UFO in texas pursued by military jets, say witnesses
Four people, including a pilot, saw an unusual UFO in Selden, Texas last Wednesday.
“The ship wasn't really visible and was totally silent, but the lights spanned about a mile long and a half mile wide,” [pilot Steve] Allen said. “The lights went from corner to corner. It was directly above Highway 67 traveling towards Stephenville at a high rate of speed - about 3,000 miles per hour is what I would estimate.”Allen said the lights were not those of a normal aircraft. He said they were more like strobe lights, and while they were all watching, the lights reconfigured themselves from a single horizontal line into two sets of vertical lights.
They also said they saw two military jets ("possibly F16s") chasing after the ship. Link
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Sounds like they were seeing several aircraft flying in formation.
VOGONS!
lets say the people that were seeing it were not mistaken that it wasn't a know craft.
At that point it would seem more likely that it was something experimental. possibly an unmanned craft being escorted.
Observation: Separate lights spanning about a mile by half mile wide that reconfigure themselves.
Conclusion: A single, giant, invisible ship that can change shape.
I wonder if Mr. Allen believes in the bearded sky man as well? That requires the same quality of reasoning.
I think what I found most distressing about this article, is that it was on the front page of both the Globe and Mail, and CNN; I mean its a UFO story with no supportable evidence other than a bunch of hicks claiming they saw it. How in this day and age does a UFO go by with dozens of people claiming to see it, but NO ONE has a camcorder or a camera? This isn't 1960 anymore, 1 in every 3 persons has some kind of visual recording mechanism on their person at all times, i.e. your cell phone. I call SLOW NEWS DAY.
I want to believe.
I don't know what to think of any of this any more. Every UFO claim I've looked into is either blurry lights in the sky or a hoax. Someone is f*cking with us, I blame the military.
Most people just need to believe in something outside the ordinary.
Those who don't have enough imagination to create their own beliefs or don't have faith in an established religion, seek the popular mythology of the day for explaining things at the limit of our comprehension.
"Conclusion: A single, giant, invisible ship that can change shape."
Not quite, a pilot with 30 years experience said: "The lights went from corner to corner" and his wife said "Lights were going up and down the side". So there is the notion that the lights were moving as in a marquee. I suppose they could have been aerial platforms flying in formation but how many of those can outrun an F-16?
Well, it's easy for those of us who didn't see the UFO to dismiss it (and YES it WAS a UFO by definition: an Unidentified Flying Object-- that does not make it an alien space ship, the two are not necessarily synonyms.)
I might be willing to just dismiss it all too, except several of the witnesses have flight experience, so should know what they are talking about.
I recall a bigfoot sighting in Vermont a few years ago, a Vermonter witnessed a huge humanlike hairy creature walking along the road in a remote area, then crashing off through the woods. Some locals insist he saw a moose. Now . . .you're telling me that a man who has lived in Vermont for many years doesn't know what a moose looks like? Have you ever seen a horse and mistaken it for a cow? And yet you want us to believe this guy mistook an "ape" for a moose?
As for the UFO-- no explanation I've heard for this sighting fulfills all the things people saw. Those who insist it was several aircraft flying in formation still can't explain the air speed-- what civilian has jet aircraft that can fly that speed? AND fly in several perfect formations at that speed?
The smarter you are, the more you realize you don't know.
"There are more things in heaven and on earth than dreamed of in your philosophy."
It's a good thing they posted one of the witnesses phone number in the article. He probably wants calls from every crackpot alien chaser.
I know I would.
This guy is a pilot and therefore claims he can estimate that it was going 3000 mph - but how many times has he (or ANYONE) seen something going 3000 mph? And how exactly do you estimate a flying object's speed without knowing how big it actually is, how far away it is, and having no landmarks it the sky against which the motion can be timed?
If it was really going 3000 mph, there's no way F16's would have any chance of keeping up, and if they were going all out they would be going close to Mach 2 and making huge sonic booms, which it doesn't sound like they were. So how could the F16's even be close to it in the first place?
Selden, TX isn't that far from Crawford (about 60 miles, short distance for an airplane), where Bush's ranch is. Maybe they saw some airplanes and helicopters flying security in the area or something, misjudged the distance and therefore misjudged the speed and size.
