Ford dealership uses bigoted radio ads to sell cars
Kieffe and Sons, a Ford dealership in Mojave, California, has a new radio ad in which they try to court Christian car buyers by announcing that they believe that non-Christians in America should "sit down and shut up."
["Did you know that there are people in this country who want prayer out of schools, "Under God" out of the Pledge, and "In God We Trust" to be taken off our money?"]Link (via Pharyngula)"But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in God? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Christians, who believe in God, we at Kieffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is America folks, it's called free speech. None of us at Kieffe & Sons Ford is afraid to speak out. Kieffe & Sons Ford on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don't see you today, by the grace of God, we'll be here tomorrow."
But wait, isn't the idea of free speach that people are allowed to express any opinion, even the opinion "I don't believe in God" or "I believe in God, but I still don't want him in school"...
I love the pairing of "sit down & shut up" in the same breath as "it's called free speech".
I'm pretty sure that "believing in God" and "Being a Christian" are not necessarily the same thing. Also, I'm not sure how this is supposed to sell cars. But I guess they can say whatever they want.
I wonder if they'd consider "Eat shit and die" free speech? How about "May Kali devour your heart"?
I hope the grace of God sends them a nice tornado or earthquake and wipes their business off the map. Here's your chance, Christian God, to show your quality. Have you learned ANYTHING since Jericho? I say squash 'em.
As an atheist, I like it. In fact, I want to walk in there with a fat wad of my evil, godless money to see if these Christian nutbags have the conviction and faith to not sell me a car.
Then again, there's a pretty good chance I'd be stuck with a freakin' Ford.
Well, at least they're honest about their bigotry.
I still can't figure out how people like that reconcile their beliefs about school prayer, "Under God", and "In God We Trust" with the First Amendment.
My guess is, they just ignore the Amendment.
"... no practical definition of freedom would be completely without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based." - Terry Pratchett, Going Postal.
I love that quote.
The Ford Dealership has every right to spout off with their religious and political views. Then, they get to excercise their right to accept the consequences. That would involve me taking my business to a dealership that's more interested in selling me a quality vehicle at a fair price - rather than boring me with rhetoric.
Belief in God = Christian?
Christian = "Sit down and shut up"?
"Sit down and shut up" = Free speech?
Why not just say "If you don't believe in Jesus, go fuck yourself. Otherwise--buy a Ford!"
OK, having thought for a couple of minutes, definitely a tornado, not an earthquake. Tornados can pick out just one home or business and destroy it, leaving others untouched. Earthquakes, not so much. I don't want to bring down wrath on the whole area just because of one freakin' loony toon.
I'd really like to ask them if they favor the "traditional Pledge of Allegiance" or the "altered version." I bet most people don't realize that the altered version is the one WITH the "under God" in it.
Actually, I think this guy is just setting himself up for the inevitable collapse most small car dealerships will face with the economy and the price of gas being what they are.
Now, when his business folds, he can blame it all on Christian persecution.
Brilliant!
As a Roman Catholic, I find this ad offensive and wrong on so many levels.
Those that believe in God are not only the Christians.
86% is disingenuous, did they ask every single person in America? Where do they get their facts?
I really cannot conceive of a more bankrupt theology than one which is used to sell automobiles. Make me want to run out and sell my T-bird.
This is actually a good thing!
Ford, like the other US manufacturers, simply has too many dealers!
It's not so easy to reduce the number of dealerships, since most are franchises, and most franchise laws are state laws that are designed to protect the franchisee, which in this case is the dealer!
Now this dealer just gave Ford a defensible "out" of the franchise agreement!
anyone remember:
my eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the lord
he is driving down the alley in a green and yellow ford
he has one hand on the throttle and
another on a bottle of
pabst blue ribbon beeeeeeeer
What the hell? What kind of radio station would air such an inflammatory ad?
They basically just told 14% of their potential customers to go pound sand. How fortunate for them that they have so much excess business that they can turn away sales for the selfish indulgence of insulting strangers.
Interesting fact: Ford is based in Dearborn, MI. Dearborn is the center of the largest population of people of Middle Eastern extraction outside of the Middle East. Something like 7% - 10% of the 2.2 million people in Greater Detroit. Lots of them are Chaldean Christians, but many are Muslims. It wouldn't surprise me to find that Dearborn has more Muslims per capita than any other major city in the US. And lots and lots of them work for Ford.
Let's see if his god will save the American auto manufacturers!
