The 5 greatest things ever accomplished while high
Cracked.com presents their list of the five greatest things ever accomplished while high. They said, "To make the cut, an accomplishment has to be considered great by people who could pass a field sobriety test. So no Grateful Dead music."
The list includes:
#5 Francis Crick Discovers DNA Thanks to LSD
#4 Freud and Cocaine Invent Psychoanalysis
#3 A Coke Addict Makes a Coke-Flavored Cola and Calls it Coke
#2 Dock Ellis Trips His Way to a No-Hitter
#1 Moses Takes 'Shrooms, Shits Out Ten Commandments
Francis Crick Discovers DNA Thanks to LSD: Crick spent the 50s and 60s throwing all night parties famous for featuring that era's favorite party favors: LSD and nudity. Crick never made it a secret that he experimented with the drug, and in 2006, the London paper The Mail on Sunday reported that Crick had told many colleagues that he was experimenting with LSD when he figured out the double helix structure.The 5 Greatest Things Ever Accomplished While High (Cracked.com)
the latest
latest episodes
Too bad it is a comedy magazine, but yes, that's the story of Judaism, in a nutshell.
Learn More:
http://www.amazon.com/Sacred-Mushroom-Cross-Christianity-Fertility/dp/0340128755
Crick did not 'discover' DNA. He helped solve the structure of DNA (the double helix). Better story: Kary Mullis claims to have received the details for his nobel-prize winning invention of PCR from a raccoon while on LSD.
And how many graduate degrees do we owe to speed in all its various forms?
Somebody forgot about jazz. Without the time-bending effects of marijuana and other substances, syncopation and improvisation of the kind that came to define huge swaths of the genre would surely have been non-starters...
bull shit! Though I have taken many drugs, to attribute the legitimate discovery of the double Helix to drugs is offensive to the creative mind that made the discovery. I know many people who take LSD and the only thing they have ever discovered is their hand.
#1 is really offensive. Did you need to repeat that here?
You know it was making sense until the cornerstone of Abrahamic religion is scoffed at.
I hate people that make fun of the Prophets or God.
Because the number ONE thing on that list is the realization of the Creator while one is tripping face.
OH YES, BTW You can "discover" the double helix structure when you stare at a lake/river/ocean at night as the lights shimmer off the surface.
If you look through the shimmering light, you will see a DNA strand spinning.
FYI, I am not on drugs right now.
LSD? Is that what we are calling Rosalind Franklin now?
Welcome to the internet. You do not have a right to not be offended. Please enjoy your stay.
Please provide the sister post..... "Top Billion Things Never Accomplished While High Because Leaving The Bedroom At Your Parent's House Seemed Too Hard"
I smoke pot, and I've never done nuthin'!
I'll take out the trash tomorrow, ma!
Mantari: So I take it you're either ortho or conservative? No, I don't know any conservatives who would get irate about an on-topic comment linking to a book, and I don't know anyone who is really ortho who would bother to try and shame an apparent goyim on such a subject.
The notion that Moshe may have been tripping balls isn't inherently anti-god or anti-Jew.
never done drugs, don't want to do drugs , my brain is my livelihood as Mr. Mackey said drugs are bad
What about Paul Erdős , who credited speed with basically everything he accomplished?
Listen. MOSES would have never been able to accomplish all that he did if he was tripping on drugs.
He was "tripping" on the Truth.
No "druggie" [sorry friends] would be able to remember all the stuff God tells Moses to tell Pharaoh. He would not even remember how to get back to Egypt w/o calling Pharaoh every 5 minutes and asking him if it's a left or a right at the third light.
"bull shit! Though I have taken many drugs, to attribute the legitimate discovery of the double Helix to drugs is offensive to the creative mind that made the discovery."
Are you high? Read the title, "while high". No doubt the guy was brilliant.
#1 is really offensive. Did you need to repeat that here?"
Get over it. It's just pointing out Moses was high, not God.
#1 probably wasn't the most delicate way of describing it, yet quite a plausible explanation.
I reinvented vacuuming after snorting crystal. The LSD didn't do shit.
