does it affect the current or future possibility of equivalent civil unions? That would be unacceptable (and a civil.. no, make that a human-rights case the state would quickly lose in the rapidly approaching political climate.)
- If it doesn't affect civil unions, would NOT calling it marriage be such a big deal? Seems to me like if fundamentalists and conservatives want to bias and narrowly define "marriage"... it's time to call your partnership something else.
Simply being "mated" works for me.
My husband and I planned on staying up last to watch all the excitement. I stopped and picked us up a couple pints of Hagen-Daz/Ben&Jerry's and we sat down to watch history, crossing our fingers. I feel like an old lady cause the Hagen-Daz Butter Pecan did me in and made me so sleepy, we went to bed at 10:00.
I was so filled with trepidation yesterday, I couldn't bring myself to think about the whole thing. Then when CNN said they were predicting Obama would win Ohio, my grip on that anxiety started to decrease.
Hubby comes in to wake me up this morning and says, "Obama won by a huge amount." What a wonderful way to start the day.
This is the first time in a very long time that I have hope for our country again. He's not going to wave a magic wand and make everything better, but I think he'll be able to pull us out of the ditch Bush & Co drove us into.
I was disappointed (very) in his vote for telecomm immunity. If I could ask him to do one thing first when he takes office, it would be to close Gitmo or at least expedite in a tremendous way the trials. The injustice that is Gitmo is a canker on our country.
Sorry....rambling over!
I'm decked out all in blue in a mostly Republican school. Shouts of Obama in the hallways before class begins. Student next to me is ultimate douchebag: "The Man Who Was President for One Minute, that's what they're gonna call him."
Parents have not so much as acknowledged me since last night when it was clear Obama was going to blow it away.
I don't care.
I am thrilled.
I have cried intermittently. When they just said it- "President Elect Barack Obama"- I started laughing, then crying.
:D Please, Mister Obama. Please, let's change this shit up.
But California's results make me want to really-cry. Is it decided yet that Prop8 was passed?
Spent 14 hours on my feet manning a polling booth yesterday. Saw some things that made me sad, and some that made me proud to be a citizen of the Republic, and a few that disgusted me.
The best moment was when I was explaining to a tiny little old lady how to vote, and she interrupted me with a big smile and said in her cigarette-ravaged gravel-crusher of a voice, "Yes, yes, but how do I bet the trifecta?".
I'm very pleased that we have reduced the risk of having a President Palin any time soon, and very disappointed that every single Representative that voted for the so-called "wall street bailout" did not get sacked, and tenatively, cautiously optimistic that BHO might put an end to the torture and financial irresponsibility that have characterized the Bush/Cheney reign of terror.
My feet hurt, and I have a couple day's work to catch up on. See y'all around!
--Charlie
I live in Japan and work with a whole lot of non-Americans.
Everyone in the world, it seems, from my small sampling of it, is glad that we finally kicked the evil fuckers to the curb.
Or, rather, I should say, kicked them hard enough that election-rigging couldn't help them.
Now I can only dream of these monsters being pulled up on war crime charges... It won't be truly done until Bush et al do the hangman's jig.
Won't happen, though.
Nice follow through: http://www.palinaspresident.us/
A curious note: what happened to the record turnout? Wikipedia records that 2004 saw 121,069,054 ballots cast between Bush (62,040,610) and Kerry (59,028,444). As of 9AM ET, CNN reports 118,225,916 ballots cast between Obama (62,682,389) and McCain (55,543,527 (giggle)). Nearly 3,000,000 fewer voted in '08? Really? Who stayed home?
I'm not too beat up about 8, I think Civil Unions and maybe the courts will help win the fight for equal rights in that arena. I mean, I have to be hopeful.
Why am I progressive? Because you cannot turn back the clock. Time keeps on marching. I have an internet terminal in my pocket. I haven't taken a picture on film in a decade. We have elected a minority president.
The future is now.
I hate to pee on everyone's parade, but Obama is a product of the american polictical machine. The government has become a machine that converts special interest money into legislation and governance favorable to them. Almost all politicians are cogs in this machine. Until large numbers of contrarian politicians are elected to attempt to keep the government honest and to shrink it's size, things will continue get worse. Americans will not change things until something radical happens, like a large war that requires the whole populace to sacrife and has many casualties. We might even need another revolution
I was at a election watching party last night. When the projection was announced, lte me tell you.. the cheering.. people were jumping up and down. Its really rather electrifying to be in a room surrounded by sheer jubilance.
#83: that doesnt seem right at all
#85 I like to think Obama is different. He actually talks like a normal human being, for one thing.
We shall see, eh?
#85- It's incredibly depressing, isn't it?
But I figure- let's take one step at a time. Rome wasn't built in a day. And don't listen to those effers that tell you you can't have everything- California, let's redo this vote.
It's CALI, for crying out loud.
talia - those are the numbers CNN has.
Same number of Dems as before, but Republicans stayed home?
I voted for Obama before it was cool.
Srsly, thanks to all who voted.
Nice to see you back, America.
You had us worried there for a while.
P.S. Is it too late to impeach the scum or at least charge them with treason (if for no other reason than to serve as a lesson to other fascists)?
"Americans will not change things until something radical happens..."
Wow, I thought a Black man for President was a radical change...
I live in Oklahoma, where Obama lost to McCain by a landslide.
I cried when I walked out of my polling place in what's known as a 'liberal' neighborhood of Oklahoma City. I took my teenage son out of school to see his mother vote for the first Black President of the USA. A truly pivitol moment in a family that, up until 1984, had slave papers hidden in a Grandmother Clock.
(My Grandpa and I donated them to an all-black University here in the state)
Dear Tenn
The election penumbra doesn't mean the Proposition 8 battle is over by any means. After such a long, dark time people need to rejoice awhile. I do suggest a Prop 8 thread be opened ASAP.
Maybe this shouldn't be posted here, as theme is definitely a celebratory one. But since someone has already mentioned War and Revolution, I'll go ahead and say it. Somebody please buy this man a Popemobile! My biggest worry all along hasn't been that Obama would win, but that some nutjob would go after him after he won. We were instructed to prepared in case of civil disobedience yesterday and that was just in case Obama lost.
There are way too many people out there that long for the chaos that would ensue if something were to happen to Obama and I know he can't hide himself away, but damn - this is really worrisome.
Gone, Sarah, gone!
HUZZAH!
Wow, Here in Michigan we (Hell Yeah!!!)helped vote in Obama (I took my kilt off and ran down the street). And to top it off voted for both Medical Mary Jane (thank dog!!! will help as I am an AIDS survivor!) and expanded Stem Cell research! WHat a great day in da North!!!
Looking at the pretty colors on the map really makes you (me) stop and wonder whether 1 nation really is the best option here, rather than 2.
http://www.isobamapresidentyet.com/
#94: its a common concern. And you can bet your butt if we thought of it, so did they.. I am pretty confident they will amp up protection in response. I suspect he will be the most heavily guarded president in U.S. history for just that reason
I haven't cried so much since my dog ran away
...of course, these are tears of joy
I was in Grant Park last night here in Chicago, only hours ago. Spectacular to witness history, fantastic to hear Mr. Obama in person. The history overcomes me in a way not unlike watching them walk on the moon! We have a new dawn in America and a real and true "shining city on the hill" can now be realized by everyone, people! A great Brit once said "War is over if we want it" - I think Obama can lead the way ,but it will not be easy for him and for us. We will all have to play our part!