@#13: I can tell you three types of stations that'd play it. Conservative Talk Radio, Christian radio, and Country and Western.
Frankly I think his "Free speech" statement is false, the attitude "sit down and shut up" and tough shit if you're offended reflects hate speech not free speech. And hate speech isn't protected by the law. Where's the ACLU to nail these assholes to the wall.
It's people like that that make people like me loathe anyone professing to be a Christian, until their actions prove them worthy of anything else.
I guess that answers the age-old question: WWJD?
(What would Jesus drive?)
Too often these days it seems that "Christian" = bigoted redneck.
JSG, they got 86% from either this right-wing email forward or this one. The second one also includes "sit down and shut up" phrasing. I think there's also one that purports to be written by Andy Rooney that has essentially the same phrasing.
They've told more than 14% to go pound sand, too. Plenty of people who do believe in God will find this offensive. Might work in the Bible Belt, but in CA? I'm suspicious.
@19: Good point. By far the majority of Christians are tolerant people. Would they want to be seen doing business with people who advertise themselves as bigots?
Get ready for the big Going out of Business sale at Keiffe and Sons.
One of the greatest gifts of truly understanding the notion of free speech is being neither offended nor particularly interested when someone exercises their right to say something inflammatory. Their speech is, after all, free. And you likely understand by this point that, except in rare cases, you get what you pay for.
I think if Jesus were alive, he'd call that car dealership a bunch of assholes.
Just as Bin Laden doesn't speak for most Muslims, nitwits like this don't speak for Christians.
I agree Reluctant Paladin. This kind of talk has consequences, and the right to speak comes with the responsibility to face the music.
I also agree with the previous comment that this is about desperation during an economic downturn that will wipe out many car dealerships. What on earth will all those slicked-back hair salesmen do now for a living.
One again showing you don't have to be the brightest of bulbs to sell cars or advertise.
I can believe 86% of Americans believe in God. Of course, that doesn't mean they're CHRISTIAN, or in other way relgious at all. Sigh.
86% of Americans believe in God
Christians believe in God
Ergo, 86% of Americans are Christians.
But then again, using your "free speech" to tell people to "sit down and shut up" speaks the same volumes as that previous leap in logic.
Keiffe and Sons indicates here that they know who remains in the market demographic for fuel hungry SUV's and trucks that Ford sells.
Very canny advertising.
About the 86% thing, i bet it comes from how many people say they are christian on census/whatever forms, which is a VERY different thing to whether they believe in god or not.
In the UK 2001 census, 71.75% claim to be christian. yet out of my wide family and everyone i know/work with i'd say that figure looks about right, but actual belief in god down as 15% or less...
A lot of people will say they're christian out of sheer force of habit or just to not cause a fuss...
ROSSINDETROIT 14: While I don't at all contest your point here, I feel I must point out that 'per capita' means 'for each head', and so the number of Muslims per capita can never be more than one, even in a 100% Muslim place.
HollywoodBob 16; Jake0748 18: Fight that tendency. It's a prejudice. As a secularly-raised neoPagan, I had plenty of negative ideas about Christians...until I really got to know some. Remember that the quiet, courteous ones generally don't self-identify right away (that's changing now that assholes like this one are giving Christianity a bad name more and more).
I imagine they, hearing sentiments like yours in these two posts, must feel about how I feel when Europeans talk about how rotten "the Americans" are. They mean George and Dick and Condi and all their loathsome breed, of course, and I quite sympathize, but I still feel like saying wait wait wait, we're not all like that!
Caroline 19: Hear, hear.
ROSSINDETROIT 20: Amen, insh'Allah, aché, so mote it be.
AirPillo 21: I disagree. We don't have a right not to be offended, but we certainly have a right to take offense. There's nothing about free speech that requires us to refrain from objecting, or even to be disinterested. We mustn't advocate suppressing or censoring them (though we have the freedom to advocate those things, they're not consistent with a belief in free speech), but that doesn't take away our rights, among which are the right to boycott and censure them.
On the other hand, "Free speech: you get what you pay for" is a great line, which I fully intend to steal and apply widely!
I'm contacting Ford to find out what they think about this.
Free speech is one thing, but bigoted actions by a company are certainly quite another. I thought we were (mostly) past the whole "No Jews, No Blacks" kind of business world.
