Artist taking commissions to pay for spider bite treatment
A poisonous spider bit artist Matthew Woodson, and the medical treatment is expensive. He's accepting commissions to offset the costs of the treatment, which is expected to last eight months. (Portfolio here)
On Monday of last week I was bitten by a yet unknown poisonous spider on my right knee. By Tuesday I was running a high fever and unable to walk. On Friday evening I collapsed and was rushed to the ER. After a series of x-rays and a whole lot of examination, I was informed that I had a rather large abscess and cellulitis due to the spider's bite. I was sent home early Saturday morning after having my knee surgically "drained", and in more pain than I have ever been in. After a doctor's appointment this Monday, another abscess was drained and I was informed that I would need to see a doctor weekly until the wound had healed, which could possibly take up to 8 months. Within these 8 months there will remain the very real threat of the infection spreading into the bone of my knee, as well as the possibility of blood poisoning.Kill Spiders, Buy Art (via Drawn)Any possible commission you could have for me; gifts, wedding invitations, cards, wall art, tattoos, anything. I am interested in the job. I will also definitely consider larger personal commissions, considering the work involved. I would prefer to only be working in black and white, but don't be afraid to ask about color. I haven't exactly figured out how pricing will go yet, but obviously pricing will be negotiable and varying, but for small to medium sized drawings I was thinking between $100 - $500 through paypal.
the latest
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Mark, the title, what is an artits?
ArTITS! well, lol. I guess this is serious, and Matthew's art is VERY stunning, it has a certain fragility, though not brittle, and is subtle and emotional, some works feel like moments frozen in time (e.g. I Held Your Head Against My Chest).
I like it very much but i'm afraid even for $100 i won't be able to afford anything at the moment :(
Arrtits = female pirate? :D
Seriously though that stinks.. at least he has a possible fundraising option unlike many people without health insurance.
Good luck to him. Unfortuantely I am too poor to help.
umm... I know I'm being dickish, but don't most people get health insurance to handle this kind of situation?
Not everyone can afford health insurance. Its VERY VERY costly particularly if you are trying to self insure AFAIK.
pugdaddy @5: What's wrong with offering your services in exchange for money to pay medical bills?
#5: Let them eat cake? Last time I heard, over 45 million US citizens had no medical insurance. It's a disgrace, as compared with. well. the rest of the western civilization, but that's where things currently stand. Why spend money on insuring the masses, when you can spend it on 'Homeland Security' and the TSA to make us "safe" (from ourselves).
It's too late to fix the headline, isn't it?
And pugdaddy, most people in the US are uninsured or underinsured. I pay $406 per month plus co-pays.
That planet you live on must be a very nice place. There are only 80 million Americans without health coverage and...wait...Are you a troll? That's it,,,hahaha, you almost had me, Pug!
Sounds like it could be a staph infection, which is often mistaken for a spider bite. MRSA sounds a lot like that.
It's just catnip, people, but go ahead and cover it up if you've taken your Lisinopril today.
#5
I was paying more than $600/mo for my wife and two kids with a 10k deductible. Now I live in Ireland where you can get sane health care for much cheaper. Although they all complain that it is much better in France. The US is an oasis of crap health care with delusions of grandeur.
venomous, not poisonous
Arrrr... TITS!! That be a pirate booty call if ever I be hearing one!
It's possible that the publicity provided by members of this community who may have media ties or other connections / influence could turn out to be more valuable than direct donations from the BoingBoing community.
Not to co-opt a legitimate advertisement for the services of a friend of the Boing Boing editors (it's my opinon that BB has the right to advertise for whomever they want, and certainly the idea of working to pay for one's bills is hardly contentious), but...
I wonder if in situations like this (there's also the guy with the brain injury) it would be helpful to explain why they aren't covered under a medical insurance policy.
The idea of people without medical insurance can be pretty abstract to some, and frankly I think it's not uncommon for some people to react with a thought along the lines of "well, why didn't they buy insurance?" The obvious answer, "it's too expensive", doesn't really work because the same thing could be said about a variety of other necessities (and yes, insurance is a necessity...no one is immune from medical problems, so everyone is pretty much guaranteed to eventually need medical care). And I doubt that "the person just expects society to take care of them" covers it either, at least in most cases.
It's an invasion of a person's privacy, so obviously this sort of information would only be offered by the victim themselves, under their own terms. And granted, no single individual story will adequately illuminate the broader problem. But it could still be helpful in terms of the public conversation about why socialized medicine is so important (and yes, no matter how you frame it, true "universal healthcare" is "socialized medicine").
Anyway, just a thought. I admit, I do find myself wondering why a person who is habitually involved with large, dangerous demonstrations would not make sure that they had adequate health coverage. A spider bite is more random, but even there I still am so far outside the social demographic where health coverage is not the norm that it's hard to understand.
I personally take as granted, until proved otherwise, that the lack of coverage is for some good reason. But not all would, and in any case assuming there is a good reason, this seems like a great opportunity to elaborate, as a way of helping buttress the case in favor of socialized medicine.
Sorry for the essay, and yes I realize that this isn't what the original post was about, but it still seems like an opportunity to me. :)
Hmm, my comic book addled mind would have expected this person to get super-powers from such a bite;
Artist, here. I went 12 years without insurance, during which time I drained my parent's wallets falling ill and breaking bones, etc. Or I went without altogether.
The bite sounds like a brown recluse bite to me.
There should be an online directory that helps out artists in the way this post suggests.
I'm off to see what this artist's work is like.
Yes, RedMonkey -- exactly what I was thinking. With great artits comes great responsbility.
HarveyBoing @ 17 posted:
"Not to co-opt a legitimate advertisement for the services of a friend of the Boing Boing editors"
I don't know the artist. I've never heard of him or seen his work until this morning when I read the post at Drawn.ca.
No offense, but I do not understand why the "its too expensive" is not an acceptable answer. Health insurance is important but its not a necesity in the same vein as food, water and shelter. After all health insurance isn't going to do much for you if you can't afford to pay the rent. If my employer werent covering part of my health insurance costs, no WAY would I be able to afford it.
Course this may not be the case here. Who knows. Just saying I think "its too expensive!" is more than reason enough.
People with 'jobs' that offer insurance get into the group plan automatically. People with pre-existing conditions may not be able to obtain individual insurance. It's not an over the counter transaction. Many businesses have phased out most full-time employees so that they don't have to offer insurance.
And insurance falls below shelter, food, heating/cooling and transportation on the necessities list. Have I mentioned the self-employment tax? The IRS makes you pay 12.5% of whatever you earned as an independent contractor, even if you only made $500 for the whole year. Most artists barely survive. Let's not blame them for being too poor to buy health coverage.
