Human rights worker: JFK's secondary screening procedures are "human rights abuses"
No one who had been detained knew precisely why they were there. A few people were led into private rooms; others were questioned out in the open at desks a few feet from the crowd and then allowed to pass through customs. Some were sent to another section of the holding area with large computer screens and cameras, and then brought back. The uninformed consensus among the detainees was that some people would be fingerprinted, have their irises scanned and be sent back to the countries from which they had disembarked, regardless of citizenship status; others would be fingerprinted and allowed to stay; and the unlucky ones would be detained indefinitely and moved to a more permanent facility.I once got pulled out for secondary screening at the Australian border. They brought my pregnant wife a chair and a glass of water, were friendly and professional and prompt, and never made me feel anything other than welcome. They thoroughly investigated me without ever making me feel like a crook. It took all of 10 minutes. It doesn't have to be this way. At JFK Airport, Denying Basic Rights Is Just Another Day at the OfficeThere was one British tourist in the group. Paul (also not his real name) was traveling with three friends who had passed through customs soon after their plane landed and were waiting for him on the other side of the metal barrier; he suspected he had been detained because of his dark skin. When he asked if he could go to the bathroom, one of the guards said, "I wouldn't." "What if someone has to?" I asked. "They will just have to hold it," the guard responded with a smile. Paul began to cry. I watched as he, over the course of four hours, went from feeling exuberant about his trip to New York to despising the entire country. "I speak the Queen's English," he said to me. "I'm third-generation British. I came to America because I've always wanted to come here, and now they've got me so scared that all I want to do is go home. We're paying for your stupid war anyway."
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I've noticed a trend of BB posts talking more and more about breaches of civil liberty. I've seen more and more posts on the bbc and other major news sites about similar breaches. I know the last few posts on BB have sparked a few people to be more than a bit upset.
A few of them started to hit the nail on the head though. You can't just stand there and watch this go by. The mentality that starts in the airport security will sprout elsewhere. It will damage the reputation of the US far beyond that of what it already has. It will make life within the US a paranoia state. What was once viewed as a fore front in so many fields is now becoming more and more a place of fear.
I feel somewhat safe in Canada but I have many friends in the US and the US is not far from my door step.
Instead of posting all the ways this makes you angry, maybe this time we can get some uselfull discussion and post about all the ways you can actually do something.
Lists of people who need to hear about this. Petitions, information sessions, anything. You are allowed to speak up still, the internet makes it easier for many people to speak up. I think it's time more people did.
it's a pity. I would have loved to go to the US, but stories like this are enough to kill that desire dead in its tracks. this is not how a modern democratic society should treat anyone, regardless of background.
It's amazing: over the course of the last 20 years the world's perception of America as a force for good and a bastion of liberty has been replaced by fear, loathing and contempt.
The perception was wrong of course - the US had been a sponsor of terror around the world for decades (spectacularly so in South America, Africa and the Middle East) - but it existed, and acted as a first line of defence against those who wished her harm.
Its not "America, fuck yeah!" anymore its "America, fuck you!"
I always wanted to visit the US, go travelling, meet the people and such. i swear that isnt going to happen for a while.
Just remembered that when i was a kid, what, 20 years ago, i wrote a (probably rubbish) short story spoof about how the USA had built a wall round its shoreline and degraded to Southern States morality and Civil War tech.
sound familiar? :/
Oh, it ended with the UK pumping the atlantic over the wall and turning the US into a giant boating pond XD you have been warned hehehe
The USA is in effect building a wall to surround itself.
The shame of it is that if they keep up this DHS TFA crap then the rest of the world is going to start helping to build the wall too.
It's a shame that the USA has stopped even trying to pretend that it's the land of the free and the home of the brave.
terrified prisoners.
it's a damned shame.
I wouldn't come to the US if you paid me to. Literally. As I am in a group which is likely to be low-risk for hauling out of line, being white, nearly 50, and the only fanatical group I am associated with is the Quakers....
The UK has big problems too, don't get me wrong. The increasing crackdown on the right to take photographs without explicit permission from landowners or the people you are snapping... the huge increase in CCTV surveillance... the joining up of government departments which undermines your right to privacy... these concern me very much here too.
I agree with the first poster... we need to discuss ways to combat the changes which have done more to undermine our freedoms than any terrorist could have achieved.
What worries me more than anything is how quickly things appear normal to most people... how quickly they accept the infringements on their liberties. How ready they are to believe the best of officials, and to excuse what they do.
As I am active in Second Life, I'd suggest a Second Life event, and if there is interest here, would help to organise it too.
I would occasionally head to the US much like many Canadians do, and I was to head there recently but the more and more stories I read about how DHS handles the foreigners makes me stay home. Chances are I would get across fine, and come back fine, but then I cannot take the chance I would be locked away, or my stuff confiscated forever, or whatever craziness could happen. Probability points to me winning the lottery before any of this would happen to me, but can I take the chance that I win the DHS lottery? Even for such a small risk, I won't take that chance.
I was born and raised in the US untill my late 20's I went expat on day three of Iraq invasion-II, not that I loved iraq but the invasion seemed contrived, I was already set up to leave by then anyway. I came back once but being exposed to the weird random police terror makes it hard to consider even coming back to visit family. Thanks to fuel prices I at least have a good excuse for not visiting.
I'm fifty and British. My whole life has been informed and moulded by the States: Yogi Bear, Disney, Peanut butter, Mad magazine, Reader's Digest, Rolling Stone, The Doors, The Blues, Bruce, Southside Johnny, Steve McQueen, Hill St Blues, American Graffiti,Red tag Levis, Wranglers, Docksiders, The Ramones, Steinbeck, FitzGerald, Elmore Leonard, The Furry Freak Bros, Mark Spitz, Mondavi, great Americans I met at university and travelling and working. And so on and on. It's the country that we know best without having been there. For many Brits it's a mixture of love and admiration with a touch of affectionate exasperation. Maybe how the Greeks felt about the Romans.
Now I've got the time and the money, you know, I don't think I'll bother going. There's tens of thousands of us. I know Europeans who want to change planes in Mexico or Canada to get to say the Caribbean. Anywhere rather than the States.
In sorrow and anger.
@ FEE
I'm not a second life person. Too little time for the first one I'm in.
But the event sounds like a good idea. The more people you can get involved the better.
Definitely sitting idly by and watching your liberties leave is of no use. Yet it can happen so fast when you're not paying attention. Now though it's fast approaching a point where something must happen. If it doesn't then it could get very bad.
Still looking for suggestions on who can actually do something about it.
Anybody have contacts for TSA reps. Where are the complaint departments that everyone can send letters to. Who are the major politicians who back this kind of security theatre? How can they be told to smarten up or lose their votes? Looking for real ideas here. Change the minds of those who have power. Don't just sit there and reminisce about lost liberty.
I don't think we can prevent the police state by letting it deter people. I know, it's not worth it for a single person to risk everything at the chance of being randomly detained, and that the simple act of traveling despite these obstacles really shouldn't be a political act, but we need things to change, and we need to do more to make change than simply wash our hands clean of it.
The obvious channels: giving to the ACLU, voting this November (and whenever else elections happen), making noise about this issue during elections.
Things that sound good but are way too dangerous: I really like the idea of clogging the system so it can't work, the sort of highly-functional protest, but I think that the risks inherent are clogging airport security everywhere (everyone flys without ids, etc) wouldn't pay off well.
The really nice thing to do would be to teach the appropriate statistics to everyone so that they know how useless anti-terrorism matters are, but I can't imagine we'll be able to forcibly enroll congress in a stats class.
That's all I can come up with at 2:30am, and there doesn't seem a lot that internationals can do (maybe petition their respective governments to petition the US/make things difficult for the US otherwise?). Anyone have any other thoughts?
American immigration officials win all three medals in the Olympic competition in the category of causing the most fear, irrationality, and paranoia among travelers throughout the world. Burma, a pure dictatorship, has less of the Kafka experience for the average traveler. If George Orwell were writing today, he might well find a way to smuggle his essays out of a secret American prison, though, when caught, he'd be tried on subversion charges.
