Public radio station in NYC won't air "Howl" for fear of the FCC
Link, Link to Ginsberg reading Howl at the Internet Archive, Link to reproduction of the Howl manuscript on Amazon (via JWZ)"Why, 50 years later after a judge ruled that children could read this poem, people are afraid the courts will say that their ears shouldn't hear it," said Ron Collins, a constitutional law instructor and First Amendment advocate who is leading a small group of authors, broadcasters and free-speech advocates pushing to broadcast the poem eventually. "Yet they can go on the Internet and see far, far worse things."
Another irony: WBAI, the Pacifica Foundation station in New York that plans to post "Howl" online, is the same station that took on the FCC more than 30 years ago over the right to air George Carlin's comedy routine featuring the "seven dirty words." The challenge led to a 1978 Supreme Court decision governing what naughty words can be broadcast and when.
Pacifica's attorney for FCC issues, John Crigler, thinks airing "Howl" would be "a great test case" in the current environment. But he understands why WBAI won't broadcast "Howl," even between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m., the hours the FCC has cordoned off for rougher language.
WBAI program director Bernard White fears that the FCC will fine the station $325,000 for every one of Ginsberg's dirty-word bombs. If each Pacifica station that aired the poem - and possibly repeated it - were to be fined for airing "Howl," it could mean millions of dollars in fines.
the latest
latest episodes
Amazing that no one will air it now, because I remember listening to it over the air on a Boston station on it's last anniversary in 1997. I guess that's progress on the part of the current government.
lln Gnsbrgs 'wrk' s s bd ts ffns tht w stll tlk bt hm. n ddtn R.Klly hs mr rspct fr hs jlbt lvrs th Gnsbrg.
If you've any doubts about Ginsberg, listen to him reading America here. One of the best poetry recordings I've ever heard.
"to label pedophilia as criminal is ridiculous...NAMBLA's a forum for reform of those laws on youthful sexuality which members deem oppressive, a discussion society"Ginsberg 1996
Like the Klan and al-Qaeda are forums for reform discussion.
What does that have to do with whether Howl should or shouldn't be read on public radio?
How can you condemn jihadists (who attempt to suppress the work of people who offend their morality) and defend the suppression of Ginsberg's work?
Why does the forum remove vowels from posts so often it seems to happen to someone everyday?
I had never heard about this poem before reading this post. Now, I've not only heard of the poem, but I've heard the poem itself, and I learned more about the Beat Generation and Allen Ginsberg as a result. I will now go and share this with others. Suck on that FCC!
I really don't think children should read Ginsberg.
Dybbuk, I removed the vowels from your post because it was a childish ad-hominem, presented without argument, and invited flames instead of debate. I left the vowels in your subsequent post because it presented some argument in support of your position.
This is a means by which we, the people who provide the forum in which this dinner party conversation takes place, signal to you, our dinner guests, what behavior is and is not tolerable in our home. If you don't like it, there are many other dinner parties on the Internet, and you are welcome to dine at any of them.
One comment, based on Carlin's "7 dirty words" decision, Howl really is a clear-cut case, there is a nice F-bomb in it:
who let themselves be fucked in the ass by saintly
motorcyclists, and screamed with joy,
and
Dreams! adorations! illuminations! religions! the whole
boatload of sensitive bullshit!
Moloch in whom I sit lonely! Moloch in whom I dream
Angels! Crazy in Moloch! Cocksucker in
Moloch! Lacklove and manless in Moloch!
Under all previous FCC precident, thats a huge fine per station per occurance for the F-bomb, not to mention the other in the 7-dirty-words. Multiply it across the entire Pacifica network and you are looking at a pretty penny for a public radio network.
A pretty penny which they would probably LOSE. The standard for public airwaves is very different from print in all the court precident. Resurrecting/revisiting the 7 dirty words decision would be a very tough one, even for such a case of obvious literature like Howl.
If they bleeped the F-bomb, the FCC would ignore it, because it would be a case the FCC would probably lose.
Cory no problem i understand, this is your ball and you can take it and go home. It was just something i noticed and didnt understand why.