If I don't get a good answer from Ford, I'll boycott the company for a few years. The only real God in the United States is the all mighty dollar.
im atheist now, but even when i was a christian i didnt think prayer should be in schools, god on my money, or my religion to be forced upon others in any way shape or form. what a cock-bite.
I believe in God but I am not a Christian. Although I think Christ was on to something.
Xopher, of course you are right. I do know many kind and decent Christians. I guess what I meant to say is that the LOUDEST "Christians" these days seem to be bigoted, narrow minded, etc.
Good for them, flexing their right to free speech. I always find it useful to find out exactly who I am dealing with, before I mistakenly buy a car from them.
Now, I'll do some free speech of my own and ask Ford corporate if they agree with them, and if not, why these shlubs still have a franchise?
That's it, I'm going out to buy a nice Shinto Toyota.
Jake0748: Very true. So are the loudest everything!
I remember a story about a gathering I did not attend, followed by a certain woman I won't name attaching herself to a party of people going out to dinner. When they got to the restaurant she announced "we want a separate table for the vegetarians so we won't have to watch you people eating dead animals."
Had I been there, I'd've said "Well, we're NOT going to have a separate table for all the vegetarians, because I'm going to sit with the polite people!"
yes @28; What is the official position of the Ford Motor Corporation ion this matter? Will it be as aggressively pursued as the possibly unauthorized use of Ford Mustang images were in an enthusiast's calendar?
Does the law of jurisdiction in this case classify this attack on non-self-declared "christians" as hate speech?
Do any other "christian" groups wish to litigate over this co-option of their "brand"?
Though this sounds fantastically ignorant, I can't say that it's hate speech, but undoubtedly the advertisers believe their preaching to a choir of like-minded a-holes. It's certainly their right.
Just as it's the right of Janeane Garofalo to call everyone who votes for Bush a "retard" on Air America. This less than elegant use of the word "retard" seems to be a regular part of Ms. Garofalo's vocabulary, and it also makes her sound fantastically ignorant, and I'm sure she believes she's preaching to a choir of like-minded a-holes as well.
But it aint hate speech. I don't know the legal definition of hate speech, but what I imagine might be a reasonable definition would involve the implication of violence, or the incitement of violence in some shape or form. You can say all the us's and thems you want to, and I think the key word is "bigoted" here. The Ford dealership is acting in just as bigoted a fashion as Ms. Garofalo.
I don't think either kind of bigotry is especially rare. I'm sure you could find many other instances of comically ignorant statements made on both the left and the right to promote whatever their agenda happens to be, be it to sell cars or radio advertising space, and it's safer to make these extreme statements when you believe your among friends you believe to be like-minded a-holes.
It's a gimme that Boing Boing for the most part is a site that appeals to lefties. Thus this Ford Dealership quote has been taken out of its safe haven of like-minded a-holes and has been planted into a hive of differing like-minded folks, be they a-hole or otherwise, and the reaction is fantastically disproportionate to the quality of the indiscretion.
I make frequent trips to the Eastern Sierra, passing through Mojave each time. From now on I'm not stopping there for fuel or food; I'll get it either back in Palmdale or I'll wait till I hit Lone Pine. Will this effect the whole town? Sure, but I don't care. When they run this douche bag out of town I'll start spending money in that town again. I can't just say that I'll never buy a car at this dealership, because there's no way on gods green earth that I would *ever* buy a Ford.
Boba Fett Diop 33: Huh. I always thought Toyotas seemed more Buddhist. Live and learn.
Though of course it's entirely possible to be both.
Since they reference free speech, I'd like to point out that all those who find this offensive, should they live nearby should by all means go down to the dealership, ask to see the owner, and tell him to fuck himself. Ideally, don't even tell him why. Let him figure out for himself why three people today drove up, said "Fuck You" to his face and left.
Jed: I assume you're objecting to Garofalo's use of the politically-incorrect term 'retard', and not to the very well-founded assumption that anyone who voted for him in 2004 is stupid.
The ACLU would laugh at anyone suggesting that they sue the radio station, or the Ford dealership. despite right wing propaganda, the ACLU's suits around religion have involved actual acts of discrimination, or government sponsored religious conduct in a setting where people were forced to either participate, or get noticed for not participating.
Once gas hist $10 a gallon, I'll be living in a city, and saving vast amounts by not owning a car.