@ #17
Wow. I wish I lived "so far outside the social demographic where health coverage is not the norm that it's hard to understand." I'm a college educated American, raised solidly middle class and I have often not had insurance. Over the years, I worked a series of jobs that didn't offer any coverage and I wasn't making enough money to pay for both insurance and my NYC rent. I eventually found a job with medical and dental coverage (just in time as I was spitting out bits of wisdom teeth.) Now I'm safe, but I can't really leave my job to pursue anything freelance or arts related (you know painting, being in a band, opening my own restaurant, freelance writer, film work), unless I want to go back to not having health coverage. This is incredibly common in the rest of America that lies beyond whatever ivory tower you live in. Try talking to bartenders, waiters and artists in any major US city.
A few years back Jeffrey Rowland ("Wigu") was bitten by a Brown Recluse spider. Weeks and weeks of pain and a hideous oozing wound.
Sorry to be the cynic, but Mark, if you don't know the artist, how do you know he actually has a spider bite? Maybe this is just a desperate marketing ploy? Maybe he just needs his meth fix? Should we believe every sad story we see on the web and donate money?
... I want to see pictures.
um, if you had read the artist's post you would have come across this:
"Unfortunately all of this came at the very end of a rather long down in my career. Not to mention the fact that all of this happened between changes with my insurance company, meaning the majority of my bills will have to be paid out of pocket."
he has insurance, it just isn't going to cover this situation hence his offer to take freelance work.
his art is quite beautiful. i like his imagery of the natural world.
"Try talking to bartenders, waiters and artists in any major US city."
What's funny (and I am dickishly generalizing here) is that many of said people can afford all kinds of un-needed expenses, iphones, recreational drugs, etc, but don't get insurance. It is often a matter of priorities, not ability to pay.
... and yes, his art is really very cool.
#27: hehe, thanks for that. The rest of us fail at reading, I guess. :)
Bad timing. Crummy. Just another reason to hate spiders.. bleh :D
"Unfortunately all of this came at the very end of a rather long down in my career"
Huh, the guy is 24, but from this you'd think he was much much older... ah... th drm!
Kerfuffle over "artits"? Apparently you guys have never seen Dali's "Persistence of Mammary."
Dali Parton, I mean. D'oh!
@#18 & 20:
You guys are not a bit funny, but at least you've been trolled into revealing what you are (ready for the disenvowelment when you are, Antinous)...You're a couple os ASSHOLES!
"public health insurance doesn't work" is perhaps the most pernicious lie afflicting the USA today. And that is saying a lot. All that suffering, all those lives ruined: for nothing.
#32 sorry, I have to disagree.. I cracked a grin.
They weren't being even remotely insulting, nor inappropriate. Hell, if I'd gotten bit by a spider, I'd be EXPECTING my friends to make similar jokes. :p
I remember all sorts of foolish spending while working crappy jobs to pay rent in bad neighborhoods. I would exhaust my paychecks on stuff like student loan payments, ketchup sandwiches and oil paint (which can run you a buck a milliliter)
The artist of discussion lives where I used to live; Chicago. Great town, high rent.
I remember a conversation with a student loan rep where I complained I could not make payments even with my full time job. Her answer: get a second job.
I have arranged it so that upon my death my ashes will be scattered into that lending agencies a/c return ducts.
TALIA,
Sure you would. Nothing like a life-threatening situation to amuse your friends. Before it's too late...get some new friends.
Buddy, you OK? Ya seem awful raw, is it you or a friend?
Buddy: Keeping a healthy sense of humor is a good thing, even in the worst of times. Laughter the best medicine and all that.
Course, not knowing the artist I can't speak to his temperment as to whether he'd agree.
and no way. I value my friends, who I can always count on to make me laugh, specially when things aren't going so well, which is when I need a laugh most of all.
h.. th drm!!! Buddy, where did "life-threatening" come into play?
"It is estimated that less than three deaths per year occur from spider bites. However, most deaths are children."
http://www.childrenshospital.org/az/Site1628/mainpageS1628P0.html
Brown recluse bites are nasty. My mother had an open wound on her leg for the last five years of her life. A few years back, a lot of people in Palm Springs got bitten around the same time. Some of them still have joint pain years later. And, of course, we used to do liver transplants occasionally due to bites. Tobey Maguire/Peter Parker is the only person I've heard of whose dick got bigger from a spider bite. At least without it falling off later.
And speaking of dicks, if you feel the need to identify your comment as dickish, maybe you shouldn't make it.
I'm thinking of commissioning from the artist a drawing of a troll being bitten by a nasty looking spider.
lies, damned lies and compounding contributing factors to death through complications. Lots of old people die from infections no one cares to remark or note.
"VERY VERY costly particularly if you are trying to self insure AFAIK. "
Single payer high deductible heath insurance (the kind that would be great to have for mr 'spider bite' artist) runs about $70-80 / mo for someone in good shape. Contributing to an HSA would also help in this situation.
I know artists are expected to be irresponsible, self destructive, and melodramatic however, so not sure it's worth adding some actual information. This post is great advert for said artist.
Also, pics or it didn't happen.
I sympathize for the injury, but it is very unlikely that it was a spider bite.
First, MD's are wrong about spider bites 7-8 out of 10 times they diagnose them.
Second, Chicago is a lousy place to find poisonous spiders.
It is doubly regrettable that his medical bills may have been exacerbated by misdiagnosis.
http://hobospider.org/
Well, if you're down to ketchup sandwiches, you can always hold the ketchup and save a little, I suppose.
Someday when we are all sitting and having a beer together I'll recount a particularly hairy, broke ass emergency (fly-by-night) dentist visit. Should have saved up for insurance!
Seriously, if you don't have enough money for groceries, you don't have enough for ins.
Keeping in mind I don't know this guy's particular situation, just my own past.
That spider is a lousy no good bum.
As an aside, the fact that the site's creator has, apparently, been missing since 1999 kind of creeps me out.
The Hobo spider site, by Darwin K. Vest, is a good example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. It's 1999.
Tegenaria agrestis is introduced from Europe and there is no history of medically important bites there. The "agressive house spider" rumor took off because of its latin name, which actually means of the fields, not anything to do with agression, and hasn't stopped since. However, this is little to zero evidence for it being a poisonous spider.
doctor: That mysterious infected, painful mess on your leg is not a spider bite.
patient: What a relief!
Chicago is a lousy place to find poisonous spiders.
Almost all true spiders are venomous to some extent, although envenomation is voluntary. Chicago is a great place to find brown recluse spiders. From Wikipedia:
These spiders frequently build their webs in woodpiles and sheds, closets, garages, cellars and other places that are dry and generally undisturbed. They seem to favor cardboard when dwelling in human residences, possibly because it mimics the rotting tree bark which they naturally inhabit. They also go in shoes, inside dressers, in bed sheets of infrequently used beds, in stacks of clothes, behind baseboards, behind pictures and near furnaces. The common source of human-recluse contact is during the cleaning of these spaces, when their isolated spaces suddenly are disturbed and the spider feels threatened.
As someone above pointed out, MRSA (methloquine resistant staphyloccus aureus) is one of the most common things misdiagnosed as spider bite.
If you want to scare yourselves, look that up.
