Mennonites in downtown LA
Feral House publisher Adam Parfrey took these cell phone photos of Mennonite missionaries during the BEA book expo at the LA Convention Center.
He says: "I thought it was a strange fish-out-of-water thing to see these pale rural Wisconsinites on Broadway downtown. They handed me a CD of dull anti-evolution speeches, and had them in English and Spanish."
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I think it would have been way cooler if they handed out vinyl LPs full of dull anti-evolution speeches.
"We don't hold with optical storage. Our bishop told us that it's far too shiny."
Isn't it fairly common for them to make a trek to the land of the heathens and decide whether or not they'd like to stay? Or am I thinking of a bad episode of Law & Order:SVU?
That's weird. The Amish and Mennonites in Pennsylvania tend to keep to themselves though when I used to work at my university's library the teenage Mennonite guys would come in to watch videos on Youtube and annoy everybody trying to study.
We have a large Mennonite population here in Manitoba. Most of them (well a lot of them anyway) live in the city, don't dress differently etc. We also have a lot who are more conservative though.
a) there are a lot of mexican mennonites... hence the spanish.
b) mennonites have different rules for business than for life. (i.e, they can take buses, use cell phones, have computers and electricity in a dedicated business area, usually a barn-type structure)
c) mennonites in question here are called "old order" and they in no way resemble "new order" mennonites. (there was a schism in the 19th century)
that's it for mennonites 101.
source: growing up in waterloo, ontario (outside of st. jacob's ontario, a large enclave of old order mennonites)
We have many Amish and a handful of Mennonites where I live in NE Ohio. When I saw the photo of the cleancut guy leading the women in singing I surprised that he didn't look even a little like he is "supposed" to. In fact, the way he is dressed and the way they are so publicly proclaiming makes me suspect they are not very mennonite at all... probably more run of the mill conservative christian.
We have a large Mennonite community in Ontario too. As BCJ pointed out, they practise different levels of "worldliness", with the most conservative pretty much conforming to the Amish stereotype and the least conservative being sort of a mild, respectable librarian type.
However, I have never seen them attempting to convert urbanites (or anyone else for that matter).
Ha! I see that Satan has tempted them into modern footwear at least. I wonder if they vaccinate their children.
I had a similar experience, similar in a completely opposite kind of way. I live in central PA among many different Anabaptist groups. About a year and a half ago I had to go to DC for a conference and there I saw this woman, http://www.flickr.com/photos/toekneesan/307237705/. She did not try to change my beliefs but she did make an impression.
Enochrewt you are thinking of Rumspringa
I can understand, though not agree with, a desire to adhere to an older way of life.
I can understand, though not agree with, a desire to shield younger people from the excesses of our junky MTV culture.
I can understand, though not agree with, a desire to live a spiritual life based on faith and prayer.
I can understand, though not agree with, a viewpoint that says that abortion is a crime and a sin.
But at some point it seems like one of the key talking points, if not THE key talking point, of religious conservatives of all stripes is evolution.
Why they want to bash their heads against that particular brick wall I simply cannot fathom.
Here in Iowa, we take pictures of L.A. freaks/hippies when they come to town....my heart swells to know that prejudice isn't limited to the Midwest. :(
Mennonites can be as conservative or liberal as their particular group allows. Here's a wiki on their doctrine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mennonites#Worship.2C_doctrine.2C_and_tradition
I don't think seeing a Mennonite out and about even in LA is really that unusual. On Broadway in Downtown LA in traditional dress IS an odd one however, but I think you have to know Los Angeles well enough to appreciate it.
I allus wanted ta be Web Amish
IN any religious group you grow when you either have a lot of babies you indoctrinate from birth, or you do some conversion (the most successful types try and do both) perhaps some Mennonite orders are into getting people to convert, or at least warn us all of impending doom for one thing or another, maybe it was because California lets people marry be the opposite gender or not? Maybe its because someone ate some bad rye and 'had a vision'. Who knows, I personally welcome seeing more diversity, conservative, liberal, and just plain freaky odd.
