Torontoist blog improves Toronto Transit Commission's rider survey

David sez, "Toronto's Transit Commission (TTC) created a survey to get feedback about potential cuts to the system. Unfortunately, their own survey sucked, so Torontoist has created a new one which we're trying to get as widely-distributed as possible." Link (Thanks, David!)

[#1 posted by phasor3000 , August 29, 2007 5:19 PM]

Some of the survey results are interesting:

What do you feel are the best ways for the TTC to deal with the funding gap?

83% Get additional funding from the Provincial government

80% Get additional funding from the Federal government

78% Have the City of Toronto raise taxes

38% Raise fares

i.e. it's somehow magically cheaper to pay for something via tax increases (in the first two cases, that's ultimately tax revenues too) than by paying higher fares directly? Was the demographic of people who took the modified survey skewed towards people who pay little or no taxes, perhaps?

[#2 posted by Anonymous , August 29, 2007 6:28 PM]

Fares, like consumption taxes (GST, PST), have the greatest impact on lower income people. I don't understand, therefore, why the previous poster seems to think this is both surprising and worthy of comment.

In addition, an increase in the fare also represents a "barrier to use". Even a little research (ask the TTC, they'll provide the numbers) will show that each increase in the fare was immediately followed by a measurable decline in ridership which took a long time to recover.

The issue is much more complex than the previous comment suggests, too, since we are talking about using taxes to provide a social good where the benefits (lowered pollution is an example) are enjoyed by all (even those who don't use the TTC and, by definition, don't pay at the farebox). From that it follows that it is not unreasonable to expect that all who benefit should also pay the costs of supporting the infrastructure that provides the benefit.

[#3 posted by Michael Burton , August 29, 2007 8:03 PM]

I dunno, Phasor...

Raising fares might discourage ridership, and push people to other forms of transportation that pollute more and contribute to congestion of already crowded highways. It might make it harder for some low-wage employees to get to their jobs. It might marginally discourage people from getting a quick ride to go shopping.

78% of survey respondents sound willing to raise their own taxes (assuming respondents are from Toronto). It doesn't sound like the "free ride" mentality that has prevailed in the U.S. ever since Ronald Reagan's assault on taxes.

Maybe mass transit benefits not only the people who ride it, but those who don't, as well?

[#4 posted by Anonymous , August 29, 2007 9:19 PM]

As an employee of Env. Canada, I have to take the 105 Dufferin North every day. I can't believe it's on the chopping block!

[#5 posted by David Topping , August 29, 2007 9:55 PM]

Thanks Boing Boing for linking to this!

I should point out that the survey just went live some six hours ago, and that Boing Boing's article popped up shortly after that. I hope that, with time, as this spreads (to the mainstream media and so on and so forth), we'll get a wider and more diverse sample of people than our readership and Torontonian Boing Boingers. Some 400 people have filled it out so far. Not bad for 6 hours on a Wednesday night, but I hope that that explodes over the next week and a half before we submit the data to the TTC.

[#6 posted by Anonymous , August 30, 2007 8:19 AM]

As far as I can tell, there exists no one in Toronto who might use the TTC and pays "little or no" taxes except children and the homeless. There's almost no question that a small, general tax increase across a larger population would generate more money than any fare increase, which would only shrink the pool of possible funds. Any fare increase only raise access barriers to those who need the service the most -- the poor. It's not democratic.

[#7 posted by Anonymous , August 31, 2007 1:37 PM]

I don't get it. A few weeks ago, the city was promoting expansion of the TTC and new streetcars. Now, they want to cut service and routes.