DHS perfects the abusive EULA
A reader writes: "Check out the EULA for the Department of Homeland Security's web page for applying for travel visa waivers!" This is possibly the most obnoxious pop-up I've ever seen. Imagine the federal government making you agree to waive your legal rights in order to read about one of its programs! Welcome to the Electronic System for Travel Authorization Web Site
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"Imagine the federal government making you agree to waive your legal rights in order to read about one of its programs!"
Yes, imagine it.
Then see it.
"I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed."
--Lloyd Daubler
What do you expect? It's the DHS! That's EXACTLY what they were created for. I think it's naive to think that this sort of thing *doesn't* happen if you visit their site. I mean- do you think that these things don't happen if you visit the CIA or FBI websites just because you don't explicitly agree to it? Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning it by inaction. Quite the opposite; I think the DHS should be completely dissolved (I'm not going into all that now though). All I am saying is that at least they are nice enough to as your permission before trampling your rights, because it surely is happening elsewhere without your knowledge.
Not only that, but using Safari on the Mac, you don't even have the option to disagree!
You can either press OK or you can force quit the browser.
I'm not sure, neither being a lawyer nor playing one on TV, but this would seem to contradict their privacy act statement:
https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/privacy.htm
@ #4:
I was just coming here to post that. Now, I'm thinkin' that'd be illegal, right? Pretty much forcing me to agree to something like that? Oh, government, I love how you continually insult me and mock my rights. Keep on truckin'.
Actually, there's a regulation out that says this kind of message is supposed to be the first thing users see when visiting a government site, though DHS gets it wrong in that they're displaying an older message--the newest message contains more legalese. Most government webmasters either ignore it, put a link to it, or place it at the bottom of the main page. DHS is doing a literal interpretation of the reg.
I clicked the little X in the window and got through fine. I didn't agree to anything.
- whereisian
But wait...there's no way to opt out. Isn't the point of EULA that you can decide to not comply and *not* use the software/enter the website/etc? All you can do is click OK.
Essentilly, the DHS is forcing you to accept whatever they want do to and you have no choice about it.
Don't they know grammar? It should say that the DHS computer system and any related equipment ARE subject to monitoring. Oh, wait, I just got an email saying, "all your is are belong to us".
Go listen to any interview with James Bamford about his new book on the NSA. They saw these bits before you did, as did agencies outside the US...
Essentilly, the DHS is forcing you to accept whatever they want do to and you have no choice about it.
6 years down the DHS rabbit-hole and you're finally figuring it out. Welcome.
That EULA is worse than prison sex.
http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/08/06/michael_chertoff_660x.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/Michael_Chertoff,_official_DHS_photo_portrait,_2007.jpg/470px-Michael_Chertoff,_official_DHS_photo_portrait,_2007.jpg
http://www.militaryimages.net/photopost/data/615/Goebbels.jpg
Why does anyone care anymore, the America experiment has failed... rights and freedoms which you people used to point towards as being the basis of all that was good and holy have been removed. The experiment is over... and you people watched it end with your eyes open very much aware what was going on... but it was all so big picture you didn't think that it would ever get so far, and it was more interesting to watch Top Model, American Idol, and the National Sports more than the politicans ripping everything to shreds around you... you saw it coming you let it happen... now that its over LET IT GO.
and that is the test.
That's a standard JavaScript alert(), there's no return value. Which means there is absolutely no way for them to know if you pressed OK (agree) or clicked the close X.
They should have used the confirm() function instead.
Maybe they just don't care if you agree or not, and as a government site providing a public service they probably must let you through, whether you click ok or refuse.
Er, where, exactly, are they suggesting you must waive your legal rights in order to use their web site?
There's nothing onerous about this; they're simply stating that they reserve the right to monitor all traffic between your computer and their web site, and to take appropriate action.
If anything, it sounds like standard best practices for ensuring their web site isn't subject to abuse.
Now, if they were to take benign traffic and report that to, say, the FBI as abuse, then perhaps that would be out of line (much like using the DMCA to fraudulent takedown notices), but nothing of the sort is implied here.
Possibly the most ironic use of the word "Welcome" in a page header.
LOL this entire post can be summarized as:
OMG teh logz!
