Little Brother launch in Toronto, May 1
Next Thursday, May 1, I'll be launching my next novel, Little Brother, at Toronto's Merril Collection, at 7PM. Little Brother's my first young adult novel, a book about young people who use technology to fight for the restoration of the Bill of Rights to American politics, setting them square in the crosshairs of the war on terror.
BakkaPhoenix books will be selling books at the event, and they're also happy to take pre-orders for custom inscriptions -- CDN$19.95 for the book, plus $9 and GST for shipping in Canada, $15 to the US, $20 to Europe, and $25 to the rest of the world (BakkaPhoenix: 416 963 9993, inquiries@bakkaphoenixbooks.com).
Link
the latest
Custom inscriptions, eh? I'll be buying one for my Nephew. I think he'll eat it up.
m fn f 3 thngs: bng bng, scf, shmlss slf prmtn...
bt srsly nw, hw mny tms cn pst b md bt ths bk? 9, 10, 11 tms? whn wll th mdnss stp?
myb nw tht t s rdy fr lnch w cn ll stp hrng bt ths.
hey Clockwork:
If you don't like the free ice cream, don't eat it.
How's YOUR book and YOUR blog going, btw?
Just wondering...
Whoops, forgot the free CC download link. What's that URL?
Let me guess, their first move is to download a bunch of DRM-free music with bittorrent.
Take that, "the man"!!
ttlly lrdy sw sd cpy Lttl Brthr n sl fr $2 n lttl bkstr n Prtlnd Mn, s y cn qt tlkng bt t vry thr dy nw.
Registrado, it'll go up once the book's out.
I'm going to be posting about Little Brother on a very regular basis for the next year or so. I will be posting more links to the related instructables, there will be videos and audio material, keysigning parties, and reminders of each stop on the book tour.
If that bothers you, you're probably in the wrong place (or you can figure out how to skip the stuff, as, I assume, you skip everything else that we post that you're not interested in).
Boing Boing is the place where the four editors post about the stuff we find interesting, and about the stuff we do with the stuff we find interesting (e.g. books, videos, etc). If that's not what you want to read, you've come to the wrong place.
@ #3 nd Cry:
wht s th prblm wth lttl crtcsm? fr bnch f ppl cncrnd wth cvl lbrts y sr dn't lk t whn smn dsgrs wth yr pnt f vw.
I was lucky enough to get an email to PNH in time last week and I got and read the ARC. I have been recommending this book to everyone I know even if I don't know whether or not they normally read sf.
Great job - in a way it's a shame they are marketing this as YA. My review even says, "This book should be required reading."
Kerry - aka Trouble
Have the book tour stops been announced?
Jared@11 not yet! I'll have everything up shortly, though, around the time the book launches.
Kerry@10 Thanks for the review!
Clockwork@9 So, you think it infringes on your liberties to be told that it's rude to come here and dictate what should and shouldn't be on the blog?
@Clockwork
You should probably quit while you're ahead.
At least you haven't been disemvoweled yet.
Every time Cory posts something about one of his books I always look at the comments to see if anyone has come up with new or interesting ways to complain about someone promoting his work on HIS OWN BLOG on HIS OWN WEBSITE. Um... nope.
You people really are like clockwork though.
clckwrk:
The problem _i_ have with your "little criticism" is that you're basically being a hater with nothing positive to contribute.
The point that i was trying to make in my first response (#3) to you is that Cory has every right to be proud of and to promote his book on his site. And you have every right to not read the posts relating to it if they bother you so much.
i remember BoingBoing before comments were enabled, and i definitely think it's a richer site now because of the positive contributions of BB readers. So try to be a more conscious visitor here @ the BoingBoing free ice cream emporium.
Your energy would be better spent focusing on your own accomplishments in the world rather than tearing down others' efforts.
Listen to the good Doctor Pickles --- vowels are a good thing ;)
@ # 9 - reasoned criticism is a good thing. Drive by snark-for-the-sake-of-snark is just noise.
