Did Gnarls Barkley's video producers "swipe" a photographer's style?
Clayton Cubitt, whose photography I've blogged about a bunch of times here on BoingBoing, writes...
“Lagos Calling”, (above right) mixing African tribal style with working class British skinhead punk style. My good friend and constant collaborator, René Garza, and I had this idea about five years ago, and just finally got around to doing it last year. It felt good to get it out of our heads.But then, later, Clayton updates his post:I don’t know when the idea for the Gnarls Barkley video “Going On” (above left) was hatched, or shot, but it’s just coming out now and bears a striking resemblance to our inspiration. I think this is a lovely happenstance, and it’s happened to me before.
I’m a firm believer in artistic “multiples”, as Malcolm Gladwell writes about scientific discovery in The New Yorker...
It looks like I spoke too soon. Turns out the production people for the Gnarls Barkley video were taking their inspiration from our shoot after all, and even contacted my stylist Rene’ in April to ask him where he had sourced the beaded African accessories. They didn’t bother hiring him for the job though, or crediting either of us for the advance “art direction.” You’re welcome anyway, Gnarls! Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.Link, includes text of an email from the producer:
“Hey there Rene,I got your name from [redacted] We are producing a video for Gnarls Barkley and found out that you were the stylist on the shoot with the skinhead look with african/beaded accessories. For the video we are trying to hunt down some accessories, like beaded belts, suspenders, chokers and thought you might help point me in that direction.
Any advice?
Thanks,
[redacted]
Executive ProducerRevolver Film Company”.
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But didn't you steal it from the Nigerians first?
Why do I have a sudden hankering for cheese?
He should go to the Gnarls people with a list of demands, written on the palm of his hand.
Good artists copy, great artists steal.
Whoops.
So...yesterday BoingBoing posts on how the director envisioned the entire thing in her head after listening to the track, then went to Jamaica to film it...and today we're told the imagery was stolen from another artist. One of these stories can't be true.
I'll have to take note next time someone asks me where I got my cool Columbian shoes, and accuse them of copying me when only slightly similar shoes show up in their videos.
wldn't flttr yrslf wth th thght tht th drctr fr th vd s stlng frm yr phtgrphs.
Wait, who is claiming IP on black men wearing beaded neck pieces? It was truly a brilliant Idea. I can't believe that no one had ever do it before. And that color combination, who would have thought of that in Jamaica? I need to know because if I ever buy my son a red, gold, black, and green medallion, I need to know whom to give proper attribution credit.
Uh oh! don't tell the other thread :)
Feelings will be hurt!
OMFG. Artists need to reconfigure their ideas of "originality" and who inspired whom. Black rudeboys and sharps have been mixing prints and jewelry from the Motherland with brit/american punk gear for decades now. Hell, a large percentage of the original Brit rudeboys had African and Island-born parently. This is not new, this was not based off of some photographers' idea.
Punk was first, before it became just another fashion trend, WAS politically rooted and ancestral pride (all ancestries) has often been visibly incorporated in an individual punk's style. That's like saying Vivienne Westwood "invented" punk fashion because of her incorporation of streetstyles in her collections.
Afropunks everywhere would roll their eyes at the entire concept of someone thinking they invented this with a stylist, lights, and a camera.
Gnarls & Mouse aren't completely foreign from this style, they both spent time in the scene in their youths. If you went to a poetry slam in ATL anytime in the mid 90's you would have seen this style hashed and rehashed many times over. The photographer did a great job of focusing on just this style and the photographic series has been popular among online afropunks since it came out. But if someone sees a skirt in a magazine and inquires where its from because it fits their own style, that's not theft.
No, it's not the photographer's work. It is probably inspired by the photo, but by no means was it "swiped." I think "imitation" would be incorrect as well since I've seen photos from Africa where traditional jewelry was being worn at the same time as western clothing. Though I can not recall what specific kind of neckwear it was and how it resembled the ones in the vid and photo. I'd give you a link and country but I can not remember where I saw this.