Tom, when you say we, do you firefighters were instructed to be prepared in case of civil disobedience?
Proposition 8 has most certainly passed; epic fail, California.
FoetusNail, I posted this yesterday at around 6:30 pm central.
Here's some scary news - I'm at work today - a 24 hour shift, 7am-7am. We were just given a general announcement over our vocal system (a PA system that connects to every City of Memphis fire station). The announcement: "All companies are to go over the Civil Disobedience Plan."
We were also called by our Battalion Chief and instructed to make sure that everyone knew what to do and where to report in case of civil disobedience.
Obama's 1st action should be to instigate a bail out package for all the comedians who lost thier act when bush went.
I was optimistic for about 2 hours, but already Obama is threatening to send more troops to Iran, and take "Action" if he isn't "happy" with other countries Nuclear "situations".
Mark my words - the government ALWAYS gets in...
Last Wednesday night I got to see people running out in the streets to celebrate the Philadelphia Phillies winning their first World Series title since 1980.
Last night I got to see people running out in the streets to celebrate Barack Obama being elected as our 44th President.
This has been a good week to be in Pennsylvania.
Florida as well.
The US has been disenfranchised for 8 years by a president who didn't care about polls or what other citizens of the world thought. This led many (me anyway) to feel that there was nothing we could do to change things while he was in office. Now we have a president-elect who was a community organizer. I hope he can use those skills to get Americans to work to make our nation a better place and better world citizen.
Will Tingle, citations please. Obama is committed drawing down troops stationed in Iraq, and increasing troop levels in Afghanistan to combat the Taliban.
As far as the nuclear ambitions of other countries, first no one is going into that office who will not be immediately challenged by their first full Presidential briefing. I can't even imagine what it would be like to sit at that desk listening to the JCS and others, then being asked, what is your decision Mr. President.
That being said, my hope is that Obama will better draw together world opinion, and therefore be in a position to resolve these problems diplomatically. The out pouring of international support cannot be wasted like it was after 9-11.
Obama has always been more pro Diplomacy than pro attack. A fact which was played up by the right to make him seem weak on terrorism.
I couldn't even drive through campus last night because there were hundreds of students in the streets, practically rioting with joy.
it was awesome
Congratulations, USA! As one of 30 million neighbours living north of the 49th parallel, I humbly salute you for your impressive display of democracy in action.
We just had a federal election here in Canada, and we had a record worst turn out for voters in our history. Look at what you folks did! You got off of your asses and exercised your rights. I'm so blown away by you all.
I am really happy for all of you, no matter what your political affiliation -- you showed something to the world last night, and I for one have a new-found respect for your country and your people.
Let's roll up our sleeves and collectively make this world a better place.
As an avowed atheist, cynic, and misanthrope, I could only express my unexpected feelings last night with this: My grinchy heart grew three sizes when Barack Obama was elected President.
What is UP with you fuckers in California!?! I'm a gay man living in Texas. If I can't look to you guys for a future of equality, then Obama or not, change has NOT come.
As an American I can finally say I am PROUD OF MY COUNTRY! Reading everyone's congratulatory comments moves me tears. I'm so glad we're back in the good grace of the international community. My only other hope (Barack, you listening?) is that G-dub and Cheney are charged for every war crime they've committed.
Talia -
If you look at the Virginia numbers (which I've only looked at because I live there), there was lower turnout than 2004: turnout was 71.35% in 2004, down to 70.6% of active voters in 2008; 3,223,156 total votes in 2004 - 3,468,963 total votes in 2008 (4,517,980 registered voters in 2004, 4,912,971 active voters in 2008). So, I'm guessing the Democrats got the increased registration and Independents while the Republicans stayed home. Considering how many Republicans were so rabidly anti-Obama, I'm shocked that anybody stayed home. Did the threat of long lines keep people home? Was there an inevitability factor going into the weekend?
...I'm having a Carter Debacle flashback here, kids. Obama wasn't elected because he was the better man, it was voters being as stupid as they were in 1976 and voting *against* the former president without any real regard for Obama's lack of experience.
The next four years are going to be a clusterfrack. I can hear our enemies laughing and partying now over what new debacle is to come...
#114, come to CT/Mass. we've finally gotten it right. California apparently hasnt managed to pare down the moron population yet.
This is such a great moment, I can hardly react.
Yet a lot of work still remains to be done.
I propose:
Lame duck hunting season is open...
Bushies will not go gently into the night, and they have 11 weeks to complete their damage.
#116: weird, because the voting station was DEFINITELY more crowded than I rcall from 4 years ago. And what of all the stories of people in line for like, 5 hours?
Just strange
#117 I have to disagree. I do firmly believe Obama is the far superior candidate, and I am convinced the country is going to start to turn around on his watch.
As a Brit living in Canada, it is truly wonderful to see our large, proud, troubled neighbour regain it's pride and hope.
The scenes coming from the US last night reminded me of the election of Tony Blair, and the discarded remnants of Mrs Thatcher's legacy being flushed away. The feeling of regaining your country, of seeing the morally bankrupt Bush administration no longer able to distort, manipulate and exploit the wonderful achievements of all the varied peoples of your culture must be heady indeed.
If only now Barack Obama can build on his moment in history, deal with the immense problems left to him by Bush and his cronies, without losing himself as Blair did, America will stand tall and gain respect for itself and in the world once more.
Congratulations to you all. The next 100 days are crucial, and Brack will need all the support he can get. He will get it, you will all be there with him.
Our National Nightmare is over. The arc of history does bend toward justice. The National Nightmare is over! How wonderful!
OM, look at the headlines from around the world. We have far more allies laughing and partying today than we have had in a long time. The number of enemies this country has just took a turn for the better.
What's this H in Sunrays thing? My google mojo is insufficient.
#117:"The next four years are going to be a clusterfrack. I can hear our enemies laughing and partying now over what new debacle is to come..."
-
"our enemies".. Warning: Neocon key-phrase alert!
The only enemies the US has are the ones it has deliberately created in order to profit from their destruction. Hopefully the next 4 years will be spend reducing them in number in ways other than bombing them from toy planes and in ways that dont create 10 new ones for every 1 removed. The next 4 years will be spent UNDOING the clusterfuck.
Meanwhile, shredders at full speed at DC today...
I wonder if Proposition 8 might eventually be ruled unconstitutional because it revokes marriage licenses for those glbt folk who already have one. Regardless, we clearly have work to do.
#117:
There was another man elected to the Presidency who had the same "lack of experience" that Obama is reported to have...
his name was Abraham Lincoln.
I am grateful to be celebrating this awesome moment in our history. I am grateful to have broken free from blatant fear and hate mongering.
What a day!
@ryane
I agree, kids seem to like Obama. And to me that is a good endorsement. Their intuition has not been clouded, so I think they can be good judges of character. I posted pictures on my blog to prove the point.
Jeaguilar @83, the AP is reporting turnout figures in the 134-136 million range with experts arguing over whether it's the largest percentage turnout in a century, or just forty years.
I'm sad that Prop 8 was passed; if California can't do it, what hope is there here in Georgia?
That said, I think that we can use the momentum of Obama's election and keep fighting. It's definitely a friendlier climate for it than if McCain had won.
