SWAT team raids mayor, shoots family dog because someone mailed them pot
Danny sez,
Another Police Raid; More Dead Dogs (Thanks, Danny!)Cheye Calvo, mayor of DC suburb Berwyn Heights, was raided by a SWAT team after 30lbs of marijuana was delivered to his home. They broke down his door, shot his two black labradors, and interrogated him and his wife as their dogs bled to death.
Turns out Calvo says he had no idea about the package, which was still outside, unopened and perhaps waiting for its real recipient to pick it up. Police say they still had sufficient cause to break in (even though they did not have a "no-knock warrant").
It's the trickle down effect from Guantanamo.
The sanctioning of brutality from the top, and an attitude that says "we can do whatever the **** we want because this is drugs/terrorism, and therefore REALLY important" add up to a slippery slope to a police state.
If that Chapelle skit of the white-collar embezzler being treated as a drug offender is any indication, shooting dogs seems the modus of extralegal drug busts.
The whole story is never told on the internet.
The mayor's wife ordered the pot. She's a dealer. The cops raided the place because they were doing what's called a "sting operation".Nt sr f y gys hv ny d bt rlty r nt. 'v bn rdng BB frvr nd lv y gys, bt sht lk ths s s snstnlst. grnt 'd nvr rd nythng bt th cps dng nythng bfb.
so if this happens to enough high up people, perhaps senators, i bet they'll be some policy change pretty quickly
Zyklon, I'm sorry you're not happy with this story. It seems you have some special insight into this fiasco so you'll have to forgive me. Are you saying that the search warrant in question was executed correctly?
#2
"The package was addressed to Trinity Tomsic, Calvo's wife. But law enforcement sources said last week that they are now investigating the possibility that the mayor and his wife were unwitting recipients and that a deliveryman might have intended to intercept the package as part of a drug smuggling scheme."
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/03/AR2008080301636.html
This is the only explanation I've seen anywhere. Is there other information you're privvy to? Please share!
Also, would you expect a story about police successfully catching a small-time drug dealer to get more press then this one ANYWHERE?
Zyklon, not sure if your post was in sarcasm or not but you did read the Washington Post article linked on the Cato page right?
After the raid, police found the unopened package, containing 32 pounds of marijuana, in the house. According to law enforcement sources, police are investigating whether a deliveryman might have been the intended recipient of the package instead of Calvo or his wife. The sources spoke on condition of anonymity because the case is open.
Zyklon, slanderer of innocents.
Zyklon, defender of dog-destroying police.
Zyklon, insulter of Boing Boing community.
They killed his two dogs, ans they will get away with that? What kind of banana republic is this?
Cory, I've heard elsewhere that the box was brought inside the house when the raid occurred. Might want to change that in your blurb, though it isn't of importance to our discussion.
Other fun bits involved include failure of interdepartmental communication, the regular police having no clue the mayor was to be raided. I think it's crazy that SWAT teams were involved, but with that amount of pot they legally HAD to be.
Latest news
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/06/AR2008080602495.html
is that no-knock entry, killing dogs, etc. was an oopsie. I'd be cautious about drawing big conclusions about all this-- the Prince Georges County police have (and have earned) a bad reputation over the years.
Some would say, "Well, they must have shook hands with the wrong kind of person to have their address known by some evildoers. Serves them right for having a mailbox. Anything the Police State does is always right forever."
I say I like dogs.
Horrible realization that the Matrix is indeed, not real.
@Mattf Thanks for posting the link to the story... This was on page 2:
"In some quarters, this has been viewed as a flawed police operation and an attack on the mayor, which it is not," High said. "This was about an address, this was about a name on a package . . . and, in fact, our people did not know that this was the home of the mayor and his family until after the fact."
Drug delivery man leaves a trail of packages all over a delivery route and the SWAT doesn't try to figure out who is who before the come in with guns blazing?
Even though they had the names when the packages were picked up in Arizona?
Let's say the mayor really is involved. Wouldn't you want procedures followed to the T to make sure you didn't blow the court case?
What a bunch of clowns.
Maybe this police force does not like this mayor, wanted to generate some bad publicity for him, it is not like the Mayor did anything at all, now his dogs are dead, and the cops are laughing.
Hey Zyklon how's your grip on reality?
