American Fascist Writer Westbrook Pegler
“Republican vice-presidential nominee Sarah Palin quoted an unidentified “writer” who extolled the virtues of small-town America: “We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity.” (9/3/08) The unidentified writer was Westbrook Pegler (1894-1969), the ultraconservative newspaper columnist whose widely syndicated columns (at its peak, 200 newspapers and 12 million readers) targeted the New Deal establishment, labor leaders, intellectuals, homosexuals, Jews, and poets.”More on Pegler at TNR, here's Wikipedia. Here are a few other quotes Palin didn't use:I disagree with him fully. Except for the poets. Fucking poets.
Jews, he said, could not be the victims of persecution because persecution “connotes injustice…They are, instead, enduring retaliation, or punishment.” (D. Levitas, The Terrorist Next Door: The Militia Movement and the Radical Right, Macmillan, 2002, p. 71.)Update: Blogger and Boing Boing reader Karen says, "Robert Kennedy Jr. was rightfully outraged about this too. I blogged about it here."He advanced the theory that American Jews of Eastern European descent were “instinctively sympathetic to Communism, however outwardly respectable they appeared.” (The New York Times, Obituary: “Free-Swinging Critic,” June 25, 1969, p. 43).
He had a habit of calling Jews “geese” because they, in his words, hiss when they talk, gulp down everything before them, and foul everything in their wake. (Diane McWhorter, “Revisiting the controversial career of Westbrook Pegler,” Slate, March 4 2004).
(...)In 1963, less than 3 months after Martin Luther King Jr., delivered his famous “I Have a Dream Speech,” he wrote in a column, “[It is] clearly the bounden duty of all intelligent Americans to proclaim and practice bigotry.” (D. Levitas, The Terrorist Next Door: The Militia Movement and the Radical Right, Macmillan, 2002, p. 71)
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In 1965, Pegler also made the comment about Bobby Kennedy, hping that "some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow flies."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/governor-palins-reading-l_b_126478.html
So are we seriously supposed to believe that an American fascist is the only person in the history of writing to extol the virtues of small-town living?
There are lots of good reasons to criticize Palin, but this one seems to be on the level of criticizing Eisenhower for building the interstate highway system because Hitler implemented the idea first.
You're not paying attention, Drinian: she quoted him. She didn't say something like what he said. Big difference.
Pegler sounds like a real pig, to be sure, but I think it's a stretch to link Palin's beliefs to his simply because a speechwriter inserted a pithy Pegler quote about small towns into the acceptance speech she delivered at the convention. This sort of ideological purity-by-association testing strikes me as a genuinely unfortunate trend on both the left and the right (cf. Jeremiah Wright).
It just seems like such ludicrously reductive thinking . . ."if someone has ever done or said something we disapprove of, then everything positive (or even neutral) they've ever said or done is irrelevant, and anyone who doesn't dissociate him or herself from the evildoer completely is just as bad as they are." Aren't we a little more nuanced than that around here?
Umm, Drinian, this is why Palin should not have been quote mining. Basically this just indicates that she did not bother to look up the individual she was sourcing.
It's just one more example of blatant intellectual dishonesty.
Drinian, she quoted him. Sara Palin is also associated with the Alaska Indepenence Party and with the ultra right wing John Birch society. Both fascist in nature and filled with hate. Her partner John McCain wants to do for healthcare what he did for housing, utterly destroy it.
John McCain, if elected, will turn America into a full blown dictatorship.
Us Jews have an extra bone in our hands. It helps us type anti-Palin posts twice as fast.
First?
of many no doubt, she chose the fascist.
We all know sarah palin probably doesn't read - so it must have been a neo-con speechwriter, which wouldn't be surprising.
Okay, so she quoted a scary lunatic.
While I'm no fan of the woman it feels a little underhanded to try and lump her in with such a person because she quoted him.
I've quoted some pretty squicky communists, before... did I contract communism by quoting them? Is it terminal?
How many people have quoted Charles Manson? Did they all go on to become murderers?
Let me just say that I'm astounded how many Palin defenders have descended on this site, and I am equally astounded at anyone who actually thinks it's ok to quote somebody horrible if "it is a good quote".
Whether it was Palin or her speechwriter who dug up that quote, the person who did is completely incompetent. If you've ever written an academic paper, then you KNOW why.
Or at least I hope you do.
@drinian
Sure, lot's of people have said great things about small towns. Palin chose to use the specific words this jerk, which is significant, becasue there are all those other people she could have quoted.
This woman quotes an anti-semite and a bigot.
Let me repeat:
THIS WOMAN QUOTES AN ANTI-SEMITE AND A BIGOT,
and she gets defended?
I know an astro-turf campaign when I see one.
This is a woman who tried to ban books in her local library. That leads me to suspect that she's perfectly capable of analysing written words and finding them objectionable.
Strange in the extreme that her critical faculties deserted her in this case.
The reason she "couldn't" answer Couric's question about newspapers and magazines, wasn't that she was an airhead who couldn't remember. She was purposely avoiding answering the question, she was hiding something. Her views are too extreme for Americans (including conservatives), so the campaign clamped down.
http://www.jedreport.com/2008/09/sarah-palins-john-birch-societ.html
no,Lunch, not here
http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html
Just FYI, the GOP VP acceptance speech was written before Palin was even selected.
