Microsoft: we listen to broadcasters, not customers
Danny sez, "A Microsoft spokesperson told CNet today that 'Microsoft included technologies in Windows based on rules set forth by the (Federal Communications Commission). As part of these regulations, Windows Media Center fully adheres to the flags used by broadcasters and content owners to determine how their content is distributed and consumed.' Do they really mean that they're obeying the broadcast flag that courts and Congress rejected as being executive overreach by the FCC? The ones they have no obligation to follow?"
This is about the defunct "Broadcast Flag," an illegal proposal to have the FCC regulate devices (PCs, set-top boxes, etc) so that they'll only include approved technologies that the entertainment industry likes. The Second Circuit ruled that the FCC couldn't make these rules. But Microsoft's devices are following the rules anyway, refusing to allow you to record your favorite TV shows with your Windows PC if the broadcaster has marked them as "no record." Link (Thanks, Danny!)
See also: Microsoft and NBC enforce the nonexistent Broadcast Flag, WTF?!
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I am no MS fan and a Mac user and multi-Tivo subscriber and I believe that Tivo follows the same broadcast flag programming. I know that I have had items that have been either not recorded or restrictions placed on items. But put the word Microsoft in the article instead of anyone else and it will raise the ire of any BB or /. reader to the point of frenzy.
It's painfully obvious at this point, and I implied it in the other thread anyway, but the weak link here is the content. A torrent of that same flagged show will play in media center just fine. What are they going to do? Sue you for a show you're already paying to get piped into your house? Not an ideal solution, I know, but the simplest and the most damaging (from MS and the broadcaster's point of view).
Ahaley, Tivo doesn't honor the broadcast flag -- which effects broadcast programming. They respond to a few other flags as part of their cable agreements.
The big deal about *broadcast* is that the spectrum (which belongs to the American public) is loaned for free to broadcasters, who, in return, are NOT ALLOWED to restrict the recording in this way.
Let's put the MS executives in the arena with the gladiators and let nature take its course. And by nature, I mean steroids and speed.
I guess I must be thinking of cable flags then, but still I see NBC as being just as, if not more, responsible. But becasue it's MS they're help as the ultimate evil. It's just a bias that I grow weary of.
Why not Robot Wars?
@5 Ahaley - Microsoft also has about 90% of the home computer market under their control, so their actions affect a fairly large number of people. Hence the heightened number of news items about their ability to screw things up.
Cory's point is a huge one, which not many people have been picking up on: as far as I can tell, at the current state of affairs, it is illegal for a broadcast television station to impede the recording of broadcast content -- no matter what the content is.
I'm cautiously glad this happened -- the uSoft Media PC customers are a large enough group that this has gotten the issue out into the open, and it's shown exactly what the result will be when the entertainment industry gets their way: nobody will be able to record anything, period. And the advertisers should be terrified of this, because it means they're viewing base is going to go down, despite whatever promises they got from the networks. And enough people do time shift now that it may be enough of a rallying point to get Congress to change their directions.
No, I'm not particularly hopeful about it... but I think that's more likely than it was before this happened.
Neither Microsoft nor any other consumer electronics manufacturer have a legal obligation to avoid enforcing broadcast flags either. Obviously they feel that there is a marketable value to utilizing (or at least including) the technology.
Disagree? Fine, stop using the device/software in question. Complain to the manufacturer if you wish. Don't act like this is any great surprise though that large corporations will act in collusion to effect through market share what they could not guarantee through lobbying.
Disagree? Fine, stop using the device/software in question. Complain to the manufacturer if you wish.
Uh, I'm pretty sure that people have more recourse to address this grievance beyond boycott. If boycotting solved every problem, then the FDA and FAA and several other consumer-centric acronyms are kind of unneccessary.
Me, personally, I don't want to have to google around before I go shopping to figure out which sausage-maker I need to boycott just to avoid getting road-kill in my snausages.
Next person who makes the "boycott" argument gets shipped to Darfur and they can use their powers of boycott to put an end to the atrocities there.