You know a really good way to make lots of people HATE you? Shoot dogs for no reason during a raid that may well be a false alarm. Good job, guys. Keep up the good work.
May be the Mayor wanted to trim some fat from the Police Budget....
I am very glad I don't live in the US...
What gives anyone the right to do this, let alone a government. Bush has just said how bad human rights in China are and in his own backyard (litterally), it's just as bad.
Zyklon- Are you going to back you story up with references? Oh but you don't get the whole story on teh interweb do you? Where did you get this? one of yer buddies in the bar? local shock jock? just made it up with the power of yer own mind? We (I)would like to know or are you just as nasty and poisonous as your namesake?
"Zyklon"?....hhhmm, interesting name choice. Let me guess, in addition to be a dog hating cop-loving troll you are also an Anti-Semite? Thought so.
Is there any way to donate to help the Calvo/Tomsic's sue the police?
At the very least, they deserve to be compensated for their pets (I think $50,000 each is a good place to start) to clean and repair their home, as well as punitive damages from the jack-booted thugs called Police.
Zyklon is in the Military.
#10 Well alot has changed over the years. PG county police had a bad record. In the old days, their reputation was *blam* *blam* *blam* *blam* *blam* *blam* *click* *click* "FREEZE!" Nowadays that would never happen. They have automatics.
#21....in the military? Lots of anti-semites in the US military.
evil wins if it makes you evil too
#23 Yeah turn the other cheek...but I do not like being on the receiving end of an trollish insult directed at a group (and apparently based on lies) this early in the AM...but the name's a giveaway,huh? "Zyklon", indeed. Going after the whole group....
#23 : So true !
The Associated Press now says the police have arrested the actual culprits:
AP Article
#18: Nothing gives them the right but their judges allow it anyway.
The USA no longer has a Justice system...only a legal system.
I don't get why it's worth any kind of a "raid" when pot is involved. Just walk up to the house in daylight with two cops, knock on the door and walk the person away calmly. It's that easy.
I have zero respect for law enforcement that feels the need to shoot a lab. If they can't deal with a good licking and tossing a ball around the back yard, they shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun in the first place!
(Reverse troll) Hey the Mayor works for a Social Group helping the poor...no wonder the cops killed his dogs. Kinda like El Salvador of 1981...
Hey people, what is wrong with you? I am still waiting for the usual phrases:
- "were are not getting the whole story here"
- "something smells fishy"
- "their own fault. when a cop orders you to do something, you comply"
On second thought: A young, WASP, married mayor!? Makes you wonder what would have happened if he were poor, black and unemployed.
According to my reading of the equal protection clause of the US constitution police are not special or different from any other citizen (creating problems with cop killer laws). High speed chases and no knock entries would end if more cops would meet a bitter end from them, but most cops love they hyper-agression involved. I am all for disarming the police like the English did, although now there are many firearm officers ruining the system. A seige would have worked just fine, or catch them by surprise out by the car or work. Any sane person would shoot at a no knock entry, there is every reason to suspect that the thugs entering are not agents of the police state.
I was on a SERT team as a paramedic when I was more naive, and even if it is a drug dealer the damage to the kids inside seeing terrible bad men beat and take their father and mother away is just begging them to become some kind of home grown insurgent when they grow up or somthing else sick in the head. I had to quit the team after a few months.
I am not the first but WTF Zyklon, yes you say it just means cyclone in German but signing up on an English website where we all know it is about Zyklon-B made by BASF for the Nazi German Jew killing machine.
Thank goodness they shot those dogs, though.
Black Labs are, after all, notorious for their vicious temperament and fondness for PCP.
America, guilty until proven otherwise. If the government treated us like we were actually innocent then we might not be scared of them, and who wants that?
I'm guessing this goes into the "How the war on drugs is hurting America" file.
God, how upsetting. I would probably have PTSD forever after seeing my pets shot in front of me. Knowing the situation, you'd probably not even be able to comfort them in their dying throes, what with the gun against the back of your head and your face on the floor.
I hope there's big time compensation for these people, though I also know it will never be enough to replace that which has been lost. :(
Anyone want to start a collection to send 30lbs of pot to the White House?
We live in a police state. Do something about it.
Don't listen to this Zylkon jackass. They arrested the people who were actually responsible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/06/AR2008080602495.html?sid=ST2008080603533&pos=
Well, that's one way to get rid of a neighbor's annoying barking dogs. I still think "asking nicely" might be a better course of action though.