"An initial version of the address, which speechwriter Matthew Scully started crafting a week ago for an unnamed male vice presidential pick"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/03/AR2008090301176.html
So it's hard to put this on Palin, when there's a good chance that the GOP was going to quote a fascist no matter what.
it feels a little underhanded to try and lump her in with such a person because she quoted him.
What's the logic here?
If that were really all there was to Palin it wouldn't be a big deal. But there is a clear pattern of association with ultra right wing groups on her part. Sara Palin is more than just an idiot, she's associated herself with right wing hate groups.
If I quoted Hitler on any topic at all, would you give me a pass, or would you seriously question both my judgment and my ideology?
And, newsflash: just because a speechwriter wrote the speech doesn't mean she is not responsible for every single word. We are not voting for speechwriters.
They sure as hell didn't go on to become the Vice President. (With the possible exception of Cheney?)
The possibilities:
1: She knows the source she quoted from, and agrees with him, ideologically.
2: She knows the source she quoted from, and disagrees with him, ideologically (this seems improbable)
3: She knows the source she quoted from, and while disagreeing with him on many points, recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and did not think this connection would be discovered (SHADES OF BIDEN'S "PLAGIARISING" SCANDAL - and improbable)
4: She knows the source she quoted from, and while disagreeing with him on many points, recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and /did/ think this connection would be discovered (thereby serving to increase discussion of Sarah Palin, while providing an opportunity to disclaim fascist sympathies implicitly by distancing herself from the original author.)
5: She does not know the source she quoted from, yet agrees with him, ideologically. (A good argument could be made for this, citing that she had speechwriters, was coached, and those coaching her are the GOP's elite)
6: She does not the source she quoted from, and she disagrees with him, ideologically (benefit of the doubt)
7: She does not know the source she quoted from, and while disagreeing with him on many points, her speechwriters recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and did not think this connection would be discovered. (Incompetent speechwriters / coaches)
8: She does not know the source she quoted from, and while her speechwriters / coaches disagree with his other views, recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and /did/ think this connection would be discovered (thereby serving to increase discussion of Sarah Palin, while providing an opportunity to disclaim fascist sympathies implicitly by distancing herself from the original author. - benefit of the doubt, Karl Rove)
9: She does not know the source she quoted from, but her speechwriters / coaches agree with his other views, recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and /did/ think this connection would be discovered (thereby serving to increase discussion of Sarah Palin, while providing an opportunity to disclaim fascist sympathies implicitly by distancing herself from the original author. - conspiracy theory, Karl Rove)
10: She /does/ know the source she quoted from, AND agrees with his other views, AND recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and /did/ think this connection would be discovered (thereby serving to increase discussion of Sarah Palin, while providing an opportunity to disclaim fascist sympathies implicitly by distancing herself from the original author. - conspiracy theory, I'm not willing to say she's this crafty or educated)
11: She does not know the source she quoted from, but agrees with his other views, but doesn't know this because she didn't write the speech / didn't source the quote herself, but her speechwriters / coaches agree with his other views, recognised a good quote that would serve her well - and /did/ think this connection would be discovered (thereby serving to increase discussion of Sarah Palin, while providing an opportunity to disclaim fascist sympathies implicitly by distancing herself from the original author. - Joel's Army / Sarah Palin is a Dominionist working with NeoCons Theory)
My mathematics tells me that there is at least one possibility of combinations that I may have overlooked.
Palin Pandered to Wasilla's Wackiest Wingnuts
"Yesterday morning I interviewed John Stein, the former Wasilla mayor who was defeated by Palin in 1996 by using "a quiet campaign by some Palin supporters raising emotional issues like abortion and gun control, which had no apparent tie to municipal politics" -- and as Phil Munger notes, a whisper campaign that Stein was secretly Jewish (Stein is a Lutheran)."
"According to Stein, Palin's main base of support in that election (and subsequent Wasilla campaigns) was derived from her fellow congregants at Wasilla Bible Church and the larger evangelical Christian community. But it also included some of the Mat-Su Valley's biggest far-right nutcases -- to the extent that she even attempted to reciprocate by appointing one of them to the city's planning commission."
"The connection revolves mostly around three men known to have far-right leanings in the community: a builder named Steven Stoll, a computer repairman named Mark Chryson, and a third man named Mike Christ. All three subscribed to a bellicose, "Patriot" movement brand of politics -- far-right libertarianism with a John Birch streak."
"According to Stein, Steven Stoll -- whose local nickname, according to Phil Munger, is "Black Helicopter Steve" -- was involved in militia organizing in Wasilla the 1990s, and subscribed to most of the movement's paranoid conspiracy theories: "The rumor was that he had wrapped his guns in plastic and buried them in his yard so he could get them after the New World Order took over.""
We have so lowered our expectations of our national leaders (she's not running for dogcatcher here) that we no longer hold them accountable even for the words that come out of their mouths.
Blame the speechwriter! She didn't mean it! She didn't know what she was saying! She's clueless and just mouths whatever anyone hands her! Elect her to the 2nd most powerful position in the nation!
