Camera shop offers customer bribe to remove bad Amazon review
BB pal and FM COO Jason Weisberger felt that the fancy camera he ordered from Cameta Camera, via Amazon, was poorly packed for shipping. He called the company to complain and they were rude to him. So he posted a bad review of the shop on Amazon. The next day, Cameta Camera offered him $75 to take down his review. Jason has the details over at Dethroner. From the email he received from Cameta Camera:
We are ready to issue you a credit for $75.00 back to your Amazon account (which is the original freight paid). Our’ only concern is that in the past we have made an accommodation for a customer but they have left us negative feedback anyway. If you would be willing to remove your negative feedback remark to our account (and then email me to let me know that it has been done) I will issue the credit right away. We pride ourselves on good customer service and we are willing to work with you.Link
If you do decide to remove the feedback left in exchange for the refund please follow the instructions below.
I wonder how much they'd pay for a good review!
Questionable, at best. As I understand it, they're offering him a bribe. Might as well create a market site for positive feedback, where online retailers can bid for customers' positive feedback. Or just display what they're paying for positive feedback next to the merchandise's price.
If they're holding money they owe the guy on the condition that he remove the negative, it's bullshit.
--Mike
Paid reviews, I should think, would violate the Amazon TOS.
Retracting an honest but negative review in explicit exchange of cash, would, IMO, constituted a paid review. Adding an addendum explaining the 75$ payment and satisfaction, thereof (if any), would not.
They are sooooo busted.
@Michael A. Banks: It is a bribe and I will not take it. They do not "owe" me anything, what I ordered was delivered -- however my review is accurate to my experience. Offering me a refund ONLY if I remove the review strikes me as crooked.
Obviously, as long as reviewing spaces are supported by industry, negative commenting must not only be tolerated, but celebrated -- it's part of what keeps the system honest, else only the highest bidders can afford the best ratings. But I wonder how many people out there would be willing to sell their integrity for $75? Bet it's more than we'd like to think.
But rectifying poor commercial behavior should be free. This isn't a bribe. It's something much, much worse: good service ONLY to those who are willing to pay extra.
I see sinister parallels with, among other things, the concept of net neutrality here. Can you say "service neutrality"?
Doesn't 'cash for feedback' boot them off Amazon for all eternity?
Looks like I just found a new job [maniacle cackle]
I once bought a cheap pair of Rayban knock-offs from Amazon. The only reason I picked them over any other crappy pair in the same price range (they all looked the same) was because there were all these rave reviews about how they were so well made, high quality, made the person wearing them feel cool, etc.
Then when they arrived, there was a note in the package that said if I wrote a good review on Amazon, they would send me a coupon for their products. I felt totally duped, even though I knew I was just buying crappy knock-offs to begin with.
I agree with the commenter on dethroner that this negative feedback ransom thing has got to stop. I've seen too many "If you give us negative feedback we'll give you negative feedback" things on eBay that just turn me off to the whole online marketplace/auction thing.
Maybe all feedback should be hidden until both sides have submitted?
I have bought from this company in the past and always had very courteous and prompt service. That said, I think calling it bribing is exaggerated. I mean, they admit having screwed up at some point with the customer but are offering to fix their mistake. In good faith, the customer shouldn't bash them with a negative review since the company is offering to fix whatever he's complaining for, right?
Given how a single negative review can obliterate thousands of positive reviews, I understand Cameta's position here.
If his $5K camera had been damaged during shipping, I believe the company would have offered an equally satisfying solution - those are the risks when buying fragile technology online rather than in a real shop (which would compensate its pricing with human tech support, especially with a pro camera).
Ths gy s whnr, nthng ls.
The whole slew of incestuous electronics retailers out of Brooklyn (cameta, abes of Maine, Wall St photo)leave a lot to be desired. They sell the electronics at a great price, but require you to call in to "verify" the purchase, and they try to upsell you. If you resist the product is suddenly "out of stock" and your order is cancelled.
Caveat empor!
Heres pics of their storefronts.
http://donwiss.com/pictures/BrooklynStores/
In good faith, the customer shouldn't bash them with a negative review since the company is offering to fix whatever he's complaining for, right?
Wrong. Re (again) view (look). Another look at what happened. He described his experience. That's all. If I read a review, I want to know what happened, not a revised picture of what happened after money changed hands. Most companies prefer to pay off problems rather than provide adequate service in the first place, on the assumption that most customers are too meek or lazy to do anything. Posting a negative review when you're treated like crap is a public service to other potential customers. He owes the camera store nothing.
This buyer guy's whole attitude seems sort of pissy, IMO. The camera store tried to make things right, and he's raising even more of a stink because of it. Seems pretty petty to me. What gives? Also, in his own words he says of the camera store's packing "they basically tossed the D3’s box from Nikon loose in a larger box and sent it along". What does "basically" mean. DID they, or DIDN'T they? Was there NO packing material whatsoever? Or just not as much as one would reasonably expect for $75? I dunno: all in all, the camera store employee/shipper doesn't seem to be the only party in this transaction that's an a**hole...
