Poker game interrupted by police raid
A Boing Boing reader says: "This a first-person account of a raid that took place at a home poker game on Saturday. About ten officers in riot gear ran in with guns drawn. Afterwards they took the homeowner's 13 year old and put them into child protection services. Apparently an officer went "undercover" for a few months before the raid. The reason for the raid was a $5 food and drinks chip-in, apparently you can't charge any fee, even if you're spending more than that on food and drinks and cards. No one ever contacted the homeowner and warned them not to collect any fee. Anyway, the whole story in the link. It's on a number of other sites too, such as Reason.com"
This account suggests the police hinted to individual players that the hosts may have been cheating or defrauding them, though that's not apparent in the news accounts. Firsthand accounts on poker sites have only good things to say about the hosts. Of course, even if the hosts were cheating, it wouldn't justify a full-on raid, particularly in mid-tournament. The SWAT tactics seem more like intimidation. Raiding in mid-tournament also ensures there's a $1,300 pot to seize for the sheriff department's general fund.Link
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San Fransisco's cops have this kind of time and money on their hands? What!? No city in the United states can afford to piss away tax-payer money like this.
Pkr hs lwys smd smhw dststfl nd mrnc t m. nd crd-plyng n gnrl hs gt t b th bggst wst f tm vr ("Hy, lt's str t lttl pcs f ppr n r hnds, nd t ch thr nd drnk br fr svrl hrs!")
Ths stry s nt tht ntrstng - plc rd crd gm, s wht? Plc rds hppn ll th tm.
It's a special kind of evil that allows one to take a child away from a parent, over an innocuous and consentual poker game. I can only hope some of the bureaucrats involved suffer an equally egregious fate.
On its face it seems to be an inconsequential card game among friends but the one thing that stuck out in my reading of the post was that there were around 100 participants.
That is a good crowd and I kept getting images of a young Henry Hill running drinks as Jimmy Conway passes around franklins.
That is a pretty large operation and I am not supprised that it raised enough police eyebrows to justify an investigation.
Remember the Vice squads have a different mission then the robbery squads. so of course they are going to investigate.
Having played devils advocate, yea I do think it was pretty much a wast to come in full swat gear. where simply walking in like a cop busting up a teenagers kegger would certainly suffice to break up the game.
The SFPD have got to be fucking kidding me -- and everyone else with this.
Apart from the fact that we've got almost daily fatal shootings, apart from the fact that we've got more quality of life crimes than you'd think possible for a city of this size, there is an acute illegal gambling problem in Chinatown that is (sources say) run by the City's organized criminal elements... and these Keystone Kops bust a small-stakes poker game? Well, small in comparison. But if this isn't the vice squad going for the low-hanging fruit, I don't know what is.
On the other hand, our local DA will almost certainly drop or bargain down the charges.
To #2...
Yes, I partially agree. It is rather boring -- to me. But others enjoy it. The point is that stamp collecting is also boring, but I sure would be angry if the police wasted time and money to raid a stamp collector for no good reason. The these really were just guys getting together to play poker and loose $5 per night, good for them.
Back when I was young, I remember when visiting my relatives, my father would stay up all night playing poker with my uncle and cousins. I sure would be pissed if the police felt that they need to raid a nickle-ante poker game.
100 people? Is this a poker game with co-workers or a mini casino here?
How does one have 100 people sit in a game that has 52 cards?
It obviously wasn't simply "a home poker game" as the submitter implies...
To correct myself, apparently this was in San Mateo county, just south of the San Francisco city/county hybrid. So I must retract my scorn for the SFPD in this specific incident; they are apparently still not doing much of anything about everything.
I don't know what I find sadder this event or Camishen's comment that this action was justified because he doesn't like staring at bits of paper. No wonder this country is having so many problems.
I don't think 100 people were ever playing at once. It sounds like it was kind of a poker club where different groups would get together for tourneys. I don't see anything wrong with starting up something like that in your area to find other people who want to play.
@#11:
Then, by your own definition:
It obviously wasn't simply "a home poker game" as the submitter implies...
if you read the article it states that the group consisted of about 100 members, not that they were all present. This looks like a regular league, probably only about 25 people in attendance at any one time running a few tables at a time. The Cops have raided because of the cover that was being paid towards drinks and snacks, not because of the poker or any gambling. They suspected that the organiser who was collecting this cover was making money off it. still completely lame and retarded imo. To be fair theres not a great deal of information to be making any kind of judgement - on face value it's another 'cops are retarded and stupid and are wasting our time and money' story, I'd like to believe there is something dark and sinister lurking behind this that we know nothing of, therefore validating the actions of the SFPD.
not likely tho is it?
