Tritium zipper pulls

It's a shame wonderful that tritium (a radioactive form of hydrogen that emits light) is illegal legal for some consumer products? in the US, because these zipper pulls are nifty. UPDATE: I'm not sure if these are legal or not. Tritium zipper pulls

[#1 posted by retrojoe , September 22, 2008 1:52 PM]

Tritium isn't actually 'illegal' in the US. It just can't be used for frivolous uses. It can be used in things like watches and compasses where it is useful.

[#2 posted by knifie_sp00nie , September 22, 2008 1:53 PM]

Huh? If tritium isn't legal in the US, someone needs to tell Trijicon.

http://trijicon.com/

[#3 posted by Narual , September 22, 2008 1:57 PM]

Forget that, what about the "Romantic Voice Detection 3-LED Light" advertised on the same link...

[#4 posted by giantnegro , September 22, 2008 1:59 PM]

Yep, totally legal for guns; I've got tritium sights on one of mine.

[#5 posted by miked , September 22, 2008 2:02 PM]

Um, I have Tritium night-sights on my guns. It's not illegal.

[#6 posted by cubby96 , September 22, 2008 2:05 PM]

I have an old (think mid-80s) tritium-based EXIT sign from a movie theater. It was removed in a renovation, and my buddy who worked there gave it to me. I was always pretty careful with it, because it had some clear warnings stuck on the inner parts. I think he gave it to me 15-20 years ago, and it was still working last fall, the last time I had it displayed.

[#7 posted by Anonymous , September 22, 2008 2:11 PM]

Tritium doesn't emit light, it emits beta particles. Used above, the gas is inside a phosphor-coated tube.

[#8 posted by krylon , September 22, 2008 2:11 PM]

NRC info on exempt uses for radioactive materials:
http://www.nrc.gov/materials/miau/consumer-pdts.html

10 CFR 30.19 covering the exemption for tritium inserts:
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/cfr/part030/part030-0019.html

Section c specifically states as follows:
(c) The exemption in paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to tritium, krypton-85, or promethium-147 used in products primarily for frivolous purposes or in toys or adornments.

Wow. I didn't believe it actually used the word "frivolous" until I looked it up! I assumed that was just shorthand. I guess the policy makes sense. Not too many people throw their gun sights into landfills.

[#9 posted by killbox , September 22, 2008 2:14 PM]

you can get them in 3 sizes and atleast 3 colors. from Deal Extreme
http://www.dealextreme.com

Reactions people have when I wear mine around my neck are priceless. "OMG its full of Cancer run away!"

[#10 posted by w000t , September 22, 2008 2:16 PM]

Made me think of the only Superfund site I've ever eaten on (that I know of).

Thumbnail version: an Athens, GA factory that made tritium capsules for military watches and equipment became a Superfund site after it shut down and is now a McDonald's (plus a couple of other small stores).

Longer version

[#11 posted by Takuan , September 22, 2008 2:17 PM]

what, me worry?
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/cancer/dn12984-tritium-hazard-rating-should-be-doubled.html

[#12 posted by bardfinn , September 22, 2008 2:18 PM]

It is illegal to import Tritium into or out of the United States: It's classed by the US Government as munitions because it is used in fission-fusion-fission bombs as a booster.

There are products made with Strontium oxide aluminate, which will suffice for most people's needs unless they must never be exposed to ultraviolet light.

[#13 posted by Enoch_Root , September 22, 2008 2:19 PM]

So illegal Navy SLEALs get the tritium!

http://www.gemday.com/item0724.htm

[#14 posted by HarveyBoing , September 22, 2008 2:19 PM]

Technically, it's not the tritium that glows, but rather phosphors excited by the electrons emitted by the tritium.

Wikipedia is mixed on claims of safety. The tritium articles says it's beta radiation is not harmful externally, but the beta particle article says that beta radiation can in fact penetrate living tissue and cause mutations.

Apparently, it's safer than radium at least. But use at your own risk. :)

(I've got a friend who has one of these zipper pulls and he swears it's not dangerous at all. I haven't borrowed a Geiger counter to see for myself though).

[#15 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 2:35 PM]

Tritium emits a very low energy (.019 Mev) Beta-minus particle (aka an electron) when it decays.. Low enough that paper or dead skin is a shield. Compare with Strontium-90 that emits a .546 MeV electron...

About the only way a tritium beta can cause a problem is if you have water with a tritium atom for one of the hydrogen atoms, and the tritium decays inside the body.

