US terrorist watchlist "galloping toward the million mark"
The USA Today reports that the US anti-terror watchlist has grown to more than 755,000 people, growing at a rate of more than 200,000 people per year. As Slashdot notes, "Adding about 548 people daily every day of the year does not seem to lend itself to a manual process with careful deliberation given or double checking being done for each person added."
"They are quickly galloping towards the million mark — a mark of real distinction because the list is already cumbersome and is approaching absolutely useless," said Tim Sparapani of the American Civil Liberties Union.Link
the latest
latest episodes
we should flood the list, everyone express your severe satisfaction with the U.S. government, talk about how the president is a terrorist, and make inquires about buying smoke detectors and fertilizers in bulk.
Let me know how that works out for you. I don't fancy giving them that much permission.
USA, spreading fear around the globe to justify murder!
I'm not sure you take my meaning...
I just made the mistake of reading several pages of comments on the USA Today story. Makes me want to vomit seeing the way anything other than being a "good German" gets pegged for being anti-American/pro-terrorist, or being a "moonbat."
That there are so many people in this country who live their lives so afraid of the outside world that they cannot build walls high enough, locks strong enough, laws tough enough, lists long enough, to keep the danger out; truly makes me mourn our former selves.
It reminds me of something Jon Savage wrote in "England's Dreaming." Something along the lines of hurting yourself much quicker and much worse than another person could simply so that other person could not.
A meatspace DDoS on this list is fully in order.
"You cloned a million terrorists???"
http://flea.sourceforge.net/PiglegToo_4.html
let's argue about how 'fascism' is the wrong word
Wow, a million potential terrorists. Who knew? Thank Ghu our leaders are so vigilant in protecting our freedom.
I was flying to NYC last week and tried to check in online. I wasn't able to and when I got to the airport, I was told I was o the government watch list. I'll admit that I am an outspoken citizen to our current administration, but have never published anything like that. I ask how I got there, and they said, well someone with your name was probably put on the list, so now anyone with that name is also on the list. A quick google search turned up with 2 million hits with my name. Going through security I get pulled out searched, bomb wiped down, and my traveling partner as well. On the way home, same story. I asked how to get removed from the list, and I was told there is no way. Thanks to the ridiculous of our current system, I will never be able to check in online for a flight again. I am really glad they are doing their job well, and keeping terrorists like me from electronically checking in.
Hilarious. When the list reaches 51% of the population, is it flipped over and everyone else goes on? After all, America is a democracy...
Would Timothy McVeigh have been on the list? Doubt it. What's more I seriously doubt the the terrorists will be coming though any border checkpoint, and it's not going to be a nuclear bomb in a briefcase.
This administration has only listened to expert advice that suits it's political ambitions, and for the most part that has been fear-mongering and no real action. We are left vulnerable on many fronts.
That the money-bloated Department of Homeland Security should produce such excesses should come as no surprise. More poor management.
Its even more funny when people with DoD ties are on the list... really, they are i know first hand *sigh*
So... how many people could conceivably feature on the list? About 2bn people subsist on less than $2 per day, and realistically they're not going to appear. I'm not an expert (at all) on terrorist income levels, but I believe a fair number come from relatively affluent backgrounds (and I would have thought that those potentially flying would certainly tend to).
Let's use (rather rashly) the average annual income in Iran ($5326) or Pakistan ($1884) as a baseline. (These two countries chosen because they've been in the news a lot recently.) According to the Global Rich List, there are 859m (Iran) or 1.16bn (Pakistan) people with an annual income level at least that high. This means that just under 1 in every 1000 people who could conceivably be on the watch list is actually on the watch list. I realise the logic here is somewhat shakey, and the stats may be too, but still that's kinda scary.
PS From Slashdot re. the list:
I think the really scary part is that with us being the superpower, and apparently hated worldwide, there may be no one to save us when things get "obviously" ridiculous. Could we save ourselves? Maybe, but I guess it'll take more than being told where you can and cannot go to piss people off.
"Would Timothy McVeigh have been on the list? Doubt it."
More importantly, the 19 terrorists who brought down 4 planes on 9-11 would likely not have been on the list.
(Unless the list now includes Saudi citizens with no prior records and carrying valid visas issued by the U.S. State Dept. Which it may.)
"Fascism" is _exactly_ the word for making a list of imaginary enemies, based entirely on their church - uh, mosque - attendance records.
The other implication is that they're making a complete botch of protecting us from actual terrorists.
Putting someone on the no-fly list isn't the first thing you do when you suspect them, because it tells them you suspect them. It's counterproductive. Putting them on the list is what you should do if you think there's substantial reason to believe they represent a clear danger to the public safety, only they haven't yet done anything that warrants arrest.
If the Bushies have got a million people on that list, there's no way they can possibly be keeping track of them, much less secondary and lesser suspects. Aside from the gross inconvenience to people whose names are on the list, it's the equivalent of not keeping track at all.
This is a perfect case of CYA security. I believe Schnieder did an article on it. There are people on the watch list who are currently dead and in prison - but they will never be removed. Why? Because if Suzie Johnson is removed from the watch list, and some terrorist uses Suzie Johnson's name to commit an act of terrorism, the person who removed that name will be publicly crucified.
Meanwhile, innocent people are being inconvenienced and wrongly targeted. Frankly, I'm not going to fly if I can't help it for Thanksgiving and Christmas this year (and probably next) - not because I'm scared of terrorism, but because I'm pissed at what flying now entails.
You're all just saying these things because you're educated. If you had just done the right thing and stayed out of school none of this would be necessary. Ignorance is bliss, and I know one country that could stand to use a LOT more bliss.
gosh! i hope colbert can do something about this !
How do names get on the list? Do they use informers? If you want to flood the list just inform on people with common names. If you know a John Smith, grass him up! Jane Brown, ditto. That should double the size of the list overnight.
The whole point of a list like this isn't to keep anyone safe nor is it to catch or deter terrorists. In a police state the point of repression IS repression. There is no other justification.
Eventually, every single person will have to choose which side they are on. Hiding will not save you. Trying to rationalize it away will not save you. Going along and trying to live your life as usual will not save you. Sooner or later you will have to choose.
I think the watchlist is a brilliant idea.
I'm going to start making lists of my own on things that I've decided are vaguely dangerous enough to take random precautions with, yet not dangerous enough to actually learn why I've decided they're dangerous.
1. Refrigerator door. I've read of kids getting killed by these before somehow. I'm going to start opening mine carefully, with tongs just to be safe.
2. Bathtub. I read some statistic about these! I'm only going in with gloves and wrist guards from now on.
3. Toaster. Heard some horror story about a kid, not sure what he did but it was deadly! To keep safe here, I'm going to wear steel-toed boots and a helmet.
Clay@23 -- hilarious!
"the list is already cumbersome and is approaching absolutely useless"
Bullshit. The list is incredibly useful as a tool of social control. What did Mr. ACLU think it was for?
They should switch to a "whitelist" of people who are definitely not terrorists. The list may be shorter.
Lt s knw whn y'r n th lst. t's tkng drdflly lng tm fr thm t pck p n yr cslss sbvrsn.
hey, at least when they get to 6.6 billion they'll be done, and the guy making the list will put his own name on "just to be safe."