I Pirate Music t-shirt
Our pals at Gama-Go, creators of the Boing Boing hoodie, have issued this fantastic t-shirt for advertising your pirate pride. The "I Pirate Music" t-shirt, $28, is also available in red.
Link
Our pals at Gama-Go, creators of the Boing Boing hoodie, have issued this fantastic t-shirt for advertising your pirate pride. The "I Pirate Music" t-shirt, $28, is also available in red.
Link
the latest
latest episodes
Now what I'd like (maybe it already exists) is a t-shirt that says "I download music and make copies for my friends", with a giant CC-SA logo.
Conflict of interest, anyone? Advertisers as posts?!?
Take a look at the 'Federated Media' link on the right to see how much Gama-Go is paying for their banner ads. I don't care so much that BoingBoing is making millions in advertising, I only hate when the ads are done in such a thinly-veiled way.
BoingBoing is making millions?!? Wowzas!
And here I was, hoping it was just the words in Helvetica.
Could they do me one with a pirate flag then a 2 then a pirate flag ? or P(irate)2P(irate) ?
@JUSTONEGUY (#10), actually you're quite mistaken. Game-Go didn't pay a dime for their banner ad. We think they make very cool stuff so we gave them a free banner. Editorial coverage on BB is not for sale. Ever.
BB has an old post with a superior T-shirt design; bonus points for mocking an old antipiracy campaign.
David, comment #10 is now comment #2.
A general announcement:
Every time David writes about Gama-Go's work, we get the same remarks about how expensive it is. And every time, David or I explain that these aren't simple silkscreened images. They're multi-pass printing plus applique and/or embroidery and/or whatever else they're doing this time around.
I don't mind explaining something two or three times. I do mind having to explain it anew every time, and seeing no evidence that information has been retained from previous occasions.
If you were saying something smarter than that and got unpublished anyway, drop me a note and say so. I'm not unreasonable, just irritable. Maybe a bit more irritable than usual, even; but I can be argued with.
#8: I know it's grammatically incorrect, but "I delete comments I don't agree with" seems punchier to me.
Rude snipes and uninteresting jabs aren't "opinions .. openly expressed." They are, amazingly enough, rude snipes and uninteresting jabs.
Sorry, Mark; did you want me to save that one? Shall I restore it?
Of course, this makes no sense without its antecedent, but if you make a tee shirt that says:
h, n!
'v bn
dsmvwld!
I'd buy it. At least if it came in human sizes instead of fanboy sizes.
DCulberson: And they're the same ones every time.
Right... you admit to rapid-fire deleting a ton of comments, and then suggest we have to prove the worth of our comments to you? Sure, I'll get right on that, once you decide to argue with us about why you're removing them before hand. We're not unreasonable, just irritable. Why not just turn on approvals for all comments if you're gonna play that game?
TNH, your post is pretty revisionist. There were a number of posts that disagreed with the shirt's message — saying nothing of the price — that were deleted as well.
I find your moderation style to be a bit overzealous. And in saying that, I fully expect this post to eventually be deleted as well.
Pork Musket,
Because some of us play nice.
@Mark: I changed it from that to the grammatically correct post at the last minute. Methinks I should have went with my gut.
Pork Musket, it's not a game.
You are right about one thing: I'm giving you the opportunity to argue the value of your comments.
Ben: I'm sorry you're finding my style overzealous. I regret it whenever anyone feels that way.
I don't find her moderation style to be overzealous. I was put off when one of my posts was deleted - then I thought about it and realized I could have worded it better. No big deal. It's not my house. I still enjoy hanging out here. And the free ice cream is generally to my liking.
Ben, the posts "disagree[ing] with the shirt's message" were probably deleted because of their tone more than their message. Pay attention to how they were worded and you might learn something about communication and how the written word conveys more than the author might intend.
Teresa is a professional editor, by all accounts a good one. (And no, I'm not kissing up, I promise.)