I thought my comments were funny.
If Ted Haggards behavior was relevant to his work then so is Ginsbergs. I have never advocated for the "the suppression of Ginsberg's work". Its would be much more radical to use the work of a contemporary artist to push free speech issues. Not some 50 yearold poem. But if old works is what you are after why dont we broadcast a reading of the Marquis de Sade's Juliette.
Yet i do find it hypocritical for the left (and i am a known Red)to use the behavior of Jeff Gannon and Ted Haggard as a cudgel to smash their work while making excuses for the the likes of Ginsberg.
But much more importantly why do we even care about broadcast media and the FCC. They are going the way of 8track....
PS it made me laugh that in a forum about censorship i was....
Oh no! Not swear words! It'll be breasts next.
As bombs go, the F-bomb is a pretty fuckin' harmless one; I'm surprised that people can even muster sufficient hypocrisy to pretend otherwise.
No Dybbuk, you are not funny, you're a troll. What was really funny was Cory "dis-emvoweling" you. That was just brilliant.
What most worries me about recent discussions of free speech is the emphasis on obscenity and not on the right to express dissent publicly. Yes, it is alarming that WBAI cannot broadcast "Howl" after 10 p.m., but television's "South Park" is addressing the obscenity issue brilliantly -- and with a good bit of humor as well.
But it is terrifying that an antiwar organization cannot question the veracity of a politically appointed military leader without being censured by Congress. Such a curtailment is a true test of the basis for the First Amendment, yet it hardly drew a whimper from those who want the right to say "fuck" on television.
DYYBUK,
Ted Haggard's work was all about condemning homosexuality; therefore, he's a hypocrite. His work suffers because his actions conflict with what he preaches. Ginsberg loved boys and wrote poems about loving boys. No conflict of interest there. He also wrote poems about social change and lived a life in tandem with what he wanted to bring about.
Okkoto
you are spot on and i agree with your assessment of Haggard and Ginsberg's life and work. but i was talking people who will defend Ginsberg while condemning people like R.Kelly. Yet in my mind just having "No conflict of interest" isnt enough to give an advocate of NAMBLA respect.
Whistlingfish
i think you are going in the right direction. your south Park example clearly illustrates why the FCC is becoming irrelevant. Because South Park is on cable and not broadcast is why they were not fined for their 'fuck, fuck, fuck' episode a few years back.
Folks, some perspective on this for those making this an FCC argument. You need to add the fact that WBAI is a disaster and a mess for years and has routinely screwed things up like crazy. In short, they give away 9-11 conspiracy books/CDs/DVDs that have been proven wrong as an incentive for people to join with no other options offered. Station management is rife with cronyism and corruption. And while they shy away from this Howl broadcast citing FCC fears they have no problems airing outright racists, anti-Semites, misogynists and black nationalists who are frighteningly anti-white.
I still listen to them when the occasional sane show is on the air. But that's 1 time out of 10. 9 times out of 10 is just a nasty, badly run radio station that barely has any connection to it's wonderful past anymore. WBAI program director Bernard White has helped destroy a treasure.
If station management were competent, they'd broadcast Howl without issue and take on any battle. Nowadays it's a pathetic mess; yeah I said that before but I need to make that clear.
@ Whistlingfish
From what I understand, censorship and censureship are not the same. Congress is free to pass a resolution condemning anything and anything they want (except apparently GWB :\ ) and I don't believe that it involves the First Amendment. Bad judgement and pointless infighting, maybe, but that's another discussion.
and @ Dybbuk:
"PS it made me laugh that in a forum about censorship i was...."
Good thing you didn't say censored, because you weren't. I can still understand what you were spouting in #2, it just took some effort. That's the beauty of disemvoweling.
You have plainly been pointing out Haggard and Kelly both. You might have even had a point with Kelly, but you chose to troll instead of discuss. Please take your ball and go home. Nobody but you is laughing.
