American Psychological Association members can't aid in military torture
The ban means those who are American Psychological Association members can't assist the U.S. military at these sites. They can only work there for humanitarian purposes or with non-governmental groups, according to Stephen Soldz, a Boston psychologist. Soldz is founder of an ethics coalition that has long supported the ban...2008 APA Petition Resolution Ballot, Psychologists vote against role in interrogation (via Blogzilla)Psychologists have been involved in decisions that approve of coercion methods, including "taking away comfort items like clothes and toilet paper from detainees" to help extract information from them, Soldz said.
He said that some even declined to diagnose post-traumatic stress in detainees because that would suggest detainees had been abused or harmed while in custody.
...
Whereas the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Mental Health and the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture have determined that treatment equivalent to torture has been taking place at the United States Naval Base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. [1]
Whereas this torture took place in the context of interrogations under the direction and supervision of Behavioral Science Consultation Teams (BSCTs) that included psychologists. [2, 3]
Whereas the Council of Europe has determined that persons held in CIA black sites are subject to interrogation techniques that are also equivalent to torture [4], and because psychologists helped develop abusive interrogation techniques used at these sites. [3, 5]
Whereas the International Committee of the Red Cross determined in 2003 that the conditions in the US detention facility in Guantánamo Bay are themselves tantamount to torture [6], and therefore by their presence psychologists are playing a role in maintaining these conditions.
Be it resolved that psychologists may not work in settings where persons are held outside of, or in violation of, either International Law (e.g., the UN Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions) or the US Constitution (where appropriate), unless they are working directly for the persons being detained or for an independent third party working to protect human rights[7].
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Primum non nocere
The American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association are two distinct entities -- they are not interchangeable. The American Psychiatric Association condemned the Bush Cabal's illegal/inhumane interrogations early in the game, and wisely prohibited its members from participating. The American Psychological Association, as the quoted article indicates, is just now beginning to let go of its sociopathic delusions, under intense pressure from its membership. But it's going to be a long and turbulent recovery.
PS: your signup captchas Stink. On. Ice.
@MDH #1, well, steal my heart. Those who would be healers who indulge in extremely questionable ethics harm themselves and the trust put in them by the community.
"A slender majority." How depressing is that?
As a British psychology bod, I was surprised by the willingness of APA members over the years to get stuck into the Global War on Abstract Concepts torture programs, given that psychologists as a group tend to incline leftwards. I think what happened was an organised attempt both by senior members who approved of the neo-con movement, and faintly Mengele-esque APA members who were employed by the military/intelligence community.
Pffft. They had to debate whether or not its ok to help torture people?
@Graham, you beat me to it. "A slender majority," indeed.
Disgraceful.
I think they are too busy torturing the mentally ill back to sanity.
Sanity being whatever one person, the doctor believes it is. Not a jury.
Do you smoke or drink? That's insane because it causes cancer and death. Suicidality
Homosexuality was considered mental illness , until homosexual psychiatrists got it removed in 1973. One day its in, one day its out.
Hospital(jail) for as long as the Doctor deems one is sick or until the money runs out.
E.C.T. to destroy peoples brains so their non-physical mind can no longer remember it is sick.
Antidepressants that are no better than a placebo, yet making pharmacuitical companies billions.
You too can be mentally ill one day, and enjoy the warm embrace of psychiatry.
This was not the American Psychiatric Association (which represents MDs), but the American Psychological Association (which represents PhDs - Psychologists). The former came out against this practice long ago. The latter fought its membership on this issue quite a while before even allowing a vote. - Oh, just noticed that DKMNOW already said this, and better.
One thing to keep in mind is that these resolutions have no real bearing on the reality of torture - they only affect individuals who are members of voluntary professional organizations. They're important statements about the views of members, but not the same thing as law.
Gz...hw cn y mstk "psychtrsts" wth "psychlgsts"? t's vn rght thr n yr xtrct - "mrcn Psychlgcl ssctn". Ths jst pnts y s pln gnrnt. Gt t rght fr gds sk.
You too can be mentally ill one day, and enjoy the warm embrace of psychiatry.
Wow. I guess I need to go inform my best friend, who sought out and had sessions with a psychiatrist that she's completely batshit for wanting to do so, and that she was tortured.