Wonder how Writing for the Onion missed out.
what?! no kubla khan?
@ Rossindetroit Erdos didn't start taking speed till he was 58 after his mother died. Are you saying he didn't accomplish anything till the age of 59-
Rossifumi:
Um....40 years in the desert, anyone?
@8: You took the words right out of my mouth. Big hearts.
#5 is the only one I'll even lease to you.
#4: Freud was one of many quacks who got lucky.
#3: Now I know who to blame for my extra weight and tooth decay.
#2: What about all those other people who did no-hitters sober? Worse, what about all those people who had to watch all those dreadfully boring hitless half-innings with only beer to nurse them through it?
#1: Would have been a great accomplishment if there were a God.
You can't forget Dr. Kary Mullis. His LSD trips inspired his development of the polymerase chain reaction (PCR), for which he won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry. PCR is what makes DNA testing possible.
There's a popular story among biologists that Kary Mullis came up with his Nobel Prize-winning ideas for perfecting the PCR while on LSD. Wikipeadia agrees, if you trust it.
For non-scientists: the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) basically a very efficient way to make copies of a DNA sequence. It's the cornerstone of modern genetic research techniques; without it molecular biology (and therefore forensics, medicine, immunisations, insulin production etc etc) would be decades behind where we are now. It's definately a big enough invention/discovery to rate inclusion on the list.
Kekule was rumored to have been high when he had his vision of a "snake eating its own tail", thus discovering the ring structure of benzene.
In a similar vein, there are persistent rumors that Kary Mullis was smoking out on the roof of the Cetus building when he thought up the principles behind PCR, for which he later received the Nobel Prize.
There is no proof for either of these claims, although Albert Hoffman claims that Mullis told him that "LSD helped him develop PCR". (Wired, 2006)
I personally think that smoking a little bit of pot gives you time to think, and smoking too much pot makes you take too much time to think.
I believe that w should include Kerry Mullis the inventor of Chain Reaction (PCR) that allowed the current genetics revolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis
His long term and frequent use of up to 1,000 mcg /week of LSD over the course of years earned him the ability to slip into an controled altered state at will.
PS DUMP MOSES from the list.
He didn't create the 10 Ten Commandments while under the influence.
There's NOTHING inspiring about those social rules he's said to have written or carved into those tablets.
The best that can be said is that he was under the influence when he "spoke to god while watching a burning bush that wasn't consumed by the fire." The real trick was his being able to convince others that it was "real" and not just something imagined.
I'm a freaking ATHEIST and yet I know this stuff better then the author!!!!
While we're at it WTF? #2 Dock Ellis???
Fucking Moronic having that up there.
It says so much just by looking at your top two about the author
and getting them both wrong. Many other people have thrown no hitters it's nothing so special as a revolutionary inspiration.
40 Years of wandering, not laying back and chilling out on Myspace.
40 years of hardcore desert living is not for the druggie.
Maturin@10: "Please provide the sister post..... 'Top Billion Things Never Accomplished While High Because Leaving The Bedroom At Your Parent's House Seemed Too Hard'"
Please provide the other sister post....."Top Trillion Things Never Accomplished Without Having Any Excuse Whatsoever"
The report is neither offensive nor inoffensive.
That's not the issue. It's just in error.
Moses [מֹשֶׁה, Mōšeh] was at least 6th plane (if not fully God-realized) and as such was utterly beyond the effects of any chemicals or plants or mushrooms.
Anyone who says he was eating mushrooms to get high, or to find God, is *ahem* mistaken.
It's a pity to see cocaine's 'high' and LSD's transcendental state equivocated. Describing psychedelics in terms of 'being high' is sort of missing the point.
@ Alkwerte, ... smoking a little bit of pot gives you time to think, and smoking too much pot makes you take too much time to think.
Duuuuuuder!
Comedy Magaziiiiinnnnnneeee!!!!!!!!
You people need to mellow out.
Who sees burning bushes sober? Nobody.
PAULM@19: A hell of a lot of SNL sketches were written while high (possibly the majority) but I don't think that quite makes the list either, comparatively. -Just sayin'.