Obama feels like fresh air after 8 years of holding my breath. I'm not so naive as to think everything is magically fixed, but that HOPE is so powerful.
You want to see a cabinet made up of people like Lessig and Schneier? You think it's impossible? Sure, history would tell us it is, but look who we just elected; why stop now? Band together, raise awareness, and with as high a profile as can be mustered, let the president-elect know.
He said he'd listen to us. So let's get together and take him up on that offer. Move!
I just totally agree with the sentiments of this post from Xeni. I had a fantastic night celebrating the victory and I think the country has turned a corner. To finally have a thinking president will influence everything everywhere. We can start breathing again!
As of 9:57am EST, Prop 8 has 52% approval. Really, California? I wasn't surprised Obama won, but this really shocked and disappointed. Taking a look at the exit poll statistics is interesting: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1
Overwhelming disapproval from the under-30 crowd. Gonna stink to have to wait for all you crusty holier-than-thou haters to die off to get this overturned, but at least there is hope that your prejudice will die with you.
Btw, what's with the overwhelming support from the African American community? I never suspected that the homophobia depicted in the thug love/Gangstalicious episode of the Boondocks was anything but comedy. Apparently discrimination is only skin deep? Bah. Maybe the statistics are just inaccurate.
Jesus Fucking Christ. Get over this shit. It's another president, not any better or worse than any president that came before him. I am truly disgusted by the outpouring of Obama support. IT DOESN'T MATTER. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm not a wingnut - I just have a head on my shoulders and this tells me that no president has really changed anything, ever.
I do think that this narrative has detracted from real struggles that are happening just a few blocks from your home. See if there's a housing co-op that needs folks to lend some support. There's probably an abortion clinic that's being attacked by assholes, and folks need safe escorts, because those assholes will literally kill women. There's likely a community center that could use volunteers, because most non-profit centers are relying on contributions - ones that could do ten times as much as a contribution to whatever jackass is running for president this time. The bullshit will always remain the same, and taking control of your neighborhood is the only way to see shit change and to build a popular base for common sense ideas.
I don't wanna kill anyone's buzz about Obama, and I hope that energy will coalesce into something real, but pleeeeez look around and see what you can do directly. That's always better than a politician doing it for you.
So does this mean that democrat-hating republicans are going to move to Canada?
America,
As someone in England who stayed up all night to watch your election, and as someone who hoped that you would take what seemed to me the only chance for change, I'd like to say that I'm so happy you chose him.
I don't know everything about him, and I certainly don't know all the details about American politics, but now, after eight years, I can finally relax and think that everything might turn out all right.
Thank you, America.
Brutal, bitter, nasty campaign then everybody has coffee in the morning.
It's a lovely country.
Pseudothink, it is a disgrace for California that a seeming majority of its voters cannot seem to recognize a true civil rights issue when it sees one. I am disappointed and embarrassed for our state. But I am not particularly surprised. It seems to be extremely difficult for populations to abandon habits that deprive people of their civil rights. I suspect that this will have to end up in the U.S. Supreme Court eventually. There does not seem to be any other way to stop the foolishness. Bigotry is alive and well.
Any guesses about how Obama will compose his administration?
Okay, now *this* is "morning in America" (with no apology to R. Reagan and his copywriters for the plagiarism).
Realistically, I do not expect Obama to work miracles, and I will probably disagree with him about a lot, but at least when the President comes on TV now it'll be someone with an intellect.
Mokey,
You are of course right. Nobody should ever enjoy any victory, because there's a bigger defeat right around the corner. No matter what's done, it's never enough. If you've fixed one thing, it's because you neglected another that's now become much worse due to your inaction.
Thank you for setting us all straight.
Unfortunately, the very turnout that helped Obama win, worked against the Prop 8 in CA and Amendment 2 in FL., which also passed by only about 2% of the vote. Minority does not equal liberal.
I can't believe how good I feel. Invigorated, relaxed-yet-alert, and happy. Man, it's great to feel on top of the world like this!
@135
Here's a better idea: Why don't you "get over this shit."
I'll put my Eeyore credentials up against anybody's, but even I can recognize that the Presidency matters. Pissing in everyone's cornflakes may make you feel like you've fought the good fight today, but your attitude isn't that much different from a kid who thinks it's not "cool" to get good grades. Did you even vote? Wait, lemme guess--you're not going to participate in a bullshit system, nobody's vote matters anyway, blah, blah, blah.
Go ahead and keep thinking it doesn't matter who is elected President, but you're deluding yourself. The past eight years would've been completely different if that other "jackass" was President. Anybody who would argue otherwise is a fool.
I am glad it is over, and I congratulate our new president-elect. Our system works, his victory was a clear signal and a mandate from the electorate. He wasn't my choice, but he is my country's choice and that's the way our system works. That makes him my president, too. I wish him (and us) well, and I hope his years in office bring us all peace, prosperity, and hope for the future.
Mokey, maybe we should have voted for the one who used the label /community organizer/ as red-baiting code.
Avram @ 130: OK, if the current numbers I've seen don't include absentee ballots, then there's the historic turnout. Thanks for sending that along.
@117 and @135
Oh how I agree.
I voted McCain, but expected Obama to win.
Does it matter, not really.
Either way in four years the country will be a little worse off. (That's called being a realist)
The president, congress, nor senate can change things for the better. Not unless you mean creating a more socialistic government state, better. But I guess that's why every other country in the world is happy for us.
Like Mokey said, wake up and look outside your front door. Change isn't just about the "big" scale. In my opinion change should start with our children. Teach them the real world, the one that's cold, painful, and unforgiving. I went to college I know why they all voted for Obama. Teach our children how to respect others, fairness, logic, and to question the truth and ability of what others say. Only then will this country begin to change in a fundamental way.
And yet, we take steps backwards relative to gay progressivism. California writes gay discrimination into its Constitution; Florida does the same; Arkansas bans adoption by gay parents; and so on.
Forgive me, but the Obama victory is overshadowed by my personal loss of rights. I guess the wedding is off.
OM:
Forget all the silliness the GOP has pumped into your brain about "experience": Bush had tons of it and he wrecked the place. McCain has tons of experience being tortured in Vietnam and what did he do? Support a war overseas with a country that hadn't attacked us and then supported waterboarding.
Conclusion 1: You can easily take the wrong conclusions away from "experience".
Let us also remember an experienced governor from a southern state that presided over the largest economic expansion in US history: Bill Clinton.
Conclusion 2: No (political) experience can be a GOOD thing.,
Finally, remember that Obama, like Clinton DOES have experience. It just doesn't happen to be in DC politics.
Obama (unlike Bush) is smart enough to ask experts their opinion and then act intelligently on that information. If he and his team can react as quickly to real-world problems as they did to evil Republican dirty tricks, we just might dig our way out of the terrible terrible mess that the Republicans have left in their wake.
Prop 8: Tha' Ironicalness
From the Wall Street Journal:
This from a church that was actively persecuted in the 19th century by the Federal government because of its unpopular views on marriage. This persecution included federal laws which, among other things:
-Made Mormon polygamist marriages illegal
-Decreed that all cases related to polygamy were to be tried in Federal courts with federally appointed judges
-Provided for the prosecution of polygamists and imprisonment for up to six months under the guise of "unlawful cohabitation"
-Specifically removed the right to vote from all the women in Utah and polygamist men
-Seized church assets
-Declared all children of plural marriage to be illegitimate
Then there's that little section of the Venn diagram which describes Obama voters who voted "yes" on prop 8. According to the exit polls, 70% of African-Americans voted "yes." 94% of African-Americans voted for Obama. "Hope! But not for you," and "Change! But not too much."