[#16 posted by Harrkev , September 22, 2008 2:45 PM]

The only way that tritium is dangerous is if it enters your body. Owning a tritium capsule is NOT dangerous. Breaking it open and inhaling the contents is.

[#17 posted by Osprey101 , September 22, 2008 2:48 PM]

@#14- or inhaled as tritium gas, which would irradiate lung cells.

IIRC, tritiated gadgetry is banned from US nuclear submarines. The radiation detectors are so sensitive that anything above background sets off the alarms. So, if that fancy tritiated watch were to break- well, all heck breaks loose I suppose.

[#18 posted by amuderick , September 22, 2008 3:10 PM]

Even if it was ingested, the amount of Tritium in one of these wouldn't keep me up at night worrying. Really. So insignificant. It is quickly excreted as tritiated water. Unlike many other isotopes which are heavy metals and retained by the body.

The beta radiation is very weak. From my own testing, it appears that weak x-rays are generated through interaction with the phosphor and/or quartz ampule via bremsstrahlung radiation. Still, wouldn't worry about it. You need a very sensitive detector to detect it. You need to remind yourself that just because something can be detected, doesn't mean it is dangerous.

[#19 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 3:11 PM]

@#16: The regular radiation detectors on a submarine aren't that sensitive, and 'background' is a slippery subject when you live next to a nuclear reactor. I was an ELT (a health physicist in civilian-speak) from 77 to 81, and I did all the radiation surveys on an LA-class fast attack boat.

We don't like tritium because we have a sealed environment, among other reasons...

[#20 posted by Spikeles , September 22, 2008 3:19 PM]

Any chance of getting cancer from the tritium is probably still less than getting cancer from second hand smoking, and yet the government bans tritium and not cigarettes? Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[#21 posted by Zan , September 22, 2008 3:28 PM]

As I've seen it put, bananas put out more radiation than these zipper pulls.

Don't believe me? See http://radlab.nl/radsafe/archives/9503/msg00074.html

Disclaimer:

Neither Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, the University of California, nor the Department of Energy recommends eating bananas.

[#22 posted by Axx , September 22, 2008 3:38 PM]

Next BB post: TSA goes apeshit when Mark Frauenfelder walks through airport security with radioactive, toxic, "potentially explosive" tritium zippers.

Next TSA regulation: no zippers allowed on passenger clothing.

[#23 posted by PaulRedeker , September 22, 2008 3:49 PM]

#16

Your half right.

Allow me to clarify

I have some experience in this matter.

The radiation detectors worn by submariners are called TLD's

Thermoluminecent Dosimeters.

They contain a materials sensitive to radiation,
You might know it as film, similar to film in old cameras. As the TLD is encased in opaque plastic. Light should not be abel to contaminate it. Also, the plastic has known melt rates when overexposed to radiation. (IE nuclear accident)

TLD's are worn on the belts.

Now, Put your hands at your side, and tell me where your wrist is..... Thats right, close to your belt.

[#24 posted by Cupcake Faerie , September 22, 2008 3:58 PM]

Oh I want one!
Okay, so how many laser pointers do I have to have pointed at the tritium source before I can cause a fusion reaction?

[#25 posted by George William Herbert , September 22, 2008 4:19 PM]

Bardfinn: The quantity of Tritium required for useful productive utilization in a nuclear weapon is order of grams. A gram of Tritium is about 9,600 Ci of activity - about ten million times that of the average light source usage. It would take a lot of light sources to gather enough tritium to be dangerous as a weapon.

As a radioactive health risk, much more serious, though. Don't break your gunsights...

[#26 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 4:23 PM]

#@23: Sorry, but that may be true for a watch with a radium dial but *not* for a tritium dial. You cannot detect a 19 KeV electron thru a watch face. Besides, the plastic shell on a TLD would block the Tritium Beta anyway.

[#27 posted by trr , September 22, 2008 4:37 PM]

#17,
That is correct. When I was in the Navy, I was an ELT (Engineering Lab Technician) on a nuclear submarine. I bought a cool Citizen watch at the Navy Exchange and brought it on board and checked it and found that it was detectable by our radiacs, so I went back and exchanged (ha!) it for a Seiko watch that wasn't.

The reason for the restriction is that it would make it harder to track down contamination and make us have to do more extensive contamination surveys if people were bringing external sources onboard. It makes ELTs jobs simpler.

There are no "always-on" radioactive contamination detection instruments on nuclear powered ships, but periodic surveys are done to look for contamination or abnormal radiation levels.