Even with the tone of the message-debating posts being right, they were really off topic. This is a post for a t-shirt that a boinger likes. If a post was regarding a steampunk doodad, it would be the same people complaining that steampunk is overdone and commanding our hosts to "stop posting about it."
The only problem with the whole "Proud to be a Pirate" concept is that it perpetuates the notion that sharing music is the same as stealing. Of course, I'm guilty of it as well, but only because there is really no catchy phrase or character relating to sharing instead of stealing.
I posted a link to an earlier BB post about a pirate-themed T-shirt, said that I thought that it was a better use of the general idea, and posted another link to a Wikipedia article to the antipiracy campaign that the T-shirt was based on. I'd like to petition to have that restored, please.
Ok, so what gives now? I had a politely worded argument about why I thought my comments were valid, and it's been deleted with no response.
Halloween Jack: you're right. That one should have stayed. It's back. Thanks for speaking up.
CDKarp: Yes. HorsePunchKid said much the same at the beginning of the thread. Someone should definitely do a shirt.
And - btw - thanks for the ad, David et al from Boing Boing. Been meaning to say that.
At this juncture I'd like to mention that Chris, Tim, and I are all really big fans of Boing Boing. We've been reading it for years.
We like it so much that each of us has regularly contributed stories, anecdotes and content. Some of which wind up being used.
Point being, we're stoked to help out Boing Boing where we're able. & We're likewise stoked when they help us out. It's a nice thing all around.
As for price & message and whatnot. Hey, it is what it is. We're not trying to gouge our customers.
We price the items where we need to in order to run our company.
Doing so allows us to pay for the goods, pay our employees decent wages (for living in San Francisco no less!), pay for health care and rent, create new products, and expand our business in strange and exciting ways.
It's also important to us to make quality goods that we're proud of. Doing so costs a bit. I believe that when you buy something from GAMA-GO, you'll be receiving an item that meets or exceeds your expectations.
Anyways, price is always one of those things that's hard to have fun conversation about.
We do have online sales every now and again. If you're liking our stuff but think it's too much - sign up for our mailing list so you're notified of the sale.
Thanks all,
Greg Long
Co-founder
GAMA-GO
Pork Musket (22), I believe the logical conclusion would be that it wasn't a convincing argument.
#9 I know it's grammatically incorrect, but "I delete comments I don't agree with" seems punchier to me.
"I delete stupid comments" is punchier still.
@#27:
Perhaps a picture of a cat with the text:
"\I'm in the forum
\\deletin' yer fail"
Santy, others have had that notion:
The hostile version.
The more resigned version.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the right thing to do is to copy this shirt design and sell the pirated shirts for less than GAMA-GO?
MentalHobo, you're not the first, second, or third person to think of that, but none of the previous instances are visible.
Still irritated.
Is their a science to predict which thread will go toxic? Because I find it mystifying.
My comment will probably end up being orphaned, but...
BoingBoing hoodies are labor intensive merchandise. There's applique, embroidery, a lot of work. Work that is performed by people. So to sell that hoodie for $40, those people would have to be seven years old and chained to a sewing machine in a third world country. Now, do you really want that? That hoodie represents what? Maybe 3% of your monthly income? So you want it manufactured by people who spend 100% of their income on survival and still aren't surviving? Save the money that you didn't spend on the hoodie and take a trip to the third world to see how clothes are made and who makes them.
In most threads there's a sensitive dependence on initial conditions, but some subjects are more prone to it than others. For some reason, anything a boinger has liked "too many times" is likely to go wonky.
It's weird. On my own weblog, readers would just say "Oh, that's Teresa posting about [citrus, Middle English, astroturf, knitting, art and privilege, interesting rocks, religion, forum moderation, scams, gardening, WWI, history of material culture, whatever] again." It's no big deal. My co-bloggers have their own recurrent subjects, and nobody has a hissy fit about that, either. But when Cory writes about Steampunk, or David or Mark write about their favorite artists, or any of them write about abuse by security personnel, the thread will be off and running.
