Alaskan Independence Party sponsored By Iran
The Jed report comments on the Salon article about the Alaskan Independence Party, which Todd Palin joined and Sarah Palin supports:
David Talbot reports on what would have been the crowning achievement of Alaskan Independence Party founder Joe Vogler had he not been first killed in a plastic explosives deal gone bad:LinkVogler's greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska's freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue.The following year, Todd and Sarah Palin attended the AIP convention, and Todd Palin joined the party shortly thereafter.That's right ... Iran. The Islamic dictatorship. The taker of American hostages. The rogue nation that McCain and Palin have excoriated Obama for suggesting we diplomatically engage. That Iran.
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A plastic-explosives deal gone bad? Wow. So he was an ACTUAL DOMESTIC TERRORIST until the day he died.
Doesn't prove Todd Palin knew that, of course, but the ties are at least as valid as the ones they're claiming against Obama, who would have had to actually JOIN the Weather Underground to be this bad.
The Jed report comments on the Salon article about the Alaskan Independence Party, which Todd Palin joined and Sarah Palin supports:
For the love of God, people. I can't stand Sarah Palin. I don't think she has one eleventeenth the qualifications or intelligence to be our vice-prez. But stories like this are no better than the Republican smears: they feed the oblivious-to-truth, blind partisan fury that WILL. TEAR. THE. NATION. APART.
This isn't what Obama wants. This doesn't help his campaign. This doesn't help America. Don't push this bullshit. Don't repeat it. Debate-- structured, educated, open debate-- helps. Stick to it.
Sliming Palin
That's how maverick Palin is
Gob smacked! And I though Obama was the terrorist, hehehe!
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Aaronbeekay@2; Thanks for the "Sliming Palin" URL, which goes to factcheck.org. It says Palin's "husband was a member for years, and she attended at least one party convention, as mayor of the town in which it was held."
Somehow this revelation just makes her seem sexier to me. I guess I'm attracted to treacherous lying stupid women. Is that so unusual?
@2 AARONBEEKAY: This is a lot better than the Republican smears, but you're right that they shouldn't use it. Dem's are less skilled at this kind of attack (they're not vicious enough), and McCain is already doomed. This race isn't McCain's to win, it's Obama's to blow (he is a Democrat, so I still have faith he could pull that off).
See, she wants to uphold the Constitution! Of Alaska.
BTW, do accents get thicker over time? Cause she doesn't have much of one in this clip...
For #5 Floydt,,,
So, you think that a repeating cancer patient who is 72 years old and under the stress of the Presidency WILL NOT die leaving Palin as President? The Palin's are attached at the hip, and Todd is KNOWN to help with governing, so,,,though he MIGHT not know about the Iran connection he was party to Alaska's Independence movement. Also Sarah HAS addressed said group I doubt that she was telling them to pick up their children from hockey practice.
Yes Obama has some not so nice friends,(During the 60's, protesting the Viet Nam war), Ayres has since proven himself a productive citizen. If he had no so proven himself would he not be in a Federal Pen still cooling his heels?
No, #2 this is why lose every time -- because we bend over backwards to be fair. I read the link. Oh, she just HAD to attend because she was mayor? So, if the White Supremacy party books a hotel in her town, she has to show up too? Please. She taped a welcoming message to them. That's TRUE. Her husband WAS a member. I know it's not nice, but if they want to use the terrorist brush, we have to back them off. Do you remember how Hilary got all the Clinton-sex stuff to stop in their first campaign? One simple chilling comment -- "doesn't George Bush have a mistress?" And magically it all stopped ... if Michelle Obama was a member of Rev. Wright's black separatist party, you don't think they'd make a huge issue of it? I've also heard her husband belonged to the John Birch Society. Don't know if that's true, but I do know in CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIAN homes the man's political choices generally do not exist in a vacuum from his wife's. [p.s., I realize Wright doesn't have such a party, just saying, if he did]
Okay, a couple of things:
1) Iran is a peaceful nation. The political side games that they play in other countries are miniscule compared to the international meddling of the US gov't.
2) Joe Vogler's a crackpot, but that has never been a political liability in a place only a crazy person would voluntarily live (Alaska). I'm not endorsing him, I'm just saying when you look at politics as a popularity contest, you end up getting in bed with some very strange people.
3) There's nothing wrong (or racist) with the idea of secession. Forget about the American Civil War as the only example of secession. It wasn't. What do you think the American Revolutionary War was?
