Bigoted Ford dealership isn't actually sorry for its non-Christians "should sit down and shut up" ads
Remember Kieffe & Sons, the California Ford dealership that ran a radio ad saying that they were Christians, and non-believers could therefore "sit down and shut up" and stop demanding separation of church and state?
Remember how they apologized for saying this really dumb thing?
They take it back.
The owner of the dealership says that he was forced to issue the apology by Ford, and he doesn't stand behind it, and he only issued it to appease "blog-lo-dites."
“I don’t regret the sentiment at all,” said Kieffe, who bought the 48-year-old dealership from his father in 1974. “It’s what we believe.”Remember, this guy doesn't actually attend church. LinkKieffe & Sons has sites in Mojave and Rosamond.
The dealer’s Web site Thursday bore a statement about the ad that included an apology “to all who were offended.”
Kieffe said he’d been contacted by Ford Motor Co. after the manufacturer heard complaints from numerous “blog-lo-dites.”
See also:
Sit-down-and-shut-up "Christian" Ford dealership is run by a non-church attendee who is sorry about the ad
Ford dealership uses bigoted radio ads to sell cars
the latest
latest episodes
I knew it! I was discussing this this afternoon with my friend who writes radio ad copy. He was sure that Ford would have demanded an apology.
Kieffe is now in hot water with Ford for retracting the apology and insulting more people, more. I wonder what they're really up to. Maybe tie up Ford in a First Amendment legal wrangle for the publicity?
If he doesn't go to church but identifies as a Christian, you can be pretty sure that "Christian" is a code word for "Not A F**cking Rag Head".
Freedom of expression though. If he wants to be a jackass, his business can suffer (or not) for it.
Yeah, I think he likes the publicity. The best outcome would be if his business suffered and he went quietly bankrupt. But I doubt that will happen.
guess who just lost their dealership?
That would be some kind of interesting case - Ford is trying to stifle our First Amendment rights to utter anti-First Amendment speech.
Which is presumably protected speech and whatnot, but it would require some pretty amusing logical contortions...
At least he was honest in not meaning the apology. I'm not defending him in any way...but the honesty is a little refreshing.
I just heard the ad for the FIFTH time. This is fucking ridiculous.
Geez, leave these people alone already.
Dragonfrog, Ford is a private company so there isn't any First Amendment issue with them saying to this guy "If you keep saying this we won't sell to you."
@5 There's no 'stifling' or first amendment stuff going on here...
The dealership is free to say whatever it wants... and Ford is free to say "you give our brand a bad name, and we're revoking your dealership account and ability to use the Ford logo"
I'm pretty sure that's what Ford told the dealership before, and what @4 was suggesting.
I was referring to Ross @1. I guess you're right though - only if the government was getting involved would a constitutional amendment have anything to do with it...
For a guy who doesn't attend a church, he sure has that whole bigoted, redneck, cowardly Christian act down pretty well.
I wonder if the folks at Ford will do the right thing and remove their affiliation with this maniac and his self-righteous nonsense. At this point, however, he seems to be milking that whole "there's no such thing as bad publicity" thing.
I didn't buy his apology in the first place. I thought the blog they made was probably a more accurate reflection of their position. When a small business owner says he didn't sign off on ad copy, it's pretty dubious. The honesty now isn't refreshing to me as much as it just confirms my belief in the stupidity of these people.
Maybe they're angling for martyrdom. Many small car dealerships are failing. If they're going down anyway, why not attract some attentions and sympathy with a lot of flames? It looks like a stupid thing to do, but what if they're really doing something else, and it's smart?
Pfft. Looks like a stupid marketing ploy, to me. Ford will most likely yank the account and just shut 'em down. Insulting people simply for thinking differently is in very poor taste.
The link's links didn't work, so I couldn't read the entire entry over on Consumerist, but the photo over there of the back of his car made me think of the "Stuff White People Like" post about bumper stickers. There's even an east coast Ivy League wannabe university sticker on the back windshield.
Just saying.
OK, I forgive everything just for 'blog-lo-dites'. That is the best new word I've heard all year.
The Consumerist page that Cory's link points to is presently not functioning properly but given their past work, will probably be a really good read when it is.
You Blog-lo-dytes.
blog-yo-dykes!!?? BLOG-YO-DYKES!!!???? oooooooh,now I'm really mad!