News flash: The fact that homosexual "sexuality fixing" counseling has been ceased actually contributes to the field's image. It means that psychology and psychiatry advance, and while psychiatrists and psychologists are guilty of the same prejudices the rest of their society is, they tend to get past those prejudices more quickly.
Except in cases like these. Slender majority? In 2008, years after this mess began?
Bastards. Vile, bottom-feeding, blind bastards.
Not -all- of the members of this foul organization. Just the ones that executed this horrid bullshit.
@Graham #4:
"A slender majority." How depressing is that?
Seriously.
My time in therapy always seemed torturous. This puts it in a whole new light ...
Slender majority?
The resolution passed 8792 to 6157. It is depressing that anyone voted pro-torture but how is a 58.8% majority "slender"?
Because they're setting us up for Obama's 58-42% "slender" victory in a few months.
As Pete Seeger sang, "Last train to Nurenberg, all aboard!"
Enforcement is the key... how much bite does this resolution have? I'm just waiting for someone to pull the "unless they are working... for an independent third party working to protect human rights" defense - But I only did it to help stop terrorism!
mm, ht t rn n th prd hr, bt...
"tkng wy cmfrt tms lk clths nd tlt ppr frm dtns"
Y frgt, mst f ths ppl dd NT hv tlt ppr r cln clths t bgn wth ntl gvn ths thngs by S frcs. Ths s nt trtr; smlrly, drssng ppl n slly tfts nd rdclng thm s nt trtr thr. Wht's nxt, d w bn prsns ltgthr bcs thr rstrctvnss bns crmnl hmn rghts? ctlly, dn't nswr tht bcs lrdy knw wht hlf f y wll sy, LL.
m vtrn f n f ths cnflcts nd thnk Bsh s tl s mch s th vrg bngbng rdr, bt lt's vw ths rsnbly: N NNCMBTNT HDS WR CT FF N TH MKNG F THS PRSN.
Ths s nn-ss. Srsly, cn w gt bck t th md scntst Frnfldr rtcls w lv s mch?
Because they're setting us up for Obama's 58-42% "slender" victory in a few months.
Gah! Mindreaders! all of you!
slender is a good word in this context (its not a presidential election). try this: '4 out of 10 psychologists think torture is okay'.
mhammer8: I can understand that you don't want to be on the same team that tortures. I won't bore you with cites, facts, or datapoints to contradict this your understandable viewpoint. If you hold this belief any such datapoints will hold little to no meaning for you (cough, waterboarding, cough). Everyone wants to be a good guy, and on the team of good guys.
What I'm unclear on is if this resolution has any teeth to it at all. Will these shrinks continue to be licensed to practice their craft if they ignore this resolution? Is this just a 'torture is now unpopular' vote amung the shrinks?
While this is 'good news', unless I'm missing something it also seems meaningless.
anon23
You forget, most of these people did NOT have toilet paper or clean clothes to begin with until given these things by US forces.
"most" ? You got figures for that? Or are we to take your racist blitherings as fact?
@Jhn Clthrt: H, f crs t bcms rc ss t y, tht mks t mr plmc. Mr thn n f ths ppl trnsprtd ws Ccsn nd mr spcfclly Wstrn, t hs nthng t d wth rc. Thy r ppl wh lv n cndtns 1000x mr sqld thn ny f r dtntn fclts, BY CHC.
G t Pkstn, g t fghnstn, thn y r qlfd t spk. Dlt.
5: Yes, the APA definitely has at least a few hard-right thinkers working on the DSM-V, which certainly reflects on the perspectives of the senior members. Somehow I'm not surprised there was dragging of feet about issuing a statement on this.
mhammer - in theory the entire point of this nation is about innocent until proven guilty. "All men are created equal..." is not limited to "all Americans".
There's no difference to between 'can't prove it' and 'won't prove it'. Injustice is injustice.
Nation of laws, that's what you served for, and I do thank you for that.
22: Urm, sorry, I got confused by the interchanging of American *Psychiatric* Association and American *Psychological* Association between the headline and the story. I withdraw my comment.
@ John Coulthart: Reading my previous comment, that was pretty senselessly pugilistic, and I apologize.
Message boards like this burn me because they perpetuate the idea among the pickup-truck set that the left consists entirely of ivory-tower blowhards. Thus are born the O'Reillys of the world, to great acclaim.