@Antinuous
Allow me to disagree here. First of all, given the tone of the plaintiff it can be assumed he wasn't exactly courteous upon formulating his complaint about the packaging. Even if Cameta's employee was rude (which has yet to be proven), they are offering to *fix* their mistake to make it right, no matter what.
Most companies wouldn't even consider doing this given the goods, after all, arrived in good working condition (which is the case), so I think writing a negative review for what essentially is about some wrinkled corners on a cardboard box is overkill. In the end, the guy got his camera for a discount AND didn't have to pay for the shipping. What more does he want, FFS?
Given the situation, I think the company is offering a fair deal here, not a bribe. If the guy wanted to be sure he had a spotless box, he should have bought it from a real store, period.
@Yannish
Whilst I agree most of Brooklyn's camera outlets are really bad, I couldn't find Cameta in your list. Also, B&H is in your list but they are one of the most respected companies in the camera business. What's your point?
@#10 I agree whole heartedly that negative for negative thing on eBay ratings is unbelievably obnoxious. I've had it pulled on me a few times by bad sellers and have left negative feedback anyway. I figure that by kowtowing to those sorts of people just adds to the bad rep that eBay is starting to pick up. I still like the idea of eBay but use it very little because of these sorts of problems.
"First of all, given the tone of the plaintiff it can be assumed"
Its amazing what conclusions you can reach if you precede any jump of logic with "It can be assumed"
A few points:
Reputation is a type of currency and there are always people who will instinctively use it for leverage (not referring to the present case.)
I buy a ton of stuff online from all over the world. Packing standards vary enormously and you wouldn't believe how costly and delicate items are sometimes treated, or how well the lowliest interconnect cable can be packed by someone who cares. You can kind of tell when the person packing it had no idea what the item was.
I sell a lot of delicate electronics on eBay and ship all over the world. I pack the living daylights out of everything but I'm always negotiating with 1 or 2 buyers at a time over damage. Always.
EBay announced a policy change which eliminated negative reviews of buyers by sellers. As a seller, if a buyer doesn't deal in good faith all I can do is grit my teeth. The outcry over this was huge and I don't know if it will go into effect. I hope I never have to find out.
i actually don't have a big problem with this stuff, as long as there's full disclosure. i.e.: "i received the camera but it was poorly packed and got scratched during shipping. i contacted the seller and they offered me $75. that makes me happy."
as for the 'extortion' part of it, i had this happen to me: i was cleaning up my credit. i called one of the creditors i had blown off and told them i wanted to make things right. they said, 'sure, thx!' so i sent them a check and cleared it all up. what did they do? that gave them an opportunity to re-assess my status to the credit bureaus and they gave me another 3 years of bad credit. i would have been better off letting it just fade off my credit report.
so the camera store can do everything they can to make the buyer happy and still get screwed, feedback-wise. why not ask for reciprocation? again, with full disclosure.
@Nobody Special: The guy drops five large on delicate gear that arrives poorly packed. He lets the public know, probably after Amazon asks him to give feedback.
You come out of nowhere, not knowing him or anything more than what you've read, create an account, and make your first an only comment on Boing Boing one that calls him "pissy" and an "asshole". What does that make you, exactly?
My guess: an employee of a dodgy Brooklyn camera company.
@CPT TIM
Its amazing what conclusions you can reach if you precede any jump of logic with "It can be assumed"
I'm not saying he's an raving lunatic, just that he has an attitude, which is quite evident upon reading his blog.
Whining about a few wrinkles on a box (which he describes as "looked like a cow had sat on it", pretty extreme don't you tink?) AND getting a complete shipping refund is a pretty good deal, I don't see why or what he's complaining about, really.
Customer places order and gets goods, albeit in wrinkled package. Good are all in perfect condition in their PROTECTIVE PACKAGING. Customer rants about it and gets money back. Customer still unhappy...why?
@syntaxERR0R -- I didn't get any money back. I have to remove my review, which is factually correct, in order to get my refund. I will not do this as I think its creepy. I called, they didn't offer to help me. I wrote review, they suddenly care a lot.
If it is a refund for the miserable packaging job, why do I need to remove my review? It won't change the fact that my camera was shipped loose in a box? Isn't the purpose of a seller review on Amazon to let people know this happens? I offered the seller a way out when I called them. They didn't offer me a refund on the phone, in fact -- they didn't offer it until AFTER I left my review.
The only thing Cameta is offering to pay for is removing the review. They are not offering to make good on the lame packaging.
I guess the thing to learn, from your POV, is that everyone should give Camera a bad review to get a shipping refund and then reverse the review?
Cameta isn't in Brooklyn, they are way out on long island in Amityville.
Saying that they are in Brooklyn is like saying that the nations capitol is in Baltimore.
For what it's worth if the packaging looks like a cow sat on it , and the camera is OK , then it must have been adequately packed.
Pro cameras are pretty hard to break. Canon service always sends back my 1Ds ($7000 new ) in a box that isn't nearly as sturdy as the retail packaging. and I've seen news photographers drop them 8 feet onto pavement with no damage.
For $75 shipping--inside the US--I think it's not unreasonable to expect that the packing will be done with a high degree of professionalism. It's not a big or heavy camera, so the cost can't be attributed to either of those factors.