However, if you enjoy that sort of thing, try the comments section at the Gawker Media blogs. Or 4chan. You'd fit in there real well.
HTH. HAND.
Eh, as much as it annoys me to read about the same thing time and again, it's his blog. If a lot of people agree with you, the visits will fall as more people tire of all the advertising. That's how blogs live and die, after all.
"Eh, as much as it annoys me to read about the same thing time and again..."
You don't HAVE to read it. That's what the scroll bar is for.
h, dn't mnd hm pstng bt hs wrk n ccsn! ctlly qt njyd rd "Smn cms t twn, smn lvs twn" nd wldn't hv dscvrd t f h hdn't pstd bt t.
nd ys m wr tht ths s hs wn blg nd h cn d whtvr h wnts. bt th fct h's md t lst tw, f nt thr sprt psts jst t tll s th dt f th bk lnch s gvng ff rthr dsprt srt f vb. bggng nnys m.
hnstly, thnk t'd b bttr nd lss rpttv t s dly rdrs jst t pt smthng bt yr bk sttnry n th mn pg. prhps rght bv th "dn't mss" sctn. jst blrb bt whn th lnch s nd lnk t by t. jst sggstn.
re: #3 onewave
If you don't like the free ice cream, don't eat it.
Sweet! This is the first I've heard about the free ice cream. I am totally going to Toronto next Thursday!
but seriously now, how many times can Clockwork whine about the same thing? 9, 10, 11 times? when will the madness stop?
maybe now that he's whined we can all stop hearing him whine.
what? was someone talking?
So, looking forward to hearing more about the Little Brother Launch!
I read it last year and was blown away. It's Cory's finest work to date, and I can't wait to see the response from the public. Congratulations, Cory!
I've been called a sychophant by some who hang her in Boingboing land. I'm happy that Cory Doctorow has a new book out and that he's doing well. Talking down on a self- promotion is just sour grapes as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, I'd love to be the one promoting his new book, but I'm not, so at least let me get geeked for someone who is. Doctorow, I'm happy for you! All your real fans are. If that's being sychophantic then too frakking bad.
Hey, I'm with clockwork!
Posting this book so much when I have no way of buying it for a whole week? Pure [evil] torture!
Now I'm going to have to spend the whole week reading short stories, just to make sure I'm not in the middle of a book when yours comes out. :(
PS:When is the e-release on this one? Are you producing an official e-version, or just letting us make them?
PPS:You should have a Donate button on your site next to the free downloads. We're techno-friendly, not cheap. Just saying.
The free ice cream is a lie. :-)
I've developed a new acronym:
CATFOTFIC (complaining about the flavor of the free ice cream)
Sounds interesting Cory, good luck with it.
PS:When is the e-release on this one? Are you producing an official e-version, or just letting us make them?
Cory has stated on his podcast that the ebook will be posted either on launch day or a few days after (since he'll be be in the Fabled Canadas on launch day and presumably kinda busy).
PPS:You should have a Donate button on your site next to the free downloads. We're techno-friendly, not cheap. Just saying.
He's also said on the podcast that direct cash donations aren't the best thing. There's supposed to be a system set up for the people who want to donate to send a book directly to a library or teacher. That keeps the publisher happy, increases sales figures, and gets to the book to more people.
Also, I just got an email from Chapters (big chain book store in Canada) that they've shipped my copy of Little Brother today.
Awesome, Antinous. It's gonna catch on.
Cory:
> Registrado, it'll go up once the book's out.
Mucho arigato!
yeah, too many catfots out there for sure
Agent 86:
>PPS:You should have a Donate button on your site next to the free downloads.
Cool, I like that idea. I can be fast-and-loose with the PayPal...