Since it was my job to do these surveys I certainly could have gotten away having the watch, but I did the right thing and didn't bring onboard. Anyway, I still have the Seiko watch, and I think it did contain tritium but since the half life of tritium is about 12 years and the watch is almost 20 years old the luminosity is almost all gone, probably also due to leakage. It was never even detectable when new as the watch bezel easily stopped the weak beta particles from reaching the radiac I tested it with.

[#28 posted by theMage , September 22, 2008 4:46 PM]

#23

Not quite. I worked in a nuclear power plant and the TLDs we wore were connected to our ID badge worn on the chest.

The TLD contains small pieces of plastic that , when exposed to radiation, store that energy. When they are heated ("THERMO-") they release an amount of light ("-luminecent"). The more light, the more radiation was absorbed.

If they melted, you have other problems...

[#29 posted by Anonymous , September 22, 2008 4:47 PM]

Correct, Tritium cannot be detected via geiger, and exposure on TLD or X-ray film requires days, if not weeks of constant exposure. Tritium is typically detected via scintillation, which is essentially what gun sights, zipper-pulls and the like do to amplify the signal from the beta emission. Not only is a piece of paper sufficient to block a tritium beta, a few cm of air will suffice. The long-term danger as someone pointed out are the induced X-rays, from the Bremsstrahlung effect this is why a lot of RAD shielding is lucite and not lead. Low density nuclei (H, C etc.) cause longer Hv's to be emitted.

[#30 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 4:50 PM]

If I recall correctly the divers on the sub DID have Navy-issued watches with hot dials. We knew about them and they were normally stored away (not out on guy's wrists) so we didn't have to track them.

TRR: you were a better boy than me.... I kept my Citizen diver's watch and used it as an impromptu test source. It was good for a few dozen counts/sec above background (not enough to exceed any limits)...

[#31 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 4:54 PM]

#28: Navy TLDs *are* worn on the belt, not on a badge, at least between 77 and 81...

[#32 posted by trr , September 22, 2008 5:07 PM]

Re: Navy TLDs.
they are used for detecting gamma (for the guys back aft around the reactor - the "nucs") and neutrons (for the guys up front- the "coners" as we nucs called them whose primary source of radiation exposure is the, ummmm, nuclear weapons. Neither is designed to measure or capable of measuring alpha or beta exposure. One of my jobs (and RickT's) was to read and record the nucs (calcium fluoride) TLDs every month. The coner's lithium fluoride TLDs had to be sent out for measurement and that was handled by the corpsman.

I wish now that I had kept that watch. The Seiko doesn't work that well anymore and isn't as cool as the Citizen was.

[#33 posted by Oskar , September 22, 2008 5:14 PM]

I wonder how many pants with these zippers they would sell?

I don't care how safe it is, I ain't putting those things near my testicles.

[#34 posted by Falcon_Seven , September 22, 2008 5:35 PM]

Basic rules for dealing with nuclear radiation:
Radiation = BAD
No Radiation = GOOD
Basic types of emitters:
Alpha emitters = OKAY (up to a point, VERY BAD if ingested)
Beta emitters = OKAY (up to a point, BAD if ingested in quantity)
Gamma emitters = VERY BAD
Delta emitters = Make you look like Capt. Pike (one beep for YES, two beeps for NO)
Now, please do NOT chew on or break the glowing Tritium capsule.

[#35 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 5:38 PM]

Oskar: if you can't find your zipper in the dark without a glowing tab I don't think you need about getting your 'nads irradiated. :-)

Besides, your testicles are getting more of a dose from the radioactive carbon and potassium in your body from a tritium light could ever give....

[#36 posted by bardfinn , September 22, 2008 6:15 PM]

George William Herbert:

Each warhead in a thermonuclear design needs about .22 grams per year for maintenance purposes.

You get tritium from people who can produce it - people with nuclear programs - or you produce it yourself.

If the world's nuclear superpowers are threatening to invade you if you even build a breeder reactor, then the very next thing you'd need to do i smuggle in your maintenance tritium. Tens of thousands of tiny ampoules would, while not /ideal/, be a vector.

[#37 posted by dimmer , September 22, 2008 7:31 PM]

@#20:
Second hand smoke has not been shown to be a source of cancer outside of high-intensity locations (specifically, a child being raised by a chain smoking at home parent). But it makes for great tax increases and prohibitions on individual freedoms.

[#38 posted by RJ , September 22, 2008 7:32 PM]

Does Tritium really put out beta-level radiation? I thought it was alpha. Still, even with beta-levels in such tiny quantities as you'd see in a zipper pull or a wristwatch, I'd hardly call it dangerous.

Show me a watch made of lead, where you flip-up a lid over the face and it fires a stream of gamma radiation into your face.