Sounds like some kind of Bizarre police state you are living in! I also read about Texas courts and wrongful convictions...huge numbers, 27 years in prison for one guy and then DNA proved him innocent. I love the States but I am becoming leary of connecting flights that land in the US, true it's not rational on my part but I don't understand the logic of a Swat team raid on a poker game.
@#14: "That's some nice trolling there, Lou."
HELLOOOOO!!! Only 20 people there. Not the SFPD, it was the San Mateo County Sheriff. The publicly available website (for ANY hobby/commnity) that we used to manage the calendar and email lists had 100+ friends on it. Only 20 present at this game...which was a typical size game.
Think that's a joke...believe me many Canadians feel this way. MrKnee
@#16:
And most Americans don't really care that much.
when hosting poker games that look potential profitable, do not forget to pay the required squeeze
You may be complacent with regards to State organized repression but I very much doubt that you speak for most Americans...just a few megalomaniacs. And you called me a Troll hahahah.
Come on, give the cops a brake! I'm thinking maybe this is a very small county and the local SWAT team didn't get to use their cool gear all through 2007...
They took pictures of all the players at the tables, all the rooms, the chips, the cards, the dogs - everything.
This was not a home-poker game. There were multiple tables in multple rooms that occur in multiple places several times a month. This is pretty darn close to organized crime.
yep, probably didn't know who to pay off. Too big to ignore , too little to be in the loop
They took pictures of all the players at the tables, all the rooms, the chips, the cards, the dogs - everything.
Ah. But did they take pictures of the dogs playing poker?
Poker or gambling in general is something I could care less about. What's interesting to me is speculating on what would have led to this farcical use of police and court time and resources.
I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the long standing members were policemen who accidentally mentioned the game in front of the wrong guy - at the office.
That person is itching for visibility or sees gambling as "immoral" and things take off from there. Regardless, they should be hung out to dry.
Unfortunately, the city probably won't back down for liability reasons - thus screwing up some reasonably innocent peoples' lives - including a 13 year old.
OMG! Thank heavens for the police!
Now if they could just get around to squashing those Magic the Gathering and Pokemon leagues!!
These dangerous, dangerous criminals need to be locked away for good!
*sigh*
Warren Camishen, you spend your time staring at pixels, alone. Is that better than staring at pieces of paper with friends drinking beer? Should everyone clear their hobbies with you? Card playing is social, and fun. I don't play poker, but enjoy the occasional Rummy or Euchre. Dismissing it as "staring at pieces of paper" is overly simplifying it - like saying chess is "sliding pieces of plastic around."
They photographed everything.. Was is 27 color glossy 8x10 photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one?
Years ago (10 years? Jeez..) I had a party busted because everyone chipped in $8 for refreshments and to pay the DJ -- and there was alcohol. (the key problem was the alcohol + money issue.) Fortunately the cops were a lot more reasonable about it, and just told everyone to go home. There was a lot more than 20 people there, and it was dark, and loud. I can't figure out any reason why the cops would have to go SWAT on that poker game other than thuggery. Especially since they had an informant / insider that would in theory know the likelihood of violence.
let us just hope the judge has a seeing eye dog.
The house probably cut a dollar or two off each hand. You can make alot money hosting a game. In my town a guy was shot and killed at a house run poker game and nobody saw nothing. The potential for violence is very real especially if alcohol is flowing
Ok warren the moron, go do your basket weeving or whatever it is you do and dont bother insulting people for what they like to do. Texas Holdem is very enjoyable to folks who love competition. I was at this game when it was raided and trust me, this was a huge waste of taxpyers money, were just a bunch of friends that like to look at little pieces of paper. Hell 95% of us dont even drink at the games. This could have all been avoided with a simple warning. We actually have a real police officer that works on the sf gang squad that plays with us. she busts real criminals and then enjoys poker now and then herself.
I don't think we have the whole story here. Was the "home team" collecting money from each pot, like professional card rooms?
They had a raid on one of these "home games" in Illinois a few years back. It turns out "Mom and Pop" were clearing something like $200,000/year.
There was no rake. I was there. $5 for drinks, free cash game.
Warren, poker can be a challenging and intelligent game. Trust me, I've seen it done.
If you REALLY want a gambling challenge, horse racing is legal across the country. Get out to your track today!
/Or in the summer, when your track is actually open. :D
//If you must, go to an OTB.
LOL @ people defending violent police tactics for breaking up the consentual playing of a game by adults, regardless of how many people were there, what the stakes were, or whether the organizers were raking the pots or not. Who the eff cares? Why is this worthy of not only being broken up, but being broken up in an overtly trauma-inducing way.
Srsly, is there anything that the state could crackdown on that would cause you to fight back?
It's people like you that allowed the fundies to insert the no internet gambling clause into a bill about terrorism thus depriving me of a hobby (okay not really a hobby, a second job, and not really depriving i still play online every day) because their crazy book may or may not say something about a card game.