4) Sara Palin isn't affiliated with Iranians any more than Obama is to terrorists for his relation to that one guy. She's a political opportunist, which is why she ever joined any organization ever, including the Alaskan Independence Party. There are a myriad of other reasons you can pick to not vote for the Republicans this year.
5) Finally, assume for a second the Republicans did win, do any of you really think Palin would get anywhere near the power and access to the Executive Branch that Cheney has? Cheney is a 40 year political veteran that has been in and out of the White House his entire career. He is GW's mentor and personal friend. Palin is a cutesy front for McCain's geriatric power dreams and little else. Should McCain win, it will be her job to make appearances at ghetto public schools and gov't ribbon cuttings. She will have no real power at all and anything she does will simply be the output of her handlers' guidance. She is as an emoticon, a silly punctuation to any real message delivered by the administration. When you direct your anger and your disbelief at her, you have wasted your energies. She is as irrelevant as she is stupid. Forget about her.
P.S. Obama is going to win, does anyone really think he won't?
Ayres and Obama worked closely together on a couple of boards.
Worked closely did they? Funny, the way I heard it, Senator Obama was on a charity board with Bill Ayers and attended one event at his house. Ur spin - I stopd it.
It's not over until the last ballot is (re)counted.
re: #2 AaronBeekay
"...structured, educated, open debate" gets us what? Utopian fantasies and pandering to the lowest common demographic. Everyone tripping over each other to promise lower taxes and more services. Puhleeese. The only reliable way to judge a candidate is by past actions, and when a VP candidate has demonstrable links to a nutjob secessionist organization, that's pretty damn relevant.
@5 FLOYDT: The Annenbergs and Chicago Mayor Daley were also on that board. Should we be launching investigations into them? This is what drives me crazy about this story. It's about racism and no one even knows it. Everyone who feels uneasy about Obama rationalizes their feelings with stories like this. They need to look their own subliminal racism dead in the eye.
Obama may be a shallow douchebag politician, but he's not a radical or a terrorist (quite the contrary). Or he may be the greatest leader we've had in a long time....or maybe he's both. All I know is that he's lied less than McCain, he's smarter than McCain and he's less likely to start a war than McCain, so he's got my vote. Who cares about anything else?
treason.
Pay attention to her head-shakes "yes" and "no".
"I'm Governor Sarah Palin and I'm delighted..." = Yes
"Your party plays an important role... I've always said that competetion is so good..." = No
"I share your party's vision of upholding the constitution of our great state." = Yes
"My administration remains focused on reigning in government growth..." = No
"...self sufficient state made up of the hardest working..." = little No
then a lot of yeses on the constitution and facts about Fairbanks
then little Nos on "move our state ahead and create positive change"
then yeses on her good wishes for the group, and emphatic yes on "god bless you"...
You know, someone really should use these things as ammunition in a different battle.
While I'm sure bringing this stuff to light was originally meant as salvos in the credibility war between the candidates, this could easily be used to prove a point that actually benefits citizens.
This issue, and the Ayers/Obama issue, are certainly good proof that even decidedly nonviolent people (please don't split hairs on that statement about policy, I'm just talking about whether these people would literally endanger people with their own hands) can have ties to violent individuals who could be called terrorists.
Now, if both the republican and democratic tickets this election year have a member with a tangible (if arguably unimportant) relation to a terrorist... why are average citizens the subject of searches, detention, investigation, and harassment without having ties to terrorists at all?
No matter what the outcome of this election, someone with a connection to a terrorist will be elected to office. So tell me, why the hell am I taking off my shoes, again?
I would send a letter to my senators urging exactly that argument, but Feinstein is sadly a lost cause and I don't think Boxer would really see the point.
Why ds Bng-Bng lv Lkt ndn scssnsts bt ht lskn scssnsts?
@#11- No matter how many votes he gets, Obama is not a shoe in. Diebold and its masters will have a thing or two to say about it first.
Why doesn't #20 see the difference between a Native American tribe that has historical grievances and a bunch of greedy, self-righteous latecomers?
@22 LOL! thanks
I'm sorry, isn't the point not "who is a better friend to terrorist wackos" but the fact that McCain/Palin are gigantic hypocrites for trying to use the Ayers connection against Obama when they in fact have a possibly even more direct connection in their own little closet? Their tactics concern me far more than the actual facts of who had who over for dinner and when.
@ 11
I don't really think I can agree with the idea that Iran is a peaceful nation. While they may not may not meddle in the affairs of other countries as much as the US, it's hard to call Iran peaceful in the face of their persecution of members of the Baha'i faith. For some reason, imprisioning, physically abusing, and on some occasions killing people based solely on their faith doesn't shout peaceful to me.