I wouldn't say clockwork's comment is useless and unhelpful. It gives you, dear BoingBoingers, the opinion of a Boing Boing reader. True, every one of us has a scrollbar, none of us HAVE to read this website or any particular editor's posts, but are you guys running this blog for your own enjoyment only, or do you want to know what kind of posts people like, and which ones annoy them?
At the end of the day it's still your blog, your decision what to post, and no one can do anything about it except stop reading. No need to get all upset just because someone thinks you're posting too much or too little about something, and wants to tell you about it. He wasn't even rude, he was just frank.
Cory, you can decide he's a minority and ignore him, or you can think about whether there are more people out there who think you're tooting your own horn too much. That CAN be off-putting. I'm not saying either way- but I don't understand the hostility over an honest comment.
Cefeida -- I can't speak for the other editors, but I am running this blog for my own enjoyment only. If other poeple enjoy it, that's great. If they don't enjoy, I wish they'd go the hell away.
you....you..... you mean you were thinking of someone else the whole time!!??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Fair enough, Mark, but then you'd probably be better off disabling the comments. The internet is an interactive medium- a more or less loyal reader will feel entitled to speak up, especially when he's given the opportunity.
For the record, I enjoy most of BB. Otherwise I wouldn't give a damn. I don't enjoy all of it. I'd like to feel like I can say 'meh' as easily as I can say 'awesome' (although the 'meh' will usually demand more of an explanation, which I'm aware of.)
I mean, you do have the power to just delete the posts that you wish would go away, of course. My opinion doesn't matter at all- only yours does. That's not snark, that's a fact, and I accept it. Still, you just replied to something I said- that means you want dialogue with your readers. In some minuscule, perhaps almost insignificant way, you care that I care.
I'll be honest, there is nothing more unnerving than internet shrines. They look suspicious. I much prefer to see a blog where people feel comfortable enough to say 'I didn't like this post because...'
I prefer blogs where honest people talk and enjoy and the willful troublemakers and rude get booted out the doors.
I welcome disagreement on the topics I post. The discussions are interesting, and I learn a lot. If I were hosting a dinner party and we had a discussion that included differing opinions, I would enjoy it.
But I have a low tolerance for people who say, in effect "I'm not interested in this topic, and I don't like it when you write about it." If I were hosting a dinner party and someone pointed at my collection of ukuleles and said, "You should stop collecting ukuleles because I don't care for them," I would not invite that person back.
Are you clear on the difference?
I don't see either of those in this particular thread, Takuan. So far, so good.
". In some minuscule, perhaps almost insignificant way, you care that I care."
would you use that tone to someone's face? And would you expect a re-invite?
Not really. I don't see why you don't think a comment on the image of Boing Boing as a whole isn't useful. No one can force any of the editors to change what they post about. But if no one ever tells them a recurring topic isn't interesting, they won't know.
I don't see the harm in it at all. I don't get the analogy either. Maybe like this: say someone who often frequents your dinner parties said 'I wish you'd shut up about ukuleles.' The rest of the people might disagree and say they're fascinated with the subject. When I see my friends' eyes glazing over when I start talking about eighteenth century sail for the millionth time, I know it's time to stop. Or at least I consider stopping. :P I don't get angry with them for wanting to talk about something else.
Although to think about it, if you really do only post this for your own enjoyment and don't give a fig whether people read it or not, this discussion is moot.
It's still my opinion that criticism is useful and should be welcome regardless of whether the blog is free or not. I personally like to know why people do or don't like my work. However if you disagree with that, there's no point in either of us repeating ourselves over and over.
"wld y s tht tn t smn's fc? nd wld y xpct r-nvt?"
jst dd, ddn't ? r y syng my tn s npprprt? 'v sn y s fr wrs rnd hr. Th sbjct ws pn fr dscssn- ws frnk. Bt f ffndd nyn, plgs, tht wsn't my ntnt.
Lk t r nt, whn y mk blg pblc nd pn cmmnts, y'r nvtng ppl t tll y wht thy thnk. BB sms t b prtty bg n hnsty n gnrl- f thr s n mplctn tht crtcsm f th dtrs s nwlcm, prd, thn mssd t.