Might I make a small plug for one Christian group. I live among Mennonites. My wife, daughter and I live in an apartment complex owned and operated by Mennonites, who do not care that we identify ourselves as neo-pagans, who do not proselytize to us and who charge us a reduced rent in a high rent area (Evanston,IL). These people live the life they preach about - they are similar in a lot of ways to the Catholic Workers, quite granola - which suits us fine - we're the same way, just not into religion. So if there is one group of Christians who are not bigoted, who are about peace and justice, who have bumper stickers on their cars (no horse and buggy here) that say "poverty and homelessness are moral issues", that would be the Mennonites! They could inspire a reggae song!
Wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance created for a marketing campaign to sell flags?
good grief. it really sounds like they've been playing grand theft auto waaaay too much (and been listening to 'the weasel').
If only every bigot was as open as honest so we knew to avoid all of their business so that we could slowly choke them out financially.
Ford has very rigorous standards for affiliate advertising. I have no doubt that this violates a number of rules and that the dealer will be hearing about it right away. It's a pretty serious violation of their contract as a dealer to disparage any group in an ad.
Regarding Mennonites, they're in my family background and yes, they do walk the walk. They are one group that could convert by example if more people saw the dedication of their whole lives to their beliefs.
Jesus was a pretty adamant opponent of the use of religion for selling merchandise, not to mention someone who made an effort to include marginalized people.
Sounds like these guys might actually want to read the Bible sometime.
http://radio.about.com/library/blwkrpturkeydropaudio.htm
@ #36 Jed Alexander: Thus this Ford Dealership quote has been taken out of its safe haven of like-minded a-holes and has been planted into a hive of differing like-minded folks, be they a-hole or otherwise, and the reaction is fantastically disproportionate to the quality of the indiscretion.
That's a pretty facile observation, Jed. Save for some isolated remarks, many of which I take for camp, most of the reactions here have been fairly level-headed. Since you're so fond of role-reversal, were the tables turned and a conservative message board was discussing a car dealership that was willing to do business with everyone but Christians, do you honestly believe their discussion would be nearly as calm, pragmatic and light-hearted as this one has been? I'm sorry, but that seems a stretch to me.
Maybe BB just isn't as virulently lefty as an analogous right-wing discussion might be, or maybe it's that with the perspective that tends to lend to a lefternly bent (say that five times fast) comes a quiet, dignified assurance in one's opinions, a balance between confidence and humility shared by those of faith who needn't prosyletize to convince themselves of the rightness of their beliefs. Obviously, no one claims to be perfect (that's where that humility comes in), as the speech tics of those like Janeane Garofaolo prove (though she'd be perfect for me ;9 ). Those on the opposite side of the spectrum might acknowledge their fallibility from time to time if they expect to be taken seriously.
Complaint sent to Ford, w/ BB story link.
It felt good.
This car dealer probably got his figures from the last US Census, where 78% of adult respondents identified themselves as "Christian". Throw in the other two major monotheistic religions (who, presumably, believe in God) and the percentage rises to 86% who believe in God. So I don't think the numbers cited in the ad are that far off.
How can one think that the owner of this dealership is one the "loudest" Christians? His ad aired on a small town local radio station, in the middle of nowhere Mojave, CA (I spent a lonely night there years ago and can attest that it is indeed pretty much in the middle of nowhere.) If this hadn't been been posted here, maybe a few thousand people total would have ever heard the actual ad.
The reason you may think he's one of the "loudest" Christians is because boingboing rarely, if ever, posts positive stories about Christianity. (That's fine. The owners of this site can post whatever stories they like. f thy wnt t pst 30 lnks n th lst mnth bt nw bk n f thm thrd, thy cn d tht t.)
There are literally hundreds of millions of Christians who are tolerant, loving, giving human beings, but it's only the crazy ones that make the news.
I find it fascinating that many of the same people who rightly dismiss the actions of a small number of Muslim zealots as not being representative of Islam somehow believe that the small number of Christian zealots *are* representative of all Christianity.
I take issue with any attempt to characterize BB as "lefty" or "rightist" etc. Not only is labeling lazy and an enemy of truth, I do not think this kind of thinking does justice to this forum of ideas.
I see BB as ceiling and floor, Heaven and Earth perhaps. When real evil walks it, let the sky fall upon it and the ground reach up, grasp its ankles and pull it down.
The bigot is selling Fords using Christian faux persecution propaganda. Ford then uses that money to advertise in gay/lesbian publications and support groups like PFLAG, which makes Christian groups like American Family Association very irate. I am amused.
The idea that freedom of speech means you get to be a jerk is something I expect to encounter on really immature online forums. Sure you have the legal right to do it, but you're still being a jerk.