Hmmm, lights in the sky right over a highway, where there are dozens of powerful headlights moving around. With the right slope, they'd shine on low clouds or fog. As the car/truck turns in a curve or goes over a hill, the lights move at incredible speeds, just like the laser pointer dot that you use to entertain your cat.
Enough idle speculation. Go build a UFO for yourself, the parts are available at your local hardware store.
Here's a very good explanation for what people saw (summary: there's an Air Force base nearby, they fly a lot in the area and release flares as part of training).
http://jimr75.blogspot.com/2008/01/stephenville-ufo-hardly.html
>Selden, TX isn't that far from Crawford (about 60 miles, short distance for an airplane), where Bush's ranch is.
"Take me to your leader..."
Bwahahahaha....
re: #5: SLOW NEWS DAY
This is quite literally a case of "LOOK! Something Shiny", which works on 3 year olds, and sadly, also on registered voters.
If we have learned anything - there is no such thing as a SLOW NEWS DAY. I would pay close attention to what it being under-reported / bumped off the front page instead.
This sort of thing (the promotion to the front page) doesn't happen by accident.
Oh Jeez, I told those guys to turn --OFF-- the party lights before picking us up. Sometime the ship's AI likes to screw around just for laughs. Naughty ship!
IWood: "I wonder if Mr. Allen believes in the bearded sky man as well? That requires the same quality of reasoning."
Whether the gentlemen in question are reliable witnesses or not, this is probably the worst example of atheistic non-sequitor threadjacking I've seen in ages.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done, young man.
For the love of God, think of the cows!
This is obviously a hardware test related to the development of Project Bluebeam.
Re Danegeld @2: Shhh.. Nothing to see here, move along.
from the CNN article:
"Sorrells said he has seen the object several times. He said he watched it through his rifle's telescopic lens and described it as very large and without seams, nuts or bolts."
Dude, next time shoot it! If you're close enough to see that it has no seams, nuts or bolts, then shoot that sucker down. Think of the phat lootz!
You shoot down a Gin-you-wine UFO and heck, they'll tear down Moolah to make room for it in the town square! Stephenville could become the new Marfa. Except with more dairy.
Why is it that UFO sightings happen over desert roads in Texas, New Mexico or Nevada? Why doesn't it happen over New York, LA, London etc? Is it that people who live out in the lonely stretches of the American Southwest have a raised sense of awareness compared to the rest of us?
Sorry I have to think there is some other explanation.
If it was flying at 3000 miles per hour there woulds be no witnesses because the thing would be moving so fast it would be gone in the blink of an eye, Go stand next to the highway try to give me descriptions of cars zooming past you at 70mph. Also as anyone who lives in Florida can tell you something fling that fast overhead makes a lot of noise. When the space shuttle lands the sonic booms literally shake my house to the foundation, the first time i ever heard a sonic boom I ran out because i thought a car had crashed into my house.
I think military flares is the best explanation yet. Though I would think a pilot would know the difference.
since we as a species know absolutely everything about our atmosphere it can't be anything atmospheric.
and since we know all about technical advances by all world governments it can't be some secret project.
and because there are billions of galaxies it stands to reason, due to lack of evidence, that our planet is the only one that can support life.
/
i say it was swamp gas released by a weather balloon.
ill lich @12: I might be willing to just dismiss it all too, except several of the witnesses have flight experience, so should know what they are talking about.
Fallacy: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-authority.html
It was light out (6:15 pm) but a mile long ship "wasn't really visible".
The lights "were not those of a normal aircraft" but like "strobe lights". Yet, lots of planes mount strobe lights.
He's been flying for 20 years but can't positively ID an F-16 by silhouette? It's pretty distinctive.
It was moving at 3000 miles per hour, but it was being chased by planes whose top speed is half that?
Etc., etc.
Sure...knock off any one or two observations, but there's just a preponderance of "does not add up" here.
Why is it that UFO sightings happen over desert roads in Texas, New Mexico or Nevada? Why doesn't it happen over New York, LA, London etc?
