Palin's nightmare
Scott Horton of Harper's posted this video of Palin at a rally in Des Moines, Iowa, on Saturday where she "told the crowd that an Obama presidency would present the specter of a socialist state in which fundamental American freedoms are undermined."
Horton goes on to ask:
Does Sarah mean a state:Read the rest here: Palin's nightmare* That snatches its victims off the street, denies them all form of legal process and whisks them away to secret “blacksites” where they can be tortured using all the techniques described in Arthur Koestler’s Darkness at Noon?
* That arrests and prosecutes its political adversaries for imaginary crimes so as to eliminate them from the running in election cycles in which they could do some damage?
* That destroys the careers of professional military men because they got promotions under a prior regime and therefore considers them disloyal?
* That believes it can detain and hold its enemies forever without any charges or any evidence against them, denying them access to courts to prove their innocence?
...
Sarah, you have no need to fear the future.
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This is starting to feel wildly irresponsible; it reminds me of when Hillary went unbelievably nasty right before losing in the primaries. Given that it is quite likely Obama will be President, it's by no means in the national interest to have people genuinely believe he's an evil person.
It's frustrating to hear politicians in one breath preach their unflinching dedication to "what's best for America" and then in the next spread insidious lies about someone who might lead America for 4 years.
ackkkkk. I can't stand her.
At least when this is all over, the survivors will have learned that "communist" and "totalitarian" are not equivalent, and at the very least you can have a totalitarian state that isn't communist.
By the way - does McCain give speeches anymore?
Youdon't think Palin troubles herself with little details like current events or critical thinking do you?
Palin is in some ways right, Obama will not give us a smaller government and he hasn't shown a strong commitment to protecting our rights and freedoms.
Then again, neither has McCain. They both voted for FISA and neither of them have made a strong showing for supporting any internet freedoms. Obama wants to get rid of conceal carry for anyone that isn't a police officer or former military.
George Washington said that a two party system would be the downfall of america and its because it creates a culture where everyone is all or nothing for their candidate.
It's this sort of mentality that got us the candidate that we've got in this election. Admit that your candidate is not god and has problems, the sooner everyone does this the sooner we can honest discussions.
Disclaimer: I don't support any candidate, I think they are equally crappy
I wonder- which is worse:
Socialism?
Fascism?
And- does Palin even know the difference between the two?
Admit that your candidate is not god and has problems
Admit that nobody thinks that he's god. It's an election campaign. It's always like this. Both sides have marketers, supporters and detractors who become histrionic. While you're at it, admit that you just spewed a McCain Talking Point.
Socialism doesn't necessarily mean anti-America, does it? Is she saying that the sate would be socialist AND would undermine "American values" (whatever those are), or socialist BECAUSE "American values" would be undermined?
I'm sure there's some badly veiled Atheist USSR vs. Holy USA memetics here. I'm just wondering how explicit it is.
Sarah has gone rogue. She's not under the control of her handlers anymore. The campaign thinks she's undermining everything. Go, Sarah!
I always thought justice was best served by the basic premise that the accused do not have to prove their innocence, but that those who make the accusations must prove them to be true before a court of law. But maybe that is just old-fashioned. Regardless, detaining without access to a court is wrong.
Can we get some more factually incorrect comments to support false equivalency here? We are way below the usual quota of crapulence so far.
This is why I love living in Canada: the ballot I was presented with in the booth during our federal election a couple weeks ago would be Ms. Palin's holy water and crucifix. There was an independent, a Liberal, a Conservative, a New Democrat, a Green and a Marxist-Leninist. Wheee!
Regardless of how you feel about Palin, at least get your forms of unpleasant government correct. Socialism, as Palin refers to it, is the current system in place in most European countries where taxes are astronomically high, and the government supplies far more services to its citizens than the US. The form of government you are trying to shape Palin's fear into is fascist rather than socialist. Hate her if you want, but at least be able to criticize without drawing specious arguments.
I can't listen to her, I just can't. She makes me physically ill.
@thefirstman
Yeah, I'm really getting a strong cold war undertone from the ed McCain/Palin camp recently, especially after that whole thing with Bachmann.
There's been alot of pro-America (red state) vs anti-Americ (blue state) talk from the GOP, now didn't Obama give a speech about that 4 years ago...?
Yes, those terrible countries with socialized services where people are not free like Canada and France.
Meanwhile the D.C. Metro has decided to conduct random bag inspections. I'm not sure but I think people in D.C. don't even have representation like the States do.
Viva la Fascisme!
Regardless of how you feel about Palin, at least get your forms of unpleasant government correct.
It's Palin who needs to get it right.
Good luck with that.
@ANTINOUS My comment is meant for both sides. Though you are right that it applies more to Obama than McCain. I think that's because McCain supporters are only his supporters because they don't like Obama whereas people genuinely believe in Obama (in many cases).