What this SWAT team did is the work of Blackwater and the US Marines not police work.
All they did by storming the house immediately was to prove that some one will pick up a package with their name on it, a charge that wont hold up in court, and one big lawsuit.
Real police work would have had the cops knowing that this was the mayor, so immediately we have either a mix up, a set up, or a major scandal. A single detective could have survieled the house the to see if after the package was received if any drug distribution like activity was going on. It's called building a case, and if the Calvos really are pot dealers then the cops would have their nice bust, now they have a law suit.
IF they waited one hour they probably would have gotten a call from the mayor saying someone sent him 30 pounds of pot and how can he help catch the sender.
I'm not a big fan of the War On Drugs and would be much happier if weed were legalized. Hell, I've never taken anything stronger than my regular margarita hold the sour mix, but I wouldn't mind seeing all recreational drugs decriminalized for adults.
*BUT* so long as society as a whole believes it is a major problem and have rewarded police agencies for using these tactics, until the laws change I can't see blaming the police for doing what they've been tasked to do.
I know when I had a crackdealer squatting in the house next to mine, I fully supported the 'no-knock warrant'...again, I don't care about the drugs, but care more for the entire criminal enterprise that these people setup. Guns coming in and out. People always trying to break into the wrong house (mine) to get to the drugs. All that. Heck, I called the police and let them know the schedules of those going in and out...so in some ways, I'm part of the problem.
Most people involved in the DISTRIBUTION (emphasized because I don't want this confused with the consumption of) of drugs are violent and use violent ways. Until we get rid of the laws, the only way for police to do their jobs will be to do so violently.
BTW -- Even a warranted search, someone cuffing me and searching my home would be enough for ANY of my dogs to try to kill those hurting me. I've had to hold my dogs down in the past when people have made threatening movements towards me. This is normal dog activity to protect its owners even at the cost of its own life. What would you have a police officer do that was being attacked?
It's just some pot (OK, a lot).
Pot makes you giggle, and then go to sleep.
If the drug supplying system is criminalized and dangerous enough to require a SWAT team with automatic weapons to go knock on a door, then I suggest the problem lies in the anti-drug laws. They are insane, and unsustainable.
Future generations will look back on this as every bit as nutty as we do depression-era prohibition.
And, no, I don't smoke pot. I don't like it.
#30: Check out the second comment on this thread...did not take long at all...as if someone were waiting...to manage our opinions.
You can't fight city hall.
#28 & #40:
The types of people who take delivery of pot in the tens of pounds usually aren't the kind of people who smoke it. They're the types of people who just finished a line of coke, and are paranoid that somebody is going to steal the brick of pot they invested half of their life savings in, so they sit facing the door with a gun in their hands and do another line of coke when they start getting to tired to point the gun in that general direction. Then, when their shift at the convenience store starts, they go to "work" and sell the pot to teenagers.
One such person was the scariest roommate I ever had.
#35 I like the sentiment, but they have their own curriers.
More to the topic, maybe we need more government officials and lawmakers to experience this kind of excessive force and stupidity in order to get some rational changes made.
I live in Los Angeles, where the police force is modeled on the marines, where they have been using a tank to break down doors for over twenty years, and where someone getting shot in a raid on the wrong address given by a confidential informant is barely newsworthy. It has been interesting to me to see how drug enforcement has been used as an excuse to escalate tactics used by police across the country, ever since the CIA helped bring crack into my fair city.
Anyway, my hope is that this guy becomes Calvo guy stays angry, and becomes an activist on this issue.
Just so everybody doesn't think my previous comment was meant as justification for the actions of these officers, BTW, I certainly think they should go to jail. They're clearly guilty of animal cruelty, violation of this couple's right to due process, illegal search, etc. Shooting those dogs was essentially carrying out a sentence against them without a trial. Busting in without a warrant? Ridiculous.
However, they should also have their sentences severely reduced if they give up their boss who ordered the raid to occur in that fashion.
How could anyone shoot those nice dogs? I'm sickened by this. If someone shot my dog...This is soo horrible. This is what a manupulated culture allows, one that's bought into the fed bullshit War on Drugs.
