US seizes Danish dress-shop's payment to Pakistan in the name of "terrorism"
Carsten sez, "The owner of a small dress shop in Maribo, Denmark, orders six dresses in Pakistan for a value of $205 and pays by bank transfer - only to find that the transfer is intercepted by the US authorities and the money seized because the seller (fashio.biz) might conceivably support 'terrorism'."
"Christa Møllgaard-Hansen, owner of Christabella's in the town of Maribo on Lolland, routinely buys women's clothing and shoes from around the world to resell in Denmark. But a recent purchase of six dresses from Pakistan for $205 was considered by the American authorities to be money going to support terrorists.Link (Thanks, Carsten!)The US froze the funds four months ago and contacted Møllgaard-Hansen's bank, saying they wanted more information on the payment's recipient. Møllgaard-Hansen had put all the necessary information into the original netbank payment, but complied with her bank's request for the additional information."
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To be fair, this happens all the time - i work in a small finance company that makes a lot of cross border payments and we get 3-4 payments stopped a day, either to do with hits on the US Treasury's SDN List or the UK Treasury's Financial Sanctions.
So long as you're fairly prompt supplying the information they tend to release them quickly enough.
If you'd like to see if you (or someone sharing a close enough name) is on the list you can do so at:
http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/documents/financial_services/sanctions/fin_sanctions_index.cfm
or
http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/sdn/
Still: What on Earth does the US government have to do with a money transfer between Pakistan and Denmark?
And how satisfactory is a situation where interception and seizure of money transfers between two parties "happen all the time"?
Of course, my own answers to these question tend to be "nothing at all" and "not very", respectively.
"The US authorities have conducted surveillance on transactions made through the Swift bank transfer system since the 11 September attacks in 2001."
So those of us who use IBAN, do we still get monitored?
This is making me all kinds of nervous.
@AGGER: US$ payments made anywhere, to anywhere will usually (99% of the time) pass through a US Correspondent bank - who are oblidged to check against the OFAC list. Its not "seizure" per se in that they are holding the funds pending more information. Not sure what happens in the case of a genuine match - presumably you get reported to the relevant authourities?
@SPAZZM: Yeah, IBAN is a designator rather than a settlement system - most payments through SWIFT will use BIC/IBAN so if you make a payment in the UK or using US$ you will be monitored for compliance. Unsure about the specifics for other nations, but the EU has something similar in place.
US$ payments made anywhere, to anywhere will usually (99% of the time) pass through a US Correspondent bank
Which means international transactions will now take place in Euros. Does the government -want- to make the dollar no longer a reserve currency?
Which means international transactions will now take place in Euros. Does the government -want- to make the dollar no longer a reserve currency?
The whole foriegn exchange system is based on correspondent banks and nostro/vostro accounts so its an issue whatever currency you use, its just that the US is so much more strict.
So long as you're fairly prompt supplying the information they tend to release them quickly enough.
Well, in this case it's been four months now. And, as it's asked in the article: What if the order had been for $20,500 and not $205? The victim's shop might have been closed, then. And still, the US government's ability and will to interfere arbitrarily like that simply defies every notion I ever had of "free trade" - and all this just to fight off "terrorism", harassing peaceful business people who in 99,9999% of the cases will have nothing whatsoever to do with "terrorism"?
I mean, it just seems like, completely unacceptable - and the fact that it happens all the time serves to make things worse, not better, IMO. To be fair, government surveillance of nickel-and-dime money transfers like $205 between small businesses is simply over the top.
I probably shouldn't be posting this in a public forum... I have two sweatshirts in my possession, made in Pakistan. TWO! What if it was a terrorist shop? Yes it was a local shop and I paid in cash, but what if it was under surveillance and they followed me? What if they ever find out? My money could be supporting terrorists right now! I feel so dirty.
Good thing the US is so diligent about making sure even a few hundred dollars doesn't go to support terrorism
As an American, since we can stop a Danish transaction and presumably transactions in other countries, why don't we just seize all payments everywhere now, and end our economic woes!
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
@aggerWell, in this case it's been four months now. And, as it's asked in the article: What if the order had been for $20,500 and not $205?
The correspondent bank would (should) have asked the remitter for more information on the beneficiary - it is more than likely that the remitting bank didn't pass that request on, and so it was only when the customer noticed that the bank investigated and sorted out.