Another is anthrax. One of the victims of that anthrax attack a few years ago nearly died because the MD diagnosed it as spider bite.
Bad diagnoses can kill.
@ #44 -- I was about to post the same thing.
What is far more likely--and even scarier--is that Woodson developed a MRSA infection. These are becoming much more common in recent years. They used to be occur predominantly in hospitals, but now are more commonly seen in the community. These are often mistakenly ascribed to insect (or arachnid) bites/stings. This is because the infection usually begins in a hair follicle, and the first reaction is a raised itchy bump that looks and feels exactly like an insect bite. Within 24 hours or so, however, the infection turns into a bonafide abscess, and can progress rapidly.
Because people are unaccustomed to infections acting this way, it's natural for them to assume it's a spider bite gone bad.
I am a physician assistant working in a large urban county hospital, who has drained hundreds of abscesses in recent years. Two years ago, I also had my very own MRSA infection, which was severe enough to keep me out of work for over a month. It behaved exactly in the way I describe above. The infection marked the first time in my life that I was truly afraid for my health, as I felt that this disease was completely beyond the ability of my body to control, medicine or no.
Fortunately, we identified the right antibiotic in time, I got better, and I have no lingering effects. I shudder to think what might have happened had I not been able to consult my colleagues and get better care than I was getting from my family practitioner (who was really overmatched by the problem).
Hope you get better soon, Mr. Woodson.
Okay. Flat on my sides for a week, Takuan. Back went out painting that goddamn fence. Talia, I'm laughing as hard as I can, but pain draws out empathy, especially for a guy who describes his as ''more pain than I have ever been in.'' I don't question your friends' worthiness, but ''Get thee to my lady's chamber and make her laugh at that.'' I say the poor cat's situation is nothing to joke about, and that's ''all that's on't.''
The Vicodin is doing double duty today, and neither very well. Sorry for the Shakespeare.
And if you're there, Matt: Get well, bro.
http://discovermagazine.com/2005/sep/bite-of-the-hobo-spider
pot better than Vicodin
@ #52 posted by Larskydoodle
I agree! I am an arachnologist, and spend more time than I should talking people down off their walls because they think it was a spider bite.
Brown recluses are VERY sparse in southern Illinois, and they really don't like cold.
cf. http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol5num2/special/recluse.html
and Rick Vetter's site at
http://spiders.ucr.edu/
You need leprosy medicine. It is the only thing that works!
I was bitten five years ago while roofing a shed. Saw the spider on my shoulder as it bit me. I tried to move it and it bit me again on the bicep. I dumped out a mason jar I was using for nails and trapped the sucker. I was so strangely sick the next day!
My grandfather was quite the arachnid hobbyist and through his years of trading info with others he knew what to do. The ER doc wasn’t so sure but went with it.
I have two golf ball sized scars now…
Single payer high deductible heath insurance (the kind that would be great to have for mr 'spider bite' artist) runs about $70-80 / mo for someone in good shape. Contributing to an HSA would also help in this situation.
That would have to be one insanely-high deductible to get a monthly payment of $70. Which would, of course, make paying for the treatments just like not having insurance in the first place.
Unless you're talking about pseudo-insurance offered by the likes of MEGA. Even then, I can't recall seeing a MEGA quote in double-digits.
As far as contributing to an HSA...well...if you can't afford the insurance premiums, you probably can't afford to contribute to an HSA, either.
right...sorry. mixing up spiders and malaria.
You mean methicillin resistant staph aureus?
infections, MRSA, C. Difficile, necrotizing fasciitis, resistant TB, typhoid and other yummies: pay attention folks, especially so far young and healthy folks. Things are changing. The antibiotics have been ruined by overuse, the climate is shifting, populations are on the move. The bugs are mutating and learning and we've lost herd immunity since the demons have been away long enough so vaccination seems "unnecessary". Pay very close attention indeed.
PugDaddy, here's a hint: when you're describing your own comments as "dickish," perhaps you should think twice before posting them.
Your participation here has been one long cheap shot. Do most people get health insurance? No. It's not a foregone conclusion. Having no health insurance is common in the arts, where people who are struggling to make a career have incomes that are not only low but extremely irregular.
Is it easy to afford single-payer insurance? It is not. Depending on one's circumstances, it can be prohibitively expensive. Dealing with this injury he has is likewise going to be extremely expensive.
How do we know he really has a spider bite? Tell me, what makes you think he doesn't? Do you have one scrap of evidence that he's a low-life who's running a scam? You do not.
Is his condition life-threatening? Not if they just cut off his leg. Otherwise, what he's describing is a very serious medical condition that could turn deadly on short notice.
One more thing: looking at your posting history on Boing Boing, it appears that what most inspires you to participate is the opportunity to play the cynical jerk. It's not the best way to convince others that your presence is valuable.
I suspect what actually got him was a land shark.
that was a Jehova's witness
@43(INBOULDER):
Wow that must either be $1MIL deductibles or utter crap. My most recent offer for insurance was $78/WEEK for single person. I'm in my 20s in absolutely perfect health, don't smoke, don't drink, and just had a physical. The cheapest insurance I've ever seen was at a previous job that was fully unionized and then I still paid $70/Month.
"that was a Jehova's witness"
Political Correctness of Postings as defined by BoingBoing:
Insulting artists: Not ok, you well have hell to pay from high-and-mighty moderator.
Insulting an entire religion: Fire away!
Whether he needs the money for medical care or six packs of PBR, $100-500 for commissioned pieces of this quality seems very reasonable.
You want to make health insurance cheaper and more obtainable for artists and everyone else? It's very simple. Quit bundling routine care plans with risk protection. Let the government fully subsidize true catastrophic coverage for all. Then you decide whether a care plan actually saves money (probably not) and how much supplemental risk coverage you want--which is tons cheaper with the high end payouts effectively removed. The system is a mess. The last thing I want to see is the government taking over a massively inefficient system. Clean it up and make it transparent. If costs don't come back to earth, then talk federalization. Once you go there you can't go back.
if one had actually READ the man's post, you would know A: NOT a brown recluse bite, B: NOT MRSA and C: wasn't the bite that is the problem, was the INFECTION AND SUBSEQUENT ABCESSES from not caring properly for original bite that is causing the POTENTIALLY LIFE-THREATENING situation he b in. hope this clears shit up!
#47 posted by Talia
As do we. Darwin, simply, "disappeared." Nobody knows quite what to think.
#57 posted by Anonymous
So what sort of spider was it? Inquiring Arachnologists need to know what bites people, and a dead "perp" is the gold standard...habeas corpus...
I read it. It says "spider bite" on day one, and hella infection and pain on day two. There's not a lot of in between information about how he cared for the wound over the course of 24 hours.
I'm speculatin' on a hypothesis and stuff. He'd still have my sympathy.
pugdaddy,
You're trying to stir up trouble. It won't work.