EFF and CNet got it wrong. The American Gladiators / Medium issues were incorrectly set CGMS-A and/or SCTE Line 21 flags, not the broadcast flag. Which is a misuse of CGMS (it's supposed to be used by DVD, VHS, and pay TV)
From CNet: The "rules," in which the spokeswoman is apparently referring to...
Uh-oh. "apparently" is a weasel word. In other words, CNet didn't bother to fact check.
This is more evidence pointing out the fact you never 'OWN' something from Microsoft, and should be pointed out to everyone, Microsoft isn't your friend, & never will be your friend. You don't have to good everyone to figure out which one is the best one to get, but to expect that maybe this time MS is playing Mr Nice is just again asking for problems. When you can 'OWN' your hardware, and your Software, that is the only time will you be free of this crap.
if you don't ever OWN something from Microsoft then there is no problem with not paying for it
Keep locking down the legitimate ways I can get to my data, and I'll keep finding illegitimate ways of getting it. The bottom line is this: I'll watch the show if I want to, whether it's by downloading the torrent or by recording it off cable. If I record it off cable, at least the option is there to watch the commercials that the media buyers paid so much to inject. Good torrents don't have commercials.
@11
A distinction without a difference.
@Weightedcompanioncube
We're still testing to see whether it's either the BF proper, or some other weirdness in the ATSC stream. What CNet says is true, though: if Microsoft start talking about FCC regulations in the context that they asked for the quote, they're explicitly pointing to the BF.
"Apparently" isn't a weasel word in this sense: if Microsoft says they're obeying "flags" in FCC regulations, and that happened over over-the-air digital TV, then you *have* to assume they're talking about the BF. There's no FCC regulation otherwise specifying flags over ATSC. That's why CNet said "apparently", and I said "astounding" about this statement: it's a bizarre confession to make. If anyone is jumping the gun, it's Microsoft: they really need to give a better explanation than "oh, we're just following FCC regs", because that's leading them into an even worse quagmire than they were already in.
We're continuing to continue to try to emulate what users have seen (we haven't been able to simulate it yet). CGMS-A or CableCard controls we ruled out when it was clear this was OTA HDTV. Faking the broadcast flag in a feed has been nonconclusive (we can't currently trigger behavior in Vista, but that may just mean we're not trying hard enough: we don't have known BF-obeying hardware that takes our datastreams to compare it with.). CGMS-A in a SCTE 21 payload is bizarre (that's not what CGMS is for, and obeying it is not what the SCTE spec says you should do with the data -- it's meant for recreating NTSCish outputs), but we're already giving it a go. I'll update you via DeepLinks when we have a result.
I'm keeping my VCR.
In theory, I'm outraged.
But when I think about it for a little while, I realize that I'm angry about giant corporate conglomerates dicking me out of... American Gladiator?
I'd rather watch, for example, the Tunstallator, which your Large Corporate Media doesn't give a shit about.
Actually, I never called for anyone to "boycott" anything. I merely stated that continuing to use products that do not function as you intend them (not due to a defect, but due to a difference between the design and what you require from the device/software), and being surprised and dismayed that known less-than-consumer-friendly corporations are actively collaborating to make it so, all while gladly taking your money, is rather inane.
You're welcome to try—I would suggest wearing some body armour for the attempt.what are the other recourses that will be more effective than ceasing to use the product in question and declining to contribute to the revenue stream that allows it to continue?
As far as I can tell, violence, economic sanction, threat of violence and threat of economic sanction are the only things that ever sway governments and corporations.
Danny - Take a look at how Media Center handles Line 21 content. It comes out of NTSC and ATSC the same, and the same decrypt/tag filters are used on both.
It really is a bug, not a feature, at least when it's used on (or obeyed) with OTA. However, Media Center doesn't know for sure that the CGMS is coming from OTA vs. a direct video input.
I just saw this on IMDB. No other info.
NBC has admitted that it made an "inadvertent error" when it blocked users of Windows Media Center software from recording episodes of American Gladiators and Medium last Monday. Users attempting to record the programs were informed that NBC had "prohibited recording of this program." In an interview with CNET News.com, an NBC spokeswoman said that the network had "addressed the problem." She did not disclose how the problem occurred to begin with.