Apparently, the pain of being persecuted for particular marriage practices has faded, as has that of being subject to racist miscegenation laws.
We've got a long way to go, folks...but the demographic tide is on our side.
Let me quote a 1932 campaign. It describes my feelings this time.
[Music and Lyrics by J. Yellen and M. Ager]
So long sad times
Go long bad times
We are rid of you at last
Howdy gay times
Cloudy gray times
You are now a thing of the past
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy days are here again
Altogether shout it now
There's no one
Who can doubt it now
So let's tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again
Your cares and troubles are gone
There'll be no more from now on
From now on ...
Happy days are here again
The skies above are clear again
So, Let's sing a song of cheer again
Happy times
Happy nights
Happy days
Are here again!
Prop 8 in CA shows that CA != SFO, I'll even go so far to say LA != SFO.
Much like every state, there is a lot of CA that is rural/conservative, and they overwhelmingly voted for Prop 8.
You also have a large urban religious population that probably voted for Prop 8 because it would make them feel like a sinner or less of a Christian to vote against it.
Seriously, the churchgoer/non-churchgoer split was something like 85/15! I don't assume those voting for it are homophobic, but they are drinking too much of their church's Kool-Aid.
mokey,
Why don't you go finish drinking that glass of bile somewhere else.
Ah, Ohio. You finally did the right thing *hugs her goofy state*
Something I found a little disturbing was that during McCain's speech, while he was completely honorable and admirable, the people in the crowd booed and shouted remarks. The polarization still exists, and I only hope that somehow Obama can bring us together (at least a little closer).
@99 Michigan didn't lose it's mind! What a refreshing thing. I was prepared for Prop 2 to go under, but was so happy to see it pass. Did you see that even Kent County, that bastion of conservatism, went blue?!
@119 Speak for yourself. I was definitely voting "for" Obama, regardless of how "against" GWB I am.
The scenes coming from the US last night reminded me of the election of Tony Blair
And the award for Most Subtle Buzzkill in the Thread goes to...
As a Canadian I'm really looking forward to seeing President Obama inaugurated. He is by the accounts I've read a compassionate pragmatist, and based on the quality of his campaign he's a competent executive, capable of choosing advisers wisely and keeping his organization on track. If I were an American I would have voted for him.
I am also aware of his imperfections, although not stupid enough to think that because he is imperfect he is necessarily inadequate.
His biggest imperfections seem to me on little-talked-about Constitutional issues. Others in this thread have said they are looking forward to a "good" man using the unconstitutional powers Bush claimed for the President. Unfortunately, everything we know about history, psychology and sociology tells us that where such powers are concerned there is no such thing as "good", only varying degrees of "extremely bad."
It IS morning in America, but to realize the promise of this morning, the Constitution needs to be restored. No more signing statements that declare the law will be interpreted to mean whatever the President damned well feels like, a practise that effectively puts the President above the law. No more extra-judicial declarations of guilt by Presidential determination. No more secret prisons. No more acts, EVER, that declare themselves beyond judicial review. An overturning of the Telecom Immunity Act (the Electronic Frontier Foundation is working on this.) An overturning of substantial portions of the PATRIOT Act and its children. No more gag orders on National Security Letters.
President Obama has his work cut out for him on the economy and America's position in the world, and he has a good chance of doing well in those areas. But the founders of the United States will keep spinning in their graves until the massive erosion of the Constitution that has taken place in the last eight years is substantially repaired.
Here in Seattle it really feels like something profound has happened. Not only did we elect Obama but we also passed support for our parks, Pike Place Market upgrades, and most importantly to expand rapid transit including big additions to our (soon to open) light rail system. The electorate seems to have developed a vision for the future and is seeing past the current downturn. We said "YES WE CAN!" right down the ballot. I know that Barack isn't magic and there will be hard times to get through, but up here in the Northwest folks seem to believe that we will get through.
Now I just want to hear Palin tell her followers that it's going to be OK, that Obama isn't all the nasty things she said he was, and everybody just needs to be cool and all pull in the same direction. Time to be a citizen now.
From: America
To: Bush, Addington, Rove, Cheney, Norquist, Gingrich, et al.
RE: Last Night
You can fool some of the people all of the time.
And all of the people some of the time.
But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Good Day to you, and may the doorknob hit your coccyx on the way out.
Wigwam, that is one magnanimous comment, you're man of your word.
If it doesn't affect civil unions, would NOT calling it marriage be such a big deal?
In other news, several states revoke women's right to vote, but that's okay because they can just tell their husbands what they want.
Sean Tevis, the Kansas Democrat whose XKCD-style campaign cartoon, "It’s Like A Flamewar with a Forum Troll, but with an Eventual Winner," helped make him a minor web celebrity (which may be the only kind there is) as well as a viable candidate for the Kansas legislature, has narrowly lost the race. Bummer.
I hope he tries again--maybe he can garner an endorsement from John Hodgman?
(Previous BB story: http://www.boingboing.net/2008/07/16/progressive-geek-loo.html )
For the rights of all citizens to be truly equal, they must also be equal in name.
Hey, like I said, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's Obama buzz. I came off a bit snobbish, but that is how I feel. It cannot be said that I've never done my part. I've spent a great deal of time as an organizer for for protests and conferences of various shades of left and post-left (community organizer?). I did vote, in Ohio, but I wrote in for Cthulhu (seriously). I don't think voting matters and I'm opposed to it on practical grounds. I used to vote and I'm now disgusted by it. It's a subjective perspective and I'm pretty fond of being able to make a joke with it.
However, I'm being completely genuine when I say that I'm glad that a lot of people I consider allies are happy with this outcome. I'm really glad to see my mom smile like I haven't in a long time.
I still stand by my statements about doing shit in your own community. Let's get to know the folks around us and help them out. They'll help you out when you need. Ha I guess basically I'm typing away to people I'll never meet. That's OK, I got a lot of love for wonderful things. Near or far, LEND ME SOME SUGER, I AM YOUR NEIGHBOR!
I think we could use less of both the "Stop celebrating, sheep!" and "Stop harshing my mellow!" attitudes.
Yes, Obama getting elected is a good thing. And it's also a wonderful demonstration of what ordinary folks can accomplish when they organize. There's something there that's worth celebrating. And it is important to recognize victories, because that memory of victory is what motivates people to fight the next battle.
However, there is an undeniable subtext in a lot of this celebration: the idea that we've won, that democracy and justice are safe now that we've crowned our champion, because he'll carry on the fight from here.
That's not just wrong, it's poisonously wrong. It's the kind of attitude which can diffuse all of the dynamic energy and potential which carried Obama this far. We must be sharply aware of this and guard against it, because it's happened to many a campaign before. The last thing we need is for Obama to turn around a year from now and see that all his rowdy, energetic, anti-establishment supporters are apathetic again, and the only people influencing him are the status quo elites. The last thing we need is to pin all our hope for change on Obama the man, rather than the ideals he represents to us.