Why is everyone confusing "donation" with "commission?" This guy isn't asking for handouts, not begging, not panhandling; he is offering his services in exchange for payment.
Health care in the U.S. is an abomination. Even those of us fortunate enough to be employed by companies that offer us health plans pay enormous rates, get stuck with outrageous bills, have to fight and argue and go through massive amounts of red tape to get billing errors corrected, and are stuck in jobs we hate because we simply cannot live without health coverage. Example: I have been on a medication prescribed by my doctor for the last 11 years. I am unable to function - literally, can't get out of bed, can't stand up without fainting or vomiting - without this medication. Without my company's health insurance plan, I wouldn't be able to afford it. So I can't leave my job - even if I were to find a job that didn't suck my soul out, I wouldn't be able to live in the New York area - my home for all 29 years of my life - AND pay for my medication, uninsured, out-of-pocked, for the 2-3 months that most companies make you wait before the benefits "kick in".
I wish this guy well. I don't have nearly enough disposable income to commission anything from him, but I'll certainly spread his link around.
According to his update he is selling some prints (giclee). These are around 40 bucks apiece. He also updated his page to say he has many commissions lined up. Some people donated but he is arranging to pay them back, as he was asking for work.
I am a single, normal, relatively healthy guy. I have some significant family risk factors, and almost 10 years ago, I had two seizures and some nerve damage as a result of an injury. I have one remaining deficit from the injury that requires a once-yearly office visit, it is non-disabling, non-obvious, not at all dangerous and has no prospect of getting worse.
Insurance costs me $754 a month - with two 'prior condition' exclusions - and trust me, gold plated it ain't. I make enough to cover that - though admittedly not so much that I don't notice.
However, if I let it lapse for any reason my rates will go up by about 25% - assuming someone will underwrite me at all ( and it really is possible that no insurance company will - I was lucky I got coverage last time).
Now, you tell me - how many of you could swallow that easily?... and then do the math. In the last 5 years I've spent nearly $40,000 on health INSURANCE ( I'm single, so that's me ONLY ). During that time I've had no broken bones, had no hospital admissions, no ER visits and exactly three tests that were not on a co-pay basis. In that time I have spent $3800 on all the prescriptions, office visits and sundries related to being sick.
So, I certainly understand why a lot of people choose not to carry it - If I made just a shade less, I would seriously consider it. If I had a ruptured appendix with complications tomorrow, I would still be $15,000 in the hole on my insurance investment. If you add my original injury ( which occurred on my parent's insurance ) to the fictional ruptured appendix, I would STILL be $4,000 in the hole.
Our insurance system is badly, badly broken. I do not necessarily like the idea of socialized medicine but the simple truth is it cannot be any worse than the system we have now.
For every horror story you can find me in Canada and the UK, I'll show you 5 here. For every 'Joe had to wait 6 months for a procedure he could have had in a week' here, I'll show you 3 'Jane died of a condition that a trivial Primary Care Physician visit could have diagnosed and treated six months prior. Instead, jane was admitted to the ER with heart failure and ran up a $12,000 ER bill before she was admitted for hospice care for another 2 months on VERY EXPENSIVE life support until she died.'
Why didnt Jane go to the doctor? Because a PCP visit usually costs an uninsured person between $100 and $200 - and that doesn't include any prescriptions you may need.
Why is a doctor's visit so expensive? Because insurance companies can negotiate reasonable and proper rates for procedures - including a basic office visit... however, if doctors turn around and offer those rates to their un-insured patients, the insurance company pushes back that the 'reasonable and proper' rates are obviously too high ( and to be fair to insurance companies, Doctors hate the negotiated rates, and so welcome the opportunity to charge more when it is possible ).
Why do the insurance companies do this? Because they need to make money. In order to make money, they need to have a perceived benefit over going without. Further, we have a system that ( perversely) rewards denying effective care. Insurance companies have to show quarter after quarter after quarter of growth and profit. While study after study shows that simple, preventative care reduces healthcare costs on a long=term basis, insurance companies have a strong incentive to deny these relatively inexpensive, and highly effective treatments to add to the short term bottom line.
And of course the problem actually goes much further than just the insurance companies. ER and hospital visits are outrageously priced. $40 for an ACE bandage and $5 for OTC strength drugs are very real. Why do hospitals charge this much? Because so many people default on medical bills that they have to charge more. Because they cost so much, more people default, which causes the hospitals to raise the rates on the rest the uninsured who cannot negotiate rational rates. Because hospital networks get kick backs from exclusive supply contracts that contain outrageous markups on basic items - but the kickbacks offset other expenses on the books - and the hospital is not actaully absorbing the cost, they are marking it up and passing it on. Because hospitals, too, now have the conflicting ( some would argue mutually exclusive ) priorities of 'maximizing shareholder value' and providing the best possible healthcare to as many people as possible.
While what I would like to see is real, honest to goodness reform in the medical and insurance industries, our current Congress ( and all the ones for the forseeable future ) are already bought and paid for. I see no hope of genuine reform that actually targets all of the causes of health care costs.
Given that situation, socialized medicine is looking pretty attractive simply because there is enough public outrage to push it through. Even though I know that all it will do is move the money from one bottom feeder's pocket to another, I think we can steal enough money back from them in the process to make a less defective system.
It's like the difference between Ebolla and Cholera. If I have to choose one, I'll take Cholera every time.
..And to answer the question about the SRL guy. He has exceeded his maximum benefit on his personal health insurance ( TBI's are expensive ). As for Liability insurance from SRL, the insurance company has found some pretext to deny SRL's claim on the policy that they carried, so they are doing their best to do right by him and his wife.
#5 posted by pugdaddy:
I think the better question is why does anyone still live in a shitty country like the USA that still doesn't have universal healthcare which would not only help the citizenry be much happier but also dramatically increase our general productivity, innovative spirit and economy. America has turned to shit.
#43 inboulder: $70-80 a month? Not around here, for damn sure.
Kaiser Permanente, usually one of the least expensive options available in this area, gives the following rates on their auto-quote service, for individual coverage for someone in the 19-24 age range:
$50 Copayment Plan - $167.00 a month
$25 Copayment Plan - $215.00 a month
$1,500 Deductible Plan - $109.00 a month
$1,000 Deductible Plan - $194.00 a month
$500 Deductible Plan - $208.00 a month
I would be very interested to know what insurance company you're thinking of that offers insurance for a $70-80 premium, and what kind of restrictions they place on it.
Antinous,
Half my family are Jehovah's Witnesses. While I am not and don't agree with their beliefs, I find Takuan's comment the most offensive here. Would it have been any different if he had implied that he had been bitten by a Muslim? I think most educated people would find that highly offensive. So why is Jehovah's Witness not offensive?
If that's stirring up trouble, then fine. I find the pseudo morality of many posters and the moderators quite questionable.
-J
A "trick" I have used to secure access to group insurance rates is to take a job for a while, enroll in the benefit plan (usually a low option HMO or higher deductible PPO plan) and then resign as after coverage kicks in.