If you can't source the quote, don't use the quote. But I'll take the charitable view on this and say she (or her scriptwriter) was merely lazy. Fine.
But I won't take the charitable view on the meaning of the quote itself. You grow good people in small towns? Well, congratulations, because you know where good people grow? Everywhere! They grow all over this country, in small towns and big cities. Hell, they grow all over this world. You do not have a monopoly on honesty, sincerity, and dignity. I've had enough of this whole small town exceptionalism. Small towns have enough going for them without laying claim to all that is pure and virtuous in the American people.
Well said #23.
Let me just say that I'm astounded how many Palin defenders have descended on this site, and I am equally astounded at anyone who actually thinks it's ok to quote somebody horrible if "it is a good quote".
You're kidding right? A few people in a thread saying, "Hm, this attack might be a little over the top," is hardly "many Palin defenders" descending on the site. For a lot of people I don't think it's the particular political slant that's surprising, it's just the vehemence and the volume of it that is unfamiliar. There have always been political posts on BB, but it really feels like there have been more Sarah Palin-related posts in the last month than all other Presidential election-related posts combined.
Also (to quote Sarah P.), given your position on purity in quotations, would you say that we can never again listen to Wagner, read anything by Rudyard Kipling, or otherwise imply our "endorsement" of anyone who holds and expresses beliefs we find repugnant? I doubt there were more than a handful of people in the country who even remembered who Pegler was before this quote was dropped into the speech, and the idea that its insertion was some sort of winking high sign to fellow fascist travelers seems like conspiracy theory-level thinking to me.
This kind of disclaimer always annoys me when someone else writes it, but the black and white thinking that informs not only this post but the comment I'm responding to still makes me feel like it's necessary. I define myself as a liberal, I am 100% certain that I'll be voting for Obama/Biden in November, and I even agree that Palin may be the weakest and worst-informed national-level candidate we've ever seen. I just get annoyed when people base their attacks on things that seem to me to be emotional or irrational, rather than the real issues and the facts.
"If you can't source the quote, don't use the quote."
You think Andy Griffith would have gotten as much poon tang as he did if he sourced every one of his folksy small town sayings?
Fuck that! The guy was a god damned sexual tyranasaurus!!! Fucking liberal queers!
"Mike Mansfield, a former leader of the Senate, said to me one day -- he -- I made a criticism of Jesse Helms. He said, "What would you do if I told you Jesse Helms and Dot Helms had adopted a child who had braces and was in real need?" I said, "I'd feel like a jerk."
He said, "Joe, understand one thing. Everyone's sent here for a reason, because there's something in them that their folks like. Don't question their motive."
I have never since that moment in my first year questioned the motive of another member of the Congress or Senate with whom I've disagreed. I've questioned their judgment.
I think that's why I have the respect I have and have been able to work as well as I've been able to have worked in the United States Senate. That's the fundamental change Barack Obama and I will be bring to this party, not questioning other people's motives."- Joe Biden
The speech writer in question made an error in judgement, probably in haste to find a quote that fit without knowing the full extent of the context. To say that the motive behind this pick was to justify the thoughts and ideas of Westbrook Pegler is an unfair attack. This is the same insane logic that leads people to say Obama believes the same things as Bill Ayers because he served on a board with him once.
Oi vey! This oddly enough reminds me of certain Rush Limbaugh disciples I've seen who froth at the mouth every time they make some imaginary link between someone they don't like and say... Hitler.
If she quoted MLK all the time what would you think? Nothing would change I'm sure, so the point is moot.
Its silly to waste energy not liking her as a person, its the policies that matter, both her's and Obama's.
If I quoted Hitler on any topic at all, would you give me a pass, or would you seriously question both my judgment and my ideology?
I'm not sure it's technically possible to Godwin a thread that has "fascist" right there in the post title, but good job all the same! Clearly a newspaper columnist who held some repugnant views is exactly the same thing as Hitler.
Let Palin use as many of these quotes as she like (Please oh please oh please), and For DOG's sake national news pick up on this!!!
Just because it was a good quote does not mean you can use it, None! (NONE NEVER!!!) of Dr. Mengele's work has ever been used. No Good ever comes from evil!!!
Those that pity/support/dandle/except/ignore such quotes from a VP are cretins. No ifs ands or butts.
Again: she is responsible for every word that comes out of her mouth. It has nothing to do with emotional responses. It shows carelessness, lack of judgment, and a willingness to be manipulated.
I'm also sick to death of being told I'm not a real American because I don't live in a small town.
Anyone who believes that is either shockingly ignorant or a bigot, or both. It's divisive and harkens back to the Nazi's Kultur Krieg (Culture War), if you've ever wondered about the conservatives' source for that little phrase.
Wow, that's telling. I know for a fact that I agree with every opinion of every book I've ever read, so she must, too. I've never quoted anyone I didn't totally agree with on every point because that would just be _nuts_
@#22
I'm assuming you're commenting on what I wrote.
I think Palin is clueless. I think the speechwriter could've put a page from the New Delhi yellowpages in front of her and she would've read it with the same 'youbetcha' fervor. That's not saying that I think she should be absolved from being responsible for what comes out of her mouth, although I admit what I wrote might suggest that.
