Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the 6th man to walk on the moon, told a radio station yesterday that he knows for a fact that space aliens exist
and have visited Earth. From Wikipedia:
On July 23, 2008 Edgar Mitchell was interviewed on Kerrang Radio. Mitchell claimed the Roswell crash was real and that Aliens have contacted humans several times but that governments have hidden the truth for 60 years stating "I happen to have been privileged enough to be in on the fact that we've been visited on this planet and the UFO phenomena is real". In reply, a spokesman for NASA stated "NASA does not track UFOs. NASA is not involved in any sort of cover up about alien life on this planet or anywhere in the universe. Dr Mitchell is a great American, but we do not share his opinions on this issue."
Link has audio clips from show, as well as a NASA spokesman's bemused response.
Edgar Mitchell says aliens are real (Kerrang Radio, thanks Avi Solomon!)
Damn. This gave me a slight pause.
I'm not sure what to think of this. It sounds like he's just Looney Tunes. But at the same time, he's also walked on the moon one more time than I have...
Like Major Tom, Doctor Ed never really came back to Earth.
Mitchell later added, "not that they probed me or anything."
Frickin' LMPs, whaddya gonna do. You never hear this sort of thing from the CMDRs...(I kid, I kid).
I think in the abstract, the idea of life elsewhere is not so hard to swallow... As for visitors, that's a different story. I have a much harder time believing that. The government really has a hard time keeping secrets on things this big. Something like this would get out in more concrete form, I think.
Mindy
What's the point of spending billions of dollars looking for a drop of water when it is proven that actual life exists?
And, Does the timing of this and the x-files movie seem a little fishy?
Did 20th century Fox pay this dude?
And, can we get a picture of what he looks like now? It might help.
@7 The Aliens certainly didn't!
Mitchell's always been into some of the odder stuff. psychics and such.
And then there was James Irwin, 8th man to walk on the moon, who spent a fair amount of time looking for Noah's Ark.
Odd things happen to you when you land on the moon, apparently.
Even if true what does this change, we normal people have no access. Considering who they are choosing to talk to I guess aliens are not as cool as they are portrayed as in trendy sci-fi.
I Want to Believe.
better than Goat Staring
we don't need no moon cheese babies.
Best news I've heard all week.
Perhaps this is simply a teaser for the X-Files movie? ;p
But it would be horribly wonderful if this were true.
more recent image:
http://www.inrees.com/en/membres.php?page=5
This guy's been involved with ESP/psychic fringe stuff for a while. He claims that a remote healer cured his (undiagnosed) cancer. It's a small wonder that he's making these claims.
Read "Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer. In particular read the chapter about why smart people believe weird things. He has an interesting perspective on human beings as "belief engines" and I think it really pertains in this situation.
Not that aliens aren't real. I've sent my $30 to Bob and I fully expect to be ruptured up in the Pleasure Saucers on X-day when July 5, 1998 finally arrives. Praise Bob!
This is not new, he's been saying it for 30 years. I believe he even talks about it in "In the Shadow of the Moon".
Well, if he "knows for a fact" that's good enough for me. I know for a fact that my carpet yodels when no one is around.
Oddly enough I believe that the Moon Landing & Aliens are both fake, so I completely discredit Dr. Mitchell.
There's a lot more to the story than this Mitchell statement even suggests, according to this fascinating and hair-raising book Dark Mission. There's no way for any of us to prove or disprove these things, but it makes for an interesting (i.e. super-fun) read all the same. For starters, the whole "we never landed on the moon" conspiracy was presumably started by NASA themselves, at the time of the moon landings, as smokescreen to conceal other more insane things that were actually going on.
http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Mission-Secret-History-NASA/dp/1932595260/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216923098&sr=1-1
Well no, NASA isn't tracking UFO's, but that doesn't mean much and governments are very capable at keeping secrets. Mitchel may well feel he is certain, but again that doesn't help me out very much. I need, you know, evidence, and I haven't seen any.
That he is into ESP doesn't tell us much either, your government was certain it existed. Well enough to fund the Stargate project.