JED ALEXANDER - do we need to remind you that Janeane Garofalo is a comedian?
XPHR: Wht bjct t s Grfl's nblty t rtclt rl rgmnt nd dpndncy n grd schl pjrtvs, nt sm PC d bt whch wrds r k t s nd whch rn't. Wrds dn't hv pnns.
s fr cllng mr thn 50% f th vtng ppltn "stpd"--tht's bt s sfl s cllng thm "rtrdd". t's chp sht.
k, y wr tryng t b fnny. S wr th gys frm th cr dlrshp. sng blck nd wht lngg s rlly pr wy t cnvnc ppl tht y'r rgmnt s th rght n. Bt gn, ths sn't frm md t ppl wh dsgr wth y..
Whn y sy smthng lk ths, t's n mr nlghtnng thn: chclt c crm s mch bttr thn vnll. t's nt clvr, t's ntllctlly lzy.
Weird. Apparently this guy hasn't realized that there are Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and non-denominational theists in America. On behalf of my fellow religiously active, politically secular Jews, I'd like to remind him of our existence.
LICENSE FARM: "fantastically disproportionate to the quality of the indiscretion" isn't really fair. I think I got carried away with how nice these words sounded together without more consideration for what they were saying. This is in part the danger of message boards, but I essentially agree with what you're saying.
And I realize Gorafalo is a comedian, but she's on an opinion show, and I think her use of the word "retard" is more than a speech tic. And I don't want to get too sidetracked here, but I do think her dependancy on this word makes her sound less articulate than she would probably like people to think of her as being.
JED@55:
Blog Commenting, by design, is an intellectually lazy excersize, a diversion.
OMG. someone is WRONG on the internet....Resisting that urge to correct is simply, useless, as I have proven by doing exactly what I criticize, thus overloading my irony circuit and pzzz..tt..!!))**&^^%$$$
Saw a bumper sticker once:
When the RAPTURE comes, can I have your car?
I was amazed to see my own little corner of the world on BoingBoing this morning (we're from Lancaster, a bit south of Mojave, but in the same geographic area known as the Antelope Valley).
My fiancee's response to Kieffe and Sons really poor advertising: "They've just now noticed?"
My own: "The Antelope Valley is one of the most God-Forsaken places on Earth - how people there insist in believing in him is completely beyond me."
Honestly though, Kieffe and Sons have never made an ad that bad before. They're always on the edge in an "Old man completely out of touch with reality" sorta way, but never this outright crazy before.
ROBOTON: Ok, this is hopefully my last one:
I wasn't saying that people should never make a casual remark on a blog or a message board, I was using this person's remark to illustrate an idea, but I maybe should have said something to the effect of--"it's fine to make this sort of remark but this is what I think of the quality of these kinds of remarks in general..." but you know, in the spirit of what you're saying about the casual nature of blogs and message boards--it's not an essay, it's an opinion or idea expressed in a particular moment.
I also don't think that there's anything inherently intellectually lazy about commenting on a message board--I think that when they're any fun at all, they get people to think and argue in a healthy way, and it's great that people disagree or find holes in my arguments--I'd like to think that that's part of the purpose of these things. It helps me to make better arguments and helps me to give more thought to my arguments.
Sitting down and shutting up (for at least an hour once a week) is exactly all that is required of 'faithful' Christians.
Oh the irony.
FOR ALL YOUR GODLY NEEDS - WE BELIEVE IN FORD SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO!
["Did you know that there are people in this country who want Ford out of schools, "Under Ford" out of the Pledge, and "In Ford We Trust" to be taken off our money?"]
"But did you know that 86% of Americans say they believe in Ford? Since we all know that 86 out of every 100 of us are Fordians, who believe in Ford, we at Keiffe & Sons Ford wonder why we don't tell the other 14% to sit down and shut up. I guess I just offended 14% of the people who are listening to this message. Well, if that is the case then I say that's tough, this is Fordidonia folks, it's called free speech. None of us at Keiffe & Sons Gods is afraid to speak out. Keiffe & Sons Gods on Sierra Highway in Mojave and Rosamond, if we don't see you today, by the grace of Ford, we'll be here tomorrow."
#57, jed alexander, i take it you are as bush supporter? tell me something,( and i know it's a bit off topic) what do you think of your boy now? has he done even 1 good thing while in office? BTW, i think J.G. is correct. even though my mother and sister both are 'retarded'.