My larger point, I guess, is that using Pegler's words isn't so much revealing of Palin, but rather of the GOP in general, and its drive to mainstream extremist views. I have little doubt that the speechwriter knew exactly where that quote was from, probably pulled from his own personal collection of Pegler essays. It's a dogwhistle intended for ultracons, and illustrative of what passes for reasonable thought in the GOP as a whole, not just Palin.
@Simplyaaron
"Its silly to waste energy not liking her as a person, its the policies that matter, both her's and Obama's."
Really? So it would be okay to elect Hulk Hogan to the office of the president as long as we agreed with his policies?
Hell who needs to elect people? Let's just elect policies.
@20 bardfinn
My mathematics tells me that there is at least one possibility of combinations that I may have overlooked.
This is why geeks should not attempt to reason about politics. It's the kind of list you'd expect from Maurice Moss (IT Crowd). Sara Palin, or her writers, put that quote in her speech in order to signal to the far right hate groups. Just as she sent a similar signal when she posed with the John Birch article in the photo I linked to above.
Sara Palin has consistently aligned herself with ultra right wing hate groups.
Not being a fan of Sarah P., and having a LOT of stuff to prove she is ... well, whatever she is ... I think that in fact it's no proof at all she quoted a fascist. I mean, quoting James D. Watson on DNA makes me also a believer on his infamous "I'm inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" quote?
Clearly a newspaper columnist who held some repugnant views is exactly the same thing as Hitler.
I never equated the two. That's your interpretation.
My point is valid and you know it. I could have used a less well-known fascist, but then I'd run the risk of people not recognizing the name. Sheesh.
it really feels like there have been more Sarah Palin-related posts in the last month than all other Presidential election-related posts combined.
Do you have any idea how many anti-Palin cracks I have zapped in non-political threads? She has captured the attention of the world, boy howdy. But seriously, would this furor have happened if McCain had chosen Elizabeth Dole? No. She would have been criticized, but she would not have been ridiculed. McCain chose a cartoon character as a running mate and is now paying the price.
I could come up with a long list of nice things that despicable people have said--quotes with which I would agree. But I'd be an idiot to go around reciting these quotes, and not know how it would taint people's perception of me.
"Do you have any idea how many anti-Palin cracks I have zapped in non-political threads?"
More than 942, less than 15,633?
"Clearly a newspaper columnist who held some repugnant views is exactly the same thing as Hitler."
It's called arguing ad absurdam.
Per policy vs. personality: I also hate the fact that people vote because "I like him," or worse, "I like his wife." It's shallow and lazy.
Unless personality affects how the person will do the job (an annoying personality does not make for a good diplomat), I think it's judgment and character that counts, not personality. A fine disticntion, I know, but important.
Can we get back to more substance and less hissing, please?
@Enormo
Really? So it would be okay to elect Hulk Hogan to the office of the president as long as we agreed with his policies?
Wow, yeah! That's exactly what I think.
I would totally vote Hulk Hogan over Obama if he had better policies, cuz I'm just that type of thoughtless moron!
What I was arguing for was intelligent debate on policy, leaving much simpler issues to the wayside, obviously it was missed though.
Drinian, poster #2 made an excellent example, one which I will surely use as my own at dinner arguments tonight.
As much as I would love to jump all over this, it's relatively pointless. She probably googled "Small town quotes" and got this. She sould have had an intern do some follow up, but you can't be on every ball at once.
The media always jump on candidates for this kind of thing. But it's pointless.
For instance: No matter how many times it is pointed out that the founding fathers were elite intellectuals, it'll never stop conservatives from comparing themselves to them.
@ 25: Actually, I think there is a pretty clear difference between quoting somebody despicable in a political speech, and "listening to Wagner or reading something by Rudyard Kipling".
It's the difference between being able to appreciate the art of a Kipling or a Wagner despite their flaws, and putting yourself in the intellectual vicinity of the person you've quoted in your speech by USING THAT PERSON'S WORDS to make your point.
I don't know if it would help to describe this by using a situation from my profession. As an architect, I can say, "Hmm, Albert Speer had a really interesting and original theory when he talked about the fact that buildings ought to be worth something as ruins, thousands of years from now. That gives me a lot of insight on the Fascist view of history, and it's fascinating in a macabre way."
It would be something else altogether for me to decide I'm going to design a building according to those principles - that would be wedding myself intellectually to ideas that I abhor.
The second thing is what I think Palin has done here. And no I do not care if it was her or her speech writer.
Clearly a newspaper columnist who held some repugnant views is exactly the same thing as Hitler.
In the case of Westbrook Pegler, yes it is. Pegler didn't just hold some slightly repugnant views. He was a vicious racist, anti-semite and a fascist. He could have easily stepped into Hitlers shoes had the need arose and not felt the slightest discomfort.
Sara Palin deliberately placed that quote in order to signal to the far right. It's kind of a wink and a nod sayin' "Hey buddy, we're with ya." This behavior is consistent with Sara Palin's past behavior.