If we take the story at face value, he's not just complaining because the camera box was in poor condition on arrival: he's complaining, on Amazon, in public, because his first attempt to gain satisfaction--on the phone--got him nowhere.
Part of the problem here is that Amazon does not permit you to _edit_ feedback after you've submitted it. You can remove it or leave it: those are the two choices. If editing were possible, then a note from the company saying "here's $75, we'd appreciate it if you'd edit your feedback to reflect the fact that we're trying to make amends", that would seem entirely reasonable.
Since he can't edit...I still feel that they should make the first move and hope that he takes off the feedback voluntarily.
SyntaxError: he wasn't offered a complete shipping refund. He was offered money for taking down a negative review (quid pro quo). Had they said "here's your $75 back" and stuck a note in the envelope with the check saying "by the way if you'd take down that negative review we'd really really appreciate it" that would be a very different story.
IMO--again, assuming that we take this all at face value--the original review should stand, and while it's too bad that Amazon doesn't let people edit (or, better: add comments to) existing reviews, the review's existence (and BoingBoing-generated publicity) should be a powerful motivation to the company to do what's necessary to avoid such problems in the future.
It can also be assumed that bribing someone to take down a negative comment (and nothing else) does not constitute "pride in our customer service." One could also figure that their concept of pride in customer service is merely pride in the *image* of their customer service. You can assume that these are not the same thing.
People, people people. This is just business as usual.
@JRTom -- As the guy who complained, I think your assessment is 100%. I was upset, I called, I got pushed around on the phone about why I was complaining; as many people here have noted if it got here unbroken the packaging must have been good enough! I didn't agree with the pushing around and I left feedback, after Amazon asked for it.
If they offered me the $75 and asked that I consider taking the feedback down -- I would have. I like $75 more than I like a negative review. They didn't, however. They insisted I remove before they pay. That changed the game.
Thanks.
I recently got a Game Boy game which turned out to be a bootleg off of eBay. The seller refunded my money promptly when I requested it, but I still left a neutral review explaining the situation (including the prompt no questions refund), as the seller had quite a number of other GBA games listed. They contacted me asking me to reconsider, so I did and took down the neutral feedback. A different situation, to be sure, but I still wonder if that was right. I took their claim that they bought the games in bulk and were unaware of the bootlegs in good faith. Ah well, there are one or two tutorials that pop up almost every time you search for GBA games on eBay warning of bootlegs.
Maybe I should have left a positive feedback with the same comment.
Jason, may I ask you a question? Had they offered the shipping fees refund immediately when you called, would you have written the negative review anyway? Or would you have just put it as "packaging was sloppy but they made it right"? There's a big difference.
The way I see it, there was somebody not doing a great job on their end, who didn't write down your complaint. Only upon reading your review did they realize what had happened and then offered a refund and an apology. They screwed up and are trying to make it right for everybody, isn't that allowed?
In my opinion, they're only trying to get a review reflecting the WHOLE transaction, not just one that ommits their effort in satisfying you.
Had they wanted to actually bribe you for a glowing review, don't you think they would have proceeded by offering the refund immediately upon clicking "buy", like a "get $75 off by writing a good review"?
I don't hold stock in them (in case you're wondering), I just find it odd a such a company, which has been selling online for years and relying on reviews (they also have an eBay shop) would engage in such practices at the risk of having their reputation tarnished, which goes a long way on the intarweb. As I said, I've bought a couple of things from them (lenses) and always had great service, even though I was in Europe and couldn't do much against them in case of a problem, which a malevolent seller would have most likely taken advantage of.
@SYNTAXERR0R
I called Cameta looking for "resolution" - I didn't really want any money back; I was just mad that I'd paid a lot for the shipping and they really didn't care about ensuring safe delivery.
Heck, I'm the first person to say it got here and works! It just wasn't due to Cameta displaying any care.
Anyways, back to your question -- had they not been rude when I called and just apologized, I likely would havenever written a thing. Take a look, I very rarely review a company that I've bought from. I'm a huge Amazon shopper and very, very rarely review. I felt the interaction was bad enough other people should be warned. Once I got to "Warning others" I'm way past $75 to make it go away.
I didn't want money, I don't expect money -- but if they wanted to make it up to me with money they would not have demanded I remove the review before they sent the cash. That is where this went wrong for me. Had they just sent me the cash, told me and asked that I rethink the review -- they'd likely have gotten what they wanted. As it is they were blatant about offering me a bribe and that feels counter to the intent of all seller reputation systems; so I shared it with the world.
Cameta are notorious. I wonder how many other reviews they've bought off.
What irks me the most about Ebay is when sellers tell me "we hope you'll give us good feedback, and if you do, we'll do the same for you". Feedback is NOT supposed to be given for feedback; that's logrolling. My obligation to the seller ENDS the instant my payment clears, and positive feedback should be given to me then, not afterwards. My feedback for them depends on later events -- shipping speed and quality, the condition of the item, etc.
No legitimate business can afford bad publicity, especially from a highly visible haven for potential customers like boing boing. It's my bet that the rude phone person who 'pushed' JASON has already been canned. I'll further bet that there are staff meetings being scheduled; they've got a real problem and a lack of policy and procedure to deal with. Nobody wins on this one.