So celebrate, yes. But let's celebrate our own potential, and what /we're/ going to accomplish during Obama's term, not what he's going to accomplish for us.
@160 IWOOD, I suspect said irony arrives from a false assumption regarding "morals".
Mormons were persecuted for practicing their beliefs as their oppressors were persecuted and so on. Treatment has little to do with the persecuted party's "faith".
Should married homosexual couples be obligated to support consensual polygamy, pedophilia, or beastiality? My point isn't to actually associate these, but to stress that semi-inherent differences matter.
For those who were asking about the voter turn-out. I'm in Orange County, Ca, and there was record low turn-out to vote here (if you look on MSNBC's map it's the little red spot on the coast in the south surrounded by blue). I don't know how it was in other places, but maybe republicans just didn't show. (I haven't really looked into it beyond here, and that vote-by-mail someone pointed to earlier might really be the answer)
And I'm angry about prop 8 passing. The only small glimmer on that black cloud is that the margin is significantly smaller than in 2000, and apparently people like me who were too young to vote then are voting against it now. So maybe soon we'll fix it and we'll have real equality here in CA, which will hopefully help with the rest of the country. But still! Argh!
...Ok, so is anyone going to explain what "H in Sunrays" means? Or is this one of those internet memes that if you're not l33t and in on the gag from the beginning, you're not k!k r@d or k00l enough to have it explained to you?
#146: "He wasn't my choice, but he is my country's choice and that's the way our system works. That makes him my president, too. I wish him (and us) well, and I hope his years in office bring us all peace, prosperity, and hope for the future."
I know I'm late, but #146 and the others who had similar messages - thank you!
I'm thrilled to hear Obama fans from all over the world rejoice.
I'm more thrilled when I hear those who didn't support him express their hope and willingness to work towards our shared future.
This pretty much undoes all the hurt I felt after reading the comments from the folks at foxnews - it restores my faith in humanity.
I'm going to take back the hateful things I said about a friend of mine who surprised me by voting for McCain.
We all have opinions: many minds, one world.
I just realized, I now know how it feels for my vote to have counted!
The conservative attack-machines that harangued Clinton for 8 years will redouble their efforts against Obama (all it takes is a cursory listen to AM talk radio or the message boards at freerepublic.com to understand that). This despite Obama's victory speech last night in which he basically offered an olive branch to the other side, asking that we work together, and despite Pelosi's comments today about "ruling from the middle." The mass of conservatives are not interested in "working together" with someone they believe is a Muslim/commie/Nazi, they feel it's their patriotic duty to disrupt Obama's presidency at all costs. These are the same people that insisted that the left was unpatriotic for questioning Bush during a time of war.
We all have opinions: many minds, one world.
ahem, E Pluribus Unum?
Thank god, thank god thank god.
People were crying and cheering on the streets in Brooklyn. Someone set off fireworks somewhere. My brother texted from Richmond Virginia, where a mass crowd of students and community members were having the happiest riot ever.
And re: all the "stop celebrating, nothing matters, nothing has changed you stupid sheep" etc -
It wasn't until this morning that I found out my home state of Virginia had gone blue. 41 years after it took the supreme court to force them to stop considering interracial marriage a felony and Virginia just elected a multi-racial man as president. I was crying at work this morning.
That is a *HELL* of a change. It doesn't eliminate poverty or racism or injustice or anything else in and of itself, but it's a hell of a change in the minds of Virginians. And it's a hell of a good place to start working towards more and better things.
And it also gives me serious hope, even if Prop 8 passes, as looks inevitable now. I will live to see a time when Prop 8 is a forgotten footnote in a shameful history, as irrelevant and dead as Pace v. Alabama (1883).
a fine point, #175. A fine point indeed. Vigilance is mandatory.
There's a facebook group urging people to wear all black to mourn the death of equality in California. Prop 8 looks like it has passed. Yup, they acutally AMENDED THE STATE CONSTITUTION to TAKE AWAY PEOPLE'S EQUAL RIGHTS!
Metaphorical Cowboy @ #176
I haven't made any assumptions about morals or faith at all.
This isn't about people "supporting" anything whatsoever. This is in large part about State recognition of an individual church's decision to let gays and lesbians participate in its sacrament of marriage.
What the supporters of prop 8 have done is dictate whether any church can include gays in lesbians of marriageable age in its particular sacrament of marriage.
In other words, they have used a legal process to suppress religious freedom.
By your argument, the issue of whether same race couples should be "obligated to support" mixed race marriages remains open.
Go California! Striking down rights, one at a time!
"Is it too late to impeach the scum or at least charge them with treason "
Depends on how many get out of jail free cards Bush passes out on the way out.
The best hope for justice may be if the culprits enter a foriegn country and are arrested for violation of international law.
@BCSIZEMO:
"Either way in four years the country will be a little worse off. (That's called being a realist)
The president, congress, nor senate can change things for the better."
That sounds more like 'being a pessimist'. If you mean that the circumstances mean creating a better socio-economic environment is very difficult, then yes, that would be realistic.
Saying that your government is powerless to do >anything
"Not unless you mean creating a more socialistic government state, better." This doesn't make any sense given what you've just said, and is a cheap and uninformed jibe based on irrational fears of socialism (which seem to me often to be equated to Communism). Obama clearly isn't a Communist - taxing the top 2% who already have more than enoug money, and reducing taxes on those who clearly don't is, in aggregate terms, good economic sense.
I will be incredibly interested in just what kind of "change" Obama will bring. We already saw his effort (or lack there of) to change how AT&T was treated for the unwarranted Wiretaps. I'm not a big fan of McCain either... taking on Palin as a VP choice was politically and logically stupid.
But the presidence has been set by Bush/Cheney... there's way too much power in the executive branch as it is, and I seriously doubt when given so much power and free reign Obama will just let it go. (Here's hoping). The other thing that offers me serious pause is a Democrat as President with a fully Democrat-controlled Congress. It was catastrophic when the Republican's had the Presidency and Congress - having one party control two of the three branches oppresses the minority and does nothing to help create bi-partisanship.
As a side note, I noticed in Rochester, NY a shit-ton of candidates on both sides tacking the word "Change" on to their lawn signs and in their commercials. I'd love to see some statistics down the line on how many of them actually instigated *positive* change - because remember, change can go either way.
/pez prepares for the backlash
Mokey:
I understand your reluctance to believe in anything so ephemeral as hope, and I guess we will have to see if Obama can affect the machine in the way that he wants to, but your premise that no President has ever changed anything is just short-sighted.
Most importantly, they appoint Supreme Court justices. The Supremes have perhaps the most lasting impact on the hoi polloi.
Om and BCSIZEMo, SUCK IT! lawd that felt good.
I am finally proud to be an american today. Now I'm waiting to see how the next 1460 days(plus days till bush is out) go.
Prop 8 hurts, but this is a beginning, not an end.
@132 and 178 The H in sunrays was a road sign left by hobo's to signify that now was the time for the hobo revolution.
Or so as it was told in JOHN HODGMAN'S book Areas of my Expertise.
and as for this election, I'm a hard core scientist, an atheist, and a quasi-anarchist. I was debating my vote between Nader and obama. I decided to flip a coin, it came up obama. I flipped it 3 more times to make sure, it was three more times heads (obama). Either obama has secretly invented a machine to alter the laws of probability or the Universe was pointing me somewhere.