Go Ford ,now take his franchise away.
I am for giving up separation of Church and State
so that religion institutions as a business become
taxable (see em run).
Let's stop Religious tax fee welfare.
Hit the laugh button.
By the way Jesus does not like car pollution.
What a wonderful term -- blog-lo-dites! (and not too far off the mark, reading these comments ;-) Welcome this guy to his 13 bytes of fame:
"anti-Kieffe cars insurgence -- so easy, even a blog-lo-dite can do it."
Well, if they believe it so strongly, perhaps they should only sell to those who share their beliefs
Well, as long as all you (us) bloglodites don't shop at Mega-lo-mart.
The guy, Keiffe, is still a prick and I hope his business goes down the toilet. He's a bigot and a jerk.
Sooooo, when will the mass protests by scads of "real" and "decent" Christians against this guy take place?
Shouldn't it be bloglodyte with a 'y'? Joan Blogford is rolling over in her grave.
More importantly, should a Christian even believe in the concept of a blog-lo-dite / bloglodyte, assuming he's referencing the troglodyte?
troglodyte \TROG-luh-dyt\, noun:
1. A member of a primitive people that lived in caves, dens, or holes; a cave dweller.
yeah, I was thinking it should be spelt with a y too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphodite
So, bigot and atrocious speller/creator of words?
So if someone who blogs from a cave is a Blog-lo-Dyte then is Cory, who blogs from a hot air balloon a Blog-lo-Naut? Or a Blog-vi-Ator?
spelt - I thought it was a funny. Guess not, thanks for your correction Agent86.
???
no correction, simply a statement about the anti-godless owner.
Jimh@13: You took the words right out of my keyboard. =D
Automatt@8: We'll leave them alone when they stop spewing their intolerance across the airwaves.
Blog-o-dytes Unite!
Dyslexics Untie!
Agent - sorry for my misinterpretation, I'm too sleepy to keep up. Better I should go to bed.
Spelt is steampunk spelling for spelled.
bless you Antin, I knew I thought I wasn't crazy.
I've often spelt 'spelled' that way. Spelt is also a grain, IINM.
As for this bozo car dealer, I hope Ford outright pulls his franchise now. First an offensive ad, then a half-assed non-apology (with a lie about not having approved the text of the ad), then announcing that his apology was insincere? I can't see why they would still have patience with him.
Next we'll be hearing, "Wait-- I wasn't really sincerely retracting my retraction. I was just approached by some Christian groups in the area and they said they'd boycott me if I didn't retract the retraction."
"And I didn't mean 'blog-lo-dites' in a bad way-- not really!"
"Splunge!!"
The thing to do is to dress very nicely, visit his dealership, ask a hundred questions about a various cars, decide on one, take it for a test drive, haggle a bit, make a deal, then just before you sign the papers say "Oh, wait! *You're* the Sit Down And Shut Up guys?? I'm sorry, I can't do business with you!" And leave.
Repeat with various friends and colleagues.
It's all over folks, the internet is done and finished. It's been twenty years in the making (for me at least), but now the internet has amused itself to death... It's no longer a playground for counter culture or a stomping ground for those wanting to expand their bounds... The random crap on the internet is officially overly concerned with a small town car dealership advert... so much so that public discourse on important issues has disappeared...
"
We watched the tragedy unfold
We did as we were told
We bought and sold
It was the greatest show on earth
But then it was over
We ohhed and aahed
We drove our racing cars
We ate our last few jars of caviar
And somewhere out there in the stars
A keen-eyed look-out
Spied a flickering light
Our last hurrah
Our last hurrah
"
-- Roger Waters "Amused to death"
So, you don't feel that the religious right taking over the US and imposing its views as the social norm is an important issue? Remarkable.
JustPat 69: I will hail as Heroes of Our Revolution any who do so!
Free Speech: worth every penny!
On behalf of all Christians, I would like to apologize for this guy's behavior. He is not a real Christian, just some selfish, opportunistic person, trying to benefit from the publicity at the expense of Christians.
I would also like to extend an invitation to him to attend a church, any nearby church. And please read the bible now and then. There's no kind way to put it, but if he truly considers himself a Christian, and is doing this honestly; he is unfortunately misguided. This is not the way to glorify God's name. What he is doing is only giving Christianity a bad reputation.