Time... to die! :O

[#39 posted by RickT , September 22, 2008 8:15 PM]

Yup, google for the table of the nuclides and it shows how tritium decays. By the way, the Beta-minus (electron) is emitted with LESS energy than used in a color TV.

[#40 posted by Neuron , September 22, 2008 8:37 PM]

When I was a physics major, about 25 years ago, my professor used tritium in an experiment (as the target for a pion beam.) The prof said they got the tritium for free from the government. The explanation he gave was that if the govt charged anything for it, the Soviets would be able to figure out how much of it we had.

[#41 posted by the specialist , September 22, 2008 10:00 PM]

anyone who thinks they need a tritium zipper pull DESERVES a tritium zipper pull. on their FLY.

as they say about roads in WV - "it's how we cull the herd".

gawd - people will spend money on the stupidest shit.

[#42 posted by Anonymous , September 23, 2008 3:02 AM]

I would have thought that the target market for these wouldn't be for the zip on your flies, but for zips on things like backpacks.

For example you are camping and your torch dies, you can see where the zipper for the pocket with the spare is etc.

[#43 posted by Savara , September 23, 2008 3:40 AM]

Does anyone know about getting them within the UK / what the legalities are on either export from the US, or their use in the UK?

[#44 posted by PaulRedeker , September 23, 2008 4:42 AM]

RickT and TRR

My bad, I got tritium mixed with radium.
I am shamed.

I blame a lack of coffee.

[#45 posted by DixieFlatline , September 23, 2008 8:01 AM]

Does Tritium really put out beta-level radiation? I thought it was alpha.

That would be a neat trick. A tritium atom (H-3) is 1 proton and 2 neutrons. An alpha particle is a He-4 nucleus (2 protons and 2 neutrons). There's nowhere in tritium to get an alpha particle from.

Instead, it decays by giving off an beta particle (an electron) which turns one of the neutrons into a proton, so it becomes a light isotope of helium (He-3) instead of H-3.

[#46 posted by foop , September 23, 2008 8:34 AM]

@ #42...

I believe that their use in the UK is less regulated than in the US. I have a few of these, in a slightly larger version, in the UK. I think I saw them first on BoingBoing, but it may have been Engadget.

I am not a radiological safety person, but when I put one of these in front of a Geiger counter at work, it was noticeably above background (not as much as our depleted uranium, but still...). After that, I stopped using it as a key ring for the keys I keep in my trouser pocket.

[#47 posted by cha0tic , September 23, 2008 1:15 PM]

Well I got something like this for my bunches of keys. Helps me find them when I just dump them in my bag. I also got different colours, so I can tell the difference between my work keys and House keys.

@Savara #42 You can buy them in the UK. There are a couple of different types available (1,2,3 )I'd check out a few different sites for prices, as I think mine were 3 different colours for a tenner.

[#48 posted by shokk , September 23, 2008 7:58 PM]

Or maybe it's faux tritium and you're all getting your leg yanked.

[#49 posted by Takuan , September 23, 2008 8:28 PM]

why aren't they concerned about the massive amounts of depleted uranium in veterans bodies?

[#50 posted by AirPillo , September 24, 2008 2:01 AM]

That would have been handy on the zippers of my sleeping bag last time I was camping.

At night I had to wriggle out of the thing halfway and find a flashlight to find the zipper. God help me if a bear had happened to drop by and say hello to cause me to do that.

[#51 posted by airship , September 25, 2008 6:45 AM]

I have a tritium 'zipper pull' on my keychain and I love it, just for its conversation value. I can't wait to take it through airport security. Gitmo, here I come!

[#52 posted by floatingatoll , September 26, 2008 11:21 AM]

I contacted TSA at a California airport about a Navy Seal diving watch with a tritium glowing dial and received this response from the site manager. Presumably this would be valid for a tritium zipper pull as well.

> Thank you for your email concerning your watch going through security. The watch will not be confiscated during screening due to the tritium gas illumination. As you divest your carry on belongings prior to entering the walk through metal detector, include your watch into the bin and it should be fine, unless it contains other features such as small knife, sharp blade, etc.

[#53 posted by clone 452326 , November 29, 2008 12:24 PM]

i have aquired a small amout of tritium (that is not in just a whatch or gunsight raw untouched tritium) is this illegal

[#54 posted by Takuan , November 29, 2008 12:47 PM]

where and how much?

[#55 posted by Anonymous , December 23, 2008 11:59 PM]

so would i be able to buy those tritium keychains in the US. or would it be confiscated upon inpection?