MINTPHRESH: actually I voted for Nader in 2000, so I'm one of THOSE people. But that's, of course, another topic altogether.
At any rate: trust me, Bush aint my boy.
Thank you Boing Boing for leaving the door to the Argument Clinic unlocked so we could get our fix over the long holiday weekend. I don't know what we'd do without you.
hey, i love ralph! and i don't buy for a second that the fact that we voted for him lost the race for uncle al. the fix was in from the start. just ask jeb and diebold!
Edmond 50: Did you read this thread before posting? Look at my comment at 27, for example. We're well aware that this guy doesn't speak for the majority of Christians.
GreatFrito 60: Maybe it should change its name to the "Lama Sabachthani" valley.
Jed 61: If you value the discourse and give-and-take here, why is this post "hopefully" your last one? I for one hope you stay and discuss. You're not a troll, you've been more polite than I have (though I really do have trouble fathoming what would have made any reasonably intelligent and fundamentally goodhearted person vote for the WPE in 2004, dismissing them as "stupid" outright WAS, as you perceived, intended as humor), and disagreement is the lifeblood of healthy discussion.
MDHatter 62: That really contrasts sharply with what I hear in church every week (liberal church; they let Pagans sing in the choir). Not only is it not all that is required, they have to stand up and sing the hymns and respond to the psalms and do the Prayers of the People and so on...in fact they only really sit for the readings and the sermon, and total silence is only when they're sitting (including right after the choir sings, which I'm just getting used to after years and years). I know you're making a joke, but one with more truth in it would be funnier.
Xopher:
Because I gots to get off my lazy butt and get some work done! But it was fun.
@ Ross #66, not necessarily, I could be here on my pwn time
no, no, I'm sorry, this is ABUSE. Argument is two doors down.
Jed: Well, keep coming back then! Have a good day!
Another reason (as if I didn't need one)
to buy an imported car.
You know what they say, 'If you can afford a Ford, you can afford the Lord!'
The ad was run by a classic rock station, 93.5, "The Quake"! in Mojave: http://www.935thequake.com/showdj.asp?DJID=33014
...and here's the actual audio of the ad: http://www.mediafire.com/?g1f492lbruy
I'll see your Jesus and raise you a Glock.
A car dealership in the United States is offering a free handgun with every vehicle sold. Max Motors in Butler, Missouri, says sales have quadrupled since the start of the offer. Customers can choose between a gun or a $250 (£125) petrol card, but most so far have chosen the gun.
BBC article
Takuan@51: I take issue with any attempt to characterize BB as "lefty" or "rightist" etc. Not only is labeling lazy and an enemy of truth, I do not think this kind of thinking does justice to this forum of ideas.
Well, BB consistently posts thread that hold freedom of speech as more important than freedom of idiocy, freedom of everything as more important than "I've got to surrender all my rights to be safe", and freedom to tinker as more important than crazy copyright laws, DRM, surveilance, and so on.
I think there's enough consistency in the threads to say that BB does have a particular political flavor to it.
Course, some people hold freedom from being labeled as more important than freedom to have a normal discussion that includes labels.
At the risk of being cynical *and* terminally late to the party, may I point out that "over the top local ad picked up by blogs, generating complaints, and hitting the tag in the national media" is just the sort of strategy a no-budget small town business might use to drum up publicity and get folks from outside their usual market to hear about them?
While it's not QUITE true that there's no such thing as bad publicity, I'm willing to bet this has a more positive then negative impact on them.
Similar to the Missouri Ford dealership that recently got a bump into the national media for advertising the choice of either a free gas card or a free gun with every purchase. The owner was quoted as saying "Real Americans love their guns and go to church."
Here's the url:
http://www.max71.com/
(salute)(salute) "I relieve you!" "Acknowledged!" (salute)(salute).... rather like the Archchancellor's Keys - but with less snow and yelling.
you know how it is; heaths to blast, Souls to Eat,
ta!
I'd love to go in and ask if an atheist gets the same mileage as a Christian. I'm assuming Catholics get worse mileage than Protestants, what with all the guilt weighing them down and all.
I think Jesus would call these car dealers a bunch of "money changers" and whip them off the lot.
Damn, Antinous beat me by 2 minutes.
#79: That doesn't really place BoingBoing on the left-right axis. If I was forced at gunpoint by a customer of Max Motors to assign a political label to BoingBoing, I'd say it has a libertarian cast to it, but it's mostly centrist.