He should stop the ads, and issue another apology, to both non-Christians and Christians alike. If he refuses, I urge all Christians to boycott all his businesses.
Considering that there was no chance such an ad could get through without the owner's approval, I'm not surprised at all.
@dainel
Define "real Christian" in such a way that everyone who considers themselves a "real Christian" is included.
Antinous@41: Amen!
Ford is all like,: "We are gonna destroy, these fucking, opportunistic-theist bastards!"
upon reading the boingboing post, God is at his computer, and he is all like: "Jesus, get off your lazy ass and save that car dealership!"
Jesus gets in his Ford Fiesta and drives to Cali.
Jesus uses magic. and travels in time. and convinces Ford not to revoke the dealership.
then the people of Mojave, California are all like: "hallelujah, it done be a miracles! Jesus, he done saved our Kiefe and Sons Ford dealership! and then Jesus is all like: "Have you a driven a Ford lately?". Jesus smiles, and winks into the camera.
Blogosphere vs Small Town America
Round 2
FIGHT!
These guys may just be trying to get out of their distributorship contract with Ford and figure that this is as cost-effective a way to do it as any.
Profoundly un-Christian , though, rendering unto Caesar what should be God's...or vice-versa, offering unto God what is rightfully Caesar's.
#2: Freedom of expression though. If he wants to be a jackass, his business can suffer (or not) for it.
So if I have a business, I should be free to put a "No Jews" or "Whites Only" sign on the front door? I think not.
PS: #38 FTW.
The only thing a business can do is make business decisions. If corp.s are artificial persons it follows that their religion must also be artificial.
(And please please end the occupation of Iraq, a more important matter than this, for a long long time now.Thanx for your indulgence in advance for considering this OT sentiment.)
If it is what he believes fine, those that like the ad can go and buy at his dealership, but I won't be one of them.
Here's an interesting article in The Bakersfield Californian with additional information about the situation:
http://www.bakersfield.com/hourly_news/story/458415.html
"so much so that public discourse on important issues has disappeared..."
If you don't think that the way the Christian majority in this country acts towards non-Christian members of society isn't an important issue in our national discourse, I don't know what to say.
Do you not think that Christian attitudes to non-Christians had any effect on the lack of consideration given to the war in Iraq? Do you think it is not part of the attitude behind forcing Intelligent Design into the classrooms? Do you not think that religion is the primary reason people have been writing and passing Constitutional Amendments to prevent gays from marrying?
What about the fact that churches that wanted to show inclusiveness in their ads were not allowed to air those ads on CBS or NBC, but exclusionary religious ads are never censored? And none of this reflects on public policy or media consolidation? If you want people to be more thoughtful on any of these things, if you want there to be space for you to operate freely and without intrusion when you find yourself in a minority position, you should probably find this discussion more interesting and pertinent to "the public discourse."
Certainly one of the most important aspects of free speech is that if there's "bad" free speech out there, it is best to counter it with more free speech, such as our arguments about this ad, than to stifle it, which of course would be the ad writer's approach. One thing the Internet has really helped us with is the fact that when these guys act like nobody really disagrees with them, they end up finding out how many "nobodies" there are out there.
When JW Horne is taken up the the big Ad Agency in the Sky, the Celestial Creative Director is going to take him off the God account, then he will have to sit down and shut up for all eternity.
Dainel @44, well said! If anyone in this situation could convince listeners that not all Christians are doofuses like Kieffe & Son, it would be you.
Agent86 @46:
Not possible -- or rather, you can only do that by rendering meaningless the terms "Christian" and "real Christian".Unfortunately for Kieffe & Son, we have it on good authority that not everyone who claims that title qualifies. This is from the seventh chapter of the Gospel of Matthew:
So there are your basic definitions. First, merely calling yourself a Christian, and considering yourself one, doesn't cut the mustard.Next, adopting doctrines and practices whose effects run counter to Jesus' teachings is not an indication that someone is a Christian. Kieffe & Son flunk this part of the test. Their supposedly Christian statements are just boastfulness and pride. They bring Christianity into disrepute. They aren't ashamed to lie.
Third, Christianity consists of doing your best to emulate Christ, and following his commandments, or God's commandments as taught by him (depending on you opinion of the Trinity). They're the same commandments either way.