@#14:
because her beliefs are too extreme, but also to lower the bar. She sounded like an idiot with Couric, in the debate last night she successfully aped the McCain/Palin buzzphrases over and over. Therefore, huge success! Palin wins because she didn't go "uh..." and drool all over herself.
Talk about lowering the bar... look at who we are considering for the second highest elected position in the land. "President Palin." Can there be a more frightening thought other than green men invading the planet and vaporizing all life?
this is a dark year for american politics. A very dark year.
@ 27: Thank you for that great quote from Biden - it is something we should all be keeping in mind in these discussions.
That said, I personally think that this instance of quote mining is simply a ridiculous political misstep. It shows that Palin and her people do not know what they are doing. They're careless and don't know how to be rigorous about these kinds of problems.
In essence, I would not trust people who display the gross incompetence to quote a Fascist when they probably could have gotten a perfectly good Thoreau or Jefferson quotation for her speech.
Maybe that is too wonky, but dammit, I'm wonky.
So it would be okay to elect Hulk Hogan to the office of the president as long as we agreed with his policies?
How would that differ from Ronald Reagan or Jesse Ventura? There are lots of bad ex-entertainers in politics.
How would that differ from Ronald Reagan or Jesse Ventura? There are lots of bad ex-entertainers in politics.
Well, if you count in the tragedy that is the Governator, that makes only one in three ex-actors worth voting for. Not a very good ratio if you ask me, Hogan loses my vote.
I hold policies and platforms in far higher regard than I do the personal views of the office-holders. I ask only that they be capable of morality, reasoning, empathy, compassion, and judgement - in and of themselves - and be resistant to corruption.
The platforms and policies they implement will have long-reaching consequences, long after they have retired and indeed, long after they and their grandchildren and grandchildren's grandchildren are passed on.
Jews are naturally Communist? How does that even make any fracking sense? I thought Jews were the ones who controlled all the banks and wanted to rob us blind with their extreme capitalism.
I guess ultra-conservatives made no pretense at internal consistency, even back then.
Yes, you've got me there Antinous. He's the greenest Governator that California's ever had, I just hate to admit it.
You'll hear a different story from my friends in nursing and government though.
if you count in the tragedy that is the Governator
I forgot Arnold. He doesn't bother me. He's pretty moderate and has done some positive things.
Noen: I am inclined to agree with you - I think it's quite likely that it is in fact a dog-whistle to the fascists.
I just wanted to elaborate all the possibilities - and perform some probability mathematics.
Thanks to Grimc @16, we now know that her speech was written for her, by a professional GOP speech-writer, and was supervised by Rick Davis.
That eliminates all of the "she sourced the quote herself" possibilities, leaving us with six, and four of those are highly likely, two highly unlikely, giving us a better-than-sixty per-cent chance that the quote was sourced and was used as a dog-whistle.
Of course, the real issue here is that the reporter has a blatant anti-Bard bias.
THE HUMANITY! THE (red) HERRING!
*coughcoughcough*
I'm sorry, but I just can't be convinced that the "gaff" is the result of incompetence. Call me cynical.
I agree with Noen re: the code that conservatives use (and no, I don't doubt that liberals have their versions, too). It's a discreet signal of support to American proto-fascists like the John Birch Society. Nationalism taken to extremes is a key part of fascism, after all.
Other code words and phrases:
redistribution of wealth = communism
socialized medicine = communism
does not support the troops = unpatriotic, possibly a terrorist
soccer mom = "real" American, not blacks, Jews, gays, or atheists
traditional = Protestant Christian
Ventura/Hogan 2012 FTW!!!!
Unfortunately, adopted son non-sequitur aside, Jesse Helms' motives deserved to be questioned along with his judgement.
And of course you should vote for Hulk Hogan if you actually support his platform, believe that he is capable of implementing and and that his election is the best way to promote the adoption of that platform by government. That is, after all, why we have a democracy. Personally, though, I doubt that he would be my choice.
“We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity.”
OK, let's say she is clueless, agreed.
However it ended up coming out of her mouth, someone is using code to say, look out for them smarty pants from the big city back east, they are dishonest, insincere, undignified, intellectuals who think you are stupid.
Other code words / phrases I've seen used:
"Law and Order" = Racist.
"Hard on Drugs" = Racist.
"Soft on Crime" = non-racist.
"Soft on Drugs" = non-racist.
and, once, "Healthy Citizens" = anti-homosexual.
The Spin. Oh, The Spin.
Look on the bright side. . . if McCain/Palin wins in Nov. at least they'll make the trains run on time.
But seriously. . . was that an actual quote, or just luck (it is vague enough that she or her speechwriter could have come up with those exact words by chance)-- in other words, did she say in her speech "If I may quote a great American writer..."?
Not that I am looking to give Palin a pass, but like Diamanda Galas said "you must be sure of the Devil."
(I guess I need to find the transcript online somewhere and check).
We Americans obviously prefer folksy, plain-spoken types like George W, Reagan and Palin.
Not "liberal" intellectuals like Dukakis or Obama.
Bill_C did good cuz he was Southern and down-played that whole Rhodes Scholar thing.
Oh, sure guys, I bet her speechwriters put it in as a shout-out to right-wing hate groups. Just like they put a giant picture of Walter Reed Middle School behind John McCain.