Wow, that is such a painful story. If the police murdered my dogs like that, I would pull a Rambo and go on a killing spree in revenge.
I hope the cops who did such a heartless and vicious thing are fired and driven out of town in disgrace.
And yes - I'm glad I live in Canada. Not that our cops are perfect or anything.
I've been saying this for a long time....people don't realize how many civil rights we have given up in the past 7 years in the response to terrorism. This isn't isolated, look at the TSA and innocent picture taking stories on BB.
Kay, I found myself saying the same thing. Which I know in not the right response. I mean, I should not want to kill someone. But if they shot my dog right in front of me I think I would kill them.
From the Washington Post article on the raid:
But a review of the warrant indicates that police neither sought nor received permission from Circuit Court Judge Albert W. Northrup to enter without knocking. Northrup found probable cause to suspect that drugs might be in the house and granted police a standard search warrant.
And a further description from a Post editorial:
"Without bothering to alert Berwyn Heights police, sheriff's deputies moved into position. Posing as a deliveryman, a deputy took the package to the family's door. After Mr. Calvo's mother-in-law initially refused to sign for it, the package was finally taken into the home, where it sat, unopened, on the living room floor. Whereupon the deputies, guns drawn, kicked in the door, stormed the house and shot to death the Calvos' two Labrador retrievers, one of them, apparently, as it attempted to flee. The canine threat thus dispatched, the mayor -- in his briefs -- and his mother-in-law were handcuffed and interrogated in close proximity to the bloodied corpses of their dogs."
Legalize it.
Zyklon: For someone who complained in a previous thread about being thrown down on when you refused a random search, you sure are quick to stand up for the Man.
Another isolated incident thanks to the Nancy Regan "War on Drugs"
The SWAT team would make good members of the Taliban.
A sickening story. I hope these people get a large and generous settlement from the idiots responsible. And then I hope they donate the money to NORML.
Incidentally, "no knock" was a Nixonian policy. He may be dead, but he's still our president.
This is a horrendous and bizarre situation. I am surprised no one has referenced the Dave Chapelle skit where he shows what would happen if drug dealers were treated like Corporate Executives when they were busted and vice versa. Life imitating art and all that. The irony is the complete lack of racial profiling here. If this thing can happen in affluent suburbs to white people then we are all truly fracked.
Apparently someone forgot to set their phaser to stun...
And I'm amazed at the fact everyone cares more about the dogs than they do 32 lbs of pot?! 32 LBS, that's not exactly a trivial amount. Sure it's not like a major raid or anything, but still, that didn't just cost a couple hundred to send.
If it was a frame up, seems mighty expensive... or it came from a relatively inexpensive source (like higher up the dealing chain).
#55: Yeah it ain't no problem until it happens to you and yours, huh?
If you're safe, screw the rest, huh?
#56: If pot were legal 32 lbs. would be less than nothing...what is the penalty in DC currently for this "large" amount? life withoput parole? All property seized, kids taken away, etc?
"Justice" indeed....
Cops shooting dogs immediately upon breaking into a place is becoming standard procedure.
#50: In all honesty this looks like a police set-up to neutralize somebody whose politics are unacceptable to the Prosecutors...who would that be? A Repub appointee? A "political" Repub appointee?
#17
May be the Mayor wanted to trim some fat from the Police Budget....
Well, if he didn't before, I bet he does now.
So they *didn't* have a no-knock warrant?
...because if that's the case, the SWAT team has committed a crime. They've also destroyed a citizen's property during the commission of that crime. Why aren't they fired, stripped of their benefits and pensions and on their way to jail?
#43: Just because the people you know are standard-lets-hurt-other-people, cops-are-violent-I'll-fight-back, criminals...any of the 'facts" you relate have anything at all to do with this case?
You sound like a paid informant...
I few thoughts:
1) What do you expect from a person who's name is Zyklon? (Why did he drop the "B"?)
2) Time to pass the had and mail "W" some smack.
3) The poor dogs were smarter than the cops.
4) How on earth was this level of stupidity necessary for 32#s of pot?
#43 posted by ivan256
If you read my whole post, not just the first few lines, you'll see that I was pointing out that it's the criminalization of more-or-less harmless pot that creates a violent criminal class, who then need to be dealt with via machine guns, tanks and all the rest of it.