DOUG117@32: What kind of scientology B.S. is that?
BTW, Francis Cricke looks high in that photo!
@#37 Ain't scientology. But not B.S. of any kind.
Once, I figured out how to get free cable while high. Could that at least make the top 10 list?
Rossifumi: Nice passive-aggressive use of all caps. Is it somehow offensive when a person uses proper translated spelling of Moshe's name?
I love it when someone who is clearly not a Jew tries to correct me on something like that.
Doug117: WTF is this level 6 stuff? It's not in the Torah at all.
And as to it being b/s about taking hallucinogens to find god, well you should read up on some ethnobotany, and cultural anthropology. Because getting high to see god is a pretty ancient and honored concept among nearly every ethnicity.
Doug, sounds like some serious blab to me too. Sources please, and cross-referenced opinions from scholars would be useful too.
Crick denies the LSD "support" (and there are questions about how much of a contribution their female x-ray crystallographer technician contributed). Mullis does not deny the LSD story.
Wow, Some people on here need to chill out and maybe even go read the actual article. No one is saying drug use is the only way to do anything good. Plenty of people have invented stuff or accomplished great things while sober, but Francis Crick admits to being inspired while on LSD, so just deal with it. You can't go back and make him sober just so you feel better about it. Also, pitching a no-hitter under any conditions is really frigging tough and deserves to be on that list.
#16-- I think by definition, God IS high; one can't get any higher than that.
I picture a bearded man in flowing robes seated upon a celestial throne of clouds and stars, saying "Dude, I am SO high!"
One time when me was high, me sold me car for like 24 chicken McNuggets.
That cracks me personal top ten. The car needed a new clutch, the AC wasn't working, and wouldn't even start. And me was really hungry at the time.
Hey... they omitted Hector Berlioz, early 19th Century French composer, who wrote his "Sinfonie Fantastique" while abusing opium. (He was pining away for an actress who wouldn't give him the time of day.) Although he had a terrible time getting it performed (huge orchestra, unusual instruments, odd rhythm patterns, sound effects, very long, who is this "Berlioz" guy anyway and why should we perform his music), it eventually was premiered. The English critics ripped it to shreds, but the French thought it was... okay. The actress heard about it and married him. The marriage was a disaster, but at least it got Berlioz to kick the opium habit completely.
Unfortunately, he never quite wrote anything as interesting or popular after that!
"Sinfonie Fantastique" went on to become one of the most-recorded pieces of music ever, and is regarded as the "White Album" of the 19th Century. It's the first symphony since Beethoven to use a recurring theme (which Berlioz called a "fixed idea" --- in French of course; I can't get accents on this machine); the first instance of the Gregorian chant "Dies Irae" appearing out-of-context; and one of the few pieces for which violinists will voluntarily tap the strings with the backs of their bows.
I'm sure there are lots of other examples of great things done while high: plenty of comedy, writing, music and art, scientific insights, economic theory, social theory, engineering, etc. And from around the world, LOTS of religious insight, whether you believe your own faith is rooted in a drug experience or not.
But at the same time there are plenty of examples of horrible things done while high: the Tate-Labianca (Manson Family) murders, addicts robbing their friends and families, the music of Phish, bad hygiene, etc.
Drugs are just another tool that can be used for good or evil.
It's silly to say "Francis Crick Discovers DNA Thanks to LSD". Perhaps he did take acid, and certainly he did co-discover the structure of DNA, but the latter accomplishment unfolded across many months of devoted and laborious effort.
It's perhaps not the greatest accomplishment, but Samuel Taylor Coleridge attributed the writing of his famous poem 'Kubla Khan' to being on opium. Many other writers have used opium to enhance their writing.
Carl Sagan was more or less open about his own use of marijuana and how it inspired some of is scientific ideas.
Pitching a no hitter IS really tough
but it's not revolutionary or significant in any way except to DISPROVE the anti drug hype that was being pandered around.
It's not a greatest thing... just difficult.
Personally i believe that LSD's use might have made it easier for him to focus and "flow" in a taoist sense with the activity of pitching the game.
