Canada puts Gitmo on torture watchlist
David sez, "A Canadian Foreign Affairs Department training manual names Guantanamo Bay as a site of possible torture and abuse. Despite this, they're doing nothing to help Omar Khadr, a Canadian held there since 2002."
Link (Thanks, David!)
The U.S. prison camp in Cuba is among several countries listed as potential trouble spots, including Afghanistan, the United States, China, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Mexico and Syria...When asked in the past about Khadr's claims that he had been abused, Foreign Affairs officials have said Canada takes the issue seriously and has received assurances from U.S. officials it wasn't happening...
His lawyers say he has been held in stress positions, thrown into solitary confinement for months on end and used as a human mop to clean up his own urine.
(Image: PDR_4470, a Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike-licensed image from Whomever's Flickr stream)
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Isn't Omar Khadr the guy who they put footage of, on 60 minutes, making landmines and gleefully talking about killing Americans. Isn't his father "proud" of the Khadr's family connections to Bin Laden? I'm not sure why people are still championing this guy's cause ...
What is Wildcardbet talking about?
Redmonkey are you advocating torturing the guy? he was like 15 when they threw him in to gitmo. A Minor.
Good for Canada.
... because he's a human being, was 13 years old when he did anything interesting, and he's being tortured?
Since when has it become OK to torture people as long as RedMonkey doesn't like them?
For Rajio, no, I think you've read that incorrectly into my comment, I don't condone torture and neither does the Canadian gov't as can be seen by adding Gitmo to the watchlist.
The Khadr attorney is trying to get the Canadian gov't to intervene in Khadr case, as the Khadr family has used the Canadian gov't in the past to get their family out of tough situations (Chretian got the dad out of jail in Pakistan). There has been no proven allegation of torture in the Khadr case, and so this is a poor attempt to raise the Khadr profile again, after their last attempt was shot down in leaked video to 60 minutes which showed Khadr making land-mines.
As for him being 15, I'm not sure how that's a defence if a child over the age of 12 does something particulary agregious they are often tried as adults (even in Canada). He was making landmines, and blew up a soldier with a grenade, he's not a citizen of Afghanistan so he is by definition an unlawful combatant. I'm sure there are mis-carriages of justice going on in Gitmo, but this isn't one of them.
#1: I guess you've never been to Vancouver?
As for him being 15, I'm not sure how that's a defence if a child over the age of 12 does something particulary agregious they are often tried as adults (even in Canada)
Not at all so, Redmonkey. Canada uses 16 as the cutoff point, and even that's a recent and controversial change. Until 2003, if you were under 18 it didn't matter what you did. Even now, it's got to be a severe crime.
He was making landmines, and blew up a soldier with a grenade, he's not a citizen of Afghanistan so he is by definition an unlawful combatant
Citizenship has nothing to do with being an unlawful combatant. If it did, quite a few American soldiers would be in trouble, as joining the Army is a way to fast-track a citizenship application in the US -- citizenship you get only after you've completed your term.
Uhhh, it appears there are no remaining correct factual statements in your #5 now.
Redmonkey, if this child did something criminal, he should be tried for it. Kidnapping him to a secret prison where he is subject to torture -- per the Canadian government, torture is practiced at Guantanamo -- and not given a trial is an act of state terrorism. It would give the Framers of the Constitution the fan-tods. The traitors who sanctioned this should be imprisoned.
Hey, that's great. Way to go Canada. To bad this 'watchlist' has no impact on Canadian policy -- still sending Mark Emery down river to that potential torture chamber south of the 49th, eh? Oh yes, you are.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/01/14/bc-marcemerycutsdeal.html?ref=rss
Of course, I shouldn't rag on Canada too bad; the US is the one demanding extradition -- it's just that the US is so unreasonable, I had bigger hopes for Canada.
Khadr is no hero (except to followers of Bin Laden), but I'm not sure how Canada is the bad guy here who has "done nothing".
It's almost certain Khadr is guilty of having either killed or participated in the killing of American soldiers. Yes, he was 13 at the time. But the people whose deaths he caused are still dead.
Canada wants him to stand trial in Canada. The U.S. wants him to be subject to torture in Guantanamo.
What more do you want? For Canada to declare war with the U.S.? That's not how Canadians handle things.
I don't think calling for his release is appropriate. I do however think that he should be given a trial in the United States and punished appropriately if found guilty.
This nothing to do with law, courts and justice. The whole matter is solely about power.
@10: "It's almost certain Khadr is guilty of having either killed or participated in the killing of American soldiers".
I have an epistemological question: How do you know?
Until he gets an public and speedy trial, as guaranteed him by the American Constitution back before it was suspended, there is no way to know what he did or did not do.
It is certain he has been accused of all kinds of things, but the organs of the state have shown themselves to be less than entirely reliable with regard to the accuracy of their accusations, even in cases that have been thoroughly investigated by police before the courts find the suspect innocent.
He doesnt need an American trial. He isn't American. He wasn't in America.
Various comments above all assume that the Canadian government has any power at all over the U.S. government. Look to the Free Trade Agreement, the softwood lumber accord, or perhaps even the Arctic waters disagreements. The Omar Khadr case may not have had enough attention by the Canadian government, but no matter what attention it gets, I don't think Canada would be able to make a difference. To me the issue isn't whether he is guilty, but where he is being held and under what conditions. He needs to be tried as a Canadian citizen. I don't hold out much hope though, having heard a statement recently where the U.S. said that it had the right to grab citizens out of the U.K. with no notice or permission. What chance does Canada have?
@Rajio (#3): “Good for Canada.”
Sorry, but this sounds more like something that got slipped into a document than a policy statement.
Foreign Affairs has an appalling record when it comes to assisting Canadians abroad accused of crimes they may or may not have committed. Look up William Sampson, for example.
The 2nd paragraph under the picture is tellling. Foreign Affairs asks the torturers if they’re abusing detainees, the torturers say “Of course we’re not,” and Foreign Affairs says “Well, we’re satisfied everything’s okay.” God help you if you’re a Canadian abroad caught up in some nasty business, because Foreign Affairs sure won’t.
oh yeah
http://www.maherarar.ca/
And here’ the retraction:
Torture awareness manual 'wrongly' lists Cdn allies, to be rewritten
This retraction is just some more craven ass-kissing by the current Canadian government. They know their days are numbered and can behave as egregiously as they wish. The manual as written reflects what people actually know and believe.