I feel like I need to invite a terrorist over for dinner just to catch up with these folks.
Perhaps niceing them out of existence in a good strategy.
@25
When I said Iran is a peaceful nation, I mean peaceful towards America and other governments in general. All governments steal, imprison, and abuse their own subjects, it is their nature. In that respect, the US government should not be involved in castigating Iran or roiling for war.
"Iraq helped me build a treehouse. Is that bad?"
OK. I read this thread. And here's what I got:
1) Palin supports and/or supported a terrorist-sponsored secessionist group of which her husband is a member.
2) Obama knows somebody who once supported and/or supports a terrorist group.
Does that cover it, people? Did I miss anything?
Oh, for christ sakes! You don't even need to disenvowel the Palin apologists. They're pretty much incomprehensible on their own.
Look. This address was made this year, 2008. It doesn't matter if she was never a "member."This group's background and polices are and were well established and pretty much put them on the extremist and dangerous fringe. Totally inappropriate for a governor to be addressing their party convention. The only reasonable conclusion is that she has a lot in common with them.
Btw, good catch on the accent. Palin:phony,toxic, vicious,dishonest, uninformed and bad news.
And to all you folk who would have the Democrats continue to bring knives and play dough to gun fights, grow up and get real. This one (the job of electing That One) is important.
Obama is going to win, does anyone really think he won't?
I don't think he will, for these reasons:
1. The Bradley Factor. Racists don't tell the truth to pollsters.
2. Traditional blue collar Dems (white) will stay away from the election in droves. The exceptions are 75-year-old retired communist longshoremen and Clyde, the laid-off Flint autoworker, who said this morning at the Nite Owl Coney Island, "Fuck it! I'm gonna vote for the nigger."
3. Dems will again adroitly snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. They earlier demonstrated this uncanny ability by letting college students and Red State pariahs choose Kid Stardust over Lady Macbeth, whose black heart is nonetheless in the right place. (Mrs. Blue Collar in the waitress apron identifies with her because they have cheating husbands in common.)
4. The Repubs will "reveal" Obama's mistress. (Every successful male politician over 45 has, or recently had, a mistress — unless he's got a new 28-year-old trophy wife, or unless he's a wide-stance Republican.) And she'll be white.
5. Diebold.
6. I've never backed a winner yet.
#31: huh..huh..........you said "fuck"
As ugly as it gets, as ugly as it will remain, and as ever-uglier it ever shall seem, what i see is the electorate is ready to oust the RNC. We could hear almost anything and still vote Dem just to kick the liars out. I'm calling an electoral victory unable to be altered either by vote fraud or lawsuits. This round goes blue.
to Xopher...Todd Palin had to have known the ideals and agenda of Vogler. Todd Palin joined in 1994, after Vogler died, and was a member for 7 years. So of course he would have known. And its funny how the blind conservative hypocrites still defend this by saying, "Well Ayers actually put his ideals into action, while Vogler just spoke about it." That's bs. For one, Vogler was sponsored by Iran. Obviously, the Iranian gov't saw something so intriguing about this group that they'd give up some money to keep it going. And secondly, yes Ayers was responsible for some bombings in the 60's. Obama was 8 years old, and the only reason he has any associations with Ayers is because of his involvement in certain issues in Chicago. Such as education reform, homelessness, unemployment, etc. Think about it though, Obama is all for community improvement. Would it have been better for him to say, "No I'm not going to help this community because Ayers is on it." Repubs make me sick.
I'm sorry I cant cite sources right now (I really should go look on Google Scholar), but apparently solid academic work indicates that the Bradley effect has largely disappeared since the mid to late 90's. We can only hope.
Repubs make me sick.
Sociopaths and other conscience-free individuals in general, but yes, Rethuglicans are a subset thereof. I hate them. I want their party driven out of American politics forever.
Also, I'd like a pony.
@ #11 posted by amgunn , October 9, 2008 11:33 AM
"5) Finally, assume for a second the Republicans did win, do any of you really think Palin would get anywhere near the power and access to the Executive Branch that Cheney has?..."
... and after he has that heart attack on the White House lawn?
"P.S. Obama is going to win, does anyone really think he won't?"
Well, we kind of thought that last time. I still remember the absolute sense of disbelief in the UK media, on hearing the results - "Oh my God, they elected him AGAIN???!!"
Except they didn't. And THAT could happen again.
@ 27
Ok, I see your point.