RE: Moses and the Monothestic religions.
Whatever. It's more than likely that all the major religions are inspired by an Entheogen induced mind state or via "physical stress".
The Ark of the Covenant was nothing more than a fungal fruiting chamber. The jewish religion is a MUSHROOM CULT. Same with the early Christians... look it up.
http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ark+of+the+Covenant+mushroom&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
@#41 42
The concepts are from Vedanta, Sufism, Buddhism.
The ancient stuff.
A few references:
Meher Baba (almost any reference will do)
Baba Ram Dass (aka Richard Alpert) author of Be Here Now
Allen Cohen
Christopher Isherwood (author of many books about the quest for God.)
you could balance the list with eg. five convicted murderers who were on amphetamines or LSD at the time, (etc.) there's plenty of them.
Drugs aren't universally bad under every conceivable circumstance, mmkay, and some people prove able to manage the risks.
(injuring yourself or someone else while high, overdosing on some drugs, getting caught by law enforcement...),
but some people aren't.
Spend a weekend in an A&E department and see the evidence of this wheeled through the door.
Probably doesn't make sense to jail people for using drugs, but drugs aren't very glamorous or especially wonderful or interesting either, IMHO.
More Nature articles by Penn & Teller!
(sorry if that's too square for boing-boing)
Kary Mullis one of the pioneers in developing PCR, Polymerase Chain Reaction on of the major tools in Molecular Biology credits LSD for the discovery.
From Wikipedia; "In a Q&A interview published in the September 1994 issue of California Monthly, Mullis said, "Back in the 1960s and early '70s I took plenty of LSD. A lot of people were doing that in Berkeley back then. And I found it to be a mind-opening experience. It was certainly much more important than any courses I ever took." [15] During a symposium held for centenarian Albert Hofmann, Hofmann revealed that he was told by Nobel-prize-winning chemist Kary Mullis that LSD had helped him develop the polymerase chain reaction that helps amplify specific DNA sequences."
Doug,
you produce me a person who is 'elevated' to the point of being immune to the effects of all 'chemicals, plants and mushrooms'
and who is willing to have this scientifically tested, and then we'll talk. Until then I'm consigning you to 'crackpot', but with a scientific, open mind which would be happy to be proven wrong. Just bring me some evidence.
It's Cracked magazine. It's like the antithesis of "take this seriously."
Sure there were some errors and bad assumptions, but I enjoyed the five minutes I spent reading it.
I don't get the people railing against this list because people have done mundane or bad things while on drugs. Um, how would a list of the mundane and boring things that people do while sober be different. Mundane and terrible are two attributes of human beings independent of drug use.
What's funny and interesting about the list, in an amusing way, is that some people do manage to get some useful and interesting things done while intoxicated, which is counter to popular perception and the logic of the war on drugs.
@#55 I myself can't produce any evidence of anything let alone this.
However, you can read an account of Richard Alpert meeting his guru, Neem Karoli Baba. (http://www.ramdasstapes.org might be a site you can reference.)
Alpert had some LSD (tabs) in his possession. The guru said (I paraphrase) "Give me the medicine." And then ate the acid. Alpert was frightened that it would trip the old guy out, but nothing happened. The guru later explained he's way beyond chemicals.
Even an advanced yogi is beyond.
If God is there at all, he's beyond all of creation. If the Guru is God, he is also beyond all of creation.
I don't think there is any proof one way or another of anything spiritual. If you want a scientific proof, you're probably not going to find one.
I don't know if Richard Alpert is alive, but you might try to contact him if he is. Or listen to the tapes.
Shrooms and MJ: It's what brains crave.
Before condemning "drugs" consider that they are not all the same.
I will agree with eliminating Grateful Dead music.
But what about "People LIKE this music when they're high!" ? Surely when Jerry figured that out, he was baked.
They imply the coca that was the same as cocaine. Coca leaf is a mild stimulant. I doubt very much that the makers of Coca-Cola were coke heads.
Isolated cocaine was a relatively new at that time and just started to be used medicinally. Plus, the original recipe called for "a pinch of coca leaves," not pure cocaine.