Fair enough, Mark, but then you'd probably be better off disabling the comments.
So...you make the rules or nobody can play? Mark's comment about blogging for his own entertainment is the complete and total answer to all of these endless discussions. Can I chase you down the street and complain about your clothes? Shout through your window about your crappy choices in TV viewing? Of course not. Does that mean that you have to stay home with the shades drawn and a bag over your head? Social rules exist so that people can associate with each other without it turning ugly.
ntns, whr dd vr sy tht shld mk th rls? ws mkng sggstn, tht s ll. Why d y fnd tht s ffnsv?
Spkng f scl rls, sn't thr n bt ccptng crtcsm?
Mrk sys h spks nly fr hmslf. wll blv hm bcs, wll, h sd t. Bt dn't s why ths s s bvs. Hw n rth cld ssm tht smn wh gs t th trbl t crt blg lk BB dsn't gv dmn whthr ppl rd nd njy t?
Y cn cmpln bt my clths nd chcs f y lk, dn't mnd, bt cmprng hrssmnt t dscssng thngs n n pn blg s bt slly. 'm nt shtng thrgh smn's wndw, 'm pstng n pblc blg wth n pn cmmnt systm.
I'm posting on public blog with an open comment system.
No, you're posting on a private blog with moderated comments.
Okay, I'm posting on a private blog with moderated comments. You're right, my wording was wrong.
m pstng n blg whr n crtcsm s llwd?
nd t b clr n ths, n cs shld wsh t cmmnt gn.
Oh snap.
Antinous FTW.
BoingBoing is the property, possession and sovereign domain of the Boingers. Comments are not an invitation to criticism. That's why there's a moderatrix. You should feel completely free to be amusing or informative. Corrections are always welcome. Complaining about the free ice cream leads to disemvowelment and eventually expulsion. As has been said so many times, you can write whatever you damn well please on your own blog. But not here. You're on somebody else's property. Play by the rules or play in someone else's yard. Here's BB's Moderation Policy. I'm sure that it will answer all your questions and help you to decide if BoingBoing is the right blog for you.
I've read that policy, Antinous. Nowhere does it say in there that criticism is not allowed. It says, however:
Q. So we're not allowed to say something's boring?
A. Of course you're allowed. You just have to explain why.
Clockwork said Cory's posts about his new book annoyed him because of their frequency. He didn't break any rules as far as I can see. Neither did I.
OK, it's BECOME boring. But that was the idea, right?
Why is it that complainers, after complaining and receiving a fairly polite brush off, keep complaining until they're banned or their posts are deleted?
Oh I know, because it's the internet. Never back down under any circumstances!!
>K, t's BCM brng. Bt tht ws th d, rght?
Wll, f y mn Cry, tht wld b wrd strtgy.:P
f y mn m, 'm nly rplyng t thr ppl rplyng t m tc tc. t's dscssn. Mstly 'm stll tryng t fgr t why thr s sch fss s vr crtcsm (kp n mnd sy crtcsm, nt rdnss), nd m srprsd tht ppl hr r s vhmntly gnst t.
wld hv tkn Mrk's cmmnt s fnl, xcpt h dd vry clrly sy tht h spks nly fr hmslf. nd s fr th dscssn s cvlsd. Mstly.
Bt m gttng rdy t stp. dn't s wht mr cld sy n th tpc. Tk t r lv t, gss. jst wsh 'd gttn n nswr t my qstn.
Tak-kun,
I've observed that time-wasting is the new trend.
New internet meme: LOL CATFOTFIC
"o hai! i can has sum attention, plz?"
"i'm in ur blogz, hatin' on ur accomplishmentz..."
at the risk of abbreviating the odd honest person at shoulder height, I henceforth vow to flip 'em a CATFOTFIC dismissal and get on with having fun. I suppose trollfeeding never really changes.
nd nw th cvlsd cnvrstn trns t mckng th dssntng mnrty. Yp, tm fr m t lv ths thrd.
m dsppntd.