Y r ll chldrn. Ppl dn't gt dprtd r trnd rnd t th prt f ntry fr cprcs rsns. By th wy bfr y strt lmbstng m I'm still pissed I have to show ID to get on a plane.
gss th fct tht mllns f frgnrs vst th S nd ncntr fw prblms hs scpd yr ntc.
Cmprng th S t Brm s t bst spcs rgmnt. Ths knd f dstrctns lng wth th "clr f hs skn" cmmnt n th rtcl ndrct lgtmt cmplnts. t ws nvr mntnd why Pl ws dtnd. Th lp t rcl bs s nsbstnttd.
People do have legitimate complaints about the way it's handled. I've been asked to go through a complete screening a couple of times even though at the time I was a federal agent.
S lt's clm dwn n th hystrcs nd pst lgtmt rgmnts. Nt th drvl f ntllctlly chllngd ndvdls wh hv nvr ncntrd rl pprsn.
God bless America...she needs it badly.
@#1 (Prunk): That's partly why our gracious host wrote Little Brother.
@#12: The best protest for this particular issue is probably simply not to fly. Bankrupt a few airlines and TSA will have to start laying people off, too. Businesses have already cut way down on travel due to a) electronic alternatives on the net, b) fee-gouging by the airlines and c) the hassles of travel. Larger companies with corporate jets have taken to using them for regular employee travel.
I very much agree with the people who are making suggestions about constructive things to do with this information to stop problems like this in the future, but I just want to point out that it's a pretty significant step to just spread the word. When stuff like this goes up on BoingBoing, we all hear about it, and just the fact that people know about it and are outraged means something. I say send this to friends, thumb it up on StumbleUpon, whatever. Raising awareness is an important step.
That's an unfortunate story. But, I couldn't help but be somewhat amused/irritated at the overreactions in the comments. The guy in the story "went from feeling exuberant about his trip to New York to despising the entire country." Despising the entire country? Obviously an overreaction, and one not based in reason, but an understandable emotion in his highly-emotional state. It seems that our commenters built even further on the overreaction. Burma? Never ever going to visit the US because of these boogy-man stories? I guess I'd better not even mention el chupacabra, otherwise you'll probably avoid all the Latin-American countries, too.
"Comparing the US to Burma is at best a specious argument."
I'm sorry but this is wrong. #13 is talking only about screening procedures not the Country. It's exactly with your way of thinking that the Bush administration has been able to make USA what it's today.
As many boingboingers before me pointed out, there are already thousands of foreigners who started to think that landing/stop in USA is an unplesant experience like it was till 10 years ago when, travelling to Tokyo from Europe, we needed to stop in Moscow.
Again, I'm not comparing usa with russia as a whole country, I'm just talking about a feeling shared by a growing number of world citizens that dealing with american officials is something we ALL love to avoid...
Militarization of a society is not a smart move to attract tourism...
Stuff like this worries me. I'm going back to the US in a few days to get married, and a bunch of my Australian friends (and family of my fiance) are coming over. I really pray none of them get detained in some sort of scary secret-prison, Russia KGB security scenario.
People who board a plane and disembark in the US should NOT be treated as prisoners. Its nasty enough they way the airlines themselves treat passengers (Cattle anyone?) without being "arrested" with no rights upon your lawful arrival.
Its no wonder the dollar is tanking and no one internationally wants anything to do with America. I'm sure scaring off tourists and generally sh*ting all over international visitors is a great way to get more $$$ back into the US. Great strategy. Seriously.
Its actually quite difficult sometimes to pluck out just what exactly it is about foreign nationals that offends Americans in particular, still the more just why the security apparatus has so many brusque and overtly cynical figures that confront the public in a blunt, unsympathetic fashion.
But then again, the public permit themselves excesses which need to be witnessed to be believed. To say the least, if everyone were polite and charming with one another you couldn't get people through the system. The sheer number of people passing through airports is mind boggling.
Its easy to be cowed. I would say most complaints arise out of traveller inexperience. And by that, I mean certain freedoms you take for granted may not have a favourable reception elsewhere in the world. Having your travel documents in pristine order and a readiness to place any spending emergencies on your credit card are a must. Know what you're doing and where you're going. Chalk it up to experience if you hit any bumps in the road getting to the U.S., its less likely they'll be corrupt with the heightened security than in a dictatorship.
The same limits to freedom are in vigour in the UK or Canada, though much less publicized if anyone cared to notice. Since 9/11 police, customs and security officials have become much more authoritarian in their stance and that hasn't let up. Its as if everyone has become a participant in a cold war style mentality. I truly wonder whether vigilance requires this kind of tyrannical style and if it will completely blow out or become a fixture of domestic politics in the U.S.
So innocent people find being detained ( = complete loss of freedom) hateful, and naturally hate those who have so detained them. Of course why they are detained is often not explained to them.
Where's the over-reaction? Is this not a "legitimate" comment? Could the US Authorities be aware of why people would want to harm Americans, so that America must take such steps to protect herself? Treat all visitors as threats?
Will America continue to follow violent foreign policies that require police lock-downs of parts of American daily life? Why? Who benefits from the violence?
Millions may come to the US still, but many on business have no choice but to do so and would actually rather not, and IIRC tourism is way way down.
#17, I'm not very surprised by Paul's reaction. First impressions count for a lot, and Customs and Immigration make a big first impression on visitors, especially jet-lagged ones.
In 1989, a couple of friends and I drove all the way up from Houston to Toronto, stopping only once, in Tupelo, and we had various zines and a few video mixtapes we planned to give to a friend in New York after visiting Toronto for a couple of days. We figured to cross at Buffalo / Ft. Erie instead of Niagara Falls like all the other tourists, since it might be quicker. Then on to Hamilton and and Toronto.
Obviously, we were pretty ragged and looked it, so the Canadian customs guards pulled us over and searched the car, with dogs even. They didn't like our zines and thought the videos were porn (one tape had cussing muppets and a 30-second clip from some movie with Johnny Wadd in Hell). Worse, the dog sniffed old marijuana fumes from when some friends and I smoked weed in my car a month or so earlier. All a bit sloppy, but harmless.
When they found a few seeds from a tree my car was parked under, they claimed we were smuggling drugs and did the good cop / bad cop bit with us to make us "confess." To this day I remember their names: Davies, the middle-aged bad cop and Bahnhof, about my age, the sort of good cop. May their remaining lives be short and miserable.
When I stupidly admitted to smoking pot, they threatened to call my boss at a large aerospace company and tell him I'd done drugs. (It was Saturday, thus an empty threat). I felt jerked around like a puppet. To head off law-and-order concern trolls, I should add we were polite, if exhausted and scared.
They finally confiscated the videos and whatever zines they could find, socked us for 50 bucks Canadian for "using a vehicle to smuggle pornography into Canada" and kicked us out of the country.
We spent the night in Niagara Falls, washed up, changed shirts, sanitized the car and crossed into Canada with no trouble.
For years afterwards, I wished all of Canada ill. When the Lake Meech Accords threatened to collapse (in 1991?) I practically jumped for joy.
But, aside from the last few minutes of remembering and telling the above, I'm pretty much over it. But I am not surprised at all over Paul's reaction.
This really has to stop.
#18 said: "I'm sorry but this is wrong. #13 is talking only about screening procedures not the Country." That is correct. Of course it makes no sense to compare politically the Burmese generals with the American government. The point is what happens when you are screened at an airport in any country.
The reports from travelers are consistent. Screening in American airports has become highly confrontational, by official with nearly unlimited power to detain, accompanied each person coming into the country is somehow a criminal.
It is the unaccountable power and attitude of American immigration officials that is disturbing. No one denies that there is a legitimate need to screen people coming into a country. But the way America is going about this is not advancing their best interest. It is hardly America-bashing to say that a friend has a problem. America has the equivalent of a serious rage problem at its borders and is in denial.
All i want to say is that i love the USA and its people, and no customs official can keep me from coming there over and over again. :-)
I actually did jump for joy when Meech collapsed.
Yeah that's the "old-style" border hassle. Still available for Official use, too. We've all been there, though I have never been denied admittance to any country.
I think this is more about TSA techniques, which seem to be fairly new and a little rougher(?!).