I didn't know what it felt like not to feel like crap until today. to no feel angry, to not feel sad for my world. That there was a bit of progress coming, to undo the injustices that have been inflicted on this country and it's people by the last 4 presidents.
And as much as obama's speech was amazing, I was more happy to see john McCain be himself again, and to stab all the racist bigots in the back. I swear I saw a skin head caught like a deer in headlights by his speech.
and on a technical thought, when are the spell checkers going to be updated to include barak and obama in them?
The final update to PalinAsPresident.com.
Congratulations, Barack.
(original site at PalinAsPresident.com/never)
Lessig? Schneier? You do realize, deep down, that Obama's cabinet is going to consist mainly of a pack of old white guys in suits, right? And mostly either Bill Clinton's old white guys or their assistants... you remember, the crowd that thought the DMCA was a fine idea.
(Don't get me wrong, Obama's election is a historic and excellent thing. But it's more in the vein of a dodged bullet than a sudden burst of flowers where none had grown before.)
The challenge to prop 8's constitutionality will likely be along the lines of: Previous rulings stated that marriage is a "fundamental right" in CA and such basic rights cannot be removed based on a simple majority. You cannot take away a "fundamental right" by amending the CA constitution, it has to be revised. Revision requires a constitutional convention, which itself requires a 2/3 legislative vote.
I don't know if it will succeed or not but it seems like a good plan of attack. It ain't over yet.
"Om and BCSIZEMo, SUCK IT! lawd that felt good."
...Teresa must still be out sick. Otherwise, this would have gotten at least disemvoweled, if not punted.
[shakes head in utter dismay]
The best part about all of this is now i can laugh at Sarah Palin instead of being scared of her.
To quote a song: "It's bittersweet; more sweet then bitter..."
I'm thrilled to see the insane clown posse (sorry for stealing a band name which is unrelated, but it is a perfect 3-word description) deposed at the national level, but here in the foothills of N. California, we have Prop h8, and that's really, really sad.
However, like the the delay to give women employment rights, decades after giving them voting rights; after passing the Civil Rights Act generations after the Emancipation Proclamation, and now electing a president that isn't melanin-challenged... We will see that overturned in time. Twenty years from now, maybe we can have our first lesbian president! Twenty after that, an athiest... who knows?
The H8ers win a lot of battles, but lose a lot of wars (too bad they keep starting the damn things)!
and on a technical thought, when are the spell checkers going to be updated to include barak and obama in them?
Right click the word and there should be an option "add to dictionary."
Wonderful job voters. We pulled out despite great odds.
PS. I'm very surprised at the lack of trolls! Not that I'm complaining, mind you.
I posted earlier, #92, and have read all the comments. Everyone still doesn't get it. We get the government we deserve. Obama doesn't matter. You could elect Jesus Christ, and things would continue to get worse. The legislative branch would block him. The people have to stop electing representatives of the political machine, and start electing political revolutionaries, if not blood-in-the-street ones. Stop voting for the staus quo. Vote for people like Nader, Ron Paul, etc. Vote for people who want REAL CHANGE.
I'm very glad that Obama won. Personally, I always vote third party to be contrarian. A quick Google search did bring me this small article (in response to earlier discussion):
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409
Please don't hate me too much for linking it. I'm already having a rough day given the passage of prop 8 and defeat of prop 5 here in California :(
Two things. First, it's too good to be true. It's going to take a few days to sink in. Right up to the last minute I was waiting for an October surprise or the polls to be all wrong or,...
Second thing - wandering around Westminster on the morning after the Labour victory in 1997 (ending 18 years of Tory government.) The atmosphere of quiet disbelief,.. is it over? finally, really over?
Really?
I'm going to sleep soon, after staggering around the office like a zombie all day cos I stayed up until 5am (in the uk) and crawled into work 2h late, after a few hours' fitful sleep with the tv still on. I am SO looking forward to sleeping, but even more I'm looking forward to waking up again tomorrow and remembering that it really, really happened.
Now I have to go watch the 10pm news without crying in public... I've not seen anything since I passed out last night.
I just don't get your comparison. Married or not, both partners in a same-sex couple have the right to vote. Same-sex marriage would be a new right. Women's suffrage is something that has been established for decades, and something people just accept as normal. Like it or not, legally recognized same-sex partnerships do not have that commonality yet. It's still very much controversial.
What I was asking is that as long as civil unions grant the same legal rights and protections as "marriage", if the conservatives want to take their "marriage" ball and go home, then forget about them.
All partnerships, straight or gay, should have to be filed as said civil unions. If the church wants to make "marriage" something discriminatory, then fine. It's not a legally recognized status.
I voted for chicken, between the two choices of chicken and turkey. Doesn't matter who you call turkey and who you call chicken. A win for one party is a win for both - as they both want to maintain what we have - a federal gov't which is too bloated and a system that rewards those who run it.
noen @ #197
Already in play:
Legal Groups File Lawsuit Challenging Proposition 8, Should It Pass
AHOJ: before you do as Tom Hale suggested and add Barack's name to the dictionary, make sure you spell it with the "c" included.
Thank you, #55 "BEVATRON REPAIRMAN"
The world needs more people like you. People who are willing to see through personal opinions and petty differences. People who are willing to reach across party lines and do whatever it takes to make the world a better place.
Full disclosure: I'm an American living in Europe, an Obama supporter, and I vote via absentee ballot in Georgia, where my vote goes to waste every time. I know first-hand the reputation that America has with the rest of the world, and I understand how we got that reputation.
But I also know that if more of us are willing to be open-minded and listen to what both sides have to say, there is hope...
Personally, I'm in favor of revoking state sponsorship from all marriages. Anyone - lovers, siblings, parents and children - should be able to sign a civil contract and have the same legal and financial rights. In the interim, I want complete equality of marriage rights. Anything less is just Bruce Crow.
re: #32 Hamish Kuzminski "did anyone notice the First Lady Elect's wardrobe malfunction at the Acceptance Speech?!"
Uh, that was Narciso Rodriguez and was pretty nice:
http://nymag.com/daily/fashion/2008/11/michelle_obama_wears_spring_20.html?mid=fashion-alert--20081105
"All partnerships, straight or gay, should have to be filed as said civil unions. If the church wants to make "marriage" something discriminatory, then fine. It's not a legally recognized status."
If we eliminated the legal status of the word 'marriage,' this could work. If it was simply a cultural term, a social ceremony and/or a spiritual blessing without any legal ramifications, everyone could do what they wanted with it.
I would personally like to see this change happen. 'Marriage' carried too much baggage, it shouldn't be used for legal purposes.
But that's not going to happen, at least not in the immediate future. The word 'marriage' is used socially and culturally and spiritually, but it also has a parallel and separate existence as a legal contract.
Attempting to purge the legal code of this word and replace it with 'civil unions' for everybody would cause shitstorm to dwarf anything we've seen with gay marriage. Rather than expanding existing legal structures for recognizing a family unit to include more people, we're talking about dismantling and rebuilding the system entirely. The anti-gay marriage people would see it as a fulfillment of their worst fears - that we are out to 'destroy marriage.' They would lose the manipulative power they have through the use of a culturally loaded term.
I hope and cautiously expect to see the end of the legal use of "marriage" language. But it will take decades, and we're probably going to see federally recognized gay marriage first.