@Jason
Forgive me for not seeing evil, but it seems to me they clearly explain their reasons for doing so in their email.
"After looking into the said situation, we are not sure who you spoke to. However, we are looking into the situation as customer service is our number one priority here at Cameta Camera. In addition, we are also going to be speaking to the shipping manager in regards to how the unit was packaged and shipped. We also have the following option to offer you as a remedy.
We are ready to issue you a credit for $75.00 back to your Amazon account (which is the original freight paid). Our’ only concern is that in the past we have made an accommodation for a customer but they have left us negative feedback anyway. If you would be willing to remove your negative feedback remark to our account (and then email me to let me know that it has been done) I will issue the credit right away. We pride ourselves on good customer service and we are willing to work with you."
Since the present business model of online sales relies a lot on customer reviews, I find their request understandable and not unreasonable. Perhaps their wording is a bit dry in respect to the sum you have paid, but it is nevertheless acceptable in my view. Once again, I think you have over-reacted on this issue by attributing it to malice when incompetence (on their part) explains it.
In my opinion, if you want first class treatment for buying a $5K pro camera, you gotta (and should) be ready to pay a little extra by getting it from a store in which you'll get the respect and service you expect (and deserve), not from a discount outlet. I guess you got what you paid for.
That said, I hope you're satisfied with your camera, it's a nice toy ;)
Jason,
You have my support. Good on you for calling them on their bullshit. If everybody did that, the bullshit would dry up pretty fast.
@20 - That's what I thought.
@31 - Match point.
@33 - Bribery is "not unreasonable"? It's been said already, but I'll reiterate... Their offer was a bribe to remove the negative comment. They had the chance to fix it when he called. If I go to and they screw up my burger and I try to get it fixed and they are rude, I'm not going to call my friends back and say "oh no no sorry they're NOT horrible" to earn a few sawbucks. His review was accurate. If it were editable, I WOULD change it to reflect that the "company offered me a $75 bribe contingent on my removal of negative review". An offer that is CONTINGENT is a bribe plain and simple.
I would have taken down the negative review, taken the money and then put up a review that stated that they paid me to take down the old review. What would they do, complain that I took a bribe and didn't follow through on my part?
@36-you hit it right on the head! Boing! That way you teach the company a little lesson, get some money for being put out, and STILL get to alert other buyers (as well as Amazon) to the questionable business practice.
Or then again, you can just post your story on your website and then have it picked up by boingboing--boing BOING!
The bottom line is that the company has a policy problem and they likely won't fix it until they're called on the carpet, which has just happened.
But also Amazon has been worked over too on this blog so now maybe Amazon will pay more attention to this problem.
Do we all win?
@JC:
"What would they do, complain that I took a bribe and didn't follow through on my part?"
That sounds like a fun game...but, your wrong. You DID follow through on "your part"(if you were playing). You would have had to take down the negative review to get the refund, and then post a NEW review about their WORSE behaviour. Technically, you would be in the clear, since both reviews would, in their entirety, be different. Bad faith maybe...well...defiantly...but you did everything they required...with a twist.
In fact, if it were me, and I was 'pissy' about it, and since I can be quite the 'asshole', that MAY be something that I would do!
@20:
h Wllm: th mjrty f yr cmmnts t m r pr grbg. Fltng m fr "cmng t f nwhr"? t s my frst pst: HV t cm t f nwhr. nd wht r y syng? Tht prsn's frst pst hr hs t b ll swtnss nd lght? Wh md y th rbtr f BB pstng lgtmcy. Gv m brk. THN y flt m by syng dn't knw "nythng mr thn wht ('v) rd". Wht th hck m SPPSD t bs my cmmnts n, thr thn wht hs bn wrttn n th sbjct t hnd? By th wy: my mn qstn hs nt bn ddrssd pr th pckng mtrls mttr. S 'll sk Jsn drctly: r y syng tht thr ws N PCKNG MTRL WHTSVR n th bx? r smply LSS pckng mtrl thn y wld hv lkd (fr th mnt f mny y pd fr shppng). t dfntly hs brng n th mttr, s why dn't y fll s n?
Nob,
As an arbiter, there is something to be said for playing nice in your debut post. If you're nasty and you have no posting history, you don't win much respect. Also, if you're going to call someone an asshole, just use the word. If you're rude, asterisks won't make it polite. And if you're polite, typing it out won't make it rude.
nt,
'm nt lkng t wn rspct. nd thght ws plyng nc (r s nc s th sbjct wrrntd m bng). n th sntncs whr sd th wrds "pssy" nd "**hl", ls sd th wrds "sms t b" nd "dsn't sm t b" (s ppsd t "S" nd "SN'T") whch mns tht xprssd n pnn; spcltn f y wll (s ppsd t hvng sttd clrct FCT). nd smply sd strsks n cs thr ws fltr whch mght prvnt my cmmnt frm bng pstd.
@Jason - way to go.
It seems clear that the retailer's POV is that they won't treat their customers with respect or care... unless they complain publicly. It's almost a moot point to argue semantics of what a bribe is, or the technicalities of the situation. what matters is that the retailer didn't care about the customer, until an honest account of their experience threatened new business.