Also, don't get me wrong, I in no way agree with the system, you should see how easy it is to get false-positives (especially when dealing with islamic/arabic sounding names - some of the people on the SDN list have 30-40 aliases) I'm just trying to provide a little explanation.
Asset seizures in the U.S.
Fund seizures around the world.
Sounds a bit like piracy.
==
@#12 Agree.
Don't underestimate the number of false positives and just plain errors. Clerical errors, malicious errors, stupid errors, whatever.
the people currently shooting at foreign soliders (UK, American, Canadian soldiers) in Afghanistan are mostly foreigners themselves. From Pakistan, where they were "educated" in madrassa schools funded by US$ handed over by the US government to the Taleban a generation ago (to kill Russians).
Why are not the politicians and CIA staff implicit currently facing charges for this?
Takuan, because the US had nothing to do with it. Only muslims can be terrorists, didn't you know?
I, for one (and only one!?) am amazed and pleased that the US government is so incredibly vigilant, and (admitting the inconvenience in some exceptional circumstances such as this) am proud that they're keeping us safe.
I know you might think I'm being ironic, but I'm not.
Surveilance of terrorists (or even suspected terrorists) is going to involve some surveilance and even inconveniencing of those that bump up against them, from time to time. Just keep doing the right thing, and you'll be OK.
I do love, however, how the headline and article seem to be making the assumption that nothing nefarious DID happen by putting the word "terrorism" in quotes. How do you know?
d'oh!
Better safe than sorry!
I'll bet a psychic called in the tip.
But... But... I though Pakistan was an ally in The War On Terror(tm)..?
maybe not this week, The Warofterror Industry (Mid-East Concession) just shot up Pakistan and killed some Pakistani soldiers on the border (inside Pakistan).
I wish the American government would look more closely at the transactions of Big Oil, because I feel terrorized every time I go to the gas pump. Why isn't anyone looking more closely at where those dollars are going? Oh that's right, because they're campaign donors. What was I thinking?
Just another victim of the War on Abtract Concepts.
In other news, there's a place called Lolland! Sweet!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolland
Guilty until proven innocent.
In other news, there's a place called Lolland! Sweet!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolland
Yes, that's where Christa's shop is :-)
... in the city of Maribo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maribo
rather provincial, 6000 inhabitants, hardly a terrorist stronghold :-)
Someone please tell, JayDub (#15) is kidding or trolling or whatever.
Otherwise I hope he bumps into someone who inconveniences him with a rubber glove and a cavity search.
(Don't worry - just relax while being searched and keep doing the right thing, and you'll be OK.)
Well said, Rob,denmark.
On the general subject of the thread: The arrogance and incompetence of US authorities never fails to astound. If you want an empire, just come out with it! I know you're hankering after your turn - after all, everyone else, Spain, Portugal, Britain, Russia, we've all had a go. So just admit it, you want one too! Invade a few countries, call them your colonies for a generation or two, and then get out again when the locals get sick of you. You know it makes sense. It would make more sense than the current global fiasco you're nurturing.
Jaydub is a common troll. Kudos to everyone for not taking the bait.
On another note, how do we know that the dresses aren't secret weapons? Has nobody in government read Medea?
@#27 - You're right. If there can be fashion victims there must, be extension, be Fashion Terrorists!
After all, we've all heard the term "Fashionista"!
There weapons are wicked A-line skirts, the withering smirk and the cutting remark.
Fashion Terrorist
surely,just "He Who Asks Inconvenient Questions"?
One can't help but wonder where this misplaced zeal for monitoring transactions was when the US was the major source of funds for the IRA.
Shouldn't the assets of the telcos be seized? Are they not supporting terrorism by carrying network traffic to and from sites like fashio.biz?
Vade101: The problem (from the point of view of persons and businesses outside the US wishing to make payments to another country outside the US) is the SWIFT system, it appears.
One of the Danish newspapers today carry a story that some Danish businesses are taking steps to avoid SWIFT to avoid the risk of having their money frozen with the risk og possible damage to themselves and third parties.
Like someone said, it would appear the US govt (and SWIFT) are working hard to make themselves irrelevant.
The EU just walked away from the Cuba embargo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala
The latest official gubmint website to check for terrorists, drug dealers, sordid persons, scofflaws, etc is EPLS.gov. That is the "Excluded Parties List System." It combines all of the gubmint lists into one convenient searchable, database. Go ahead - enter your name - you know you want to...