Nor would I put too much faith in the current fashion of atheistic scientism. Fads change.
You can trust him, because he's been on the Moon, for Pete's sake!
The moon landings are probably the most thoroughly documented human effort of the twentieth century. Just saying. Proves nothing, I *guess*.
@18: How do you know that yodeling carpets *aren't* the aliens he's talking about? Hmm?
and... Dark Mission? What are you smoking? I suppose, though, it's comforting to know that crazy people read Boing Boing too. Crazy people always have the best pills.
Mitchell is one of many astronauts who not only believe in the UFO's being visitors, but also tht the goverment is covering it up. Gordon Cooper, Ken Mattingly, Charlie Duke, and John W. Young have all seen UFOs.
Poke fun if you want. But these are all highly trained, reputable men who've reported mutliple sightings on space flight missions.
It's a sobering thought.
Big claims require big evidence. Heresay and shakey videos are not even small evidence.
Well I submitted a comment earlier but BOINGBOING NEVER PUBLISHED IT!!! (maybe they unpublished it? ;)
If that's not proof of a vast conspiracy of alien intelligence operating under the guise of "a directory of wonderful things" I don't know what is.
By the was "a directory of wonderful things" is really an anagram for "Alien Confided: 'worry fogs truth'"
Put THAT in your pipe and smoke it.
It's not a sobering thought when you remember the technical definition of UFO. I can't identify everything I see but I'm not jumping to conclusions, either.
Everyone in has seen a UFO. I don't think UFO means what you think it does.
Whoops, they didn't actually edit out my earlier comment, I just didn't see it. But I'm sticking with my conspiracy theory anyway, since I've grown fond of it in the five minutes that it's existed. Can anyone help me out with some corroborating evidence? BoingBoing is run by aliens! What kind of name is Xeni anyway? Only Wayne Manzo knows the truth!
@25: An appeal to authority is insufficient. If it were sufficient, then there would be weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Look at Linus Pauling. Brilliant man, became a complete loon in his later years. Just because you're trained and 'reputable' doesn't mean that you are innoculated from human frailty. This is why we have science - to compensate for human error.
They may very well have seen what they *believe* to have been an alien. That doesn't mean that that was what they saw.
c'mon people... I'm disappointed that so many folks are asleep on this issue. Just confirms why the issue hasn't gone mainstream, because ignorance IS bliss. And the masses would just panic if the truth were revealed...
Any genuine investigative research will reveal that NASA has long suppressed knowledge of et's. Due to compartmentalization, many within NASA are out of the loop, yet it's clearly evident that NASA habitually lies about et's.
Check out some of these interviews at Camelot project on You Tube here...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=camelot+project&search_type=&aq=f]camelot project
Yes, there's some far out stuff that will glaze your eyeballs, but some of these folks have experienced some genuine encounters. I would watch some of these clips first: Richard Hoagland, John Lear, George Green, Gordon Novel
This planet is infested with et meddlers... some good and some not so good... I dare you to Wake Up.
don't worry Pahool, your comment is safe. And if you wish to remain safe you will deposit the agreed funds in the specified Swiss account.
#21 Hey, I'm not advocating atheistic scientism. I'm advocating radical agnosticism!
pahool, there's somewhat of a difference between a rupture and The Rapture, IMHO.
yeah, just how big a truss would ya need for the Rapture?
"I flew my rocket to the moon and I saw aliens! They looked alot like us, only most of them were shorter. Some of the bigger ones would give the smaller ones long brown sticks which the little ones would devour. After eating one of the sticks I found that they were delicious even to my human mouth! The shorter aliens would then run around and latch on to aliens of a different variety. A much larger type of alien that looked remarkably like various Earth animals. A large dog, a big duck, and even a giant mouse-like creature. I've been there! I saw them!"
"No, Dr. Mitchell. You're remembering last year when The Home for Crackpot Astronauts took its anual trip to Disneyland and you rode on the Space Mountain and ate a Churro. It's time for your meds now, Dr. Mitchell. There's a good boy."