Yeah, I probably share a last name with at least one person in that pic. My great-granddad was born on an Amish farm in 1885 (and lived to see me go to college).
It's funny that they're considered backward, old fashioned and anachronistic. When they were violently driven out of Europe in the 18th century it was for being heretical religious radicals who dared to question some rather absurd practices of conventional Christianity. From firebrand reformer to reactionary in 260 years.
I've been thinking about the Amish practice of letting their teenagers go live a period in the 'outside world' before they decide to live in the enclave or not.
On face value, it seems like a fair (if somewhat radical) approach to religious freedom.
But I think that it really is a shrewd survival tactic.
Most Amish don't allow abortion or contraception, and they have low levels of suicide. This would quickly lead to overpopulation on a level that 18-century style farming cannot support. So foisting some of their excess population on the surrounding communities (which have more advanced production methods) functions as a safety release valve.
As an added bonus, this means the surrounding communities are seeded with individuals likely to be more friendly towards the Amish enclave.
Finally, it secures the survival of the parents' genetic line if the enclave should fall on hard times.
They've been coming down to Skid Row and signing for as long as I've been living in Downtown. I never seem to have my nice camera when I see them though.
I think I remember something about (Dutch? German?) Amish having inbred male bloodlines exhibiting genetic predisposition to depression...
ah, there it is
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,963725,00.html
I live in an area with many Mennonites, and some Amish. I've never known any of them to proselytize AT ALL. This is the first instance of Mennonite missionaries I've ever heard of. I have to admit, I'm skeptical. I wonder if it isn't some lunatic fringe group of Mennonites, or some other group calling themselves Mennonites. The whole idea of devoting time and effort to trying to convert outsiders seems as odds with what I understand the core values of Amish and Mennonite communities to be, regardless of the gradations of worldliness they adhere to.
as i live in los angeles, it looks like my chances for some hot mennonite love just got a lot better!
#23 - Shmengie
Are you prepared to care for 14 children?
One of my close friends is a (liberal, consciously postmodern, highly tech-friendly) Mennonite. The general organizing principle of their denomination that I got from him is full democracy: no ordained clergy or leaders of worship.
My father (who lives in western Illinois) would occasionally trade horses with Amish folks. He's met a few who speak old dialects of German that they preserved from their homeland.
I *am* Mennonite. These are Old Order, or maybe Holdemann, and as several people have pointed out, we're all over the spectrum. (I'm posting from my laptop, btw, and if you saw me on the street, I wouldn't stand out.)
Kinda surprising that they're passing out tracts about creationism, as opposed to pacifism. That's what we're famous for. Even more funny that they're sticking to some doctrinal message as opposed to doing social work: those Mennonites who do missions are usually heavily into relief aid, etc.
The sad thing is that theses Mennonites were only passing out boring sermons... often you run into them in Chicago and they pass out CDs with beautiful hymns. Agree or disagree with their lifestyle or religion but they are beautiful hymnists.
I'm sick of this. California is Atheist country we dont go around pushing Pastafarianism on the rest of the world do we...
I'm pretty sure I saw this same bunch at Fanueil Hall in Boston, MA last summer... but then they all look pretty similar to me. But like Enoch said, they sound pretty...
I remember running into a group of traditionalists of some flavor (I didn't ask) at an amusement park. Once I got over the double-take, I realized that this was a good illustration of the idea of living "in the world but not of the world". Nothing wrong with interacting with the outside world, especially as a special treat for the kids, but "we think our way of living is better."
I can respect determination to hold to one's beliefs and practices even when they aren't always the most convenient way to live... as long as folks extend me the same respect.
what DOES a Pastafarian Jihad look like anyway? I'm thinking hordes of pirates with buckets of sauce and meatballs, pelting the infidels.
there are many types of Mennonites - it is not fair to generalize.
there are also many types of fairy tales.
my people consider it the highest honor to be sacrificed to the crocodile god. may we honor you?