The last I heard, the thinking behind the lights in Marfa is that they are reflections off clouds (or highly reflective soil along a curve) by headlights on a highway a fairly looong way off.
If it was flying at 3000 miles per hour there woulds be no witnesses because the thing would be moving so fast it would be gone in the blink of an eye, Go stand next to the highway try to give me descriptions of cars zooming past you at 70mph. Also as anyone who lives in Florida can tell you something fling that fast overhead makes a lot of noise. When the space shuttle lands the sonic booms literally shake my house to the foundation, the first time i ever heard a sonic boom I ran out because i thought a car had crashed into my house.
Chrome Albion @24:
I think experimental aircraft testing and training by the Air Force is a much better explanation.
Let me join the chorus heaping scorn on this report.
3000 mph? That's nearly Mach 4, double of what the F-16 fighter jet is capable of with afterburners.
The human sensory apparatus is not a reliable judge of size, distance, or velocity - especially at the scales we are talking about here. Furthermore, the human visual system has several well-known bugs that further reduces reliability.
To sum up:
Pix or it didn't happen.
I don't think flying for 20 years makes him particularly noteworthy as a witness. I've been driving for 15 and I don't know what make most cars are on sight, or think I'm better than a non driver at identifying objects on the ground.
Also, if you can only see lights, you can judge neither distance nor speed. People see a light in the sky fade out and conclude it travelled away at tremendous speed. They see two lights travelling and assume it's massive and far away, when it might be close and small. The human brain is good at filling in detail, even when the detail is not there to be filled.
I'm going with the flares explaination, which is also consistent with the well-documented "Phoenix lights".
@ Chrome Albion: actually, I live in NYC and I've observed what I would characterize as UFOs on two occasions, both while standing on rooftops. Couldn't tell you exactly [i]what[/i] they were; just mysterious objects in the sky that didn't correspond in appearance or behavior to the usual aircraft one sees over the city all the time(helicopters, airplanes of all sizes, illuminated ad blimps, searchlights playing on the clouds, etc.).
I kind of suspect frequency of sightings has more to do with how much sky is visible to potential observers; I'm sure an attentive and patient plains-dweller would see all kinds of funny stuff happening up there, as opposed to a city rat who, on the rare occasions when one takes one's gaze up off the sidewalk and immediate surroundings, sees mostly buildings. I wonder if that isn't why the stereotypical flyboy/astronaut always seems to be the midwestern farm-bred type; all that big sky up there must inculcate a sort of calling in 'em.
It says something about these people that they thought they saw something a mile and a half long in the sky.
The descriptions are terrible. No comment of the orientation, no mention of sky conditions (the only way to estimate the altitude of an unknown object is relative to cloud formations of approximately known altitude), no mention of distance from observer (the only way to estimate size of an unknown object is if you know how far away it is)...
Basically, the report says, "We saw something! And it was big! And it was fast!"
The addition of numerical claims like "one mile by a half mile" reduces the plausibility of the report, because it calls into question the basic competency of the witness (in fairness, this may be due to the reporting rather than the witness.
the X-43 perhaps?
Viral marketing for the new X-Files flick.
Santa's Knee (6), I think that touches the heart of the matter.
...
If it's that big, it should show up on satellite.
...
There are more things in heaven and earth than there are almost anywhere else.
ah, you forget the alien stealth technology,AND the
moles they have in NASA. Just ask my friend Dale Gribble.
I giggle a bit when I imagine the ear-to-ear told-you-so grin on Dennis Kucinich's face in the off chance that there are aliens, and they decide to make some sort of irrefutable public appearance in the near future.
The notion that We are sharing a multi-verse instead of a uni-verse takes some getting used to. We humans might not be the only game in matter town. It helps to become multidimensional in perception. Gives a better grounding to normal.
Steve Allen's a talented comedian but I don't know if he knows anything about guessing velocities.
@DMCK;
bingo on the sensible explanation re: why is it always a dumb hick that sees these things and not a sophisticated urbanite such as moi?
I grew up in VT but live in NYC, and I can tell you that I've seen way more odd things in the sky in VT than I ever do in NYC because:
A: In NYC there's a lot more going on at street level after dark than there is out in the countryside.