I simply used asterisks in case there was a filter which might prevent my comment from being posted.
No filter.
"seems to be" "doesn't seem to be"
Weasel Words
Arkizzle is possible considered one of the finest commenters on BoingBoing.
Peacock terms
You mean you've just been preening my feathers?
Nobody Special -- What are you looking to do by commenting here?
If you wanted your question about the packaging answered, wouldn't you have been better off just asking that, and not telling Jason that he "seem[s] to be" an asshole?
Keep in mind that he doesn't actually owe you an answer. You're a total stranger to him. It's up to him whether he feels like answering you, or ignoring you, or just deciding that he's sick of the conversation and not coming back here.
By asking him to spend his time answering your question, you're essentially asking him for a favor. Keep that in mind when you write, and you'll probably get better results.
You mean you've just been preening my feathers?
Is that what you kids are calling it these days?
Honor and reputation are really very simple for a company. Unlike individuals, who must sometimes commit suicide, a company may recover its honor by simply spending some money.
All Cameta ever had to do is:
1. listen
2. accept responsibility.
The proper thing should have been to immediately apologize, rectify the situation, put their own house in order and then if needed,publish a larger public apology mentioning the bad review, telling the story, accepting responsibility and swearing before all the world to never let it happen again.
This is how reputations are (or were) built.
Asking the bad review be taken down is contemptible.
Shipping damage is something fresh on my mind, since I had a set of projection tubes damaged after sending them to England, and one of a set of lenses damaged after sending them to Canada. The damage is the fault of the carrier, because I always pack extremely carefully. However, I still refund the appropriate amount (more, actually) and make sure the buyer is happy. Even if it means losing money on the deal - that's just how it works. Your packing needs to survive whatever the incompetent morons at USPS, UPS, or FedEx can throw at it. (Which will include 5' drops, or greater, and possibly a 150 pound box dropped on top for good measure.)
If Cameta wanted to "make it right," the only way I see that is possible is to take the camera back and send him a new one that's professionally packaged. I wouldn't be happy with a multi-kilobuck camera that got rattle around hard enough to damage the internal packaging.
syntaxerr0r, you really seem to have jumped to the defense of a company that's clearly not worth defending. I didn't get any of the feel that you got from Jason's post.
A company has one chance to treat a customer right. If their representative is rude to you, then that is the company being rude to you. Why would it be otherwise? Whether they were then fired or reprimanded doesn't change the fact that, at the time of your dealings, they were the duly appointed representative of said company. Then, to follow it up with an obviously shady bribe, just shows that it's business as usual for them. I can't imagine a single legitimate business that would make an offer and demand like that. If any company made said offer and demand of me, I would immediately place them on my shit list. No way I would ever trust them with a penny, much less thousands of dollars, again.
exactly
the only way I see that is possible is to take the camera back and send him a new one that's professionally packaged.
That's pretty standard business practice. Just because a purchase seems okay doesn't mean that there isn't sub-acute damage that will cause a failure in a month. Jason accepts liability for the possible hidden damage when he accepts the delivery in that condition. On a $5,000 camera, it would be prudent to return the improperly packed item to be inspected and to send him a new, properly packed one.
Ww. Wht n ncsts lttl Pytn Plc ths jnt SMS T B fr ppl lk Wllm, rkzzl nd vrm. Ths s gttng S fr fld. t's clr tht nyn wh dsn't tmtclly clp vry lttl pssy pstr n th bck nd sy "ttby fr trnng yt nthr mlhll nt mntn s w cn ll fl s mch mr sprr thn th thr gy" s gnn gt smn's ns t f jnt, pnts wddd, r slnky knkd (fl fr t pck yr wn llsn). Gd DMN. Lt's ll jst gr bt bsltly vrythng 100 prcnt fr th rst f trnty.
n lghtr nt, t #49: n yr thrd prgrph, r y bng srcstc? r srs? 'd lk t thnk t s srcsm, bt cnsdrng hw ptght vryn SMS T B, spps y'r srs. f s, hr's nthr d: myb Jsn cld pttn lcl jdg t frc ll Cmt mplys t ndrg snstvty trnng nd ngr mngmnt clsss (ftr sm mndtry cmmnty srvc, tht s). NVR FRGT!!!
ps- hey #49: as Avram so kindly pointed out, no one here owes me an answer, so maybe I shouldn't have asked you to spend your time typing a response :)
Avram,
Soon.
I also find it contemptible that a business competitor of Cameta posts here as "Nobody special",pretending to be a trolling Cameta owner to make them look even worse.
Confess; who DO you work for?
Never mind, it's all so tawdry.
Ant,
Ah DECLARE! This hyar is the sub-acutest little thread I ever did see...
(sub-acute: my new favorite word)
:)
"little thread I ever did see..."
no history beyond this item
Liar.
Wow, is that what extreme bi-polar looks like?
"no history beyond this item"
inscrutable arcane sentence
Schmck.
@Anti
Amen to your #52 reply. Jason accepted the camera in its shipping condition, which he perhaps should have returned on the spot in case he had doubts regarding the camera's condition. Not having seen a picture of the box, I can't tell what course of action he should have adopted on that particular point. Anyway, the camera is under warranty and being a pro camera (top of the line Nikon), those are pretty sturdy (they're built like tanks, really), actually a lot more resistant to shocks than you may imagine, so I wouldn't think (nor hope) that the camera will fail because of that packaging mishap.
