Spammers discuss breaking Craigslist verification system
There's something grimly fascinating about this Blackhatworld forum in which spammers are discussing with comradely zest the best means of overcoming the new Craigslist phone-verification technique that prevents duplicate listings being posted in CL forums. There's the whole spectrum of netly emotion here: technical generosity; greed; self-pity; quick anger. They could be talking about debugging a video-driver, except that they're talking about turning a beautiful community service into a pile of shit.
They've just started doing this in the computer services section too. I'm seriously freaking out now because I make the majority of my income off that section. I'm a freelance designer.LinkI don't know how I'm going to pay my bills if I can't find a way around this. Anyone have a suggestion? Please?
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Makes me want to join & post "Ah ha! I caught you!" type messages in their little forum.
*grumblelousyspammersgrumble*
I'd like to find out how many of those comments are SPAM.
I've been reading a lot of Kurzweil recently. He makes me pessimistic and optimistic.
Pessimistic, because the hope of telling a computer from a human is going to be basically impossible within years. Optimistic, because at the Singularity, as soon as something becomes useful enough to be widely adopted, and thus targeted by spammers, it will already be hopelessly outdated.
It's always easier to destroy than to create.
There freaking out... completely... Finally a drop of payback in an ocean of spam good job CL!
I, too, am a freelance designer. And I'd rather be unable to pay my bills than resort to spamming. Shame.
So, um, why not use the methods described in the Spammer forums to fill the board with spam messages, thereby disrupting that community?
In my case the answers is: too lazy to learn how.
But surely that doesn't apply to everyone here.
I got a kick out of this one:
I cannot imagine how many people are going to really be hurting because of this change.
Yeah, that really breaks my heart.
Seriously, they could stake spammers out on anthills and it wouldn't bother me in the least.
Spammers make me mad. I was so happy when Craig's list started with the nominal fee for job postings in my market. I was really annoyed when I after careful consideration of postings and content, I actually sent my entire resume to a spammer.
Sure, we all gotta pay the bills, but do they have to make it so hard for the rest of us to find jobs that pay our bills?
The thread gets pretty meta once random people start hawking their "low-cost solutions" to this issue and posting dodgy links (I know there's a colloquialism for this practice but it eludes me at the moment).
In all seriousness, as a vaguely moral being with at least an ounce of scruples and dignity I've no idea if this is common practice in spamming circles, but it looks frakkin' hilarious from the outside.
It seems like a lot of the posts in that form ARE spam. Of course there's no honor among thieves.
I like how to get better at spamming you have to dig through piles and piles of spam to find your information. Unfortunately, that's how the entire internet will end up if these "people" get their way.
I agree with the dude who suggests we stake them all to anthills. Don't forget to put honey on their junk first.
"I'm seriously freaking out now because I make the majority of my income off that section.
Yeah. That's equivalent to saying "I'm a thief and now they installed better locks on the doors to the money palace where I steal your money and now I can't steal too good no more." Boo hoo.
You, sir, are not a "freelance designer". You are a "freelance scum bucket". Good day.
I said good day to you, sir!
@contrasoma: The best I can dig up from memory is "poetic justice". Is that it?
This is just a good example of why internet II is evolving: the need for more security (and bandwidth). Spammers are not unlike aggressive bacteria that find their way into the body because of inherent vulnerability in the body’s defenses. The “it should all be free” internet has led to serious infections. I’m not sure you can have a free and open internet and not have it vulnerable to all sorts of attacks, which includes spam. But, Security of the sort that is required to help put a stop to spammers and the like would most likely cross the lines of what someone like Cory might consider the philosophical core-value boundaries of the internet. The kind of security that is required would be similar to that which he employs on his own site. And that kind of security eats up resources and is for the most part dependant on humans. Which humans will we trust to run net security the way it really needs to be done? The FBI? Who’s going to track down internet criminals and prosecute them unless the feds or another agency (such as the IISA: International Internet Security Agency), has certain abilities that may seem too 1984-ish?
#12 - I third the anthill, Plus, no sunblock.
"It's always easier to destroy than to create."
Yeah, sort of the way Craigslist destroyed local newspaper classifieds, thus largely destroying local newspapers entirely, and once that was done turned itself into a useless cesspit.
Seriously, why does anyone use Craiglist for anything serious? It's choked with spam and scams, and yet whenever I actually try to click on a posting - usually for freelance gigs - it's been flagged for removal by the people who got to it first. I don't even try anymore. But that doesn't mean the newspapers are coming back.
If Craigslist is the mess that everyone says it is, then where should an aspiring freelancer post their advertisements?
I'm not defending the spammers, but if I could find a way without hacking the system that I could post my legitimate ad once a day just to keep it visible in the chaff I'd be willing to make use of it. I'm not an evil person, and I resent the implication.
Pinwiz: To everybody else, you are part of the chaff.
Every spammer I've ever talked to thinks that their message is special and different and ok to post, because it's what they believe they need to do. Whether they are clueless or evil is a matter for theologians, but either way they destroy community forums.
If you want to make it as a freelancer, develop relationships with clients and people who know clients. Present at events. Write useful articles. Do favors for people on the way up. Develop a great portfolio and great references. Provide value to your community.