I just have to say, I comment here to interact with the other mutants, not with the boingers. Boingers are no fun to interact with, as they are always off doing cool things in the real world, and ignoring little ole me.
"But if no one ever tells them a recurring topic isn't interesting, they won't know."
They find it interesting, therefore it is interesting. If they suddenly changed their mind based off of someone's comment, that wouldn't be the topic becoming less interesting, that would be the boingers becoming more assimilated. Assimilated = normal = boring. Besides, they seem to thrive being weird - why try to take that away from them?
PS:plurals sound horrible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnciqJ8-IUE
Cefeida and others
You know what though? This being a blog and a non-static medium, repeated posts about ongoing events have intrinsic value. Especially when they add new information.
And seriously? Their self promotion posts are a tiny fraction of their total posts.
Cory
I got one of the copies that PNH was offering a bit ago, and read it rather faster than I had intended. (I'd intended to spend three days and blog my impressions each day. That held up until I woke up the morning of the second day.)
Splendid book, and I've been talking it up to anyone who I think might possibly be interested. (Actually, back when you had the highschool newspaper review copies, I got a friend of mine to request one and write it up for her school's paper. She liked it too, and hopefully some of the students there will come find it when it comes out.)
Getting back to the book...
I managed to score one of the ARCs that PNH gave away. For some reason, I've always bounced off Doctorow's fiction that I've read online. I assumed it was his writing style, but now I wonder if it was some effect of the format. I couldn't put Little Brother Down.
It reminded me a bit of a Heinlein juvenile with its competent, intelligent young protagonist, but Marcus is much less naive (regarding both women and life in general) than Heinlein's boy scouts. There's even a character (a journalist) who somewhat parallels the older mentors in the Heinlein juvies.
The other book that has something of the same flavor is one of my favorites: Steven Gould's Jumper. As in Jumper Doctorow's character fights the government, but Doctorow's villains are significantly more vicious. I can't imagine Marcus becoming friends with his tormentor in a sequel.
The didactic content of the book is handled well, and infodumps aren't objectionable or two obvious. However, too much Neal Stephenson may have blunted my sensitivity to infodumps.
I wanted to stand up an applaud when Marcus, presumably echoing Doctorow's viewpoint, argued with a despicable teacher regarding the Bill of Rights.
One word of warning if you are considering the book for a young teenager who is not your child: Marcus and his girlfriend have sex, and while Doctorow draws a veil across the finale, the foreplay is fairly explicit. It's not more explicit than things I read at age 13, but it may be more explicit than what my parents wanted me to be reading. Parental guidance may be warranted.
and furthermore
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/pix/bar/gq/MaresGelato-m.jpg
Roninkakuhito, just to clarify, I myself never said Cory posted too much about his book. I just said that I don't see the need to get the pitchforks out when someone criticises a Boinger.
And now I'll shut up for real and let people talk about the book itself.
Actually, while I'm here I should say, good luck, Cory. Should have said that in the first place.
Comment posted by Clockwork under Mark's post "Untitled 1":
"i am so sick of hearing about untitled... honestly, when will it end?"
Bravo, you took your spanking and made some humor out of it. Good for you. :)
Cefeida, do you remember what it was like before I started dropping cartoon anvils on the heads of people who were doing the "I am just too cool, and this is just too boring" routine? Remember how we'd get entire threads full of me-too types competing to see who could lay claim to the biggest crock of ennui?
Bleh!
No, Theresa, I don't, because for the longest time I never even read the comments. I'll take your word for it that it was nasty.