@DCULBERSON
I'm not jumping to the defense of anybody, I'm just saying we don't have enough elements to determine if Cameta's action were truly malicious or if it was a one time fuckup due to incompetence, as there seems to be good faith argument on both sides. BTW, what makes you think the company isn't worth defending? Just because it's a business they should automatically be labeled as "guilty"? I hope for you that you don't get treated that way the day you screw up, ever.
I'm interested to know what happens next, if there's any follow-up to this. Anyhow, as a photographer, I seldom resort to buying expensive camera bodies from cheap outlets. I'd rather pay a little more to a real shop, it's always so much better in case of a problem, rather than having to ship your camera to a service centre. Yeah, good service actually costs money... amazing, eh?
What an incestuous little Peyton Place this joint SEEMS TO BE for people like William, Arkizzle and Avram.
Arkizzle just died for BoingBoing in the other thread. When you've been so loyal, you can talk.
Which is to say, don't have such a potty mouth if you want to have your opinions respected. If you want respect, you have to earn it here just like anywhere else, and when you come off abrasive before anyone knows you, nobody really -wants- to know you. No wonder people jumped on you- you're behaving like a troglodyte and we happen to be defensive of each other in these parts. Don't like it, don't comment. If you'd be a little nicer about voicing your dissent, it would get heard more clearly.
ll..."ptty mth". My gd, Tnn, ddn't rlz ths ws sch n lt lttl clb. 'd bttr mnd my ps nd qs (ps. sd "p". mr f tht ptty mth f mn, srry). hd n d rkzzl dd dfndng th rlm n sm thr pst: ws h r sh bng ptz THR, t? Jmpng nd thmpng n th nrst sf trgt, th "nw gy", th strngr? Whtvr. Dg: md hmrs, frndly cmmnt t ntns (s #56) nd rkzzl wdd n n t (wth hs r hr "b-plr" jb) whn h r sh clrly ddn't vn frkng NDRSTND wht ws rfrncng (nd h r sh wsn't vn th prsn bng ddrssd), bt gss THT'S k t, h? Shsh. Gt vr yrslvs, ppl...
Don't waste your manicure. He's destined for the abyss.
I've had similar experiences with several online resellers. I think it's awesome consumers FINALLY get an opportunity to report poor service. I think it's important we also reward good service, though.
why would you put your email in your first post?
Hly smk. byss m, bby. Bt nt bfr lv y wth fw chc wrds. Pmps. Smg. Slf-cngrtltry. ncsts. gcntrc. Slf-cntrd. Xnphbc. Clqsh. Snbbsh. nd spkng f "lylty", Tnn, rmmbr whn Cry lmntd th "cmmnt pstng" ptn n BngBng yrs g? Wr y vn rdng BB thn? ws. nd knw WHY h lmntd th pstng ptn t tht tm. D Y? dn't vn prtclrly lk Cry tht mch, bt snt hm n ml t th tm, tryng t chr hm p vr th whl dl. S dn't tlk t m bt "lylty". s mttr f fct, why dn't y tk yr vntd "lylty" nd d smthng gynclgclly ndvsbl wth t...
I'm formally submitting my application for the “elite little club.”
Takuan, Antinious, and Arkizzle, I await your decision. While I wait, I'll just enjoy the complimentary trolls.
I had this happen to me, and the amazon.com seller offered a refund of $5 for taking the negative review down. I didn't. My favorite part was when they complained that the review made their rating go down. That's the idea.
I ended up calling Amazon and saying, "can they do that?" It turns out they can't under the Amazon merchant agreement, according to the customer rep I got on the phone. Report it if this happens to you.
As a buyer online, I have an obligation to report what really happened to me, not remove that report for money.
It's a double obligation to:
- warn other customers that they might have the same experience.
- let the store know that I had a poor experience. If they really care, they will want to fix it.
Caveat emptor doesn't work when you're being bribed to silence.
@Nobody
There were packing materials in the box. They were insufficient to stop the camera from freely sliding 4-5" in the box.
Make what you will of that.
@syntaxerr0r - I said they weren't worth defending because they made three serious errors in a row.
1) Poor packaging on a $3k camera
2) Rude response when called about it
3) Inappropriate and unprofessional response to negative review
So how have they earned defending?
Oh, and calling the complainant 'a whiner' and saying 'I think the company is offering a fair deal here' are pretty clearly defending their actions.
#66
Can I have some of those words too, or are they just for Ant and Tenn?
"I made a humorous, friendly comment to Antinous (see #56) and Arkizzle waded in on it (with his or her "bi-polar" jibe) when he or she clearly didn't even freaking.."
If you read your post-history from the standpoint of never-having-met-you-before (like the rest of us), following the train of thought from your first post to now, it reads like an emotional pendulum, swinging between making 'in' jokes with people you just met, to shouting selected words of the diatribe you are delivering, aggressively, to the same group of people.
It reads quite erratically, hence the '"bi-polar" jibe'.
