Feds plan digital spying on pigs, llamas, terrorcritters.
Noah Shachtman at Wired's DANGER ROOM blog says:
This is beyond ridiculous. The federal government is now going to track every farm animal across the country, from birth to death, because it wants to watch out for the extremely faint possibility of a bioterrorist attacking the food chain.Snip from LA Times article:
A Bush administration initiative, the National Animal Identification System is meant to provide a modern tool for tracking disease outbreaks within 48 hours, whether natural or the work of a bioterrorist. Most farm animals, even exotic ones such as llamas, will eventually be registered. Information will be kept on every farm, ranch or stable. And databases will record every animal movement from birth to slaughterhouse, including trips to the vet and county fairs. But the system is spawning a grass-roots revolt.Link to DANGER ROOM post.
Image: "Three Pigs," from Xirzon's photostream.
the latest
latest episodes
also good for insane cows and taxing ranchers
Now that we're about to start cloning meat, we won't be able to use DNA tracking. Does that mean that I'm going to bite into an RFID chip in my pork chop?
Don't worry. The animals won't stand for this kind of oppressive, unfair treatment, and they'll stage a successful revolt, led by the pigs.
Of course, after that, things will get pretty bleak for them.
According to the article, there are a few caveats:
1) Pigs are excluded.
2) Agribusiness is excluded.
Somehow that just makes the idea even worse...
Will they be looking out for terriers? What about Bariffs?
"Terrorpig, terrorpig. Does whatever a terrorpig does."
what is the *actual* reason they want to do this?
they can't be that stupid.
It's funny, conspiracy theorists have been shouting about this for years. Come to think of it, they shouted about a lot of the crap thats happening for years... Are they on to something? Or are the Feds milking them for ideas?
Erm... is't there at least some good in this idea?
Part of the reason behind Britain's terrible record on animal diseases (e.g. foot-and-mouth) is that farmers "borrow" livestock from each other, so that they appear to have a larger herd when the dept. of Agriculture inspector comes by to calculate their subsidy. (Farms are subsidised based on the number of cattle.)
With ID chips, this sort of fraud would be much more difficult and thus rarer, thereby reducing the risk of spreading foot-and-mouth disease.
So that's one good thing. Apart from the cost, why is it a bad thing?
If this meant we'd do proper screening for mad-cow disease, that'd be awesome. Sadly the current administration is against that.
"Apart from the cost, why is this a bad thing?"
Well, first and foremost, cost is the number one reason it's a bad idea, so don't dismiss it. Who will pay for this? Will it be subsidized by tax dollars or will farmers pay and then pass on the cost to consumers? Do we really need another reason to make meat more expensive?
2. Who's going to monitor this? Looks like it will be creating more bureaucracy in a system already overrun with it. How and where will this information be stored? Who will have access to it?
3. Why is agribusiness excluded? What would be a more effective terrorist attack, wiping out Farmer Brown's 5000 chickens or on Tyson's 50 million?
4. Why are pigs excluded? Wouldn't it make sense for certain terrorist groups--perhaps terrorist groups who don't eat pork--to attack... um... pork? Good way to filter out the "believers" from the "non-believers." Not to mention that I, personally, want my bacon protected before my chicken. There should be some sort of "taste heirarchy" for which meats get protected first.
5. Do you really want to freak out the Menonites with the "mark of the beast" stuff? They're gentle folk. They didn't ask for this.
This is just stupid. I really can't wait for that idiot to leave office.
No, this is to control the food supply. Look at what the Nazis did to the Ukrainians during WWII and you will see this is an attack on those who want to live off the grid and be self sufficient.the new regulations are very burdensome for small farmers. For instance, the "Premises Identification" part of the plan requires owners to report any movements or visitors of the animals, even in the case of a few chickens and goats. The cost and time for such monitoring is prohibitive and also an invasion of their privacy. when you control the food, you control the people. we need to wake up folks!
http://www.nonais.org
It's really going to hurt the small farmers and make it too expensive to make a living.
One thing is a log for every time the animal leaves the "premises" it has to be logged. The small farmer will be inundated with sticking his nose in a computer log to manage his ten chickens, 2 goats and a pig.
They'll have to buy an ID tag/# for each animal. Corporate AgriBiz will be able to buy them in lots of 100, so the cost is much less for them.
This is meant to really help shut down the family farms and people who rely on themselves to provide food for their table rather than the Nanny state.
Find out more at http://www.nonais.org It's worth a look.
Take for instance, last years meat crisis. It wasn't meat from small farms, but meat from big packing plants, like ConAgra.