It's already been established that their campaign likes to dump google results directly into campaign materials without checking the source.
Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Besides, it's enough of a criticism to say that they dump raw google results directly into public materials; that already makes them look like idiots; you don't have to go the extra yard and godwin yourself by saying they're secretly pursuing the Klan vote.
I'll pay you guys money to post ONE critical story about Obama. McCain/Palin, they are not going to win. It's over for them. So attacking them is a red herring.
I was thinking maybe oh something on that off the script comment Obama made in Colorado Springs on July 2, an improvised little tune that went a little something like "we need a civilian national security force as large and as well funded as the military," a comment made in the context of fighting "terrorism."
No curiousity about that at all? Not even a little?
I wonder if THESE guys would make good recruits for that "civilian security force"???
Having just moved back to a large metro area from a less that 13,000 town, they've got this all wrong.
They are growing thieving meth freaks in the small towns with lying, stealing, and toothlessness.
Who does she think she is kidding? Or more apt, who do they think they are kidding?
I'll pay you guys money to post ONE critical story about Obama.
Will you be paying by check or credit card? Do a little research.
BardFinn 61: "Law and Order" = Racist.
Indeed, that was such a widely-used code in the 1960s (my childhood) that I didn't watch the show of the same name for years after it came on...some unconscious part of me assumed it would be racist diatribes. Of course, it was nothing of the kind, but I wasn't aware of that process; I just knew I didn't want to watch a show with that title.
As for the matter at hand: so, it was a dogwhistle by the speechwriter rather than by the Hockey Mom Handpuppet herself. So what? No one believes she's calling the shots on her own campaign anyway. The Rethuglicans are now in the process of dropping the crypto part of their cryptofascism. I think a McCain victory will lead to an America that makes modern Russia look free and enlightened...and a Palin presidency (after McCain dies of whatever's making him so sick these days) will lead to an America that looks like The Handmaid's Tale.
Ill Lich 62: Look on the bright side. . . if McCain/Palin wins in Nov. at least they'll make the trains run on time.
Mussolini didn't actually make the trains run on time. He just shot anyone who complained that they were late. I don't doubt we'll have a similar situation in America should the unthinkable happen...we already have people saying that if you oppose the Iraq war you're a traitor.
And here's the text right around that quote:
It's not blatant, certainly, but "small town people" is political code for "nice white people" in this election cycle, if not before.DMDuncan @65, would you rather pay money for "Obama's support for the FISA 'compromise'", which ran on June 24th, or "New Obama poster: Illegal Wiretaps We Can Believe In" from July 15th? Or perhaps or July 28th's "Radley Balko: A Few Questions for Barack Obama" is more your style.
Dang. As a poet, I'll just go cry in the bathroom of the Quality Inn in Tucumcari.
I gather that the intent is establishing a precedent of repeated affiliation with right wing extremists...
I was just saying: hey, don't take a simple quotation at more than face value.
Now, if she was diving in and quoting the more hateful stuff I'd be reaching for a pitchfork and torch like anyone else.
As is, this is just a very tiny little piece in the puzzle of this woman's misguided nature.
Oh, sure guys, I bet her speechwriters put it in as a shout-out to right-wing hate groups. Just like they put a giant picture of Walter Reed Middle School behind John McCain.
There's a massive difference between the attention and care put into a video montage (probably put together by someone not versed in the architecture of federal buildings) that's merely decoration and that put into the acceptance speech of a major political party's VP candidate (definitely written by a fairly senior speechwriter for whom the history of political writing is lifeblood).
Incompetence in both cases? Possible. Likely? Nope.
Diamanda Galas, eh.
"Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Nope, sorry, that's the "aw, shucks, we is just good ole' boys who ain't good at book larnin'" smokescreen.
Political speeches on this level are extremely closely crafted products of polls, focus groups, oppo research, and PR savvy.
If you think that there is ONE word in any of these canned speeches, Democratic or Republican, that is unpremeditated, then I fear you are naive. And that's coming from someone who dislikes knee-jerk paranoia and cynicism.
More code:
Urban voters = blacks
Left wing intellectuals = Jews
Liberal media = free press
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DMDUNCAN: Why not make a contribution to the EFF as part of your losing bet?
AIRPILLO: When simple facts are ignored, the big picture will always be an abstract with a puzzling name.
XOPHER: I'm already worried enough for my kids, thanks.
Does that mean that I'm not getting a check?
Yes to Noen and Nick D, it is code speak to the base. But what is it, stupidity or more likely arrogance, that lets them ignore how easy it is for anyone to Google that string?
@80: Arrogance, I'd say.
@78: stop trying to obscure the arguments with FACTS! He said it, and so it is true. That's how reality is made here in America.
Like when Palin and McCain say they are mavericks who will fight big business to protect the little guy.
Now, I personally wouldn't turn to Republicans(!) to regulate business, but then I'm a biased, citified inter-letchwal.
They SAY they're mavericks, so it must be true.
Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you.
-- Londo Mollari
“We grow good people in our small towns, with honesty and sincerity and dignity.”
the very first image that occurred to me was the downunders of A Boy and His Dog. Honestly.