Seriously, research the Afghan/Pakistan situations before deciding they will fix themselves. Those two nations, much like most of Africa, have no hand on their own tiller and they "Inshallah" their way into ruin. I personally took US engineers who saved remote areas from flooding and US doctors who saved lives (not to mention US Military IMAMS) into very remote areas these 2 countries are incapable of serving.
The 5 or so tribes running Afghanistan are the same as gangs running major sections of US cities: it's not about religion,race, ideology, or thought, it's about power. Westerners flock to join these tribes the same reasons mercenaries flock to Herzegovina and Somalia: power and wealth, controlling opium traffic and arms.
The bottom line is, the area is geographically strategic and will be fought over for eternity. It's been going on for 5 consecutive US Presidents regardless of ideological stripe; we will never stop it or even know the top 70% of its goings-on. It was silly of me to get inflamed. All the ranting on sites like this will never, ever change the Republic.
MHammer8, John Coulthart, could you both please calm down and stop shouting insults at each other?
dt: ws dvwld! S mch fr frdm f spch...
I will never dare to quibble with my BoingBoing overlords again.
Until ideologies espoused by sites like this, FoxNews, and Huffington are more well-thought out and articulated, we will always be a two-party system.
Absolutely, I just apologized. I accept responsibility.
Seriously, devoweling stuff like my first comment that is in no way inflammatory merely because it's not syncophantic really weakens the site. My 2c.
First, do no harm.
I'm a member of the APA, and it's not as simple as pro-torture or anti-torture. The resolution didn't say "it's not okay to torture", it said "it's not okay to work in a setting in which there is torture". There's a major difference there. The so-called "pro-torture" people argue that if they are removed from these settings, no military personnel is going to step in when someone is being traumatized. (The counter-argument is that these hero psychologists are few and far between; it's an ugly system that discourages dissent.) Their other argument is that there are lots of areas with terrible human rights records, and if you keep psychologists from working there, how will those people can any help? (The counter-argument is pretty much the same.)
I voted for the resolution, and I think it's incredibly sad that so many people didn't, and some of them are probably pro-torture people, but that really wasn't what the debate within the APA has been focused on. It's a bit inaccurate to characterize it as pro vs. anti torture.
mhammer8,
I am the reaper of vowels. You were not disemvowelled for having an opinion. You were disemvowelled for ranting and raving. Which, by the way, you haven't entirely ceased. Users with a long comment history get to have a bad day occasionally. So far, your first day as a commenter seems to be your bad day. You might want to rethink that.
the percentages merely reflect the average nature of the memberships.
DKMNOW is exactly right about American Psychiatric Assoc is not the American Psychological Assoc.
What I find particularly interesting is the intention that the APA (Psychological) represents all psychologists. Actually many former-members of the APA left the organization SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS REASON (APA being wishy-washy on the torture stuff) or other reasons. In fact, many clinicians (vs. researchers) had moved over to other associations because they feel that the APA is just too large and too general to represent their interests. Other large Psychological associations are Association for Behavior and Cognitive Therapies (ABCT) also previously known as AABT (Association for Advancement of Behavior Therapy), or the Association for Psychological Science.
Disclosure: I'm a member of APA and ABCT as well as a grad student in clinical psychology.
Count me in with the slim margins appalled.
mhammer8 @28: You should not take for granted that you aren't being offensive. "These people" is a great signifier that the writer or speaker is about to utter a generality that on not-very close examination is insupportable.
Who exactly are you talking about when you say that "these people" have never used toilet paper or worn clean clothes? Jose Padilla, perhaps? A US citizen who, at Gitmo, has been tortured into near catatonia? Perhaps some of the British citizens who have been detained at Guantanamo and subsequently released? I assure you, we do have toilet paper in this country.
Perhaps you're talking of the numerous Iraqis detained at Abu Ghuraib? No, because surely you realise that Iraq used to be a rich country where the citizens could buy as much toilet paper as they liked. Can't be the Afghans, because their country has long been located on a major trade route between various bits of Asia, and who can certainly afford to buy a new set of clothes from time to time.
You're either talking about all these people, in which case I think everybody reading this blog has cause to be insulted, or you're talking about a people who exist only in your head, in which case I, for one, don't want my reality contaminated by your fevered imagination.