I appreciate the work you do, naturally. I'm not an advocate for this turning into YouTube comments (oh dear god). Moderation is necesary, and as I keep saying from the start, you guys DO have the last word. All I can do is give my opinion, and all you can do is leave it up or delete it. My bf ws mr wth th thr cmmntrs wh cn't stnd sng ny crtcsm n ths thrds, n mttr ts m, nd dsmss t s thy wld spm lnk, mckng th cmmntr whl thy'r t t.
Hwvr, snc s y hv dsmvwlld th cmmnt n qstn, nw knw tht y gr wth ths cmmntrs nd tht th mdrtn plcy s n fct lt strctr thn ndrstd t t b. Tht nswrs my qstn nd f vr fl tht BB pst dsrvs crtcsm, wll nt pst ny, knwng tht t s nwlcm nd wst f my tm s wll s yrs. Smpl s tht.
Srry t hv tkn p yr tm.
Cefeida,
I feel your pain on this. I feel that even something that's free can use some constructive input without people becoming hostile. There's just no reason for it (though it didn't help that the original complaints weren't thorough or well-thought out, as they were just cries of frustration).
I agree with you about the YouTube comments, of course, no one wants that. I also never thought the moderation was for disagreement. But it's like George Lucas said when he announced that only the Special Editions of Star Wars would go to DVD. "It's not a democracy."
So, you get what you get here. Just try not to look at, or listen to, the Ukes.
Cefeida
It is my understanding that criticism is welcome here. Boring, repetitive, trollish criticism that adds nothing to the discussion and which has been done to death in other similar threads? Disemvoweled.
You may want to watch the passive aggressive tone in your posts. You are getting awfully close to filling up a trolling bingo card with things like "And now the civilised conversation turns to mocking the dissenting minority."
PA martyr quotes are part of that slippery slope into trollishness.
Ooh Clarification. I'm not saying that you are trolling, I am saying that you are coming close to presenting as a troll.
Cefeida, there is a culture here. Boing Boing --is-- a culture. I happen to find it very interesting and have found myself adopting some of the group's norms. Part of becoming part of a group is the tendancy to want to defend the group. This is a common enough dynamic and is fairly text-book. Defending a group is something I've been programmed to do. Takuan too, it seems and others.
@ RONINKAKUHITO, Cefeida has been nothing but polite, and has gone significantly out of his/her way to try to explain the unpopular opinion here in a clear and concise manner despite repeated trollish attacks from the majority/popular opinion.
Point of fact - the only reason you consider her "close to presenting as a troll" is because she is presenting an opinion you disagree with, not because her behavior has been poor.
Comments with the same tone defending Cory's frequent reposting about his books are not only allowed, but encouraged. Ergo the problem you have with Cefeida is the content of the posts, not the tone.
has been nothing but polite
It's not a question of politeness. It's a question of pouting and sulking. Suggesting shutting down all comments because she can't do whatever she wants. Announcing that she's leaving, yet continuing to post. Telling us that she's disappointed. If I want to listen to that, I'll adopt a thirteen year old.
Cefeida's replying to posts, Antinous. And I do think there's a lot to be said for polite discussion, rather than making direct personal attacks.
I support him/her. BB has never expressed any policy prohibiting polite discussion regarding what we do and do not like in the content.
Hwvr, rdrs hv tkn t pn thmslvs t bcm hstl twrds nyn wh hs ny crtcsms, n mttr hw sncr nd crflly pt. t sms nfr hw hrsh sm f th rspnss hv bn t Cfd's psts, whch hv smd t hv plsnt tn nd cnstrctv ntntns.
fnd t frstrtng t fl lk w cn nly xprss r pnn hr f t s prs f BB.
a pleasant tone and constructive intentions.
Her posts are sulky and passive aggressive. When other commenters respond to her that way, don't you think that the problem might lie with her attitude? You can express whatever opinion you like on your own blog. Comments were originally shut down due to whiny attacks on the BBers. Now there's enforcement. That's the way it is. I, for one, welcome our new leaping-to-the-defense-of-the-BBers overlords. It's a sign of the health of the community that regular commenters take the time to tell the obnoxious ones to be nicer.