I'm just still a little amazed to hear Americans (of all people) saying that folks should just "grin & bear it" in response to what appears to be a mechanistically-determined deprivation of their personal freedom. That's not the "American Style" I know and love...nether the detention nor the advice.
But hey it's your country. And it's probably the best advice. I hardly ever visit cause it's always tough to get the dogs and the sled through Customs...
I'm an Ozzie, have been traveling on planes a Lot since I was a kid. I left the US on September 10, 2001 from Hawaii, woke up the next morning and the world just went nuts.
The only times I've encountered secondary security screenings were in Australia, once when a customs dog smelled meat in my supposedly vegetarian pizza from Pizza Hut in the USA (I was planning to re-heat it when I got home. What can I say, I'm a college student). The lady dog-handler was politely insistent on binning the pizza, probably doing my health a favour anyway.
The 2nd encounter was when I was leaving a small, regional domestic airport in the state where I live. I was flying to Sydney to meet my Dad and got randomly selected for an explosives check by one of those wand-devices. I held my arms up, the guy waved the wand close against my clothing and let me go.
I have lots of Family in the USA, my brother and his wife just had a kid, my younger sister just started Uni and my Father and Step-Mom live in a nice house in Hawaii. I'm not planning on visiting them Anytime soon, I don't feel like having to get finger-printed so I can use traveler's check, I don't feel like running the risk of losing a bunch of money on pre-planned travel and accommodation just because DHS can't get its act together. I'm white, educated, English is my first language, and don't feel like coming to the country I used to consider my second home, because its gotten screwed up.
Americans, you need to realise first impressions matter. And that international tourists often really don't think your country special enough to risk the kind of treatment that is becoming routine for foreign nationals. Remember what happened when Brazil decided to start fingerprinting Americans, because America was doing it to foreigners? What mass indignation that caused in the US??
You need to make this an election issue, you need to respond to newspaper editors and television stations when they run stories about this (if they have the guts to do so) and say you're unhappy about this knee-jerk reactionary and inefficient screening. See America as a business and remember that one happy customer tells three others, but an unhappy one tells ten.
I Like Americans, but I'm starting to abhor your America.
I expect things will get worse if McCain is elected. Unfotuntately, I expect things will get worse if Obama is elected, too. Neither of them give a damn about civil liberties. And most Americans don't give a damn about anything the government does as long as gas prices don't go up and their God-given right to buy Chinese made crap at Wal Mart isn't threatened.
BRIANH - You say this does not get done for capricious reasons. Well even if I grant you that (and given the reams of stories about TSA behaviour and not even enforcing their own rules, I do not grant you that) there is no need to treat people selected for screening, for allegedly non-capricious reasons, as if they are guilty before proven so, to treat them like scum, to treat them as if they have no human rights.
Not letting someone go to the toilet? Equals inhumane, cruel and unusual punishment - and at this point, punishment for being selected, not for being guilty of anything. There is no excuse for treating anybody like this. Ever. This is what gives USA such a bad rep. You could stop and screen and detain as many people as you liked if you did it in a consistent way, and treated people properly. But no, the USA treats (some) arrivals as suspicious sub-humans to be viciously punished. How can anyone be surprised nobody wants to visit you any more, and holds many of yur systems and practices in contempt?
I'll echo Cory's comment about it not needing to be this way.
I was pulled for secondary screening in Canada, about a week after the chemical weapons scare when the airports were still on high alert.
The airport official was friendly, courteous and explained exactly why I'd been pulled (even though the reason was 'because we have to search foreign citizen's at random' it was still nice to be told this). I was asked whether I minded being questioned and patted down in front of other passengers and was offered the option to have it done in the security office.
When the official was satisfied that I wasn't a danger he thanked me and wished me a good trip. My already high opinion of Canada went up further.
That being said, is there a notable difference between TSA staff in different airports? If JFK are particularly bad, it might be worth flying into the country elsewhere.
How much does it cost to get from Toronto to New York over land? Are there bus or train links? Because flying into Canada and crossing the land border would make a pretty good point about the appalling behaviour of the TSA.
I was recently singled out for extra screening in the UK. The officers who carried out my questioning and physical examination were very courteous and professional. The experience was the barest of inconveniences, and the respect which they showed me left me with nothing but a positive impression.
The current political climate in the US specifically undermines this sort of behavior on the part of government authorities. The rise of a political power that belittles the role of government, uses the lowest forms of fearmongering to retain power, and generally acts no more responsible that a ten-year-old with a bb gun has created an atmosphere of sadism and irresponsibility which trickles right down (unlike unsustainable tax cuts) to the lowest levels of federal government.
As a proud taxpayer and citizen, I look eagerly forward to electing Barak Obama, who, if deeply flawed, at least represents a return of essential gravity, intellect and maturity. And I dread the notion that my fellow citizens could be so fearful and infantilized that they might choose to elect McCain, who's allied himself with the most corrosive, irrational and essentially murderous elements of American society.
@#14: I can't tell if you're stunningly blind or just hopelessly biased by your position.
In either case, last week, I was behind behind a non-English-speaking visitor from Italy. While most of the TSA agents shouted at him to produce his boarding pass (although none thought to actually show him what they were talking about), another simply muttered "why'd ya come here if ya didn't speak English."
Since this was Texas, I didn't raise a fuss. (Didn't want to get shot.) But I did wait at the end to make sure he got through okay.
maybe it takes a german (me) to say it:
I know a fascist government when i see one....
DHS probably has the yellow star in preparation for "theese damn ay-rab terrorists"
i cannot as much as i would like to puke!
One time one of my immigration forms had a mistake (which had been made by the embassy unbeknown to me) and I was sent to secondary screening at JFK.
It was a huge room full of mostly dark people, everyone sitting down on chairs and on the floor with somber looks on their faces. It was a very depressing area. All the officers walked around with an air of superiority. They were mostly just talking among each other and laughing, no one seemed to be doing any real work.
At one point one of the officers looked at all of us in the room and with a big smile on his face he said "is any of you here legally?" and they all laughed. I raised my hand. This apparently caught them by surprise and they waved me up to the counter. I explained what happened, they looked at my paperwork, typed some stuff into a computer, said "go ahead and mail this form to this address so that it gets corrected." And that was it, I was in. I wonder how long I would have been in there had I not been gutsy to stand out.
I now have a green card and I fly through immigration, but I hope to never have to see that room again. I feel for those people. It's dehumanizing.
Because of an earlier, and innocent, screw-up, I now get the secondary interview /every single time/ I pass through Heathrow.
Much the same as described here.
Being a member of the Commonwealth of Nations is worthless now, by the way. Just in case anyone still cared about that old thing.
I do a fair amount of travelling, both for work and for fun. I just try make sure I don't pass through the US or the UK when making connecting flights.
@1 I think our biggest problem is an uninformed, uncaring voting population and a rather corrupt political process. I think to many Americans this behavior *seems* like good, solid security. Any attempts to reverse this course will look like being soft on terrorism.
It's similar to how it is impossible to stop locking people up for having a joint. Yeah, a lot of people, including law enforcement think it's a waste of time. But advocating otherwise leads to election year charges of "being soft on crime."
As long as the voters are stupid, and the media completely fails to honestly report on issues, this is what we will get.
the hiring and retention of mouth breathing, racist idiots is quite deliberate. Those who have merrily hijacked the USA for their won profit this past decade especially depend upon Americans remaining ignorant and suspiciously hostile to SOMEONE. "Furriners" fit the bill nicely. They don't want Americans making friends outside the barbed wire since then they might start comparing notes and learn just how bad Americans have it. They don't want non-Americans visiting for the same reasons.
Hatred of the Other is a vital tool for keeping power. Obviously Obergruppenfuhrer Chertoff understands this.
BrianH: Perhaps they were detained for legitimate reasons, perhaps they weren't. I think that the important matter here is how they were treated. If you are being detained, you should have access to a bathroom, and the reason that you are being detained at the least.
That being said, I doubt that all of them were being held with legitimate reasons. It still stands that they should be treated like human beings.
I haven't travelled to the states since 9/11 (My birthday by the way, probably one flag up for me), but I did travel between the States and Canada in 1990 and I couldn't believe the difference. Leaving the States into Canada as a Brit meant I had to talk to a nice lady and the end of the desk, it was all old-skool British politeness.