They are required to offer you COBRA for 18 months at the maximum cost of 102% of the company cost. Although expensive, its much better than shopping for insurance on the individual market. Depending on your and your dependents medical condition, your insurance can be extended up to 36 months.
Also NYC has a freelancers union. The rates are OK for the plans offered, but at least your are in a group situation, rather than the individual market, but its better than nothing.
Oh yea, I have 10+ yrs in benefits, and can't wait until the day the good ole USA has universal coverage and i'm out of a job. I'm sick of the stories of uninsured and under insured citizens in the most prosperous nation on the earth.
Pugdaddy, I believe Takuan was following up my reference to the old SNL Landshark sketch.
congrats on failing today's pop culture reference though. :p
sorry for the minor threadjack. Felt this should be pointed out so Pugs can calmdown.
Oh, I left out that jehovah's witnesses were indeed mentioned in at least one of the old Landshark sketches. Looked it up.
#72 posted by Tavie:
I've seen that case and point just weeks ago with a friend who works in the head corporate office of a major satellite provider. I was silly enough to think she would have been covered quite well.
@ #5 posted by pugdaddy
So pugdaddy? What did she do wrong? She worked her way up to the great job in the big corporation. She paid out the ass for insurance. Yet, here she is... stuck with massive medical bills because the holy grail Jesus insurance didn't cover shit.
Pubdaddy, I'm really curious... where do you work and who insures you? I hope your only preexisting condition is that you are a dickhead.
I'm so embarrassed to be an American nowadays.
#69. A brown recluse. Looked just like the one on the Wikipedia page.
I have no idea where it came from since it is supposed to be to cold here (Middleton, ID.) But there was bunch of old out buildings on what was dairy farm at one time. And most of the materials for the shed came from a local supply store. I was actually bitten while moving some bundles of shingles from the cover of one the old (and barely standing!)hay sheds.
I mailed the spider to my grandfather in Kingman, AZ. Damn thing was still alive when it arrived. I'd would send it to you, but he died two years ago and my grandmother threw his entire collection away (I'am talking the low thousands from all over North America)Somebody could have used it?!
#77 posted by pugdaddy
[Cow looks pugdaddy right in the eye, sniffs the air for sec, then kicks a Jehovah's Witness in the head with back hoof.]
Arrr... I be thinkin ya all need to be shuttin the hell up and talkin about what the hell happened to me aRRR tits!
never fails to amaze me how remedial the US is on this issue.
and I have heard all the arguments against collective medicine and they all amount to the same refrain
I am a bad hearted selfish fecker who'd rather see children sold to make burgers than pay a pittnace so everyone is covered.
I actually do use this issue as a sort of a Turing test.
If you violently oppose free health care at point of need you don't qualify as an actual human being.
#82 posted by Anonymous
Thanks! Tho it does just add to the mystery. Vetter's map at
http://spiders.ucr.edu/images/colorloxmap.gif
is the real deal...There are NO confirmed breeding populations of Loxosceles reclusa outside these areas. [There is a self-sustaining population of L. laeta in LA, and the mediterranean L. rufescens shows up sporadically all over the place.]. L. rufescens needs it warm, dark, and safe...never caught in this country in anything approximating the out-of-doors, which out buildings in Idaho nearly are.
Were the shingles, perhaps, recently arrived from, e.g. Oklahoma?
I assume you had your shirt off? Or did she get between you and it?
Recluses do, of course, bite. The challenge is sifting through all the arachnophobia to find real cases.
Sorry to hear about the AZ collection. Another valuable lifetime pursuit down the drain.
The artist says he's been diganosed with celulitis... I can say for sure that big ol' oozing pus wounds can be a form of that. Celulitis is a bacterial infection that can result from a million different things, one being insect bites. A friend of mine has been diagnosed with it and she has dubbed one of the bigger wounds Helena after the volcano since it is raised and erupts.
As for the whole debate of being insured as to not being insured, insurance is expensive. If you've got it, chances are you are paying huge amounts to have it, or work for a company who provides a group plan. For those who don't have it, obviously you don't live in Massachusetts... We're required to have it otherwise we get fined when filing our taxes.
@ #52 Larskydoodle
Sorry to hear of your brush with MRSA and glad you recovered just fine. (and this is a rather odd way to learn of it)
- Blondie
For all the arachnophobes, another of indefatible Vetter's works:
Vetter R, Barger D (2002). "An infestation of 2,055 brown recluse spiders (Araneae: Sicariidae) and no envenomations in a Kansas home: implications for bite diagnoses in nonendemic areas". J Med Entomol 39 (6): 948–51.
That was how many were dumb enough to enter roach motels in 6 months. They live several years, so, of the smarter ones...countless.
Yet, no bites.
If a person can't afford health insurance, they certainly can't afford a car, or a computer, or books, or television, or CDs, or any of the other luxuries that most Americans, including poor Americans, take for granted.
A person can choose to do without insurance, of course...but then they are at the mercy of their own body's ability to maintain itself. That's the choice they've made. If they've chosen to opt out of our medical care system (however screwed up it is), that's their right. But to use the health care system without paying for it, that seems like mooching to me. And in many of the situations I'm aware of, people are going without health insurance, but still spending their money on other relative luxuries.
If we are going to succesfully lobby in favor of socialized medicine, we need to explain why it is that not all people without insurance are like that, as well as why it's so important that everyone pay their fair share for the whole health care system (so that those who can afford insurance don't have the option of not paying for it but still taking advantage of public funding for their health care).
My wife and I are involved with helping the local homeless here, and it's not that I don't understand that there are some people who literally cannot pay for even the basic necessities. But these people are clearly destitute, having an obvious lifestyle to match.
Later in the same post:
But I beg to differ. For the most part, the homeless folks I deal with would be much better off having health insurance but no place to live, rather than a place to live but no insurance.
Regardless, so many of the uninsured I hear of are otherwise living a pretty good life. Perhaps not up to the lofty, American corporate-consumerism standard set by Madison Avenue, but certainly by any reasonable standard of what a human being really needs in order to be healthy and happy, plus luxuries.
To be clear, this isn't my intent. In fact, to the contrary if you'll read my message more carefully, I'm specifically making the assumption that there's some good reason why a person who is otherwise participating in the conventional American lifestyle cannot afford health care coverage. It's not about blame. It's about spotlighting the issues that exist in society that prevent each and every person from having adequate coverage.As one example:
Now, if I were a person in that situation, I would live somewhere less expensive than NYC. What is it that causes a person to be so constrained that they cannot even change their own living situation so that they can afford both housing and insurance?
A number of the homeless locally here in the Seattle area move around quite a bit as they look for work. How is it that someone who's actually able to stay employed is unable to muster the resources to adjust their living situation so that their expenses are better-matched to their income?
This is part of what I'm getting at. I readily admit that I live a somewhat insulated life, and that's in spite of actively seeking out the underprivileged and trying to help them and understand their plight better. It's really hard to truly comprehend unless you've lived through it yourself.
