Payday Loan scumbags prey on the elderly, illiterate, poor
Small Loans, a predatory lender owned by Money Tree, Inc, gave a $200 "payday loan" to a disabled, elderly, illiterate man and thereafter took in his benefits check for him and paid him a small "allowance" out of it, less the money they deducted as "repayment" on the loan. All told, they took thousands from the man over a period of years, bleeding him so badly that he ended up homeless, begging for power to run the machine that treated his chronic lung infection.
Mr. Bevels, who can't read, says a clerk helped him fill out papers that instructed Social Security to send Mr. Bevels's $565 monthly benefits to an account at an out-of-state bank, which transferred the money back to Small Loans or its parent, usually within a day. As is often the case, Mr. Bevels's bank earned no interest and didn't come with either ATM cards or checks.LinkEvery month for nearly four years, Mr. Bevels, who is known around town as "Buckwheat" because of his thatch of yellow-white hair, rode his motorized mobility scooter to Small Loans to pick up his "allowance," which was sometimes as little as $180 a month, he says.
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That is just wrong. They should make the people who did this serve 1000 hours of community service in a nursing home. That might be enough time to break through the thick coating of asshole they have.
Oh my gosh. What we need is More government regulation (that's what we did in Michigan). Perhaps there should be CC TV in all of these places. And while we're at it, lets outlaw gambling of every kind. No one should be allowed to take advantage of the poor, stupid people of the world. So, that means we better outlaw all religion too. And we shouldn't let poor stupid people eat fast food, because its bad for them.
It's not nice when people are used and hurt. So, what's the answer?
There are loads of these leech lenders in the poorer parts of any town.
In the west where there are many migrant workers, most are afraid to establish bank accounts for various reasons. They depend on these payday loan operations.
The check casher charges huge fees then provide services to 'send cash home', needless to say little of the money makes it to the intended destinations.
The entire system preys on the poor and disenfranchised.
Welcome to America now hand over your cash!
#2 - I know you were being facetious to a point, and I agreed with you for the most part. Your implied point that gambling (i.e., the lottery and Keno) is a "tax" on the poor is well-taken, but there's nobody twisting the poor's collective arm to buy those lottery tickets. Nor is anyone forcing anyone to go to church, eat at McDonald's, etc. There is a choice to commit to these things. Now, once they're "in," there are some pitiful tactics used to keep these people "giving," but they (like Buckwheat in this story) made the initial choice to walk in and get a payday loan/buy the lottery ticket/eat a Big Mac//tithe what little they have to a church.
So, in exchange for a $200 loan, they ended up charging him the equivalent of several thousand percent interest?
What's the answer? Laws on the maximum amount of interest that can be collected on a loan. A fix on the amount that can be collected on a given amount of principle.
And jail time for people who break the laws.
Kuanes, I think the answer is Big Brother, or more Big Brother. Left to its own devices the capitalistic system allows for people to be taken advantage of far too often. The sub-prime loan mess is a good example of what happenes when you de-regulate the banking industry. And I'm not so sure the consummers every saved much because of this de-regulation.
The answer is legislation that prevents scumbags like these from taking advantage of people who have no other choices. Having been homeless myself and being poor this all is hardly any news.
One of the first things that I did when I was finally able to get off the street was to get an regular bank account. It was easy for me, I'm white, but it's harder if you are black. We are a racist country you know.
We have these "UnBanks" here and the rates they charge for simple transactions are astronomical. I didn't have any other choice on the street though. There are also places that will let you "rent" furnishings at exhorbitant rates but you pay through the nose and never really own the furniture. It mat be the only option for some people though.
Illiterate does not equal stupid although it does very often equal being black in America.
Note that the US indeed has usury laws about the maximum rate of interest that could be charged to the public. Why? Because all kinds of institutions used to do this exact same thing to all the poor up through the '30s, and the public finally got disgusted with it. (For those who like old music, listen to some of the "furniture man" songs like 'Cocaine Blues' and understand that this is what they referred to.)
During the early '80s, the "usury" laws got effectively sidelined for banks, and payday lenders worked out how to do some manipulation of the laws on the books against "loan sharks", accompanied with sob-story justifications about how much better the poor people with bad credit would be if only we allowed them to get the loans that the poor sympathetic lenders would only make them at interest rates above 400% per annum.