@32: Good lord. Richard Hoagland? You cite him? Have you no idea how nuts he is? He lives somewhere, but it certainly isn't the real world.
@35: I take it you are unfamiliar with the Church of the SubGenius?
In Bob We Trust
#35 The Unusual Suspect, Absolutely! There's a HUGE difference! It was not a typo.
#33 uh-oh, they're onto me...
Life, being natural, will arise wherever it naturally should.
It is only by belief in the supernatural that that statement becomes controversial...
As to UFOs, personally like the Courts I accept testimony as evidence...people have seen things, they do not know what, ..so far so good...they think maybe that....stop there, now we are into opinion...
UFOs yes, good evidence for the existence of those strictly-so-called but assertions of alien beings are an inference too far..at least for me...some may have better/other evidence, eg their own eyes (however without scrutiny by others mistaken conclusions are more possible based on such ), or such may only be what they, by their lights, consider to be good evidence, others might well disagree...so as to alien visitors I'm more agnostic, that is, skeptical ...
It's illuminating to listen to the WHOLE interview!
Stream:
http://ufonotebook.vox.com/library/post/edgar-mitchell-we-are-not-alone.html
Torrent:
http://www.mininova.org/tor/1626509
By the way, I do trust Dr. Mitchell (He was kind enough to reply to my questions). Wouldn't recommend telling Dr. Mitchell to his face that the moon landings were faked:)
"I'm advocating radical agnosticism!"
as long as you work toward reaching a decision. Agnosticism is fine while you're working toward a conclusion, but i disagree with "permanent agnosticism in principle"
#44 I'm not so sure about that...
I'm sorry but why is NASA making a statement? Did Dr. Mitchell say NASA had anything at all to do with this? Launching rockets does not mean that NASA would have any interest in or knowledge of aliens. May as well get a denial from the IRS too.
If Mitchell were the only one saying this I might share the skepticism, but there are literally hundreds of others who have been in positions of authority in the military and air traffic realms who have said the same thing. If fear of the unknown doesn't cause you to be close-minded about this, you should look up the web page for The Disclosure Project and watch the video of the National Press Club Press Conference that they sponsored. Whereas Mitchell sounds like he only has second hand knowledge of this issue, the press conference had many first hand witnesses describing their experiences with the alien presence. These were not wide-eyed nut jobs. These were some of the most sober, responsible people that you can find in society. Scoff, ridicule and deny if that is what keeps you comfortable, but that won't change the reality.
What is most sad about this is that, as highlighted in The Disclosure Project's material, there are technologies in the hands of our government that would totally replace the use of fossil fuels and be pollution free. Yet the type of fearful close-mindedness displayed in most of the comments here plays right into the hands of the criminals who are keeping such technology under wraps for their own profit and power.
Wake up people. Give the evidence a chance. If you love the Earth and humanity, watch this video and then tell me that only kooks believe in aliens.
pahool,
We're not getting a clear feed from your implants. Two agents will be at your house in fifteen minutes to probe you and make some adjustments.
Of course NASA isn't tracking UFOs -- that's because they can't be tracked. Duh. If UFOs were real and NASA were hiding them, that's exactly what they would say!
#47: Give the evidence a chance. If you love the Earth and humanity, watch this video and then tell me that only kooks believe in aliens.
It's a matter of energy and time (this is not a pun). Supralight transport of matter is impossible, no matter how much dimensional-fuggaboo one applies. To move the weight of a person at a net-supralight rate would require multiple solar-lifetime outputs for any significant (that is, super-lightyear) distance.
We'll never meet intelligent alien life in the manner of our fiction. Never. Give up on it, and spend your energy on something else.
@47: You can find hundreds of people to provide first-hand anecdotes in support of any opinion imagineable. If that were enough, we'd have proof that the earth is flat, that Jesus routinely appears as images impressed upon foodstuffs, that the sun revolves around the earth etc.
What you refer to is meaningless. It's an appeal to authority. These people are just as flawed as anybody else.
Why do ask others to wake up when it is you that is asleep?
how about unintelligent life?