I fully understand why the police might think they need to go in with guns blazing, if they think they are walking into a major drugs-running operation. Not excusing it - they are obviously a bunch of out-of-control goons, and they should go to jail themselves.
But -
The solution is: Legalize it. Control it. Make tax money off it. Stop breeding drugs dealers and pouring money and lives down the drain in pursuit of this absurd "war on drugs".
history note: the first human fatalities from the use of Cyclone "B" pesticide were in the thirties and involved the deaths of Mexican labourers at the hands of American government officials.
Regarding the use of force: it is a basic doctrine of democratic societies under the Rule of Law that force be proportional. You may not shoot a man for dropping a gum wrapper on your property. If you are attacked, you may not immediately open fire over the entire area with your legally owned machine gun.
This is not a characteristic of societies under the Rule By Law (China for example).
Which do you prefer: Rule Of Law? Or Rule By Law?
This whole thing was a giant, unnecessary, authoritarian f*up. And it deserves news coverage and public outrage.
Hopefully, the victim being an upper-middle class white dude who is mayor of his community will finally lead to policy changes on a larger level.
#63: Yup. That's right. I'm a narc. You wouldn't happen to have consumed any substances that increase paranoia, have you?
"lets-hurt-other-people"? "cops-are-violent-I'll-fight-back"? Where do you come up with this stuff? It was more like "This is worth more money than the building it's contained in, and people with guns probably know I have it".
Of course I'm such a paid informant that I turned the guy in... Oh wait... Actually he paid for his entire four years of college with that brick, and here I am ten years later still paying a quarter of my salary towards loans that the government decided they were going to break their promise to subsidize.
#65: Your solution ignores the reason drugs are illegal in the first place. Namely that widespread use has a negative impact on the productivity of our society as a whole. There has to be some middle ground between the "war", and the druggie society.
I don't know what it is though.
I'm amazed noone has commented that the police officers in the newspaper story are called Chief Melvin High and Sheriff Michael Jackson?
I hope to see this played out on an episode of Weeds next month! Seriously, my major concern is why police feel its necessary to use the SWAT team to arrest a pot dealer. SWAT should only be used when the police know that they are up against heavily armed individuals or gangs not for every day arrests. I want our police to be protected but if we continue to send in para military style raids for every little infraction then it won't be too long before 5 men with machine guns will surround you the next time you complain about being overcharged at Best Buy!
I sincerely hope that all involved in this raid - at every level are shown the door and have criminal charges brought against them. This type of behavior needs to be taken care of now before they start breaking in and shooting more than just dogs.
This is a prime example of law enforcement over stepping their boundaries again. It happens far too often, especially in this day and age where we've had our rights and freedoms stripped away.
"Another marijuana related death!" - X-Cops, SNL
er,,, um "Pass the Hat" dang @64
Dear Ivan
Alcohol has a huge negative impact on social productivity. The horrors it engenders could be listed endlessly. They tried prohibition and spawned the Mafia. Is our current situation a middle ground?
#68: Where I come from the handgun, on its own, merits extreme action by law enforcement. Under our Laws. And I agree with those Laws.
I have never personally seen anyone with a handgun.
If I do I will immediately call the Police.
It's the guns that hurt and kill, not the dope....it's ignorance about dope that does the hurting and killing in its case...such ignorance must be fought (not added to). Guns have nothing to do with dope. It's your savage drug laws and insane gun laws that force them into the same bed.
Amend your Constitution to remove the pernicious interpretations given to outmoded and obsolete provisions which serve to drastically increase the level and amount of violence in your Society...unless you want the violent to run things...as they apparently do now, in the USA. Remind me again, where has the US Fed Gov most increased spending in the last 10 years?
So what is this now, the war on dogs? What a bunch of clowns.
@#48:
Not disagreeing that the last 7 years have been bad, but this sort of raid is nothing new AT ALL. The war on drugs is comparatively peaceful compared to the crap going on under Reagan and Bush I.
And you want to talk about civic rights violations? Look at US history (see: sedition act, japanese interment, the great railroad strike, slavery, etc).
We're going through a bad phase, but we've been in bad places before. That doesn't mean people shouldn't be pissed off and doing everything they can to oust this administration (peacefully and legally), but it's comforting to know that this will probably pass...
#65: "Control"... By whom? Why?
#69: Wrong in fact, that's not the reason why they were made illegal.