Libertarians, as best as I can tell, are best represented as a second axis on the political spectrum. I'm not sure quite what sits on the other side of mainstream from Libertarian though. My snarky side suggests "sheep" but that's an animal, not a political group.
no practical definition of freedom would be completely without the freedom to take the consequences.
This is the root of the problem. There are those who believe that freedom of religion means they get to practice their religion however they please without suffering any consequences. They feel they are privileged above all others.
Since you're so fond of role-reversal, were the tables turned and a conservative message board was discussing a car dealership that was willing to do business with everyone but Christians, do you honestly believe their discussion would be nearly as calm, pragmatic and light-hearted as this one has been?
Probably about as calm and light-hearted as this kerfuffle has turned out to be. If by calm you mean swinging from the rafters and ululating "Death to the Islamofascists!"
Did they cite their sources? No.
I mean, if their statistic of 86% is actually referring to a survey conducted at 100 churches in the southern US over the Easter Long Weekend in 2006 then they're not really making a solid argument are they? If their source is the 1984 US census they're not really making their argument current are they?
I did some research and I can't find any source that supports their claim of 86%. I have included the two closest sources that I could find.
The US Census Bureau provides all their data on religious affiliations (Which is an optional question. By law you are not required to answer). 2001 numbers suggest 159,506,000 Christian affiliated adult members of the US population out of 207,980,000 respondents to the optional question of religion. That's 76.69% of respondents, not 86% as claimed. 7,740,000 classified themselves as 'Other, non-christian' almost 0.4%. Out of 287,985,000 total adult population (2002 figures) means that 72.2% of the population agreed to answer the question of religion and also classified themselves as 'Christian'.
The ad specified 86% as the stat. The actual stat for 2001 was 72.2% So they're either grossly misinformed, using statistics from some other source (cite your source please!), or they are taking a very uneducated guess.
If their source was from an older census, then their numbers are in a very sharp decline.
Source: http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/population/religion.html
Looking at other sources, only 70.9% of respondents believe that Jesus is the son of god.
1) Jesus is a fictional character 17 (1.0%)
2) Jesus probably existed, but he was not special 56 (3.3%)
3) Jesus was an extraordinary person, but he was not a messenger of God 135 (8.0%)
4) Jesus was one of many messengers or prophets of God 207 (12.2%)
5) Jesus is the son of God 1198 (70.9%)
6) I have no opinion 77 (4.6%)
Source: http://www.thearda.com/quickstats/qs_52.asp
This dealership is only returning to its founder's roots. Henry Ford donated thousands of dollars to the Nazis and was awarded the highest medal a non-German could be awarded by Adolf Hitler, prior to WWII. He continued to manufacture jeeps and trucks for them during the war, profiting from both sides while Americans were rationing everything for the war effort. FDR knew but was forced to look the other way.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htmhttp://www.allfreeessays.com/student/Henry_FordPortrait_of_an_Anti-Semite.html
I am just surprised they didn't throw in something anti-semetic to complete their "christian" bigotry. And where are the anti-muslim Ford ads? If they want us to get deeper into war to sell more trucks, they'd better get cracking.
Garafalo should have said those who voted for bush were woefully misinformed and manipulated, but that doesn't sound nearly as funny. Ironically, bush was the first to execute a mentally challenged person.
Recently at an art opening, I was told I would sell more of my work if I did something "christian" or "patriotic." Ford are simply latching onto what Fox news have (re-)discovered: That wrapping things in the cross and the flag, and coddling to people's insecurites sells bigtime. They believe they have marginalized those of us who are outraged. Most of us are still driving SUVs, shopping at Wal-Mart and completely asleep at the wheel.
http://www.ford.com/our-values/diversity
"Throughout our history, we've always fostered an inclusive and diverse work environment."
Well, OK, there was that bit in the 1920s where Henry Ford republished the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as The International Jew, but that wasn't about hiring policy, so we can still say that "diversity" stuff with a straight face.
That was supposed to be two links:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/nov98/nazicars30.htm
http://www.allfreeessays.com/student/Henry_FordPortrait_of_an_Anti-Semite.html
...and there are many more supporting the fact that Ford supported the Nazis (Hitler kept a photo of Ford framed in his office.)
Jed, try reading this version with "Jew" as the target, rather than non-believer, with "Jesus" replacing God, and think about whether you consider it more, less or equally offensive.