Believing in aliens is fine and even common sense, but apparently this guy's been into ESP and the paranormal for decades:
http://xoomthetruth.blogspot.com/2008/07/dr-edgar-mitchell.html
There's still people who believe the moon landings were faked?
"If you have not seen a UFO in your lifetime, you are either unobservant, or live in a cloudy area."
"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."
"I'm sure the universe is full of intelligent life. It's just been too intelligent to come here. Well, it can't hide forever -- one day we will overhear it."
"The fact that we have not yet found the slightest evidence for life — much less intelligence — beyond this Earth does not surprise or disappoint me in the least. Our technology must still be laughably primitive, we may be like jungle savages listening for the throbbing of tom-toms while the ether around them carries more words per second than they could utter in a lifetime."
-Arthur C. Clarke
Mujaddy,
If you have all knowledge that exists,I might give credance to your premise of impossibility. However, I would wager that we don't know every conceivable facet of physics at this time. Just as scientists of times past pronounced 'IMPOSSIBLE' certain other things that we see in common use today, I think that it is folly to assume that something is impossible when we don't have all possible knowledge.
I, for one, welcome our new alien overlords.
Of course NASA doesn't track UFOs. NASA knows what they are so they're identified flying objects.
Unless somebody proves that he's not in need of money for a mortgage, medical bills or wanting to help grandchildren through college, I will not listen anything he has to say.
#56 Harvey:
Mujaddy,
If you have all knowledge that exists,I might give credance to your premise of impossibility.
Thank you for your support.
However, I would wager that we don't know every conceivable facet of physics at this time.
I'll take that bet ;)
Just as scientists of times past pronounced 'IMPOSSIBLE' certain other things that we see in common use today, I think that it is folly to assume that something is impossible when we don't have all possible knowledge.
On the contrary, everything we know (and particle scientists learn more of every day) points us in the direction that supralight movement of matter, even via teleportation, is even more difficult than anyone previously appreciated. This is not a resignation to "impossibility" but rather is a sober, educated estimation of the difficulties involved.
I will gladly accept reality as it is; if I turn out to be wrong, I will accept my incorrectness.
...I (and the friend who was driving with me) have seen something that was definitely an Unidentified Flying Object, but I cannot ascribe it to being extraterrestrial merely because it was unidentified and inexplicable.
#48, If I promise to take off my tinfoil hat, can we forgo the adjustments? I don't mind the probing so much...in fact, I kinda like it.
@ #60
Going faster than the speed of sound was probably stupid hard to even imagine back in the 1500s.
Just trying to bring it all into perspective.
Going faster than the speed of sound was probably stupid hard to even imagine back in the 1500s.
Apples & cannonballs. There was no *math* showing why you couldn't travel faster than sound, was there?
There's lots of math showing why you *can't* travel faster than light.
#57: Brockman quote wins the day.
Why would NASA cover up a discovery that would increase their budget by orders of magnitude?
For that matter, why would the US Govt cover up something they could use as an even better excuse to convince us to trade liberty for "security".
When the CERN collider is fully operational, I think there will be some very interesting findings that will pave the way to a greater understanding of our wonderful, multifaceted universe/reality.
Until then, or some future date, I would not exclude out of hand the possibility of spacial warping that could be considered faster than light travel and therefore that intelligent beings could travel vast distances relatively easily. That is, if dimensional travel is necessary at all. Maybe the beings reported by so many thousands of people are not from Alpha Centuri but from a different plane of existance.
There are far too many credible witnesses of this phenomena for me to dismiss it. Though I have never witnessed anything more than some distant points of light in the night sky, the individuals videotaped at the National Press Club meeting report having very explicit dealings with craft and their occupants. Time will tell, but I hope our societies don't collapse into war over the dwindling resources before the truth comes out.
More Arthur C. Clarke for ya, since it seems to be relevant to the current debate:
"If we have learned one thing from the history of invention and discovery, it is that, in the long run — and often in the short one — the most daring prophecies seem laughably conservative.
Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction. They may be summed up by the phrases: 1- It's completely impossible. 2- It's possible, but it's not worth doing. 3- I said it was a good idea all along."
mujadaddy is (sadly) correct. As has been proven by experiment and math alike, as you approach the speed of light, time slows down relative to the rest of the universe, and mass increases as well, therefore you cannot travel faster than the speed of light without having infinite mass, and being frozen in time (sort of, since those things are meaningless, you can approach the speed of light, but you can't exceed it at all)
There is no such mathematical principle preventing faster than sound travel and there never was. Indeed, light has always traveled faster than sound, so the "barrier" was obviously breakable. People who tell you new science continuously shows old science was wrong are either wrong, or trying to sell you a free-energy machine.
We continuously fill the gaps in our knowledge, and we continuously increase what we know we don't know, but that's not the same thing. Einstein refined Newton, but Newton's equations are still correct.
@33/wackyvorlon, that's all well and good, but these are trained technicians and in Mitchell's case--scientists--as well as having been rigorously tested for their physical and mental fitness.
Many of them are pilots. Even airline pilots have to have a certain number of hours under their belts to be trusted with flying giant, bloated gas tanks with dozens of people aboard. Astronauts undergo much more rigorous training and testing.
And if they are such "frail" individuals, why would they be put in charge of high-stress situations later in life--where lives are literally at stake. Mattingly's sightings occurred during the Apollo program and he was later certified to command two shuttle missions.
Don't forget that he was pulled from Apollo 13 because of "exposure" to measles (which he never contracted). So the they definately would have pulled him if he didn't pass the psychology requirements to fly. Sending him back up more than a decade later to lead two more missions is proof he's still got all his marbles.
Most importantly, NASA doesn't outright deny any of their allegations. The most they've said is that they "don't agree". That could mean they don't condone their outspokeness. But then again, disinformation does a world more good than actively trying to surpress it.
So... X-Files movie Viral campaign?
Scarybug wins the point, I think. NASA is all about funding, funding and more funding. My retired rocket scientist neighbor will attest to this (yes, that's my own appeal to authority). If there was any conceivable way of tracking UFOs or proving there were alien visitors or otherwise create budgetable items on this topic, NASA would be all over it to get the cash. I mean, come on, the only reason we have the lameass space station we do is so there'd be someplace for the shuttle to go, something for it to do, so NASA could keep getting money.
@cinemajay, did you actually read the article?
"NASA does not track UFOs. NASA is not involved in any sort of cover up about alien life on this planet or anywhere in the universe"
That's an outright denial. Right there. It was even in the summary.
...Kids, it's been pretty much accepted amongst the space history groups that Ed Mitchell went nuts sometime just prior to Apollo 14. The whole ESP "experiment" was a botched job to begin with - Ed failed to take into account a delay in his scheduled attempt to brainwave those damn symbol cards to some other nutjob back on Earth, caused by the three main problems encountered prior to landing with the LM, and as a result he was "transmitting" while the other guy wasn't paying attention. And he still claimed the "experiment" a success.
...He's not the only one who went nuts. As mentioned, Jim Irwin went on a religious nutter about as bad as Ed went on his ESP and UFO claims. Jim did go hunting for Noah's Ark, but never got anywhere near close because the Turks wouldn't let him anywhere near Ararat. It's like that goofball monastery where the Ark of the Covenant is supposedly stashed - if you let someone examine it, you'll blow the tourist trade. Had Jim been allowed to search for the Noah Boat, he'd have found nothing, just as the Turks have known for centuries.
...But if you think those two are bad, check out Gordo Cooper's book, Leap of Faith. Gordo was always a bit out there, but in his latter years he went completely loopy, and made most of the claims Ed did - NASA coverups, saucer demonstrations at Area 51, etc, etc - and the general reaction was the same. Totally, completely nuts he was.
Astronauts
If you've got about five minutes, this is worth watching and completely explains Dr. Mitchell's claims.
#66 Harvey:
I would not exclude out of hand the possibility of spacial warping that could be considered faster than light travel and therefore that intelligent beings could travel vast distances relatively easily.