From Wikipedia: The only known measure of the amount of cocaine in Coca-Cola was determined in 1902 as being as little as 1/400 of a grain (0.2 mg) per ounce of syrup (6 ppm)
Doug,
I'm afraid that unsubstantiated claims by one individual are worthless here, but scientific evidence would be simple to obtain. Bring a high level yogi who claims to be beyond the influence of chemicals to a lab. Have him/her subjected to various chemicals known to have a measurable effect on a human (tranquilizers etc.) and monitor the effect. If this person exhibits none of the known effects of the drug, then we have the basis to begin an exploration of the phenomenon. How hard is that. Whether you believe this person to be 'beyond' anything is irrelevant - we are looking for actual, real world effects here.
I'm afraid that unsubstantiated claims by one individual are worthless here
Why would anyone feel the need to prove anything to you? And when did you submit the rule book for approval?
Antinous,
By 'here' I meant in this regard, and the rule book is not set by me but is simply a simplification of the scientific method. I did not suggest that anyone should feel the need to prove anything to me, but that offering anecdotes does not provide any sort of 'proof' as the poster was claiming.
#61
Coca-Cola was developed by a Pharmacist that had ready access to high purity cocaine HCL.
I kinda get the feeling that there was a bit more cocaine and coca alkaloids in the average dose of Coke at that time.
Like I'm also sure that there's other stimulants that were added in addition to straight caffeine.
While I think Doug is full of it, I too am getting tired of the "skeptic" blowhards.
Science can only ever explore a limited layer of existence, and there is no reason discussion of everything else should suddenly be outlawed.
Doug suggested that there was a real world effect of this level of spiritualism. I suggested that this effect could be examined scientifically, not that the spiritual itself could be. There doesn't seem to be any element of a 'blowhard' in that.
Rik,
It's philosophy. It doesn't come with proof. Describing someone's philosophy as 'worthless' is not very friendly.
"Alpert had some LSD (tabs) in his possession. The guru said (I paraphrase) "Give me the medicine." And then ate the acid. Alpert was frightened that it would trip the old guy out, but nothing happened. The guru later explained he's way beyond chemicals."
This is not philosophy. This is a statement that a person has elevated themselves, through some means, above the effects of chemicals. Anecdotes regarding this are worthless in as far as establishing the veracity of the claim. If I had said 'you are full of it' then I would indeed be being unfriendly, as you seem to be in twisting my comments. What I said was that I was happy to have my opinion on the matter altered through the presentation of actual evidence of such an ability.
I did not say that such a thing could not happen. I did not say that his philosophy is balls. I did not say that anyone who believed in the spiritual is foolish. You, on the other hand, have painted me as an atheistic fascist. I think you have misplaced the 'unfriendly' label.
@#62 I know how to carry out the testing you suggest -- I just don't have the wherewithal to do it.
My "claim" is not limited to myself. You can find 1000s of similar claims. Verification is another matter.
The subject of whether you can "prove" spiritual matters is age-old.
P.S. I am not asking anyone to "believe" me with or without checking -- I'm just throwing ideas at you.
Eric@66 & Antinous@67
Whilst Rik may have been pushing Doug a little hard, I think there is validity in chasing down the facts behind the statement:
"Moses .. was at least 6th plane (if not fully God-realized) and as such was utterly beyond the effects of any chemicals or plants or mushrooms."
..which started the conversation in question.
Let me state: I'm skeptical. Not a blowhard though (and I think that phrase was a bit harsh for the situation). An unprovable/unknowable claim was made, some people called it. What's not to be skeptical about?
I'm not sure Doug's statement, above, is reflecting any philosophy, other than projecting his beliefs onto unknowable situations, and calling them facts (I wasn't sure philosophy dealt in 'facts', as such).
Now, maybe Doug's beliefs coincide with a belief that Moses was a yogi of some sort, and was somehow beyond the reach of chemical affect.. but that's the sort of thing we normally question here on BB, eg. creationist claims, psychics, etc.
I'd question the certainty with which Doug has related these facts, without once feeling I was stepping on his actual beliefs of the possibility of Moses having achieved the GodHead.