When I went back to the States I declared I was British at the checkpoint, the official yelled 'Brit' and pointed to a building without even looking at me.
I walked to the door and found a small immigration room stuffed full of sweaty Mexicans, a giant Eagle crest was on the wall and the guy behind the desk was wearing mirrored sunglasses (This is not made up).
He interrogated me with short sharp demands, never looking up from the form, every time he asked a question that seemed a bit ambigous and I asked him to clarify exactly what he meant, I got a grunt of displeasure and the real feeling I had better smarten up or get some serious treatment.
I really felt like I was being given a once over by the Gestapo.
I'm white British, clear accent with a brand new passport, so God knows how they would treat someone with dark skin and poor English skills.
That was 18 years ago so I can imagine what it's like now.
I know it's a tough job, but a little politeness goes a long-long way. I can't believe that this frontline attitude isn't supported by the government.
America has become the Falty Towers of the world.
I wonder what would happen if a list of immigration thugs found its way to the internet?
A few weeks ago, my wife (not a citizen, has an H1B), and I were coming back from a short vacation abroad. She got flagged for a secondary screening. This was in Philadelphia.
We went to the room. There was one other person being screened, a few waiting. They asked my wife where she lived, what she did, etc. They gave a rather rude "merry christmas, have a nice life," handed her passport back, and that was it.
There were thousands of non-residents going through customs at that time. When you realize the volume of the people they screen, the language difficulties, the tired travelers (who aren't always the nicest people) you have to feel some empathy for the customs agents.
I'm sure there are some horrible situations. But, its not all like that.
Immigration is a very complicated process. The paperwork, the forms, the fees, the deadlines. Its not easy. But, if you know and follow the rules it works.
I'm not apologizing for DHS and CBP, and I'm not happy with the situation. But I certainly get the sense that some of these accounts are embellished.
Tyranny did not die along with WWII - it is alive and well in America. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, and we've dropped the ball. I am ashamed of what America has turned into. I am ashamed to be an American.
To those that would tell me to move somewhere else: It is not patriotic to blindly follow your leaders; True patriotism lives within those of us who dissent. Tyrants live behind the word "patriotism"... Case-in-point: Could the "Patriot Act" have been any more of a misnomer?
Belgium (and anyone else wondering whether there's a difference among airports) - the answer is a definite yes.
As part of my work, I send dozens of Arab travelers to the U.S. every year, and not one flies into or through JFK. Dulles is mildly better, but if you can go in through Atlanta, O'Hare, Logan, or a west coast airport you're far better off.
I do wish people wouldn't extrapolate the horror stories they hear - some of which are absolutely factual, some of which have doubtless been dramatized to some extent, but all of which combined involve a very, very small number of travelers - and come out with "I'm never visiting that Fascist Hellhole." For one thing, it trivializes real hellholes, which very much exist.
My partner is Egyptian, with a passport that raises some flags (travel to dicey places), and we regularly have to enter and leave the U.S. Almost invariably, he is finished with passport control before me and has never had any problems. On the other hand, we got into a screaming match once in Amsterdam with an overly officious guard; does that make the Netherlands a Must to Avoid? Hardly.
He was told he couldn't go to the bathroom and he started to cry??
IANAD, but I think he might have emotional problems. Is that the best horror story the guy could come up with?
I agree that we're not making friends here (what security type ever does?), but come on.
Tell ya what, Moon, imagine that he was not crying in terror of his life. Picture this alternate possible scenario.
You go to a country that has for years stood in your mind for the defender of liberty and justice. On arrival get hauled off to a room full of strung out people and armed guards.
At this point, two interpretations of what's going on are possible - the guards could just be your standard issue bored security guards, and the long wait just due to standard issue bureaucratic inefficiency, or they could be vicious little flunky wardens for a nation so terrified of its own shadow it's volunteered to turn the whole country into a prison. You don't want to admit this to yourself, but of course the hints keep cropping up subconsciously.
You make some little request of one of the guards, and he responds in a way that's so classically Hollywood-petty-prison-warden that any positive interpretation you've managed to put on the whole situation falls away.
Suddenly, you're not in the land of the free anymore. Suddenly, you've saved up a year's worth of vacation and money to visit a little tinpot police state.
At this point, it is normal for good people to cry. Not necessarily even for themselves - he could have been crying for you, Moon, the citizen-lobster not noticing himself being slowly boiled into dinner.
I have lived in the US for 8+ years. I pay my taxes, obey the law and have a wonderful wife (American) and daughter (born here).
Organizations like the USCIS and border/customs agents scare the hell out of me. Without any over-sight the can detain or deport me, breaking up my family, on a whim, a mis-guided sense of what their powers are, or through sheer incompetence.
In a bureaucracy like that things like justice and rationality are elements of luck and not merit.
Let me repeat for emphasis: These people SCARE me - and as far as things go I'm white, speak English as a first language, don't stand out, and from a friendly EU country - and these people still scare me.
@29 - You can take an overnight bus from Toronto to New York on Megabus (megabus.com). It's super cheap (sometimes only $1) if you book a few months ahead. You have to get off the bus at Buffalo and go through immigration there, but they're nowhere NEAR TSA standard.
I do not advise taking the train. I did it once, and there's only one per day, leaving at 8:30 AM, and it takes 14 hours. It's a total waste of a day. Also, the Amtrak staff are really rude (compared to ViaRail) - the train ended up running over two hours late and nobody told the passengers - and the border screening process is pretty harsh. The time I took it, they kicked two Buddhist monks off the train! Seriously, Buddhist monks!
@41 - If someone held you in a room for four hours without explanation and denied you the use of a bathroom (and you really had to pee), wouldn't you start to cry?
The American immigration/travel system is just fucked up. I personally do not travel there if I can help it.
Who's likelier to fix this mess - McCain or Obama? There seems to be no chance McCain will fix this, but there may be a chance that Obama improve the DHS (ideally by dismantling it).
#40 makes the most intelligent statement of the bunch.
Different airports different attitudes. I've always heard good things about Atlanta but my experience is with Dulles which is OK.
US immigration law presumes everybody to be an intending immigrant until they prove otherwise. When you get your visa at an embassy/consulate, you are just getting permission to apply for admission to enter the US. The BCBP official (formerly INS) actually makes the final determination at the port of entry. If he/she thinks you need some additional checking, you get referred to "secondary."
Secondary is a full of miserable (and desperate) people who managed to get on a plane with a counterfeit or fraudulently obtained visa. They all have to wait around until the airline can send them back to their home countries. The BCBP guys (admittedly many of them are not the most educated of individuals) have to deal with a constant deluge of lies and protestations of innocence. I image it gets old after a while and may color your attitude. Especially at the bigger high volume airports like JFK.
As far as infrastructure in the waiting area, have you ever been to a US federal building with public services that was nice after about 5 years of use?
Over the years, I have been involved in organizing numerous research-oriented conferences on software-related topics. Since 9/11, I've only worked on conferences to be held outside the US. There's just too much risk that speakers and other participants won't be able to get their visas or will have other problems getting to the US. There's also a growing number of people (see above) who simply don't want to come to the US. We're seeing the same phenomenon among potential graduate school applicants: the US may have the top schools, but Canada, Australia, and the UK are increasingly successful at recruiting those students.
In the past, McDonald's was the employer of last resort. Now it's the TSA.
The Airlines do crap like this? Then they're crying about how hard it is on them? And then our American tax dollars are paying to bail them out?
What load of bullcrap.
Interesting to see some of the reaction here, but less experience of this happening from those of you commenting.
I'm 55, white, British, married to a US Citizen, and was detained at Newark in July. My wife was told to wait elsewhere whilst I was held for an hour and a half, then processed without a word being said to me.
It's the complete lack of explanation and lack of any humanity you get with DHS that makes it just so Kafkaesque.
I can't stop flying to the US due to family connections.
I completely agree that we must do something, but what? I can't vote in the US; the UK has so little influence, and is likely getting to this same state.
I would love to do something to stop things like this, but don't know where to begin. Who can I write? Call? Where do I go?