And as long as the specific Marriage Contract remains our primary way of recognizing two adults not related by blood or adoption as being a family unit and next of kin, yes it does matter if we have a 'separate-but-equal' system. Even if the rights and obligations involved are essentially the same, separate is inherently unequal, because if there was equality there would be no need to distinguish between the groups.
Bruce Crow, eh? It's catchy. Stomping out Jim Crow took federal action. Bruce Crow is going to require the same. More for Obama to deal with, eh?
It's not a two-way street. Even if CA had voted NO to Prop 8, "California Marriages" wouldn't be recognized nationwide. You're still screwed if you end up on life support in Alabama or something. FWIW, the same holds true for still-recognized CA "domestic partnerships" (although CA does recognizes all other states' civil unions)
Wikipedia has a very dense article on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008)
I confess that her dress made me think of a black widow. It probably depends on where you live. I see them constantly.
Since Michelle Obama is tall, athletic, smart, well-educated and direct, I wonder if we're going to have to sit through another eight years of people calling the first lady a lesbian shrew.
Marriage was traditionally defined as being between a man and a woman because marriage was traditionally defined as a man owning a woman. I think that people are more threatened by the thought of equality between men and women than between gay and straight.
It occurred to me far too late today that I wanted a paper copy of the NYT. How silly of me, to think there would be a single copy left in NYC.
(There were WSJ's available, but I couldn't bring myself to.)
@211 Antinous, I completely agree.
It's real late to be getting on this thread, but reading the comments above, sitting here crying at the sense of renewal and hope in the US, I wanted to add my voice to the chorus.
Congratulations USA, it's great to have you back, love from Australia.
My parents are now considering changing their status to "civil union" in protest. I've heard it argued that regardless of a states "marriage" laws, one is free to write a private contract that sets up the same recognition of rights (medical decisions, etc.). I was wondering if anyone here knew if that was true. Furthermore, if one goes about writing their own private "marriage" contract rather than just getting a state "marriage" in the situation of sharing a home with a foreign national, how would this affect ones spouse's ability to attain citizenship?
one is free to write a private contract that sets up the same recognition of rights (medical decisions, etc.). I was wondering if anyone here knew if that was true.
You would have to spend (possibly lots of) money to secure the same rights that married couples receive more or less free. And in some situations, your rights would be swept aside (legally or not) if a parent or child showed up and asserted dominance.
I've lived in California since the 70s, and worked in hospitals. Denial of visitation rights would be extremely unusual here, and I've made life-and-death decisions with the simple credential of roommate or best friend. But that was San Francisco. In many areas of the US, it's highly likely that your wishes would take second place to whatever your nearest blood relative wanted. Being legally married would put the ball back in your court. At least after the first huge lawsuit.
It's ridiculous. Time to move on and accept gay marriage.
I know a couple who fought hard to be parents and met opposition all the way (I'm in Georgia). They are stand up parents who are making a huge difference with their kids. Come on-is legal marriage so much to ask?
om, somebody sounds a little angry and bitter. if my "SUCK IT" comment offended you, then in the spirit of the times i humbly appologize. it was just a joke, but i know that a lot of republicans have an iffy sense of humor at best, and at worst, no ability to laugh at themselves whatsoever. once again , i'm sorry for telling you to "SUCK IT". BTW if t. did disemvowell me ( wouldn't be the first time!) at least i think she would get a chuckle out of it. go president hussein II !
weightedcompanioncube - All partnerships, straight or gay, should have to be filed as said civil unions. If the church wants to make "marriage" something discriminatory, then fine. It's not a legally recognized status.
Normally I would use italics to quote someone. You're just so correct that I had to draw attention to your rightness.
Goodness, I didn't realize there were so many gay folks on BB. Not that I have a problem with that or anything - some of my best friends are gay. -er well, that's not really true. Actually I don't think I know any gay guys, but I used to work with a gay female nurse - she was hot.
Civil unions are well and good if they're recognised for other purposes. However, I note that U.S. immigration policies recognise only "spouses", and seem to exclude same-sex marriage from that definition.
As a contrasting example, Canada recognises a "spouse, common-law or conjugal partner". "Conjugal partner" is defined as openly and inclusively as possible.
So, if you were gay, and married to your partner, and were offered a 3-5 year Ph.D. position in the United States, you would have the choice between being physically separated from your husband for most of those 3-5 years, or turning down the position.
I hope people realize I was kidding in my last post. The last year reading and talking on BB has really opened my eyes on a lot of subjects. Mu horizons have certainly been broadened and some of my beliefs have been maybe slightly altered - at least shaken a bit. Which I consider a good thing. - God, I gotta stop skipping church!
equal marriage rights are easy to obtain. Impose a marriage tax to be paid annually by couples. Within three years the government would have an entire department devoted to tracking down and proving people were in civil unions and owed money. Any body with the vaguest of roomies would find themselves deemed "married".
Above - not mu - my
Tom Hale: One can stand up for people to have equal rights without necessarily being a part of that group. Did you think only minorities marched for civil rights back in the 50's-60's? / -Only women stood up for equal rights in the 70's?
Ah, now after a refresh, I see you were attempting to kid. Good.
BTW, I liked your comment @22. =D
I just have a question ? This morning I posted something potentially unpopular at position #85. I checked a little later and found that people had commented on it. I checked again and found my posting had been replaced by some older person blathering, and mine had been moved to #92. Is this common, or am I being paranoid ?
Our president here (Brazil) have asked for Obama to end the US Cuban embargo. He *really* should stop drinking.
Re: the H in Sunrays: It is, as #194 said, the hobo sign signifying that it's time for hoboes to take over the United States government. This is explained by John Hodgman in the Areas of My Expertise, which you should have all read by now. Also found in that book, numbered 424 of 700, is a hobo named "Illinois Obama". Prophetic!
Pseudonym @ 321--numbering of posts can change depending on whether an earlier post gets removed (ok, I'll say "unpublished" but I don't have to like it) or, as sounds like the case for yours, if anonymous posts that came in before yours get held in the moderation queue and then get published in the thread. I think that's how it works, at least--I just hang out here.
I came to terms with not being able to marry when I came out in my teens, much like I came to terms with the fact that if I wanted a child it'd be very difficult.
But the world has changed, and the younger kids I hang out with a light years above my peers when I was 15/16.
The fact that the world is having this debate can only be a good thing - us gays will strive for equality continually, and it times when it is denied we'll fight harder.
I still don't want to get married, but I don't want kids coming out thinking they can't be a part of a "true" marriage, or that they can't be parents simply because of their orientation.
Despite being struck down I still think it is amazing that it was put to a referendum all the same, and speaks volumes for an America that seems so troubled, in so many ways. I wouldn't be too defeated on it's failing to be struck down - the good fight is well underway, so good on you CA. residents who did vote 'no' and do care.