So, are Kieffe & Son Christians? I don't know, and it would be extremely presumptuous of me to say. What I can say, though, is that their recent actions are anything but Christian.
Okay, if you openly take it back, that kind of negates your appeasing them in the first place. There's so much about this that doesn't make sense. Sigh.
I'm just glad there's scripture for me to read today on boing boing. Amen.
so how do Christians protect their brand? Why haven't they sued this car dealer into oblivion?
ha, thanks TNH, I was going for slight snark but it is always fun to be informed.
Mostly I was saying that I don't like it when the good folks of my religion of choice disown anyone who does public bad, as though it makes us look better. I feel like the Christian motto has become, "Join us, we'll throw you to the wolves first chance we get!" Christianity should be about focusing on the positive and uplifting those around you, not ostracizing and dejecting.[IMHO]
Also, I think I busted a blood-vessel laughing at your religious gas-mileage bit in one of the previous threads.
Daniel: Really well said. I'm a Unitarian and would extend the same invitation to the gentleman. At our church you'd hear conversations about science and faith, about working with secular groups to achieve good works common to all people.
When we host meetings for Doctors without Borders or Habitat for Humanity we don't post a bouncer at the door asking "Theist or Atheist?"
What this person is doing is shameful and sad. Being known as the car dealer hates, period, is about as Un-Christian a sentiment as I can think of.
There is an important (if obvious) lesson in this story: you can't bully someone into being sorry for the fact that he's a jerk. At best, you can just convince him to conceal his bigotry, and probably express it just as venomously but less publicly.
Anecdotal evidence suggests to me that something similar has happened with racism in the U.S. Terms like "racist" and "bigot" have become pejorative, and so racists and bigots do their best to avoid public recognition as such. Simultaneously, they carry on the very behavior that defines the terms.
At every office I've ever worked, there have been numerous individuals who make jokes and disparaging remarks about other ethnic groups in private, but who flatly deny being racists.
TNH@57: The word my church uses for those that Jesus describes as entering the Kingdom of Heaven is "saint".
Which isn't the same as "Christian", as I see it, but is what Christians aspire to become: someone who has been saved, and is in unbreakable communion with God. (I realize this may be rather different from the LDS usage, which seems to apply "saints" to its church members in general.)
Why not use "Christian" as a synonym for "saint"? Well, it's helpful in general to have a word for people who believe in the basic, defining claims of a particular religion, and make some attempt to follow its precepts. That seems to be what most people use "Christian" to describe. It also makes it possible for me to others to describe people as "Christians" fairly reliably, whereas it would presumptuous of me to decide who among us is a saint.
That means we're stuck with both good Christians and bad Christians. But that's no surprise: St. Paul tells us in effect that all of us Christians are bad Christians to some extent.
I consider myself a Christian. I hope to be a saint, but I will have to leave that final definition of myself to God.
Actually, this is standard policy at Ford. It's well documented that Henry Ford himself was a notorious anti-semite and even ran an entire newspaper, the Dearborn Independent for the sole purpose of publishing his anti-semitic rants:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Ford#Dearborn_Independent
So, this is nothing new, really.
@65: I truly hope you know better than this. Henry Ford's attitudes 60 years ago are well known. That this affects the policies and actions of the company today is totally false.
I'm surprised someone mischievious hasn't subscribed the dealership (or at least Kieffe) to every pagan, muslim, jewish newsletter and mailing campaign that they can find.
Kieffe. kieffe, keffie, keffiyeh...KEFFIYEH!
All becomes clear.
Daniel "I would also like to extend an invitation to him to attend a church, any nearby church."
Your wish might not work out. Lots of churches (big "C" Conservative, bible-only, biblical literalist, inerrantist, etc), apparently, support his kind of "us vs them" exceptionalism I have little firsthand experience of this myself, as I'd just go for the wine and cracker. Grape juice and cracker just isn't the same. Even wine and cracker isn't all that great (house wine! Pah!).
"And please read the bible now and then."
...just make sure to start at the Gospels. End there, too. Maybe add Job and Ecclesiastes if he's got time. Avoid the Torah and Joshua (oh, god, especially Joshua). Also, I recomment that he skip that book at the end (it's riddled with spoilers). But what do I know? According to 1John2:22, I'm both a liar and an Anti-Christ. My plate is full. Full of evil! Moo ha-ha!