Unfortunately, you'd have to drink a star every time you do it. Humans aren't the best example, but an *intelligent* species might consider killing stars a bit much for messing with technologically-backward species such as our own.
That is, if dimensional travel is necessary at all. Maybe the beings reported by so many thousands of people are not from Alpha Centuri but from a different plane of existance.
This is the most likely of the unlikely possibilities. There are scenarios where much less energy is required than is required to fold space. However... I'm skeptical that this kind of visitor would use a craft at all.
#6 posted by mindysan33:
While I think Edgar here is a bit of a nutjob, I have to say that this "government can't keep secrets" meme that's parroted everywhere is a statement not founded on fact. I've noticed the MSM loves to flippantly propagate that falsehood around and it's caught on over the years into the general public's zeitgeist.
Govt. UFOs and distracting crap like that aside...
The FOIA has shown numerous times where our government is quite capable of keeping heinous secrets from the general public until they are good and ready to declassify (some of) the information.
Also, I've seen firsthand in my experiences in D.C. where government employees will fall in line and not speak to the general public about secretive events they've witnessed out of fear of retribution (losing one's job, connections, reputation or worse). Sure, they may tell a few close friends and family of things they've witnessed, but that's a far cry from "going public".
For example, I had an acquaintance who worked in the Department of the Interior during the first Gulf War. When Bush Sr. was arriving via helicopter from somewhere (I don't remember where from), CNN reported (lied) that a group of general public well-wishers showed up to greet him and CNN aired video of a group of flag-wavers to a national audience. (keep in mind, this was back when CNN was HUGE... MSNBC (1996), FOX (also 1996), etc. didn't even exist back then).
In reality, it was my friend and other government employees who were literally ordered to show up there and were actually issued American flags to wave. It was a complicit mainstream media propaganda piece against the American public, pointblank. Our government and CNN working symbiotically to deceive the American public.
There, I've "exposed" an actual government secret. Now, let's see how many of those employees will come forward now and back me up. Yeah, right.
This country has a horrible track record of having a complicit corporate media that will marginalize whistleblowers and allow their lives to be quietly destroyed by government elements.
While info does slip through the cracks here and there... to say that the government has "a hard time" keeping secrets from the general public (with at least enough consensus to cause the public to actually act on the info) is simply not grounded on facts.
Case and point... The big NSA warrantless surveillance controversy that's going on right now? Out of all the many government agents involved, not one came forward to expose this heinous abuse of the American public's right to privacy.
It was random luck that a brave AT&T communications technician (and American patriot) Mark Klein found the NSA's spy room and came forward.
Think about it, out of all these numerous government agents participating in a blatantly illegal act against the American public NOT ONE spilled the beans... NOT ONE.
It took the random luck of a private outsider finding things odd and the extremely rare coincidence that said outsider was brave enough to come forward. Most are not.
Once again, while I think our astronaut Edgar here is pretty whacked and I'm not saying I think our Govt. is hiding UFOs and crap... I AM saying our government does NOT have a difficult time keeping big secrets (aside from some slippage here and there over time).
Shit, and I won't even get into my experiences handling the Republican National Committee account at a major bank I worked for... you wouldn't believe me anyway.
'but i disagree with "permanent agnosticism in principle"'
One can only draw valid conclusions based on the evidence available. There's nothing wrong with settling into "I don't know" for as long as it takes for the state of the evidence to change. Most of the time, believers and non-believers are just in the throes of predictable primate frustration when one refuses to wear either one jersey or the other. So they argue that you must choose one or else there's there's probably something wrong with you.
#66 posted by Harvey:
It's easy to reach other dimensions and make contact. Just take some DMT.
http://www.disinfo.com/content/story.php?title=Proof-Extradimensional-Aliens-Via-DMT
THAT NEIL GUY @71:
You seem to pre-suppose that NASA and the US Government by extension have fully disclosed their cash flow. Dr. Mitchell is not the only astronaut to have claimed to have seen UFOs or objects that moved in ways our current technology cannot. Indeed, former president Jimmy Carter, the only living president with any level of accountability intact, also had a UFO encounter, and he recounted this to the press while running for president.