True Story: I was flying out of LAX a few years ago. I got all the way to the carry-on luggage scanners. After scanning, they gently pulled me aside for a secondary screening. They brought me to an open air cubicle with a chair. 30 seconds later, an agent showed up, saying that they saw something in the x-ray that they didn't recognize, and would I be ok if he went through my bag. I said, "Sure, not a problem." He probed and probed, while asking if it were possible that I'd accidentally brought a lighter with me. I said no, as I'd thoroughly searched my backpack before I packed for the trip.
A minute or so later, he tilts the bag, and out spills an open bag of peanut M&Ms, which bounce, individually, all over the metal counter. It was incredibly embarrassing, as if the universe was saying, "Dude, you eat way too much junk food."
Fortunately, the agent didn't even crack a smile, just kept searching. And, of course, in a tiny pocket inside the backpack was a tiny lighter that I had missed during my initial search. Once found, the agent simply said, "Ok, that's it, you're all set to board your plane, thank you."
Now, I'm unhappy with the entire way the government is handling things, vis-à-vis the terrorism thingie, but I must say that considering all of this, the agent was very polite and efficient and never once said "Fatty" to me, not even under his breath.
I remember going to Vancouver and having to change planes in Sea-Tac Seattle in 2000. Even though we were transit passengers the US immigration still felt it necessary for us to fill out landing cards thereby ensuring every passenger needed to have their card and passport checked. It could be they were afraid some of us would try to sneak out of the Airport into the US, however whenever I've transited in Holland, France and the UK, I have never been required to fill out a landing card to walk across the airport.
The single official assigned to the superfluous checks was both bored and surly, with an attitude that stopped just short of discourtesy. I was left with the distinct impression however of bureaucratic weight being thrown about for the sake of it.
Around 2004 I went to Hawaii where there was a slight delay in getting through the immigration checks that the agent apologised for.
I have however not set foot inside the US since all the extra data mining and biometric measurements became par for the course, because it has that same weight throwing smell to it.
What's worse other countries are watching the US and seeing what they're getting away with in the name of security and copying it. Japan for example used to require all long stay foreigners to be finger printed a practice that had them decried annually by Amnesty International until they finally stopped this practice in 2000. But since December 2007 ANY non Japanese entering Japan will be BOTH finger printed and have their retinas scanned.
If I were held in a room and told I couldn't pee, the first thing I would do is go into the corner and do just that. These stories disgust me. The Republicans have given us the TSA. More Boarder Patrol. More DEA. Welcome to America, the land of lemmings. "But how did it happen?" We'll ask as we are gathered up and fed to the open pit of a Final Solution Resort, our bodies ground into paste which will be used as fish farm food.
I've had a few airport security/TSA screening experiences. Thus far they've all been mostly positive.
Background- I'm a white American Orthodox Jew, I wear a kippah/yarmulke all the time. My wife holds dual US/Canadian citizenship.
Summer of 2002- I was waiting at Minneapolis/St. Paul *at the gate* for my transfer. Two TSA reps approached me, and very politely asked if I'd mind being searched. I got a very brisk patdown, and my backpack was searched. They asked me some questions about some stuff in my bag (one guy explained that he'd never seen a pair of tefillin before, and wanted to know what they look like, for future reference. They also explosive-tested my bag), and asked *very* politely and apologetically if they could look under my yarmulke (they could.) The only thing that surprised me was that this took place while I was at the gate, rather than passing through security, as I did at the start of my trip.
Summer 2007- Flying from the US to Canada to get married. At Canadian customs, the border guard asked me the purpose of my visit, I responded that I was getting married (my brother and sister at the next lane over were simultaneously pointing at me and saying "he's getting married!") laughs all around, questions about where/when the wedding was taking place. On the way back home, going through US customs (at Toronto/Pearson) the officer asked my wife and I about how much stuff we were bringing back (we provided a list), informed us that unendorsed checks don't need to be declared, and wished us "a hundred years of happy marriage"
Feb 2008- flew SFO-BOS home from our honeymoon. My wife (who covers her hair for religious reasons, usually with a hat) was singled out to go through a phonebooth-looking puffer device to screen for explosives. They asked me to go through as well, I was told that I could go through the puffer, or "just take that thing off of your head, if that's okay." I don't know why they made the offer to me and not to my wife, but it felt a little arbitrary.
Apparently, I've been lucky, and had minimal hassle so far. The only thing that drives me nuts is having to take my shoes off.
@52: Good luck with that. The techniques used by security personnel the world over are specifically to invoke these sorts of irrational behaviours.
Then, you can be cited for being confrontational or uncooperative. Depending on the country in question, you can expect a nice beating on your genitals, too.
What makes anyone think they have any say in anything that goes on in the interstitial places between countries? Borders are borders, and the rules of order and personhood are subject to any radical reinterpretation. None of us here, citizens or visitors alike, really have much to fall back on in these situations.
Honestly, the best policy is to speak as little as possible and NEVER admit to anything that cannot be verified. Anyone who travels between countries on a regular basis knows that border crossings punish those who are forthright and honest.
It's best to tell them what they want to hear and move on. Terrorists and criminals know this already, and border people are looking for "hinky" behaviour. So keep cool, tell them exactly what they want to hear and admit to nothing.
When I first heard about Americans treating foreigners this way, I thought, "great, wait till we do it them when they visit our countries". I've since changed my mind. I'd be ashamed to have my country's immigration officials treating anyone like this. No, we will simply stop going to America.
Perhaps it's true that only a small percentage of American immigration officials are evil, power tripping, fascist goons. I don't know. But the fact that their superiors, their colleagues, and 300 million other Americans do nothing about it, tells me that (1) they are in agreement with the evil ones (2) they just don't care.
People in Cuba or Burma could say there was nothing they could do. But in a democracy, you don't get to duck the responsibility. Those who do nothing, you all get to share the blame for the things done in your name.
The Stanford Prison Experiment comes to mind as to how these TSA goons are behaving.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment
Americans do not abuse human rights. Therefore, whatever is going on at JFK is not human rights abuse.
I flew out of Minneapolis this past Sunday afternoon, and luckily managed to hold my tongue. My Father (80 years old, 140 pounds and 5'6") was treated like utter crap by TSA in the security area. He has a pacemaker, so he cannot pass through the metal detector. One would have thought this was somehow extraordinary, even though the patdown procedure for the elderly who cannot go through metal detectors is seriously, no big deal. Takes all of one minute, tops.
Instead, he was given the eyeroll, then made to remove everything except his underwear, damn near...in public. By the time the jackass TSA goon was satisfied, he was holding up his pants with one hand, goosebumps all over, his money belt was lying on the floor about 3 feet away, he had no shoes or socks on, his button-down shirt was lying on the chair behind him, and his single carry-on bag looked like it had exploded. I nearly broke into tears, but I knew that getting on the goon's ass certainly wouldn't help. They'd have just detained my Dad and thrown me in the pokey for causing a disturbance.
Maybe THAT is what really made me feel so bad about it. Someone was casually being cruel to my elderly Father, and there was not...one...thing...I could do about it. There's nothing about him that remotely fits any sort of profile. He's slight, looks exactly like Bing Crosby did, and is very sweet and polite to everyone. I seriously would have gleefully spent 5 minutes in a locked, soundproof room with that TSA Goon, if I could have no fear of reprisal or prosecution afterward.
It is no surprise at all that humans often behave badly, when given an inordinate amount of power over their fellows. It is however, deeply saddening.
That's not good. I feel for Paul's loss of innocence.
What upsets me about watching the US’s current deterioration (other than the suffering of individuals like Paul) is the loss of a dream.
Doesn’t matter what kind of cynical, anti-capitalist, left-wing, Chomsky lover you are (and I am) everyone younger than 80 grew up on Star Trek or Omaha Beach or great 70s cinema or Jackson Pollock or DC comics or Huck Finn or On The Road or Elvis or Blondie or insert cultural touchstone here…and somewhere inside many (most?) of us we feel the pull of the American Dream.
And now it’s fading. I still plan on moving to LA for my film career, but this has changed from a joy to a necessity and even though my mother still talks fondly about US soldiers in Brisbane 60 years ago and I still feel a thrill when Superman rescues that kid in the 78 film…despite all that, there are a lot of us who feel…let down.