Xeni's BB TV posts get less tolerance than any of them. Any subject that gets mentioned twice gets complaints.
We used to have more dustups over posts that were perceived as having a "liberal" orientation, but that's fallen off at a surprising rate since we got rid of just two or three trolls. I think there must have been times there when they were using both hands and both feet to operate all their sockpuppets.
that's why the trick is to be on to the next one while the kvetchers are just twigging to the last.
And you thought I was flighty.
I wonder how much readership demographic matters. It's rather young and male here. Also rather privileged. I'd love to see some more esoteric stats, like how many readers have ever been assaulted, seen a corpse, traveled to the third world.
funny, was thinking similar. I have an inkling as to the degree of my privilege, just the simple fact of the leisure and link. I see myself as sitting on a huge fluffy, pink,satin pillow with cultural bon-bons strewn about. Better fed, better cared for,better schooled (if not educated), better guarded than say 90 if not 99 per`cent of the human race. What an appalling state of affairs.
please, I could hardly be labelled "young"
Miles,
Although definitely overprivileged, as a down-and-out yoga teacher, I do not qualify as a yuppie. If you don't think that experiences change your perspective, get yourself arrested in Cairo or bayoneted in Kathmandu. It'll give you a whole new lease on life.
i realize this is childish, but could i get my previous comment deleted.
WindyBT,
How many times have I asked that question when I sobered up.
#38 antinous, yes on all three. i've been to cincinnati.
Hmmm. My friend who lives there is always telling me that it's the nicest city in Ohio. If you're both right...
@antinous
well i saw that a mod was deleting some in another post earlier and I was wondering if I could just get this one deleted while they were at it
sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me. in jest of course. i found it nice and much like a scale model of philadelphia. the chili joints are the best.
I don't know what her policy is, but if you click the eye to the right, you can communicate with her. And if it helps, I'm 50 and still hoping to be a yuppie some day.
She tried to explain chili without beans, but my mind went strangely blank.
not to mention the spaghetti noodles(vernacular), raw onions and oyster crackers. I was near heaven when a connecting flight brought me to the cincinnati airport (in kentucky)and the food court had a gold star AND a smoking area. bliss
#48 windybt
"well i saw that a mod was deleting"
um, "A MOD" hey man that guff might hold water a those other boards this is boing boing and her name is teresa nielsen hayden. show some respect. jeez
#53 Sonny P Fontaine
I'll do my best to do so from now on. I was brought up on terrible, disrespectful boards and I've yet to learn my manners in the polite civilization that is boing boing. I wasn't sure if perhaps there is more than one moderator so I didn't want to disrespect by pointing a specific one out. Thanks though. And no, i'm not being sarcastic.
alright then. sounds legit. ain't nothin' but a thing. i'm not sure yuppies still exist, as i remember them anyway. and i'd have concern about drawing attention to myself as well. not sure why you'd want the post deleted.
my roommate made it to be a jerk. he doesn't realize i don't mind the yuppie part. I've read that the RIAA makes cases without proof though.
Somehow I don't see BoingBoing turning your information over to the RIAA.
I don't think so either, but for the sake of being safe I didn't think it would hurt. Plus I'm a worry-wart.
Plus I'm a worry-wart.
Welcome home.
looks like the terrorists have won
@ANTINOUS #35,
Its interesting to me that no one objects very much to the idea that there is a cost to making a quality shirt but people object to the idea of the cost of making and distributing music.
I'm part of running a small record label and I engineer & produce for other small labels. We release on vinyl and then to various digital stores in that order. Its a niche genre and vinyl is what our customers say they want. Of course our material ends up on the pirate file sharing networks or the russian MP3 sale sites. I've had people come up to me and tell me how much they like our tunes that they admit they downloaded.