As has been posited by many recent sci-fi works, including the X-Files, what if... The Roswell NM crash really happened, and what if the US Gov. recovered technology from the site and what if they managed to retro-engineer it and what if Area 51 has been a test site for black-ops development of said technology? The modern UFO might not be extra-terrestrial at all.
My point is that there is no way to really know for sure unless you work on related classified projects for the government, which Dr. Mitchell claims he has. You cannot disprove what he says. You can either choose to believe it based on your own experiences / sifting through available data, such as it is, or not.
It is interesting to me that more and more folks seem to be coming forward with such accounts, risking alienation (ahem) from mainstream society for doing so and seemingly without much to gain.
@#47 Thanks for the tip. I watched the video.
We have a lot of very credible, respected people
willing to swear before congress that they have seen aliens, alien craft, up close and in flight.
And also that we have acquired some of the technology, and that it can solve our energy problems, but we're sitting on it.
Hmmm...
I haven't seen an alien yet or even a credible picture of a craft. Until I do, I'm still skeptical! That we're sitting on technology I'm sure of.
Man, my posts are always are too long.
What I really wanted to say is that the Iraq invasion was actually a gambit to weaken the alien overlords' hold on the UN. The WMD was just a smoke screen.
If McCain is elected, he will build an inter-dimensional space fence to keep the aliens out. Obama will offer them amnesty.
I only said that the Hoagland book was "super-fun" to read and that there was more to THIS story, which is a story of counter-claims by people who have worked inside of NASA in the past and are now speaking out and asserting that there are—or have been—aliens among us.
I'm not citing Dark Mission as science or gospel... but I sure enjoyed the shit out of it.
Wait a minute, is this guy claiming he's "walked on the moon"? What an effin' nutjob!
Nn f ths chngs th fct tht skp ll f Xn's psts thr.
On to serious matters: Why would aliens collude with the U.S. government to keep things quiet? What, they're invested in treasuries too?
Funny that we're still using the same anthropocentric notions of aliens that we've inherited from bad 1950's sci fi. The odds of humanoid aliens arriving in saucers is remote- the possibility exists but really, there are so many vastly better methods of arriving here that are a) technologically plausible and b) scientifically possible. Starwhisps, von neumann machines, etc. are just a few of the currently imagined methods. We're also ignoring the idea of the singularity- since most alien races are likely to be either radically more primitive or vastly more advanced (think of a thousand year head start and realize the odds are that any advanced civ is going to be millions of years ahead of us) we shouldn't even try to force the alien question into the very narrow confines of our current tech.
Hell, a million years from now we could be harnessing the energy output of a galaxy, bending space-time into cohesive, self propogating units and fucking with the natives of a billion planets just to fill the time between 17-dimensional Idol and Lost.
The odds are that there are aliens out there and they're not coming in ships, saucers or anything else we'd understand. UFO phenomenon are far more interesting as psyche or cognition illuminators than legit SETI research. Aliens, when they come here are vastly more likely to arrive as microscopic replicators than anything as crass as an upside down coffee saucer.
One more comment before I leave the subject:
Yes, I couldn't agree more that trying to travel through space by translation through the 3 normal dimensions is impossible for anything of any significant mass. But is this the only way in which translocation can be accomplished? It may be the only way we know of now, with the understanding of the nature of physics that we have, but reality is a marvelous hall of mirrors that can hide incredible things, unexpectedly revealed with just a turn of the corner.
Our civilization may be as much as 10,000 years old, much of which was spent as pretty primitive agrarian village life. Only in the last 200 years or so have we been crudely industrialized and only for the past 50 years or so have we had a reasonably advanced technology. It is not at all unreasonable that there may be civilizations out in this galaxy that have been technological for hundreds of thousands of years. Considering how far we have come in the last 50 years, is it so hard to give credance to the possibility that a technology that has been researching and experimenting for a hundred thousand years might have found a way to circumvent 3 dimensional travel in favor of something more efficient? Thinking only in terms of current knowledge is a trap when it comes to declaring emphatically that something is impossible. To me, 50 to 60 years of technology and science compared to the possible extant of other civilizations' advancement is like someone starting a complex new job and by the end of day one feeling that they know pretty much all there is to know about it. Though they may have learned only the general basics, they have only scratched the surface of possibilities.