What happened to America? What’s happening? And how far will it go before it stops? Will she even be recognizable?
Oh yeah, Cory, I was wondering how long ago your Australian trip was?
Because since our media joyfully jumped on the paranoia bandwagon, and led a good chunk of Middle Australia down the reactionary asshole path, with the full encouragement and collusion of our now departed glorious leader John 'Goebbels' Howard, things here are starting to suck balls as well.
Not as bad as what's described in this post but not good. Combined with Australia’s newly invigorated racism, offensive treatment of refugees, the Children Overboard Incident* and our stupid, in-name-only participation in Iraq that did nothing except make people who previously had never heard of us hate our guts, I have decided when traveling to mask my shame with my shite Colin Farrell impersonation and pretend I'm from Ireland.
Arggggg, now I've depressed myself.
*Which should be called Our Leader was an Inept Bullshit Artist Incident
The real sadness comes from the point when the original intentions of the implimentation " to protect the population", turns to "Impose a sense of fear and lothing". Granted this attitude is only shown to be harbored in a few, but it seems their number is growing. Blame the American people? Not quite sensable, We as a whole have seen the paranoina that has taken control but are either to self-involved or fearful of public ridicule to become involved the few that do stand up and speak find our voices still fall upon deaf ears but hope and courage remain. Don't hate the U.S. rather hate those that have manipulated us to reach this point, those select individuals need to be held accountable not the entire Country.
maybe the TSA is a dry run to get people to strip for the "showers"?
Saw the following related story:
Analysis tool exempt from some privacy laws
People whose biographic or biometric data is being analyzed by a new Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) data system will not automatically be granted access to their records or be able to review them for accuracy as usually permitted by federal privacy protection laws.
The rest of the story is on Federal Computer Week:
http://www.fcw.com/online/news/153543-1.html
I had the 'good fortune' to get held up at Miami Intl' a couple of years ago (returning from Latin America, I am a citizen of a South Asian country). The reason given was that the picture on my visa didn't match my current appearance (I had recently shaved). The interesting part though was that I was taken to the 'specail room' after they determined that my connecting flight was late enough for them to conduct a through examination. I was asked to go to a special room after waiting for a few minutes in the holding area where there were people from all parts of the world, though mostly from Central and South America. The INS agent proceeded to ask me some general questions and then kept staring at my visa and me for almost 10-15 minutes. When I enquired why they can't use the iris and fingerprint scans in their system to establish my identity, he said that those can only be used when they suspect me of some 'criminal' intent. As of now, I am only a suspect to 'visa fraud' (the second interesting bit of this experience). On realizing that this form on examination would not get me anywhere soon, I offered to show my older passports (with expired US visas) and all other forms of identification that I had on me. That finally seemed to do the trick and I was let go. As a parting advice the INS agent asked me to get the picture on my visa changed to something more recent next time I was home. I almost blurted out "You have no idea how the US consulates treat visa applicants in our part of the world. They don't even pick up the phone. Getting a visa is an ordeal in itself. Changing the photo - forget about it!" Thankfully, I held my tongue.
I must say that my experience has not been so bad compared to the post here. But at the same time, I would not like to repeat it any time in the near future. That brief encounter was quite disabling, made me feel completely helpless and at the mercy of the federal agents (and they do carry guns).
@ 51 a_user:
That's because most US airports don't have different security zones, like European airports do.
In a European airport, I could transfer in Rome and never show my passport, because I'd stay in the "International transit" zone. But I wouldn't be able to walk out the doors, because I'd have to show my passport to exit the transit zone.
In a US airport, however, there's nothing stopping you from getting out of your flight from Torronto and boarding another plane to New Jersey, thus skipping immigrations, so they have do immigration the moment you come in.
This is actually the same as European airports now, if you're coming in from non-schengen countries. If I fly to Rome from New York via London, I have to do all my immigration when I get into London, because there won't be an immigration check when I get into Rome.
Chevy vs Ford, Apple vs PC, Obama vs McCain... It makes me sad to see people buying so heavily into a two party and no other choices electoral system. A soft leftist could not dissasemble police state apparatus, there would be too much opposition from the right, and the rightist wants the police state. Do most Americans even oppose the DHS type thuggery, do they even want choices? Enjoy voting in the class elections this November. So will you be drinking Pepsi or Coke?
I wont get into it, but I had a very negative experience crossing the border back into the US from Canada, in Washington.
The problem was basically that we told the truth and came as we were.
If I ever leave the US again, and intend to return [which is getting less likely], I will be in disguise, wearing a coca-cola t-shirt with a yankees hat on, no beard, no tan, and with the intention to only say I am traveling for tourism.
Essentially, I think you need to employ subterfuge and 'terrorist tactics' to get by if you are in the very least an individual person who does not easily meld in with the rest of fat stupid americans.
The biggest problem here is that the pigs are pigs. They aren't people who have any training in cross-cultural management, they are only trained to oppress and distress.
That said, I love the city I live in, and the community I have within it. I just hate 'America' in terms of the powers that be, and its policy of ignorance.
The real America is far and away from its borders, and even more distant from its leaders.
This makes me so mad, I believe I will decline to vote in the next election! That will show them.
If only we'd had enough wonderful snctmns hypcrts to help us 5 years ago, this problem could have been avoided.
I remember that JFK immigration room. The thing that stood in my mind as I spent an hour waiting there with no clear idea what was going on was how the desks of the immigration officers were raised above where the travellers were sitting. It was a subtle psychological effect, but it reflected the attitude of the "public servants" you met there.
What if the list of DHS employers somehow made it onto their own watch list? Just wondering.
JFK International Airport sucks, pure and simple.
If you have to fly into or out of New York City, try to book flights that use LaGuardia or Newark. Kennedy is awful -- just an incompetent airport.
You don't have to be foreign, brown, a recent immigrant, or even a passenger on an international flight to be given grief by security there. I've had them block my e-ticket and force me to stand in lines for an hour and a half (I walk with a cane) because the person who paid for my ticket didn't have the same name I do. They also tried to lie to me about airport security requirements -- you are not required to show a valid US passport if you're an American citizen traveling from New York to Chicago. The reason the lines were so long and slow was that they had ONE operating security line with metal detector in that terminal, and what appeared to be one uniformed TSA employee to operate it.
I barely made my gate in time to board. Then my plane sat on the runway for the better part of two hours because way too many flights had been scheduled for the available runways, and they'd parked the waiting planes so close together that they couldn't get out of each other's way when their turn came.
Charlie Stross had a ghastly time at Kennedy just recently when he flew into the US for his latest book tour. He'd just gotten in from Ireland. His connecting flight out of Kennedy boarded close to schedule, but couldn't take off because thunderstorms were blocking too many of the routes. Instead, the plane was taxied around the runways for five hours. When an available slot finally came up, they couldn't take it because the plane no longer had enough fuel. Only then was the flight cancelled.
Charlie then spent three hours trying to reclaim his luggage, which had his medications in it. Granted, you'd normally have that in your carry-on; but as he explained to me later, it had never occurred to him that the airline could lose his luggage when his flight hadn't gone anywhere. He eventually gave up, crashed at my place, and flew out the next day.
Yes, Kennedy's screening procedures are awful; but even if they were competent, humane, and efficient, you'd still want to avoid the place on general principles.
at #52 (a href="http://www.tsa.gov/contact/index.shtm"> TSA Contact List
Remember though well worded letters are the only way to get your points across. Avoid colloquial language, (no swearing). Present well-informed suggestions. Be clear in your examples.
Sending over complaint after complaint of a whole lot of @#!@! and a bunch of "you guys made me look stupid" comments won't help at all. Explaining how you think your rights were breached. How you were not given enough information to speed along the process. How you were detained without any indication as to why, which could avoid a lot of hassle and speed things along for everyone.
I don't know the loops well enough but isn't the TSA a private company? I believe there in lies the problem. I travel to the US by car or greyhound. I have never had a problem and both Canada and US guards there have been clear and reasonable. I've only ever flown in the US twice so I have no real personal experience to draw on there. I think if the TSA were to be held accountable and responsible for themselves then things might be better. I think also that if the government has any interest in foreign policy and image (which they better after Bush), then they should be looking very closely at the image the US portrays.