Tom Hale: Keep skipping church if it closes your mind and narrows your horizons (or find a better one that doesn't do that. God created vast vistas, infinite diversity and inquisitive intelligence for a reason, imho.)
splendid graphic representation of the nature of evil
http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/blogged_down_in_the_past.php
takuan, no one does evil quite as well as the catholic church: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprjmoSMJ-o
SIGH.
i can finally function again after crying all last night, and crying again tonight while watching Oprah with my mom (ha!).
i can't even IMAGINE what this must feel like to a black person. every time i try, it blows my smithereened mind into even MORE smithereens! take THAT status quo! right in the cornhole!
it was also very refreshing watching my PA go for obama +11. it feels like ive been talking to people about Barack for as long as i can remember...im not going to know what to do with myself now! Election HuffPo is like crack to me!
everyone needs to remember what Obama said though. his election is not the change we seek, rather it is the chance to create that change. the world wants it, baby. just look the posts on this page...people are hungry. i hope our voices dont grow hoarse in the months ahead. and i hope the republicans out there can support our new president like i supported bush... until he started jacking ish up.
Our voices HAVE been heard. the country AND the world are watching. regardless of what happens, and how effective Obama can be given the circumstances, CHANGE has been demanded. and we wont stop until we get it. but dont be discouraged - our great democracy can move at molasses' pace sometimes - get INVOLVED! lose the cynicism! rather than gripe about how great a gold standard (!) would be, form groups, spread knowledge, be part of our government! We need to supply feedback! they all work for US!
im so happy to be able to share this time, this "wonderful thing" with all you boingers.
this country + this site makes me a happy mutant...err...robot.
"to those who tear the world down - WE WILL DEFEAT YOU!!!" -OURBO!!
anybody know who won the most " mccain points"?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/05/BA3B13UM63.DTL
Antinous @216, "I think that people are more threatened by the thought of equality between men and women than between gay and straight."
That would probably be especially true of the core group of christians who oppose these measures. Many of whom see the wife's role as not only dutifully supportive of her husband, but ultimately subservient to the king of the house. Not to say these men all rule with an iron fist, but in the final tally his vote is worth more than hers and she supports his decision, it's her duty.
Well, Bush is gone, we can all go back to sleep now.
Or can we?
The most important thing now is to not forget that the party of Obama is the party that has enabled and forgiven the crimes of the Bush regime for eight years.
We have elected a man who shows considerable personal charm and charisma. He has managed to parlay emotional appeals to optimism, "change," and "hope" into a successful presidential run.
Yet he has also shown a willingness to betray the core values of "change" that his supporters desire.
For instance: the FISA vote, actively endorsing the warmonger Joe Lieberman over Ned LaMont in 2006, the support of the bailout, agitating for war in Pakistan or Iran, or selecting a man who claims to have written large parts of the Patriot Act for his Vice President.
Is he better than McCain? Of course, my pet frog is better than McCain, and the Republicans need to be flayed bloody for their abandonment of the Constitution and anything good they ever stood for.
But, with the Congress firmly in Democratic hands, and an inexperienced and malleable president who will be under the sway of whoever has his ear, we must be as skeptical and vigilant as ever.
The positive side of George Bush's presidency is that his violence and criminality were blatant enough to be obvious to the average person on the street. Obama's job is now to resucitate trust in the government, without upsetting the apple cart too much.
But "change?" Obama has had a year to talk about the real fundamental change that our society, economy, and government needs. In my opinion, he has failed to do so. Let's see what he does once he no longer has to parse his words for the pressure of the campaign trail and sits in the Oval Office.
=======================================
On a seperate, but related note.
All positive change in history has come from individual initiative and voluntary cooperation. Nothing is more dangerous than thinking that someone is going to come from on high and fix all your problems.
Be glad Bush is gone. But keep your head. Don't forget that the most murderous entities of the 20th century were governments that had grown large and powerful through the promise of providing for for the good of all.
Help your neighbors. Help strangers. Share. Show generosity of money, time, and spirit. Care for the environment. Be conscious of how your actions and decisions affect others and the world around. Do your best to make the world a better place. Your life will grow richer for it.
But remember that freedom is the basis of human life. Only voluntary decisions have dignity. You can never coerce another to do good for the world, it will cause harm in the long run and delay them realizing the error of their ways.
Your life and your effect on the world is your responsibility and yours alone. Do not cede this responsibility to anyone.
Be a light that shines on others and lifts them up. Burn as brightly as you can, burn like a star in the sky. The dark of night is illuminated by a billion candles, each with their own distinct, unique flame, creating one light.
52% of Californians who voted, voted to pass Prop 8. No way all those folks are Christians or church-going. The task for gay community strategists is to forget religious folks - they're a done deal - and find out why non-churchgoers oppose GM, who they are demographically and create a message that wins their hearts and minds. Were it Christians alone, 8 would've failed, even with Gavin Newsom's hubris.
there should still be a coordinated attack on the mormons. $25,000,000.00 of hate literature is causus belli.
@#20 said "I'm afraid Obama will be far more like FDR than anyone would like -- watching over the country in the midst of a great depression, lengthening and worsening it in his misguided attempts to improve things, and looking so damn good in the process that no one has the heart to blame him."
I can't think of an American historian who would agree with this assesment of FDR's presidency. Of course he didn't "fix" the depression- He had quite an opposition. This also explains why the US was somewhat slow to lend a financial hand at the early stages of the war (the first major program was the cash and carry one, I think, which in theory was open to everyone, including the Germans- any American historians, feel free to correct me). This explains why we did not enter the war until after pearl harbor- he did not have the political capital, frankly. A president does not rule by decree, but has to work within the push back between his branch and congress.
And @# 25- you said: "I cannot find any evidence that the man has been recognised by any academic body as an expert in historical research (i.e. has been awarded a Ph.D.), or that he has published a single peer-reviewed article of any form."
But Kieran, Everyone knows those who get a degree in higher education, especially in the more "liberal" arts like history, are just a bunch of Marxist-stalinist who hate America!!! Maybe you missed that class in your university- you know the I
Ha! I soooo love that joke... Just kidding. You are totally right. No self respecting Americanist who agree with that statement. At least not the ones at my department.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7713334.stm
It's like September 11, but the opposite.
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Many thanks America. Feelin' the vibe up here in the Cold North. It's such a wave of inspiration and it's chargin' me up in a big way.
@246 Mindysan33: Certainly, most historians embrace the new deal. But many economists do not. The case can certainly be made that his policies of trying to prevent prices from correcting to a natural market level (such as how housing prices in America need to drop by 30-50% to their natural levels in order for a recovery to happen) extended the depression for as long as a decade.
Federal reserve prints money, there's a bubble, everyone is happy and buys champagne (1920s, 1990s, 2000s), bubble pops, everyone is unhappy and demands the government fix it (1930s, 2000, now). Government is unable to admit, for politial reasons, that it was Federal reserve policy that caused the initial wrong decisions in the first place, so they do everything possible to seem like they are doing good, while prolonging the bad situation.
Heres a few pieces which detail the argument that FDR prolonged the depression by years:
"FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate"
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409
"The Mythology of Roosevelt and the New Deal"
http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=176
A whole book on the subject:
http://www.mackinac.org/article.aspx?ID=4013
Belated congrats from Amsterdam, Europe somewhere! (Berth of Gay Marriage, but that's a topic for another thread :-p )
What a relief! After eight years of black-and-white Battle Of Good And Evil rhetoric, it will be good to have a man of colour for president of the USA. Even John McCain seemed to be relieved with this outcome.
@249
I'm not a economist, but prof. Paul Krugman is quite convincing:
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/08/new-deal-economics/
His conclusion: "Implications for Obama: be inspired by FDR, but don’t imitate him slavishly. In particular, your economic policy should be bolder, not more cautious. "