I don't think we know all there is to know about the fabric of reality but in another 1,000 or so years we should be starting to get a pretty good handle on it . . . . if our civilization survives the current crop of selfish, irresponsible leaders.
I'm confident Torchwood has it all in hand.
Agnosticism is sorta like science, isn't it? Even with a mountain of evidence, you can't be 100 % certain.
If that's what is meant by "radical agnosticism", then I'm a radical agnostic. I can't *know* the truth.
Do I believe that the US Government is not telling us that it believes it has evidence that Aliens have come to Earth or that they live amongst us on Earth?
Yes, I do.
But I also believe that the US Government also believed that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction.
"So they argue that you must choose one or else there's there's probably something wrong with you."
I never said that. But i said one should be working toward something, or at least content that other people are working toward something.
I'm agnostic on the idea of intelligent life, and I think we are working as a species toward finding out if it exists or not. So while i may remain agnostic for my own life span, the question may very well be temporary.
Now the invisible pink unicorn, being both wholly invisible and wholly pink, is an untestable hypothesis and does not deserve permanent agnosticism in principle. It can be dismissed and i don't have to feel bad about having made up my mind about it.
SEAMUSANDREWMURPHY@83:
Your hatred of Xeni is only exceeded by your ignorance. What the heck does that have to do with this thread? Nothing you post now can possibly be considered with any credulity (not that it ever was.) Please go away now to wherever "nutjobs" like yourself fade away. I promise we won't come bother you there.
I don't get it.
Catholics base their beliefs on speculation and they're considered "righteous".
Yet anyone who believes in aliens is automatically a whackjob.
Oh wait, they're both nuts.
I think jesus was an alien.
And that is why we should save the whales.
(Yay Star Trek!)
JRUCIFER@91:
According to Snakefinger (guitarist for the Residents,) Jesus was a leprechaun.
According to Frank Zappa, Jesus thinks you're a jerk (not you personally.)
Thanks for the link. Until now, I had no idea the vatican had astronomers. (What would Galileo think?)
I DID NOT HAVE AN ANAL PROBE! You guys are just trying to scare me.
I don't know why people think UFO's come from another planet. People have been seeing strange things in the skies for thousands of years and yet they've never resolved into something we can understand. These reports have always been of things or beings just out of our reach. I have no firm opinion one way or another but I do think one thing is very curious.
There are reports going back hundreds and even thousands of years of people who have witnessed battles in the sky. How is that possible? If our received history is true. That we are alone on this Earth and our technology has always been the dominant technology then how would it be possible for people to have witnessed a battle in the air?
"Relax Your Highness, it is just the wind moving the stars around."
Errrr no, there is no natural event, not even meteor showers, that could be mistaken for a battle. It cannot be, and yet it is. Unfortunately that is all we have and no further conclusions can be made.
Clearly touched by His Noodley Appendage:
http://www.venganza.org/
Neil Armstrong, however, simply noodled:
http://ukulelia.com/2003/02/hey-neil-armstrong-you-just-got-back.html
"Errrr no, there is no natural event, not even meteor showers, that could be mistaken for a battle. It cannot be, and yet it is. Unfortunately that is all we have and no further conclusions can be made."
one could postulate that the evidence is not factual.
@#90, hey there buddy, I guess your hatred for me is only exceeded by your ignorance. Well, whatever.
Didn't say I hated her by the way, that was you.
Do I wish to be credible? Well, I can't control that, than again, neither can you.
Take the salt out of your diet and relax a little. The world is big enough for teasing. You are too (and so is she).
I wish I could do italics in these comments. It makes insulting, sniping and snarking so much more aesthetic. I love the looks of it, especially in the morning. It looks...like...like...VICTORY! (Pretend ''victory'' is in italics.)
Antinous gives lessons