Anyway who got to decide that a "more productive society" trumps personal freedom and the pursuit of happiness? Have I missed a debate?
And "productive" of what? More jails and inmates? Foreclosed mortgages? Destroyed Nations?
How does "more production" as a desiderata jibe with personal freedom, anyway?
Isn't "more efficient production" what the RIAA et al are fighting against?
I have a simpler cheaper better idea.
Why don't y'all leave us all alone, now, you hear?
I haven't signed up for the "production" line...perhaps we should discuss what is expected of us by our better, smarter citizens...
Sorry, but that whole situation is just wrong. It needs to be examined and re-examined and the responsible parties (the police) need to learn and act upon their mistakes.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2008/07/04/6069136-cp.html
#62, there used to be a Constitutional requirement that police either (a) knock and announce when executing a warrant, or (b) get a special no-knock warrant on a showing that knocking and announcing would be dangerous.
The Supreme Court got rid of that in 2006. The case is Hudson v. Michigan, 547 U.S. ___ (2006). Knock and announce is no longer required. Police can enter without knock and announce, even without a special showing.
Scalia wrote the opinion. Big shocker.
#74: Currently alcohol is illegal to possess or consume for 25% of your life by age on average, in many locations illegal to receive by mail, illegal to possess in an open container in a vehicle (with the same consequences as having some pot in your car in many places)... In addition it's illegal to be under the effects of alcohol in public, while driving, and, in many cases, at work. In the cases where alcohol is not illegal, it is highly regulated in terms of what form it can be sold in, what strengths it is available in, and where you can purchase it.
Despite all of that, it still causes family, work, interpersonal, health, and traffic related issues, violence, and deaths.
So, are you really trying to say it's a good idea to treat THC the same way we treat alcohol legally? Or that I'm wrong to argue that it shouldn't be outright legalized?
Yes. I'd say the situation with alcohol is a middle ground. I wouldn't necessarily say that it is the ideal middle ground, but we arrived at it out of necessity due to the widespread cultural significance of alcohol in our society. THC, and the various forms it comes in, do *not* have even close to the same level of cultural significance as alcohol, and given the failings of the compromise we have with alcohol I think it would be a bad idea to use a similar model.
As I said originally. I don't know what the right middle ground is. Legalizing it is the wrong thing to do. The war on it is the wrong thing to do.
#77: Will gladly just leave you alone, if you revert to living in conditions that would be possible without the subsidies of the wealth created by people who don't wander the streets saying "Damn, man, this shit is awesome".
If you're not one of those people, and you do your thing in your own home, in responsible quantities, and then go about your daily business, nobody is bothering you right now anyway.
#79: yes we know where the real problem is.
#80: The same guy who opined in the Media that it would be "absurd" to outlaw torture.
Two Supremes appointed by the Man who ordered people tortured unto death....sorry, not "people" but "enemy"...they aren't "people" until Scalia gets to say his piece.
I predict that in the future Scalia will be a very "distinguished" Judge...
I contend cannabis does have cultural significance. The irony being that much of that cultural significance can be attributed to the attempts to suppress it.
For those of you who missed the judge's reasoning in granting the search warrant:
Being /mailed/ a drug by someone who does not know you, whom you do not know, creates - somehow - /probable cause/ that /inside your home/, there are /more/ illegal drugs - without a single shred of reason or evidence that you have ever, in your life, bought, sold, possessed, used, or even /been within fifty meters/ of an illegal drug.
THAT IS RIGHT.
ALL IT TAKES FOR A CRIMINAL TO DESTROY YOUR LIFE IS TO TYPE YOUR NAME ON A MAILING LABEL, DROP A BAGGY OF DIRT MARIJUANA IN THE ENVELOPE, AND DROP IT IN A MAILBOX IN ARIZONA - THE "JUSTICE" SYSTEM WILL TAKE CARE OF THE REST, INCLUDING KILLING YOUR PETS AND TRAUMATISING YOU FOR LIFE.
"oh, it was all a mistake."
Our government was built on the notion that our justice system was to be /limited/ in its powers so that it could not be gamed like this.
When it's a major motion picture ("the Strangers", "Se7en"), the scenario is horror. When it's our government, somehow it's good?
#82:I do not propose the abolition of ordinances aimed at preserving Public Order.