B: when you do look up in NYC, it's much harder to see the sky, because of all the lights.
A flying saucer could park itself over my building and go trout fishing,and neither I nor my neighbors would notice.
Now the claim is "dozens" of your so-called "hicks" saw this thing. "It was very intense bright lights ... and they spanned a wide area," said one woman. That sounds like a pretty honest observation. So rather than just make fun of these people, what do you think they saw? Is there something the military isn't telling us? If it was just a practice run, flying in formation, why not just say so? Or was it a large transport craft flown at night to avoid detection?
There have been too many of these sightings over the years to dismiss as a bunch of stupid "hicks" mistaking an airplane for a giant craft. Also there are plenty of documents uncovered through FOIA requests that show the military has encountered some pretty weird stuff over the years. I like how the article says the Air Force doesn't investigate UFO sightings any more. Probably because they know what they are.
@ moderator: What you you mean "show up on satellite"? Do you mean satellite weather photos? Spy satellite? Or actually on a satellite, hanging there yelling "wooohoo!" as his buddy takes a shot of him goofing off for the folks back home. :)
Weather or spy, Kaiser.
By the way, you're asking people to hypothesize way beyond the data. What can we do from here? My godfather figured out years later what really happened to Betty and Barney Hill, but it took being there onsite to do it.
Modest Proposal for Flying Saucer Fanatics Who Live in the Middle of Nowhere: Digital Video Camera with a fisheye lens, on your roof, filming at all times. Then, when you see crazy sith, you've got your proof.
Even better: Two cameras, side-by-side, so that when you catch your crazy sith, you can accurately judge its distance.
Even better: You and all of your crazy friends, creating a network of roof-mounted cameras that cover a significant portion of the Southwest United States or other UFO-frequented locales.
Best: You and all of your crazy friends sending your footage through an algorithm that watches for anomalies and dumps the rest, so even if none of your crazy friends are watching the skies at any given time, you can still find the aliens or top-secret-aircraft or what-have-you without having to sort through gazillions of hours of footage.
Throw it all up on a website, sell some t-shirts, and you're good to go: Your very own close-range, grass-roots, crazy SOB version of SETI.
And done!
Tony Lux
I tend to conclude that most UFOs are most likely military aircraft of a most secret nature. For one, most American UFO sightings occur in deserted areas of the southwest, where testing of military aircraft is historically done. Also, in this day and age, it is quite difficult to imagine what exactly the likes of Lockheed and Boeing may have zooming around the skies.
For example, the SR-71 became operational in 1966. It was stealthy, high-flying, and capable of speeds of at least Mach 3. Rifle bullets travel approximately Mach 3. Also flying in the 1960's? The propeller driven A-1 Skyraider. An aircraft that had performance figures like the SR-71 was inconceivable to most people in the 1960s. What they might be flying now may be equally inconceivable. A lot of UFO spotters say that what they saw did things no aircraft could ever do. What they mean is that they saw something that did maneuvers no aircraft that they know of could ever do.
I still think it's flares and here's the link to the Betty Hill debunking on Making Light, it's very good.
Still, I am uncomfortable making fun of people simply because they saw something that was so outside their experience they could not sleep. A lot of people seem to have those experiences, even seasoned observers like a pilot who would presumably have seen it all. He saw something that shook him to his core. The others in his party were less affected but that is because they (or one of them) have seen UFOs before. Something extraordinary happened and whatever it was flew over their heads faster than anything known.
Interesting how even with all the laughter this topic gets close to 50 comments.
I try, but don't always succeed, to order things in my mind by probability so I think it was flares, then maybe a top secret craft and way at the bottom something alien. But either way I don't like how secret our gov is and I get the feeling that they do things to mess with society. I don't like that at all.
# 49 - i like yr post
i'd really like someone to explain -calmly - why lights (fast, big, etc) are an impossibility in the atmosphere of the planet we live on..
a planet in a solar system in a galaxy in 'our' local cluster, etc..