"a rich country where the citizens could buy as much toilet paper as they liked."
Fantastic sentence, that.
But seriously, since when is toilet paper the measure of Civilisation?
... and then there's that Canadian kid (of Arab descent, of course) who has been in gitmo since he was 15! I wonder what those psychologists there have done to/for him.
I am pleasantly surprised that the psychologists decided not to work any longer in facilities where torture is practiced. If they would follow the spirit of this decision by walking out of every psychiatric center in the USA, to protest the pharmacological extermination of 3 generations of America's free thinkers and "beautiful minds"; that would be progress.
Unfortunately, there will still be well paid psychologists in schools sending children for clinical trials of experimental drugs. There will still be psychologists in prisons singling out prisoners for psychiatric diagnosis and special treatment with metabolism destroying anti-psychotic "medication". And there will still be psychologists loudly proclaiming that they are not psychiatrists and MD's saying that Psychiatrists are MD's.
Health is the last barricade standing between most people and their happiness. Psychology/Psychiatry stand in front of that barricade and administer rejection to the poor and the self hating among the wealthy.
Re #2
Meanwhile the American Psychotic Association heartily approves of torture, and asks all practicing psychotics who are not already doing so to assist their governent.
BTW, because of the words crossed out in the title, every comment posting to this thread is crossing out the entire sidebar below it (for lack of html closure.) Just thought someone might like to know.
The html looks correct. And the strikeouts show up on every page.
#13: Although 58% is statistically significant, in that it's unlikely that the "true" proportion opposed is 50% or less, it still means that 42% took the other side. It's "slender" in the sense that a net flux of just 15% of the majority to the other side, would flip the picture. Not exactly a robust consensus.
To the meta conversation: All of our great-great grandparents probably didn't use toilet paper or wear clean clothes real often either.
So what? What does that prove? That we can treat them like animals? our great great grandparents would be proud.
Gosh! Just in time.
The html looks correct. And the strikeouts show up on every page.
I'm wondering about this same thing.
If the problem were in an entry, I could fix it, but they don't let me into the boiler room.
I'm sure it'll get noticed and thus fixed. Haha. Look at the links on the very bottom! It bleeds into them as well.
Strikeout day -- the day after Talk Like a Pirate Day.
h s. ny cmmnt y dm "ffnsv" y nw tk th vwls t f s t rds lk n SMSr n crck. Mnwhl y rbbt n bt "frdm f th prss"..."cnsrshp"...nd ths drdfl rght-wng Rpblcns. Hlrs.
Metronicity,
Perhaps you should simply try being polite.
@ ntns, s. W mst ll b "plt" nw mst w? 'm wtng fr th "nrml stndrds f dcncy" spl nw. Gd gg y hv hr - th kpr f "pltnss". Gs wth yr nmsk's stts s Gd. r hs rthly pstn s th hmsxl lvr f mprr Hdrn. ps! myb tht's mplt.
I think you rude as well. Shall we poll?
And now we have comments that should be completely stricken. (...and right when the problem seems to be fixed. Drat.)
Poll the troll? Oh how fun! I think I can come up with a few more adjectives for the running...
Metronicity: do you wish to reconsider?
Or you could try being funny, Metronicity, but I think that would be more of a stretch for you.
I agree with metronicity, what kind of sdisgusting, barbaric community thinks that people being polite too each other in a public discussion is acceptable. You make me sick.
Metronicity,
Perhaps you should read the Moderation Policy.
I believe the margin was approximatley 9:6, which is hardly a slender majority. Moreover, it seems the society is about to change its leadership in favor of the referendum, the current leadership apparently standing with the 6.
All in all, an encouraging development. Now let's hope that the trend runs more to punishing the enablers of this sad chapter in American history.
As a clinical phd student and a member of both APA and ABCT, I am very aware of the debate about APA members participating in interrogation. The big debate was whether or not psychologists should be there to PREVENT exploitation of prisoners.
However, the thing that really gets my goat is that APA has well over 10,000 members. APA often has these votes, and doesn't send out ballots to their members. I never got one, nor have I ever gotten a ballot to vote for APA. They tend to be a highly politicized group of psychologists who don't ask their members for approval before engaging in any sort of policy action.