@Scionofgrace-
Me, too! Only on top of reading BoingBoing, I'm a Mennonite three years into earning a doctorate in evolutionary biology.
Mennonite theology (as I've been raised to it, anyway) is actually pretty well-suited to accommodating scientific fact - we don't see the Bible as a "flat book," with every verse having equal importance. I attribute Mennonite/Amish creationism to the influence of fundamentalists in other denominations.
@Enoch Root -
Another unfortunate effect of said influence is the phasing out of good old four-part harmony hymns in favor of "contemporary" songs with much thinner theological and musical content. By Mennonite standards, I'm a flaming liberal in every respect but musically.
I really glad I didn't run into them. There's something about those serious-countenanced women with their no-nonsense dresses that makes me a little weak in the knees. Gives me the urge to wear itchy wool trousers, lumberjack shirts, and practice carpentry. Then it passes. Whew.
Yoder: with a name like Yoder, can there be any doubt? ;)
Me, I'm marrying a Mennonite in a month and a half, and she's of the PhD-havin', Obama-votin', tank-top-wearin' variety. To judge by past experience, of the two other Mennonites who've posted here, one of you is her second cousin and the other dated her Aunt Juanita.
I believe I saw some Mennonites (Amish? Hutterites? Anabaptists?) at the Kennedy Space Centre. They were dressed in traditional, 'plain' clothing, which made the mobile phones strapped to their waists' seem quite odd.
Mennonites in the space shuttle? It's more likely than you think.
you've got Amish folk, there - sometimes known as "old-order" Mennonites.
most Mennonites are fully integrated and don't shun technology ... I've got a Mennonite pal who works for RIM!
there are lots of Amish folk out where I live - my favourite sight is the community phone booth that sits in the middle of a farm field.
Remember that the last time Mennonites were in the news, it was in boston and they had to call in the bomb squad and cartoon network had to pay a fine...wait, I think I got that right.
(snort)
...now I have to clean my keyboard...
As someone who used go to a Mennonite church and studied Anabaptist history, I agree with everyone saying that this isn't typical Mennonite behavior. Most of the time, they are content to live their lives among the world without pushing their beliefs on others. They would rather proselytize by being an example in their community.
The only reason I didn’t join the church was their belief on divorce. My dad had been married one time before to an alcoholic, divorced her, and remarried. Even though he had been married to the new woman for 12 years and had 3 kids with her, they told him that he had to get a divorce from her and either live alone or with his first wife, because he was still married to her in the eyes of God. Needless to say, we (and they) were crushed and we didn't join, but I still have the utmost respect for them.
BTW, there is an awesome Mennonite restaurant in Montezuma, Georgia. If you ever find yourself in that rural part of Georgia, I highly recommend it.
they see society falling apart, they see an opportunity to get new recruits!
#22 that's a good point. I lived in an area with a fair number of Amish too, and I also can't ever recall any proselytizing.
#33 that's what I figured--that the creationism thing is an outside influence. I admit I know very little about Amish/Mennonite theology, other than pacifism goes deep.
The whole creationism thing strikes me as extratheological.
They were in Downtown Boston on the Boston Common last Friday. They were in traditional dress. They lined a walkway with religious posters annd were handing out tracts. They had a choir near the big fountain on Tremont Street, and were handing out CDs. Believe it or not they hardly raised a ripple with their presence. Certainly not enough to whip out the camera phone for.
On a side note, Adam Parfrey is perhaps one of the single most mean spirited writers working today. I say this and yes, I have read much of his work. while I have enjoyed many of his essays, quite few of them made me feel like I need a shower afterwards. I think I still have PTSD from the first time I listened to "hateville" in its entirety.
My point here is that it may seem funny that a bunch of seemingly repressed Luddites would dare to stand on a corner in LA, but I think BoingBiong should think twice before lending bigots a platform on which to mock them.