#81: THC and alcohol are markedly different in every respect and THC has not demonstrably shown either bio or socio perniciousness sufficient to warrant State intervention at any level whatsoever.
The fact is the longer that weed stays completely illegal the clearer the evidence that Democracy is not functioning.
#84: I contend that I never said cannabis didn't have cultural significance, but instead that its significance was different than that which shaped our alcohol policies.
#82: You have no right to put in that "if"...leave me alone.
Or I shall call a cop.
#82: "Nobody is bothering you right now."
But that can change on the cops' whim, right? Some get to live in fear, huh?
Does it matter if I'm politically active? maybe so, huh?
See my comment #57 above.
Some of us care for the other people in our society, you know?
The Drug laws are political laws. A club to use against those they disagree with and wish to disempower....
AND THE BEST PART:
"uh, we didn't know it was the mayor until afterward"
BECAUSE THAT'S /RELEVANT???/ Because WHITE PRIVILEGE IS A FACTOR IN JUSTICE DECISIONS, EH?
To quote:
Publicly subsidised, privately profitable!
That's the anthem of the upper-tier (the puppeteer untouchable)
We focus a moment, nod in approval -
And bury our head back in the bar-codes of these neo-colonials.
All kept in place by displaced government death squads.
What is "class-war"?
Is this class war?
Yes, this is class war. And I'm just a kid- I can't believe that I gotta worry about this kind of shit!
Fuck this bullshit display of class loyalties.
ok, obviously this is horrible. no arguing that. all the points on how horrible this is have been made for me. now let's look on the bright side. this happened to someone who can do something about it. do you really think the mayor of this town is going to sit back and let this slide? oh hell no! i'm sure he knows at least one of the state's congressmen personally. shit will be done to keep this from happening to other people.
the WarOnSomeDrugs Industry is far too well entrenched to be shifted with reason and decency. Perhaps it is time to make it too expensive to be ignored. Remember that the last thing organized, violent crime wants is for pot to be legal. We need volunteer growers to start sending pot in the mail to appropriate targets. Maybe after a few billion spent in legal settlements they will reconsider if the DEA payroll and all the other related pork barrels is worth continuing. Of course they will find other corruption, but one battle at a time.
They shot labradores?
Has anyone in all human history ever been savaged by a labradore?
#88: It's not a matter of a 'right' to put that 'if' in there. It's a matter of practical reality. After all, if everybody starts living that lifestyle, the 'if' becomes inevitable. I assume from your user name that you're Canadian. Isn't there an ethical problem with taking from a system that provides you with health care without contributing to said system?
#89:
Good job reading my actual posts.
Apparently if you argue for anything other than complete legalization, you're for turning the screws on all pot users, and maintenance of the current regime? I'm not making the argument you seem to think I am, thus I really can't continue to "debate" you on the subject.
#80: IIRC Scalia did opine that where such a Warrant was "wrongfully" executed that the aggrieved Party could sue in Court for Damages.
The Mayor will be paid, that's for sure...as one dog was running away when it was shot.
I hope they get disciplined for raiding someone's house without a no-knock warrant over of a box of weed, and shooting 2 dogs for no reason.
HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA *gasp*HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA
Maybe if they shot a baby in the head point-blank they would get a stern warning and a 2 week vacation.
#90 said, "Yes, this is class war. And I'm just a kid- I can't believe that I gotta worry about this kind of shit!"
Just a kid? When do you think your awarness will be ready to absorb the truth? Obviously you're already there, so don't use your age as some sort of excuse. I'm just middle aged, but I don't want to deal with it either! Nobody does, and that's the problem.
#90: You are corerect. The Marijuana Laws are political Laws, top to bottom. There is no "evil" or "wrong" for these Laws to address or remedy. to the extent that the Marijuana Laws lead to bad results, it is in every case the fault of the Law as it is.
Repeal them.
They are not demonstrably justifiable as limits on our Personal freedoms in a free and democratic society. Haven't seen anything that even approaches an argument for making or keeping weed illegal.
@#54 - quite right. these are taliban tactics.
welcome to the united states of psychotica.
so, instead ofpoisoning the neighbourhood dog I can just tip the police about a pot operation and they'll go shoot it? cool!
Shooting my dog would be almost the same as shooting my child.
I feel the people responsible should face serious punishment.