I have no problem with being proud of who or what you are. The problem is that conservatives can't like themselves without hating everyone else (see the disgusting displays of sneering arrogance at the last Republican National Convention).
I love the fact that a Bab5 quote has found a righteous place in American national political discussion.
Antoninus, you found the book and read it quickly!
@81: So political science, if it is a a science of anything, is a science of deception, a science of manipulating people, of managing the herd. You can think of politics, the science of deception, as human agriculture. I find it remarkable that we're treating this fascism idea as remarkable when this country was built, literally, on a murdered way of life.
Is Barack Obama going to reaffirm the treaties the US Government signed with the various Indian tribes which the US Government illegally broke?
Hell no.
That's because when you replace one worn out part in our political machine you have to replace it with a part that meets the specs. The machine changes the part, the part doesn't change the machine, and that's why, regardless of what any candidate says before he takes office, they pretty much all look the same afterwards.
I'm confused. Who's Antoninus? Is someone channelling a Roman emperor?
Antoninus, you found the book and read it quickly!
@81: So political science, if it is a a science of anything, is a science of deception, a science of manipulating people, of managing the herd. You can think of politics, the science of deception, as human agriculture. I find it remarkable that we're treating this fascism idea as remarkable when this country was built, literally, on a murdered way of life.
Is Barack Obama going to reaffirm the treaties the US Government signed with the various Indian tribes which the US Government illegally broke?
Hell no.
That's because when you replace one worn out part in our political machine you have to replace it with a part that meets the specs. The machine changes the part, the part doesn't change the machine, and that's why, regardless of what any candidate says before he takes office, they pretty much all look the same afterwards.
Oh I just do that with everyone's name, Nickoninus.
It is true that Antoninus deified my deifier.
Obviously, the machine is broken. Equally obviously, of the two major political parties, the Democratic Party is the better bet if you want change. A slim hope, but then politics is about working with reality, grim as it is.
Another strategy would be to vote Republican, in the hopes that another Great Depression might finally force the American people to wake the hell up and smell the exploitation they live under.
To Good Guys Dead
They sucked us in;
King and country,
Christ Almighty
And the rest.
Patriotism,
Democracy,
Honor-
Words and phrases
They either bitched or killed us.
"Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.
GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori."
USA! USA!
(Well, it does rhyme, sorta.)
Nick, I completely disagree. I think the two party system is a good cop/bad cop game designed to distract the victim (voter) from seeing that he is being marched by both parties straight toward a cell.
That's why people like Nader, Kucinich, and Ron Paul are not electable options. They are out of spec. They are lousy replacement parts.
And that's why you have Obama and McCain both supporting a bailout plan that could have funded 7 Apollo moon mission programs. And that is also why America is going to be at war for the foreseeable future even with Obama in the White House.
Furthermore, people on the left seem to think that dictatorship is a danger that comes only from the right. That's totally absurd. While you have the binoculars focused on the right, you may feel a sudden firm tap on the shoulder coming from the left.
#69 XOPHER
Interesting that she is indeed citing a writer (though unnamed) when she says that quote, and at the same time is comparing herself to Harry Truman-- a weird juxtaposition (both an appeal to the other party for support, and perhaps an admission of her ambition for the presidency). Maybe she knew where the quote came from, maybe not, but I imagine whoever wrote that speech knew where the quote came from, so it sure looks like something sinister is going on here. I note that, like Bush before him, McCain admitted recently that he would ideally love to be a dictator.
For the Palin defender's here-- if you consider how freaked out the GOP gets regarding Ahmadinejad's anti-Semitic comments, how can they possibly quote Pegler and get off scot-free? At the very least they are absurd hypocrites, if not secret fascists. Perhaps it's not fair to insinuate people's motives, but sometimes these things still need to brought to the public's attention so they can make their own judgment.
DMDucncan: If there are no viable third party candidates, it's because there are no viable third parties.
Why not? The apathy of the American populace.
There's nothing stopping us from forming a Green Party, for example, but we live in a country where the average American thinks the political spectrum starts at Center-Left and ends at Center-Right.
Per dictatorship: the confusion could be cleared up if we stopped referring to the "conservatives" as conservatives, when in reality they are reactionaries. They're not looking to stop change, they are looking to turn back the clock to 1900.
From reactionary to fascist is a short step. Fascism relies on unreasoning nationalism, the concentration of power in the executive branch, the ever expanding power of the police to surveille its citizens, a state-managed media, etc.
Who does that sound like to you?
I'm not worried about a communist dictatorship DM, which is not a realistic fear in "the foreseeable future" in a country that has always maintained a near-hysterical fear of communism, but about the proto-fascism that we've been incubating in this country for decades, and which is coming along very nicely, cozily ensconced in chants of "USA! USA! and "America: Love It Or Leave IT" repression of dissent.
By all means, support your local third party candidate of choice (I 'll salute you for it), but be aware that it's a long, uphill climb, and not for people hoping for quick solutions.
Perfect, visceral images, a sputum covered canister that preserves the condensed horror of a forgotten time and place like a sacred relic.
Well, gosh, the fascist's obit appeared in the paper on the day I was born. (Co-incidence??/?)