It is interesting that Clayton Cubitt would attempt to take credit for something like this as if there were no real precedent. Especially trying to bring in the idea of 'artistic “multiples”'. The way he puts it seems as if he's trying to take more credit than he is due for it.
i can clearly see the influence. it's not just blacks and beads, it's the whole rude boy punk combo. but music video and commercial directors do this all the time. they call it influences, references, and inspiration. there are other visual threads in the video as well as that one.
what were the influences and references in the original fashion shoot ?
no. who's ginning this contravisty up?
oh and I've a copyright on the new word contravisty - so remember me in your royalty payments from here on out world!
Hmmmmm. . . .
Well, I think it comes down to what he said here: "It looks like I spoke too soon. Turns out the production people for the Gnarls Barkley video were taking their inspiration from our shoot after all, and even contacted my stylist Rene’ in April to ask him where he had sourced the beaded African accessories."
I don't think Mr. Cubitt is trying to say he reinvented the wheel as far as the styling of the models in his shots is concerned, but when someone goes far enough to bite your style that they actually consult with the stylist used in the earlier shoot. . . well. . . they could make some sort acknowledgement.
So let me get this straight...
When half of Gnarls (DJ Danger Mouse) borrows from the Beatles to produce an album, everyone changes their site to grey to show their solidarity.
When Gnarls borrows an nrgnl idea from a friend of BB, it's "swiped."
s t jst m r ds ths sm lttl dplcts?
I'm with all a y'all who says this is silly. I spent many months in East Africa, and I grew familiar with black men wearing beads. I say, to Clayton Cubitt, are you kidding me?
Is it just me or does this seem a little duplicitous?
duplicitous - marked by deliberate deceptiveness, especially by pretending one set of feelings and acting under the influence of another.
That would be a rather harsh accusation to hurl, eh?
Can someone more punk than I enlighten me as to how that picture is "working class British skinhead punk style"? I don't see it.
I'd like to lay a public wager that the style in question actually did exist in some third-tier Nigerian city (the local Wolverhampton analog). I imagine Cubitt came to it quite honestly by parallel evolution.
I take it as an article of faith that Nigeria is the submerged portion of the world's cultural iceberg.
Wow, that's kind of ridiculous to be upset. Music videos are notorious for this. When videos were first becoming popular in the 80s you could take any of the interesting ones and link it back to avant garde films of the 50s. Usually scene-for-scene remakes, with the singer inserted. Without attribution.
You know what? I like you, Fritz Bogott. Mostly because of your name. But also partly because I'm smashed. But also partly because you said that about Nigeria being the submerged portion of the world's cultural iceberg.
Also, I thought those sirens were part of my blaring music, but they continue despite the song change, so I guess Montana is more crime-prone than any of us thought, right?
finally, i believe in parallel evolution.
thank you, and good night.
On the one hand, good on Clayton for being happy at being imitated. On the other hand, bad on Clayton for even bringing it up. OMFG, Blade Runner was a noir near-future, so more noir near-future films being produced is something to comment about?
If we didn't draw inspiration from others, we wouldn't be human. This insane desire to carve out intellectual property is driving the human race nuts.
It's inspiration, not swiping, there's really no need to attribute it. What, I got "African jewelry on Jamaican men wearing modernistic clothing with tight 'dos" from this fellow here? I did a moon mask the other day. Painted one, I mean. Should I go find the original Venetian and use his name for the contrast of blue and silver, the crescent moon on a face mask?
If the original art was body paint, perhaps, and not in a simple general tribal but a specific original piece, and the music video has used that exact pattern of body paint when it is not a general concept, then there'd be an issue. But there's not.
The video was great, methinks. And the song is too.
I think really the issue here is more on a professional level. If the styles are already around anyway, then stylists using them is just a part of the business. The point Clayton makes is more about, "hey we hooked you up, so hook us up." When he said he and René had the idea to do this they probably meant they had the idea of using and/or combining the styles. I don't quite know what people are getting so worked up about otherwise. The styles are already out there.
I guess I'm just a philistine, sorry, but I don't see a whole lot of similarity between the two photos. One guy is wearing a skinny necklace, the other one has a big wide one. One guy has his arms outstretched, the other hanging down by his sides. They have two different attitudes. Their hair is different. Please tell me what I'm missing. Please.