Then think about whether any business would even consider making such a statement, even if they were in a 100% conservative Christian county, without fearing fatal repercussions for their business.
In my experience, well-meaning theists are, for the most part, disproportionately tolerant, even indulgent toward overt bigotry against atheists. They spend more time defending what they see as an attack on religion by those of us who dare to be offended, than they do condemning the anti-atheist bigotry.
And rarely do theists stand up and put their necks out to publicly reject, repudiate, let alone boycott or demonstrate alongside us against such sentiments.
But to those of us who are the targets of such hate on a regular basis, it doesn't hurt any less because it is still culturally acceptable.
I'm kinda torn here.
1) As a militant agnostic, who hates the unempathetic certainty of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris almost as much as that of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell... As someone who realizes that "science vs religion" is largely a false dichotomy... As someone who sees the separation between church and state as an essential part of a modern enlightened society (and who wonders why many religious people can't see this)... As a Unitarian Universalist... As someone who is more scared of the widening "us versus them" gulf created by religious extremists who say scary and untrue things about liberals and atheists and the ACLU, and by militant atheists who say scary and untrue things about religious people (well, they're true about SOME religious people), than I am [scared] of the scary things being said... I resent this ad because it widens the unnecessary and alienating and divisive "us versus them" gulf, making true understanding between religious people and non-religious people just a little bit harder.
2) As someone who thinks that naturalism (be it atheism, pantheism, or deism, which are all pretty much non-supernatural when it comes to the daily workings of the universe and the people in it) is a more honest, enlightened, and elegant kind of worldview... I'm glad to see an a-hole further dirtying the Christian brand. Anything that makes Christians a little ashamed to be Christian, that makes young people (and old people, possibly) think twice about whether they want to be a Christian, that makes non-Christians think that Christianity is not really as wise as it claims to be... is serving what I see as the advancement of spiritual enlightenment.
Yes, I realize these two things are somewhat opposed, in that I wish that religious people and non-religious people understood why the other side is not crazy, but I also don't mind it when religion shows its crazy side because to be honest I don't really like it that much personally.
In any case, the people who made the ad, and the people who aired it, certainly had the right to do so, and they will now face the consequences. If their area has enough conservative Christians, they might actually get more business. I would almost say that there's nothing we could or should actively do about it, except that (even in conservative areas) businesses can't really say "Whites Only" or "No Jews" anymore, and this is a good thing. So I'm actually a little confused about just how far the law ought to go to prevent bigotry. Something to think about. In any case, we as individuals probably should act to prevent bigotry, and writing Ford, the dealership, and the radio station, would probably be a good place to start. Just make sure your letter disapproves of bigotry, not of Christianity. Because if you say that they did this because they are Christian, then you too are a bigot.
Sometimes I want to try and start an naturalist-missionary service that goes door-to-door like Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses, not to convert people but to explain to them in a friendly and patient way (especially in conservative areas) why non-theism is valid, why society is not truly just until it stops systematically alienating non-believers, and how it is possible for non-theists to develop morals that are at least as good as the supposedly-Bible-based morals of Christians. (And maybe why ID is BS while we're at it). Anyone want to sign up and help me spread the bright word?
FOR ALL YOUR GODLY NEEDS - WE BELIEVE IN FORD SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO!
"You all remember, I suppose, that beautiful and inspired saying of Our Ford's: History is bunk."
"Cleanliness is next to fordliness."
"God in the safe and Ford on the shelves."
- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
Wasn't the Pledge of Allegiance created for a marketing campaign to sell flags?
Actually, Xeoron, it was originally written by Francis Bellamy, a Christian Socialist, and promoted through a popular children's magazine.
Militant Evangelical Unitarian Universalists? Yeah, I could go with that. Will there be coffee served in the basement though?
This guy (of the ad) is an asshole. I don't support him or his bullshit bigotry.
But on the other hand, I've met atheists that, when they get onto the subject of belief in god, are assholes to a similar degree.
It's almost as though the act of trying to tell people what they should believe makes you an asshole, regardless of what you are telling them. Why would it matter what someone else believes inside their own head? Unless someone else's beliefs start impacting my life, I have no reason to tell them they are wrong.
But yeah. The guy from the ad is not just an asshole, but a stupid asshole. It's kind of remarkable.
Also, it really doesn't surprise me that this is a radio ad. Radio advertising is by far the lowest form of human communication. Even the ones that aren't offensive for any particular reason, are horribly horribly offensive to me.