Jack, it's not so much a matter of WBAI station management as it is about the right-wing Supreme Court. Anybody would pick up the challenge over the censorship of this important work, but the likelihood of prevailing over the high court once the case made it up there is pretty small. We've been let down by congress in their confirmation of enough dingbat neocon judges to keep America moving safely backward for the next twenty or thirty years. Nice work, people.
Dave
Support the troops fighting for democracy in the USA.
The most ridiculous censorship I've seen recently is the British Comedy "Only Fools and Horses" which has been on my local PBS station. I thought there was an audio problem until I realized that the word or syllable "arse" (ass) was being blanked out, usually as part of smartass or tightass, to avoid sensitive American ears after 10 pm.
The show never has language worse than that so the thought of someone wasting time and presumably donors' money going through it to remove those words is a little hard to take.
Ross
@Ross
yet several years ago PBS aired 'Tongues Untied' which IIRC dropped "fuck" and "nigger" quite a bit.
I also recall other recent PBS programs airing "fuck" casually like it was HBO; I actually didn't even notice until someone else pointed it out to me.
maybe the source tapes were pre-censored?
@Blackandy
Yes, censoring and censuring are two entirely different animals, but I'm still concerned that motions like that on the part of Congress -- besides being a waste of time -- soften understanding of political free speech and leave the impression, especially among those who *don't* understand the difference between being censored and censured the impression that criticizing the military is wrong.
When individuals are turned away from public gatherings for wearing "I love the people of Iraq" buttons, or refused entry into public campaign rallies for wearing "Troops home now" tee-shirts, when dissent is herded from presidential speeches into "free speech zones" out of the public eye, dissent is marginalized.
Again, to press the point, while I am opposed to censoring speech, I am more concerned with protecting dissent -- which is the reason the First Amendment exists. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I honestly believe when we focus on the reading of naughty words in "Howl" while glossing over the Congressional censure of MoveOn or the creation of political "free speech zones" we are playing right into the hands of those who want to silence public criticism of government and eliminate dissent.
Dybbuk's joke misfired, and consequently lost its vowels. Full disclosure: some of Dybbuk's jokes are funny.
I continue to think he's wrong about the relevance of Ginsberg's personal behavior in this case.
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Chowderhead, I'm not saying you're wrong. But if WBAI had half a brain and competent management they'd be on more of an equal level with NPR and PRI stations and thus would be able to gain more support and awareness for their fight. Including highlighting the hypocrisy of this whole Howl mess.
The same station that won't take a chance with language issues in a classic poem has no problems giving voices to anti-Semites and hate mongers. They're choosing to spend their energy supporting that garbage and turning away like cowards from real battles. No respect for them.
Now WBAI are just a pathetic organization and I can't support them anymore.
If sexual orthodoxy were the measure of poets, we'd hail Alfred Noyes and Anne Bradstreet as transcendent geniuses, fret over whether Emily Dickinson's and Thomas Traherne's unknown proclivities ought to bar them from the canon, and be no slower to condemn A. E. Housman and Walt Whitman than Allen Ginsberg.
Since we do none of those things, I believe this discussion can dispense with any further homophobic denunciations of Allen Ginsberg. Furthermore, if you think his sexuality is the most important fact about him, you've either got a tin ear for modern poetry, or you need to take a closer look at your own orientation.
You are a wise and generous host. I am posting this despite the fact that the last joke may be on me due the age of the post no one will read it. If Mel Gibson's antisemitism, Michael Jacksons @^&*#$%,Tom Cruise's Scientology and Rush Limbaugh's drug addiction are fair game. then someone like Ginsberg who made his personal political and poetic is to be judged by that . After all Ginsberg did not pick the route of J.D. Salinger or Robert De Niro who keep the personal very personal. I wonder what Kathy Acker would have to say about a childs ability to consent to sex with an adult? Ginsberg like Elia Kazan & Ronald Reagan bet on the wrong horse. The LBGT community needs less Ginsberg's and more Dan Savages, John Waters, Buck Angles and Tammy Baldwins.
Full Discloser: I dont find all my jokes funny either
PS: only bottom feeders are caught by Trolling but at least i believe in catch and release