Well, you'll be pleased to know it worked! Ever since the 1980s, there are no more poor people! Everybody is better off! And they all have ponies!
Wow ! There is a special place reserved in hell for these people.
This is a spectacular case...I mean, The payday loan companies and sleazy as the practice may be does serve a particular demographic of people.
That being said, This particular story elevates it to a criminal level. I find it hard to believe that they actually told this person that they would be stealing a majority of his check.
Donopolis
@7 hits the nail on the head:
"We have these "UnBanks" here and the rates they charge for simple transactions are astronomical. I didn't have any other choice on the street though. There are also places that will let you "rent" furnishings at exhorbitant rates but you pay through the nose and never really own the furniture. It mat be the only option for some people though."
Hmm...so you didn't have any choice...so what would have happened if those placed had been regulated out of business?
Clinton and Schwarzenegger op-ed in WSJ on the problem and possible solutions to the "unbanked" problem here: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120113610711211855.html
And a Federal Reserve study here comparing outcomes in states that allow payday lending vs. those that don't and finds that generally the former is preferable to the latter:
http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/staff_reports/sr309.html
I can't believe there are people at BB who are defending this.
Small Loans
242 W Fort Williams St
Sylacauga, AL 35150
Phone: (256) 245-9333
(aka Predatory Lender)
Talladega County, AL
District Attorney
Steven Giddens DDA
(256) 362-2036
District Attorney
Worthless Check Division
(256) 362-2049
Sheriff's Office
Sheriff Jerry Studdard
(256) 362-2748
Payday loans have their place, and can help people who need them and use them properly. Like anything else, knowing the consequences of your actions is core to personal responsibility. That being said, like anything else there are isolated instances where one side or the other took advantage of the situation. That shouldn't be a call to throw the whole thing away, though. There are individuals who cheat the Social Security administration out of money. I don't think you'd advocate to put that system out of business, would you?
#11 - I'm not defending what occurred to this gentleman, Buckwheat. It was wrong, morally and legally.
The only point I was trying to make, and also what #10 may have been trying to say is that no one forces anyone to take a loan/buy furniture at astronomical interest rates/etc.
These businesses exist for this socioeconomic group, be they gullible or not. How stupid do you have to be to walk into one of these payday loan places and NOT expect to pay back an astronomical amount of interest, plus fees? When people walk into these furniture places Noen referenced, do you think they don't know that they're paying $20 a week for 3 years for a couch that would cost them $600 in "real" money?
Without the business, there would not be the greed accompanying it.
#14 - I guess no one "forces" women to wear short skirts (aka "easy access"), but pointing this out when someone describes what her rapist did to her makes you an asshole, pure and simple.
@2-Jeff: I normally enjoy reading your comments, but your sarcasm contributes nothing to this thread.
But as you point out, the government has long been abusing the poor in the form of state authorized gambling and heavy vice taxes. The govt. doesn't like competition though, so hopefully there'll be some action on this. Unfortunately I highly doubt the banking lobby would allow any material strengthening of the usury laws. :-(
As for this particular scam, I've no doubt these businesses are doing everything possible to pry every last cent they can from these poor people, but let's not forget that these people are also incredibly poor credit risks. If you read all the way through the article, you'll notice they briefly mention the myriad of other loans (which are going unpaid) that Ms. Rumph had. Frankly, these people (the victims) are not going to be the most financially responsible people out there. Then again, I know how difficult it can be to get out of a hole, especially when you have predatory lenders doing their best to keep you in the hole.
The poor can be a very profitable demographic. State Lotteries, rent-to-own stores, extremely high rate credit cards, income tax rebate 'now' places, check cashing places and those structured payment 'now' places. They're all designed to abuse the needy.
On a somewhat related note, Rob Cockerham of cockeyed.com has an interesting series on the proximity of liquor stores to check cashing places. Worth a look if you've got some time.
Check-Cash-Tequila
Or instead of imposing limits on payday lenders, how about just make them illegal?
Because, you know, if I went out and started lending money to people and charging them super high interest to the point where they can't pay, I'd be in jail for loan sharking.
I don't know why these exist in the first place when doing the same exact thing without the storefront and business license will get you tossed in prison under RICO charges.