-Doctor Pickles-
Point of fact - the only reason you consider her "close to presenting as a troll" is because she is presenting an opinion you disagree with, not because her behavior has been poor.
Comments with the same tone defending Cory's frequent reposting about his books are not only allowed, but encouraged. Ergo the problem you have with Cefeida is the content of the posts, not the tone.
Well, it is very nice of you to tell me what my reasoning and motives are. I had no idea that was how I came to my conclusions.
Amazingly enough, I thought that my (very mild) criticism of Cefeida's wording was because his/her posts were tending toward passive aggressive undertones, not for the actual content of those posts. Thank you for setting me straight. Admittedly, to come to that conclusion, you have to read against the text of my post, something that I am generally uncomfortable with. I can see where the confusion might come in, as I gave only one example quote, but I'll take this time to point out the general strain of "more in sadness than in anger" that, at least to my eyes, underlies many of Cefeida's posts. Repeated statements that you didn't know that a community had traits x, y, or z, can be quite inflammatory. There was a fair amount of evasive and passive aggressive wording in his or her posts, and that is what I was taking objection to. There are several types of comment trolls out there, the aggressive flamer troll representing only one taxon. Another common type, especially in communities that have a low tolerance for blatant flamers, is the passive aggressive troll. I was merely pointing out that Cefeida was edging close to that particular form of trolling, and something I left out of my earlier post, that tends to undermine his or her arguments. Ergo your analysis of my post is worth a very small pile of a generic aromatic bucolic end product.
Taxon. Heh.
I could be wrong, but I think that the primary thing Cefeida was reacting to was neither the policies and beliefs of the Boingers on criticism, nor the moderation policies, but rather the "community defense mechanism" comments that tend to appear so quickly in threads where a soon-to-be-disemvowelled comment has been discovered.
There are going inevitably going to be people here that violate one aspect or another of the moderation policy, whether maliciously in the face of repeated correction or simply out of ignorance of the way things are done around here, or somewhere in between. Someone who hasn't been here long or doesn't usually read comment threads might genuinely not realize that the, "Not self promotion AGAIN!" comments are such a common trope on BB, or that they curiously always focus on Cory's posts rather than Mark's frequent MAKE and art posts, or the other Boinger's self-links. I'm not saying that's true of either of the early CATFICs in this thread, but I think it is probably true of Cefeida, and I think that her reactions to the anti-troll comments are entirely legitimate and justified.
Obviously there are benefits to community self-policing, and Teresa can't be everywhere at all times, but when three or five people immediately chime in with comments that attack the CATFIC (or other "offender") or point out their foolishness it creates a potentially ugly dynamic. This is especially true when people use ugly language, heavy sarcasm and ridicule, and frequently imply that the offender is clearly not a True Member of the Community because s/he doesn't know/follow the rules.
Most importantly, I really feel that these kinds of comments actually detract from the larger conversation, since things have a tendency to descend into tit-for-tat exchanges, and long-winded explanations and meta-analysis (like this) rather than actually continuing the discussion of the original post. I think the level of discourse here overall would be a lot less contentious, and there would be a lot fewer debates related to moderation issues, if people just clicked the eyeball next a comment they think deserves disemvowellment or deletion, and didn't bother adding their own finger-pointing/ridiculing/scolding post to the thread. Let Teresa (or the army of clones she'll need to handle all the work) deal with it.
Oh, and since I was just pretty much guilty of one version of what I was complaining about . . .
I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on a copy of Little Brother, and then passing it along to as many people as I can convince to read it. It sounds like it'll make a great combo gift with Scott Westerfeld's So Yesterday, a great and entertaining YA book that can really open a kid's eyes to the manipulations of advertising and consumerism.
-Crunchred-
I think that a tendency for threads to spawn digressions and meta-posts probably broadens the appeal of Boingboing for most people. A lot of the value of places like this is that the posts spawn conversations that bring many unrelated things together and spawn new wonderful things.