If it wasn't so difficult to find jobs without going to an APA approved program or internship, I wouldn't be a member in the first place.
@# 36 nacnud:
Yeah, no kidding. Bidets, man.
This may beat out the salvia thread for recent funniest...can we keep the crazies? Just exile them to their very own thread where they can rave and foam for the amusement of the civilized. So do I pray, O Impersonal Force of Moderation...:D
@ ntns, 'v jst rd yr mdrtn plcy. r shld sy th mdrtn plcy f Trs Nlsn Hydn. Thn spnt gd hr rdng thrgh ll th cmmnts. Hd m rchng fr "Knts" by R.D. Lng.
Sms 'm nt th nly n wh dsn't lk th dsnvwlng bs thr. Thr wr sm rlly gd cmmnts n th thrd. Th bst ws ths n frm "Tksh" -
"Whw.
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'm nt gng t g bck nd try t rmmbr wh sd tht th cmmnts hr wr "vrwhlmngly" n fvr f Trs's pstn, bt wll pltly dsgr. Mny f th cmmnts hr hv xprssd dscntntmnt, f nt trght dsgst, t th pltczng nd rbtrry ntr f mny f ths dtrl dcsns. Th fct tht ths thrd s s lngthy shld b sm ndctn f hw plrzng ths s. 'm qt sr Trs hs n dg hr, bt s tht rlly s srprsng? nd vn f nly fftth f BngBng's rdrshp dsgrs, cnsdrng th xtrm pplrty f ths blg, sn't tht ngh rsn t hv ths dscssn? Bt t mch dsgrmnt gts y dsmvwld, r wrs, s wtch wht y thnk. Nnthlss, kndly dd my cmplnt t th lst, pls.
Hr's wht rlly rbs m th wrng wy. hv bn fn f BngBng snc th rlst dys, nd nvr hs t smd s nslr nd hv-mndd s t ds rght nw. Trlls r th scrg f th ntrnt, w ll knw tht, bt ths pst s pr shwbtng. Trs hs md t clr wht th plcs r, nd lthgh mdrtn srvs t s th cnvrstn lng, t nly wrks prvdd tht th mdrtr sn't mkng snd nd nhlpfl cmmnts hrslf.
Mlclm Mggrdg nc ntd tht "gd tst nd hmr r cntrdctn n trms, lk chst whr." Cvlty s vrt, bt ndgntn's vc. S ftn w blv tht bcs n pnn s npplr, t mst b ncrrct. W hv prvn tht, s spcs, w r ncvlzd, nd tht w bhv strngly n grps. W hv frthr prvn, tm nd gn, tht w r ll dply flwd ndvdls. ftn w r cprcs, nd vn mr ftn w ply fvrts. Prhps ths vry thrd wll hlp t xps th sllnss nd slf-cngrtltn f sch plcs s dsmvlwlmnt, nd pv th wy fr smlr, lbt smwht mr cnsdrt nd lss hmltng frms f pblc shmng. ftr ll, th htrs nd lv, t. vn mr thn th lvrs d. Ld by xmpl.
Lt's fc t, f nly ffth f th ppl rd th dsmvwld cmmnts, thy my s wll jst b dltd ltgthr. Ys, y thght f nt nw wy t cmbt trlls, bt s wht? Th trm "trll" tslf s dhmnzng nd mn-sprtd. Rdr's pnns f thr fllw cntrbtrs shldn't b vrtly nflncd by th blfs f fw, vn f th fw r vrts. Bt t s nt wtht prcdnt, ths "s gnst thm" mntlty. rrvrnc nd mn-sprtdnss r cmmn trts mng sm f th wrld's fnst thnkrs. Th wrld s fll f dts, nd s y hv th chc f bng n f thm, r bcmng trrbly lntd nd brllnt. f y rlly blv tht y'r wll-djstd, chncs r y'r mrn.