Hmm...so you didn't have any choice...so what would have happened if those placed had been regulated out of business?
I don't know. What I do know is that my being white opened doors that were closed to others. I still see that every single day. For instance the building I live in has coin-op washing machines and there is a small bank half a block away. So I just go there and buy a roll of quarters even though I don't have an account there. The blacks in my building can't do that. This is liberal Minnesota.
I became homeless for unusual reasons and I was raised middle class, had a decent education and fell on hard times. That isn't how it plays out for most people black or white. For most it is because of drug or alcohol abuse and if you are black that means crack which means a felony which means you are screwed forever. There are a thousand little ways in which discrimination plays out in this country.
Education is another factor. What we see here in Minn is a lot of poor, illiterate, disadvantaged blacks coming up from southern states. That is one of the ways that the southern state are parasitic on the rest of the US. The same way that Cuba dumps their problem people, so do southern racist states dump theirs.
the inability for people to recognize the difference between greed, ignorance, desperation, and weakness is pretty depressing.
Even if you think greedy people should be punished, I don't think weak, ignorant or desparate people ought to be made homeless, starved, or otherwise taken advantage of.
Why so much judgment on the victims, while the people who take advantage of victims apparently aren't to be strongly condemned? Being weak is a choice, but taking advantage of the weak is natural?
and speaking of weakness, desperation and ignorance, those can all be transitory, it's possible to move on or improve from those positions if you are not targeted by a predator and exploited. Giving people a chance to improve their position through some protection (much like most people think a good education and nutrition in childhood isn't coddling but simply necessary) isn't a bad thing.
But heck I wear a strong glasses prescription, i.e. my vision is weak, and in a hunter-gatherer society I probably would have broken a leg and died due to poor vision. would that be a better society? I could be biased but I don't think it would be.. I don't want to live in a society where the weak are considered deserving of exploitation, starvation and death. Even weak people, if given a chance, can contribute to society (as well as sometimes become less weak). I don't get this horror folks seem to hace of someone, somewhere, getting more than they "deserve."
People who are born into wealthy families, with good nutrition and good education don't deserve it either. Neither do people who are born with 20/20 vision. It isn't just a matter of personal responsibility, it's also a matter of social responsibility. What we make of those of us who are disadvantaged in various ways is a measure of our society.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel that badly for him. Learn to read, or get help from someone who isn't out to screw you. There will always be people willing to take advantage of ignorance.
#15 - that's a completely irrelevant analogy. More accurately it would be "no one forces women to BUY short skirts, but don't feel sorry for them when the credit card bill comes."
Yeah c'mon they only stole thousands of dollars from a disabled elderly man who can't read. It's totally his fault for falling for their scheme.
#20- I sincerely hope that you never fall victim to any sort of scam (which this most definitely is) because nary a person should help you using your logic.
Giving people a chance to improve their position through some protection (much like most people think a good education and nutrition in childhood isn't coddling but simply necessary) isn't a bad thing.
This is exactly right. The place that I live at is meant for those coming off the street and it was fought hard by the local community. They believed all the stereotypes. Now they are our biggest supporters. Of course you have to step up too. You have to be clean and sober and working your program. And sometimes people do get asked to leave because they can't maintain their sobriety or for other reasons.
I really don't know what the answer is to payday loans. The ones around here in Minn are not good but nowhere near as bad as in the WSJ article. We have somewhat better laws in place that protect people from such predatory practices.
Eliminate racism. Educate people, there should be no excuse for adult illiteracy in America. Pass legislation to regulate predatory lending. Seems like a plan to me.
What good things come from payday loan companies?
If there are none, why do we allow them to exist?
the police like them as a convenient locus to track the usual suspects. Like pawnshops.
im not going to say the name of the loan company, or the part of the country it is in... but a couple of years ago, in the neighborhood my parents used to live in, a gigantic plot of land next door to their house was purchased by the owner of one of these loan chains. they made SO MUCH money off these loans, that they had bought the land, tore down 2 multimillion dollar houses that were on the land, and were proceeding to build the biggest house i had ever seen in my life. it was as big as a cruise ship. my parents moved as soon as they could.. not wanting to be near such people. but holy crap.. these people were rolling in dough.