The TSA can be the first and last place you ever see of the US. I don't think they should be sending people home with their only memory of the country being an inconsiderate and ignorant official denying them the very things they've been taught the US prides above all else.
and @ #71. VOTE. Just maybe look into more regional matters. Take a small interest in politics and local efforts. A vote is what you get but in times outside of elections you can still yell pretty loud. Sometimes doing it with the right people at the right people can enact far more change than a vote.
TSA Contact List
Not sure why that link didn't work before.
Samsam (#68): the UK has continued to opt out of Schengen, so in that case you would probably clear immigration in Rome.
If you flew through Paris, however, you'd enter the Schengen zone there (passing immigration), and potentially get stopped for a customs check when reaching Rome (since your bag tags wouldn't have the EU "green stripe" on them). (We were briefly stopped by German customs after flying BOS-CDG-MUC, after the Schengen accords had gone into effect.)
And nearly half of the population currently says they will vote for McCain... indicating a support for continuing these sorts of civil liberties violations. It is enough to make me lose hope for our country.
Anonymous @57: What makes anyone think they have any say in anything that goes on in the interstitial places between countries?
That'd be because we're human beings, and a civilized human being cares about other human beings being mistreated, regardless of whether there's a long-standing tradition of thuggery under the color of law in particular locations.
I'm British & lived in the States till '95. Thought it was a great country etc:
Sadly since they have gone all gungho on this anti terror 'thing' + the neocon movement have hijacked the USofA, I really have no desire to ever return probably in my life time.
So sad! because all these extreme laws from the land of the free, only gives more power to lesser democracies to bend & break laws that took us years of struggle to achieve. It is happening right under our noses in th name of SECURITY & the majority of GOOD people don't notice or don't care.
Thanks & wake up, good people! Soon it will be to late with power shifting to the East.
Prunk @75: TSA is a federal agency and that's part of the problem. Prior to 9/11 the security at airports were provided by private firms. While the quality of help was not so great, not that TSA is any better, at least back then if you complained you could get the jackasses fired. And they knew it. I regularly got hassled pre 9/11 for carrying my pocketknife on the plane, because it looked scary. But raise enough of a ruckus, and the supervisor, or some guy with some seniority anyway, would come over, examine it, say that yeah it was within the legal limits, sorry for the inconvenience, and let me go on my way. Think that would happen now? Now that they are federal employees they are protected by the knowledge that it takes acts of God to fire a federal employee, so basically they'll be employed no matter what they do. Whee! I feel safer already!
Back to the secondary screening:
Maybe I've been unlucky, but I've been held for secondary screening every time I've flown since 9/11. In the US, and in Amsterdam, and in the UAE, and Columbia. Oddly enough, coming back to the states from Colombia I did not get hassled (although I was pulled aside at the gate), but there were two dogs running around sniffing, so I guess they were just concerned with drugs.
The Amsterdam cops were pretty wired, I thought they were going to shoot us by accident for a while. They were very nervous, they clearly thought there was a bomb in our luggage, and took us to a deserted terminal waaaaaaay away from everything else and had us open our luggage. They were sweating, which was not good. And I probably did not help matters by pointing out that if it was a bomb then they'd be killed, too, since everyone was huddled around us. They did back off, but then the guns came out of the holsters. Glocks, IIRC. Because we had several cardboard boxes full of electronics repair and building equipment, I can kinda see the nervousness, but they made us open everything up and would not provide any tape to tape it all back up, so a lot of it was damaged on that flight. grrrrrr. Boycott Amsterdam!
The Customs guys when I was leaving Paris via the train to London were assholes, who dumped all my shit out, stepping on the clothes and of course no one helped me put everything back in, and then they spent 45 minutes arguing amongst themselves, and with me, on if it was legal for me to have a toy that I'd bought at a souvenir shop in Brussels. They would not confiscate it, I could not just leave it there, and yet they would not allow me to pass with it. Finally the Brit customs guys came over and convinced them to let me through as I was now the last passenger and was holding up the train. Boycott France!
That same trip coming back into the US that toy was confiscated at Customs because it was missing a small ring of orange paint. I think the guy just wanted it for his kid. Then my ex-US Army duffel bag tested positive for "explosives". So they spent 45 minutes swabbing it and running it through the machine until it came back clear. Seriously, they just did it over and over till they'd wiped off whatever residue was there. The guy was polite, but damn, almost missed my flight, and my luggage did miss it. Gah! I must boycott the US! Oh wait...
Down in Colombia my luggage did not initially make the trip. I was assured I would be called and could then come back to the airport and pick it up. Well, they called at midnight, and so I took a taxi, but I couldn't get into the airport because I had no ticket, and couldn't seem to explain what I needed in my admittedly rudimentary Spanish. Luckily some girls arriving recognized my accent and translated for me. Ended up at the airport all night though, and did have to get searched twice since I was acting "suspicious". Does pay to know the language for sure. Also at the airport at Aruca I was asked to step aside for additional searching. They tried to ask me questions as well, but as I said my Spanish is very limited, and they got real pissed at the guy with us at that point as our interpreter when he tried to interpret. So it did not go so well. Boycott Colombia?
Oh, and my last trip down to Mexico, which was crossing by foot from El Paso or Del Rio, can't recall right now, was robbed on the way back by the border cop on the Mexican side. Granted this was back in the 80s, but still. Boycott Mexico!
Every time I've flown through Detroit since 9/11 they've taken me aside for a search by hand and additional questioning. The first few times the gloved pat down was in plain view of everyone on the concourse. Fairly embarrassing. After the first time I'd ask the searcher for his name and phone number. "Why?" "Well, usually at this point on a date I've got a name and phone number at last." Usually they'd chuckle and it helped ease the tension. Detroit is also where I was threatened with jail for having the audacity to take traveler's kit with me from the plane. It had dare I say it? A little bitty pair of unsharpened scissors (and needles, but they were freaking out about the scissors)! KLM gave it to me as I left one plane, the TSA went apeshit when I walked 300 feet to the next plane and had the evil, evil scissors. I did notice that the next time we flew in to Detroit KLM did not hand out the sewing kit.
Back in 1990 I had some German guy aim his MP5 at me while his partner searched me. I had one of those dorky ass wear your passport around your neck things on, and in it I also had an asthma inhaler. Which, in profile through my shirt kinda looked like a pistol. Sorta. At the time I thought it was cool and tried to get them to let someone else take a picture of me with a submachine gun aimed at me, but they declined. Damn fascists! Boycott Germany! :)
Meh. I've never let how I was treated by low paid security guards at the border or at airports influence which country I did or did not go to. I figured it was just one of those things that happens sometimes.
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Someone missed the memo: Until you are a poor huddled mass, wretched and teeming on our shore, ICE won't let you through. A few hours on ICE seems to do the trick. Enjoy your stay.
USA - no swarthy brown people need apply.
Belgium @29: Muscato @42 is right. The airport you go through does make a difference. Kennedy's by far the worst in the NYC area. I suspect Newark's the best, since one sees so many Southwest Asian travelers going through there, and they'd be likely to keep track of that.
I haven't taken a bus or train from Toronto to NYC since before 9/11, but I have taken the train to and from Montreal several times. There's one train a day. It's surprisingly inexpensive because the line is subsidized by New York State as a way of encouraging tourism in the upper part of the state. The train is slow, but the scenery is lovely. Bring snacks -- the available food is pretty crummy.
I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the experience if it weren't for the border crossing. They stop the train in the middle of nowhere, and you just sit there and wait while the TSA takes its own sweet time examining the passengers. The railroad's own schedules don't take this procedure into account, but I've never seen it take less than an hour and a half. Other travelers have told me they've been on trains where it took four hours.
There are no metal detectors or air-puffing chemical sniffers. I forget whether they have dogs. I have no idea why there isn't a border station where travelers get off with their luggage and get processed in an office setting.
I don't know how it compares to the experiences of Kay the Complainer @46. The officials who examine the passengers do appear to be more laid-back than the ones you see in airports. I recommend being genial, having your papers in order, and being prepared to be very, very bored.
