Graph of solar radiation in the US (Southwest is best)
Mikey Sklar and Wendy Tremaine moved to Truth or Consequences, New Mexico a couple of years ago and have been "recklessly experimenting" with various systems for living off the grid. They've been powering their house with photovoltaic cells, and this graph Mikey found makes it clear that they've moved to the right place.
Link (Canada's Discovery Channel profiled Mikey a couple of months ago. Here's the YouTube.)Today my PV solar panels must have been working extra hard. They produced 14.7kWhrs that is the absolute maximum they are supposed to be able to produce in my region based on the average latitude angle. When I scoped out the system I had been thinking about a 5 hour peak sunlight day. We are really much more like 7.2 peak hours of sunlight a day (this time of year). This chart might help. You can see what a total waste it is to buy and install PV solar panels anywhere outside of the southwest.
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"off the grid" is great & all, but the water situation in the American Southwest is going to be much more acute than in other areas of the country within the next several decades. So there's a downside to living there also.
I definitely won't be moving to AZ or NM *anytime*
Solar "farms" in the Southwest, if they could route the generated electricity out of the region to more hospitable climes, might be a good idea, though.
Trying to live there with current population densities and projected dwindling water supplies--bad idea.
Yes, there's a lot of sunlight in AZ. But that doesn't mean that PV is "a total waste" elsewhere. PV can be cost-effective even in cloudy, high-latitude places like -- well, like Germany! 1200 kWh/m2 average insolation, and they're the PV leader in Europe.
Just because PV panels are more effecient in the Southwest doesn't make them a waste elsewhere. There is a huge benefit from installation of PV panels even in areas like the Northwest Coast where it is cloudy most of the year.
Part of the benefit is the electricity produced, which allows more individuals and families to live off the grid and even produce electricity for their neighbors, and the other part is that the expanded private purchase and use of PV panels leads to public awareness, innovation, and lower prices, all of which will lead to the increased benefits of the technology.
Anyplace in red on that map is one I'll be avoiding. I burn like a lobster, and bright light hurts my eyes. Not surprisingly, I grew up in the light tan places.
I think 'a total waste' is sending the wrong message. People use solar power for all sorts of applications, not just to power their homes. Clarification would be good. Here in Munich, solar panels are absolutely everywhere, to second Ted's comments. The climate is far from what its like in the SW, obviously. Discouraging people outside the southwest, is a serious disservice to the movement.
"You can see what a total waste it is to buy and install PV solar panels anywhere outside of the southwest."
No, I'm afraid I can't. The government should be paying people to put the damned things on their roofs. It may not let you live "off the grid" in most places, but it would certainly cause a significant reduction in any city's power needs.
that is why I like buying solar panels from CT, they are cheap and easy to use. They even now sell wind generators now.
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Really too bad for that last sentence (re: "waste"). I work in the renewable energy sector and if you ask anyone doing similar, you'd learn in short order that the benefits of procuring a solar system are multi-dimensional, from strong/successful ROI from an install ANYwhere in the US, to prevention of larger coal burning power stations being built on a local level, to strengthening the PV manufacturing market to lower PV technology production costs, making it (continually) cheaper and more accessible to more people/business nationwide. You just successfully reinforced one of the most common misconceptions about solar: its inaccessibility (now via boing boing also). Well done.
There's plenty of groundwater in many parts of the Southwestern US, if we got rid of lawns and golf courses and treated wastewater efficiently. Anyone thinking about solar panels shouldn't have that much trouble thinking about a gray water system for xeriscape, composting toilets and generally minimizing water usage. San Francisco has extremely strict water regulations. The desert has virtually none. God, this stillsuit is itchy.
wizard.
#9 that reminds me of the Daily Show's Aasif Mandvi and his great stillsuit appearance (I love telling that bit as a story) after attending Live Earth (starts around 25secs)
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=90863&title=live-earth
After the Southwest's aquifers dry up, then no one will mind if we pave it with solar panels.