I have never seen Mennonites behave like this. Most of the Mennonites I have encountered shy away from the public forum. They also do not want their picture taken because they believe that with every picture that is taken of them it takes a little bit of their soul as well.
Foofoodoodoo-Granted Parfrey is a hate filled individual(it kinda defines and drives his aesthetic),I think that this forum has been more than respectful.I meant its not like their $1en0l0gi$t$ or any thing!
@JERE7MY -
Yeah, I'm branded for life. I don't think I've dated Juanita, but I bet I could come up with some sort of family/church/school connection. If your fiance went to EMU, I was that jerk in the class of 2004 - and I've got Goshen covered with family connections.
Parfrey here...
I'm glad that a couple detractors have read my work and "enjoyed" it, and listened to an album I contributed to, but I'm curious to know what exactly what makes me a "bigot"--being the publisher of "50 Reasons Not to Re-elect Bush," "Why Bother?" by Sam Smith, "War Is a Racket" by Smedley Butler, and currently a big Barack Obama supporter? Please state your evidence, and not an opinion expressed by some third party
... thanks, Adam...
yeah, I'd like to hear some evidence and reasoning for such serious allegations too. Foofoo, Hassan? I ain't sayin yer right, I ain't sayin' yer wrong. Yet.
But you have both been challenged to honourable combat.
Adam, as I stated, I have enjoyed some of your writings, while I have found other pieces to be purely mean-spirited. You may hold up examples of quality work you have done, but it does not change the fact that you have written things that are bigoted. To be accurate, I should have merely said that this posting is bigoted.
The definition of Bigot on Wikipedia is: "A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own."
And so what is this posting, if not a public mocking of a group (Mennonites) whose opinions and identity differ from yours? Are you going to try and insist that you posted this for any reason other than to make fun of these people? If not, why did call them "pale" and "rural" and their material "dull"? Are these not subjective statements mean for derision?
Thanks, FOOFOODOODOO, for the answer.
You get a sense of my "bigotry," but only hold up this Boing Boing posting as evidence.
As a pale and rural person myself (I live near Port Townsend, WA), I don't see how these objective statements can qualify as bigotry.
If my opinion that the Mennonite CD contains "dull anti-evolution speeches" qualifies as bigotry, then would every single individual who expresses a non-qualified rave be a "bigot"?
I took the Mennonites' photo because I loved the incongruity of it. Is that bigotry?
Adam
What I meant to say was: "If my opinion that the Mennonite CD contains 'dull anti-evolution speeches' qualifies as bigotry, then would every individual who DOES NOT express a non-qualified rave be a bigot?"
If you're a sensitive soul who objects to Mennonites from being characterized as "pale" and "rural," then why are you so quick to judge someone as being a "bigot" without any substantiation whatsoever?
I've spent most of my life presenting readers to alternative lifestyles and belief systems without judgement. I might be the opposite of a bigot, which is why I'm sensitive to this uncalled-for accusation.
I'm sure you mean well, but please don't be so quick on the draw with such a harmful pejorative.
"Good name in man and woman, dear my lord,
Is the immediate jewel of their souls:
Who steals my purse, steals trash; 'tis something,
nothing;
'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to
thousands:
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed."
What's this about Mennonites not believing in evolution? My aunt and uncle are Mennonites and I've never heard anything about them not believing in evolution.
@CRASHGRAB
99.99% of the people who are labeled as "not believing in evolution" don't actually flat out NOT believe in evolution, as its easy to observe evolutions of necessity(micro evolution)or at least what is thought to be as such, but rather don't believe in a specific part which is the theory of evolution(life from nothing) not evolutionary fact(the changing of existing life), basically they don't believe in the idea that life can develop from inorganic matter after the universe superheated/exploded/whatever killing any organic matter that might have been able to start new life, so they don't believe that life can sprout from nothing and therefor was created by something, tho this does not effect there belief that already existing life evolves(its more complex than this but thats the basic idea), However most people have a bad habit of lumping things together, and this is the reason that most people who actually believe in evolution in part are lumped together with the extremely small percentage that flat out don't.