You are right that this happens in just about every election but but thats what I'm saying is a problem. The more we support fanatical supporters the more we undermine real political dialog and the more we encourage candidate to hide their agendas. (no Im not trying to "spew" a talking point and I'll pull examples from all candidates if you can't figure it out yourself)
#13 Trey
I think that portraying taxes in Europe as "astronomically high" is highly misleading. Beyond that, there are great differences in taxes between, say, the UK and Scandinavia.
#13 Trey:
The problem is that Palin uses the word "Socialism" where she probably means "Stalinism"/"Communism", ie the American monster under the bed, in the closet, and in your local womens issues club during the McCarthy Era.
And apparently in the minds of some Republicans.
I'm against socialism - as most people are. I just want the government to insure me, educate me, protect me, and lastly bathe me.
She reminded me of someone else, I personally believe...people out there in our nation...I believe that our, ah,... everywhere like such as...but I can't remember who.
OK, but the sponge will be on a stick.
@#21 Jerril
Words are for fgs.
Ugghh, she is just awful! Total fanatic!
McCain is not in control of his campaign nor his vice president nominee. If he won, god only knows who would be in control of the white house? I hope everyone saw the clip that the person who spread around rumors of Obama being a muslin has now changed his mind. The only proof he had was his "informed opinion."
whoops... meant "@#22 Jerril"
Aparently numbers are for fgs too. But who needs either when God is on your side?
This is way the rest of the world thinks the USA has gone mad... She makes me ill. Geeez.
Now I have to watch cuteoverload.com for half an hour to calm down. Pictures of kittens. Give them to me. Kittens. Prrrr. Sigh.
even allowing for the fact she is stupid, to see her willfully stand before the cameras and parrot the pernicious, vile,lying manipulations she does in the naked aim of gaining power at any cost... This woman is evil.
Oh. . . where to begin. . . it's pointless to argue with idealogues about the definitions of "socialism" and "freedom" and such . . . I actually saw a woman on TV interviewed in the wake of the London bombings say "we should give up freedom for the sake of liberty"-- huh? what? That's like saying "we should give up legs for the sake of feet."
All that needs to be said is that those horrible evil "socialist" countries of Europe (that are our allies, by the way) are more-or-less as "free" as the US (with minor differences), plus they have better education and health care, longer life expectancy, lower crime rate, and (last I checked) several of the richest men on Earth came from a socialist countries. So the socialist bogey-man doesn't scare me as much as the capitalist disaster we're seeing now, OR the totalitarian leanings of Dick Cheney's "executive privilege" white house.
Besides, the US is already a de-facto socialist country: income tax, inheritance tax, social security, etc.
I don't mind paying taxes, as long as I'm getting my money's worth (and NO, I don't think we have been getting our moneys-worth, but that doesn't mean I want to give up on government).
Everyone knows by now that Ssara Palin is sympathetic supporter of the right-wing Alaskan Independence Party that wants to secede from the union. But she also has ties to an even crazier organization, the Dominionist Constitution Party. They wish to bring a real theocratic dictatorship to America and would make for instance simply being gay a crime punishable by the death penalty.
She is no laughing stock. She is a very dangerous person.
You're misunderstanding here - she's talking about fundamental American freedoms.
Things like due process, freedom from arbitrary search, seizure, arrest and detention, are fundamental anti-American freedoms. We hate those things.
Fundamental American freedoms aren't boring, technical, elitist freedoms like those ones. They're rocking freedoms, awesome freedoms, like the freedom to drive down an Interstate in a convertible with the top down, the freedom to drink whiskey and shoot things, and the freedom to choose from fifty different brands of cigarette.
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/9/2/171322/8599
First get this right, Americans pay as much or more in taxes and fees as anyone else in other developed countries and we get less for it. What we pay in individual income taxes is just the tip of the iceberg.
We pay income taxes, in many cases both state and federal. Then we also pay all the taxes paid by every business just as we pay their utility bills. Remember, businesses don't pay taxes, they collect taxes for the government. We also pay for corporations to collect taxes and fight paying taxes. We also pay sales taxes, municipal franchise fees, sin taxes, luxury taxes, usage fees, fuel taxes, and property taxes. And a very small percentage of us pay capital gains and estate taxes. Then we pay, separately, for health care, where this country spends more per capita and once again gets less. The problem is there is no way to ever know how much we pay.
The fundamental problem with this is that Obama is in no way a socialist, nor is he proposing the end of capitalism in this country. This all stems from an unfortunate word choice in his encounter with Joe the Plumber. The truth is that for the past 20 years there has already been a MASSIVE redistribution of wealth. It's just that the direction was upward and outward. McCain, for all his current handwringing over the current economic crisis, is at his core in favor of unfettered capitalism. Which hasn't worked out so very well for us, has it. Bring on the fetters. Whatever they are... maybe they're cute, like ferrets.