THANK YOU! My wife is trying to talk me into wasting our precious money on solar panels in the Northeastern US, of all places. Ay carumba!
You and they say "off the grid" like it's a good thing. Off the grid is what you do when you live so far from the grid you can't connect, and living out there with power is more important to you than being green -- not what you do when you're in a town.
Why? Because off-grid solar systems use giant banks of batteries. And the properties of these batteries mean you try to keep them charged up. But as soon as they get mostly charged, most of your solar output is being thrown away because the batteries can't take it. Unless you have something that can store all your extra power output (pump water sometimes works) off-grid solar is fake green.
Being grid tied means your extra power goes into the grid to offset fuel-burning generators and reduce the fuel burned. Anything less is fake green. People think "grid power is dirty" and thus they should not connect to it. That's just plain wrong.
Where I am, you can't unhook yourself if you're in a utility district, as far as I know. You feed power into the grid. But...usually you can only go to $0 owed. They won't pay you for electricity generated beyond your usage. Anyone live anywhere where they will pay you?
My sister and her husband lived off the grid for many years; their electricity was provided by a little Pelton Wheel on a creek in the Trinity Alps. I recall affectionately purchasing them a chrome-plated alternator for a wedding gift... I found it an incredibly romantic, sentimental gesture on my part. Anyhow, not everything "off the grid" is solar powered.
Without singling out the Southwest, water conservation in desert regions would be aided by abandoning the antiquated (and steampunky - sorry couldn't resist) notion of a lawn in favor of indigenous plants. Beautiful succulents, natural grasses... A little rock garden... Doesn't require a drop of imported water. Only potential drawback may be if your child falls off his/her bike and into a prickly pear.
That would leave only the minor issues of swimming pools in every back yard, long showers, using a gushing water hose as a rake substitute, and... oh never mind. I'm going to go stew and watch Chinatown a few times.
@#15 Antinious, there are several cities (countys?) where utilities are required to pay you the wholesale (not retail) rate for any power you put back into the grid. So it's something, if it's not a money machine. I can't think of any places where that's the law, but I know there are a few, and they're increasing.
Leaving & Antinous,
I believe in the UK you get paid to export to the grid, above £0.
Here is the first link I found, it's about scotlland.. (and written in a pretty difficult style)
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Best-UK-Solar-Export-Tariff.htm
A huge, carefully thought-out solar power initiative has already been planned out for implementation in the Southwest:
http://thatsprettylame.blogspot.com/2008/01/massive-solar-initiative-proposed.html
The article has a summary of the main points of the plan, including how many (~300) coal-fired power plants the resulting PV array would displace.
Getting paid for it would be a pretty big incentive. Saving money is great, but it doesn't have the same psychological impact as getting a check in the mail.
Feed-in tariffs. In Germany and some other European countries, PV owners are paid a premium rate for selling power back to the grid. In Germany I think the FIT is 3x the retail price.
Other incentives include rebates for installing PV arrays. In Australia, for example, a homeowner can claim up to A$8000 against the cost of installing a PV array, subject to certain conditions e.g. primary place of residence, certified installer, array to remain installed for a minimum of five years.
We're looking at the wrong map. The map posted here is for concentrating solar technology, systems that use mirrors or lenses to focus the rays of light directly from the sun.
If we are going to talk about flat-plate PV panels, which use the direct light and scattered light as well, we need to consider this map:
http://www.nrel.gov/gis/images/us_pv_annual_may2004.jpg
Concentrating systems work incredibly well in the US southwest (some have called it the Saudi Arabia of solar energy) and less well elsewhere in the country. PV systems' performance is much more geographically uniform.
I came here to make a comment about hoping they come up with a way to turn the electricity into water soon, but I see the very first post in the thread has already beaten me to the same point.
I'll have to content myself with pondering how well the photovoltaic system will offset the power needed by the air conditioners in the desert wastelands of the US Southwest...