Of course it costs us to build and maintain studio equipment & instruments and bands and singers dont work for free, but somehow people feel entitled to consume the experience of listening to our music without paying. Were someone to copy this same shirt and give em away or sell em for half the price, I'd bet my bottom dollar that the crowd here would be all up in arms like that guy who copied the art of various webcomics artists.
The old "home taping is killing music" was hyperbole, but its not unreasonable to say that piracy networks are killing labels both big and small. Some would say that we shouldnt release physical product, just digital only to save costs, but DJs and lots of fans in our genre still want vinyl. Are we supposed to ignore our customers wishes? Still costs us to make the music in the first place.
Sharing a tune you like with your hand full of best friends results in negligible loss. Putting songs on p2p networks for the whole world, well I can say I've seen the impact for myself.
So #35 wasnt orphaned, but the obvious parallel seems to have been.
Downpressor, if you're recording on vinyl, you're in a portion of the industry where retail price still bears some relationship to manufacturing cost.
As I'm sure you know, when CDs came in the industry raised prices across the board ("expensive new technology," they said, insofar as they explained it at all), then never lowered them. The point at which I saw normal everyday people start to lose their guilt about copying music was when CD burners became common. Suddenly, it was obvious to everyone that burning a CD was not a high-tech industrial-scale process, and even if you bought them retail by the half-dozen, CD blanks were cheap.
We lost a lot of faith in the sacred holy property rights of the music industry.
Now, in your case, you're putting out a specialty item. Not a lot of people buy vinyl anymore. Many of them no longer have the equipment to play it. So here's my question: how many of those downloads you complain of represent lost sales? Would those people have bought the recording in vinyl if they couldn't get it off the net?
Downpressor,
I won't even buy a book from Amazon if I've browsed it at Borders. I recognize that there are physical support costs that allow me to paw through a shelf of books.
RE #59 and #60
Teresa's argument in #60 seems to imply that the only significant COST of producing music is the cost of pressing it on vinyl.
"Cost", however, is not a purely monetary measure. Further, you've lumped your definition of cost on to the back end of the process, and ignored the up-front investment.
This is moot, though: your response to Downpressor is an arrogant one that contends that Downpressor, as a content creator, has no right to decide on his (or her) own terms how he'd like to be compensated for his work.
I hope GAMA-GO's "I (heart) Creative Commons" t-shirt design is still forthcoming.
Downpressor,
Its interesting to me that no one objects very much to the idea that there is a cost to making a quality shirt...
I forgot to mention: My comment was in fact orphaned. Teresa 86ed what seemed like dozens of comments about how the tee shirt isn't worth $28, as well as the comment about the hoodie, to which I was referring. You just happened to come in after the purge.
@Antinous
Thanks for clearing those things up. I misunderstood the use of "orphaned".
@Teresa #60
For me personally, a lost sale is a downloader who keeps the file and listens to it more than once. Might seem too strict, but realistically someone who just listens once and deletes or leaves the file to clutter up their disk, well they did get the experience w/o compensation but got no value, so I cant loose sleep over them. The person who got some value, enjoyed the experience repeatedly but didnt compensate, I'd be happier if they'd paid.
Also I think I made it quite clear that we do make digital product available for those who dont own a turntable. We do make effort to deliver the experience the customer wants and try as best we can to keep the price reasonable.
As a person involved in publishing fiction, I think you know the common factor is that the product of the business is an experience rather than the delivery package.
In any case as Prinzhal pointed out in #62, our back end costs dont go away. The up front setup costs of building a small studio are much smaller today than they were 10 or 20 years ago, but its still not free and we still sometimes have to go rent time at a large studio when we need features or equipment we dont own. Singers & players outside of our in house talent arent free. The time involved (not even counting the time to learn the skills required) isnt "free" and sometimes not freely given (believe it or not, some people really would rather spend time with their family than playing the same horn part over and over until 2AM).
Anyways, good luck to Gama Go and their efforts to sell their product no matter how despicable I find the message of the product to be.