Not a payday lender, but still relevant:
I saw a TV ad the other day for Cash Call and could've sworn I saw 99.25% in the quick flash of fine print. I hit their website (name of the company .com) and it really is 99.25% APR! And that's not the highest! In my state, NC, it goes as high as 141.42%!!! Unbelievable.
@25 "What good things come from payday loan companies?
If there are none, why do we allow them to exist?"
They provide money to people who need it right *now* and don't have any other way to obain it.
Look, suppose they're going to turn your power off *today* if you don't pay your overdue, and you don't have the money. As the Fed Reserve study I hinted at above illustrates, turning to a payday lender is not ideal but better than the alternative which is frequently writing checks that bounce. The reality is that frequently fines and fees from banks in many situations are *higher* than the payday lending fees.
Perhaps there should be CC TV in all of these places.
Two months ago, you were arguing (seriously) in favor of having CCTV everywhere. Now you're snarking the idea. New meds?
They should make the people who did this serve 1000 hours of community service in a nursing home.
Or sell tickets to watch the old people beat the assholes to death with their walkers. I'm in.
Brian, I see your point. I am still strongly opposed to the standard debt-trap that payday lending is, though; I think most places end up making multiple loans to the same people just in order to "pay off" the initial loan. Each loan then has a new origination fee, which is most of what is considered "interest" for the purposes of the APR. (Which, here in Ohio, can reach 370%!) I think one answer is to prohibit the use of one loan to pay another off. Perhaps require the places to allow extension of term without fees - maybe with a higher interest rate like 25%?
I just have a hard time believing that most payday loans are for utilities and the like. There's a place near my house that's open 24 hours; what are the chances that their average 2am customer needs to pay an electric bill?
Financial education is sorely lacking in this country. I am witness to many intelligent people making very poor financial decisions - people more highly educated than me. The debt service culture is completely ingrained into our society. These places are a symptom, rather than the cause, but I don't think that symptom should be allowed to go unchecked.
Parasitism may be natural and inevitable, but why is that a reason to condone it? We're supposed to have a society, not just a food chain.
Change the laws, sure, starting with articles such as this one. Volunteer at credit counseling services. That doesn't stop the immediate problem of the sharks claiming everything from the victims they've forced to default. That, needs to be done via class-action lawsuits. Predatory lending is already illegal in some states; there's a good summary of the topic here.
http://www.consumerlaw.org/issues/payday_loans/pay_menu.shtml
There are action groups in various states, and also the Center for Responsible Lending:
http://www.responsiblelending.org/issues/payday/
In the meantime, maybe we can start by organizing pickets of your local loan sharks on the day when their victims come in, if that's still the first of the month. A little TV attention should help warn the victims and get some attention on the need for rate caps, closure of loopholes such as calling a loan a 'service' and applying nothing from payments to the principal, and reporting illegal lending rates.
They're about to start going after tax checks, so now's an auspicious time.
I think about this issue, and I keep finding myself asking the same questions.
These elderly people who are being scammed. Are they mentally capable of making financial decisions for themselves?
If the answer is yes, then as much as I hate to say it, the lenders are ok. If you sell a bad product, and people buy it knowing what it is, then that's the buyer beware.
If the answer is no, then obviously the lenders are not ok. They're basically stealing money from people who don't realize they are being robbed.
I'm leaning towards the latter, but this opens up all sorts of other questions. If these elderly people can't make their own financial decisions, should they even be allowed to have bank accounts and such? Should they be allowed to drive? Should they be allowed to vote or own homes?
As life expectancies increase, the elderly in our society are becoming a rather large elephant in the room. We need to decide as a society how we are going to balance the dignity and freedom of elderly people against a dangerous world they have an ever increasingly difficult time understanding.
We need to decide as a society how we are going to balance the dignity and freedom of elderly people against a dangerous world they have an ever increasingly difficult time understanding.
Also considering most of us are going to be there ourselves someday.
#20 - you scare me. you really do.
It more simple than your "Are they mentally capable" question.
How do we as a society treat the least of us? The poor, the elderly, the illiterate..
What type of society do you want to live in? One that can ignore the fleecing of this man in the name or "just business". Buyer beware. He signed his name, he entered into a mutual business contract, he must have known better.