&
why do people read 'flyer saucer' when someone writes ufo ?
that's a mystery.
so when people speak authoritavely why something can or cannot be in this, our kinda big universe, i think they are fools.
i like the idea of our planet and its systems surprizing us in their capabilities.
i like the FACT that we know less than we think about the universe / reality / etc.
#48 - who gave the military such a wonderful boost in aerial tech ? those damned greys, thats who !
if aliens are visiting us and they are such assholes that they can't openly say hello - screw 'em.
"The group plans to return to Odom's house and keep an eye on the sky in the near future, hoping to see it again"
I just asked myself, what is a group of grown up men doing staring at the sky at night? I have only one explanation: Mushrooms.
Kaiser @49
"I" don't know what they "saw" but "I" like to "think" that no matter how "many" people saw "it" that there is an "explanation" that doesn't "involve" things like "fundamental laws of physics being undermined" (e.g. faster than light travel) or "grand conspiracy theories spanning decades" (like the government could keep that big a secret that long). Now, "maybe" that's the case and in our "profound ignorance" we live in a "Stargate" world, but as a "betting man" I'm not going to put that as my "first choice", or for that matter, tenth.
@53 Leave some double-quotes for the rest of us, sheesh.
If I saw a strange craft with F-16's accompanying it, I wouldn't immediately assume the F-16's were chasing it. Why couldn't they be escorting it? And, if it was hard to see, why would it have to be a mile long and not (as previously mentioned) a collection of more realistically sized aircraft that spanned a mile?
Human perception is very interesting. The depths to which something "shakes" you don't help demonstrate how unusual the thing is, but only how serious your reaction to it is. Stage magic can convince someone you've swallowed razor blades - unusual lighting on a collection of aircraft could easily pass as a single mile-long craft - especially at dusk.
Being a pilot just means he's got a driver's license for the sky. It doesn't mean he's some sort of expert on everything aerial. (Flying a Cessna does not an alien craft expert make.)
I like to think there's intelligent life online, I still don't have proof yet.
I understand most people's skepticism, especially without the scientific proof.
I would also assume that OUR VERY OWN existence is proof enough that there is intelligent life in the Universe.
I suppose I'm 'crazy' or a 'dumb hick' though.
WILMUTH:
I seen a kinda greenish streak and then zingo! Something smacked the ground. Knocked me clear outta my chair!
PHILLIPS:
Well, were you frightened, Mr. Wilmuth?
WILMUTH:
Well, I-I ain't quite sure. I reckon I-I was kinda riled.
Scroll down to the 3rd story here. This is unedited video of something very similar seen by 2 very excited young women on a highway in California.
http://www.openmindsforum.com/
I've been hearing the "experimental military craft" explanation my whole life. Our military is not presently capable of building or even funding such a project, and I'm quite sure some evidence of its development would be impossible to keep hidden from over half a century of prying eyes. Maybe during the cold war era, but certainly not now.
Can't we just admit that we DON'T know what it was, but it could at least possibly not be man-made? Given the circumstances, it is no less naive for one to assume that everything that is not clearly understood about our universe can be dismissed as a secret military project --as if that isn't disturbing enough!
I've been eating food for 20 years and I can positively say that what my wife made for dinner last night was "not from around these parts".
I wonder what Britney Spears is doing.
I just heard NPR do a rather long bit on this UFO thang in TX. Sounds like a lot of rational people saw something odd. They saw something that the Government is saying Wasn't there. Maybe it was a ship from the future! Yeah, that's it! The Enterprise (NCC-1701)!
I would also assume that OUR VERY OWN existence is proof enough that there is intelligent life in the Universe.
Well, yeah, but why does that immediately lead to:
a) they came here
b) they have nigh on magical technology that them to travel faster than light in violation of everything we understand about the universe.
c) they have the technology to mount and survive a multi generational expedition across interstellar space.
d) all of the above.
I'm perfectly comfortable with there being other civilizations. Hell, I bet there are billions of them. I'm just unwilling to declare Earth science and engineering null and void on the fantasy that they dropped by for a visit without some pretty serious proof.
Our military is not presently capable of building or even funding such a project,
You're kidding, right? I didn't see a smiley.
but it could at least possibly not be man-made?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Given the circumstances, it is no less naive for one to assume that everything that is not clearly understood about our universe can be dismissed as a secret military project
Given: Strange sighting of a poorly defined but definitely odd object.