One is a still from the video. The similarity is in the attire; Cubitt says that the video took his style of a necklace of that sort juxtaposed against modern clothing. Indeed, they did ask where to get the jewelry.
Asking for the name of your caterer and not inviting you to the party is not evil, but a little crass. They might have given a thanks in the credits.
Thats not 'swiping'. Directors on films, ad shoots, etc often will talk to thier art directors in images and with atmospherics to give a complete visual sense. Its what gets thrown into the subconcious that gets recreated into a new something something that generates new interesting work.
You're right to be flattered. I think if you want to get hired by the director for the next video though, you need to just meet up with him/her and chat with about all those ideas you're working on. Thats the talk that gets people hired.
Clayton - they have obviously nicked your idea - which was pretty cool. Unfortunately they have made a pretty poor knock off video version. Your pictures are great and much better than the video. Why their video fails, is its lack of attention to detail. No skinhead would be seen dead wearing bracers like those in the video, they are way to wide. However your pictures get the feel of skinhead and suedhead fashion and mix it successfuly with funky Lagos. For fashion subcultures attention to detail is everything ... not just any polo shirt but a Fred Perry ...not just any old pair of Dr Martins but ox blood lace ups...
Churches shoes before Docs for the purist,Jazza...
Am I the only one seeing a problem with this?
"The imagery comes out of her head, partly inspired by a trip we made to Africa, partly inspired by Jamaican dance hall glory."
"Hey there Rene,
I got your name from [redacted]
We are producing a video for Gnarls Barkley and found out that you were the
stylist on the shoot with the skinhead look with african/beaded accessories.
For the video we are trying to hunt down some accessories, like beaded
belts, suspenders, chokers and thought you might help point me in that
direction.
Any advice?"
So, not exactly as original as it was made to sound originally, but as Wendy pointed out in her comment on the first post, her brother did exagerate a little :o)
The image on the right, especially with the wrinkled sheet background, reminds me of a famous Irving Penn style.
http://www.masters-of-fine-art-photography.com/02/artphotogallery/photographers/irving_penn_10.html
Creativity, whether intellectual or artistic, is always based on "prior art," often being quantum steps (the smallest possible increments) from the existing milieu. That's the outrageous aspect of much of "intellectual property" ownership. It's one thing to claim some sort of superiority but quite another to claim ownership over all further quantum steps.
pepsi_max2k - You can have all kinds of imagery in you head without knowing where to buy the things you need to bring it to reality. Her stylist may have asked several people where they sourced African beads before they found this one.
Having had my own artwork ripped off and sold by a more famous artist in the past I feel Mr. Cubitt's pain, but complaining about it in an accusatory manner on an extremely public forum like Boing Boing is probably the worst possible idea.
#30 has the right idea.
Instead of throwing an ultimately futile internet hissy fit (Todd Goldman's continued success is proof enough of this) try to use this as a jumping-off point to being being a fashion consultant for music videos, or just keep your work and sources closer to your chest. It's unfortunate that artists have to do this, but given the widespread plagiarism in the modern art world the next time someone calls asking for advice make sure you know what they want it for before you give it.
Did half of you not read the post? They called to ask for advice and then didn't bother to say thanks. Nobody is being accused of theft of intellectual property, just being rude.
Hi all, thanks for your thoughtful interest.
First off, please read the entirety of my own post (not just what's been excerpted here), and view my work and the video styling that's jumped off from it, I think you'll see the connections are direct and clear.
But to reiterate in this forum, if nobody bothers to read my original post: I think the video is wonderful. When it was shown to me by people who follow my work I immediately assumed we just had a visual kinship, and applauded the similarities.
From my post:
I was then made aware that it wasn't just an accidental meme we had both picked up on, but that my work was one of the jumping-off points for the video styling itself, as indicated by the production company's email.