You see they import meat from other countries with lax inspection procedures. The meat then gets over here and meat from about 5 countries gets blended together. Combine that with less than ideal equipment sterilization at the plant and you have the makings of thousands or more people getting sick and possibly dying. NAIS won't be able to trace that whatsoever.
of course, to be safe, they will have to chip all the farmers and farm workers. This is the only way to ensure no terrorist infiltration. Any farmer opposing this measure is obviously a traitor. This in no way infringes on farm workers rights since it is for their own safety and does not actually prevent them from moving around. Besides, what need do agricultural workers have to move about in the first place? There is precedent for this is England now with the RFID chipping of prisoners.
This technology, combined with satellite surveillance of herds and crops (already being done) will bring one step closer the American dream of a Safe Society.
Remember there is only true freedom in being Safe!
I doesn't seem to me that the people representing the anti-NAIS side of the table have done their research properly. I know you should take what you read from the government with a grain of salt but the actual website for NAIS, http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml seems to lay things out fairly simply.
The program is voluntary at the Federal level and is free besides what a farmer might incur incidentally, a typical tag costs about $2.50 according to online farm supply retailers. States can mandate participation in the program but have not to my knowledge.
Animal agriculture is the focus, livestock and poultry. I quote from the FAQS "cattle and bison; poultry; swine; sheep; goats; cervids (deer and elk); equines (horses, mules, donkeys, burros); and camelids (llamas and alpacas).
Another blow to their side concerning those who 'wish to live off the grid' is this stretch.
"For example, the following situations are not applicable to NAIS:
* Livestock that never leave the premises of their birth, even if they move from pasture to pasture within that premises, do not need to be identified
* Animals that never leave their premises other than when they "get out"
* Animals that are only moved directly from their birth premises to custom slaughter
* The participation of animals in local trail rides
* The movement of animals to small local parades or fairs (Many local fairs and similar events may have their own animal identification requirements that are not affected by NAIS. You should check with animal health officials or event organizers for any such existing requirements.)"
Seems to me like this initiative is a good idea. I want to know that my food is safe.
first hand stories from Evil, False Americans who don't wish all Americans to be Safe:
http://fullquiverfarm.blogspot.com/
replacing big brother with animal farm?
We already have this in Mud Island, have done for years. all cows have passports & must be recorded every time they are moved from one field to another (EU subsidies are involved somehow). Sheep have 'em too. Dunno about pigs. I have worked in the administrating department. 'Kafkaesque' does not even begin to describe it.
so how does everyone cheat then?
The summaries that Xeni posted are just stupid.
First, this proposal has been around in one form another for years and has nothing to do with terrorism.
Rather, it is designed to allow for tracking down any disease outbreak, such as foot-and-mouth disease, BSE, etc. (Google to see the problems the gov't had tracking the source of that BSE positive calf a few years ago).
If you Just Fucking Google It(TM), you end up at http://animalid.aphis.usda.gov/nais/index.shtml where you get a brief outline of the program which makes it clear that this is to track animal diseases not silly bioterrorism.
Of course an outbreak could be the result of terrorism. There have been animal rights activists who have threatened to expose U.S. livestock to foot-and-mouth...the disease rarely kills animals but ends up costing livestock farmers major $$.
That Wired "Danger Room" post isn't accurate in at least 3 respects:
a) the motivation for this system is not bioterrorism but infectious diseases in livestock, especially bovine spongiform encephalopathy ("mad cow" disease) and avian flu, which pose a risk to human health;
b) agribusiness is not "excluded"; the "exemptions" mentioned might refer to the fact that individual animals in large groups are not required to be individually tagged if they are kept together throughout their lifetimes, which is reasonable if your goal is to identify and control infectious disease outbreaks;
c) swine are definitely included in the program.
At least these are the facts as laid out in the LA Times article, provided in the original post.
Th next time there's a mad cow or avian flu scare, this will seem like a no-brainer, especially given the price premium meat-eaters will pay to have the information that their animal flesh came from "certified disease free" sources...
Australia is only just now getting an outbreak of equine flu that started last August under control - and part of the reason it was so unmanageable was that because records of animal movements were spotty and ill-kept. Cost the racing industry a fuckton of money, and that was just the start of it. So, less with the terrorism, more with the rather sensible disease management stuff?
pestilence or war; same end result: fewer small holders, more agri-business.
all moooot anyway (snicker)
with your Soylent and plankton kibble:
http://www.new-harvest.org/faq.htm
Maybe it's part of the economic stimulus package: it'll stimulate RFID companies?
Yes, in SafeAmerica(tm) you can be an inmate or a guard. Guess which one gets paid?
spazzm : isn't cost a good enough reason? This will be terrible for small farmers who can't afford such extreme measures.
its a bit frustrating to read some of these comments.
nais is obviously a complex issue and its a bit much to delve into depth here.
but before passing judgement one must step back and take note and wonder why there is such a strong grassroots backlash against nais, mainly coming from smaller farmers.
if it is truly a good thing, beneficial for public health reasons why would small farmers be opposed?
especially many small famers and associated groups that more often than not are outspoken advocates of creating healthy sustainable modes of agriculture/food production
theres a wealth of information out there that deserves to be taken into account, articles, books etc
http://www.acresusa.com/magazines/archives/1106NAIS.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Sheep-Story-Behind-Family/dp/1933392096
i encourage folks to talk to local farmers and friends who are involved in the areas nais would address. go to your local farmers market and ask folks their opinion. NAIS is a very important issue among those of us who live in and around livestock/farm animals for a reason
I thought Bush specifically and Republicans generally were against "Big Government", and all the unnecessary spending it involves?