How is this different than 411 scammers? Or con artists that target the elderly?
Maybe this man had no one who cared for him. Maybe he wasn't able to walk or drive to a bank. Maybe when a Cash N' Go opened up a block from his house he thought it was a legitimate business. Maybe he needed his check cashed and couldn't open a bank account due to DHS or ChoicePoint or CHEX. Maybe we need to ask why there were usury laws since the time of Christ. Maybe there is a reason for questioning money changers.
EDT said, "@2-Jeff: I normally enjoy reading your comments, but your sarcasm contributes nothing to this thread"
Why thank you. But I wasn't being all that sarcastic. At least I don't think so. If we're going to get our panties all bunched up, then we're going to have to figure out why. I say shit like this happens becasue it's allowed to happen. If we don't like it, we can disallow it. That's easy enough. As for those of us who can't read, there are advocacy groups available just for that purpose. At least here in America there are. Do we try to idiot proof the world so no one gets taken advantage of? How in the hell are we going to do that? It's a mean, nasty, uncaring world out there and if someone in this day in age doesn't know enough to figure out the basics, like learning how to read, then I don't know what we're going to do to help them! And I volunteer twice a week to teach inner city in kids and adults how to read! And that's the least of their challenges.
Here in Oregon we recently had some laws passed that capped Payday loan stores. Frankly I don't think they went far enough.
The discouraging thing about debate over these things is that the first stop on the no-clue train is that it's important, first and foremost, to harp on the fact that the debtors always had a choice. They should have known better than to sign on that dotted line.
Do we really know that they had a choice? This economy has created desperate, desperate people. And no matter how much financial smarts you have, these payday lenders will P.R. you into submssion convincing you that they are really providing a service.
And yes, as we have seen, they will go after the not-too-bright and convince them to sign, knowing that they don't know what it is they are signing.
Once we have blame sufficiently pinned on the poor sap who signed (out of desperation, lack of intellect, or whatever), then the payday loan company gets a free pass on pretty much everything else. Embarrassingly usurious loan rates? Hey, ain't no problem, it's the poor sap's fault! If he only wouldn't have signed!
The fact is if you're bellying up to the Payday Loan counter to get some cash, you're out of options. Your out of choices ... or at least it seems that way. How many well-dressed, Prius-driving consumers do you see in the parking lots? Chances are, they came there on the city bus – if they had that much money - or they're driving older used cars (that's pretty much the case around these parts).
The next time you look on the average "check-cashing-store" user, remember, there but for the grace of God goes you. Next thing you know, your lifestyle might not be working out and the only place you can get a lifeline is ... guess where?
I'll bet the lack of available and repayable credit will become real important to you then.
Not sayin' that the story isn't fucked up but most people DO repay their loans on time and we don't hear about 'em cause there's no story there. Not denyin' the existence of predatory bastards out there, but sometimes people do need quick loans for family emergencies, prenatal care and so on. Most people, even if "they is ghetto" don't use these kinds of loans to buy rims or grills. To even get a payday loan you're required to have a job and a checking account.
Life doesn't wait for you to build up your savings before it punches you in the face.
Yes, the rates are a muhfuh, would you rather pay an 5000% interest rate on your bank overdraft? Lemme go borrow some chedda from Mr. Marlo Stanfield, I'm sure he'll provide better service.
-I'm sorry, we don't give loans to you people.
--You people?
-You know, people in your income bracket. People who generally default on loans. People who are considered high risk.
--You greedy capitalistic bastard. You evil, vile sadistic...
**As a politician, I find it it disgusting that you refuse to lend money to poor people in a time of their need.
-OK, fine I'll give you a loan. Can't break your legs, so here's a high interest rate.
---A few years later----
**As a politician, I find it disgusting that you give money to needy people and then charge them high interest rates because they have bad credit. These people aren't deadbeats, they're victims of a system that has failed them.
--FYI, we repaid our loans on time. We have good credit. Don't lump us in with the single deadbeat.
**This poor man couldn't repay his high-interest loan. Obviously the entire system is failing.
-Look, its a risky loan for a risky lender, WTF..
**I don't give a shit, all people are created equal, so give all of your customers the same deal.
-But that means if we raise the deadbeat's interest rate we have to raise everyone's interest rate. What about the people with good credit. Now they might have to default on their loans. WTF....