The heartland of our country is as strong as our V.P's. It is only beating because of the massive give outs from government. Most people do not benefit and have a hard time making it. Voting fodder for the various "mongering" and "baiting" tactics that have been so successful in taping the emotional vote. Won't work this time. The lies are too obvious.
CHETOVERTON@16: Are you saying Bachmann was the one to turn her into overdrive? She must really be takin' care of business then, doncha know.
@ Noen and Takuan
That makes my head hurt. That's the first I've heard about that kind of crazy, and now I'm even more nervous for Election Day. I know all the polls have Obama up, but the ballots still have to be counted...
I feel like I need a unicorn chaser
Man, I remember when Palin voted for all that stuff. Wow, its just amazing how much power the governor of Alaska has, isnt it?
Pln bshng n ths st s s frggn' brng.
P3N3NC3@43: Editor bashing is what is really freaking boring in my book. It is amazing that you can't seem to find your spacebar with both hands.
Palin bashing on this site is soooooo friggin' boring.
But you have to admit the technology BB uses to force people to read and comment on stories they find boring is pretty freakin' amazing.
no one here seems to have noticed yet that at :40 someone in the crowd shouts "he's a nggr"
why was that disenvowelled???
The power of the word to offend exceeds its potential information value. It's one of the few rules over which I have no discretion. It's not meant to reflect badly on you. In fact, thank you for pointing it out in the first place.
Speaking of Alaska, Ted "Tubes" Stevens was convicted of lying about receiving gifts worth $250K. Interestingly, although convicted felons can't vote, they are not barred from serving in the Senate.
ok, i respect that even though i disagree.
Words are for figs.
37:
Here is one case I know of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Siegelman
Sometimes i think that the U.S actually needs to see a President McCain (or indeed Palin) just to let the slow learners realise just how utterly fucking BROKEN the U.S actually is.
Seyo @ 46 beat me to it--there's another post at Daily Kos that has the epithet highlighted; Palin even pauses at the interruption, although I seriously doubt whether she actually made out what the person in the crowd was shouting.
(Apologies in advance if this post oversteps the campaign blog link policy...I think I'm staying within the guidelines)
#53: uh.... where have you been for the last eight fckng years??? On the moon?
So Palin is head of a government that steals money from those poor beleaguered oil companies and redistributes the wealth to the undeserving hoi polloi. How is this not Communism?
What polititians say is purely marketing, PR. No connection to reality. They say key words, phrases etc. that their marketing research has shown are likely to be important for a specific audience.
That's why televised debates which are targeted at too large an audience end up being mindless blabber with some repeated phrases ("he does not understand"... "he does not get it") as to leave a lasting impression in the audiences without stirring important issues.
Keeping polititians accountable about what they say is as futile as arguing on the realities of ad copy for toilet paper, captain crunch, budweiser or mercedes.
Sigh.
If socialism means removing the reactionary money grubbing interests under control so be it.
It's about damn time! (waves the red and black flag of anarchism)
Most people screaming socialism would not recognize true socialism if it were to wear all red, and beat them with a red bat branded socialism.
Don't forget kids, if it weren't for those dirty scary Socialists and labor unions you would not have an 8 hour work day, paid vacation, workplace safety, or *gasp* sick time.
Yet another straw man argument from the reactionary right wing. Hopefully those screaming the loudest will be the first willing to give up their Social(ist) Security so I may have a chance at it, when I need it, now that is a dream isn't it?
Did anyone else here "he's a n-----!" about 1/3 of the way through? Wow.
Phikus @40 - I like what you did there.
This actually makes sense-- Socialism, at its heart, assumes that the citizenry should be responsible for their collective wellbeing.
Conservatism runs very much by the Law of Cain-- "I am not my brother's keeper". They simply do not want to be responsible for anyone else on a sustained basis-- charity is feasible as a temporary state, but not as a given.
Socialism to the tune of over a trillion dollars given to bailout Wall Street, banks, and insurers is OK with everyone? The hypocrisy is stunning.
If they want to bailout their friends why not give the money to the people who are losing their homes, then they can give it to Wall Street, the banks and insurers when they pay their mortgages.
Socialism at its heart only shares the wealth of the people's productivity with the people and provides health care without insurance companies skimming a cut off the top first.
Socialism is not a free handout, it is the worker's benefiting from their labor without getting screwed by the top 10% and their friends in government who subsidize their corporations and financial loses.
52:
Thanks, I'd forgotten about that one.
I was surprised at first because I thought the author was another Scott Horton who I've been listening to for a couple years. His own leanings are libertarian but he:could have very well written the article quote that BB posted.
http://www.scotthortonshow.com/
FOETISNAIL@62: Yet another insightful and well-informed comment. =D
Palin's vapid, bald-faced smears do not do justice to this country or the position she aspires to hold. I was very glad to see even the Anchorage Daily News come out endorsing Obama.
so long as they get rid of the socialist army too. There's plenty of good free enterprise private armies for people to hire.