I truly don't give two shits whether you "clap every little pissy poster on the back", but do you have to start with assuming facts and spouting vitriol?
As has already been mentioned, you could have just asked the 'packing' question, clarified the facts, and then given an opinion. But you didn't, you decided the facts in your head, and chose to act on your conclusions while insulting the person involved, in a way that didn't even have the courage of it's convictions.
If you think he's an asshole, just say so. If you don't have enough information to reliably call him an asshole, don't imply it and then take it back.
In before reliably calling me an asshole :p
LeavingHalfway:
Have you filled out your 27b/6?
I worked for a large amazon marketplace retailer for years. This is common practice.
Frequently, customers go straight to leave bad feedback when something goes wrong with their order, without ever contacting the vendor directly. Good vendors will do anything to make you happy, but they can't help you if you don't contact them directly!
#73
So, by implication, this is a bad vendor?
#71:
f y thnk thr s ny "vtrl" n my ntl pst (#14) thn clrly y dn't knw wht vtrl s. Thr ws pnn sttd n tht pst, nt "fct", s y ccs m f "mkng p n my hd". Th vtrl strtd whn Wllm nd thn 3 thr ppl strtd mn-dgplng n m, snc ws strngr rnd hr nd bvsly nt llwd t xprss ngtv pnn wtht hvng ntrdcd myslf t ths lttl swng scty, nd thn cchng ny ngtv cmmnt n slw f pstvs s s nt t ffnd nyn's dlct snsblts. ddrss n ss 'm ttckd fr, thn 3 mr crp p. Ws my ntl pst "vtrl" (s y stt?) r ws sng "wsl wrds" (s sm thr nmrd lldgd?) vrm skd m "wht r y tryng t ccmplsh by pstng hr?" hhh, PST, spps? lttl cmmnctn? Lk s hv t ss wht ppr dtlng my ntntns by pstng hr. THT'S wht mn by snbbry. Thn Tnn sys "Dn't lk t? Dn't cmmnt." Trly mrnc dvc, tht. Ppl lk Jsn dn't hv t fllw sch dvc, bt D, h? nd t th tm md my "frndly" pst t ntns, h r sh hdn't sd nythng bjctnbl t m, s t dsn't rlly ft n wth yr clm f "b-plrty" n my prt (h r sh wld hv hd t md snd cmmnt bfrhnd fr my frndly pst t mk n sns, cntxt-ws). FNLLY, whn ntns DD strt bng sntty wth m (pstng sch cryptc/mns gms s "vrm- Sn" nd "H's dstnd fr th byss" ('m ssmd vrm skd ntns prvtly "whn r y gnn kll fl ths S..B" r whtvr, prmptng th frst rpns). THT'S wht mn by clqsh. Clrly, 'm nt wntd hr s 'll lv y ppl t yr crcl jrk/fngr...
Good vendors will do anything to make you happy, but they can't help you if you don't contact them directly!
I would go with a vendor who had a rating above 90%. The relationship between service and review is non-linear. You can give the best service imaginable, but if your customer is in a crappy mood, you might not get positive feedback. That's life. I look for realistic trends, not perfection.
I love the fact that when talking about how nice he's been to Cory and for how long...he spelled Cory's name wrong.
Now THAT'S funny.
Unfortunately, I suspect it will soon be impossible to tell the difference in that comment, since the extra letter was a vowel.
For some reason I'm reminded of an old country song: "How Can I Miss You (If You Won't Go Away)"?
Nobody 75: Clearly, I'm not wanted here so I'll leave you people to your circle jerk/finger...
Oh, for heaven's sake, stop whining. It's really very unappealing.
Speaking of which, if there is such an event, I'd be very offended if I weren't at least invited.
Honestly NB, I do see where you are coming from, you did get pounced.. but you definitely invited it. (hear me out, there is no fight here)
You will, I assume, agree that people on the internet can only respond to what you say (they know nothing of you IRL). You will also, hopefully, agree that people will not only respond to what you say, and how you say it, but even how you type it too.
"This buyer guy's whole attitude seems sort of pissy, IMO. The camera store tried to make things right, and he's raising even more of a stink because of it. "
In your opening line you insult the guy (with no prior knowledge), and then move on to misrepresenting the situation, by conveniently leaving out the trouble and grief this guy had to take from the seller. They only contacted him because of the bad review, the didn't just "tr[y] to make things right", they waited until it was in their interest.
"What does "basically" mean. DID they, or DIDN'T they? Was there NO packing material whatsoever? Or just not as much as one would reasonably expect for $75?
Then, you make a point (in a fairly ungenerous tone) over the word "basically" as if he's misrepresenting the situation of whether they "DID or DIDN'T", and demand he tells us which.
All-caps, as I'm sure you are aware, signifies shouting. Sometimes all-caps are appropriate for emphasis and sometimes they just look like you're shouting about stuff, especially when coupled with demands and disbelief.
You finished with implying (in weasel words) that he's an asshole.
__
The vitriol I mentioned, began in your next post:
"Oh William: the majority of your comments to me are pure garbage."
How was that to be taken? Should we all just sit back?
This is a community. As you have mentioned, you have been reading BB since day one, you should know how this shit goes, because it happens at least once a week.