---A few years later----
- Sorry guys, I can't give you a loan.
--Why not? You gave loans to all our friends a while back...
-The law now requires you to demonstrate that you can pay our highest interest rate for the standard loan. We can't make a profit because we're forced to give low interest rates to everyone in your income bracket.
--So you're not going to give us a loan because we're poor?
- Um..YES.
--Worst. Congress. Ever.
Hi! I'm a predatory lender. I used to be a regular lender, but now I'm being lumped in with the bad ones. I know the feeling. I only care about profit. I love to give bad loans to people even though I know they won't repay them. When they default on the loan, I get to make mad money by confiscating their shitty cars and smelly trailers. I used to lend money on 3 or 4 percent interest to responsible people. I got so desperate, I even gave a loan to a black business owner. It got so bad that once they made good on their payment, I would immediately increase their credit rating just so I could give them a bigger loan. The loans got bigger, the interest rates got lower, and their credit rating kept rising. That's when the good senator found me. He showed me how bad I had been. I was worse than the real criminals, who got away with it. I spent time in jail and then I joined the good senator's cause to cast out all the lenders from our state and now I try to show other people the evils of the free market.
--Meanwhile, back in Nancy Pelosi's Office, the speaker meets with a California realtor----
The free market was cruel to treat you so my friend. The people were too cruel to reject your. Every tax break you desire, every monopoly you could imagine, every inflated price the cursed market denied I will grant. For I am kind. Embrace me as your king and god. Keep my reelection coffers full and your joys will be endless. You will find I am kind. Unlike the cruel market that demanded you stand up to its discipline, I require only that you kneel.
-You did not seriously think the free market could contend with the will of Pelosi? There are none who can. Against the power of federal intervention, there can be no victory. We must join with her. We must join with Pelosi. It would be wise, my friend.
-The government's bailout is not lightly cast aside. One ill turn deserves another. It is over. Embrace government intervention or embrace your own destruction.
The way I see it, all that's happening and will happen is that bad behavior will be rewarded over the people who paid their loans on time. The government doesn't care either way, they want to re inflate their bubble because its en election year. Sorry for the long post dudes, but this whole predatory lenders/high-interest rate thing has me riled.
Every grifter and every con artist believes that it is the mark's fault for falling for the con. That is just part of their psychology. This really shouldn't be so hard to figure out. If I lie to you or deceive you and take advantage of your honesty who is morally at fault here? I am. I am still guilty even if I can hire lawyers who can get me acquitted or if I have been able to lobby a congressman and get legislation enacted in my favor.
Waterboarding is torture
Amway is a pyramid scheme
Loan sharks are scum
Scientology is a cult
These things aren't that hard.
Times like these I remember that usury was considered a sin type thing by several popular desert-mystic religions once upon a time. Not a huge fan of any of those faiths, but some of their principles...became principles for a reason. This is effed up, and the cocky humans who wrote those fading books probably thought of similar things when making that rule.
Usury is theoretically illegal. Certain types of lenders get away with it by claiming that high risk loans (credit cards, payday loans) require them to make a higher profit to offset losses. Or, in real world terms, they own the government.
And, Noen, that was both compassionate and pithy. And you could have used Amway in each of those sentences and it would still work.
#40
"fading books" Ummmm, no. When we count some religions in the billions, they're not exactly having a tough go, regardless of what you wish to happen.
"cocky humans" Ummmm, no. Even if it was true, I had no idea the irreligious were so humble. I should buy Chris Hitchens a drink for his "out-of-the-spotlight" mannerisms.
Let me try a better logical fallacy:
Loan sharks have been around since time immemorial and they will continue to be there so long as people keep using them. (Argument from antiquity) They're found in poor areas probably because poor people keep giving them their business. 'Cause they're completely stupid. Wanna try another stereotype on for size? In fact, when you're officially poor, a chemical activates itself in your brain turning you into a complete idiot. Still, I'll bet more people give their business to a loan shark than they do to amway or scientology, wonder why that is. These shops aren't in "good neighborhoods" because they wouldn't make a profit there. Good neighborhood=good credit.