Pick one:
1) Military project. Doesn't even have to be secret. People report their first sighting of an F-117 in flight as a UFO all the time.
2) It's a super-advanced alien civilization with technology that obsoletes our understanding of science that has managed to keep positive proof of their existence under wraps for decades if not centuries. Probably required the cooperation of all governments on earth.
3) Viewer is a crank: http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=2618004
I don't know which one I pick first, but I know which one I pick last.
The truth is out there.
Only the arrogance and ignorance of human beings leads us to believe we are the only significant species in this universe......maybe we could`nt handle the truth...or the possibilty of it....we would`nt be in control...................
#19:
"IWood: 'I wonder if Mr. Allen believes in the bearded sky man as well? That requires the same quality of reasoning.'
Whether the gentlemen in question are reliable witnesses or not, this is probably the worst example of atheistic non-sequitor threadjacking I've seen in ages."
You might want to get out more. The common thread is the drawing of overly complicated certainties from simplistic and vague observations. Extraordinary claim, extraordinary proof, etc.
Zag said, "Only the arrogance and ignorance of human beings leads us to believe we are the only significant species in this universe....."
Maybe... Zag, do you think your logic based on the facts or maybe some wishful thinking? Do you have any evidence to suggest that there is life anywhere else in the Universe? You know, we might be the only ones here. How? Do the math, it's quite possible that life is so unlikely to evolve to our level of intelligence that it's only happened once, on a trillion worlds it may have happened just here. Now wouldn't that make us special?
Right on Jeff, I've always been skeptical of the barometer for "higher intelligence" basically being set at "just like us, with better toys". There's plenty of intelligent life right here on earth that doesn't use our sort of technology to get by, and we barely recognize it well enough to prevent ourselves from killing and consuming it. Anyway, humans as a species have been around for such an infinitesimally short period of time that I'd say the jury is still out whether "our" brand of intelligence is a viable enough evolutionary model to last long enough to reach the Star Trek physics-defying level. Or whether two such similar species would, by some fluke, emerge at more or less precisely the same moment at different points in the universe for them to actually encounter one another. Anyway, what's so wrong with admitting that we really don't have a fucking clue what these things are? (Although in this case, I'm still going with anti-missile flares used in routine training of fighter pilots. And folklore like "Mothman Prophecies" and "Communion" is still a lot of fun.)
I was observing the sky in Stephenville at the time of the supposed sightings.
I saw two normal looking airplanes. My theory is that other people had an angle where they could see the sun reflecting off airplanes.
The military us covering up what really happened over Stephenville, Texas. On that night, NORAD confirmed an unidentified object in that airspace and top military officials quickly ordered 2 F-16's to follow the aircraft and wait upon orders for any change in the situation. Later that night/morning, President Bush was briefed of the bizarre incident and since then top military and CIA officials have been on high alert for unidentified flying objects over US airspace. True story.
well i would make a bet that the F16`s were Escorting a new AIRCRAFT ie maybe a new SKUNK WORKS PROJECT? remmeber how the F117A Fighter was shown to the world? it was a crash of one of them near the state of CA.Then 10 days later they came out with the B2 bomber. this is just my guess?? and it may be a good one at that!
Anybody remember the TV show the X FILES?
The guy who was the star of the show was out in the field near a test site and saw a new type Aircraft landing behind the fence. And was caught and was brain wash before they let him go!
Seriously... aliens or not. you can't deny the fact that we aren't the only intelligent beings in existence. whether or not people want to believe it, there are others out there. i've never seen a ufo or an alien, but i doubt seriously that if they had the technology to travel to different planets, that they would bother to even look our way. they would most likely look for a race as advanced or more advanced than they are, in a pursuit of knowledge. i know most people probably have there own standing point on this topic, everyone does, but i find that pondering on all sides of a problem is the best way to find a solution or explanation. while the concept of ufo's and aliens is an interesting one, until there is SOLID proof of there existence, it will only be another puzzle for our minds to solve.
- a 17 year old who's thinking way too much