"The vitriol started when William and then 3 other people started mini-dogpiling on me, since I was a stranger around here and obviously not allowed to express a negative opinion.."
William politely, and without any personal attack, pointed out the facts. He questioned why anyone would start their posting-life on BB with a petty rant about facts they don't have. I bet lots of people thought the same and said nothing. (yet)
No one else had said anything to you by then, just William, to whom you reacted like a dick.
At that point, you were coming across like a troll (to me at least), and Antinous took the time to politely tell you there was a better way to converse.
It was only after two people had taken the time to politely point out that you were coming across pretty negatively, that I even got involved. I pointed out that saying someone "seems to be" an asshole is, in fact, known as Weasel Words, nothing more. No attack.
Avram politely (and genuinely I presume) asked what you hoped to gain, with your current tack, and made a very good point that Jason didn't owe you the answer you were demanding, and that if he did answer, it was a generous act.
Again (#53), you open with sniping personal shit, and continue to dig the hole deeper.
Takuan responds with, as you put it, an 'inscrutable arcane sentence'. You respond, including calling Tak a schmuck, whilst admitting you didn't get what he had actually meant.
Tenn tried to reason with you too.. with valid, friendly advice. She even tried a joke, which you later turn into another reason to dislike your tone.
Then, we are an "elite little club", and I'm a putz.
More of the same, only now Antinous is less generous, and you list a lot of words that aren't very friendly. Then you get fairly elitist yourself, going on about BB "years ago" and how you tried to console Cory.
At #71, I tried to explain my 'jibe'. Also, now, offering the same advice that everyone else has offered thus far.
__
Yes, you got pounced, because you were acting like a dick. Even with your first post made, if you had backed down when William first responded, and just heard what he was saying instead of going off on one, you wouldn't have been "dog-piled" at all.
FWIW, there is no "privately.." on BB, as far as I know Antinous and Avram are not in nefarious cahoots, it was most likely just a cryptic aside, for grins.
Of course, maybe they are in cahoots and we should all watch our backs, just to be on the safe side.
..and that's the end of that chapta'..
Now my bloody dinner is cold :(
maybe they are in cahoots
Heh.
@nobody special, the point isn't your opinion, it's your way of communicating it. If you've actually been reading BoingBoing, and it's comments, you've seen Teresa do a lot of moderating based upon tone and little else. She's the arbiter of civility here. Read over your comments again, and really think about how they might be taken antagonistically. If you're honest with yourself, and with us, you'll probably see that your initial comment wasn't an auspicious beginning.
@everybody else: What I find especially amusing is that "nobody special" cropped up out of nowhere, to comment a bunch on this post as his very first comment after having read BoingBoing for years upon years? What are the chances he's not a sock pupped that Teresa has already taken care of in the past?
This isn't an especially interesting thread to jump into after "years" of lurking.
I'm going to go "benefit of the doubt" on this one, and prescribe the best course of action to be one of two things..
1. Come back, be nice, everything's fine.
2. New name, slink back, no body knows, your little secret.
Either'll work fine.
"This isn't an especially interesting thread to jump into after "years" of lurking."
Yeh, modern trolling standards are definitely dropping, why I remember, when all we had was tin-can-telephones, the trolls'd at least make the effort to be controversial in their opinions..
War! God! The Empire!
..now it's all 'what does "basically" mean?' Not exactly inspiring the use of Troll's Bane is it? A bit of polite conversation, and they jump ship..
Thank you, Arkizzle. I was wondering if anyone saw my joke as what it was. Being as you were the subject of the joke, maybe it was still cryptic. Amd of course they're in cahoots. We are, too. Haven't you been issued your -whisperwhisper- string and can yet? Drop by Babies later on and we'll issue them to you with the proper ceremony.
NobodySpecial, I apologize if you took it as deliberate rude commentary on your 'loyalty' to BB. I'm sure you've been here as long as I have been, and that's not the point I was intending to make.
Leavinghalfway, I'm offended by your not including me in the list of elite little club owners. What am I, chopped liver? Your form is refused.
Wait, I just serve the drinks, don't I guys? Damnit. Do I get a promotion any time soon? I -did- cremate Arkizzle. And you all enjoyed my riddle, you know you did. I think it's time for me to graduate from the kiddy table.
That's CREEPY Arkizzle.
Your comment wasn't posted when I- well, you know. -Rustlewhispercanandstringtelephoneplot-
well that IS pretty weird..
* subject 10 is showing an increasing aptitude in the telepathic range *
* recommend increasing her level status, and proceeding as normal *
Nc t s tht y gys ply s fr (trshng my psts by tkng ll th vwls t f thm, mn). spps Xphr hd smthng t d wth t, snc h r sh s rfrncd th vwl bt. Whtvr. Whvr ws rspnsbl, fck y. nd bg l fck y t vryn wh hs gn lng wth t by rmnng slnt bt t. Shm n y...
Nobody, you are quivering paranoid mess.
The only person with the power to disemvowel a post is Teresa. Xopher mentioned it because he (and we) knew it was probably gonna happen if you didn't keep it civil.
I thought you were a long-time reader? I thought you and Cory were tight?
If you had been on BB and re