Adam,
I hereby publicly apologize for calling you a bigot. Maybe you are a bigot and maybe you are not, but the semantics are not nearly so important as are your actions.
In my first post I did reference actual work you have done. "Hatesville" was given to me by a former roommate many years ago. According to the credits you did not just "contribute" to this album (as you claim in above post) but you co-produced it. Does this make you responsible for every word spoken on this album? You tell me. All I know is that you have collaborated with the likes of Jim Goad, and you don't exactly seem to be trying to negate the notorious misogynist by putting your track "How God Makes Little Girls" right before his "Let's Hear It for Violence Towards Women".
I think your definition of bigotry is a little different than mine. Ok, so we differ on this. that's fine. You don't think you are a bigot because you support Obama. Good for you. You and Newt Gingrich can get together and exchange warm fuzzies over your enlightenment. But I will say this: Your defense of publicly mocking the Mennonites does not hold water for me. Yes, it is sometimes ok to mock a group of people if you are a member of the group, or if the people being mocked are in on the joke. You may be "rural" and "pale" but you are not a Mennonite, and the Mennonites are not in on the joke. And yes, you are mocking them. And yes, you do have a demonstrated pattern of this sort of behavior throughout your career.
Having said that, don't get me wrong. Go ahead, mock whomever you choose. Mock me for my thin skin. I don't care. My original comment was not directed at you, it was directed at Mark. I was suggesting to him my disapproval for putting this posting on his blog. But again, it is his blog not mine. I still think the posting is bigoted, but it is up to BoingBoing collaborators to decide whether it is worthy of thier site.
oh, and in response to your question:
"If my opinion that the Mennonite CD contains "dull anti-evolution speeches" qualifies as bigotry, then would every single individual who expresses a non-qualified rave be a "bigot"?"
The answer is no. A non-qualified rave does not make on a bigot. But an intolerant rant possibly could. An example of a non-qualified rave might be something, "Ice cream is fantastic!" An intolerant rant would be more like, "this ethnic group is funny-looking, and clearly do not belong in my city".
ok, I just read your next post in which you correct yourself.
"What I meant to say was: "If my opinion that the Mennonite CD contains 'dull anti-evolution speeches' qualifies as bigotry, then would every individual who DOES NOT express a non-qualified rave be a bigot?""
The answer is no. That is a ridiculous straw man.
"If you're a sensitive soul who objects to Mennonites from being characterized as "pale" and "rural," then why are you so quick to judge someone as being a "bigot" without any substantiation whatsoever?"
See above apology and substantiation.
FOO FOO:
Once again, I did not produce "Hatesville," which was inspired by and meant as a satirical take on Rod McKuen's "Beatsville" . If you read the credits correctly, you'd see that I co-produced my own four or five tracks recorded by me and Slayer Hippie at Mike Lastra's Smegma Studio in Portland. The other contributors produced their own tracks as well: Goad, Boyd Rice, Sean Partridge.
Personally, I felt that Jim Goad's contribution was aesthetically incorrect for this particular recording...and did not think that it was his best effort. But saying this, satire, and particularly effective satire, is by definition hard-minded and not a soft prop. Throughout history, good satire treads over that unspoken line that inflames sensitive readers/listeners. Did you ever hear Lenny Bruce or Richard Pryor or Rudy Ray Moore explain their "insensitive" and "bigoted" remarks? Did Jonathan Swift ever bend over backwards to explain why he did not mean exactly that the Irish should parboil and consume their children?
Again, I was not mocking Mennonites, and enjoyed their singing, and found it interesting to see them in an environment that seemed so out of place for them, thus the photos. I never said or intimated that they don't belong in "my" city. It's very strange to keep reading your explanations of my evil intent.