Also? I think that you are right about Cefeida, and the value of his or her critique of the local community. I think the problem lies with the accessory ideas that came with the critique.
As for the community squashing dissent? It depends on how you present your dissent. I am a relatively infrequent commenter hereabouts and I have occasionally posted things that were critical of something in the main post. In those cases, I've never been shouted down. I have been challenged to support my statements and I have had holes in my reasoning and evidence pointed out. Both of which are totally fair. I really think that it is a matter of the tone of the challenge.
-Antinous-
Glad to be of service. Unfortunately I didn't bookmark the field guide to internet trolls I got that idea from.
if people just clicked the eyeball next a comment they think deserves disemvowelment or deletion, and didn't bother adding their own finger-pointing/ridiculing/scolding post to the thread. Let Teresa (or the army of clones she'll need to handle all the work) deal with it.
I suggest that you put that directly to Teresa. My understanding is that she prefers to have the community be the first line of defense. That way, obnoxious behavior is seen as offensive to the community, not just a breach of arbitrary moderation rules. If one person told me to go to hell, I might think that it's just them. If three people tell me to go to hell and nobody is defending me, I have to consider the notion that it might be me who's the problem.
I'm thinking of trying rude and callous for a while. How does everyone feel about that?
It's your turn to be unpopular. Get on it.
Don't do it Takuan! Think of the children!
@82 I'll see you on the field of honor at dawn.
you know I do not appear in sunlight
How DARE you make jokes about Porphyria! How can you be so rude and callous to those affected by such a horrid disease?
Cefeida, whiny self-pity is unlikely to get you disemvowelled on its own, but that doesn't mean shouldn't correct your tendency to fall into that tone. It occasions a much more serious and far-reaching problem, which is that it's guaranteed to lose you much of the respect, appreciation, and sympathy you might otherwise receive from your readers. This is true no matter where you hang out.
Whining and self-pity produce a far worse impression in prose than they do in face-to-face conversation. One of the things I teach my fiction-writing students is that if they need to kill off a character without upsetting the reader, all they need to do is attach [," (s/he) whined.] to that character's dialogue in one or two places.
I have to assume you've been hanging out in forums where the effects of good and bad manners aren't much discussed, since you early on defended Clockwork on the grounds that "He wasn't even rude, he was just frank." Clockwork was being rude. He may have also been frank, but that's a separate characteristic, and no defense. Rudeness, whether frank or insincere, is still rudeness.
I do have hope for you, since you mention knowing that you should leave off some topic of converseation when you see your friends' eyes glaze over. You may want to give some thought to the problem of not being able to see your readers' eyes when they read your comments. What you perceive as unkindness or repression on their part may be nothing more than their attempt to send a similar message.
I notice you also said "It's still my opinion that criticism is useful and should be welcome regardless of whether the blog is free or not." You're quite wrong about that. The world is full of useless criticism, not to mention boring, repetitive, badly phrased, ill-considered, self-serving, hackneyed, and downright dim criticism. I see no reason to suspend all other judgement just because a comment happens to be critical.
I confess to being mildly irritated when you say things like "Am I posting on a blog where no criticism is allowed?" You must surely be aware that criticism is allowed; you've seen it done. It's the manner of the criticism that may or may not be a problem. If you're unclear on the particulars, please read the moderation guidelines, which you will find linked from the front page.
I don't think you're a troll. I will nevertheless tell you the defining characteristic of trolls, so you can recognize and avoid them. A true hardcore troll is someone who cannot be brought to understand that their social difficulties stem from their behavior, rather than their opinions. I don't know whether it's a learned or innate blindness. I only know that none of them can make that distinction, or understand it when others make it for them.
Whoops, nearly forgot --
Antinous @81 is correct. The community is the first line of defense.
Does that me we are in fact nothing but cannon fodder?
more like lubricant
because no one should have to squeal like a troll?