I think Rik was really only challenging the notion that people can somehow tune their conciousness away from the effects of drugs, and then suggested ways to test that. No philosophy bashing there.
Sorry Doug, I wasn't suggesting that you personally carry out such testing. That would be rather harsh and obviously beyond your means. What I was suggesting is that those who make such claims should, if they want anyone to believe them, offer up actual evidence. I'm also not asking them to prove the spiritual as that is, by definition, beyond the realm of the scientific. Science can neither prove, nor disprove, the spiritual. However when people claim (like Uri Geller) to be able to create real world effects through spirituality, then those claims can be offered up for scientific scrutiny.
Thanks Arkizzle - you've managed to eloquently convey that which I was attempting to clumsily hammer into coherent form!
But, Ark, it's just not a fact-based statement. It hinges on a philosophical view of the fundamental nature of reality. They don't make a big enough test tube for that experiment.
I disagree. The crux is not about spirituality or the possibility of resisting chemicals, it's about Doug thinking he knows anything about Moses' mindstate. Not the nature of the universe, but the actual mindstate of one particular man, thousands of years ago.
I have no problem with people believing wonderful feats of mind and enlightenment are possible. The mind is an amazing thing, and stranger things have happened.
But Doug cannot tell us with certainty that Moses' was anything, because all we have are stories. And I'm pretty sure none of them are about him being able to resist the effects of all known drugs or chemicals, or being a 6th level yogi.
__
I'm happy to be wrong though, perhaps there is a long lost diary-scroll from Moses' college days. Relating the pain he suffers because try as he might, he just can't seem to get drunk or stoned on spring break.. bummer :D
@#75 and all ...
Nope I don't *know* anything about Moses except what I've read. I do trust my source though (Meher Baba, whom I consider God.)
My original assertion was about mushrooms actually. And it is the same source for that assertion as well.
there is no proof of moses' existence, beyond what the old testament says. there is no written record of the exodus or moses in egyptian lit.(papyrii or temple/wall carvings). there are, however, similar stories in the ancient babylonian/assyrian texts. cannabis is mentioned in the old and new testament, as mainly an herb which the holy annointing oil is derived. if moses had lived, he would have been raised to become an egyptian priest ( as he was not firstborn he would not be trained to become the next pharoh) thereby having intricate knowlege of psychoactive plants and fungi of the time.
Doug, Meher Baba doesn't *know* any more about Moses than the other theologians and scholars - who have studied the Bible for centuries. Trust him as you please, but it doesn't make it true.
#74: "It hinges on a philosophical view of the fundamental nature of reality. They don't make a big enough test tube for that experiment."
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence if they do want to be taken seriously. If someone wants to throw out such a claim (whether they are a guru or whatnot) they should expect to be not taken seriously by anyone who chooses not to take things on complete and non-reality-based faith. If the claim is based on spirituality, fine. It is a matter of faith. But if they are claiming that it has a empirical, physically measurable result, expect to provide some sort of proof.
How about approximately 75% of the Beatles' catalog being written on (and likely thanks to) drugs??
Meher Baba?
He was separated at birth from the silent actor Ben Turpin.
6. Albert Hofmann discovers LSD while tripping on LSD. Now how lucky is that?
RIKF,
Baba Rum Dum also gave a hit to another one of those old cats, who asked him: ''How do I get some more of this?''
#82 - what on earth are you whittering on about?!
Ark,
If you believe that everything is formed of primordial consciousness, then anyone can, ultimately, access anything. It's still a philosophical issue.
Rik.. that's a joke.
Admittedly hampered by the fact that the guy's name was really Baba Ram Dass, and the fact that Doug mentioned him rather than you. But funny none-the-less.
In fact, it could be an anecdote, for all I know, I didn't read the book :)
we all discover great truths while tripping. It's the select few that bring them back with them.
From Storming Heaven: LSD and the American Dream by Jay Stevens (1987):
note: Bhagwhan Dass was another westerner like Alpert, shortly before he became Baba Ram Dass following this episode.