Most badly worded warning about logging I've ever seen. But it doesn't sound anything more than many (most?) sites do already - capture data about your visit. The bigger the site, the harder this problem, so it's much more likely that all the data is stored in smaller/mid-sized sites. Larger sites probably only capture aggregate data and specific bits of interesting stuff, else they have massive logs to deal with every day.
Every site I've ever been involved with (dozens or more now) log lots of info about every click.
themindfantastic @ 16
Why does anyone care anymore, the America experiment has failed... now that its over LET IT GO.
Hang on. Help is on the way.
This site collects a lot of data as well, but they don't have a direct line to the guys in black.
Is nobody actually worried there's such a thing as an "Electronic System for Travel Authorization"? I'm sure its function is completely innocent right now, but how soon do you have to apply for a permit to visit your out-of-state friends?
This statement doesn't ask you to give up a single right. It spells out what they may do with data the feel was generated in the commission of a fraud.
Like reading you your Maranda Rights it is actually a short self contained civics lesson. This is not that polished but it feels just as welcoming. It is meant to put you on guard.
It needs a "No it's not fucking okay" button too.
This is NOT an abusive EULA.
Rather, it is a notification that the DHS, as operator of the network and remote computer in question, will actually be enforcing its rights to monitor and protect its own systems from criminial activity and other abuse.
This is exactly why there is no "decline" button. This is a notification that the DHS will actually be doing what it is allowed to do.
So are you saying that the DHS doesn't have the rights to monitor its own systems (the ones you are contacting) to detect abuse?
Or that it shouldn't tell you about it?
I'm pretty certain that there isn't anything sinister going on with this.
Abusive EULA? I don't think so... That message boils down to "we check our web logs." Big deal.
Like #28 says, this is not an EULA. You don't need to agree to anything.
What makes it confusing is the unnecessary line at the bottom:
(a) The OK button thus has no meaning (except as a way to close the window), so they should have left the first clause out to avoid confusing this with a EULA.
(b) There are no terms to consent to, just as we don't have any terms to consent to when BoingBoing logs our information. We don't have a choice.
Simple solution: disable Javascript before going to the site, and you'll never be notified of those terms. If you're not made aware of the terms, how can you possibly agree to them?
This is actually a pretty standard security notice. And if I remember right, they don't actually even have to display this notice. It pretty much boils down to "We log what you do on this system, and we inspect those logs. If you do something you're not supposed to, we'll take appropriate actions." They have the right to do those things anyway, so the notice is pretty much just a courtesy. I hope nobody out there thinks that if they cancel the notice, or do something illegal on a government website that doesn't display a notice like this, that they will somehow automagically be exempt from prosecution.
Move along, nothing to see here.
It doesn't surprise me any more.
However, you could just close to popup by clicking the X. You have not clicked yes, you have not agreed, but the you can still use the site.
Looks a lot like the pop up we have here at Boeing on our computers. Of course, it's actually work computers and not our personal ones.
opt out???? LOL... never... they do it no matter if you agree or not... they do it with everything... here they are just telling you about it... it's not a choice it's a disclaimer...
@#15 Takuan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Burns
damn takuan, you teh man
This isn't really an agreement so much as a fair warning. It's actually kind of nice how up front they're being about it. The truly lame part is the sloppy implementation. If you really are asking someone to agree to something you need some kind of command for disagreeing. The 'x' button doesn't really count since—as someone already pointed out—it's not there in all browsers. It's also pretty lame to put that much text into an alert box where it can't be copied and pasted for your own records*. What this is going to is needlessly scare people about what's really not a big deal. I really don't see how this is any more invasive than anything the DHS already does.
* I've never understood why windows doesn't let you copy and paste from a message box, it would save a lot of time troubleshooting.
I'm using Firefox on OSX and just hit escape to bypass the popup.
This looks a lot like what the internal gov't EULA/warnings will say, which is: we monitor our traffic and check our weblogs. my guess is that it was easier to post something similar to that than formulate a whole new eula. not much to see here, move along...
@39: It's perfectly easy to copy text from dialogs in Windows. Depending on the type, you press either Ctrl+C or Ctrl+Shift+Ins when one has the focus. Sometimes you can just copy the text the usual way by selecting it first. But you can almost always copy it some way or other.
Oh, and for the OP: You should check out WinSnap (nagware these days, but version 1.1.10 is still available at ntwind.com/download/old) for taking screenshots of dialogs (and anything else, for that matter).