Again, from my post:
And that really is it. I'm not claiming we invented rude boy, skinhead, or suedehead style, although to the best of my knowledge we were the first to remix it in this manner. And I don't expect a reference credit roll in an ephemeral music video. And I'm well aware of the long tradition of cultural remixing in both fashion photography and music video, as I myself stated at the outset. And lastly, I never claimed "copyright infringement" or "IP rights" or anything else as ridiculous.
I simply noted the relationship, griped that they hadn't hired my genius stylist despite lifting his style, and moved on to the next project.
Which, if I'm lucky, you may or may not see remixed in a music video in the near future. :)
-Clayton Cubitt
I'm glad Clayton posted here to clarify because this read as a huge "who really gives a fuck, stop whining" story. Thanks for the clarification (yes, I'm one of the ones who didn't bother to click the link since it was heavily quoted). I agree that the only legitimate gripe is that they didn't just hire the original stylist.
I'm very grateful to him for stopping by.
Do I need to list everyone in this thread who popped off without checking out the link to Clay Cubitt's original post, or can they feel embarrassed without my help?
Clayton, well met.
I did read the link. However, I buy art for a living. If someone asks me for the name of an artist I used a few years ago, I offer up the info without expecting a job out of it. I don't even expect any credit for the find. I don't see how this is different.
clarification appreciated, but, uh, i'm still not buying any of this.
we have, among other things, an eleven-year-old janet jackson video that demonstrates the aesthetic of both the "original" photo shoot and the subsequent video pretty completely. are she or mark romanek (the director) calling foul?
a video director had an idea for a shoot; someone involved in the production contacted a stylist for a fashion spread about finding some accessories. the original stylist wasn't hired because the project had a stylist already. like, maybe add homeboy to the christmas card list, but beyond that i don't see that professional courtesy requires much more.
can they feel embarrassed without my help?
That's a rather existential question.
Antinous: by my lights, it's a practical question. In this situation, it's preceded by other questions:
"(1.) If I have neither relevant knowledge of nor experience in nor a demonstrable longstanding interest in this field, does responding to the point by saying 'I don't see it' mean I'm in an unassailable position, and am free to badmouth and/or poke fun at all concerned? (2.) Do I believe my eligibility to be granted this license is affected by my being the dozenth person to adopt the aforementioned rhetorical stance, rather than the first or second? (3.) If the person whose words, actions, professional judgement, and ethics are being discussed turns up to clarify the issues, and cites information I could easily have had if I'd clicked on the link marked 'link' at the end of the entry, do I think that saying 'I don't see it' still puts me in an unassailable position, or am I to any measurable extent embarrassed by my previous assumptions?"
If the answers are "yes", "no", and "no", they may need my help. It never hurts to ask.
Steven,
I just noticed (after watching that vid you linked) that there is a massive similarity between the melody of the verses in Janet's song (eg. from around 0.33) and the melody of Des'ree's "Feel So High". I never noticed how similar they are..
..OK, I just did a quick comparison mix, and they are sooo close in tempo, and are both in tune!
Here's a very quick-and-messy edit I did, on you tube.
Now if someone can find out who Des'ree stole her earrings from, we can get to the bottom of this whole originality issue.
Whoa, the sync is a bit eff'ed up, but you can see the point..
˙ɹɐǝʎ ʇsɐן sıɥʇ pǝɹǝʌoɔ ʎɹoɔ pǝɔıʇou ʇsnɾ ı 'dɐɹɔ
˙˙ʇıɥs ɹıǝɥʇ dıןɟ ʇsnɾ pןnoɔ ǝʍ 'ǝןdoǝd ƃuıןןǝʍoʌɯǝsıp ɟo pɐǝʇsuı ǝqʎɐɯ
'ƃuıʞuıɥʇ sɐʍ ı os
..meant to put that in the ModPolicy thread.. sorry.
The lack of reading comprehension and professional ethics displayed in this thread is hilarious.
Clayton -- great photo shoot, great styling from Rene. Wendy -- great video.
Update on Des'ree vs Janet Jackson, above..
Someone commented on the video I put up, that Des'ree in fact sued Jackson for copying her track, and all subsequent releases of "got til it's gone" have credited Des'ree as co-writer.
Here's the wiki.