"One day Bhagwan Dass announced that it was time to visit his guru. They borrowed a car and drove one hundred miles to a little temple in the Himalayan foothills where, as soon as the vehicle came to a stop, Bhagwan Dass leapt out, tears streaming down his face, and disappeared up a mountain path, running swiftly. Alpert followed, as he had been doing for months, but reluctantly. He was beginning to have second thoughts: whatever magic this giant surfer had acquired, it wasn't rubbing off. And the sight of Bhagwan's guru, a tiny little man sitting on an ordinary blanket contemplating the enormous blonde American who was prostrate at his feet, did nothing to reassure him. The first question the man on the blanket asked Alpert was whether he was a rich American, and when Alpert replied that he did okay, the man immediately asked for a car. Alpert was taken aback -- 'I had come from a family of fundraisers for the United Jewish Appeal, Brandeis and the Einstein Medical School and I had never seen hustling like this.' The meeting was shaping up as grist for one of his comic monologues, a great story if and when he played the Village Gate again, but then the guru started talking about Alpert's mother, dead not quite a year, and he correctly diagnosed that her death had been caused by complications of the spleen. Alpert had been in control up to this point, but now his head began to swim, he felt a violent pain in his chest and he began to cry: 'I wasn't happy and I wasn't sad. The only thing I felt like was that I was home. The journey was finished.'
"Or almost finished. The psychologist in Alpert required one more proof. The next morning he gave the little man three of Owsley's best, 900 micrograms, and sat down to wait ('The little scientist in me says, "this is going to be very interesting." '). But Bhagwan's guru just twinkled at him as though nothing out of the ordinary was taking place. No Doors opening in my mind, thank you, because they're already wide open. The guy was permanently high, Alpert realized, and that's exactly how he wanted to be."
Antinous, that sentence could win any argument you threw at it :)
How ever you want to stretch it, I don't think Doug's point was philosophical. I think he read some ideas about Moses from Meher Baba etc. and took it as informed opinion. Then he came here and put it out there, as a fact. Or, for all I know, it's his own theory. But it was still put out as a factual notion.
I (amongst others) logically jumped on a fairly spurious claim, and asked for facts. Same as every other time we do in our discussions here.
There is no philosophical issue when creationists say the world was made 8000 years ago, and we say prove it. There is no philsophical issue when someone randomly attributes unknowable things to a long dead possibly-imaginary character, and we say prove it.
I can say Moses' favourite pastime was eating strawberry yoghurt off pink dragonflies arses. But unless I can substantiate it with documentary evidence, no amount of 'primordial consciousness' will prove it to anybody.
I think you are defending something (valiantly and correctly) that has very little to do with Doug's original (perhaps throw-away) comment.
On that note, I salute you, my beautiful leige, and wave my white flag at thee.. ⚐
John:
Storming Heaven is a great book! :)
An anecdote it is, Arky. He told that story (and the earlier one) at speaking gigs. He didn't mind the ''Rum Dum'' either.
''whittering'... that's a new one on me.
Indeed!
Ark,
I'm not saying that you're wrong. It's just an argument that can't ever have a conclusion, so why bother? If you know that there can't possibly be proof, what's the point of asking for it?
I see a lot of ignorant comments about the use of certain natural chemicals, unless you have personally had the experience of psilocin dissolving your ego and helping to understand some new and profound perspectives, I don't think it's very fair to comment like you do know what is going on. I suggest such people read up carefully on the issue and perhaps experiment carefully themselves.
I know it was rhetorical, but I suppose I asked for proof originally because I didn't know it couldn't-possibly-be-proven until the conversation was had, and Doug had revealed his sources.
However now that I know..
*zip* :)
It is truly a shame that the boingboing team often feels it necessary to mock and ridicule religious concepts on this site. It obviously is a very gifted group of well-read and creative researchers and commentators who should know much more about these topics before commenting on them.
Why publish baseless, emotional comments such as #1? They are sophomoric and do little but exemplify an oppressive culture of intellectual laziness, arrogance, and I-can-say-whatever-I-feelness.
If the writer was deprived until this point of knowledge of the basic tenets of Judaism, he should do us and himself a favor: Go learn.