I now feel that perhaps I've explained too much, and that if people can't "get it," then perhaps they never will...
wait... say that part about Swift again - I fear I may have made a serious mistake...
didn't mean to say that Swift did not consider those kids very tasty
oh, and kudos to FooFoo and Feral for demonstrating the correct way to fight.
Adam,
I am very familiar with Bruce, Pryor, Goad, and your writings. I have read both Apocalypse Culture 1 and 2. I am not accusing you of evil intent, and your sense of satire is not lost on me. I apologized for calling you bigot. I agree the name calling was an unnecessary visceral reaction on my part. I cant remove that post, but I can apologize for it.
However, it is naive and dishonest of you to argue that you do not mock certain groups in your writing. Funny, I though that was a cornerstone of your style. As for Goad vs. Bruce and Pryor - Pryor was an ethnic minority and Bruce never went to prison for beating his wife. Goad both has written about and practiced violence towards women.
But again, I don't care about your background and I am only addressing that issue because you keep referring to it. We could argue forever about the nature of humor and whether it is ok for you to poke fun of someone or not. I am talking about this post, on this page, and the content contained herein. Either you are making fun of the Mennonites, or you are not. Which is it? Is this an ethnic joke that I am "too sensitive to get", or do you really not see any problem with snapping pictures of members of certain ethnic and social groups and pointing out how strange it is to see them somewhere that you did not expect them? How about snapping a picture of some Muslims with funny headwear? Or maybe some Hasidic Jews? Don't they seem strange when walking around certain neighborhoods where they "don't belong"? I think I got your point - did you get mine?
I never said that I never mocked anybody in my life, I merely claimed not to be a bigot. A bigot has ill-will, I guess that a satiric mock has ill-will, too, but only against what the mocker might feel is an inflexible and often hypocritical sense of self-righteousness.
Most of my work was not based on the satiric mock; most of it was investigative journalism. I guess the stuff I wrote for Goad's Answer ME! mag, one piece called "Pederastic Park" and the other a meditation on Andrea Dworkin, who claimed that every single act of sex between a man and woman constituted rape, had, I suppose, something of a mocking tone. I confess! But then these subjects were fully appropriate for the kind of tone applied to them.
The sense of self-righteousness that obscures true behavior I see with some Hillary supporters. No, I couldn't oppose this woman's Presidential bid because of her poor choices and bad behavior, it's because I'm a sexist.
So I can't take photographs of pale, washed, rural Mennonites among the dirty downtown LA streets without expressing "get the fuck out of my city"? BTW, I think a bunch of photos of weird and sometimes beautiful Hasidic headgear would be an interesting subject of photographs, as would Asians at the airport wearing masks and Muslim women covering every inch of their bodies with black cloth, as would often-ridiculous rich white people's gear in Orange County malls, or stylish black churchgoers' elaborate dress in a Baldwin Hills mall....
Open your eyes, my friend. Life's really quite interesting. Diane Arbus might agree.
big·ot Audio Help /ˈbɪgət/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[big-uht] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
tol·er·ance Audio Help /ˈtɒlərəns/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tol-er-uhns] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry.
2. a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward opinions and practices that differ from one's own.
3. interest in and concern for ideas, opinions, practices, etc., foreign to one's own; a liberal, undogmatic viewpoint.
an Arbusian non-Mennonite:
http://girljukebox.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/diane_arbus_blaze_starr_in_her_living_ro.jpg
Taking a picture is one thing, attaching a statement of judgment to it is another. let's parse the statement you made, generalizing the specific reference to Mennonites:
I thought it was a strange fish-out-of-water thing to see these on Broadway downtown. They handed me a CD of dull speeches, and had them in English and Spanish.
I return to my original argument about bigotry vs. mockery - often there is a fine line between them. The difference is typically whether the subject of the mockery is in on the joke. Diane Arbus did not express mockery of her subjects. Maybe you did not intend mockery either. My point here is that you are not merely putting out a picture and saying "here are some Mennonites". You are singling out characteristics that define them culturally, and making subjective statements about them in a tone that could easily be interpreted as being derisive.