Blndly grng wth ny knd f cnvntnl wsdm, wtht vn ttmptng t s why thrs mght fnd dsplsr n hvng t dl wth sch mndlss cmplcncy, dsn't vn rgstr s th xprssn f n pnn. nd gvn th nmbr f mlcntnts, cyncs, skptcs, nd msnthrps th Bngrs hv gvn nnmrbl pgs f lp-srvc t vr th yrs, ths whl ntn smcks f "d s w sy, nt s w d" nstnct. Ys, mn cnsrshp. Stll, ffxng scrlt lttrs mght sm lk fn t sdst.
hv lttl pprctn fr dsmvwlng thrs' wrds. Th sntmnt hs bn xprssd bfr: t s n nslt t th rdrs f ths blg wh cnsdr thmslvs cpbl f dcdng fr thmslvs wht s r s nt pprprt. mgn tht. Crtnly mny cmmnts r dsrvng f dltn, bt mr rgrs stndrds shld b stblshd t nsr blnc. ny sggstn tht dts hr hv bn nbsd s n trght dnl f th fcts. vry dt mst b bsd, r ls th dt wldn't ccr. Ths prjdcs wth rspct t crtn ss f lngg, thgh rgbly vld, r rflctns f th mdrtr's bst jdgmnt, bt hrs s ccsnlly rghtsly ndgnnt jdgmnt, rgrdlss f hw sh ss t. Fr Pt's sk, thrw n th vwl lrdy. D'h!
Smn skd nt t lng g f BngBng hd jmpd th shrk. wld sy tht, f t hdn't lrdy hppnd, tdy's th dy. Dn't mnd m, thgh. Th fct tht dsgr wth ths plcy s prf ngh tht 'm dsgrbl. Stll, cndscndng lst sch s ths nly mbldns th nmy. W'r nt chldrn r trrrsts, lthgh sm f th cmmnts wld sm t ndct thrws. Mst f ths plcs shld b cmmn sns t nyn by nw, bt sm f thm r jst pln bsrd. Bynd tht, nlss hlf r mr f BngBng's rdrshp r dscrts lsrs, th rst f s shldn't b sbjctd t sntty prmrs n th mrts f pltly nggng n sntlss dscrs. Lk sd, t's yr rght t pst whtvr y lk, bt s s scrfng dwn bzrr nml prts n rlty TV shws. t my hv nt bn yr m t nct sch dscssn, bt y mst hv knwn tht t wld. Wh hs th mrl hgh grnd?
s t th ssrtn tht th prctc f dsmvwlmnt "msclts" th clprt, nc gn mst rstrndly dsgr. f ftr rdng dsmvwld cmmnt m nbl t ndrstnd why sch n ctn ws bsltly ncssry, ls cnfdnc tht th prctc s whl s f ny s. s s vdncd hr, knw tht m nt ln n ths stmtn. Lkws, f m ffndd by ny thr rdr's cmmnts, bcm vn mr pst tht my nds wrn't ctrd t wth th srt f nl bsssvnss w'v grwn t xpct frm Thnts, th Md f Dth. Jst kddng, Trs. Y'r ctchng lttl ht hr, nd t's nt ntrly ndsrvd. Snrky mds wh cmpln f thrs' snrknss r dm dzn. Bt hy, 'm jst n thnkng hmn. wn't bthr crftng lst f sggstns... wll mrly stt my pnn nd mv n.
n lst thng, rspctflly. ccrdng t Wkpd, Xn sd f rrtbl vwl syndrm: "th dlg stys, bt th msnthrp lks rdcls, nd th mtnl stng s ntrlzd." Ths wld sm t mply tht vry prsn wh hs flln vctm t sd dsmvwlmnt s msnthrp, whch s vry bt s rdcls. Cntlss dsrspctfl cmmnts hv vdd Trs's scrpls y, whl svrl nncs ns g th wy f th spttd vwl. Bh-dm-CHNG! ky, th spttd wl sn't xtnct yt... cldn't hlp t."
nd ntd th sm gng f ppl cmmntng vr nd vr. "Tkn" n prtclr hs fld dy wth hs nn cmmnts. Spprtd by th Mdrtr wh fnds hm msng.
BTW jst fr th rcrd. BB hs ftrd my blg "Wlcm t Wllywrld" twc. Jly lst yr wth pst clld Th Crk, Th Thf, Hs Wf & th thr €35.5 Mlln nd gn fr mnths g wth Nkd lds Rdng th Prs Mtr. Y'll ntc ws "rd" n bth. à bntôt, Mlclm Lmb, Prs.
As someone who knew nothing about this dismvowelling thing until five minutes ago, my unbiased first take:
I love it.