Just posting your ad on Craigslist over and over is a sign you should go back to a day job.
Looks like BlackHatWorld has taken down the discussion. Did anybody save a copy?
Nores #17, Craig's List destroyed newspaper classifieds by out-competing them -- doing a better job of providing the same service. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's no comparison with spammers coming in and clogging up a useful service with crap.
I found a great apartment and a good job through Craig's List a few years back. I'm sorry to hear spammers have made that more difficult.
I found my current apartment through Craigslist. And I do mean this past spring, not years ago.
The site still works, and I commend them for trying to curb spam.
Someone really should try to get enough info on each of the spammers in that forum so we can flood them with our own spam. Give them a taste of their own medicine.
Let's see, in the last 2 years I've bought and sold a few computers, found lasting romance, gotten rid of piles of junk, found and shared garden plants, people to rideshare on car trips, hooked up with 3 bands. And it cost me what? $0.
I can only thank the craigslist folk for doing everything they can to make a workable community system that only makes income from job postings.
Personally, I'd like to stick a gordian worm into the spammers and watch them jump in a pool in a few months.
I used Craigs List to find a great web designer.
I got about 120 resume/portfolios (about 35 of them from India) but about 15 of them were from New England and a number of them were outstanding.
So for the above poster #17 who asked "why would anyone use Craigs List for anything serious" I would simply say: Get a clue.
What a trippy place. It's weird to see forum avatars, like the little Bandito Benjamin Franklin, that openly express a sort of outlaw status.
Besides the fact that there is no password required to view the forums, does it seem strange that a place called "Black Hat World" would have Digg, etc. buttons at the end of each post? Wouldn't that conceivably lead to attention that they don't want? Or do I fail at Black-hattery?
There's been a revolt of sorts in the South Florida craigslist in the Arts/Media section. Designers are getting fed up with people wage phishing and have started flagging anyone who fails to leave any company or viable contact info. I agree with them, since I work down here and everyone wants you to be an IT and a Graphic Designer and a web designer for $14 an hour. It's ridiculous. I'd love to see more oversite over the job postings on CL.
Are those BHW peeps really making any money doing, uhm whatever it is they are doing, and if so.....how!??
If you want to make it as a freelancer, develop relationships with clients and people who know clients. Present at events. Write useful articles. Do favors for people on the way up. Develop a great portfolio and great references. Provide value to your community.
It's the same reason that we ask BB commenters to put their blog link on their profile page, rather than in their comments. If you're interesting, people will look you up. If you're not, please stop asking for attention.
Nores,
Craigslist destroyed local newspapers? You jest. They did that to themselves very handily.
Here's some homework reading for you:
The New Media Monopoly by Ben H. Bagdikian
When you get done with it, we will expect a short pithy essay on why Craigslist did not kill local newspapers.
"It's always easier to destroy than to create."
...If it were, then there'd be a *LOT* of dead spammers.
#29
Oh I couldn't possibly write a short, pithy essay on a topic I've carefully researched for less than, oh, $3.16 plus one and a half cents per thousand pageviews. :-)
Apparently you have no Idea what spamming means. And although I would like to make it clear that I do not and will not support spamming( it pisses me off too) ,it hurts me to see how you are so stereotyped....
that forum is way way more than just Cragislist 'spamming'.. it teaches you ways to earn money online.. money in amounts you could probably never do with a real job...
The site is a little controversial but if you're into making money online, it's one of the best places around (if not the best). Also to the original poster who says he's a designer, why don't you post your portfolio at BHW? You might get more customers and exposure. The internet is such a big place that to put all your eggs in one basket (craigslist), is just asking for trouble. Join BHW and learn how to make multiple streams of income.
Controversy Creates Cash. If you can't/don't think outside the box you'll always be stuck inside the box.
I forgot to mention. The forum is public because there is nothing illegal going on. Some of the techniques are outside of the norm, but they aren't breaking any laws. It's a community about sharing.
There are perfectly legitimate places to post portfolio's as a freelancer.
Some sites for example are RentaCoder, GetAFreeLancer, ScriptLance, Guru.com, and Elance.
Deals are made on these sites every day without spamming classifieds. So if anybody wants to copy and paste this info to the poor sap grumbling about craigslist, feel free.
You know what, freelancers who can no longer post on craig's list can post on the black hat forum. They have sections for that. :-)
The black hat forum is about sharing ideas that keep the "creative juices" flowing.
we need to see some twenty year with no parole spammer sentencing. Agitate for it.
Spammers are becoming a problem and some of them have 89 ads up at one time! I wrote a little web app that makes it easier to deal with these mega-spammers.
http://www.jazzstudies.us:81/antispam.aspx
It uses standard CL searches to create a list of flag links so that you can flag each ad it also has a flag all feature that will hit the list automatically but that only works in FireFox.
An example of a spammer in the newyork area:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/cps?query=a29webdesign
SoftmasterG, so you the asshole that flags people ads. You mess up a lot of people money that way. Get a real hobby and stop flagging people ads!
Hmm...so how does the blackhat forum keep people from spamming???? Mods?
Is 'creative juices' a euphemism for slime?
Moderator note - I approved anonymous at #40 for entertainment value only.