Thus my previous post and questions. The fact is, however "incredibly common" this might be, it's clearly not affecting the majority of Americans, at least not to the extreme degree. If it were, this would be a top priority politically, instead of people electing their government based on hot-button-but-demographically-infrequent issues like abortion, gay rights, etc. I may be a relatively extreme example of "ivory tower living", but it seems obvious to me that I'm not the only person in the country who doesn't fully understand these situations.
I am, as I thought I'd made clear, completely in favor of a socialized health care system. It's my opinion that as a society, we have a moral obligation to help those in need, and to make sure that everyone has access to the bare necessities. Edible, healthy food, safe water, clothing against the elements, some form of housing however minimal, and yes, health care. As it happens, I also believe that as a society we would be much better off economically if we provided these things, as doing so would create a more productive society, and cost us less in other ways in the long run. But even if that weren't true, I believe we are better off morally by taking care of the needy.
But the fact remains, there's a strong sentiment still alive and well in the US that asserts that individuals should be solely responsible for themselves, and that society shouldn't be "coddling" people by providing even these necessities.
It's my opinion that to successfully move forward to a socialized health care system, it's important to address those objections. And an important element in addressing those objections is to talk about case studies such as this one, in a way that explains exactly why it is the (potentially) naïve answers related to simply rearranging one's lifestyle so that the health care costs are properly prioritized and payable, why those answers aren't working.
So, sure...you can assert that "it's too expensive" is a sufficient answer. But that's not the kind of answer that will lead to solutions, especially since it leaves a large voting contingent in this country unsatisfied (because they simply don't believe it...they will always say that if something is too expensive, it's just because you have mismanaged your life).
And again, to be clear: I'm not the one saying that "if something is too expensive, it's just because you have mismanaged your life". I agree that's the case in a great many situations, but I also have seen that it's not universally true. But for better or worse, that's the argument that needs to be refuted, and thus simply stating the conclusion isn't sufficient.
In other words, as I tried to explain in my original post: this seems like a good opportunity to raise some talking points as to why socialized health care is a good and important thing. It's not that I don't believe it is. I do. But nothing helps drive a point home better than some real-world examples and details.
pug, I dub thee Re-Pug.
As to health care in America: if America can afford the Iraq invasion and occupation, she sure as hell can afford health care.
Harveyboing,
I don't understand how criticizing people without insurance is a way to open discussion about a more responsible health care system. It sounds more like you are sitting in judgement.
It's not hard to understand the plight of lower income people. Just look and listen. If you spend time helping those less fortunate, their problems will appear to you large as life.
I biked to work, lived in a shit-hole, and went without a TV or computer. My job offered insurance at rates I couldn't afford.
I spent my extra time and money on studio space and art supplies for the most part. I didn't actually "drain" my parents of money -that was an exaggeration on my part. It's just that if all else failed that's where I turned. To set the record straight, I asked very few times for anything from them-my father died before I got out of high school and my mom had no real income for a few years after that.
I don't regret living that way at all-that's who I was and am. I learned a lot about what it takes to do without. Your point about prioritizing income simply does not compute when held against the actual facts in my life. There was no money for it. It was not available. Are you a social Darwinist?
More briefly: feh.
Harvey,
I believe the big problem I have with your comments is the tone you set, and their being placed within this particular thread.
You are aware that the story was posted because it concerns a guy without insurance who fell on hard luck, and how cool it is that there is potential for a happy solution to the problem:
Artist needs help, sends out feelers for commissions to pay his way, good people step in and notice, bills get paid.
Why step all over that in order to push an agenda?
#90 posted by HarveyBoing :
You act like we live in some kind of democracy or something. How quaint.
Related Article:
Rendering public opinion irrelevant by Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/20/israel/index.html
snippet via article: " ... One of the most striking aspects of our political discourse, particularly during election time, is how efficiently certain views that deviate from the elite consensus are banished from sight -- simply prohibited -- even when those views are held by the vast majority of citizens. ... "
As for "why push an agenda?", well...if the agenda isn't pushed, doesn't this sort of thing just keep happening?
And for the record, I don't know the official definition of "social Darwinist", but I'm certainly not against the idea of survival of the fittest. Especially since it's an unavoidable truth (though many people misunderstand what "fittest" means in that context). Being against that would be like being against gravity.
But that's not mutually exclusive with a sense of compassion and generosity.
Anyway, I see that my point is repeatedly being misconstrued as an attack on poor people and I don't know how to fix that. In spite of saying repeatedly that that's not what I mean, people keep reading my words that way. So, whatever...as you were, plugging the holes in the dike with your fingers rather than actually fixing the whole system. Good luck with that.
#96 posted by HarveyBoing:
Uh, aren't you the same guy that actualy thinks top political priorities follow public need? XD
I wish good luck with your fantasy world. I guess your "fix for the whole system" would be simply imagining the water doesn't existt? XD
Jesus, I can't spell when I'm hungry.. I'm going to get food. I wish Matthew Woodson the best. I think he's a fantastic artist.
I see that my point is repeatedly being misconstrued as an attack on poor people
Generally speaking, when most commenters construe your words in a certain way, it's a good bet that that's their meaning. It appears that you're not very subtly pushing a libertarian let-em-die agenda. Do you have something new to add to the conversation?
I've always noticed the ones yelling the loudest for the weak to die are the ones most terrified of being in that position.
But that's not mutually exclusive with a sense of compassion and generosity.
Compassion and generosity can't be counted on to serve the needs of all, especially those you can't easily communicate with. The 19th Century proved that, and then so did you.
''Being against that would be like being against gravity.''
I've been at war with gravity most of my life.
try this
http://www.rictus.com/viz/photos/seattle-2001/3011-sleeping-bats.jpg
Boingboing zap: I felt sorry for the poor thing because I couldn't find any others. Lots and lots of Silver Argiopes and few Black and Yellows Argiopes.
It was bundles of asphalt shingles so where ever they are made.
Anyhow, my t-shirt sleave had rolled up and when I went to smooth it out, there was the spider. My wife swears that I have picture of it But I used to be big into B&W film and took thousands of pictures so it might be awhile...and I don't remember doing so because I was so strangely sick.
Harvey, let me refine your point in the way that you are presenting it, whether you mean to or not.
"I'm not passing judgement on poor people, nor am I passing judgement on all the people who are not otherwise indigent or destitute but are too irresponsible to have health insurance."
Whether you want to admit it or not, you are passing judgement - in perhaps the worst way possible. We all have to make unpleasant choices. I went without health insurance for almost a year some time after my accident because I needed to get out of a lousy job market. If I hadn't, I would likely still be trapped in a dead end tech support job with no benefits in a job in a market that has gotten worse. Did I act responsibly, or irresponsibly?
You suggest that the 'responsible' choice would be to choose insurance over a car, which tells me one of two things - either you have never lived outside of the 6 or 7 cities in this country that have almost usable public transit systems, or you have never had to go without a car, or without driving. I could now choose to do without a car, but that is only because I can now _afford_ to live in close proximity to work.