Metronicity, bear in mind than on most sites with moderated comments, if the moderator objected to your post, it wouldn't be posted at all?
For me the issue here is, not how you moderate -- which seems very generous -- but *when*. It seems possible that because the 'how' is generous, you might get tempted to use the process more often than actually necessary. But I don't see much evidence of that yet.
...okay, now I've seen a post (in another article) that seems to have been devowelled because it was expressing an *opinion* that many people would have found offensive. I'm pretty certain it would have been wrong to moderate it via deletion.
OTOH, I found it offensive.
OTTH, people responded to it reasonably and the original poster responded with an apology.
OTFH, is this a slippery slope? Does it encourage moderators to censor based on their opinion?
Deep issues. I'll go away and think about it.
Shutting up now.
A slender majority of members in the American Psychiatric Psychological Association have voted in favor of a resolution that forbids members from aiding in torture.
A slender majority, eh? So that means should you decide to seek treatment from a psychologist, you've got about a 50-50 chance of getting some torture-supporting lowlife instead of an actual therapist.
I'll keep that in mind should I need such services in the future.
@ shdwfrbrd
'm strln. W tnd t cll spd spd. W'r nt hng p n bng "nc" r "plt" spclly. W cll t s w s t. Jst mks m nt bthr wth cmmntng f thy'r gng t tk ffns t wht ws prtty nncs cmmnt, n my pnn. stll fl th sm wy - hw cn y cnfs "psychtrsts" nd "psychlgsts" whn y'r cmmntng n "th cmplcty f P mmbrs n cndctng trtr-bsd ntrrgtn t Gntnm By nd thr mrcn nd mrcn-ffltd scrt prsns"? nd y'll ntc t's bn mndd.
Thn f crs y hv th "clqnss" hr. Whch sms t b ctvly ncrgd by th mdrtrs. Trs Nlsn Hydn gng s fr s t ld srl cmmntr "Tkn" s "msng".
" thnk y rd s wll. Shll w pll?" h drcts t m bv nd thn fllws p wth "Mtrncty: d y wsh t rcnsdr?" Whch th Mdrtr lts sld. ncrgng nthr t dd "Pll th trll" (vry drl 'm sr) nd nthr "r y cld try bng fnny, Mtrncty, bt thnk tht wld b mr f strtch fr y." gn sh lts tht n thrgh s wll.
Whch mks bt f mckry f thr clbrtd "Mdrtn Plcy" wldn't y sy?
Bt dn't rlly gv rt's rs. C'st l v.
@Metronicity
I'm adamant that no-one should be moderated for their opinion. But (at the other end of the spectrum) I can't be arsed to participate in a conversation where people are slinging insults rather than swapping ideas.
I'm not sure that any of those comments you point to should have been moderated: they weren't especially funny, or interesting, but they weren't offensive either, except maybe for calling you a troll. (Anyone that's been disemvowelled must surely be a troll: wrong, but an easy mistake to make.)
I suppose that only the moderator can say for sure why your original post was devowelled. I did think, though, that it was closer to insult-slinging than idea-swapping. (As a plain-speaking Aussie I'm guessing that you won't mind me saying that.)
FWIW, I wouldn't have devowelled your second post -- I thought it made a fair point about the moderation system, although I'm not sure I actually agree with it. If that post was devowelled because you "hadn't calmed down yet", then I'm uncomfortable about that -- although they do warn us up front in the moderation policy.
And at the end of the day, it's their site.
naw, he's just rude. Antinous is owned an apology. If it isn't forthcoming, sanction should be applied.
Manners aren't for everybody, but there are places where they are required. Like here.
"Mnnrs rn't fr vrybdy bt thr r plcs whr thy r rqrd"
thnk 'll gt T-Shrt prntd wth tht n th frnt. Thnks!
Myb th bck f t shld hv brd?
goodbye, Metronicity.
Metronicity,
Your original comment was rude. Your recent comments are off-topic. If you can't play by the rules, go elsewhere.
Okay, that makes my mind up. Disemvowelling: a first-class concept that regrettably makes it tempting to moderate more than neccessary.
*I'm* not on topic, but nobody is disemvowelling *me*. (Touch wood). My hypothesis: Metronicity is being disemvowelled for past sins.
This is not a rant, just my feelings. It's your site. You are free to do moderation your way, obviously.