I guess nobody can quote Mencken anymore....
This poster hung on my wall a long time ago. Just fill in the blanks to fit the audience.
"The streets of our country are in turmoil. The _________ are filled with students rebelling and rioting. _________ are seeking to destroy our country. _________ is threatening us with her might. And the republic is in danger. Yes! Danger from within and without. We need law and order! Without law and order our nation cannot survive."
RRSAFETY: It is the dull man who is always sure, and the sure man who is always dull.
And yes, I'm often guilty as charged.
I find the idea that the speech was written before she was even selected as a VP candidate is any sort of a defence.
SO the brains of the GOP,those who are attempting to sell their position quoted this incredibly bigotted source?
If Palin had written it i would have marked it down as soem folksy BS she thoguht might fly, it is altogether far more appalling that the masterminds behind the Republicans used it.
They are quoting a guy who advocated the assassination of a previous Democtratic Party Presidential candidate.
Did thery think that would go unnoticed under the lens of the worlds media let alone the far finer filter of the internet?
I wonder what Pegler would have made of Obama?
He'd be in the pointy white hat and bedsheet ensemble so fast he'd get rug burns.
So modern fascists sit around reading newspapers from the 1930's? Seriously, this dog-whistle to the far right meme is absolutely silly.
still nothing. Is there not one single person who can say something substantive in McCain's defense? Not one?
@#104
You're welcome. Your analysis must be dead-on, what with McCain giving up on Michigan and every major poll shows Obama's lead widening.
@#103
So modern fascists sit around reading newspapers from the 1930's? Seriously, this dog-whistle to the far right meme is absolutely silly.
What's silly is thinking the only way to know or read about Pegler is by reading a 1930's newspaper.
Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
I've been around for long, long years
Stole many man's soul and faith
And I was 'round when Jesus Christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that Pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around St. Petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the Czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a general's rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
(woo woo, woo woo)
I shouted out,
"Who killed the Kennedys?"
When after all
It was you and me
(who who, who who)
Let me please introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached Bombay
(woo woo, who who)
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
(who who, who who)
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But what's confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
(woo woo, who who)
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me Lucifer
'Cause I'm in need of some restraint
(who who, who who)
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
(woo woo)
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I'll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
(woo woo, woo woo)
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
(who who)
But what's puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
(woo woo, woo woo)
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
(woo woo)
Tell me baby, what's my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, what's my name
I tell you one time, you're to blame
Oh, who
woo, woo
Woo, who
Woo, woo
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Oh, yeah
What's my name
Tell me, baby, what's my name
Tell me, sweetie, what's my name
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Woo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Woo woo
Woo woo
or if you prefer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdfkYe3c5XI
People should also hold to task everyone who quotes that disgusting anti-semite, Shakespeare.
Isn't there enough real stuff to hate about Palin not to drudge up silly stuff like this?
Nick, what you need for fascism are a multitude of people who share the same values and who detest those who do not share their values, and a leader willing and able to direct that hatred "for the national good."
And THAT can come from either party.
Just read some of the comments in this thread or in any other political blog. Hating Sarah Palin is as stupid as loving her. It's precisely those extremely powerful emotions that lets politicians use you without your awareness. It's not important to love or hate your politicians but to EXPECT things from them and to hold them accountable. Love and hate just get in the way of that.
And the evidence that made me initially comment on this post is starting to bloom, and yet people will not see it. Did you bother to go to that link I posted earlier? Did you actually see what it was about? Are you not even a LITTLE bit curious about what Obama meant in the context of fighting terrorism when he called for a "civilian national security force as large and well funded as the military"? Are you not even a little concerned that Obama's speeches seem to have the strange ability to turn off people's brains and to mean all the best things the hearer wants them to mean?
It's kind of lonely here in the center, and to be honest, both democrats and republicans scare the hell out of me.
More good news: Both parties Christmas tree'd the bailout bill. This is horrific.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10057618-38.html?tag=nl.e433
*rolls eyes*
So modern fascists sit around reading newspapers from the 1930's? Seriously, this dog-whistle to the far right meme is absolutely silly.
What's silly is thinking the only way to know or read about Pegler is by reading a 1930's newspaper.
Let me try this a different way then:
So modern fascists sit around reading? Seriously, this dog-whistle to the far right meme is absolutely silly.
So modern fascists sit around reading?
You actually think that's an improvement to your argument?
Small Town Boy
- - - - - - - - - -
You leave in the morning
With everything you own
In a little black case
Alone on a platform
The wind and the rain
On a sad and lonely face
Mother will never understand
Why you had to leave
But the answers you seek
Will never be found at home
The love that you need
Will never be found at home
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
Pushed around and kicked around
Always a lonely boy
You were the one
That they'd talk about around town
As they put you down
And as hard as they would try
They'd hurt to make you cry
But you never cried to them
Just to your soul
No you never cried to them
Just to your soul
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
Cry , boy, cry...
You leave in the morning
With everything you own
In a little black case
Alone on a platform
The wind and the rain
On a sad and lonely face
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
Run away, turn away, run away, turn away, run away.
occurs to me many would be too young to have seen the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7-q1WRaKNg