"So I can't take photographs of pale, washed, rural Mennonites among the dirty downtown LA streets without expressing "get the fuck out of my city"?"
That's not what I said. I'm taking your words at face value, not reading more into them than that. You may argue that you did not say anything all that bad. I'm just saying that you are showing an example of bigotry, whether it be mild or outrageous. And once again, my point here is not that you said these things, but that BoingBoing chose to post them. Your readers might expect you to make such remarks in the name of satire, but BoingBoing's larger audience may not have the same expectation. Then again, maybe they will. Especially after this.
"Open your eyes, my friend. Life's really quite interesting..." Gosh. Thanks. Maybe someday I'll get out of Mayberry and then I'll understand why it's ok to make fun of people who don't look like me. I thought that the more of the world that I explored, the less I would notice the differences between people. Guess I still have a lot to learn. I know one thing, if I see you downtown and you are holding a camera, I will turn and walk the other way.
My post got a little mangled. My parse of your quote should have looked like this:
I thought it was a strange fish-out-of-water thing to see these [skin color][social class][place of origin people] on Broadway downtown. They handed me a CD of dull [belief system] speeches, and had them in English and Spanish.
http://www.duvekot.ca/eliane/archives/diane_arbus.jpg
one of my faves
I see love, not mockery
http://caraphillips.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/dianaarbuszondertitel3.jpg
I bow to you, Diane
http://english.uchicago.edu/graduate/amer/images/nelson3.jpg
My intent was not to "make fun" of the Mennonites, but take a photo of a visual incongruity. Why can't you get it?
BTW, I don't know of a more democratic-spirited, DIY, and non-bigoted individual than Mark Frauenfelder.
Another BTW, my father was a character actor and actually appeared on an episode of Mayberry RFD as "Goober's Brother." So, my friend, I remove from you the claim that you're in Mayberry. I was there first.
See here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0644692/
Ok, you win. There is nothing I can say that can counter that. From this point forward, I declare that the "Goober's Nephew" argument trumps all.
And I will concede that you seem to have had no ill intent in your posting. At the very least, you have clearly gone out of your way to indicate that you value cultural exchange. Kudos, and thanks for a good debate.
By the way, I stand corrected on my earlier "mean spirited" remark as well. Thanks again.
Now on to Iraq!
(not.)
Thanks, FooFooDooDoo!
garlands for the warriors!
Takun-Aaww geez did people(Adam)take being offense at being called "hate filled"? Profound 'pologies all round ,but hey hate kinda defines and drives my aesthetic as well so...My point was that I was enjoying the post and didn't think the contributers
were being bigoted at all.My point was with foofoodoodoo(who defended his position admirably if I may say).
dont want combat wit no-one especially Mr AP,He knows people,If you know what I mean;)
Takun-Aaww geez did people(Adam)take being offense at being called "hate filled"? Profound 'pologies all round ,but hey hate kinda defines and drives my aesthetic as well so...My point was that I was enjoying the post and didn't think the contributers
were being bigoted at all.My point was with foofoodoodoo(who defended his position admirably if I may say).
dont want combat wit no-one especially Mr AP,He knows people,If you know what I mean;)
Delope
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Delope (French for "throwing away") is the practice of throwing away one's first fire in a duel, in an attempt to abort the conflict. According to most traditions the deloper must first allow his opponent the opportunity to fire after the command ("present") is issued by the secondary, without hinting at his intentions. The Irish code duello forbids the practice of deloping explicitly.
The delope could be attempted for practical reasons if one's opponent was thought to be superior in ability, or for moral reasons if the duelist had objections to attempting to kill his opponent.
For one's opponent to insist upon a second shot after a delope was considered bloodthirsty and unbecoming. Often, it would fall to the secondaries to immediately end the duel after a delope had been observed.
Ah!I then sir,do chose to delope.i exit the arena.