Takuan @37, if they used regular civil service employees, there'd be limits on what they could ask them to do.
Mike the Kid @40, I don't think you should suggest that people aren't telling the truth about their experiences with the TSA. Plenty of them "know and follow the rules" and have the system mistreat them anyway.
You haven't had that happen to you. Congratulations. More travelers should be able to say the same. But your good experiences don't mean that others are lying when they say their experiences are bad.
Moon @43:
I don't know how long it's been since you badly needed to use a bathroom when none was available, but if it goes on long enough it's not only painful but mind-altering. Around the time your teeth start feeling funny and you break into a cold sweat, you stop being able to think of anything else. Time dilates. Your judgement is affected. For instance, if the bus you're on only passes through that area every three days, it'll start seeming reasonable to get off and wait for the next one. The whole experience is seriously unpleasant and disorienting.If you're ever in that state again, pay attention to what happens when you finally do get to use the bathroom. It's like you can feel your mental chemistry tipping back over into a more normal state.
That's one possible explanation for why he was crying. Here's another: he was in pain, there was a bathroom within sight, his friends were waiting for him, and any reasonable system would have arrangements for passengers detained by secondary screening to have access to bathrooms; and yet the system had no such arrangements, and the official he spoke to was enjoying his discomfiture.
Think about it. We know from the story that there were families there who'd been waiting for seven hours. They had children with them. They had nowhere but the airport to spend the night. How is it possible that they couldn't use the bathroom? Yet the guard was telling him that they couldn't.
This guy was used to thinking of himself as a real person, a British citizen living inside the social contract and the rule of law. He had rights, and reasonable expectations. Now, suddenly, he was a non-person, and anything could happen to him. Given that the TSA employees can't have wanted the waiting passengers to piss on the floor, is there any reason beyond the malicious exercise of arbitrary power for them to deny passengers access to the bathroom for hours on end?
The guy was tired and scared and confused and in pain, and the guard was smiling as he issued his impossible order. At that point, crying was a sane response.
Check out BadKittyM's comment, #61. She was having that reaction too. The surface circumstances were very different, but the underlying cause was the same.
Anonymous @45, I'm white, native-born, middle class, know people who know people, and have a fair number of ancestors who immigrated circa 1620, but the TSA scares me too.
Victor Trac @47:
Obama, hands down. I don't agree with Mark about Obama's position on civil liberties, but that's an argument for another thread and another day.What's relevant here is that McCain's party (by which I mean the Republican power structure) is heavily bought into the whole fear/terrorism/security theatre/surveillance/denial of rights/arbitrary power/detention/secrecy constellation. Their friends and contributors are holding the contracts to provide it. Their political cronies used it to help themselves get elected, and are on record as supporting it. If it's repudiated vigorously enough, some of those political cronies are arguably in danger of winding up on the receiving end of legal prosecution, or even in the docket at The Hague.
If you'd rather the question be personal, the answer is still Obama. He's the one with all the relatives in Kenya and Indonesia.
If you'd rather figure it out for yourself, get onto Google and start finding the people and organizations who are calling for tighter border security and fewer rights for people who might turn out to be terrorists. Then see which candidate they support.
Andrew @48, I'm confused. Are you saying that all or most of the people in secondary screening have counterfeit or fraudulent visas?
You're right about federal buildings. After five or ten years of heavy use, they pick up that gritty dispirited look and smell, and never lose it.
BBNinja @50, prior to 9/11 the airlines had been lobbying for years to have air safety regulations made less stringent so they'd be spending less on airport security, and they still asked to be bailed out after the attack.
Anonymous @57:
They're looking for people who are worried, suspicious, angry, or are paying too much attention to what's happening around them. Try not to be that person. You're not the droid they're looking for. Everything's fine. You're one of the easy ones they don't have to think about.Dainel @58, could you please stop telling threads full of concerned citizens that it's all our fault because we live here?.
10MoreYearsInVideoGames @62, that's the part that grieves me most. We were a source of hope for millions of people we never knew about. I and others have fought as hard as we could for America's ideals, but I still feel like we've let all those people down.
Frank @66, thanks for the link. I put it up in the Particles list at Making Light.
Rebdav @69, fie on you. Of course it makes a difference. Remember when Ralph Nader was saying the same thing? Can anyone say now that nothing would have been different with Al Gore in the White House?
Prunk's got it right. Voting really does matter.
As an American, and one who proudly served his country with honor and dedication, I would like to apologize for the behavior of my fellow countrymen.
It is not the people of this nation that have failed to uphold it's liberties, but rather it is the leaders of this nation that have absconded with this nations dignity. Believe me when I say that to every person who holds this nation dear, our leaders have slapped us in the face, they will get theirs.
http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2008/08/border_patrol_abuse.php
I pray to God that we fix this.
As an American, I also agree this is a terrible story and is a clear example of how bad our handling of international travel has become. In my recent travel, I've noticed it takes ten times as long to go through US customs than nearly any other country.
However, my roommate, a Brazilian with a US Green Card, was recently visiting his sister in Spain. Unfortunately for him, he was held at the Spanish border for five hours without being told any sort of information for no apparent reason other than the fact that he was Brazilian. He eventually got a harsh interrogation regarding the fact he didn't have a physical ticket back (though he had a confirmation printout) and the amount of money he had.
Unfortunately, though we mostly hear about US problems (iris scans make my blood boil), it has become an issue in other countries as well.
So we already had these rules for going to the US:
- Wipe your mobile phone's memory.
- Wipe your laptop.
to which we can now add
- Take a good book.
- And some valium.
I'm ready to create my OWN COUNTRY.
That's right...find some shallow bit of ocean with shallow water in international waters, buy (clean) landfill from around the globe to create new land, and create a SANE COUTRY with SANE LAWS and POLITE PEOPLE and none of this surveillance society, Big Brother, "just doing my job, ma'am" bullshit.
I am SO FED UP that the only thing keeping my spirits up today is yesterday's arrival of my brand new EFF shirt and hat to replace last year's (now worn) shirt.
GRRRRRRRRRRR. ARGH.
micronations never quite work. Better to create your own virtual country underground in the society you presently inhabit.
I agree that this sucks big time, but I think calling it a 'human rights abuse' is a bit of a stretch. The phrase gets bandied about a lot, but using it in this context minimizes the more serious abuses that are going on every day. Much like the overuse of the word 'terrorism'.
Gitmo DOES abuse human rights. Japanese internment was a human rights abuse. China, the USSR, Cuba, etc locking up dissidents. The holocaust. The sedition act(s). Fire bombing during WWII. Torture of POW's by the Viet Cong. Child labor. Slavery. The semi-permanent detention of illegal aliens in prisons in this country.
This secondary screening is dehumanizing, a civil liberties issue, embarrassing and disgusting, for sure. However, having your trip to New York turn into a bummer, or even being denied entry into the US, does not rise to the same level of emotional and physical abuse I normally associate with the phrase.
This is horrible, but it's closer to my last experience with AT&T customer service than to the tuskegee syphilis study.
as a human, what do you think are your rights?
To be treated with dignity, fairness and respect; to be presumed innocent.
Saw the following related story:
Citizens' U.S. Border Crossings Tracked
http://preview.tinyurl.com/689yyt
The federal government has been using its system of border checkpoints to greatly expand a database on travelers entering the country by collecting information on all U.S. citizens crossing by land, compiling data that will be stored for 15 years and may be used in criminal and intelligence investigations.
Officials say the Border Crossing Information system, disclosed last month by the Department of Homeland Security in a Federal Register notice, is part of a broader effort to guard against terrorist threats. It also reflects the growing number of government systems containing personal information on Americans that can be shared for a broad range of law enforcement and intelligence purposes, some of which are exempt from some Privacy Act protections.
etc.
Why was Post 14 disemvoweled?
Was it the you're all children comment? I spent quite a bit of time trying to re-structure that comment and I didn't find anything too offensive.
I certainly disagreed with everything said, however for the sake of the numerous replies that related the comment, it would be much easier if it was kept in tact.
I don't mind disemvoweling, I just think it should be used where appropriate.