Honor payment system problems at unmanned produce stands in Japan
Yesterday I posted a photo of an honor payment system at a bookstore in Ojai, California, and a lot of readers shared heart-warming stories about other honor payment systems. Today, I came across this article in the Daily Yomiuri Online about people ripping off unmanned produce stands in Japan. What a bummer.
Link (via Japan Probe)Many of the managers reportedly complain that they make only 80 percent to 90 percent of what they should. However, some of them consider it cheaper than having to hire and pay someone to manage the stalls.
To combat the problem, Toshio Asakawa, a 65-year-old farmer in Asaka, Saitama Prefecture, introduced four vending machines to sell his vegetables.
"Before the introduction of the machines, more than half of my vegetables were stolen every day," Asakawa said.
He had to spend 3 million yen on the machines, but it seems to have paid off as his sales have increased by 50 percent, he said.
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This is on the track over the top of the Blisworth Tunnel on the Grand Union Canal. An Honour System for apples:
http://flickr.com/photos/kenkilfedder/2353697561/in/set-72157601920912837/
Mr Asakawa should read Freakonomics.
Honor payment systems are good hearted ideas, but they do not work in the real world, people like free stuff.
I had heard of a honor payment restaurant, you would order, a member of the wait staff would bring it out, and then you'd pay what you thought it was worth. The restaurant was o&o'ed by a very nice Christian family, well the place went out of business in three months. The reason was that not everybody is a good soul and some wouldn't pay at all. It's a great idea and anyone who wants to try it is a really trying experience.
"Honor payment systems are good hearted ideas, but they do not work in the real world."
May I refer you to the "heart-warming stories about other honor payment systems" referred to above?
"Honor payment systems are good hearted ideas, but they do not work in the real world, people like free stuff."
Huh, somebody better tell the Deewan here in Vienna, which has been operating on a "all you can eat, pay as much as you want" basis for ... dunno, at least a couple of years now? I'm sure they'd appreciate the information.
Only 80 to 90 percent of what they should make? But they're not standing in the stall all day!
I seriously can't think of the last time I saw an honor system in place where I live. Oh yeah, it was for gum at the office, and someone stole it all and the 75 cents in the basket too :(
80% to 90% is great for honor-pay, isn't it? I know actual traditional systems don't usually have that level of compliance, unless he's separating it from other lossage.
In which case it's still pretty good, innit?
I've gathered up a couple of stories about Voluntary Economies in a presentation I've given at barcamp. There's a video of it available here: http://blip.tv/file/574180/
We're currently trying to figure out if voluntary economies can work for the web with https://tipit.to/ - a web service that makes it very easy to accept tips for your website. It's a bit early to tell if it works, though!
Those guys should put up pictures of eyes next to the stalls and in front of the money trays.
There was an interesting article a while back where people were put on an honor system of some sort, but two separate tables were set up, one with a picture of eyes, and another without. People were more truthful at the table with the eyes because they were subconsciously affected by even an image of eyes look at them.
This story hit me as a very sad comment on us as a Human Society.OH well.This will go in my blog today.
Eath
Honor systems work well for produce. They wouldn't work well for iPhones or Toyotas.
This reminds me of a friend of my aunts, who lives in a rural part of the Bruce Peninsula in W. Ontario. She raises chickens, and sells the eggs. If she's out, you just wander into her house, go down to the basement, and get your eggs (and put money in a dish). I suspect that real trust-based ventures might be more successful in a well-knit village community.
I'm just intrigued at the idea of vegetables in vending machines...
I like how it's being framed that they're "only" making 80-90% of their manned sales. That *still* means they make more than they'd make if they paid someone to sit there and watch.
All this means is that humans aren't perfect. No shit. Fortunately, even in a capitalist system humans don't have to be perfect for merchants to get paid. And, given that virtually all businesses *are* manned even though it appears they would make more money if they weren't, humans are more perfect than most people think they are.
And, given that virtually all businesses *are* manned even though it appears they would make more money if they weren't, humans are more perfect than most people think they are.
That statement depends a great deal on the type of people who are doing the shopping, the value of the products, etc. I would expect most fresh vegetable shoppers buying food in rural locations are probably fairly responsible people. (I personally think small towns are more honest because of something called "reputation" - which works better in small groups, but is much weaker in large groups like cities.) Switch your business to a different location with different products, and you will have a very different situation. For example, setting up an "honor system" for buying crack or alcohol in the middle of a city (particularly if it's in a poor neighborhood), and I'd bet you'd get a lot less than 80-90%. All this experiment proves is that the clientele who buy fresh vegetables at that location are fairly honest. In fact, the article itself hints that there is variability in these numbers: it says "they make only 80 percent to 90 percent of what they should", but then later talks about "more than half of my vegetables were stolen every day". So, there is obviously a lot of variability.
Simple solution: CCTV monitoring and micro-RFID tags in the vegetables. If you see someone take a veggie without paying, just key the RFID number into one of Japan's many giant robots with orders to kill anyone who's ingested the tags. It's really surprising that the ministry of agriculture is not in charge of the robots.
The comment above re: Freakonomics is right on: here's a link to the NYT magazine article they used later in the book-
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04E1DA1431F935A35755C0A9629C8B63
The story is about an executive who quit his job to sell bagels - on the honor system.
Simple solution: CCTV monitoring and micro-RFID tags in the vegetables.
Better solution: Residual poison in the vegetables. Get the antidote when you pay.
the absolute best version of an honor system payment story is in Freakanomics, I believe. its the story of a bagel salesman and how his collections went up and down in good/bad markets. it's outstanding. buy the book - but i bet you already have.
You mean those vegetables outside my apartment aren't free??? I thought they were someone's leftovers!!! My GOD!!!
Cashier is an easy, decent way for someone to earn a little money. Anything that gets rid of cashier jobs is bad, whether it's some idealistic experiment, or the self-scanners at a big box store.
I thought the point was that this kind of stuff did not happen in Japan. Anyway that was one of the anecdotes that a lot of people brought back from Japan during the past decade.
So either those reports were overly romanticized or standards in Japan are deteriorating.
@20:
I knew it, I knew it! Was that damn gaijin!
why else is it called an honour system??? so as to rely on people's inate sense of honour...
some people get caught short with no money, but intend to make it up later... some of those forget... some of those actually do make it up later...
and then again, some people never intend to pay... those people have no honour...
I'm reminded of a town (where, I dunno) that had a community supply of bicycles. Anytime you want to go somewhere, you just grab the nearest bike and go.
There were quite a few bikes around. From the reports, they had no problem with theft.
(I don't know how good the bikes were.)
Well, fruit/vegetables at a stand are consumable (and perishable), so there's no sharing or reuse. So my anecdote is a little off subject, but not too far off. Food for thought.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/385136778_8f1c834d50.jpg
Photo of honey sold in the south island of New Zealand via an honor box. No doubt there are lots of reports from this part of the world about this sort of thing.
Whoever says people want stuff for free has never seen a free shop. Fair enouh, most stuff is usually crap, but you literally cant give away stuff in a free shop. Or take how many people feel about scavenging in rubbish.
When people think of free they think of 'free' time shares or cruise trips or in other words somethin to be treated suspiciously.
That said, from working on a farm, people were genuinely surprised if you mentioned that taking from the crops at night was stealing. Despite the fact that they wait until after dark, they would always come off as thinking the crops were there for anybody to take. Which is weird, if you think about it. I mean, I didn't go to their offices at night and steal their paper clips.