Moses didn't come up with the ten commandments. They are lifted right from the code of Hammurabi. Many of the texts in the Bible are from a variety of sources. The book of Job being a good example. Claiming that ancient Judaism was a mushroom cult though seems is a bit of a stretch if you ask me. The book linked to above seemed to be a little sensationalist.
First they laughed at the Scientologists, and I laughed because I wasn’t a Scientologists.
Then they laughed at the Christians, and I laughed because I wasn’t a Christian.
Then they laughed at the Jews, and I laughed because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they laughed at me, but then the Mossad arrived and blew them all to hell for making fun of the Jews.
posted by ploni:
''Go learn.''
But we have you to teach us! Tell us again about the iminent coming of the Messiah Sam Walton.
Lol'd at #13.
Ys, n fct, cld tch y qt bt.
Prblm s, th rrgnt wll nvr lrn. t's th hmbl nd th rcptv wh grw grt nd d grt thngs.
(nd, ys! Tht's rlgs cncpt.)
That was an article on a humor website, not from a serious news organization or scientific research team.
I think Boing Boing did right by informing us this was the case in the very first word of their post... "Cracked.com..."
How about this one:
The origins of the Vedic religion? Hard to argue that one, I'd say, and it has a lot to do with the founding of Hinduism and Buddhism, which thanks to the roads opened by Alexander's empire, had a small or large (depending on who you ask) amount of influence on many western religions and philosophy.
Also Lou Reed largely credits Heroin for his discovery that everything is alllllllraight.
ploni,
Mind your manners.
Ploni, mind who you toss accusations of arrogance against, especially when you then offer a pearl of 'redemptive' wisdom.
There's a good reason the truly self-righteous lock themselves away and take vows of silence.
amen to that, md.
DOUG117 starting @33:
For my part, I just wanted you to credit your source. I apologize for labeling it BS. That was not respectful of your assertion.
I do not apologize for questioning it, however. I questioned it because I always have a problem with tags like "6th plane of godhood" because they are human assignations. Do you think God labels his levels of godhood? I too have read extensively of Ram Das' works and done a lot of my own experimentation and communion. Have you read any Robert Anton Wilson? Methinks you might be blurring the map with the territory to say unequivocally that "Meher is God" in this context. I don't dispute that, but I would say that he is no more God than you or I.
It seems that the goal of stratifying different levels of consciousness is to say: You are here. This guy over here who meditates 99% of his time is up on this level. If we are all one and we are all God, then what's the point of identifying such strata? Why does someone in his position need the ego boost? Can this person do things others can't? Sure, but then we all have our specialized talents. That's why we're here. We all have something unique to contribute to the greater good.
My point is that putting a guru on some pedestal is to not only cheat yourself, your own unique insights, which may be just as valid as his; but also that it contributes to the illusion that you are somehow apart from God by degrees. Ram Das himself said that one cannot be separate from the divine. One of the fundamental problems with organized religion, traditionally, has been the assertion that some men are more holy; more divinely in touch; more loved by God than others. None of us are in a position to quantify that for certain, and the assumption has caused a hell of a lot of pain and suffering down through the years. Perhaps it's time we stop this.
As an ordained Discordian Pope, I hereby declare that all who read this who wish to be, are also now Discordian Popes! (-Tell me entheogenic drugs weren't used to come up with this!)
"There ain't no guru who can see through your eye" -I Found Out by John Lennon
In addition to great music and literature inspired by experiences on drugs (as previously mentioned by some above) I would like to add to the list, the absolutely brilliant art of Alex Grey.
It was not my intention to label anyone here as arrogant.
The point I was trying to make--and I apologize if it was construed as vindictive--is that arrogance prevents us from receiving from others information that we might need to complete our understanding.
Please reread my previous post. I think you will see that I did not direct any vituperation on anyone specifically.
Again, I apologize if my words hurt or were offensive.
Phikus @ 107
Did you notice the number of your post? 7+0-1=6
which is 2X3.
2+3 = 5!!!!
spooky!
HAGBARD@110: Man, you must be really high right now...