Teresa Nielsen Hayden / Moderator; speaking of Biblical quotes...
There's more, obviously (both more that supports this and more and directly conflicts with it). The Bible is supportive of both christian (small "c") behavior, and the opposite of such, depending on which passages are focussed on and which are ignored. He (and those of his ilk) just forget the huggy-luvvy bits, because hate and ignorance are sooo much easier. Plus, his personal relationship with Jesus Christ means that his Personal Jesus is a jerk, too, so it's no wonder that they get along so well.
"Next, adopting doctrines and practices whose effects run counter to Jesus' teachings..."
Jerks tend to focus on the non-Gospel Jesus, Paul's Jesus, which differs remarkably from Jesus Jesus (Jesus Jesus, incidentally, replaced Lisa Lisa in Cult Jam), if memory serves, although the Gospels have "issues" as well ("Take that, fig tree!").
"They bring Christianity into disrepute."
That they do. Pat Robertson is worth half a billion dollars, by the way. Disrepute is profitable, when people (some of whom are disreputable themselves) think you speak for God. It hasn't worked out so well for this guy, though. He sells Fords.
"They aren't ashamed to lie."
But to "them" it's the noble lie, right? Besides, I'm sure that their Personal Jesus would forgive them, if they ever bothered to show remorse...which for some is moot anyway, as the narrow path is much wider once you knock "faith, grace and works" down to "faith and grace".
"Third, Christianity consists of doing your best to emulate Christ..."
But what if your Personal Jesus is a jerk? He seems supportive of virtually every possible position. Also, if it's Jesus telling you (or JC telling Paul to tell you) to shun outsiders and engage in acts of boobery, then it's got much more weight behind it than if you thought that it was just a voice in your head. Which is handy, as Jesus is Jesus, while a voice in your head is just a voice in your head.
"...their recent actions are anything but Christian."
I agree, although I'd use the small "c" christian. I'm like that. I use the small everything.
Takuan "so how do Christians protect their brand?"
In the USA they normally split off and form a new, One True Church.
TAKUAN @60: Unfortunately, we have no way to protect our 'brand', as it were. This has left our name open to exploitation by numerous groups and individuals throughout history, and has resulted in a lot of bad press for our faith. See: Crusades, Hitler, and G.W. Bush.
Fortunately, more and more people are realising that it's not the brand that really matters, it's how you interpret Christ's declaration, 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbour as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'
If we apply that simple metric to any situation, we should be able to easily determine the true 'nature of the beast', so to say.
bloglodytes unite!
Onward Christian Car Dealers or was that soldiers?
Who needs organized religion to pray and be good anyway? In any event I am old and getting ready to
be dead one day or more usually as statistics prove one night.
Read the philosopherBertrand Russell's book from decades ago"Why I am Not a Christian" for a history of the "Holy Christian" folk through out the ages.
This ad is un-American.
Our country was founded on religious freedom. And by "founded," I mean when invaded the Indians. And by "Inndians" I mean Native Americans.
Mintphresh @71 "bloglodytes unite!"
Shouldn't that be "bloglodytes unyte!"?
or: bloglodytes untie! as they are the 'halve knots'.
Our Ford, who aren't in Heaven,
harrowed be thy name,
thy dealership come,
whose ad be dumb,
according to Bakersfield Californian,
give us this day our daily fundie,
and forgive us our flames as we forgive those who flame against us,
and lead us not into trollbait,
but let us be civil,
for thine is the corporation,
the power of the story,
for ever and ever,
amen.
Oh, Ford! We Beseech Thee...
Oh, look! People I don't like! How can I stop them?!
signed,
Chairman Meow,
The Committee Against All Bad Thoughts
They can sell whoever they want to sell to. Who gives a rat's ass?
or: bloglodytes untie! as they are the 'halve knots'.
(delayed) OW!
OW!OW!
OW! I bow before the masters (but I never lay prostate)
wise,very wise
A woman has twins and gives them up for adoption. One of them goes
to a family in Egypt and is named "Ahmal." The other goes to a family
in Spain; they name him "Juan." Years later, Juan sends a picture of
himself to his birth mother. Upon receiving the picture, she tells her
husband that she wishes she also had a picture of Ahmal. Her husband
responds, _________________________
Takuan; puns are the lowest form of humour.
yep, that's why cows like 'em