As Americans our choices are seldom directly life our death. We have the luxury that one bad choice, or a streak of bad luck probably wont kill us. However, beyond that, the kind of choices we make are still the same as everyone else in the world. Yes, foregoing insurance to buy that BMW is a patently irresponsible choice, however most of the time, the choice is get new tires, or fix a coil pack so we can keep getting to work, paying our bills and trying to get ahead.
You go to great lengths to say you don't judge, but then proceed to draw conclusions that require that judgement. You're entire position requires that people who opt to not carry insurance are acting irresponsibly and making bad choices. No, you don't question their RIGHT to make them, which is commendable, but your attitude requires that it be a bad choice. You need to stop, and re-examine your own attitudes and the assumptions that underlay them. Your default position is that it is irresponsible unless specific circumstances indicate otherwise. That, by definition, is a judgement. You are entitled to your judgement, but you need to call a spade a spade.
Pictures or it never happened.
I'm currently recovering from a White Tail bite, dealing with the pain, swollen leg and the cellulitis.
Pictures at:
http://www.users.on.net/~cash/Personal/Hospital/
But sorry, won't give you any money, paying my own
bills.
ho-lee-shee-it
I'm afraid to look. Just to be safe, I won't follow any links from this thread. Thinking too hard about it makes me queasy.
trust me. Dont look.
Pugdaddy @66, 77:
There's a whole thirty-seven minutes between Takuan's remark and the time yours got posted. If you're going to accuse the moderation staff of dishonesty, you have to allow them enough time to commit the sins to which you're supposedly objecting.You were, by your own description, being "dickish." A fuller description would add that you were also being irresponsible, casually brutal, and deliberately provocative. Save the outrage. You've been treated more politely than you've treated others.Don't even try it. If Christianity or any of the other major religions were illegal, your behavior in this thread wouldn't constitute probable cause to search your car.No. You were quite a bit more offensive, and you were enjoying doing it until you got called on it. Now you're protesting that your tender feelings have been wounded. What consideration did you show for anyone else's feelings during the first part of this thread? If everyone else behaved like you, by now they'd be mocking you without mercy.First, because JWs aren't persecuted the way Muslims are. Second, because it's part of a famous comedy routine.It's awfully late to be casting around for a moral high horse to ride.By the way: what does "questionable" mean if you don't then go on to ask questions about it?
HarveyBoing @90: This artist is not responsible for behavior you've resented in your brother.
There are almost no cases of people rendering themselves homeless in order to be able to afford health insurance payments, so I don't think we can call the question debatable. What is debatable is the position of shelter in your ranking system, since homelessness severely jeopardizes one's ability to hold down a job, maintain orderly finances and clean clothing, and store and prepare food.This is a sufficiently large error that it casts doubt on the rest of your analyses.
This is another disturbingly large error. In most parts of the country, a car is a prerequisite to employment. Depending on one's trade and personal circumstances, a computer may also be a necessity, though this is not so frequent a requirement as a car.When you've used lumber this rotten in the foundations of your arguments, how can we depend on the rest of the structure?
Perhaps they're aware that even if they beggar themselves to pay for what coverage they can afford, one severe injury or illness can still financially wipe them out. If they'll be wiped out either way, they might as well live like human beings now.By the way, I'm squicked by your insistence that the working poor deserve nothing unless they're living like the schoolgirls in Jane Eyre.
Also, it seems to me that the annals of people who've pulled themselves out of poverty are full of mentions of books. You may have books classed as a "luxury," but an impoverished mind does no one any good.
I don't see how it's possible for that to be true. First, if they're that destitute, they're eligible for Medicare and Medicaid. Second, the only circumstances in which it's better to have access to medical care than to have a place to live is if you have a condition that needs constant hospitalization. Calling people in that condition "homeless" is technically accurate, but misleading. Third, what we see, time and time again, is rational human beings going without medical insurance in order to afford a place to live. We must allow that they have some expertise in the matter.You say very strange things about poverty and insurance coverage.
Many of the uninsured I hear of aren't nearly so happy and well-off. Do you have any other grounds for your assertions beyond what you "hear of"?If you take this same smug, condescending tone with the poor and homeless you "work with," it's no wonder that you know so little about their lives. I assure you, the situation Brett Burton describes is neither implausible nor uncommon. You'd be much improved by understanding how it works -- but good luck getting anyone to explain it to you further, once you've made it clear how little respect you assume you owe them.If they do it anyway, it's an act of charity.
There's more I could say in response to your comments, but I find I don't want to. Except, possibly, for this: You're the last person I can think of who should be lecturing others about things they can't understand unless they've lived through them.
...Tcha. One more bit of business with you:
Yes, and I could state that I'm not speaking English, but the rest of my remarks would tend to support the opposite conclusion -- as do yours. I have not failed to read what you've written. While it doesn't completely constrain your meaning to "I'm not very subtly pushing a libertarian let-'em-die agenda," it can in no wise be said to exclude that reading.Eustace, you don't want to look at TastyNapalm's links.
Tasty, that's awful. May you feel better soon, and not suffer too much nerve or tissue damage. And while we're at it, hurrah for modern medicine, because we don't want to think about what would have happened to you without it.
Good lord, that makes me realize how lucky I was with my brush with MRSA.
One thing being overlooked in the discussion about insurance is that having health insurance does not equal having health care. If you can afford insurance, can you afford the insurance that will cover the medical condition or conditions that you end up having?
So there's more to a rational decision about insurance vs. amenities than whether health care is a higher priority than housing.
The demand for health care is virtually infinite, so the price can rise infinitely. Insurance companies have to pay the higher price just like everyone else, so if they hope to keep making money, they have to make sure that your only access to adequate health care is through them, and then do their damnedest to make sure you don't get any health care. A good portion of the money we give them is used to find excuses to make someone else pay for whatever procedure you need; and the most likely someone else is you.
This is why civilized countries have turned to universal health care.
"If a person can't afford health insurance, they certainly can't afford a car, or a computer, or books, or television, or CDs, or any of the other luxuries that most Americans, including poor Americans, take for granted."
It's true, poor Americans SHOULD live like the destitute live in a third-world country. You make no money, you should have nothing. Unfortunately lots of them think that being an American gives them the right to maintain a hold on their sanity, by... reading and listening to music, which costs some money.
If only they'd reign in their excessive spending on things that allow them to avoid suicide, they would be able to afford inadequate healthcare.
#102 posted by HarveyBoing:
Oh gawd, we got a live one... I forgot my preemptive "republic" disclaimer for the typical semantic blowhard who's simply trying to divert from the real argument they can't win.
It's not my loss of hope. It's not my own pitiful fatalism or some "act". It's our current situation, pal; It's reality. You can pretend uncomfortable facts will "puff away" until the cows come home, but denial won't get you or anyone else... anywhere. HarveyBoing, go back and READ (again). LEARN. EVOLVE. or, please... at least read and intelligently acknowledge the quote from the article I pasted earlier.