Its that line from Lord of War: You call me evil, but unfortunately for you, I'm a necessary evil.
Its either that or prepare yourself for a clampin' cause Donbot won't be taking your TV away.
So wait, lets say I sold my house at the peak of the bubble a Philip J. Fry. A year goes by, turns out my house isn't worth shit. Philip J. Fry now owes a lot of money to his lenders. I'm living the good life seeing as how I sold my house at peak price. Obviously, I should be made to suffer along with the lenders too right? I'm that sheeple scumbag who put his house up for sale and like a little eichmann played my part in the dastardly plans of the predatory lender. Why not take some of my money away?
What about the "marks" who hire lawyers and lobby congressman and convince them that they're marks and con their way out of contracts?
Which is why this is not a nation of morals. Laws, yes. Contracts, yes.
How's this for immoral: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/world/europe/21britain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=all
Government can't cover her expensive drugs so she decides to raise the money herself. Government denies her full coverage because she gave herself an unfair advantage by selling her house.
All people are created equal, and if they try to be more equal, we will MAKE them equal.
Surely this is immoral. How dare she try to save her life by being rich? She's conning the system...
Wouldn't it be immoral of these "marks" to not have saved their money or properly invest it for a rainy day?
My caddy-chauffeur tells me a bank is a place where people put money that isn't properly invested.
Who decides what's immoral? A group of people.
Another group of people decide they want to use this service. They decided with their wallets. If it was immoral, they would decide with their wallets.
People go to starbucks, they profit.
People go to mcdonalds, they profit .
People go to payday, people are being conned.
People buy a 1 lakh car, they're hurting the environment. Never mind the rest of us with our cars.
It isn't that easy. There's predators on every level. I defecate on yer morals.
This issue bothers me, so I'm trying to work this out here. There's two sides to this issue.
Any society that values freedom must allow adults freedom to make bad decisions: Getting tattooed while drunk, flipping off a Hell's Angel, eating discount sushi.
OTOH, a responsible society puts fences around the most egregious of those possible decisions: Assembling nuclear warheads in your garage is illegal, as is murdering someone because you hate their iPod playlist.
As a society, we can't protect everyone from every harm, or else we'd all have to live in Matrix-like body tubes.
What the staff of Small Loans did to Mr. Bevels was evil. The usurious interest rates charged by payday loan companies can (but isn't guaranteed to) harm the borrower over the long term, but is more likely if the borrower generates multiple loans.
I see little difference between the type of benefit payday loan stores offer their borrowers and the type of benefit fast-food eateries offer their patrons. Convenience, speed, easy acquisition of cash or food are the benefits both offer.
The negative consequences both can offer are: The beginnings of an unhealthy dependence on a system of easy-to-get production, higher downstream costs (interest repayment; and elevated blood cholesterol, liver fat and sodium levels.) Also, each is an easy, quick, unhealthy answer to a need when a healthy answer exists but is unfashionable or temporarily unreachable. (You're hungry, you've got an appointment in 20 minutes, so a drive-through is the only answer.)
I used a payday loan company once, years ago. I had to buy parts for my car, now, and was two weeks from a paycheck and only had enough money for food. I applied for a bank small loan, but was rejected. The payday loan company provided me a service I needed, when I needed it, and I paid my loan back and haven't had to use that service again. I don't think I was harmed by the experience, but I knew what I was getting into.
Sounds like Mr. Bevels had no one watching out for him, or if he did, he chose not to use their help. We don't know which.
Eliminating payday loan stores, which do some good, because of the evil of some specific people in it, is overreacting. The solution is rewriting usury laws to close the loopholes and giving state and federal regulators and inspectors the power to rectify problems they encounter.
Didn't someone win a Nobel Peace Prize for starting a company which loans small lumps of money for very high interest rates?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcredit
How difficult is it to get a fair-interest, low-limit credit card in the US? Having had at least a savings account since I was 9, this is baffling to me. How do people go their whole lives without a real bank account?
Payday loans were in the news a while ago here in Canada for disguising preposterous interest rates as "service fees". (Basically, a $100 loan would have, say, a $5 service charge--I think it was more, but. If it's due in a month, that's a 60%/a interest rate, which is Canada's legal limit IIRC. If it's due in a week, though, that's 260%/a.)