I can understand and appreciate the growing need to track the progression of diseases. Two things don't make sense to me though. The first is why accumulation of tracking data stops once the animal leaves a farm.
This leaves animal transport and processing facilities totally unaccounted for. Unless the animals are strictly segregated, it's entirely possible that it could spread when they are aggregated for transport. If it survives outside the body (like avian flu virus) it can even infect later arrivals.
The other thing that I don't understand is why individual animals in large groups don't need to be individually chipped. If the vector is a particular production run of animal feed, it's a bit tough to determine which one.
Add into that the problem mentioned above and it seems that you've lost most of what this system was supposed to provide.
@Everybody
So if we carry it full force and we chip all the animals and track the food to "be safe", would that get you used to the idea of you being chipped for "safety"? Everything has to start somewhere, and I definitely see starting with animals and inmates. *George Orwell rolls his eyes from beyond*
does anyone really believe that someone intending harm is going to stop just because one avenue is closed to them?
How's your water? Your other daily essentials of life? Hell, If an anthrax epidemic was intended, all it would take is seeding spores in a few kilos of northbound Colombian cocaine.
What kind of wonderchips are these? The ones that are implanted in dogs now, can't be scanned at such a great distance. Are the animals going to be tracked by satellite? Thems is some tricky readers.
It isn't like the chip is going to tell anyone if the animal is dead, alive or sick. And if the animal is dead or sick, this is a fricking rfid, not a diagnostic tool. It won't tell you why the animal is ailing or dead.
I've heard that chipped dogs are prone to tumors around the implant site. Can't back that up just now because I can't for the life of me, remember where I read it.
This just seems silly. Who in heck is going to chip chickens?
@33
in this fashion
http://www.rfidjournal.com/article/view/1835/1/1
Good god, can't I eat a damn cheeseburger without effing HS sticking their nose in it first???
Nein. Stay in view of kamera, bitte.
the antennas are a problem still
http://www.pinktentacle.com/2007/02/hitachi-develops-rfid-powder/
I really hate it when these whacko conspiracy stories survive serious attempts at checking facts.
Like the one above.
Like this one too:
Minot AFB Clandestine Nukes 'Oddities' --By Lori Price,
http://www.legitgov.org
Updated: 19 Sep 2007
The following section was compiled by 'The Pundit.'
Since the Minot story broke a week ago about the missing nukeclandestine operation from Minot, we have the following (for those who are paying attention):
1. All six people listed below are from Minot Airforce base
2. All were directly involved as loaders or as pilots
3. All are now dead
4. All within the last 7 days in 'accidents' [Not all of them --LRP]
http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=10465
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070915/BREAKINGNEWS/70915012
http://www.kxmc.com/News/161562.asp
http://www.kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=140988
http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2007/07/20/news/state/136489.txt
http://www.komotv.com/news/local/9679367.html
I am starting to get really fed up with this stuff being so easy to substantiate and so hard to dismiss as whacko nonsense.
I did _not_ want Heinlein to prove to be a prophet.
http://www.wegrokit.com/ri260s.jpg
If the goal is to prevent transmission of disease from animal to human, this is a backward and band-aid like approach. Why not reform our overcomplex, fundamentally unsafe, national meat and food production system.
I'd guess somebody's got their wires crossed - this sounds more like a disease control measure.
Such a system has been in place in Europe for quite a while. Every time a cow is even moved to another field it's logged. You can go into a supermarket or butchers shop and pick up a steak in the knowledge that the entire life history of that animal is known.
If say, a cow is discovered to have BSE they can easily track down the location of every animal that has ever been in contact with the infected one.
Hopefully animals will be DNA tagged so when you go to the butcher you can see where your meat was born raised and slaughtered and what it was fed and medicated with.
The US has been way behind in tracking animals at least in part because agribusiness isn't interested in drawing attention to problems that exist and generally go unnoticed in the industry.
Anyone who is interested in the quality of their steak should be in favor of getting more information about the animals that provide it.
But if you don't care about what you put in your mouth yeah worry about the cost.
as with terror, food safety requires that not one single indivudal wishes to subvert the system.
All the RFID in the universe does prevent someone who willfully wants to ship BSE contaminated beef.
Ask the Japanese.
http://www.instructables.com/id/RFID-Secure-Wallet/
or really cheap
Interesting article about Feds plan digital spying on pigs, llamas, etc. Thanks for sharing.
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