The FACTS show that our government is NOT following the wishes of the greater public on some of the most vital issues currently affecting our nation (sorry, blowing smoke up our ass does NOT count).
When manufacturing consent doesn't work, they simply IGNORE US and try to reset the stage with frivolous diversions. And, if anyone even starts to politically bend in our direction they are labeled as evil "populists" by the media and immediately marginalized.
PROVE ME WRONG, bring on some facts ...or, just keep sputtering.... it's up to you.
The first stage in healing is admitting you have a problem.
All I can say is that I'm damned glad I live in the UK...
I can't imagine how difficult and demoralising it must be to have to work like a bastard whilst having some horrible abcess in your leg...all so you can pay for your treatment.
But...of course...the US govt. has much more important things to be spending taxpayer money on...
Doesn't help that if you try to help yourself by working hard you still get a bunch of snarks who think that it's a better idea to snipe than extend some human sympathy. Oh well...first rule of the internet I suppose...
@116 My thoughts exactly.
Cragsavage @116:
I find that the tendency to make fun of those who are sick, needy, defrauded, bereaved, or unjustly persecuted varies from site to site. It's one of the internet bad behaviors that increases if you ignore it, as its enthusiasts give each other tacit permission to behave callously.Teresa,
You are like a surgeon with a laser scalpel in this thread.
Hagbard @113, I've heard that bit before about the demand for health care being virtually infinite, and I've come to doubt it. Most medical procedures aren't pleasant or amusing. Dental work, the same. If the supply were infinite, people wouldn't be having a colonoscopy or mammogram every month. They consent to those procedures only because they need them.
Am I missing something? What does the infinite demand consist of?
Thank you, Anthony.
TNH: agreed, the argument for infinite demand has its best examples in the last 6 months of life, not for a person like this. Net societal benefit to provide care to this gentleman >> net societal cost. There is a quite real 'moral hazard' to insurance that folks will use more than will benefit them. However, that would seem to apply equally to universal health care and insurance. Universal health care might have more ability to solve the following problem that is difficult to address with the information asymmetries that exist in market-based care:
The real health care conundrum is in technology outstripping evidence (e.g., we use a pill to try and save a life without knowing the likelihood of working) or common sense (providing about 500 treatments for this issue = providing 1 treatment that has a proven 1% chance of saving lives).
I don't know the answers to any of the questions, but the fact remains:
- this gentleman wants to work to meet his health care needs;
- applying treatment will prevent future disability; and
- the demand is finite in his case.
I'm too impatient to read the whole long list of replies.
To the artist: That crab print is striking. You do great invertebrates! I'm kind of broke, but might scratch up the cash for you to design a tat for me.
I'll be in touch.
Pipenta
He should move to Canada. I was born in the States and moved to Canada. The public health care system is great. You just never have to worry about getting treatment here, or how you're going to afford it. Basically, everybody gets treated the same. It's really an embarrassment to the US that they can't figure out how to take care of sick people.
@Teresa,
It's also a behaviour known commonly as 'trolling' and people get a cheap jolly from others peoples reactions whether they be good or bad. It doesn't matter what the reaction is as long as you give them attention... much like Rush Limbaugh or the giant monsters in that Simpsons episode.
And much like that Simpsons episode, I'd follow Paul Anka's advice and 'Just don't look'... unless of course one of the troll has donuts of course. Mmmm... donuts.
@#104 Takuan,
One hanging bat says to another, ''You know what I REALLY hate about growing old?...Incontinence.''
ewwwww!
#115 posted by Cowicide
''Oh gawd, we got a live one... I forgot my preemptive "republic" disclaimer...''
Could you post it here? If so, thanks. I always have to re-compose mine. Quoting (or stealing) yours would be easier.
One contributor to the problem is the tendency to focus attention and treatment on the extreme cases (which tend to be rarer) and not on the less dramatic but more common ones.
For example, premature babies. Medical research and science have advanced to the point of being able to save the lives of some babies born at 22 weeks gestation (normal is 40 weeks). It takes expensive equipment, expensive medication, and round-the-clock care in high-level neonatal ICUs. The costs are staggering. And the babies who do survive are almost always left with physical or cognitive impairments.
Where we're not focusing our attention, but should be, is on the moderately premature babies — babies born around 35 weeks gestation. There are a lot more of these babies. Interventions and treatments cost less, are more effective, and are less likely to leave the baby with significant ongoing negative effects.
But the glamour (such as it is) and, importantly, best likelihood of getting grant funding, is in caring for the superpreemies, not the moderate preemies.
What does the infinite demand consist of?
Vicodin prescriptions.
which would vanish with legal pot
Get some insurance or sue the spider. Art won't save you now deadbeat!
120 Teresa
I say that demand is virtually infinite because when you need it, you need it, and so the seller can set the price. On top of that, the wealthy can bid up the price, so the price rises.
The very fact that the price keeps rising tells me that the buyer is not the one in the driver's seat of the health care market.
To everyone claiming that they can get individual health insurance policies on the free market for $70-$80/month--what color is the sky on your planet?
I want carrier names, plans, and screenshots/scans of those plans.
When I was a freelancer, and under 30, the cheapest plan I could find through a local writer's "union"/freelancers' society was $350 for CRAP with a big enough deductible where a major illness would still clean me out and trips to the doctor for sinus infections and the like were still expensive (it pretty much covered up to seriously broken bones, but G-d forbid I had cancer or other long-term illness). Over the next 2 years, that crappy plan went up to $450. As someone with a pre-existing condition, I HAVE to be continuously insured for coverage.
There were months when I got my food budget--in NYC--down to $10 a week. It meant lots of visits from Mom driving over tuna fish from Costco and lots of the cheapest brands of frozen veggies nuked for dinner with rice from a 30-lb. bag from Chinatown. And mind you, that was with me in most months working a "fulltime" onsite freelance gig and writing some smaller gigs on the side at night.
ANY kind of national health coverage would be better than the current system.
but if you have health care the terrorists have won
Speaking as a happy recipient of NHS care, I am constantly bemused by anyone who thinks socialised healthcare is a bad thing. It's incomprehensible to me.Someone left a comment on here a while back about just thinking of that mindset as 'Lawful Evil' á la AD&D as a coping strategy, but it really doesn't help.
#128 posted by buddy66:
I last used it in the Freemason thread HERE
As you'll see, I preemptively agree with the morons so it cuts off their the semantic distraction techniques and forces their hand. What they usually do is still ignore the points they can't win on, but silence is better than the old and tired blowhard democracy/republic "debate" distraction technique.
snippet: " ... I have noticed over the last 10 years the Masons have become more and more open, are you finally beginning to realize that large-scale organized secrecy just might not be the healthiest thing for a democracy any more? (and, yes.. to those who shudder at the "democracy" word... I know, I know... we are a republic here in the usa) ... "