I assume this was done under pressure from the local casino/cardrooms that spend money like water to keep their horrible cardrooms open.
The real reason for games like this, is that cardrooms in the bay area are pretty terrible. They charge high fees, have some fairly unreasonable games and are crippled somewhat by some fairly bad laws in their jurisdiction. On top of that (and I'm not trying to say anything racist, just cultural) when you're a non-Asian guy, and half the table is talking in a language you don't understand and the dealers aren't stopping them, you have to wonder if you're getting fleeced on a regular basis by the "locals".
So what's left for the average guy who just wants to play some cards with good players and not have to pay for overpriced drinks (yes, you pay in the Bay, it's not drink all night for free like Vegas) if the places even serve booze. Some don't, liquor licences aren't cheap I guess and casinos are always hurting for cash. (uh?).
In comes the home game! In CA it's not illegal to host a poker game UNLESS the house is taking in money. Yes, this means a $5 for food/drinks/wear and tear on the carpet, WHATEVER charge. So, the guys doing this were dumb for having that, rather than just being gracious hosts and hoping that a few people would chip in on their own free will.
If you ask, it's a payment. If they just leave you 5 bucks on their way out the door, it's not. When it becomes a payment, you're a casino, you're charging a rake (roughly) and you're illegal. That's the fatal mistake. I'm sure there was enough cash pumped into the local law enforcement by the nearby cardrooms that wonder why they don't get a more "expanded" client base on a regular basis, and found out there's a pretty thriving home game scene. No rake, no BS, just some fun playing poker.
Unfortunately, it's clear that the San Mateo police is very receptive to "persuasion" and wants to bust a $5 home game, rather than work on real issues.
Not like the bay area has any..
It was like $50NL for cripe's sake. I'm sure there wasn't any complaint from the card rooms. There's an English only at the tables rule in pretty much any cardroom in the US (the only place where I like an English-only rule actually), if you complain to the boss, they will enforce it.
As an aside, they just legalized poker in Quebec. I wonder if there will be english-only tables, french-only tables and english/french mixed tables.
LOL at #22This was not a home-poker game. There were multiple tables in multple rooms that occur in multiple places several times a month. This is pretty darn close to organized crime.
NOT MULTIPLE TABLES IN MULTIPLE ROOMS! organized, perhaps. crime? please. double-lulz at the fact that the tourney they busted was a FREEROLL. I hear that at the local bowling alley, people play in leagues on MULTIPLE LANES at the same time and the winners get TROPHEYS AND CASH (oh and sometimes people are drinking alcohol while throwing around a dangerous and heavy object).
There are about 15 legal card rooms in the Bay Area. So, obviously the gambling is not the problem. It's that the local government isn't getting any of the nut.
God Bless America!
I'm not quite sure I get why gambling, especialy small risk poker is even illegal. I mean, gambling can be kind of dumb (Especial in casinso since you are going to loose mcuh more than you loose.)
On second thought, Warren, what I should have added is that whenever you see that many people playing a game with every evidence of enjoyment, you should assume there's something fun about it. For instance, I have to believe golf is fun, even though I can't imagine enjoying it enough to make it worthwhile.
The degree of violence in the raid is pretty disturbing. Who am I to criticize the great land of freedom though? It's so much freedom, it just blows my mind.
Todd, many people of other countries can't stand freedom. That's why we have to spread it to them. Whether they like it or not!! We will force you to be free!
glad everyone has an opinion but I WAS AT THE GAME THAT WAS RAIDED and it was just a home game. there were 20 people. 2 tables. each table uses its own deck of cards. it was a friendly home game, we all know each other, we all have played together often. no one was making a profit at all, there were organizational expenses and we agreed to pay for them. the organizer did NOT demand payment, rather, the members of the group suggested and voted unanimously to pay a little extra for drinks and food and other expenses.
the cops knew it was a quiet home game and they burst in with guns drawn, scaring many of us.
the organizer didn't make a profit or keep any of the money. the police, however, timed their raid so that they could keep $1300 of our money. the cops were the ones that stole from us, that held us up at gunpoint. the police, no one else.
My boss was complaining about "the courts getting clogged with frivolous lawsuits", of course referring to the (admittedly silly) lawsuits where someone sues for $100million over a lost pair of pants. But THIS is another thing-- if the police are really concerned about enforcing the law AND not clogging up the court system, they should have just given the guy a warning or citation of some kind, have him pay a fine. Bringing in a swat team, putting him and others behind bars, putting his kids into foster care. . . besides being overkill it clogs up several parts of our bureaucracy.
All I can figure about this is: they wanted to publicize the problem AND they wanted to play with their commando gear. You can publicize the problem just by giving the guy a huge fine-- he'll make a big stink about it and the papers will publicize it (and you can play with your commando gear in the station on slow days.)